Are you shooting yourself in the foot by doing this?

29 replies
Picture this...you are talking with a consulting prospect
and he is describing a problem you have heard before and know
how to solve it.

Next step is to go right in with the solution and seek to close,
right?

Hold your horses!

There's a point which may come back to bite you later.

Yep, even when the prospect comes a client and is very happy.

How so?

Watch and listen...

Enjoy!
Ewen

#foot #shooting
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Interesting and this will surprise many people.

    It is very tempting to rush to the solution.

    The statement near the end of the vid about the client being most open at the beginning is very true. It's like a doctor-patient relationship: at first the patient is willing to be truthful because they want to get better. Once they're better again, the patient goes back to "Everything's OK" mode and stops talking to the doc.

    In the the business world, the client returns to "Everything's OK" mode with the consultant/service provider. Even when they're paying for an ongoing service, the client will still make major changes that may impact that service without informing the consultant! Big problems may occur. Keeping that channel of open, honest and (at least relatively) complete communication open is one of the most difficult things to do in business.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      There's another aspect which comes into play also,
      and that is the level of power between the two.

      If you go in hard for the close when more discovery is called for,
      then they can sense you are more of a vendor and treated as such.

      You want the relationship to be at a strategic level where you get an overall sense of where the leader wants to take the company.

      This allows you to match what you've got to their vision.

      And it's hard to turn you down when you suggest a higher price solution.

      Another words this is where you get the bigger deals in the front end and get the critical buy-in to implement.

      Without going deeper into discovery you walk away with smaller deals and higher possibility of strained relations later because you aren't aligning what you've got to their big picture.

      The power balance favors them.

      Slowing down is one way to get them talking about what's important to them,
      and helps you stop talking yourself out of your big pay day.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        There's another aspect which comes into play also,
        and that is the level of power between the two.

        If you go in hard for the close when more discovery is called for,
        then they can sense you are more of a vendor and treated as such.


        You want the relationship to be at a strategic level where you get an overall sense of where the leader wants to take the company.

        This allows you to match what you've got to their vision.

        And it's hard to turn you down when you suggest a higher price solution

        Best,
        Ewen
        Yup. I also ask lots of questions up front to make my solution seem like a prescription for them specifically.

        I like to answer at least one of their questions starting with "No".

        The one who says "No" to the other one is in control. It doesn't have to be a question that counts. For example "Do you think we should get another website?"... "No. You're website is fine. You need more exposure, not another website".

        It's selling, but at a very high level.

        I like to hesitate just a little when they say they may be interested in my program. "Let me ask a couple of questions to make sure it's a good fit"...

        You need to know when to let the line out, when to reel them in, and when to cast another line. You want the hook set. You won't get another chance.

        Once they start seeing you as a vendor, it's over. Once they start hesitating...it's over.
        You want big bucks? You can never look like you need the business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Yup. I also ask lots of questions up front to make my solution seem like a prescription for them specifically.

          I like to answer at least one of their questions starting with "No".

          The one who says "No" to the other one is in control. It doesn't have to be a question that counts. For example "Do you think we should get another website?"... "No. You're website is fine. You need more exposure, not another website".

          It's selling, but at a very high level.

          I like to hesitate just a little when they say they may be interested in my program. "Let me ask a couple of questions to make sure it's a good fit"...

          You need to know when to let the line out, when to reel them in, and when to cast another line. You want the hook set. You won't get another chance.

          Once they start seeing you as a vendor, it's over. Once they start hesitating...it's over.
          You want big bucks? You can never look like you need the business.
          More great ideas for me to soak up here. This is yet another thread that is truly a great source of priceless information. You veteran sales guys really make it not only look easy but you make it feel cool to do.

          Mr. Whitacre, you make a very good point in saying you can't look like you need the business, reminds me of the dating variation that says hungry dogs don't get fed, and they are both true.

          In dating its pretty easy to know what not to do to be percieved as a hungry dog, but in sales, if you are actively making cold calls its pretty apparent that you want new business. So my question here to you and all the veterans present in this thread is this.

          How do you handle the conversation and situation so as to not come off as NEEDING the sale?
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

            How do you handle the conversation and situation so as to not come off as NEEDING the sale?
            In our case where we know we are talking to the decision maker,
            it's a case of getting on the same side of the table and seeing if we can get
            them a better deal than their existing supplier.

