Offliners, Leave The Plumbers and Dentists Alone.

32 replies
Okay, this is a little bit of a provocative title but I'm sure you'll agree with me in a moment when I explain what I mean.

This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but I feel it has to be said to maybe help a few people.

Most of the offline marketing products and other general off-line marketing products that are produced are aimed squarely at the dentists, chiropractors, plumbers, roofers et cetera et cetera.

Firstly, I believe the reason most of the off-line how-to products target the small markets is because the writers know they that they are pretty safe with the smaller markets although i think they rarely produce results. I think that they think that you will recognise the basic popular format of chasing the small biz markets and be satisfied with what you are purchasing from them usually without question.

And the model on occasion is solid enough but times have changed.

The dentists, chiropractors, roofers, plumbers, and all of the rest of the small target markets quite often are happy with their lot. They don't want to set the world on fire, they don't want more hassle that comes with more business. Also, they have been hammered by all and sundry trying to get them to spend their little bit of profit on internet marketing stuff that quite frankly doesn't really produce results, or indeed the top of results are looking for. A lot of them have been ripped off by the international PPC thieves that constantly email them to peddle their useless wares.

At best it may raise the profile of the brand assuming they have something that is brandable.

Some of these small businesses don't even have the money to pay for marketing services. The majority of these sml business people have tried using the Internet for Leads and realised that by using SEO, social media and other cheap forms of marketing they can get leads for nothing. In fact, I'm sure they have been successful in some instances and got leads for nothing via their industry forums and the Internet in general. but probably haven't had consistently good results and therefore have stopped using the Internet for lead generation.

So what makes you think they will pay for your services?

Let me tell you, in the main, they absolutely wont they will try everything to get you to do stuff for free and once you have done it they will leave. Maybe I'm very cynical but I have a small group that I work with that all tell me the same thing. Small businesses don't really get it and dont particularly want to pay for anything ongoing and that they are ducking and diving trying to eke a living out.

A lot of the offline paid reports and similar products for off-line marketing use the structure telling you to give something away for free. Use reciprocity it screams as you read the PDF. Give away your very best information or service and they will come back for more.

What a load of crap!!

Okay guys you want to know how to earn money with off-line marketing consultancy as I see it?

Chase after the bigger fish. Only target companies with turnovers of $5 million-$15 million.

Put together an unbeatable Internet marketing package you can offer to these medium-size businesses. This will form the basis of your USP nobody can offer this package because it's bespoke to you. Make sure that the package is a total marketing plan good enough that you can charge a lot of money for it and you can outsource it really easily without worrying about buying the best services for your clients because you can afford to buy the best services if you are paid enough.

My presentation can be anything up to 4 hours long. I know, I know, who the hell is going to sit through a four-hour presentation. Generally speaking not everybody but if I've got anybody still in the room after two hours I know I have a sale.

I would charge no less than £1000 or $1500 per month as a retainer which stops you working for their competitors and then I would charge 10-12% of the gross profit you have introduced into the business on a monthly basis paid quarterly.

This system tells a medium-size business you have put your money where your mouth is. If you don't perform you don't get 10%-12%. Because 10%-12% of nil is still nil .

These people have the money to burn and would like you on staff just simply to stop their competitors getting access to you and your industry dominating package. Remember it’s a lot easier to help a business with IM when they aren’t crying for leads every day and can commit to a 12 month plan without flinching.

Don't get me wrong here not having a go at any of the guys are writing the five dollar offline reports. As you may be aware I also on occasions write these reports but I only put down workable models that I personally use.

So bear in mind that the market is becoming swamped with off-line marketeers offering SEO, PPC ect. These people are doomed to failure or will earn very little money because they are working in markets that will not pay and if they do they pay very little.

If you just look for one medium-size company a month after 1 years work you could be earning around about $18,000 every month on retainer and hundreds of thousands of dollars every year on gross commission from increase revenues if you choose the best niches, the ones with the money.

