Jordan has actually done this with a number of things.

He and Frank Kern ran a boiler room selling local marketing, which once they were upsold would end up at like $10-30k lifetime value.

He's also done it in insurance and a few other things.

I've personally done his straight line system, and theres no doubt its good.

But there's someone way better out there.

A guy named Thor Saleswarlord is absolutely smashing it. I used to work with him and be his #1 sales guy.

He's the guy Frank recommends when needing to improve your sales, he helped Perry Belcher and Ryan Diess sell $75k on the first day of his team using his scripts.

He's the best sales guy in the world at the moment.

In fact he actually spoke at Traffic and Conversion. He then ran an event where they had 30 people in the room. 1st day was training, the 2nd day they were on the phone selling. The room sold $180,000 CASH within the day.

One of Frank Kerns clients was really struggling, about to shut up shop. He did one of Thors trainings and made over $80k cash in the next few weeks.

Now I don't say this for my benefit, I get nothing from it.

Infact I havent even spoken to him in about 6 months.

But I HIGHLY recommend checking him out on Facebook. Or even just liking their page: https://www.facebook.com/leelarocks

His wife is a marketing genius too.

Just my 2 cents. Everyone talks about Jordan Belforts sales. And I've done it, and I've done Thors. Thor wins 100% of the time.

You left out the part about having 1,000 salespeople under you.

There is a reason why Belfort, Kern, Deiss, and all the other "gurus" sell stuff to internet marketers - it's the same reason why you see so many WSO's with rehashed stuff: It's because there is a sucker born every day. And every day, more new suckers with that hopeful gleam in their eye and a little cash are willing to listen (and sometimes pay) someone else to teach them rather than doing their due diligence and trying things out for themselves.

Of course, we can't say that some of the principles their "systems" use can't work but the principals that actually DO work are nothing new. And, it's just that it's unlikely to work most of the time for us ordinary folk.

Actually, I would like to see Belfort, Kern and some of these other guys slang some vacuum cleaners like Claude suggests. Let's see how well they would do then.

Doesn't the 'ol Kirby Vacuum Cleaners go for about $1k a pop? That's about as much as some of Kern's training seminars - so he should be able to make a killing right? :rolleyes:

But hey......I'm just a dude grinding out chump change on the internet, it's all just my $0.02

Stan Billue is amazing. If you listen to the way he speaks, he conveys Certainty. No "word whiskers" like "Um".."OK?"...or "let me ask you this..."

Hypnotists and radio announcers talk the same way.

Mr. Hickey;

You were at the Deiss event and you didn't say "Hi"? You could have easily found me by listening for the guy that was bragging the loudest, and slurping his soup. :rolleyes:

I would have loved to have met you.

I think the "Tonality" and pacing stuff in Straight Line Selling is what was new to me.

His phone approach strikes me as "Selling is Theater". Which isn't a bad approach.

I looked all over last night and I couldn't find anything of value from Thor. Found a single audio where he talks about overcoming sales anxiety as well as a few youtube videos where he goes off on a non-sensical, drunken slur about sales, but thats about it.

The concept of looping was a real eye opener to me. The only thing I don't like about The Straight Line is how assumptive and high pressure it seems to be. Then again, I have always been a fan of a more low pressure, trust based style of closing.

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Thanks for sharing that, Steve.

I've been around long enough to know that when someone starts proclaiming their honesty - or how they've changed - it't time to cover your pockets.

That old guy had to work extra years to repay the bank - and Jordan is lving the life o - oceanfront in Hermosa Beach - dolar wise - pretty top shelf life in the Southern California.

That said, the piece wasn't very nuanced

After all, who gets a phone call from a not very well known firm (unknown?) and invests hundreds of thousands of dollars just because the other guy "won't let him hang up"?

There seems to be no shortage of suckers - i.e. people who are not responsible for their own lives.

Not saying JB isn't a scumbag - he is - but really - not being able to say no to the tune of hundreds of thousands of borrowed dollars?




