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HOW... would you HELP this man?

by pplicon
33 replies
HOW WOULD YOU HELP THIS MAN??

Had a convo with a guy who installs gutters, and he told me that in his 20+ years in business that he hadn't been this slow. He mainly relies on a few big commercial contractors to refer him work, but he stated that even they are slow. So slow to the point where he's contemplating selling his boat, to stay afloat until it picks back up. He hasn't done any real marketing (by his own admission) since he 1st started in business. He wants to letter his truck, he's been handing out biz cards that are almost 10 years old, and wants to do that internet "thigamagic" on google and facebook, but barely knows how to work his email.

How would you help this man get his phone ringing TODAY?

I'm leaning towards posting ads to Craiglist, creating and ranking a vid for buyer/emergency keywords, and reaching out to his fam and friends who are on FB and Twitter to share the vid on their pages.

Is there anything that you all would suggest that could possibly get this man's phone ringing sometime this week, preferably today?
#man
  • Profile picture of the author James English
    Originally Posted by pplicon View Post

    HOW WOULD YOU HELP THIS MAN??

    Had a convo with a guy who installs gutters, and he told me that in his 20+ years in business that he hadn't been this slow. He mainly relies on a few big commercial contractors to refer him work, but he stated that even they are slow. So slow to the point where he's contemplating selling his boat, to stay afloat until it picks back up. He hasn't done any real marketing (by his own admission) since he 1st started in business. He wants to letter his truck, he's been handing out biz cards that are almost 10 years old, and wants to do that internet "thigamagic" on google and facebook, but barely knows how to work his email.

    How would you help this man get his phone ringing TODAY?

    I'm leaning towards posting ads to Craiglist, creating and ranking a vid for buyer/emergency keywords, and reaching out to his fam and friends who are on FB and Twitter to share the vid on their pages.

    Is there anything that you all would suggest that could possibly get this man's phone ringing sometime this week, preferably today?
    Craigslist seems like your best bet for finding people today. Long term strategy I would put together a direct mail piece and take a look at some of Bob Ross's stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    He needs to get referrals and leads from NEW sources. Furiously trying to rake over the coals of the old ones isn't going to work. Whoever he's been talking to until now, he needs to STOP doing that and start talking to new people.

    Bandit signs in high traffic locations can help quickly.

    When I ran a metal fab shop and things got slow, I jumped in the truck and drove around looking for jobsites. Within an hour or two I'd be back at the shop with an order for a custom structural bracket (pricey!) or railing project. The work is out there but you can't just sit there and wait for it to come to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      "Is there anything that you all would suggest that could possibly get this man's phone ringing sometime this week, preferably today?"

      Offer gutter cleaning for a nominal fee. Canvass neighborhoods door to door.
      He'll have the opportunity to do inspections and give on the spot quotes.

      Do it right and he'll get more work than he can handle.
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      • Profile picture of the author BigSnakeSituation
        Offer gutter cleaning for a nominal fee. Canvass neighborhoods door to door.
        He'll have the opportunity to do inspections and give on the spot quotes.

        You're on point with this one. It's total worth keeping some gutter guards on hand. I'm willing to bet the margins on gutter guard sales & installation are greater per liner foot than gutters themselves.Once you factor in time, that is.

        I'm not sure if it was this forum or not but a tree service guy offered free mulch as a gateway to ask you need a free limbs cut down. I see the same thing available here.

        1. Offer (free) or low cost gutter cleaning
        2. Up sell with gutter guards and or gutter repair
        3. Canvass the neighborhood

        Sadly, i know this works because many of homeowners tricked me into install gutter guards while I was on the roof if they ran to the local box store to them up. How dumb was I.BTW, this was years before I found this site or even knew what up selling is.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          You idea makes sense but there is a small problem that I see with it.

          Gutter cleaning is a fall time service, not a winter coming into a spring service.

          We really need to know more about the gutter guy to make real helpful suggestions.

