Help me Mastermind in the Offline Marketing Forum

10 years ago

To answer your questions properly I would need to figure out a way to transfer a decade of experience in this posting. It would be like me asking you I want to become an expert chiro. So far I know that a firm bed is great for the back, what else would you recommend? :-)

Instead I will share this with you
I have a few clients have gone full circle on this path.
Dentists, Orthodontists and Chiropractors.
It was very interesting for me to watch as I had not seen this with my other niches.

This group of people (Dentists, Ortho's, Chiro's) are very intelligent, detail oriented and entrepreneurial.

Here is the life cycle I have witnessed.

1. They need more clients/business
2. They hire people (not the best but affordable traditional web guys etc..) to handle bits and pieces with no major impact but have some small victories.
3. They begin to take time away from their main business to learn marketing because they know there must be more that is possible.
4. They start to implement some of the lessons they learn into their existing marketing with some small victories.
5. All of them so far had visions of being so good at this they would become the marketing advisor to their niche. They start to realize that is a full time job and there are marketing gurus already specialized in niches that can run circles around them in both knowledge and resources. They then settle for giving an occasional speech at a conference.
5. The constant learning and trying to be their own marketing director causes them to lose too much time so they figure they will learn this marketing thing then train someone internally because that is much cheaper than hiring the guru.
6. They become ok at marketing and try to transfer that to another person and that person never exceeds being very mediocre because they are not as educated and entrepreneurial nor as invested in the outcome as the original marketer, the business owner. Since their focus on marketing is not causing a flood of new business they are generally expected to handle much more than the marketing and then the marketing suffers even more.
7. Finally the business owner knows enough about marketing that they can at least separate a guru from a flake and they finally understand the true costs in time and effort and the costs of not doing it properly and pay to have it all handled, a fee that when they began the process made their eyes water and they refused as absurd.

:-)

So far I have seen this exact process play itself out 6 times in the past 3 years.
Now I chuckle when I get an email saying I am going to start a side business as a marketing coach to my niche and would like your input/help or can you help me learn all there is to know about online marketing so I can teach my office admin to do it for us.

Of course none of this is to say that you should not pursue learning all you can and that you cannot do it yourself I am simply sharing this because I have seen it so many times it is worth mentioning. It is also fair to say that any improvement in your marketing is worth pursuing I would just be conscious of the true cost of going to far down the rabbit hole.

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digichik

10 years ago

Originally Posted by plessard

Instead I will share this with you
I have a few clients have gone full circle on this path.
Dentists, Orthodontists and Chiropractors.
It was very interesting for me to watch as I had not seen this with my other niches.

This group of people (Dentists, Ortho's, Chiro's) are very intelligent, detail oriented and entrepreneurial.

Here is the life cycle I have witnessed.

1. They need more clients/business
2. They hire people (not the best but affordable traditional web guys etc..) to handle bits and pieces with no major impact but have some small victories.
3. They begin to take time away from their main business to learn marketing because they know there must be more that is possible.
4. They start to implement some of the lessons they learn into their existing marketing with some small victories.
5. All of them so far had visions of being so good at this they would become the marketing advisor to their niche. They start to realize that is a full time job and there are marketing gurus already specialized in niches that can run circles around them in both knowledge and resources. They then settle for giving an occasional speech at a conference.
5. The constant learning and trying to be their own marketing director causes them to lose too much time so they figure they will learn this marketing thing then train someone internally because that is much cheaper than hiring the guru.
6. They become ok at marketing and try to transfer that to another person and that person never exceeds being very mediocre because they are not as educated and entrepreneurial nor as invested in the outcome as the original marketer, the business owner. Since their focus on marketing is not causing a flood of new business they are generally expected to handle much more than the marketing and then the marketing suffers even more.
7. Finally the business owner knows enough about marketing that they can at least separate a guru from a flake and they finally understand the true costs in time and effort and the costs of not doing it properly and pay to have it all handled, a fee that when they began the process made their eyes water and they refused as absurd.

:-)

THAT'S THE TRUTH!!!

I used to avoid selling to doctor, dentists, chiros because they are too difficult to get through to, need the most help, and in most cases, think they have all the answers.

Then on top of all of that they insult you, by thinking the years of education, knowledge and experience you've accumulated are worth no more than they'd pay a secretary or front office assistant.

They seem to have a difficult time realizing the value a good marketing person will provide their practice. In most cases, it's tens of thousand$ - $100,000+ in additional revenue annually.

"Penny wise, pound foolish"

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DaniMc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by digichik

Then on top of all of that they insult you, by thinking the years of education, knowledge and experience you've accumulated are worth no more than they'd pay a secretary or front office assistant.

They seem to have a difficult time realizing the value a good marketing person will provide their practice. In most cases, it's tens of thousand$ - $100,000+ in additional revenue annually.