My point is set your target and go after these companies they are not being serviced by anybody. Large companies service by large Ad agencies. The smaller companies are serviced by the small off-line marketers earning a pittance for small tasks, and the medium-size businesses will be serviced by you with a true meaty 12 month marketing package covering the whole shebang.

So if you had $18,000 a month coming in how difficult you think it would be to put your package deal in front of your target medium size business?

You could buy all of the mailing lists that you need, have a professional copywriter write the copy, get a beautifully created printed package to send by direct-mail to the decision-makers of these companies.

You could use the techniques that Dan Kennedy often describes such as using lumpy mail. Or the Bob Serling type of deal where you are sending an important package via FedEx or similar.

My point is if you go after these medium-size companies you have more funds and time available to easily get one company a month.

And guess who the CEO of the medium sized business has in his network of friends and colleagues? Not a Plumber, Dentist or Chiropractor in sight.

work smart not hard.

If you want to discuss it further look me up especially if you are in the UK.
#chiropractor #dentists #leave #offliners #plumbers
  • Profile picture of the author V12
    Makes perfect sense and that's why I've made a change of direction in my own business. Sent you a PM.
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    The reasons there are so many offers of these things targeting small service businesses for consumers. It's understandable and tangible in many minds. That's largely the only reason.

    The real untapped money is in B2B but its a little bit more nebulous and not always easily categorized, so its harder to put in a simplified defined system to sell.
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    In a moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing. ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
      Originally Posted by NewParadigm View Post

      The reasons there are so many offers of these things targeting small service businesses for consumers. It's understandable and tangible in many minds. That's largely the only reason.

      The real untapped money is in B2B but its a little bit more nebulous and not always easily categorized, so its harder to put in a simplified defined system to sell.
      I agree with you NewParadigm. I missed the part out of the original post (not purposefully) where I work with B2B for consultancy work, it is a lot easier but a slower courtship to get them to know you.

      Last year I had a relationship with a distributer of large earth movers sourced from China and Japan etc. The machines could range up to £250,000 so they didn't need to sell many.

      It was a very sleepy company and needed dexterity in order to get their attention but it was an enjoyable process for me as I only work with a few companies if I can.

      They had an internet site given to them by their Chinese supplier and looked like a Chinese (with all dues respect to our Chinese brethren) site. It wasn't to difficult to make improvements to their online standing.

      Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Small - Medium - Large in the local business realm is subjective at best and relative to the industry as well.

    To one person a small business may be any company who's gross sales are 1 million per year or less, to another it may still be considered small with 5 million a year gross sales or less, and here in the U.S. the small business administration deems ANY business who's gross sales is 500 million a year or less as you guessed it, a small business.

    I find it really ironic that you sorta bash those who are calling on service providers to offer services and yet your signature is promoting how to sell to service providers! LOL Is it me or does any one else see that as a little weird in relation to the content of the post?

    Also, in regards to getting a cut of gross sales you said 10%-12%.

    Now unless the clients profit margins are very healthy this isn't financially feasible for most companies and is totally unrealistic in the service industry space.

    I was a successful roofing contractor and the sales commissions I paid to the average salesperson where along the lines of 10% so adding another 10% on top of that for any one's lead fee, marketing fee or whatever won't work!

    Additionally as a service provider it immediately shows me that the person trying to charge me this amount is either greedy as HELL or just doesn't understand my space enough to know what sort of expenses I have regardless of the type of marketing they are offering. I'd politely see you on your way in that situation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Small - Medium - Large in the local business realm is subjective at best and relative to the industry as well.

      To one person a small business may be any company who's gross sales are 1 million per year or less, to another it may still be considered small with 5 million a year gross sales or less, and here in the U.S. the small business administration deems ANY business who's gross sales is 500 million a year or less as you guessed it, a small business.

      I find it really ironic that you sorta bash those who are calling on service providers to offer services and yet your signature is promoting how to sell to service providers! LOL Is it me or does any one else see that as a little weird in relation to the content of the post?

