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Can I help him?

by abbot Banned
26 replies
I just got off the phone with one of my clients that I have had for a very long time. I have done a lot of work for this guy and have his trust 100%.

He's never given me any resistance, just gave me the card # and said keep me updated. I've had free roam of finances for the most part.

However this phone call was a little bit different. It was because he's objecting to my SEO plan.

This client owns a print and mail business. They print everything and anything...banners, business cards, catalogs etc...

Proposal total came to just shy of $1k/mo and was a solid plan with great potential.

He then told me that for every $15 spent on marketing he needs to make $150.00 to see a positive return. (thats 10 times the amount)

Said his average client spends roughly $1,000 year with him. He does have six figure/year clients here and there.

I'm just giving you details here...


So if my math is correct...

1k/mo (marketing expenses) x 10 = 10,000/mo

1k/yr (average customer value) divided by 12 months in a year = $83.00/mo

10,000 divided by $83 = 120.4 clients/ month to see a return....

I call bullshit.

He says he needs to see 10x returns because of low profit margin, equipment costs etc.

Whats wrong with this picture? please help... because Ive never been so stumped...

Perhaps my post sounds defensive. It might be because I'm having a brain fart. Or because It caught me by surprise. Ive never NOT been able to show a client a return with my marketing.

Insight on this situation and my math would be awesome guys.


Thanks
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Some pressure or new data has come to your customer from outside.

    "Where'd this come from?" would be my first question. Said in a nurturing, open way.

    If he questions "What do you mean?", you can say, "We've done a lot of work together. I thought you were happy with it. I have never heard you say anything like this before. It must have come from somewhere. Where?"

    You can go through the numbers with him, too. Get him to do the calculations. Come to his own conclusions.

    If they say it, it's true. If you say it, you have to defend it.

    But the big thing for you to do is uncover what changed. If someone else is feeding him (mis)information, you need to know about it.


    As for the math...you say your proposal was for just under $1000 a month?

    So that means he wants $10K/month in revenue, right?

    And his average client spends $1000/year with him...that's 120 customers to pay for it over the year by my math. 10 a month. Customers, not leads--and conversion is out of your control. You need 10 customers a month to pay for the marketing. That's a whole lotta leads you're going to have to be sending his way for $1000.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Some pressure or new data has come to your customer from outside.

      "Where'd this come from?" would be my first question. Said in a nurturing, open way.

      If he questions "What do you mean?", you can say, "We've done a lot of work together. I thought you were happy with it. I have never heard you say anything like this before. It must have come from somewhere. Where?"

      You can go through the numbers with him, too. Get him to do the calculations. Come to his own conclusions.

      If they say it, it's true. If you say it, you have to defend it.

      But the big thing for you to do is uncover what changed. If someone else is feeding him (mis)information, you need to know about it.


      As for the math...you say your proposal was for just under $1000 a month?

      So that means he wants $10K/month in revenue, right?

      And his average client spends $1000/year with him...that's 120 customers to pay for it over the year by my math. 10 a month. Customers, not leads--and conversion is out of your control. You need 10 customers a month to pay for the marketing. That's a whole lotta leads you're going to have to be sending his way for $1000.

      10k a month needs 120 customers a MONTH... Right?

      This whole thing doesn't add up?

      Is it even possible he's telling the truth about his margins? I'm beginning to think not...?

      How could a business survive with those standards?

      And its not like he's a small one man shop. He has 10 employees and just did a 2M buyout acquisition.

      It just doesn't make sense that he would lie to me since I'm currently doing other avenues of marketing for him.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        No Jason is right.

        He needs 10 customers a month from you.

        He is telling you he has a 10% requirement to see positive return.

        You propose $1000 per month so he needs $10,000 per month which if average customer is worth $1000 a year would be 10 a month.

        Another way if you still can't see this.

        $1000 per month campaign from you is $12,000 per annum.

        He needs 10x this which is $120,000 per annum.

        Average customer is $1000

        So $120,000 divided by $1000 is 120 customers per annum.