"Penny wise, pound foolish"

Oh yeah. That is a great way to put it. This is why I am no longer pursuing performing marketing for other businesses. You always have to deal with their beliefs and fears, and they sabotage their own progress just like the rest of us! I'm dropping almost all client work and switching to building and promoting my own businesses that I can then partner with others to perform. Real Estate is first, there are quite a few services after that.

TheChiropractor - I just want to throw a suggestion out there.

Keep in mind that you DON'T want to do IM. What you REALLY want is more patients. Right now, you believe that you can get more patients through IM and it should be cheaper or easier which it may or may not be.

Forget about PPC, SEO, and email. These are tactics that you may or may not need right now. Remember, your GOAL isn't marketing. Your goal is more appointments. More paying customers.

The very best people you can target are people who have already paid you. This resource is far more important than any marketing system. I am a big believer in starting where you are now, and then branching out as you maximize opportunities.

Your past patients are the most valuable people in your world. If you don't know how many of them are not coming in as often as they should, you need to find out. You need to maximize the number of times they come back. Don't let them forget about you.

How many people have come for 1 or 2 appointments and never returned? I guarantee you are underestimating that number. You need to figure out why this is happening and fix it. If you don't KNOW this data, then it may blow your mind. Every person I have worked with who didn't have concrete data was very surprised by the real answer. I always ask them to estimate first, and then later when the real number comes back they are shocked.

How many people are forgetting or missing appointments? you need to figure out ways to eliminate this waste.

How many people are bringing you referrals? You need to encourage people to "bring a friend and get x". It could be a massage, a free adjustment, or whatever else you can provide cheaply and easily. When they bring the friend, you make sure to follow up with them and keep them coming in!

After you have maximized your repeat business and your referrals, then you can branch out if needed. Many small businesses don't need to do external marketing once their repeat and referral systems are running well.

I personally know two medical professionals who were full with just this strategy. One of them had to bring on a second doctor. The other didn't want to.

Once you need external marketing, you should not start with PPC or other techniques until you have developed a conversion strategy that you KNOW works. This could be a back pain guide, or some other interesting giveaway that makes people want to talk to you.

If you have something that works, then begin with small tests to see how to make it convert.

Please don't think you will jump right from where you are into advanced IM. If someone is trying to sell you on those techniques and are NOT talking about the other aspects of your business, be very skeptical.

Start where you are right now. Look closely at the "immediate possible" to see what you can do.

Always move from a position of strength with as many known variables as possible. Starting from a position of weakness into IM marketing campaigns will lead to all sorts of wasted money and frustration. Most people think it will be easy. You get your ass handed to you and a year later you think marketing doesn't work.

You wasted $80k trying to unlock the safe when in reality, you are standing inside the safe already. You own it. Start there.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

Oh yeah. That is a great way to put it. This is why I am no longer pursuing performing marketing for other businesses. You always have to deal with their beliefs and fears, and they sabotage their own progress just like the rest of us! I'm dropping almost all client work and switching to building and promoting my own businesses that I can then partner with others to perform. Real Estate is first, there are quite a few services after that.

TheChiropractor - I just want to throw a suggestion out there.

Keep in mind that you DON'T want to do IM. What you REALLY want is more patients. Right now, you believe that you can get more patients through IM and it should be cheaper or easier which it may or may not be.

Forget about PPC, SEO, and email. These are tactics that you may or may not need right now. Remember, your GOAL isn't marketing. Your goal is more appointments. More paying customers.

The very best people you can target are people who have already paid you. This resource is far more important than any marketing system. I am a big believer in starting where you are now, and then branching out as you maximize opportunities.

Your past patients are the most valuable people in your world. If you don't know how many of them are not coming in as often as they should, you need to find out. You need to maximize the number of times they come back. Don't let them forget about you.

How many people have come for 1 or 2 appointments and never returned? I guarantee you are underestimating that number. You need to figure out why this is happening and fix it. If you don't KNOW this data, then it may blow your mind. Every person I have worked with who didn't have concrete data was very surprised by the real answer. I always ask them to estimate first, and then later when the real number comes back they are shocked.

How many people are forgetting or missing appointments? you need to figure out ways to eliminate this waste.

How many people are bringing you referrals? You need to encourage people to "bring a friend and get x". It could be a massage, a free adjustment, or whatever else you can provide cheaply and easily. When they bring the friend, you make sure to follow up with them and keep them coming in!

After you have maximized your repeat business and your referrals, then you can branch out if needed. Many small businesses don't need to do external marketing once their repeat and referral systems are running well.

I personally know two medical professionals who were full with just this strategy. One of them had to bring on a second doctor. The other didn't want to.

Once you need external marketing, you should not start with PPC or other techniques until you have developed a conversion strategy that you KNOW works. This could be a back pain guide, or some other interesting giveaway that makes people want to talk to you.

If you have something that works, then begin with small tests to see how to make it convert.

Please don't think you will jump right from where you are into advanced IM. If someone is trying to sell you on those techniques and are NOT talking about the other aspects of your business, be very skeptical.

Start where you are right now. Look closely at the "immediate possible" to see what you can do.