          Originally Posted by BigSnakeSituation View Post

          Offer gutter cleaning for a nominal fee. Canvass neighborhoods door to door.
          He'll have the opportunity to do inspections and give on the spot quotes.

          You're on point with this one. It's total worth keeping some gutter guards on hand. I'm willing to bet the margins on gutter guard sales & installation are greater per liner foot than gutters themselves.Once you factor in time, that is.

          I'm not sure if it was this forum or not but a tree service guy offered free mulch as a gateway to ask you need a free limbs cut down. I see the same thing available here.

          1. Offer (free) or low cost gutter cleaning
          2. Up sell with gutter guards and or gutter repair
          3. Canvass the neighborhood

          Sadly, i know this works because many of homeowners tricked me into install gutter guards while I was on the roof if they ran to the local box store to them up. How dumb was I.BTW, this was years before I found this site or even knew what up selling is.
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  • Profile picture of the author pplicon
    @Jason... I totally forgot about bandit signs! Thank you for that!

    I've also suggested that he check out a few networking groups on MeetUp, but he says he'd rather go to new social bars and hit the happy hour and network. He's definitley one of the more candid biz owners I've talked with.


    @James, if I can get his phone ringing, and we do work out a long term plan, I am open to both the Bob Ross method (getting him to pass on referrals to help fill the 9x12 )
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    He mainly relies on a few big commercial contractors to refer him work,
    So is this guy just an installer or is he an actual gutter company. From what I see in your post I'm guessing he's more of an installer as he's relied on others getting clients for him and depending on them to pass along the business for the installs to him.

    Do you know if he does residential gutters or is he mainly new commercial construction.

    Think to yourself, is he really a business man or just an installer who thinks he's a business man. The fact that he's let it get to the point of selling his boat make me think he's just another "installer" who knows nothing of being a business. If this is the case you're in for troubles and a very big headache of a client.
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    • Profile picture of the author pplicon
      @Russ I asked him what his USP is, and he stated that what sets him apart from his competitors, is that he's an Owner and Installer. He took pride in the fact that, it is HE that picks up the phone and not a receptionist or secretary. Most of his work is residential, even though he can take on light commercial jobs.

      *** as a side note, he's a good friend of a good friend who heard I can do that "internet thigamagic", and he offered to compensate me if I sit down with him, and "use my computer smarts to help him get the phone ringing." The fact that he's been in business for 20+ years lets me know he's credible. Dude was damn near in tears, telling me that the only other year that it was this rough for him was in '08. I feel compelled to help cause when I caught on fire a few years back, he donated a nice sum to help cover my bills until I got back on my feet.
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      • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
        Originally Posted by pplicon View Post

        @Russ I asked him what his USP is, and he stated that what sets him apart from his competitors, is that he's an Owner and Installer. He took pride in the fact that, it is HE that picks up the phone and not a receptionist or secretary. Most of his work is residential, even though he can take on light commercial jobs.

        *** as a side note, he's a good friend of a good friend who heard I can do that "internet thigamagic", and he offered to compensate me if I sit down with him, and "use my computer smarts to help him get the phone ringing." The fact that he's been in business for 20+ years lets me know he's credible. Dude was damn near in tears, telling me that the only other year that it was this rough for him was in '08. I feel compelled to help cause when I caught on fire a few years back, he donated a nice sum to help cover my bills until I got back on my feet.
        Pplicon,
        If it were me, i would do a handful of things.
        # 1 - Get bandit signs out like Jason Suggested. Order 500 signs and get them all up over a 3 to 5 day window. Send traffic to web URL and or Phone.
        Yellow Signs with black letters i have found converts best.

        # 2 - Bob Ross "M3" that will take you 2 weeks to get produced and mailed but i would be trying to get 10,000 pieces out via 2 or 3 mailings as fast as possible.

        # 3 - Create a 15 point Gutter Inspection with a great leave behind. Start driving around and knocking on Highly Probable Doors via a Truck Inspection.