        120 customers per annum is 10 per month.

        See this?

        I will tell you what I believe to have happened.

        He has got himself a half decent accountant which he never had before.

        Dan
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          To know if you can help him, you need to know how many of the people who land somewhere on his site contact him and of those how many he converts.

          Then, of course, you need to have a fairly good idea of how many more visitors your SEO can deliver.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Yeah I agree with Jason and Jimbo, somethings going on. I didn't even finish reading the original post and I was thinking that some one's got his ear.

        So to clarify, he says he needs a 15X return for every 10 bucks he spends on "your" campaign or is this as you eluded to, his over all marketing budget?

        As Jason mentioned, find out if you can learn where this is coming from so you know how to help him. For eample, if it's his accountants the first thing I'd do is find out where he could be wasting money in other areas of his marketing and because he's trusted you so long move that money to your services instead.
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        • Profile picture of the author abbot
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          Yeah I agree with Jason and Jimbo, somethings going on. I didn't even finish reading the original post and I was thinking that some one's got his ear.

          So to clarify, he says he needs a 15X return for every 10 bucks he spends on "your" campaign or is this as you eluded to, his over all marketing budget?

          As Jason mentioned, find out if you can learn where this is coming from so you know how to help him. For eample, if it's his accountants the first thing I'd do is find out where he could be wasting money in other areas of his marketing and because he's trusted you so long move that money to your services instead.
          It's entirely possible.

          Yes in his words exactly..

          "For every $15 we spend, we have to get $150 otherwise its just a downward spiral"

          "...and this proposal is taking up about 3/4 of our budget..."

          I have done every bit of pre-qualifying I can think of. He is well educated but I just don't think he 'understands' what's actually going on, what SEO ACTUALLY is.

          Just beacuse I'll show him something and 2 minutes later in conversation he will make statements that just make no sense and show his complete lack of understanding. Up until now it didn't really matter because it was email marketing. And regardless weather he understood what was happening or not we were turning leads and making money.

          Now I feel that it does matter because he made a statement along the lines of ..

          "...maybe we shouldn't be going to new customers..I think going to our pre-existing customers is a better option..."

          I can't say I disagree with him, because I know there's money there too. But what he doesn't seem to understand is that the people pecking at their keyboards, searching for these terms online are people that are in need of his services! Yet he proceeds to say that advertising in a local business catalog is an option...

          It's like he's short circuiting and not processing things entirely. Hes say he understands but I know he doesn't. He has no idea how much money he's losing by not being optimized.

          The problem is...I'm just unable to convey it to him properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Not really sure why anyone thinks expecting 10 customers (not leads) for $1000 is bad.

    At our dealership the whole marketing budget ends up at $200/sale or so.

    And most businesses make far less. Do you really have clients that will pay you more than $100 per sale (not lead)? If so please tell me so I can avoid buying their products.

    Think about it this way how many products out there are selling for much less than $100? If these people were paying $100 per sale, lifetime sale or not, they would not be making money.

    The OP messed up on the math and was freaking out thinking he needed 120 per month. So hopefully now that he knows it is 10 he will be fine.

    I think a 10x ROI (Revenue) is fine if not a bit low. But a lot depends on margins. A business with lower margins and high prices will need a much higher multiple.

    People seem to forget that revenue does not equal profit. Of course the advantage for most people selling advertising and marketing is that most business owners don't get that either. We for example could never spend $1,000 to see even $10,000. We would be losing money. So even a 10X ROI would be bad for us. While on an info product with near zero costs a 2X ROI could mean massive profits.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

      No Jason is right.

      He needs 10 customers a month from you.

      He is telling you he has a 10% requirement to see positive return.

      You propose $1000 per month so he needs $10,000 per month which if average customer is worth $1000 a year would be 10 a month.

      Another way if you still can't see this.

      $1000 per month campaign from you is $12,000 per annum.

      He needs 10x this which is $120,000 per annum.

      Average customer is $1000

      So $120,000 divided by $1000 is 120 customers per annum.