Always move from a position of strength with as many known variables as possible. Starting from a position of weakness into IM marketing campaigns will lead to all sorts of wasted money and frustration. Most people think it will be easy. You get your ass handed to you and a year later you think marketing doesn't work.

You wasted $80k trying to unlock the safe when in reality, you are standing inside the safe already. You own it. Start there.

Dan,

I appreciate your wisdom. It is true that most doctors forget the value of re-activation and their current customer base with the potential network that they have. The power of word of mouth is greater than any marketing system. I have capitalized on those opportunities and I hope to implement new strategies to boost my referrals and repeat business. However, this is not enough for me to grow my company to multiple office locations.

I do have a conversion system and have kept track of all the marketing I've done externally, internally, and the little internet that I've done. I have learned how to pre-qualify potential patients. I know what it cost for me to bring in a patient at with my current system. I have all those statistics. At this point, I'm looking to OPTIMIZE my marketing system as IMers refer to it. I'm split testing my marketing system per se.

So my question is, if I've got my converting system in place for my external marketing, internal marketing, and want to expand to internet marketing, what would your suggestion be for a strategy to initiate that process?

I really like the paid traffic, esp. from FB, Twitter, Youtube, etc.

How come you don't think ppc is a good start?

Thanks
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DaniMc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Dan,

I appreciate your wisdom. It is true that most doctors forget the value of re-activation and their current customer base with the potential network that they have. The power of word of mouth is greater than any marketing system. I have capitalized on those opportunities and I hope to implement new strategies to boost my referrals and repeat business. However, this is not enough for me to grow my company to multiple office locations.

I do have a conversion system and have kept track of all the marketing I've done externally, internally, and the little internet that I've done. I have learned how to pre-qualify potential patients. I know what it cost for me to bring in a patient at with my current system. I have all those statistics. At this point, I'm looking to OPTIMIZE my marketing system as IMers refer to it. I'm split testing my marketing system per se.

So my question is, if I've got my converting system in place for my external marketing, internal marketing, and want to expand to internet marketing, what would your suggestion be for a strategy to initiate that process?

I really like the paid traffic, esp. from FB, Twitter, Youtube, etc.

How come you don't think ppc is a good start?

You are ahead of the game. I'd estimate that less than 25% of business owners have things worked out to your level without getting a good deal of outside help.

I don't have a problem with PPC but it can be complicated and can get expensive quickly. FB is a good platform to start with. I think I would stay away from search PPC at first. People often think of search PPC before they are ready.

Opening multiple locations is a great goal. This is more of a general business consulting type suggestion: In my opinion, you should have doctor #2 with a full schedule in your first office before you think about another location.

Many of the skills you learn will be hard to translate to other people. We have already established that you are well above average in your business knowledge. This means you might run the risk of expecting too much from other doctors.

If you can keep yourself busy enough, and also fill up another doctor, then you know you have refined your system enough so that it doesn't depend just on your personal knowledge and ability.

What conversion tactics do you have in place already? How are they working now?

Do you have active or passive referrals?

Have you pursued any sort of cross-promotional relationships with other business owners?

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

You are ahead of the game. I'd estimate that less than 25% of business owners have things worked out to your level without getting a good deal of outside help.

I don't have a problem with PPC but it can be complicated and can get expensive quickly. FB is a good platform to start with. I think I would stay away from search PPC at first. People often think of search PPC before they are ready.

Opening multiple locations is a great goal. This is more of a general business consulting type suggestion: In my opinion, you should have doctor #2 with a full schedule in your first office before you think about another location.

Many of the skills you learn will be hard to translate to other people. We have already established that you are well above average in your business knowledge. This means you might run the risk of expecting too much from other doctors.

If you can keep yourself busy enough, and also fill up another doctor, then you know you have refined your system enough so that it doesn't depend just on your personal knowledge and ability.

What conversion tactics do you have in place already? How are they working now?

Do you have active or passive referrals?

Have you pursued any sort of cross-promotional relationships with other business owners?

I have tried Adwords in the past and realize they are way to expensive and ROI is not very good. It is saturated for sure with my local market. Not worth it. I am dabbling w/ FB Ads right now where I see a great potential for my PPC campaigns. I've tested our a couple things, but still need to refine and do more research to laser target my audience. I'm also going to to implement a retargeting system for those that visit my website and those that utilize certain webpages to allow a pop-up of my promotions. This will decrease my CPC and in the long run BUILD A LIST that I can continually advertise to.. just in case when they need our services.

Our current converting system starts at the front desk when people call in. Front desk is trained on specifics on how to handle all questions and convert into a free consultation. Risk free. Once they're in, I usually consult w/ them and find out their problems and explain how our service would help. Right now it's a 75%-85% conversion when they are in our office. My external marketing conversion rate is around 30% (Not good.. need to hit 65%+).. Call ins and referrals are 95%-100% converted.

Active referrals are from our events that we participate in. Passive referrals come from patient referrals, doctors referrals, lawyer referrals, however it takes and active approach to continue to connect w/ them.