      Also, in regards to getting a cut of gross sales you said 10%-12%.

      Now unless the clients profit margins are very healthy this isn't financially feasible for most companies and is totally unrealistic in the service industry space.

      I was a successful roofing contractor and the sales commissions I paid to the average salesperson where along the lines of 10% so adding another 10% on top of that for any one's lead fee, marketing fee or whatever won't work!

      Additionally as a service provider it immediately shows me that the person trying to charge me this amount is either greedy as HELL or just doesn't understand my space enough to know what sort of expenses I have regardless of the type of marketing they are offering. I'd politely see you on your way in that situation.
      Firstly Rus I am a customer of yours and respect your opinion.

      Secondly: I AM NOT BASHING ANYONE OK!!!!

      I am simply putting my own views across that might offer so clarity to people confused with the lack of success from the smaller contractors. Yes of course, you can prequalify them to make sure they have the money and are a fit with you and you with them.

      Also you shouldn't find my stance ironic because I offer leads to smaller contractors that I can work with and also can afford to do business with me because I costs me money to produce these leads as my WSO states and that my friend is totally different from this post.

      I am not trying to drive traffic to it either.

      Lastly, the figures I mentioned aren't written in stone but a guide of what I like to work with. If I bring an extra 50,000 a year into an already successful business that can operate on a 10% commission thats fine but it may be that the overhead to do the extra work means 3% or 5% - 7% and thats fine, I am helpful not greedy as anyone that knows me would agree.

      As for your last paragraph it is obvious that if you couldn't afford what I considered a fair and workable commission payment for both of us WE would be a fit and I would smile and move on leaving you with all of the free advice you may have got from a presentation.

      I hope this clears this up a little I see I have some more fires to put out. sheesh
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    I'm assuming this thread was started to drive traffic to the WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      Total rip off of Diego Rodriguez webinar with Mike Koenigs a few days ago. Not that I don't agree with you..... ummmm... him. I find it hard to believe you came up with these "original" ideas immediately after Diego's webinar, and hit upon his points almost one after the next in the same order he did.

      You do realize that there are a few Traffic Geyser folks roaming around right? I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw the pitch.

      Anyway, if someone wants the "real pitch", here's the replay from Koenigs. It's worth a watch.

      http://www.instantcustomer.com/go/109102
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      We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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      • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
        Originally Posted by MRomeo09 View Post

        Total rip off of Diego Rodriguez webinar with Mike Koenigs a few days ago. Not that I don't agree with you..... ummmm... him. I find it hard to believe you came up with these "original" ideas immediately after Diego's webinar, and hit upon his points almost one after the next in the same order he did.

        You do realize that there are a few Traffic Geyser folks roaming around right? I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw the pitch.

        Anyway, if someone wants the "real pitch", here's the replay from Koenigs. It's worth a watch.

        http://www.instantcustomer.com/go/109102
        These aren't original ideas, nothing is original surely you already know that?

        I got most of this from Jay Abraham and it was expanding upon by Dan Kennedy and more recently by Frank Kern in his Advanced Consultancy class.

        I own Traffic Geyser and Instant Customer (Agency Editions) and most of MikeKoenigs other products and use them for my own companies and for client companies. I did see the video and it triggered an idea that I posted about whats the big deal. It must have helped some people because I have answered 5 PM's about this thread today.

        and I will continue to try to help people no matter what.

        It seems a shame that those guys needed to ask via PM and not the thread but seeing the nature of the aggressive responses I dont blame them.

        Frank and Mike have been moving Diego up the IM ladder for a while now and here's the rub, a consultancy program for a few thousands dollars. Nothing wrong with that but his video and my post are all you need to do it yourself.

        Anyone wanna chat skype me Im here all day folks.

        Ed
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        • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
          Originally Posted by Edward Green View Post

          These aren't original ideas, nothing is original surely you already know that?