      120 customers per annum is 10 per month.

      See this?

      I will tell you what I believe to have happened.

      He has got himself a half decent accountant which he never had before.

      Dan
      That makes much more sense. I suppose throwing the numbers together quickly was not a good idea. This will be much easier to pitch to him.

      It's funny you bring up the accountant...because a few months ago he was talking about how he just brought on 2 new accountants to straighten out his books.

      At any rate thank you for the reply, and straightening my head out.


      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Not really sure why anyone thinks expecting 10 customers (not leads) for $1000 is bad.

      At our dealership the whole marketing budget ends up at $200/sale or so.

      And most businesses make far less. Do you really have clients that will pay you more than $100 per sale (not lead)? If so please tell me so I can avoid buying their products.

      Think about it this way how many products out there are selling for much less than $100? If these people were paying $100 per sale, lifetime sale or not, they would not be making money.

      The OP messed up on the math and was freaking out thinking he needed 120 per month. So hopefully now that he knows it is 10 he will be fine.

      I think a 10x ROI (Revenue) is fine if not a bit low. But a lot depends on margins. A business with lower margins and high prices will need a much higher multiple.

      People seem to forget that revenue does not equal profit. Of course the advantage for most people selling advertising and marketing is that most business owners don't get that either. We for example could never spend $1,000 to see even $10,000. We would be losing money. So even a 10X ROI would be bad for us. While on an info product with near zero costs a 2X ROI could mean massive profits.
      Aaron,

      I don't think he really broke down the math part of it during our conversation. He mentioned "this would be taking up over 3/4 of the budget."...so I'm going to assume he was scared of the number.

      I'm going to press him again for the sale, pitch the numbers, and throw in a bonus for being a long time customer..a 'one time deal' kinda thing, and hope it sticks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
        Originally Posted by abbot View Post

        Aaron,

        I don't think he really broke down the math part of it during our conversation. He mentioned "this would be taking up over 3/4 of the budget."...so I'm going to assume he was scared of the number.

        I'm going to press him again for the sale, pitch the numbers, and throw in a bonus for being a long time customer..a 'one time deal' kinda thing, and hope it sticks.
        Seems weird he would be talking about a 10X ROI on one hand and budget on the other. Two very different ways to look at marketing/advertising IMO.

        You really need to have a good sit down talk with him. With a pen and paper and in person if possible to show what can be done and find out what you need to deliver to make him comfortable with going forward.

        How much of your $1,000 is management and how much is to pay the PPC?

        You could do a partial refund (% that goes to google) or even full refund guarantee to do risk reversal. If you can deliver that would be worth doing if he is still not willing to leap.
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        • Profile picture of the author abbot
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

          Seems weird he would be talking about a 10X ROI on one hand and budget on the other. Two very different ways to look at marketing/advertising IMO.

          You really need to have a good sit down talk with him. With a pen and paper and in person if possible to show what can be done and find out what you need to deliver to make him comfortable with going forward.

          How much of your $1,000 is management and how much is to pay the PPC?

          You could do a partial refund (% that goes to google) or even full refund guarantee to do risk reversal. If you can deliver that would be worth doing if he is still not willing to leap.
          No PPC here all organic. I could move on the price but I don't believe in it so I'll refrain.

          So when I say "budget" i'm talking about his marketing budget in general. Which seems a bit low to me anyway....especially for a company that just spent 2M on an acquisition and is NOW looking for another 1M+ acquisition.

          I'm sure this is all tying into the equation. Before this was never a problem. He came to me looking for a plan of expansion, so I gave him one and he didn't like the $1k/mo number.

          I explained to him that there's no "in between" when it comes to organic seo..you're either at the top, getting the traffic or you're not. Those that are on top are investing just like you should be..This time it was more of a 'soft' objection meaning he agreed but re-routed to

          "I think we need to make sure the website is in working order first then reopen this and take baby steps"

          I got pretty upset but held it in...