B2B.. haven't had great success w/ that. We've tried gyms, health shops, smoothie shops.. hard to build relationships w/ them... However, I do refer to my accountants, gyms, and other relationships I've built in the past couple of years.

I'm hoping to get a solid strategy in place for IM so I can boost our stats even more.

Thank you Dan for your advice on the 2nd doc. I plan to have one soon when I feel confident that our foot traffic can be steady so I can build a second location.

You are right that no one will be as "good" as yourself. But all business owners have that mentality and thus will have a hard time letting go trusting another person to handle the job. However, I've set up my business to where it's a plug and play. For the most part, the fundamentals of each post can be duplicated in any office.. the only difference will be the people/personalities. It is AUTOMATED as you can say.

On another note.. as I study more about IM.. I find it puzzling on how it can become a true business.. because it would be hard to AUTOMATE the skill sets. Each of these skills are highly advanced and I have not come across a resume that entailed any of those skills. Technology and internet moves lightning fast and if you're not immersed into it.. you will be left behind. I find that those that are immersed into it make more money being self employed than working for a company. So I will most likely find it difficult to have automation with my internet marketing position. Something to think about I guess.. Any thoughts?

Thanks

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Plessard,

You're describing the exact mind frame I had going into this IM. I'll have to buy you a beer or a couple because you probably just saved me a couple years of my life!

I do want to avoid chasing that rabbit hole...

My goal is to only learn what works and what doesn't.. usually that requires myself to be involved in learning the behind the scenes stuff and technical stuff as well. I want to know enough so that I can make an informed decision so that when I interview "GURUs" to take over the internet marketing aspect of my business I won't be misinformed by them hyping their skills.

Now, when you saw the life cycle of those doctors you've worked with.. what was your advice to them on how they should have done it in the first place?

As for your back.. I highly recommend using a foam roller. It's inexpensive, works wonders! Roll your big muscle groups: back, thighs, calfs, glutes... you'll be more FUNCTIONAL with age.

Thanks

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

I can understand the ego that some of these doctors have, but fortunately I'm not too absorbed in mine. I can see where value is and I take the opportunity to capitalize.

May I ask what your pitch to these doctors were and what strategy would you have place to increase their business?

Thanks
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digichik

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

I can understand the ego that some of these doctors have, but fortunately I'm not too absorbed in mine. I can see where value is and I take the opportunity to capitalize.

May I ask what your pitch to these doctors were and what strategy would you have place to increase their business?

Each clients needs are unique, thus my marketing solutions are tailored to their situations.

I have to agree with Dan that PPC can be super expensive, even when one is an expert at PPC. Dan's other advice is spot on.

Do you have your office staff on the same page as you? Do they know how to handle the phones, to convert calls into appointments? Have you trained them on how to convert inquiries into appointments? Do you track their efforts?

Are you tracking the calls you are getting from your marketing efforts?

Are you using tracking phone numbers to know where your calls/new patients are coming from?

Do you have a pro-active rep management process in place?

Have you developed referral programs and implemented them?

Do you know how well each of your marketing tactics is doing?

How many new patients are you getting from each tactic (e.g. print ads, youtube, direct mail, radio, etc.) ?

How many visitors to your website are scheduling appointments?

Do you have a regular patient re-activation program in place?

Is your marketing fractured or is it a cohesive marketing machine--with each piece supporting the others?

Just some things to ask yourself.

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estebillan

10 years ago

Try this

Create an offer on facebook to give away a free 10 min back adjustment.

Use woobox coupons (just $1 to try for one campaign) to market it as a free gift card or something. You can limit it to 50 or so if you like. Time limit the offer and display that prominently.

Put a fangate on it so users have to share the link if they want the card

Use facebook ads to explicitly target your area and perfect customer profile

People will start to eat up your free cards. Now when they redeem them for their appointment, upsell them gently.

1 in 3 walkins like this will become a long term customer, worth hundreds to you.

Minimal expense, excellent results, great ROI.

And then when you like you just run the offer again (or something similar)

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by estebillan

Try this

Create an offer on facebook to give away a free 10 min back adjustment.

Use woobox coupons (just $1 to try for one campaign) to market it as a free gift card or something. You can limit it to 50 or so if you like. Time limit the offer and display that prominently.

Put a fangate on it so users have to share the link if they want the card

Use facebook ads to explicitly target your area and perfect customer profile

People will start to eat up your free cards. Now when they redeem them for their appointment, upsell them gently.

1 in 3 walkins like this will become a long term customer, worth hundreds to you.

Minimal expense, excellent results, great ROI.

And then when you like you just run the offer again (or something similar)

For my current promos, I'm giving away a package that includes consultation, and 30 minute massage. This is such a great deal that I'm thinking to myself, man I would take that any day! I do uphold their gift whether they start care w/ me or not. I believe in quality care and provide them with more value for nothing at all. It works because of the conversion rate I have.

Thanks for your suggestion!

