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"Why Not Every Person Can Be a Salesperson"

by Jason Kanigan
19 replies
Check out Dave Kurlan's blog entry today. He describes why not everyone can be a salesperson.

Click here to read it

Reasons #1 and 2 are a real kick in the teeth.

Low money tolerance (thinking $500 is a lot of money) and desperate need to be liked by prospects are killers of sales. The salesperson is afraid to ask for the money. The salesperson doesn't want to upset the prospect, so they refuse to ask the uncomfortable question that would really delve into the heart of the problem. The salesperson gives away tons of free stuff (demos, mockups, samples etc.) in effort to make the prospect like them.

"EEEERRRRRP!"

I want you to notice something about these top 2 reasons. They are NOT technical issues. They have nothing to do with the sales process, script, or fancy method. These reasons are CONCEPTUAL...what the person believes about themselves. Selling is a conceptual, not a technical, process.

Raising your money tolerance and discovering that you're not here to invite your prospects over for dinner and turn them into your best friends are not things you are going to change overnight. It's an ongoing process. Be aware of your current state for these two self-concept items--money tolerance and need for approval--and continue working on them. They're not the sort of thing you're going to suddenly change at a seminar. But they are vitally important.
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    The money tolerance things is one of the biggest shocks to me when I read threads on this board. I grew up on welfare and don't have anywhere near the issues with money tolerance that people here do.

    There is such a rush to be cheapest that you would think some would realize competing on price in that kind of environment makes no sense. Price could give you a competitive advantage but to paraphrase Grant Cardone, "I don't want a Competitive Advantage I want an Unfair Advantage". To dominate you have to do what others are not willing to do. And here that seems to be to ask for real money.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      I kinda use the things I see here as a gauge. If people are dealing with money issues here, then most of the people competing in my market probably are dealing with it also.

      As a rule, I want 20% of my "no sale" appointments to be strictly because of price. That means I am priced correctly.

      When a prospect says "Well, so-and-so says they are going to do it cheaper" I am glad. If the prospect is evaluating the situation strictly on price, they are often flaky, controlling clients.

      I also know that I did a poor job building value if price is their only measuring stick. I try my hardest to leave behind the people who are fighting over a few hundred dollars at the bottom of the ladder.

      That's the thing about ladders...they are only crowded at the bottom and there is always plenty of room at the top.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        As a rule, I want 20% of my "no sale" appointments to be strictly because of price. That means I am priced correctly.
        Love this idea.

        There is a similar train of thought in dealer sales management (cars/rvs/etc) where if you don't have a certain rate of cancels over financing issues and buyer's remorse you are not closing hard enough. You want to be losing sales so you know that you are not missing sales.

        With yours you want people to say you are too expensive so you know you a minimizing the money left on the table.
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        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
          Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

          Love this idea.

          There is a similar train of thought in dealer sales management (cars/rvs/etc) where if you don't have a certain rate of cancels over financing issues and buyer's remorse you are not closing hard enough. You want to be losing sales so you know that you are not missing sales.

          With yours you want people to say you are too expensive so you know you a minimizing the money left on the table.
          That is exactly right. If there are no money objections, I have built a ton of value and am not charging enough. It's not all about greed either. Charging too little causes all sorts of problems and doesn't allow you to give as good an experience to the customer.

          It also weeds out most all of the problem clients. In the end, everyone has a great experience.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        As a rule, I want 20% of my "no sale" appointments to be strictly because of price. That means I am priced correctly.
        Dan; I sold that way for years, and did very well. Now, I just never get price objections. It isn't because my price is too low (although I could charge more), it's because I manage the price expectation in the qualifying and presentation stages. So I don't get price as an objection. In fact, the only objection I get now is "Wow, that's a great idea, and we'll get started as soon as we... (anything here will do)". I still miss my share of sales, but the objection is different.
        Yesterday, I gave a speech to a small group on 3 mattress retailers. One bought my $4,000 package One told me that he was absolutely positively going to buy...just as soon as he got an opinion from an SEO guy he knows.

        I said "So, you are going to ask someone who does online marketing if you should buy from his competitor? How do you think he's going to answer that question?". He insisted that I call him, and I guess I will. But I'll be extremely surprised if it turns into anything.

        The third dealer wanted to see other mattress dealer's results before he bought. But really, he just wasn't sold. He asked no questions, and was there for the free lunch.