            If it doesn't make sense to him or me,
            then we end.

            So when you are looking for clues as to why this person isn't a good match,
            then you push back to test.

            Looking for a reason why not to do business never has you
            "needy".

            Best,
            Ewen
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              In our case where we know we are talking to the decision maker,
              it's a case of getting on the same side of the table and seeing if we can get
              them a better deal than their existing supplier.

              If it doesn't make sense to him or me,
              then we end.

              So when you are looking for clues as to why this person isn't a good match,
              then you push back to test.

              Looking for a reason why not to do business never has you
              "needy".


              Best,
              Ewen
              Ewen has it. Pretend that you don't need the business, but are accepting new clients. Now, how do you sound? You ask more questions. You don't jump on every chance to close the sale. You say "No" to something they have asked you. You don't say bad things about what they are doing (an act of stupidity and neediness).

              Also, not avoiding sales questions is a great way to show that you are used to people buying from you. If they ask about price, give it to them right then as though it was nothing. Pretend like you are selling your service for a dollar. How would you answer the "Price" question now?

              And after you say the price, the next word out of your mouth better never be "But..." or you'll lose the sale.

              You need this mindset;
              The last 20 prospects bought.
              You're next.

              Not in a cocky jerky way, but quiet confidence. And very very quickly, it won't be an act.
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              “Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” - Matsuo Basho
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            • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Looking for a reason why not to do business never has you
              "needy".
              In fact it saves you oodles of money and time.

              Taking every bit of business that shows an interest and comes your way lands you with loads of whinging penny pinching time wasters who are not serious about truly growing their business.
              What's the point of delivering your stuff and bringing in XXX leads to be converted when they aren't serious about converting them to the best of their abilities, when they are only capable of managing X new business that week/month.

              Look at first you have to have some bread and butter, but you are truly seeking to have the whole enchilada , the smoked salmon, the caviar, the magnum of champagne and the lobster thermador.
              Why settle for peanuts and a flat lager?
              Signature

              Mike

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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    Id carry on asking open questions, their first problem is unlikely to be their major one , its just a tester , genuine problem, but a tester from them to see is this guy for real or is he just speaking from script/memory , is he gonna sell me as soon as he can or is he here to try to help me long term.

    Keep them talking, uncover X number of other issues including future proofing many aspects of their current strategies and solve them all for a big package price.

    Will watch the vid later when I got some time, cheers Ewen
    Signature

    Mike

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  • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
    So these guys are consultants for consultants? Nice.
    Signature
    FILL IN THE BLANKS!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
    Ahhh ok, so rather than being the stranger on the other side of the table trying to sell his wares...I should take on a position as a peer business man who is evaluating THEIR business to see if THEY qualify to work with me and thus enjoy the benefits of my services.

    Basically taking on a mindset of "I may be hungry for new clients, but I have a very high quality standard for which clients I will entertain".

    Excellent! Excellent!! Excellent!!! EXCELLENT!!!

    Thank you honored veterans. I'm understanding more and more each day from you guys.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

      Ahhh ok, so rather than being the stranger on the other side of the table trying to sell his wares...I should take on a position as a peer business man who is evaluating THEIR business to see if THEY qualify to work with me and thus enjoy the benefits of my services.

      Basically taking on a mindset of "I may be hungry for new clients, but I have a very high quality standard for which clients I will entertain".

      Excellent! Excellent!! Excellent!!! EXCELLENT!!!

      Thank you honored veterans. I'm understanding more and more each day from you guys.
      Take out the "I may be hungry for new clients..." part. You never think that to yourself while you are selling. I never think that at all.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      “Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” - Matsuo Basho
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      • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Take out the "I may be hungry for new clients..." part. You never think that to yourself while you are selling. I never think that at all.
        Yeah, that was a poor choice of words. I rather meant my burning desire to acquire new clients and have great success. There, much better..

        I do understand what you mean there though. I shouldn't attach too much thought or emotional energy to the outcomes of the process.

        Curious, what DO you think about during a sale process?
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

          Yeah, that was a poor choice of words. I rather meant my burning desire to acquire new clients and have great success. There, much better..

          I do understand what you mean there though. I shouldn't attach too much thought or emotional energy to the outcomes of the process.

          Curious, what DO you think about during a sale process?
          I think that's an incredibly smart question.