        # 4 - Create a Kick Ass Referral system to implement into the new customer acquisition to continue long term growth.

        Just my 2 cents..
        Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Hey pplicon,

        All things set aside, ( Him helping you and being a friend of a friend, etc.) he's an installer and he's not being truthful with himself about it. He may indeed be set up as a business but he's not acting like it's a business and this is the pitfall many installers fall into.

        He'll never have more work then he can personally handle and that's OK if that's his goal but the truth is that's a job not a business.

        This means that his marketing could easily be way to expensive and wasted as soon as he's booked out for more then a couple weeks.

        What happens, "IF" the marketing creates a situation where he's answering the phone all day preventing him from completing his job on time, or missing important details?

        His USP isn't a USP at all because it's no different then most of his competitors and those who can't tout that as a their USP are the ones taking all the business.

        Same day gutter systems is a USP, not I'm the owner and installer.

        So I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't have time to fluff it up for you so sorry if it comes across that way.

        Now you said he does mostly residential work, do you know if he also does light carpentry work as well? Like repairing the fasia boards that gutters are attached too?

        Does he only do 5 inch gutters or can he also do boxed gutters "if" boxed gutters are in his geographical area.

        BrashImpact's ideas are good but I fear #1 and #3 are totally outside his budget as you mentioned he's considering selling his personal boat to float himself until things pick up.

        #2 The 15 point gutter inspection is a great idea and I'd expand on that. Additionally I'd point out the signs and symptoms that potential gutter problems are causing that home owners might not realize are a result of a gutter problem.

        I'm pretty sure the reason he's slow is because the roofers who hand him work are slow, ask him and find out, or get more information from him. Is he doing new construction or remodeling.

        Originally Posted by pplicon View Post

        @Russ I asked him what his USP is, and he stated that what sets him apart from his competitors, is that he's an Owner and Installer. He took pride in the fact that, it is HE that picks up the phone and not a receptionist or secretary. Most of his work is residential, even though he can take on light commercial jobs.

        *** as a side note, he's a good friend of a good friend who heard I can do that "internet thigamagic", and he offered to compensate me if I sit down with him, and "use my computer smarts to help him get the phone ringing." The fact that he's been in business for 20+ years lets me know he's credible. Dude was damn near in tears, telling me that the only other year that it was this rough for him was in '08. I feel compelled to help cause when I caught on fire a few years back, he donated a nice sum to help cover my bills until I got back on my feet.
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        • Profile picture of the author mojo1
          This is a perfect case study for why relying on word of mouth or one single referral source
          without even a small marketing system in place could spell disaster for a business.
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      • Profile picture of the author misterme
        I have to say... you ever hear if they shuffled all the money around that in six months the wealthy would have all the money back again because they know what to do with it? I think no matter what you do for this guy as well as you may do it, it's just going to be fumbled once it's in his hands.

        Maybe the best way to help is to hook him up with some people that can help.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by misterme View Post

          I have to say... you ever hear if they shuffled all the money around that in six months the wealthy would have all the money back again because they know what to do with it? I think no matter what you do for this guy as well as you may do it, it's just going to be fumbled once it's in his hands.

          Maybe the best way to help is to hook him up with some people that can help.
          This line post earlier "I've also suggested that he check out a few networking groups on MeetUp, but he says he'd rather go to new social bars and hit the happy hour and network. He's definitley one of the more candid biz owners I've talked with" says it all actually.

          You can help him fix the avenue he gets work, its not your job to fix the rest!
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          • Profile picture of the author misterme
            "I've also suggested that he check out a few networking groups on MeetUp, but he says he'd rather go to new social bars and hit the happy hour and network."

            Oh well then. You did try to steer him to help. You did all you could. The above suggests deeper issues with this guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author pplicon
    @Russ he also stated that he's been contacted by G/O Digital (which is Gannett owned). And was really interested in whatever they offer in terms of social media management and getting on the 1st page of G. In my mind, I'm like "dude, what the f*ck do you need a FB page for?"
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  • Profile picture of the author pplicon
    @Russ I didn't take it personally at all. You're giving me the real, which in turn will allow me to give him the real! No disrespect taken at all. I totally agree w/ you on all points.