          His websites ARE in order and converting and have been for months...he knows this...or maybe he really doesn't? I'll have to get some proof to clear that objection.

          I explained that there's no 'baby steps' its either you go all at once or don't go at all. (that's not really true but I'm trying to push the sale here he wants to expand..he HAS to go...right? .... not...)



          I think his biggest concern is that we're going to take up almost all of his budget leaving him with little to play with, and thats too big of a gamble to him...relying on one source of leads and all.

          So do I revisit with nailing down his budget and what he IS comfortable working with? then see what I can do for him for that $$ each month?

          Or do I go back in and explain that advertising on the radio, and local magazines is probably yielding him the lowest response possible?

          He's a franchise company, and kept using that as his backer...."well they don't really use internet marketing much"

          I showed him the search numbers, showed him PROOF of people searching for HIS SERVICES and it's like everything i showed him .... that $1,000/mo trumped it all....

          Normally I wouldnt care...I would press him for the sale and if he bit good, if not he's wasting my time. But I want to keep him under my wing if you know what I mean. If that means plying "good consultant" and rolling over for the bone...I will. I don't want to but i will.

          I don't think Ive ever been so lost over a 12k/yr client before...lol but I see lots of potential here
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    How can you paint him the picture of how much he is leaving on the table by not being optimized? And explain optimization/SEO so you're certain he understands it thoroughly.

    Maybe explore why he wants to put the $1000 a year new customer acquisition (if he is making that assumption that that is what your SEO offer will bring) on the back burner. To him it may mean more time and resources and man hours setting up the new accounts and artwork...

    Perhaps it is much more cost, time, resource effective for him to do more for existing customers and that's where he wants to direct more of his marketing dollars and resources.

    Also, perhaps he wants to focus on getting more bigger fish.

    I think he has strategic ideas you and he have not fully discussed
    and need to get on the same page for his comprehensive marketing
    and business plan.

    Is he nearing retirement? Wanting to build value to sell the company?
    Just going for more aggressive growth and better ROI?


    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
    Originally Posted by abbot View Post


    1k/yr (average customer value) divided by 12 months in a year = $83.00/mo

    10,000 divided by $83 = 120.4 clients/ month to see a return....

    I call bullshit.

    He says he needs to see 10x returns because of low profit margin, equipment costs etc.

    Whats wrong with this picture? please help... because Ive never been so stumped...

    Perhaps my post sounds defensive. It might be because I'm having a brain fart. Or because It caught me by surprise. Ive never NOT been able to show a client a return with my marketing.

    Insight on this situation and my math would be awesome guys.


    Thanks
    Depending on his margins and what his rates are - there's not necessarily large markup & he could be telling you the truth.

    I don't know where you get $1k customer value though... I have a feeling that it's a lot less, and if that's the case he need far more than 10 new customers a month to make it worthwhile.

    Do you know what his bread & butter is? I mean, what is the product that he makes the most profit on? Is it banners? Signs? Try to find out where he profits most and tap into that customer base through FB ads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    So out of his total marketing budge the 1k you quoted him is 75% of that? FAIL on his part I think.

    I don't know the printing space but this doesn't seem right that your proposal of 1k is such a large part of his total overall budget for marketing.

    I think you need to respectfully part ways on this thing because if he's giving off signals that demonstrate that he doesn't understand what your telling him, how do you think it's gonna be when it takes you 45-60 days to actually rank him, and then start seeing results.
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    From what I know from my experience working for a commercial offest printer:

    I was told the industry goal was 15% profit margin. And if you could do that you were doing well.

    They generally "grow" through acquisition. At least around here. A offset printer buys out a mail house. Now they offer mailing. Then they buy out a digital printing business. Now they offer digital printing and all of the web to print functions that go with it. Then they buy out a bindery and now they arent sending items out to be finished, they are finished in-house.

    They also bring in all of the existing accounts.

    Most of them, espeically if they are smaller, can't really compete online where it is all about price. They'll never be/beat Vista Print, etc.

    I don't really know how you are making it work, to be honest. But good for you.