          The entire time I'm in front of the client I'm thinking about how to best help them in their business. Not even about how to sell them. I make recommendations based on one thing..what is the smartest thing the client can do? Usually it's to get my program. But sometimes it isn't.

          Sometimes it's another form of marketing. And sometimes I'm the one to help, and sometimes not. But I wouldn't be talking to them if it weren't highly likely that this is a good fit.

          And deep in the recesses of my amygdala, I'm steering the conversation to the close. But I'm not consciously thinking about that.

          Humans can read thousands of "tells". Body language, tone of voice, timing of words, word choices, inflection, posture...things that would be impossible to be aware of all at once.

          But if you are concentrating totally on how to serve them, from a position of expertise...that all takes care of itself.

          And decades of serious sales training have given me all the technique, although unconsciously, that I would ever need.

          I don't allow myself to think about the sale itself, until I'm in the car away from the client. I never let them think that I'm excited that they bought. That's what salespeople do. Act like a doctor asking questions and then making recommendations.

          By the way, I use the word "Recommend" a lot. Also "Suggestion".

          "May I make a suggestion?" "Here's what I recommend...."

          Two great positioning statements.

          In front of a client, I'm always a caring professional. And while I'm talking to them, I really am.

          But it isn't completely the way I normally think.
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        • Profile picture of the author misterme
          Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

          Yeah, that was a poor choice of words. I rather meant my burning desire to acquire new clients and have great success. There, much better..

          I do understand what you mean there though. I shouldn't attach too much thought or emotional energy to the outcomes of the process.

          Curious, what DO you think about during a sale process?
          Not even thinking "burning desire" or "acquiring new clients." I'm thinking why I love what I can do for the client, but more on that in a second.

          Something that helped me shy away from thinking hungry or about gaining a client was reflecting on pro forums in my industry where other vendors moan, bitch and groan about the headaches their clients give them. Now, they get those headaches because they don't know how to manage client expectations, they take anyone on with a pulse, they work for cheap and get difficult clients... but it demonstrates to me that if I don't handle client acquisition correctly, I too will suffer migraines.

          So I have a mind set that if I don't get a client, I probably dodged a bullet. That may be the wrong mind set, I don't know. But it stops me from salivating all over prospects.

          So I advise. And it comes from a place where I genuinely feel a passion for why I do what I do. Now here's the thing: the right client will also respond to that advice. The ones who don't value you, won't. This is presupposing that you've built credibility, trust, value, etc.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
            The analogy of a caring professional doctor diagnosing and recommending the best course of action to heal his patients ailments really changes the entire perspective. Sometimes you have the right prescription and sometimes you will have to advise them to seek another specialist who can better serve their needs. That's a great perspective to keep. I really like how that one feels from a sales point of view.


            For the same reasons your advice Misterme hits home as well. Some times you just don't want that problem patient that no doctor wants to treat. Forcing your solution on them whether its the best fit or not makes as much sense as forcing a square peg into a round hole.

            What I've taken away from this today is that what I offer may not be whats best for the prospect and if it isn't whats best I can freely walk away (and should walk away) from them without feeling a loss but rather feeling relief that I didn't waste my time and theirs.

            Thank you once again honored veterans.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Proudmoor Media, sticking with the doctor analogy,
              they are sworn to an oath which means to do no harm to the patient.

              And the original meaning of the term client
              was to be under one's protection.

              You'll see that line in my signature.

              Live by those guiding principles then all tactics
              will pass those tests.

              Best,
              Ewen
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              • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
                Thank you for your added wisdom Ewen. The things you guys have shared with me has shifted my view about selling. I have moved from the mindset of getting as many sales and as much as possible from each sale, to a mindset of serving the right people with incomparable devotion and unmatched value. This I think will help me more than anything.

                When you believe you are genuinely serving a persons best interest and can deliver the value you promise, it really makes it easier to price your service at a premium because its not really about the product or service at that point, its more about you as a person who is looking out for the best interests of someone under your care. That really changes how you approach people. It surely will change how I approach them from now on.
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

                  Thank you for your added wisdom Ewen. The things you guys have shared with me has shifted my view about selling. I have moved from the mindset of getting as many sales and as much as possible from each sale, to a mindset of serving the right people with incomparable devotion and unmatched value. This I think will help me more than anything.
                  Last night I sent an email asking who I should be speaking with at
                  a Pizza place about getting them a better deal on their present supplies.
                  Got the persons name and time in this morning [Saturday].