          I got most of this from Jay Abraham and it was expanding upon by Dan Kennedy and more recently by Frank Kern in his Advanced Consultancy class.

          I own Traffic Geyser and Instant Customer (Agency Editions) and most of MikeKoenigs other products and use them for my own companies and for client companies. I did see the video and it triggered an idea that I posted about whats the big deal. It must have helped some people because I have answered 5 PM's about this thread today.

          and I will continue to try to help people no matter what.

          It seems a shame that those guys needed to ask via PM and not the thread but seeing the nature of the aggressive responses I dont blame them.

          Frank and Mike have been moving Diego up the IM ladder for a while now and here's the rub, a consultancy program for a few thousands dollars. Nothing wrong with that but his video and my post are all you need to do it yourself.

          Anyone wanna chat skype me Im here all day folks.

          Ed
          I was not trying to be aggressive, but it's proper etiquette to at least point someone to your source when you're copying it almost word for word.

          If it were me, I would have made a post, hey check out Diego's video, these are my major takeaways. What do you think? Anyone that doesn't want to pay to join him want to have a mastermind and build this model up together. Wouldn't that have been more ethical and honest, rather than trying to pass it off as your own ideas?

          I consume at least 2 hours of material every day. Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, Dan Kennedy, etc. It's sometimes hard for me to remember where I found things. I try to usually point to my source material when I can. It's only fair to the content creator. Think it through, what if I took your WSO and read it, and then tried to pass all the ideas off as my own. After all nothing is truly original right?
          Signature
          We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

          Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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    • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
      Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

      I'm assuming this thread was started to drive traffic to the WSO.
      As previously said, Not to drive traffic to the WSO. how cynical can you get.
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      • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
        Originally Posted by Edward Green View Post

        As previously said, Not to drive traffic to the WSO. how cynical can you get.
        Considering you post twice a year and the language you used in this post is the same as in your WSO thread linked in your signature, it's not hard to put two and two together.

        Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I still market and cater to the roofers and dentists.
    Why? I have a USP that seperates me from everyone else.
    I decided to be different last year when I saw all the I'M bullshit going around.
    I don't see any problem with marketing to them. They do have money, they just want results.
    And doing stuff for free, I just did a testimonial on Fri. Had it ranked on Sat. Showed the professional today, and he wants me to wok with him. Meeting with him again later this week. Then, I will handle the other 9 locations. Oh, did I mentioned I did the testimonial and ranking for free?
    Finally, to the OP, give credit where credit is due.

    PS... next time you do a post like this, change your sig...
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe J
    You really lost me at: ......."Make sure that the package is a total marketing plan good enough that you can charge a lot of money for it and you can outsource it really easily without worrying about buying the best services for your clients........"


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    • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
      Originally Posted by Joe J View Post

      You really lost me at: ......."Make sure that the package is a total marketing plan good enough that you can charge a lot of money for it and you can outsource it really easily without worrying about buying the best services for your clients........"


      Joe J, thanks for the pick up this is what I meant.

      "Make sure that the package is a total marketing plan good enough that you can charge a lot of money for it and you can [B]outsource it really easily without worrying about buying the best services for your clients because you can afford to buy the best services if you are paid enough........"

      Sorry if I created confusion I NEVER do anything without my clients best intention at heart, NEVER.

      Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew S
    Every business that wants to be found online needs IM services of some form or another. And there's always going to be an opportunity to fill that need, small medium or large.
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    • Profile picture of the author Edward Green
      Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post

      Every business that wants to be found online needs IM services of some form or another. And there's always going to be an opportunity to fill that need, small medium or large.
      Absolutely correct Andrew S. I choose a different path to others because I guess at 35 years in business I know what I want to do and I cant afford to work harder anymore for health reasons.

      I try to walk the shortest path that still benefits all parties. If it does, when then I wont do it.

      I never wrote this to finger point the right and wrong way I thought it would be valuable to others that might be ready to step up the the larger companies with the Jay Abraham model in mind.