    Just feel bad for dude, and wanna help, along with get some experience under my belt and the compensation helps.

    You're right in that he has a J-O-B, and may have to examine his entire business model. And I never thought about turning the faucet on, but not having enough buckets to carry the water.

    I will suggest what we've all shared and see what direction he wants to take.

    The one thing I love about this forum reminds me of a saying of one of my old mentors... "One year with an uncommon mentor, will shave off 10 years of frustation and struggle."
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by pplicon View Post

      Just feel bad for dude, and wanna help, along with get some experience under my belt and the compensation helps.
      Don't feel bad. Its not your fault or your problem. Allowing yourself to
      feel bad will most likely cause you to make bad decisions.

      Ever hear of the saying "you can not teach an old dog new tricks?"

      There is a reason that saying exists. 20+ years in "business" AND he doesn't
      know how to hardly work a computer.

      My business experience says that is a disaster waiting to happen.
      A time suck and most likely will wind up leaving a bad taste in your mouth.

      But maybe that is a good thing for you.It took me a long time to figure
      out who I could help vrs who said they wanted my help but
      either fought me every step of the way, or just asked for help with
      every little thing, never learning, never moving forward ...

      If this was 15 years ago, I most likely would have went out of my way
      to help ... Now my advice is ... give him some verbal advise and see if he chooses
      to follow any of it ( for real follow it, not just say he will - Make him do something ) ... then help him. Otherwise get out of dodge as quickly as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
    For IMMEDIATE calls:

    Post and add each day on craigslist
    Yard Signs in high traffic areas & neighborhoods
    Door Hangers- pay a college kid $50 to hit an affluent neighborhood
    Radio - Really effective, but really expensive

    Down the road:

    Direct mail
    Newspaper circular
    Website optimization & SEO, etc.

    Eventually he'll need to think more long term but those methods alone should get him business right away.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I wonder what his average job is worth?
      This tells us what he can invest to get a customer.

      And I presume he has been a sub-contractor
      to the main contractors.

      If he has been a suby and his work suppliers are not getting work,
      then he will have to go after another market
      and maybe even do other work like leaf guards to stop water overflow and flooding.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        If he's been a sub he's charging around $1.50 per lineal foot for 5 inch aluminum gutters which is pretty much the only size used for residential.

        I recall from my contractor days that the average gutter job retail was anywhere from $800 to $1200 tops. That's the average residential homes of course some or lower and same are bigger.

        In many cases I as the roofing contractor would throw in the gutters for free because I knew I was only getting charged about 1.50 per foot but was charging $4.00 per foot.

        So a 200 foot gutter job was costing me 300 bucks, a cost easily built into my roofing job but delivered a retail value of $800.

        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        I wonder what his average job is worth?
        This tells us what he can invest to get a customer.

        And I presume he has been a sub-contractor
        to the main contractors.

        If he has been a suby and his work suppliers are not getting work,
        then he will have to go after another market
        and maybe even do other work like leaf guards to stop water overflow and flooding.

        Best,
        Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
      Banned
      First thing that comes to my mind is...."Motivate previous customers to "REFER" new customers!"

      How? Make up some "Discount Cards" with, "$50 Cash for each home owner referral"!

      You could make spaces for old-customers to list people they think would want new gutters...and if any turn into jobs, they get 50 bux!

      Also....go talk to owners of Independent Home Improvement and Hardware Stores (ACE Hardware has owners who can make decisions)....tell them YOU will give them a Percentage of each Gutter Installation.

      And....2 guys in my town talked the owners of our 2 "Garage Door" cos to offer "Gutters" as an Add-On.

      And...as an interim income-earner....visit used car lots and offer to;
      1) Re-New the Headlights ($35 for 2)
      2) Re-New Plastic on Doors ($5ea), mirrors ($10ea) and bumpers ($25)
      3) Remove Cigarette Smoke and other smells from interiors ($35)

      Vehicles sell faster and for $500 & more when they are "Spiffy".