                  He was out when phoned and got another time when he would be in. Phoned and he answered. Very interested and invited me in to chat on the days he is in.

                  See with the right approach you are the welcome guest,
                  not an annoying pest.

                  Just got a reply back now from an email asking who is the right person I should be speaking within a company that owns and runs a number of bars.

                  Bingo!, welcome guest.

                  Best,
                  Ewen
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

                  Thank you for your added wisdom Ewen. The things you guys have shared with me has shifted my view about selling. I have moved from the mindset of getting as many sales and as much as possible from each sale, to a mindset of serving the right people with incomparable devotion and unmatched value. This I think will help me more than anything.

                  When you believe you are genuinely serving a persons best interest and can deliver the value you promise, it really makes it easier to price your service at a premium because its not really about the product or service at that point, its more about you as a person who is looking out for the best interests of someone under your care. That really changes how you approach people. It surely will change how I approach them from now on.
                  The danger here is to use your "professionalism" as a reason not to sell.

                  To carry the doctor analogy one step further...imagine that you have a patient that needs an operation to save their life, and you are the most qualified to perform it. Now, you have to convince them that they should get the operation. That's part of being a professional too.

                  Leading is part of serving.

                  Begging is not part of it.
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                  “Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” - Matsuo Basho
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

                  Thank you for your added wisdom Ewen. The things you guys have shared with me has shifted my view about selling. I have moved from the mindset of getting as many sales and as much as possible from each sale, to a mindset of serving the right people with incomparable devotion and unmatched value. This I think will help me more than anything.
                  Another point is there is no need to convince.

                  You are collaborating.

                  First you set the agreement as to what the
                  other persons goal is.

                  Then ask permission to ask questions to
                  form a plan to get the desired outcome.

                  Work through the "what if's"

                  Then narrowing down the best ways to reach the end goal.

                  There may be several parts to it, that's fine.

                  Each part can then be laid out then the question asked,
                  "sounds good to add to me, what about you?"

                  Then you both feel you have exhausted all the options together,
                  summarized, then you come to the conclusion where you ask
                  this easy closing question...

                  "Do you want me to help you with this?"

                  This is for consulting.

                  You've demonstrated your value through working with your prospect as to the best path to reach his goals.

                  Then simply asking if he wants help with it.

                  Totally devoid from the tactics most internet marketers experience and use.

                  Just another layer of understanding required.

                  You seem ready for it.

                  Best,
                  Ewen
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
                    Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                    Another point is there is no need to convince.

                    You are collaborating.

                    First you set the agreement as to what the
                    other persons goal is.

                    Then ask permission to ask questions to
                    form a plan to get the desired outcome.

                    Work through the "what if's"

                    Then narrowing down the best ways to reach the end goal.

                    There may be several parts to it, that's fine.

                    Each part can then be laid out then the question asked,
                    "sounds good to add to me, what about you?"

                    Then you both feel you have exhausted all the options together,
                    summarized, then you come to the conclusion where you ask
                    this easy closing question...

                    "Do you want me to help you with this?"

                    This is for consulting.

                    You've demonstrated your value through working with your prospect as to the best path to reach his goals.

                    Then simply asking if he wants help with it.

                    Totally devoid from the tactics most internet marketers experience and use.

                    Just another layer of understanding required.

                    You seem ready for it.

                    Best,
                    Ewen
                    I completely understand what you are saying here Ewen and yes I am ready for all it entails. This approach fits my natural personality very well.

                    I can grasp that each prospect will have unique circumstances to overcome but the general idea of getting to their issues should follow a common path.

                    What you've laid out in the previous post shows how to progress the conversation AFTER having probed and established their business goals.

                    In light of this, I propose another question.

                    What do I need to ask a prospect, when probing their situation, that will encourage them to share their goals with me and allow me to formulate a plan and lead them to their unique solution?
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                    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                      Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post


                      What do I need to ask a prospect, when probing their situation, that will encourage them to share their goals with me and allow me to formulate a plan and lead them to their unique solution?
                      This is a great question for paid consulting...

                      "Ken, picture you are 12 months from now and you think back what
                      a difference your life would be from working with me...
                      how do you think that would look?"

                      For more on this, read The Dan Sullivan Question.