        So, I still get objections, but they aren't about price. I'm not sure that's a big advantage.
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        • Profile picture of the author cshilling22
          I think that a lot of people are wary of pricing services too high in the beginning and losing sales because they are just starting out and they feel that every opportunity is crucial. A lot can go into finding a prospect and if you are working around your normal work hours there is a large opportunity cost for everything that you do.

          Then if you do start to make sales at lower prices you get caught up in a cycle of maintaining those prices because you are scared of what will happen if you try to increase them.

          That is one reason I think it is really important that when people are starting out they have some sort of guidance or help, even if it is only reading this board, so that they can hopefully avoid these types of traps and see the big picture in everything they do.
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        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Dan; I sold that way for years, and did very well. Now, I just never get price objections. It isn't because my price is too low (although I could charge more), it's because I manage the price expectation in the qualifying and presentation stages. So I don't get price as an objection. In fact, the only objection I get now is "Wow, that's a great idea, and we'll get started as soon as we... (anything here will do)". I still miss my share of sales, but the objection is different.
          Yesterday, I gave a speech to a small group on 3 mattress retailers. One bought my $4,000 package One told me that he was absolutely positively going to buy...just as soon as he got an opinion from an SEO guy he knows.

          I said "So, you are going to ask someone who does online marketing if you should buy from his competitor? How do you think he's going to answer that question?". He insisted that I call him, and I guess I will. But I'll be extremely surprised if it turns into anything.

          The third dealer wanted to see other mattress dealer's results before he bought. But really, he just wasn't sold. He asked no questions, and was there for the free lunch.

          So, I still get objections, but they aren't about price. I'm not sure that's a big advantage.
          That is a really interesting story. So, the guy that bought, do you think he still would have bought at $6,000? The other two obviously wouldn't because they didn't buy at $4,000.

          My thought is "I wonder how many of the $4,000 buyers would still buy at $6,000?" From there it's just some math to see which one is the most profitable approach.

          Do you think at some point the price objections stop because we get better at selling or because the service has become more valuable? I appreciate your input.
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          • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
            Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

            That is a really interesting story. So, the guy that bought, do you think he still would have bought at $6,000? The other two obviously wouldn't because they didn't buy at $4,000.

            My thought is "I wonder how many of the $4,000 buyers would still buy at $6,000?" From there it's just some math to see which one is the most profitable approach.

            Do you think at some point the price objections stop because we get better at selling or because the service has become more valuable? I appreciate your input.
            Sounds like some split testing may be in order.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

            That is a really interesting story. So, the guy that bought, do you think he still would have bought at $6,000? The other two obviously wouldn't because they didn't buy at $4,000.

            My thought is "I wonder how many of the $4,000 buyers would still buy at $6,000?" From there it's just some math to see which one is the most profitable approach.

            Do you think at some point the price objections stop because we get better at selling or because the service has become more valuable? I appreciate your input.
            Dan; To answer your first question, I know that almost all would still buy at $5,999. In fact, my new order form reflects that price. One thing that I have learned is that if I quote the monthly fee first ($699 for 9 months), and after they say "Yes" to that, they decide on paying it in one lump sum...the sale is much easier. Business owners are used to buying advertising by the month. At the higher price, they can chose $699 a month for 12 months instead of the current 9 months.

            I think we stop getting price objections because we manage their expectations. If they tell you that they think your service is worth $2,000 a month to them, it's very difficult to tell you that $700 a month is too much. It's possible that they still may say "I can't afford $700 a month right now", but I take care of that in the beginning by asking how they advertise, and then ask them how much they are spending on advertising all together per month. And then asking how much my service would be worth to them.

            So I hear "I can't afford it", but only in the beginning of the conversation.

            And I want them to know, as soon as I can fit it in..how much my service costs. As soon as they tell me that it will generate at least $3,000 a month, I'll say something like 'What I've pretty excited about is that I think I can help you for less than you are paying right now. Maybe as low as $700 a month. Does that sound workable?" (I love the word Workable. It strongly implies that they will agree to buy)

            If a price objection comes out, I want it at the beginning...because then I can spend the entire time building value and shrinking the price in the customer's mind. If you handle a price objection at the end...you are arguing. You are trying to reverse the flow of them saying "No".