[QUOTE=SteveSki;9239583]Jordan Belfort is currently in Australia on a speaking tour. He claims that he is on track to pay his 110.4 Million Dollar fine back this year but the U.S. Government can’t garnish his earnings because they have no jurisdiction over the Australian booking agent he uses. If he really plans on paying it why isn’t he turning at least part of the money over now? He paid nothing in 2010 and only $21,000 in 2011. Very clever of him to set things up the way he has. Talk is cheap… let’s see if he keeps his word… but a leopard very seldom changes his spots.

You can read how slick he is at: No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

Really? Because that makes me think of the bulldog-gotcha-by-the-ankle-won't-let-you-go type of sales where the prospect just said "no I don't think so" and the salesperson doesn't stop and goes right on with "but it makes sense to ya, right? Ya know, that's the true beauty of this..."

I agree, and don't know why trainers do that. I hear dialog that makes me think "I'd laugh at someone, if they said that".

Some of this dialog isn't so much to sell the customer, but to impress the audience.

Some of the techniques come in very concentrated form. And most salespeople don't talk to customers in a dynamic speaking voice. I sure don't.

By the way, everything in my book on selling is taken from recording of what I actually say when selling. There is no need to modify anything.

It's interesting to me that most books on selling give dialog that is so theatrical.

When I was more actively selling, I would attend training sessions of other sales organizations. Their top rep would go with me for a day or two, and I would go with them...on appointments. It was a great exchange of information.

But I noticed that what the rep (or manager) said in the sales training class...was sometimes way different from what they said when selling. They were much more subservient in actual selling situations. Their techniques would generally leave them, and they would stumble around...and usually just lower their price. It was kind of sad.

And back in the sales office, the next day, they were the same old "Dragon Slayer" they were before.

A facet of human nature that I've never understood is the frequency of a salesperson saying "And then I say....(random thing they got out of a book)"...when, in reality, they never say those things.

Bob,

I'm waiting for you to do an interview with Belfort.
You can cover his "gentle nature". Ha! Ha!

I'm only half-kidding. You've got the interview skills.
You'd do a great job with Belfort or Polish.

I've not seen anyone cover Belfort's pit bull sales style.
He tries to mask it, but it oozes out of him.

The fact is...it works! He makes millions of dollars with it.
So do others. Grant Cardone comes to mind. He'd be a
heck of an interview too, Bob.

Ron

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I have his system. that style worked for him back in the day. Let me see anyone make it happen now. People change and evolve, hard selling won't work in most selling situations anymore.

You are completely wrong. You think something is easier to sell, when it's a lie?

Are lies easier to believe? Do salespeople sound more confident when they are lying?
Is it easier to show proof when it's a lie?
Is it easier to answer questions consistently, when you are lying?

Boiler room figures are great because they are working...hard. That's why the money is being made.

Do you think that companies that are selling a scam are the most successful? Do you think it's easier to keep great salespeople when they are told to lie?

When your entire pitch is a lie, how many repeat sales do you make? How many referrals for you get? What kind of sales momentum do you build?

And, young man..do you know who says the word "Legit"? People who just got out of prison.

I think I'm actually going to give this a shot.

You are talking about Belfort making so much money, because he was promising impossible returns, and he was keeping nearly all the money from the sale. In other words, instead of the regular broker commission, he was keeping everything (except the minuscule real value of the stock). Am I right?

First, he only made 50 million one year. It wasn't what he normally earned. And he had 1,000 reps. That's $50,000 per rep to him, in one peak year.

Do you know what can be sold by phone to generate $50,000 in net profits per rep?

Almost anything.....selling almost any legitimate offer. Belfort didn't make these profits by selling personally. He made them from the cumulative efforts of a huge and eager sales force.

Did he make more money on the sales he (and his office) made that year, by keeping 95% of the money, instead of a 5% commission? Yes. A ton more money. Di he make more sales by offering a 500% return, instead of a real return? Maybe. I'll even give you that.