      Don Alm.....marketing guy
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        That is the obvious choice, however if he acted as a sub they aren't really his customers and in most sub agreements it's stated that the client is exclusive to the contractor who the customer is paying and sub isn't allowed to solicit the customer in any way.

        Another reason it's a job and not a business.

        Originally Posted by midasman09 View Post

        First thing that comes to my mind is...."Motivate previous customers to "REFER" new customers!"

        How? Make up some "Discount Cards" with, "$50 Cash for each home owner referral"!

        You could make spaces for old-customers to list people they think would want new gutters...and if any turn into jobs, they get 50 bux!

        Also....go talk to owners of Independent Home Improvement and Hardware Stores (ACE Hardware has owners who can make decisions)....tell them YOU will give them a Percentage of each Gutter Installation.

        And....2 guys in my town talked the owners of our 2 "Garage Door" cos to offer "Gutters" as an Add-On.

        And...as an interim income-earner....visit used car lots and offer to;
        1) Re-New the Headlights ($35 for 2)
        2) Re-New Plastic on Doors ($5ea), mirrors ($10ea) and bumpers ($25)
        3) Remove Cigarette Smoke and other smells from interiors ($35)

        Vehicles sell faster and for $500 & more when they are "Spiffy".

        Don Alm.....marketing guy
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          That is the obvious choice, however if he acted as a sub they aren't really his customers and in most sub agreements it's stated that the client is exclusive to the contractor who the customer is paying and sub isn't allowed to solicit the customer in any way.

          Another reason it's a job and not a business.

          That's true Russ, but as you said in another post about roofing jobs, you'd quick canvass the neighbors and pull out another couple of jobs in no time flat. That is something he could easily be doing for gutter jobs without violating his subcontractor agreement.

          IF...he really wanted the work.

          As you and Ken have pointed out in this thread, there's a reason why this guy has remained "stuck in first gear" after 20 years in the business.

          He IS the problem.

          The jobs? Heck, they are everywhere.

          He should have referrals from realtors, neighbors and anyone in related businesses, coming out of his ears. But, he's been content to sit back and wait for people to hand him things.
          In their time and on their terms.

          You guys have laid it out very smartly here. Folks on this forum who want to sell to contractors would do well to pay attention.

          Yes, you can fix a business, but rarely, very rarely, can you fix the person running it.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

            That's true Russ, but as you said in another post about roofing jobs, you'd quick canvass the neighbors and pull out another couple of jobs in no time flat. That is something he could easily be doing for gutter jobs without violating his subcontractor agreement.

            IF...he really wanted the work.

            As you and Ken have pointed out in this thread, there's a reason why this guy has remained "stuck in first gear" after 20 years in the business.

            He IS the problem.

            The jobs? Heck, they are everywhere.

            He should have referrals from realtors, neighbors and anyone in related businesses, coming out of his ears. But, he's been content to sit back and wait for people to hand him things.
            In their time and on their terms.

            You guys have laid it out very smartly here. Folks on this forum who want to sell to contractors would do well to pay attention.

            Yes, you can fix a business, but rarely, very rarely, can you fix the person running it.
            You really have to look at the situation in context. Is the guy at fault well kinda. But understand he has made it 20 years getting work from only a few sources. A kin this to having all your online traffic coming from Google and all the sudden it stopped. You are then standing there going "Now what?" I would not consider this guy "Stupid" at all. He had a DAMN good thing going. Things and times change and he has the BRAINS to reach out for help. Again a sign of a not so stupid business man.

            The poor guy is out of his element is all... it happens!
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            • Profile picture of the author BigSnakeSituation
              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              You really have to look at the situation in context. Is the guy at fault well kinda. But understand he has made it 20 years getting work from only a few sources. A kin this to having all your online traffic coming from Google and all the sudden it stopped. You are then standing there going "Now what?" I would not consider this guy "Stupid" at all. He had a DAMN good thing going. Things and times change and he has the BRAINS to reach out for help. Again a sign of a not so stupid business man.