    $1000 is probably pretty accurate. And might even be low...unless he has a lot of one-off customers. If you consider a two or three business card re-order and some letterhead and maybe some brochures, $1000 is about right. If they do mailings, then the value can easily go up to $10K or more, annually.

    I really can't see how you are able to make him a profit at all through what I imagine is local SEO. Especially at $1K per month. Good for you for doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    As Rus pointed out - 1K is 75% of his marketing budget?
    For a company that just did a 2M acquisition and is looking
    to do another 1M acquisition, something does not sound right.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

      From what I know from my experience working for a commercial offest printer:

      I was told the industry goal was 15% profit margin. And if you could do that you were doing well.

      They generally "grow" through acquisition. At least around here. A offset printer buys out a mail house. Now they offer mailing. Then they buy out a digital printing business. Now they offer digital printing and all of the web to print functions that go with it. Then they buy out a bindery and now they arent sending items out to be finished, they are finished in-house.

      They also bring in all of the existing accounts.

      Most of them, espeically if they are smaller, can't really compete online where it is all about price. They'll never be/beat Vista Print, etc.

      I don't really know how you are making it work, to be honest. But good for you.

      $1000 is probably pretty accurate. And might even be low...unless he has a lot of one-off customers. If you consider a two or three business card re-order and some letterhead and maybe some brochures, $1000 is about right. If they do mailings, then the value can easily go up to $10K or more, annually.

      I really can't see how you are able to make him a profit at all through what I imagine is local SEO. Especially at $1K per month. Good for you for doing it.

      Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head.


      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      As Rus pointed out - 1K is 75% of his marketing budget?
      For a company that just did a 2M acquisition and is looking
      to do another 1M acquisition, something does not sound right.
      I'm probably just going to drop the whole case. Everything in the situation sounds fishy. I'll recommend a video professional hd photos of their work be uploaded, and ranked for the selected key terms.

      It will at least give them a bite of the pie and keep the costs much lower.

      Other than that, It's off to look into some customer re-activation and growing his list.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Callaghan
    I read through this thread and didn't see this point so I'll add it in....

    All of the calculations are based on the annual revenue from a new client. But you need to get the client to focus on the lifetime value of the client. They are worth $1k per year, but how many years?

    Maybe they stink and people only stay with them for a year. But if they are reasonably good they should maintain the relationship for at least 3 or 4 years.

    When you factor that in your fees for bringing in a new client are pretty reasonable. Even their new accountant should agree with that math.
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    • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
      Originally Posted by John Callaghan View Post

      I read through this thread and didn't see this point so I'll add it in....

      All of the calculations are based on the annual revenue from a new client. But you need to get the client to focus on the lifetime value of the client. They are worth $1k per year, but how many years?

      Maybe they stink and people only stay with them for a year. But if they are reasonably good they should maintain the relationship for at least 3 or 4 years.

      When you factor that in your fees for bringing in a new client are pretty reasonable. Even their new accountant should agree with that math.
      Aye. And they should get referral business for little cost or less acquisition cost.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      Yeah,

      I appreciate all of the responses. My rates were not bad at all. In fact...I cut him a pretty big break.

      He would have made money no questions asked...

      I ended up meeting with him yesterday and re-proposing. Closed a deal for $2,300 up front and $700/mo.

      I just refocused the attention on what he wanted...customer re-activation with some light video marketing.

      I'm actually glad I didn't press him more, because I'll be able to get more out of him in 6 months or so by revisiting this marketing option.

      He's happy, I'm paid...I can't complain
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        That's Cool cool



        Originally Posted by abbot View Post

        Yeah,

        I appreciate all of the responses. My rates were not bad at all. In fact...I cut him a pretty big break.

        He would have made money no questions asked...

        I ended up meeting with him yesterday and re-proposing. Closed a deal for $2,300 up front and $700/mo.

        I just refocused the attention on what he wanted...customer re-activation with some light video marketing.

        I'm actually glad I didn't press him more, because I'll be able to get more out of him in 6 months or so by revisiting this marketing option.