            But if you get it at the beginning, and they are still willing to talk to you? You can start showing them what you do, and what they get...and examples of results...and you can change their reality. You simply can't do that when answering objections.

            Answering price objections after a presentation is like trying to reverse the flow of water as you are going down a sink drain. Getting the objection up front? You have plenty of time to fill the sink.
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            • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              If a price objection comes out, I want it at the beginning...because then I can spend the entire time building value and shrinking the price in the customer's mind. If you handle a price objection at the end...you are arguing. You are trying to reverse the flow of them saying "No".
              I love this approach. I started doing the same back in the early days of my career. I noticed that people were objecting in the same ways frequently.

              At first: I wanted to blame the product.

              I wanted to blame the leads.

              I wanted to blame the company.

              I let them tell me it was the economy.

              I am so, so glad that one day I realized that "it" was me. I immediately made a list of the objections I heard most and began to work them into my pitch from the very start. Before long, I had a killer pitch and was out-selling everyone I used to envy.

              Now, I don't mind objections too much because they tell me where my pitch should be better.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Guys; a little earlier I posted this;

                Yesterday, I gave a speech to a small group on 3 mattress retailers. One bought my $4,000 package One told me that he was absolutely positively going to buy...just as soon as he got an opinion from an SEO guy he knows.

                I said "So, you are going to ask someone who does online marketing if you should buy from his competitor? How do you think he's going to answer that question?". He insisted that I call him, and I guess I will. But I'll be extremely surprised if it turns into anything.

                This morning the guy calls me and tells me he's sold. I asked if he talked to his marketer friend. He said he did...but I wrote a book! and I had a complete presentation on video! and I was giving speeches. So, in this guy's mind, I was the expert.

                Amazing what the idea of celebrity can do. You guys can write your own book about your services (essentially a long form sales letter) and get it published on Createspace for almost free.

                Anyway, sales to callbacks happen rarely for me. And I didn't even call him back. He called me. Just wanted to share.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                I love this approach. I started doing the same back in the early days of my career. I noticed that people were objecting in the same ways frequently.

                At first: I wanted to blame the product.

                I wanted to blame the leads.

                I wanted to blame the company.

                I let them tell me it was the economy.

                I am so, so glad that one day I realized that "it" was me. I immediately made a list of the objections I heard most and began to work them into my pitch from the very start. Before long, I had a killer pitch and was out-selling everyone I used to envy.

                Now, I don't mind objections too much because they tell me where my pitch should be better.
                A very educated post, as I've come to expect.

                A few things you may want to incorporate in your pitch (unless you already do. I just want everyone to know that I know this stuff)

                I like to give them the feeling that they have "shopped". I do this by briefly describing the popular options they have. I don't say anything bad about them, but I might say "In some industries , this is a very valid method. But your business may not get the best results from it because..."

                I want there to be at least two reasons why now is a great time to buy. Reasons that are beyond our control. Changes in product, increases in price...

                I like to say "No" a couple of times. When you say "No" to a prospect's question, it instantly gives you immense credibility. And your answer ring true.

                I always make I sound like everyone buys. I don't say it in so many words, but I never indicate that there is a chance that the may not buy.

                So instead of saying "If you decide to buy..." I say "If we can work out the details..."

                Anyway, I love selling.

                added a minute later;
                Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

                That is great Claude. And you are the expert. I think too often we are too hard on ourselves. Let your star shine.
                Aaron; You are the first man to ever tell me to let my star shine. I can now die in peace....fulfilled.
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                • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I always make I sound like everyone buys. I don't say it in so many words, but I never indicate that there is a chance that the may not buy.

                  So instead of saying "If you decide to buy..." I say "If we can work out the details..."

                  Anyway, I love selling.
                  I always make I sound like everyone wants to buy. I don't say it in so many words,
                  but I ALWAYS indicate that there is more then a chance that they may not be allowed to buy.


                  So instead of saying "WHEN you decide to buy ( see how old school i went there ? ) ..." I say "I need to make sure you fit" before we can work out any details..."

                  or

                  I say, "BOB, I apologize, I really do ... but ( 2-3 second pause )
                  I just don't think this your best avenue
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I agree 100%. The higher price you can charge the better service you can offer. As long as you provide value there is nothing wrong with profit. Profit is a good thing. It's the reason Apple can provide outstanding customer service in an environment known for bad service. Low margins = bad service. It's a simple fact of life.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    This is a fantastic subject, thanks for making the thread Jason.