                      This is the initial part where we are seeking the future goals
                      of your prospects. He might say "will I want to grow my business to where my revenue is $1.75 million. Take on no more employees"

                      You then ask, "why is that important to you Ken".

                      Follow up with, "tell me more about that"

                      Next ask, "what's stopping you from getting there Ken"

                      Then follow up the all time best probing question,
                      "tell me more about that".

                      Next stage is to ask where he sees the biggest growth opportunity.

                      What I've outlined is the initial stage to get a clear goal
                      our prospect wants.

                      You are asking great questions
                      which deserve thoughtful and thorough answers.

                      Best,
                      Ewen
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jezreel Pigott
                        Thanks again Ewen, that was a great example and I'll get my hands on that book the Dan Sullivan Question to get the full picture as well. This has been a mentally transforming experience discussing this with you and Claude, I can't thank you both enough for pointing me in the right direction.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                          Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

                          Thanks again Ewen, that was a great example and I'll get my hands on that book the Dan Sullivan Question to get the full picture as well. This has been a mentally transforming experience discussing this with you and Claude, I can't thank you both enough for pointing me in the right direction.
                          These are the 5 principles to grow any business.

                          Watch and enjoy!

                          Best,
                          Ewen

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=DYUlIVG7VdI
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    There's actually quite a simple human element here.

    When your prospect is talking and you're listening
    you're making them and their problems important.

    As soon as you start talking and providing solutions
    you're making yourself important and putting less
    value on listening to them.

    And you're going to come across as a salesperson
    the more you try to "sell" a solution.

    So the timing of giving suggestions is crucial.

    Generally speaking you can't listen too much.

    If you're really good you can actually lead your
    prospect in the direction that you want to go
    with intelligent well placed questions.

    That takes some skill of course but it can be
    amazingly effective.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by Proudmoor Media View Post

    What do I need to ask a prospect, when probing their situation, that will encourage them to share their goals with me and allow me to formulate a plan and lead them to their unique solution?
    To do this right, before you even get to asking questions, first you need to establish some trust and likability. That's the foundation. So however they hear of you or information you give them should impart evidence that builds credibility. Them liking you then comes from you being sociable, good natured and well mannered. And of course you need to stay congruent in every aspect.

    When you have some credibility and trust then they're more likely to be open with you in their answers.

    The thing about asking questions isn't simply to garner information but to have them mentally process the information to come to their own conclusions instead of you telling them the conclusions.

    It's far more powerful when they do that mental work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      To do this right, before you even get to asking questions, first you need to establish some trust and likability.
      I tend to blend those processes together. I am friendly as I ask questions, and they know who I am (and the trust building that grants) before I talk to them.

      The process of asking questions also gives you more credibility.
      Listening gives you credibility and builds rapport. I mean real listening, not just letting them talk while you think of the next thing to say.
      I also like to ask their opinion about something. Just once is enough. Most clients are good at something, or have an expertise that you can ask them about. If they talk about their passion a bit too long, I may say
      "I'm sorry I'm taking up so much of your time asking about this...but you brought up a good point earlier..." and I just get back on track.

      But asking these questions is part of the track. As you ask questions, you establish that the advice you are going to give is studied expertise, that is specific to their situation. It simply won't occur to them to shop around, or try to negotiate price.

      Have you ever negotiated your dentist bill? Same thing.

      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      The thing about asking questions isn't simply to garner information but to have them mentally process the information to come to their own conclusions instead of you telling them the conclusions.

      It's far more powerful when they do that mental work.
      Very powerful suggestion, that.
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      “Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise; seek what they sought.” - Matsuo Basho
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post


      The thing about asking questions isn't simply to garner information but to have them mentally process the information to come to their own conclusions instead of you telling them the conclusions.

      It's far more powerful when they do that mental work.
      Yes it's understanding distinctions like this
      make for a profound difference in the way you sell.

      Thanks for bringing this up.

      Best,
      Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author RockNRolla
    This is pretty straight forward stuff. When I'm dealing with a client I NEVER jump in and start providing any possible solutions until I have let them get absolutely everything off their chest and I have asked them as many questions as I can about what they want/need and what their problems are.

    As soon as they have laid down what their problems are, I go straight in to understanding mode and explain how I know exactly how they feel and THEN start providing possible solutions to fix their problems.
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