      But you are right, someone needs to find the smaller companies and help them also.

      Ed
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Hey Edward, I didn't know you were a customer of mine! It wouldn't have changed my response though. LOL

        So the thing you said,
        Firstly, I believe the reason most of the off-line how-to products target the small markets is because the writers know they that they are pretty safe with the smaller markets although i think they rarely produce results. I think that they think that you will recognise the basic popular format of chasing the small biz markets and be satisfied with what you are purchasing from them usually without question.
        I don't really see that but one thing I do know for sure is that there are a few Offline product creators who don't have a single client but sell on the false pretense that they are highly successful and have lots of clients.

        I think you weren't really clear enough or maybe I'm wrong on that but the service provider space for example isn't a small space, yes it's full of wanna be business owners who are really just installers who think they have a business.

        That's the part about the industry that no one explains to any one. But you can trust me when I say, there are PLENTY of service providers doing many millions a year so as you said it comes down to qualifying, I'm sure you're aware of this.

        You definitely nailed it about all the people hammering business owners with emails, voice messages, and lumpy mail too, and your right many are just content right where they are. Many are just as cynical as some of us can tend to be around here as well, me included sometimes. LOL

        I really did feel that your post "could" "might" have been to get sig traffic but I tried to soften it a little. haha

        I'm usually more frank, as others here will attest. haha

        Originally Posted by Edward Green View Post

        Absolutely correct Andrew S. I choose a different path to others because I guess at 35 years in business I know what I want to do and I cant afford to work harder anymore for health reasons.

        I try to walk the shortest path that still benefits all parties. If it does, when then I wont do it.

        I never wrote this to finger point the right and wrong way I thought it would be valuable to others that might be ready to step up the the larger companies with the Jay Abraham model in mind.

        But you are right, someone needs to find the smaller companies and help them also.

        Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
    I like working with my local dentists, chiropractors and other small businesses.

    I like helping them grow their business.

    I like creating a personal relationship with them.

    I like working with business owners in my own area that I can go out to lunch with or swing by and say hi.

    I like saving them from the clutches of the yellow pages, Yodle and other crap service providers.

    Could I work with bigger companies? Yep. Do I want to? Not really. Will I? Maybe someday.
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  • Profile picture of the author vne5
    And while you're spending your time trying to get in touch with CEO's, CFO's, marketing managers etc, getting a meeting with them, pitching them, then going through all of the corporate red tape (that usually entails some sort of board approval for the spending), I'm starting a relationship with 20-30 new clients to your one. Hell, even if a small portion of them bail on payment, I still come out way ahead.

    Just like the old saying… a bird in the hand (or on this case 20-30), is worth more than 2 in the bush.

    You can avoid the clients that don't have the money simply by pre-qualifying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neison
    I felt several disconnects in the OP. I'm seriously wondering how many companies you've lined up with the proposed deal. And then grabbing one a month and serving them appropriately is even harder to imagine.

    That said, getting a medium or larger business to work with you does have greater cash flow potential. But you're often selling to a committee, not one person.

    Usually I'm sitting with 3-5 people when presenting to a company like that. Doable, but not as smooth as working with owner-operators. And when the contract comes out, sometimes the lawyer does too. Not that these factors should stop someone from going for it, but it helps to have a track record, a referral, or some level of rapport going in.

    Also, there's something to be said for accepting a "small" client and taking him to the medium-level. Does it happen often? No. But, that's where the real rewards are if you ask me.
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  • Totally Agree with this!
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    • Profile picture of the author kemdev
      I would charge no less than £1000 or $1500 per month as a retainer which stops you working for their competitors and then I would charge 10-12% of the gross profit you have introduced into the business on a monthly basis paid quarterly.
      To me - and maybe I'm waaaaaaaay off here - it sounds like you know all of the things you would do: target big companies, charge thousands + commission, create huge four hour presentations, etc...