    About the cancellation thing, I've felt the same way as well. In my remodeling company my salespeople are expected to have 10% cancellations and I'll even accept 15% in some cases. I have to monitor that number constantly to see what can be improved or adjusted. Fortunately I have systems in place that save about 40% of the cancels and 10% of the no-sales.

    Personally, I make price an objection so that I can control it. I try to eliminate every variable possible in the selling process. That's a style that doesn't fit everyone but it's what I'm comfortable with.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      This is a fantastic subject, thanks for making the thread Jason.

      About the cancellation thing, I've felt the same way as well. In my remodeling company my salespeople are expected to have 10% cancellations and I'll even accept 15% in some cases. I have to monitor that number constantly to see what can be improved or adjusted. Fortunately I have systems in place that save about 40% of the cancels and 10% of the no-sales.

      Personally, I make price an objection so that I can control it. I try to eliminate every variable possible in the selling process. That's a style that doesn't fit everyone but it's what I'm comfortable with.
      I love saving lost sales. As a sales manager those are the kind of TOs you should be getting. Instead you have dealerships wasting everyone's time by saying ever walkout needs a management TO. Sorry but I don't need to talk to Sally who is looking for the Unicorn or Sam with the 500 score who wants to put 0 down because he doesn't even have $500 in the bank.

      Instead call me over when you got a guy on the edge but we've pushed him too far. Call me over when the guy has $1k down but the bank needs $3k. Call me over when Dan freaks out after his wife Susan freaked over him putting a deposit down on the RV without her seeing it. Those are conversations and situations where a Sales Manager can make a difference.

      And I love getting to the point where price is the only objection left. Once you get to price (as a true objection) you know they are buying. The only question left is are they buying from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
    I'm surprised you would give this guy any publicity Jason.

    If you poke around his site long enough, he'll gladly tell you that the vast majority of people in sales are bad at it. That's not the shocker though.

    The real kick in the teeth with this guy is he claims there are only certain people who are cut out to be successful salespeople, regardless of training.

    Doesn't that kind of fly in the face of what you promote?

    Edit: Now I'm really confused. He also sells a book on sales training, yet, has software for companies to use to screen out the "bad salespeople" based on their personality traits. This guy is confusing me really bad, or maybe I just haven't had enough caffeine today.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by Jason_V View Post

      I'm surprised you would give this guy any publicity Jason.

      If you poke around his site long enough, he'll gladly tell you that the vast majority of people in sales are bad at it. That's not the shocker though.

      The real kick in the teeth with this guy is he claims there are only certain people who are cut out to be successful salespeople, regardless of training.

      Doesn't that kind of fly in the face of what you promote?

      Edit: Now I'm really confused. He also sells a book on sales training, yet, has software for companies to use to screen out the "bad salespeople" based on their personality traits. This guy is confusing me really bad, or maybe I just haven't had enough caffeine today.
      Hi Jason,

      Dave Kurlan is a real sales force development expert. Top 10 on the planet. I've been following Dave for years.

      I interviewed him here:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ve-kurlan.html

      So he works with bigger companies than I do--so far. His book, Baseline Selling, is a good primer for consultative selling (I bought it). And his OMG assessment is excellent (I've taken it).

      Most people DO have problems/headtrash that stops them from being good salespeople. They are bad at it. The two issues I highlighted from his post are HUGE ones. Without getting into self-promotion, and because you asked, these are addressed in my training.

      Generally speaking, when hiring you want to know if the individual is:
      • coachable
      • trainable
      • has the right sales skillset, and a good 'ramp up' potential.

      If they aren't, wouldn't you want to know this prior to hiring? In the interview, we discuss why many other so-called sales assessments are no good for the job...they're merely personality assessments.

      I believe anyone can become a great salesperson--that salespeople are not born but made, and I'm living proof--and that most people get into selling without any knowledge at all except some product knowledge. Would you let an engineer build a bridge without any training? An accountant do your taxes without any training? A doctor operate on you without any training?

      Identifying conceptual issues we all have within ourselves, and improving upon them, is critical to sales success. Perhaps I should change the thread title to "Why Not Every Person Can Be a Salesperson (Right Now).
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    That is great Claude. And you are the expert. I think too often we are too hard on ourselves. Let your star shine.
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