              The poor guy is out of his element is all... it happens!

              Point well stated. Move to the head of the class.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              I see your point but knowing what I know about the construction industry I'm pretty sure he's acted as a sub for most if not all of the past 20 years. Which means he's more an installer and not really a construction business.

              All the subs I ever worked with over my 20+ years as a remodeling contractor had multiple relationships with many contractors and the biggest flaw of only being a sub is that you place the control of how much work you do or don't get in some one else, just like your Google traffic analogy. That's not to smart when we really look at that way is it?

              That being said, the construction industry has been on an upswing for several months now so I'm not sure what's going on with his situation but perhaps the builders he works/worked for have a lot of unsold properties and are holding back on building until they sell their existing homes? Dunno.

              Like you pointed out, it is good he's reached out for help and hopefully the OP can help him but when we hear that he needs to make the phone ring this week it's not a good situation.

              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              You really have to look at the situation in context. Is the guy at fault well kinda. But understand he has made it 20 years getting work from only a few sources. A kin this to having all your online traffic coming from Google and all the sudden it stopped. You are then standing there going "Now what?" I would not consider this guy "Stupid" at all. He had a DAMN good thing going. Things and times change and he has the BRAINS to reach out for help. Again a sign of a not so stupid business man.

              The poor guy is out of his element is all... it happens!
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              • Profile picture of the author kessinger11
                @pplicon Here's a link to one of Michael Senoff's interviews (PDF transcript) that I believe you will find insightful. Michael interviews/consults a painter who has a similar problem to your gutter installer and details several brilliant ideas that could help him build a solid, long-lasting business.

                http://www.hardtofindseminars.com/Tr...er_Consult.pdf

                Hope this helps.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                I see your point but knowing what I know about the construction industry I'm pretty sure he's acted as a sub for most if not all of the past 20 years. Which means he's more an installer and not really a construction business.

                All the subs I ever worked with over my 20+ years as a remodeling contractor had multiple relationships with many contractors and the biggest flaw of only being a sub is that you place the control of how much work you do or don't get in some one else, just like your Google traffic analogy. That's not to smart when we really look at that way is it?

                That being said, the construction industry has been on an upswing for several months now so I'm not sure what's going on with his situation but perhaps the builders he works/worked for have a lot of unsold properties and are holding back on building until they sell their existing homes? Dunno.

                Like you pointed out, it is good he's reached out for help and hopefully the OP can help him but when we hear that he needs to make the phone ring this week it's not a good situation.
                Apparently 20 years ago, this guy saw that there was a need for "A gutter guy" He filled that need. He aligned himself with 3 4 or 5 companies, and became the goto gutter guy. His business carried 20 years or so based on those initial relationships that he built. The construction industry at best for a gutter guy would not be all that stable. hence the need to BE a contractor and seek employment as such.

                This guy didn't HAVE to do that. He through a stroke of genius, or by accident built a better mouse trap. A long lasting mouse trap.

                There are without question factors that have not worked in his favor. Obvious in the fact he is basically out of work. If I had to sit here and put a finger on it blindly, I would say that there is another company or companies that took the pieces to his mouse trap right from under him.

                It probably wasn't the entire trap that got removed, it was probably piece by piece. He is chalking it up to slowing down ( this would be the indicator to my theory ) The fact is 20 years is a dang long time. Sons have taken over for fathers, and they have friends they want to feed the work to. Companies have foremen and they have friends they want to give work to. and so on and so on.

                The fact that this guy made it 20yrs is just short of really, if not truly impressive. You know the industry, and think about that a second. For 20 years this guy did not scratch around job to job. He had a nice flow.

                Does he now need to change up the game, well sure he does. Does he need to look back at the last 20 years and think he did something wrong? uh NO. He really needs to look at the past 20 years as a freaking blessing, and move forward. Use that 20 years of stability as a base.

                Apparently there is no financial base ( and that is a whole other discussion ) So the question becomes.. how do you use 20 years of "Commercial" experience to leverage a new need to do residential/commercial work yesterday?