        He's happy, I'm paid...I can't complain
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I wanted to make the point of the lifetime value too but John Callaghan beat me to it.

    Also another point is there could be an expense he has right now that could be mitigated by the new marketing and its results. Could be he no longer needs the ad spend he has now, or PPC,or adwords, or that with more work he can lower operation costs or realize more gang printing and lower costs. Things of that nature. If so, factor in those savings now going to pure profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Finding out lifetime value per customer, yes thanks for pointing that out.

      As to your other point, any ad spend of the remaining 25% could be evaluated to see if it brings in any sales/new customers.

      Also depending on where that 25% is being spent is important. What if it's some sort of monthly contractual payment that we don't know about, right? Hope it's working but you're out luck on that money. hehe



      If it's just money he's throwing at the proverbial advertising wall and hoping something sticks that's money we can instantly leverage.

      Because we all know that SEO can take awhile to get results I'm looking at what I may be able to accomplish with that 25% immediately.

      Even if he's doing PPC, or Adwords, there's a chance he's really screwing that up. Actually we can almost guarantee the owner is screwing it up. I recently read that most local small business owners are wasting an easy 25% of their ad spend when doing PPC. = )

      So I wouldn't necessarily just put stuff like that on the chopping blocks.

      Now I know I already made my position clear, I had a thought. LOL

      Here's what I was thinking.

      Contact all the collages and specialized universities like DeVry, make sure they all have graphics and design and marketing as subjects.

      Create a contest and explain that all the students are free to enter on behalf of the school they are attending.

      In this contest the School "AND" the students are the winners.

      What should the contest be and who should judge the winners?

      Well if you give it some thought...

      As an example, Denver has a fire fighters museum so lets turn the contest into a cause as well shall we?

      So the contest will be about the local fire fighters museum and the goal of the contest will be to design a new post card or even a poster for the museum! I'm not in the printing space but you get the idea.

      So the winner is now featured at the museum and the museum has something new to sell! Heck, you could have it so that not only the winner but 2nd & 3rd place get represented. Now it's possible that 3 of the local schools will be mentioned at the museum! Ego time! lol

      Pretty much all museums have a trinket store where visitors can buy stuff, right? = ) Denver Fire Fighters Museum

      All that's left is the PR work so I'd create a FB Fan page for the contest. I'd use "cause" as the type of page.

      Reach out to the museum and let them know about it and get them involved, write three press releases about the contest "FOR" the Fire Fighters Museum and that the following local schools are entering the contest to design a special piece that pays tribute to none other then Fire Fighters!

      Once we have entries from schools and have the museum on board we need to find Judges. But who?

      Local personalities of course!

      Mini celebrities!

      Who would "NOT" support a cause for Fire Fighters, right? = )

      OR you could make it a community thing where the local community votes on the winner but I like the local personality as judges better because if they are really into the cause they'll naturally leverage their network to get the word out about the contest. = )

      Press Releases to craft the social vision and message.

      I'd have 3 or 4 press releases because we want to notify the local press multiple times to keep the abreast of how the contest is progressing.
      1. To announce the contest.
      2. To announce which local personalities will be the judges.
      3. To announce the final entrants. Name the School and Students by name. If there's a crap load of students who enter you can't include them all in the PR so just name the schools and make a simple web page that lists the School and all the students so the news folks can visit it.

      4. Announce the finals. X number of entrants has made it to the last round.
      5. To pre-announce that judgement day is on such and such date and confirm the final entrants.. This should point out that the judges are super excited because so many awesome designs were submitted.

      NOTE: Get an official contact for every one involved and have their permission to include that information in the press releases. Providing the contact info to the news agencies will encourage them to contact and possibly interview them which is now free press for the contest. = )

      We have a final round of entrants because we are holding the event for the final 3 winners are announced at the museum! All the final teams need to be at the event because any of them could win, and the winners need to be there for interviews and photo shoots with the judges, etc. etc. = )

      Who benefits?
      Every one!!!