Thanks
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serryjw

10 years ago

I have read the entire thread and what you need is a great USP. You must position yourself as the expert in a sub niche.. Have tried to become the chiro to the local Jr College sports teams? OR Write Advertorials to PARENTs on how to prevent sport injuries....post a video version of this to YT and FB.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by serryjw

I have read the entire thread and what you need is a great USP. You must position yourself as the expert in a sub niche.. Have tried to become the chiro to the local Jr College sports teams? OR Write Advertorials to PARENTs on how to prevent sport injuries....post a video version of this to YT and FB.

Sorry, not familiar with the acronym USP. What is it?

Ah yes, branding myself as an expert in the sub-niche. I like to think that I've been branding myself as a sports injury and persona injury chiro. However, I've dealt with a lot of acute injuries dealing with neck/back pain from different mechanisms of injuries as well.

Not a big fan of writing. Usually get that outsourced.

I think that'll be more of a focus with my internet marketing strategy is focusing on sports injuries and personal injuries to brand online.

Thanks
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DABK

10 years ago

Unique selling proposition

Domino Pizza: Hot pizza in 30 minutes or it's free.

Do you have something like that?

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Sorry, not familiar with the acronym USP. What is it?

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

Unique selling proposition

Domino Pizza: Hot pizza in 30 minutes or it's free.

Do you have something like that?

Hmmm.. great point. I know some offices have "satisfaction or your money back guarantee, or get seen in 15 minutes or your appointment is free"

What would help you make a decision if you were going to a chiropractor and had a USP.. what would that be?

Thanks
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DABK

10 years ago

Never been to a Chiro. I went to a guy once who is an MD and does Chinese medicine.

I went there because 2 women close to me said i should go.

But keep in mind this: people have 'films' running in their heads about everything, including going to a chiropractor. They have a certain idea as to how the lobby is going to look, what will happen there, how the receptionist talks to them, what happens in the waiting room, how long, about what the doc(s) say and do.

About how they say and do.

Pay attention to what your best customers seem to be viewing in their heads when they come to you (their reactions, the words they use, the tone of voice).

There are places I've been to that sell yoga stuff, fragrant candles, books on mysticism. Some of them I like, some I can't wait to get out. The ones I don't like have too much yoga / mysticism / let's go back to mother nature. The ones I like have some of that and some of Barnes and Nobles / Starbucks.

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Hmmm.. great point. I know some offices have "satisfaction or your money back guarantee, or get seen in 15 minutes or your appointment is free"

What would help you make a decision if you were going to a chiropractor and had a USP.. what would that be?

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serryjw

10 years ago

Nice white paper on USP http://www.cim.co.uk/files/usp.pdf If you do it right, your clients don't care how they found you., PPC , print ads, video etc.
THINK the elevator pitch. YOU have 30 seconds to tell a future client WHY they should come to YOU, not the chiro their friend recommended. WHAT would you say?

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by serryjw

Nice white paper on USP http://www.cim.co.uk/files/usp.pdf If you do it right, your clients don't care how they found you., PPC , print ads, video etc.
THINK the elevator pitch. YOU have 30 seconds to tell a future client WHY they should come to YOU, not the chiro their friend recommended. WHAT would you say?

I will think of that for sure!

What would help you make your decision to chose me over another chiro?

Thanks

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by digichik

Each clients needs are unique, thus my marketing solutions are tailored to their situations.

I have to agree with Dan that PPC can be super expensive, even when one is an expert at PPC. Dan's other advice is spot on.

Do you have your office staff on the same page as you? Do they know how to handle the phones, to convert calls into appointments? Have you trained them on how to convert inquiries into appointments? Do you track their efforts?

Are you tracking the calls you are getting from your marketing efforts?

Are you using tracking phone numbers to know where your calls/new patients are coming from?

Do you have a pro-active rep management process in place?

Have you developed referral programs and implemented them?

Do you know how well each of your marketing tactics is doing?

How many new patients are you getting from each tactic (e.g. print ads, youtube, direct mail, radio, etc.) ?

How many visitors to your website are scheduling appointments?

Do you have a regular patient re-activation program in place?

Is your marketing fractured or is it a cohesive marketing machine--with each piece supporting the others?

Just some things to ask yourself.

Hey, awesome questions. These are all questions every business owner should be able to answer. And fortunately I can answer everyone of those. I won't bore you w/ the stats, but it is the ONLY way to optimize. Know what is working, and spend your marketing $ wisely. Cut programs that don't produce and pour money to optimize those that do.

Training is essential in my company. Everyone goes through a training process and everyone is on the same page at all times. Communication is always crystal clear and we train train train even when it's redundant. All my staff is like.. "What's the point..." you know those faces.."aww man.. again?" This way, I can trust them to do as I'd like for them do and convert. There are bonus systems in place for conversion and meeting goals. It's an incentivized system that works well when done properly. Just remember not to place too much emphasis on the bonus because it will make the staff come off a salesy and will turn off customers. Just enough to give them a little extra for doing a good job.. but the main goal is to make sure hiring staff that's passionate and believe in your vision.