      Show me one client you are doing these things with and I'll eat my left shoe.

      So what makes you think they will pay for your services?

      Let me tell you, in the main, they absolutely wont they will try everything to get you to do stuff for free and once you have done it they will leave. Maybe I'm very cynical but I have a small group that I work with that all tell me the same thing. Small businesses don't really get it and dont particularly want to pay for anything ongoing and that they are ducking and diving trying to eke a living out.
      I'll play along and assume you're too busy targeting the 'big fish' to make sales with small businesses. But the 2k I just dropped in my bank account from one of these 'small businesses who have no money' begs to differ with your argument. Even installers want more leads (hint hint: Rus).

      Don't get me wrong here not having a go at any of the guys are writing the five dollar offline reports. As you may be aware I also on occasions write these reports but I only put down workable models that I personally use.

      So bear in mind that the market is becoming swamped with off-line marketeers offering SEO, PPC ect. These people are doomed to failure or will earn very little money because they are working in markets that will not pay and if they do they pay very little.
      Usually I really don't care about posts like these. I get it... you have a WSO or something to sell, you want more people to go to it, you probably read in another WSO how forum marketing works and thought you'd give it a go. You probably even made some sales from this post - bravo to you.

      But by and large, this is the only no-bullshit section of the forum. Why? Because so many people here actually do offline marketing. And we can smell it on the ones that don't.

      You may know what everyone wants to hear, but I sincerely doubt you know what really works and what doesn't. You may know who you would be targeting and what prices you would charge, but I'll say it again... show me one client of yours like that and I'll eat my left shoe.

      This post would serve people better on your WSO thread. They don't know any better anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author shockwave
        Originally Posted by kemdev View Post

        But by and large, this is the only no-bullshit section of the forum.
        LOL.......hey, where's MidasMan? He might sway your opinion on this perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author AussieT
    Guys his WSO is over 1 year old if he was trying to pimp his WSO why would he wait a year before doing it.

    Whether he has a WSO or not he is allowed to post an opinion here and those that disagree with that opinion are equally entitled to voice it. But lets cut him some slack and not go around accusing people without any REAL proof.
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    • Profile picture of the author Biz Max
      I just got a $2000 drop in my paypal account today from a roofer in Texas
      to help him recreate his brand...

      In other words, this advice is sorta not-so-good
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  • I agree with some of the other people here: I like getting to talk to a local biz, helping them advertise, and then actually knowing how they make their biz a success in the area. Some of my clients that I haven't seen now have amazing websites set up and ranking, others with advertising on YouTube, and some having the longeat lines in their store at the mall. It surprises how they can really grow their brand, and knowing they did so with my help feels great.

    Of course, i don't work in offline marketing as much as i did before, but I still do have some clients I stay in contact with, and others I still manage some online stuff for them. So, I dod target plumbers, dentists, and many other small niches.


    If you're in this biz just to snag their big cash, you'll never land them becauae you're too busy charging them thousands. Focus on helping them, and you'll see them continue to trust in yoi even years later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
    Yes please leave the plumbers alone, I will take them all =) Up to just about 100 recurring monthly flat rate lead gen plumber clients now and growing. =)

    Just find what works with you and run with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author AussieT
      Originally Posted by Cashflowlife View Post

      Yes please leave the plumbers alone, I will take them all =) Up to just about 100 recurring monthly flat rate lead gen plumber clients now and growing. =)

      Just find what works with you and run with it.
      Are you charging them per lead or a flat rate?
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      • Profile picture of the author Cashflowlife
        Originally Posted by AussieT View Post

        Are you charging them per lead or a flat rate?
        Flat rate, amount varies by client/city, been signing 5-6 new clients a month last couple years, over-deliver like crazy, nobody ever leaves. Surely could make more charging per lead but I don't want the additional admin, I'd rather just have the auto monthly CC payments ya know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    Like the Diego video with Keonigs. Thanks for sharing it.
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