      The students get credit and something to put in their resume.

      The museum gets a new product to sell and news exposure to bring in new visitors, visitors who'll be looking to buy the designs that made the final three in the contest.

      The printer has a new customer with lots of foot traffic coming in SPECIFICALLY for a product that only he delivers. = )

      The local personalities? Aw screw them, they were just pawns! LOL Well the local personalities get to have the warm feeling of being a part of a cause for fire fighters.

      OK the cat's satisfied so he's off my back for now.

      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      I wanted to make the point of the lifetime value too but John Callaghan beat me to it.

      Also another point is there could be an expense he has right now that could be mitigated by the new marketing and its results. Could be he no longer needs the ad spend he has now, or PPC,or adwords, or that with more work he can lower operation costs or realize more gang printing and lower costs. Things of that nature. If so, factor in those savings now going to pure profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Of course you can think of this through a different perspective too. It may not all be about ROI because there could be other hot buttons he has. Find out what those are and weave them into what you have in store for him.
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    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Finding out lifetime value per customer, yes thanks for pointing that out.

      As to your other point, any ad spend of the remaining 25% could be evaluated to see if it brings in any sales/new customers.

      Also depending on where that 25% is being spent is important. What if it's some sort of monthly contractual payment that we don't know about, right? Hope it's working but you're out luck on that money. hehe



      If it's just money he's throwing at the proverbial advertising wall and hoping something sticks that's money we can instantly leverage.

      Because we all know that SEO can take awhile to get results I'm looking at what I may be able to accomplish with that 25% immediately.

      Even if he's doing PPC, or Adwords, there's a chance he's really screwing that up. Actually we can almost guarantee the owner is screwing it up. I recently read that most local small business owners are wasting an easy 25% of their ad spend when doing PPC. = )

      So I wouldn't necessarily just put stuff like that on the chopping blocks.

      Now I know I already made my position clear, I had a thought. LOL

      Here's what I was thinking.

      Contact all the collages and specialized universities like DeVry, make sure they all have graphics and design and marketing as subjects.

      Create a contest and explain that all the students are free to enter on behalf of the school they are attending.

      In this contest the School "AND" the students are the winners.

      What should the contest be and who should judge the winners?

      Well if you give it some thought...

      As an example, Denver has a fire fighters museum so lets turn the contest into a cause as well shall we?

      So the contest will be about the local fire fighters museum and the goal of the contest will be to design a new post card or even a poster for the museum! I'm not in the printing space but you get the idea.

      So the winner is now featured at the museum and the museum has something new to sell! Heck, you could have it so that not only the winner but 2nd & 3rd place get represented. Now it's possible that 3 of the local schools will be mentioned at the museum! Ego time! lol

      Pretty much all museums have a trinket store where visitors can buy stuff, right? = ) Denver Fire Fighters Museum

      All that's left is the PR work so I'd create a FB Fan page for the contest. I'd use "cause" as the type of page.

      Reach out to the museum and let them know about it and get them involved, write three press releases about the contest "FOR" the Fire Fighters Museum and that the following local schools are entering the contest to design a special piece that pays tribute to none other then Fire Fighters!

      Once we have entries from schools and have the museum on board we need to find Judges. But who?

      Local personalities of course!

      Mini celebrities!

      Who would "NOT" support a cause for Fire Fighters, right? = )

      OR you could make it a community thing where the local community votes on the winner but I like the local personality as judges better because if they are really into the cause they'll naturally leverage their network to get the word out about the contest. = )

      Press Releases to craft the social vision and message.

      I'd have 3 or 4 press releases because we want to notify the local press multiple times to keep the abreast of how the contest is progressing.
      1. To announce the contest.
      2. To announce which local personalities will be the judges.
      3. To announce the final entrants. Name the School and Students by name. If there's a crap load of students who enter you can't include them all in the PR so just name the schools and make a simple web page that lists the School and all the students so the news folks can visit it.