What has worked well for me is the corporate events, health fairs, reactivations, internal referrals and now hopefully internet marketing.

Thank you for your wise thoughts. Don't give up on the docs just yet. There are MANY MANY MANYYYYYY from all fields that would be willing to pay you for those advice and those questions you ask. Have you tried giving a little bit of your service for free? Give them a taste and show them some VALUE before asking for a dime and they will be your loyal clients for the rest of their business career.

Thanks
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digichik

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Don't give up on the docs just yet. There are MANY MANY MANYYYYYY from all fields that would be willing to pay you for those advice and those questions you ask.

The funny thing is, after spending years avoiding marketing to the medical field, about 30% of my clients are doctors -- ENTs, pediatricians, dentists, chiros, osteopathic physicians, podiatrists, allergists, urologists, etc.

I am very selective about the medical professionals I work with. I have to enjoy what I do, and if I get an inkling of a thought that working with an individual will not be enjoyable, I refer them off.

Have you considered segmenting your marketing efforts? Marketing treatment programs for people who suffer from migraines, or new mother health maintenance (back problems from pregnancy and lots of lifting for new baby), etc.?

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DABK

10 years ago

You've gotten a lot of good advice.

I want to add that updating websites is not really necessary for ranking. You'd be better off focusing on getting links (especially links with recommendation) from people your would be clients trust.

If my dentist on his site had something about having back problems and a link to the person who fixed his back problems preceded by a few remarks regarding the awesomeness of the fix and fixer, I'd click the link. If he had a phone number, I'd call. (Assuming I had back problems, that is.)

As regards Dan Kennedy, read up.

He has something in that book about a plumber who got someone to send his clients an introduction to the plumber... direct mail. You could copy that.

Get your dentist, accountant, etc. to let you use their name in one of your direct pieces that you send to some/all of their happy, current customers.

Don't know where you live. If you open another location, think of Google when you do.

I mean, take Chicago. If you open in Chicago and you get in the 7 pack, you get seen by more than if you open in Golf (Golf is a rich but people poor suburb of Chicago, population 1,000).

You'd be #1 in Golf, but maybe not a large enough base.

Of course, in Chicago competition is fiercer.

You open in Wilmette, population's over 20k, and on the rich side, they can afford your service.

You open in Aurora, you've got over 100k people living there.. not too rich, not too poor.

Obviously, you'll have other considerations. But don't forget these ones.

And, while I'm talking Google +, make sure yours is well taken care of... And that you have reviews... Don't be afraid of the less than 5 star reviews. Unless you don't get any 5's.

I've chosen medical professionals based on their Google reviews and there's many like me out there.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

You've gotten a lot of good advice.

I want to add that updating websites is not really necessary for ranking. You'd be better off focusing on getting links (especially links with recommendation) from people your would be clients trust.

If my dentist on his site had something about having back problems and a link to the person who fixed his back problems preceded by a few remarks regarding the awesomeness of the fix and fixer, I'd click the link. If he had a phone number, I'd call. (Assuming I had back problems, that is.)

As regards Dan Kennedy, read up.

He has something in that book about a plumber who got someone to send his clients an introduction to the plumber... direct mail. You could copy that.

Get your dentist, accountant, etc. to let you use their name in one of your direct pieces that you send to some/all of their happy, current customers.

I'll have to add that book to my collection. I have reached out to other professions to exchange links and reviews. I still need to do more. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by digichik

Have you considered segmenting your marketing efforts? Marketing treatment programs for people who suffer from migraines, or new mother health maintenance (back problems from pregnancy and lots of lifting for new baby), etc.?

No, I haven't. That's actually something I'm implementing onto my internet marketing. Targeting specific needs.. i.e. headaches, personal injury, sports injury, wellness.. etc.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Thanks

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TakenAction

10 years ago

I know your mindset is all on the online paid methods and that's fine (I recommend FB advertising) but I really think you should check into direct mail.

you could get set up with a direct mail campaign fairly quickly and that could bring in results very quickly. Send out some postcards to homes in your local area with a special offer of sorts and it would be a pretty cheap method of getting some new appointments.

As with everything, there is a learning curve so I recommend checking out some direct mail threads on here and you can really start getting some ideas together & you can start to see how powerful direct mail can really be.

best of luck.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TakenAction

I know your mindset is all on the online paid methods and that's fine (I recommend FB advertising) but I really think you should check into direct mail.

you could get set up with a direct mail campaign fairly quickly and that could bring in results very quickly. Send out some postcards to homes in your local area with a special offer of sorts and it would be a pretty cheap method of getting some new appointments.

As with everything, there is a learning curve so I recommend checking out some direct mail threads on here and you can really start getting some ideas together & you can start to see how powerful direct mail can really be.

best of luck.