For example, I run a retail store. I sell $1,000 vacuum cleaners. Would I make more money if the vacuum cleaners were stolen, and I bought them for $25, instead of $500? Yes. For a very short time. But over a ten year period? No. Because I would lose everything, and go to jail. Just like Belfort.

Promising a 500% return? Did it make more sales? Maybe. For a very short period of time. And remember, he only made..at peak...$50,000 per rep, per year.

Any phone room manager will tell you, that's not even a lot. It isn't even enough to brag about. He attracted reps because of the promises of money. And they did make lots of money, for a short period. But there is no future in it.

Lets pretend (because I don't have the figures), that an average phone rep with Belfort made $200,000 a year. I bet that's high, but we'll use that figure. They worked the phones all day. They sold big ticket offers. They called a good list. And they closed hard on the phone.

You don't think a guy selling gym memberships could do that? Selling time shares? Selling franchises? Selling auto parts?

Belfort talks about a few of his top reps making a million a year. I'm assuming it's true. Guess what? Top reps in many field make a million a year. And every year, that figure goes up for them...because they can be trusted with money.

My best year, I made about a half a million dollars in net profit selling vacuum cleaners in people's homes. That's not a lie. Would it have been a million dollars, if the vacuum cleaners were stolen? or used? Or missing vital parts? Maybe. But then I would go to jail, or at least my business would be ruined. Not smart. And Belfort wasn't smart.

And what about the reps being all excited about the vastly higher commissions?

They were almost all very young. Young and stupid. They had no idea that it's impossible to maintain a business based on lies. This all occurred a couple of decades ago.


Where are these guys now? Are they still living "The Life"? probably not.

And please, for the love of God....stop saying "Legit". You sound like a two bit hustler.

This post was meant to help you. I hope you got something out of it.



Let me think.

I have written 5 books on sales. Two are top 5 sellers, on Amazon, in their category.

For 35 years I sold in people homes and offices, high ticket products and services.

At 21 years old, I was the third top salesperson, selling life insurance, in the company. There were 2,200 agents. I've made about 12,000 sales presentations in the field. I have a tad more than 7,200 high end sales that I have made personally. In my town, there are two streets where everyone bought a high end vacuum cleaner from me.

For the last 12 years, I've been a sales speaker and trainer. I charge $500 an hour for phone consulting...and I get it.

In my core industry (vacuum cleaner sales), when I went to the conventions to speak, I was the only paid speaker there. I've been the Keynote speaker. I've made as much as $52,000 for a 90 minutes in front of a room of salespeople.

When I walk into a room, with people in my business, I can hear them whisper "That's him. That's Whitacre".


Google my name. I'm not the final authority, but I'm not entirely dim.

Now...why should we listen to you?

hey pauljones99


share your input.

what makes what you do and/or what Jordan professes so valuable?

how is competition fierce in what your doing and not others? sales is sales or not???


* I'm just old and cranky (from losing money from guys like this)

I gave it a real shot. I really gave an effort to try to help you. Too bad. You could have learned something here.

Education is hard to pull off when emotionally invested in an idea.
I'll even go so far as to say almost impossible when yelling and cursing.

If you really have something of value to say - please - say it ...
Just keep in mind it's in everybody's best interest to keep it civil.

It's in your interest if you want people to understand what your saying.

But it worked well in that day and principle will always work.

It's easy (much easier i should say) to sell things if you make dream claims.

Like IM sales pages. Full of hype,fraud, false claims, dreams is much easier to sell than reality.

All the cold calling scams these days are the same principle. Sell a non existent dream to the gullible with some money!

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If you could leave a review on Amazon, I'll consider it a huge favor. Thanks.

In homage to the recently deceased Yogi Berra (RIP)...

Excellent find, Barry!

See! Yer ol' buddy Ron, told you it was there!

Now, you're almost home, my friend. I'm so excited for ya, I almost wet myself.

Start looking for a Round Tuit.

Here's what they look like...




Once you "take the fork in the road" and "get a round tuit" Barry, you'll have
it "made in the shade".

Ahhh Garooonteee!!