      4. Announce the finals. X number of entrants has made it to the last round.
      5. To pre-announce that judgement day is on such and such date and confirm the final entrants.. This should point out that the judges are super excited because so many awesome designs were submitted.

      NOTE: Get an official contact for every one involved and have their permission to include that information in the press releases. Providing the contact info to the news agencies will encourage them to contact and possibly interview them which is now free press for the contest. = )

      We have a final round of entrants because we are holding the event for the final 3 winners are announced at the museum! All the final teams need to be at the event because any of them could win, and the winners need to be there for interviews and photo shoots with the judges, etc. etc. = )

      Who benefits?
      Every one!!!

      The students get credit and something to put in their resume.

      The museum gets a new product to sell and news exposure to bring in new visitors, visitors who'll be looking to buy the designs that made the final three in the contest.

      The printer has a new customer with lots of foot traffic coming in SPECIFICALLY for a product that only he delivers. = )

      The local personalities? Aw screw them, they were just pawns! LOL Well the local personalities get to have the warm feeling of being a part of a cause for fire fighters.

      OK the cat's satisfied so he's off my back for now.
      Great idea. I printed your response off and will study through it tonight with my partner. I really like it. We'll see how we can swing something.

      Funny you mention the topic of fire fighters...

      A week ago the local chief was killed in an accident. .. it's been a topic on the media since...

      I couldn't think of a better time to launch something like this, when it's fresh in peoples minds.

      Thanks

      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      Of course you can think of this through a different perspective too. It may not all be about ROI because there could be other hot buttons he has. Find out what those are and weave them into what you have in store for him.
      One of his hot buttons was definitely instant reporting. Didn't like the idea of waiting on seo to see if it's even working.

      Wanted instant proof...another main goal of 2014 to him was reactivate old accounts, which he has 4,400 of...that have been inactive for 12 months - 24 months.

      Direct mail -- instant proof of return
      Email -- instant proof

      I'm talking reporting here.

      I sold him on that, as well as sold myself. I believe I made a mistake by proposing what I did, and he corrected me. I told him that.

      Not that it wouldn't work, I know it would have worked out fine. But was it really the most practical route to go? The best way to use the budget? I don't think so.

      We constantly put ourselves in control with business owners. Sometimes I think we forget to listen.

      Lesson learned here,

      Schooled by a printer
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Crazy that I used Fire fighters and thanks for printing off my reply. Let us know if you go that course for sure. I'd be interested in seeing how it plays out!

        Originally Posted by abbot View Post

        Great idea. I printed your response off and will study through it tonight with my partner. I really like it. We'll see how we can swing something.

        Funny you mention the topic of fire fighters...

        A week ago the local chief was killed in an accident. .. it's been a topic on the media since...

        I couldn't think of a better time to launch something like this, when it's fresh in peoples minds.

        Thanks



        One of his hot buttons was definitely instant reporting. Didn't like the idea of waiting on seo to see if it's even working.

        Wanted instant proof...another main goal of 2014 to him was reactivate old accounts, which he has 4,400 of...that have been inactive for 12 months - 24 months.

        Direct mail -- instant proof of return
        Email -- instant proof

        I'm talking reporting here.

        I sold him on that, as well as sold myself. I believe I made a mistake by proposing what I did, and he corrected me. I told him that.

        Not that it wouldn't work, I know it would have worked out fine. But was it really the most practical route to go? The best way to use the budget? I don't think so.

        We constantly put ourselves in control with business owners. Sometimes I think we forget to listen.

        Lesson learned here,

        Schooled by a printer
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    A 10 person print shop is not that big. In fact, it is kind of small. What kind of printing do they do? I know you said banners, business cards, catalogs, etc...but are they offset or digital?

    And if he just did a $2M acquisition and is looking at another $1M, two things are true: he has spent a lot of time looking at his cash and likely securing loans. And, as a result, he is likely highly sensitive to his spending right now. He is in a state where he wants to make sure what he is spending is going to bring a return.

    Not only that, but he has definitely had other people looking at his cash as well...people on his side, and the bankers.
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