Although I know direct mail works, I'm not too fond of it. Anything that deals with print I'm not a big fan of. Poor conversion rates for me. Possibly great for other types of business, but chiropractic, not so good. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Thanks
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DWolfe

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Although I know direct mail works, I'm not too fond of it. Anything that deals with print I'm not a big fan of. Poor conversion rates for me. Possibly great for other types of business, but chiropractic, not so good. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Have you ever seen anything by Dan S. Kennedy. He has a book called The Ultimate Marketing Plan, I have the 4th Edition and on page 64 he discusses how he set up a testimonial for a Chiropractor.

Dan shows the add on page 65. You could find this at a Barnes & Nobel on your spare time and review it. The newsletter could help give you ideas how to make print convert. IMHO

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TakenAction

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Although I know direct mail works, I'm not too fond of it. Anything that deals with print I'm not a big fan of. Poor conversion rates for me. Possibly great for other types of business, but chiropractic, not so good. Thanks for your suggestion though.

Not to offend or anything. But I am going to guess you tried it once or twice and failed or your expectations were not reached because the right offer sent to the right targeted people will return with a nice ROI 9 times out of 10.

You could do a small test of 1,000 homes with some postcards and it would run you a couple hundred dollars. Maybe ask around for some help on the copy-writing of the piece as well as the design and your almost ready to go, you could rent a list or even get a list free from referenceUSA or something.

I would check out or reach out to Bob Ross. He's kinda the direct mail guy around here and he could help you create a highly profitable campaign i'm sure.

I just don't want you to overlook direct mail as something you won't use because it hasn't gone well for you in the past. Because, I believe it to be a very strong form of advertising that could be incorporated into almost any business. I'm also going to go against what you said, I believe it could be used to promote a chiropractic business very well if done right.

as always, best of luck.

PS- If you really want to expand your business and get your phone ringing off the hook, I'm tellin' ya incorporate direct mail in your marketing plan.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TakenAction

Not to offend or anything. But I am going to guess you tried it once or twice and failed or your expectations were not reached because the right offer sent to the right targeted people will return with a nice ROI 9 times out of 10.

You could do a small test of 1,000 homes with some postcards and it would run you a couple hundred dollars. Maybe ask around for some help on the copy-writing of the piece as well as the design and your almost ready to go, you could rent a list or even get a list free from referenceUSA or something.

I would check out or reach out to Bob Ross. He's kinda the direct mail guy around here and he could help you create a highly profitable campaign i'm sure.

I just don't want you to overlook direct mail as something you won't use because it hasn't gone well for you in the past. Because, I believe it to be a very strong form of advertising that could be incorporated into almost any business. I'm also going to go against what you said, I believe it could be used to promote a chiropractic business very well if done right.

as always, best of luck.

PS- If you really want to expand your business and get your phone ringing off the hook, I'm tellin' ya incorporate direct mail in your marketing plan.

No offense taken. You are right, I tried it, but it probably wasn't anywhere near the best of campaigns. I've seen and read about direct mail and the effectiveness of it. I will have to seek out Mr. Ross for his expertise when I visit that path again.

Thanks for your reference!

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longrobnc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Although I know direct mail works, I'm not too fond of it. Anything that deals with print I'm not a big fan of. Poor conversion rates for me. Possibly great for other types of business, but chiropractic, not so good. Thanks for your suggestion though.

I own a local brick and mortar service business. I have consistently lost money doing postcards to my list and EDDMs. I get leads, but they are way too expensive. We do much better calling our customers to gain new sales. I have a staff member that sits 40 hours a week and calls our customers and rates their experience and ask for referrals. Everyone gets a call 3-4 times a year.

From mailing to my list I often get less than 5 calls from a 5k PC campaign. I get leads at a fraction of the cost from coupon packs like Valpak and Money Mailer. I also do pretty well in local coupon related magazines. Same offers, much better results. I've actually seen chiros in the packets.

I also do pretty well with Google/Yahoo PPC. It's my most profitable paid lead source by a wide margin. However, my SEO campaign is improving. The important thing for us is to call track all leads sources and listen to the calls. You'd be surprised how your trusted employees function when no one is watching or listening. They will dust your leads without a 2nd thought.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by longrobnc

I own a local brick and mortar service business. I have consistently lost money doing postcards to my list and EDDMs. I get leads, but they are way too expensive. We do much better calling our customers to gain new sales. I have a staff member that sits 40 hours a week and calls our customers and rates their experience and ask for referrals. Everyone gets a call 3-4 times a year.

From mailing to my list I often get less than 5 calls from a 5k PC campaign. I get leads at a fraction of the cost from coupon packs like Valpak and Money Mailer. I also do pretty well in local coupon related magazines. Same offers, much better results. I've actually seen chiros in the packets.

I also do pretty well with Google/Yahoo PPC. It's my most profitable paid lead source by a wide margin. However, my SEO campaign is improving. The important thing for us is to call track all leads sources and listen to the calls. You'd be surprised how your trusted employees function when no one is watching or listening. They will dust your leads without a 2nd thought.