                There are missed "regular everyday business model" cues all over with this. No referrals, No truck identification ( 20 years of branding right out the door ) No method of advertising - basically nothing. Its like starting over.

                But to find that 20yr thread to leverage is the key. And at this point it comes down to a tag line.

                "Servicing the Areas Premiere Home Builders for 20yrs"

                "I've been putting water where people want it since 1984"

                "I'll be dammed if I cant fixed your gutters"

                I'm bad with tag lines, I hire people for that! ha ha
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                • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                  Savidge,

                  I totally get what your saying, your right some one else probably came in.

                  What most likely happen IF some one came in is that he got underbid and the new construction general contractors threw him under the bus.

                  GC's are good for that because every little bit to increase the bottom line is what they'll do, it's just business and nothing personal.

                  Cutting through everything else the reality is that he created a great job for himself 20+ years ago and doesn't have a retirement plan.

                  He's in the spot where he has to consider selling his boat to make ends meet!

                  From a strictly business perspective I don't walk away from those types of prospects I RUN and yes despite the OP's feelings he should run too!

                  Hopefully he'll gets that by now because I've been pretty blunt about how I think the situation is.

                  From a human perspective I'd tell the dude to find a job just like every one on this forum who's been around the block tells people who come here with posts about needing to make X amount right now or they'll loose their house or car or whatever. What are they told? Get a job first!

                  He's gonna have to drum up at minimum 3 full gutters jobs per week to make a living (forget profit) and that's if he's working alone which is unlikely because most gutter jobs require at least two people.

                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  Apparently 20 years ago, this guy saw that there was a need for "A gutter guy" He filled that need. He aligned himself with 3 4 or 5 companies, and became the goto gutter guy. His business carried 20 years or so based on those initial relationships that he built. The construction industry at best for a gutter guy would not be all that stable. hence the need to BE a contractor and seek employment as such.

                  This guy didn't HAVE to do that. He through a stroke of genius, or by accident built a better mouse trap. A long lasting mouse trap.

                  There are without question factors that have not worked in his favor. Obvious in the fact he is basically out of work. If I had to sit here and put a finger on it blindly, I would say that there is another company or companies that took the pieces to his mouse trap right from under him.

                  It probably wasn't the entire trap that got removed, it was probably piece by piece. He is chalking it up to slowing down ( this would be the indicator to my theory ) The fact is 20 years is a dang long time. Sons have taken over for fathers, and they have friends they want to feed the work to. Companies have foremen and they have friends they want to give work to. and so on and so on.

                  The fact that this guy made it 20yrs is just short of really, if not truly impressive. You know the industry, and think about that a second. For 20 years this guy did not scratch around job to job. He had a nice flow.

                  Does he now need to change up the game, well sure he does. Does he need to look back at the last 20 years and think he did something wrong? uh NO. He really needs to look at the past 20 years as a freaking blessing, and move forward. Use that 20 years of stability as a base.

                  Apparently there is no financial base ( and that is a whole other discussion ) So the question becomes.. how do you use 20 years of "Commercial" experience to leverage a new need to do residential/commercial work yesterday?

                  There are missed "regular everyday business model" cues all over with this. No referrals, No truck identification ( 20 years of branding right out the door ) No method of advertising - basically nothing. Its like starting over.

                  But to find that 20yr thread to leverage is the key. And at this point it comes down to a tag line.

                  "Servicing the Areas Premiere Home Builders for 20yrs"

                  "I've been putting water where people want it since 1984"

                  "I'll be dammed if I cant fixed your gutters"

                  I'm bad with tag lines, I hire people for that! ha ha
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  • Profile picture of the author djhickory
    You came for for advice, but seems like discouraging coments to me
    this is all very simple

    think of name

    get business license + contractors license ( if he hasnt got one allready )

    register domain name 9 years with godaddy

    build nice site
    with lots of content

    scrape Craigslist for Roofers / Presure washing Compaies ( they all pressure wash roofs )/ Even Painting Compaines( they all paint facia's )/ any kinda service related emails
    then other classified ad sites, forums etc

    send them all a link to your site, offering an affiliate service,
    make sure you put your UNSCRUSCIBE HERE link
    to avoid the spam laws

    you can post ad's on cl to and track with cltracker, with your own domains, and they wont get ghosted ( but CL IS DEAD ) sorry you missed z boat

    Network with new home builders like KB HOMES , SHEA HOMES, ETC
    Build a List !!!!!

    Buy a 800 and local number with tosable digits
    monitor all calls, or do a survey, and call the numbers back a week later when your billing your client, and just tell the homeowner, your doing a Survey on work completed on there home, tell them your the one that refered them, and you want to make sure there doing a good job, HONESTY, kills it,
    trust me on this one

    now that you have extra tim e

    buy 10 domains in the biggest cities on cl, find a local rinky dink guy that, is just starting out, and make a new domain for each new client

    i did this for three hard wood floor guys in southern cali
    just monitoring all there calls is a full time fu ken job
    that's why i opt to just do a survey at end of month or week, witchever plan client is on
    if they say they want a cheaper route, or don't want to do it anymore, just sell your services to his competitor, and and reroute the TOS #s to the new GUY

    Posting on CL will help Rank your Site on Google and others, as long as there is good content, if it's just a clickable ad,it wont get indexed, because there is nothing to index
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  • Profile picture of the author pplicon
    Plan to meet with him again over the weekend, and will find out the ins and outs of what other gutters he provides besides seamless, and to find out if he does any other work in addition to craft. Also to find out what he charges and nets per project.

    How do you all properly dicover your clients USP? Because if I do end up helping him, I would like to incorporate that into the Craigslist ads, a new business card and a flyer/direct mail piece?

    Thanks to all of you guys for your collective input. You have given me a more professional overview of how to properly interview, take on and service a client. I'm simply used to selling a mobile site, then sitting back and collecting hosting residuals without too much interacting with the owner after the initail convo.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by pplicon View Post

      Plan to meet with him again over the weekend, and will find out the ins and outs of what other gutters he provides besides seamless, and to find out if he does any other work in addition to craft. Also to find out what he charges and nets per project.

      How do you all properly dicover your clients USP? Because if I do end up helping him, I would like to incorporate that into the Craigslist ads, a new business card and a flyer/direct mail piece?

      Thanks to all of you guys for your collective input. You have given me a more professional overview of how to properly interview, take on and service a client. I'm simply used to selling a mobile site, then sitting back and collecting hosting residuals without too much interacting with the owner after the initail convo.

      Ok I sell Satellite internet. My GOTO option is bandit signs. ( Yellow with black letters was definitely good advice ) My second goto is tear off number 8.5x11's posted anywhere and everywhere. I tend to design these more in the orange and black range. The 3rd thing.. get the TRUCK decaled, NOT the trailer.

      If you are going to place the Bandit signs on Posts try using these Gardner Bender 1/4 in. Black Plastic Masonry Staples for RG-6 and RG-59 Coaxial Cables (25-Pack)-PCS-1600 at The Home Depot You want to make sure you get the masonry ones. One on top and bottom of the sign and they will stay there forever.

      Find the 18x24 Bandit signs, for me and I can not tell you why, bigger is not better. I personally make my own, but even before that, I always did 1 side only. 3 lines of text max "Gutter Service" and "Phone number" INCLUDE the area code! and a middle line like "Fast Free Estimates" Don't get fancy with the text and do not use italics.

      Be sure to Decal the truck. I have 5 trucks running around, and that is my #1 source of contact. 2nd is the signs, 3rd is the tear offs, and 4th is the internet. ( and I have #1 listings all the major keywords - But keep in mind I sell internet, so if you are looking to get it, you might not have it! )

      Hope that Helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I've also suggested that he check out a few networking groups on MeetUp, but he says he'd rather go to new social bars and hit the happy hour and network. He's definitley one of the more candid biz owners I've talked with.
    Yeah I missed that, not good.
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