I can relate to your last statement regarding employees. They must be trained properly and re-trained to freshen their memories. Practice drilling w/ them and making it fun usually helps as I've found out.

Thanks

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Peter Lessard

10 years ago

Nice to see an interesting discussion has been taking place.
I commend you on not having your feathers easily ruffled by some of the comments.
I personally have never encountered anyone in your profession or similar that was any more annoying or full of themselves than I can be on some days ;-)

Now to continue this discussion you made a statement I would like to address that illustrates the point that if an experiment is not conducted by someone properly qualified the conclusions can be way off base. It is why I also said it would be impossible for me to best advise you on ALL the things you should be doing, it is too dynamic and too granular. You know the old saying a about knowing just enough about something to be dangerous? Lets deal with just one.

You stated:
"I have tried Adwords in the past and realize they are way to expensive and ROI is not very good. It is saturated for sure with my local market. Not worth it."

I can tell you from 15 years experience this is totally inaccurate and I could write an entire book about why ( first chapter below lol ).
The direct answer is YOUR adwords setup was no good! Had you had an Adwords rockstar handling it for you, you would swear by adwords.

The exact same thing will happen with Facebook and ANY other initiative. Do you ever have patients tell you something will not work for them because DR. X tried it and you just smile and tell them well I am not DR. X. Well this is the same scenario with most marketing test conclusions when someone who knows what they are doing takes over.

SOME INFO ABOUT ADWORDS AND YOUR SITUATION:

(NOTE: I am just glossing over and adwords is just a tiny piece of an overall marketing strategy. I am playing devils advocate a bit here)

1. At bare minimum you ALWAYS have adwords running for your brand name, your name and derivatives. Example "Bobs Chiro, Bobs Chiro Reviews". Why? Go search your practice name I bet your competitors ppc ads will show up especially if chiro, chiropractic etc.. is in your brand name. Now imagine this horrible marketing nightmare. You spend your money and time to advertise somewhere else (mall, signs, radio, whatever) and some folks decide to seek you out online. You have already done the heavy lifting by spending the bucks, generating interest and the prospect is actively seeking you out. They run a Google search for you and at the top of the page is your competitor with a juicy ad addressing the same problem and offering some time limited discount too irresistible to turn down. YOU just PAID for your competitor to get a new client and did not make sure you were front and center when they looked for you. Marketing is a funnel and the placement of Google top ads puts your funnel at risk of failing if you do not appear there.

2. The cost of your clicks is influenced by the quality/context of your landing pages

so it may have been expensive for you but no so much for someone that took the proper time and testing to get costs down and to get creative with their keywords, bids and landing pages. Adwords itself could be a full time job for someone. I have worked on campaigns with spends greater than 100k/month and you cannot imagine how granular you can get. Campaings must be massaged and aged. I know businesses that would kill to keep their campaigns, results and history private.

3. Making adwords profitable is rather easy for someone with experience! Note that does NOT mean you will automatically get tons of new clients but it is child's play for someone experienced to guarantee a positive ROI and then just keep scaling and testing.
Example. Everyone buys "[city] chiropractor" and of course that is expensive and does not convert well. But I could buy the key phrases "[city] emergency chiro" and run it only in the evenings and weekends/holiday when I wanted to handle emergency cases or when I know my competitor is closed!. Imagine and ad that read "I am the only one open today". Obviously there would be limited clicks BUT the conversion rate with a proper ad and landing page would be fantastic.

WHAT REALLY SHOULD SCARE ANY BUSINESS

If your competitor can show ads and make profit and you cannot you should not rest until you fix the underlying issues that allow him to be in the green and you in the red because it is affecting every aspect of your business AND I can guarantee at least one of your competitors is cashing in. I can tell you there is one in every city in every niche making huge bank using adwords, I know because I have seen the numbers for 15 years having worked on thousands of campaigns across various niches. I have been in the position of talking to two business owners in direct competition with each other. One stating adwords does not work, the other stating if they only knew how much money we make with adwords.

If I was in your business I would not stop until I could make adwords profitable because that exercise in and of itself would force improvements all across the board.

Think of it this way. First assume there is at least one of your competitors making a great profit and growing his business from adwords. What more direct competition could you have with a competitor than being side by side with ads/pages/offers and seeing who wins the return on investment game? What frustrates me as a marketer is a business goes head to head, gets a bloody nose and assumes this is too expensive or does not work. The truth is it works just fine for the one guy that has figured it out and ignoring it costs you money.

The life cycle I have seen with adwords.
Someone not highly skilled sets it up, the campaign is not aged, massaged and ongoing tests are not performed. The ads are not great, the landing pages are not great. It does not deliver positive return on investment. Then somehow showing a hungry prospect your ad and offer at the exact moment they need you starts to seem like a bad idea and you run off into the land of passive/wishful marketing. Things like maybe if we put up baby pics on our facebook and have a contest one day someone will have a sore back and remember us ;-)

Does that not sound absurd when at this very moment someone needs what you sell and you could buy the opportunity to pitch them right now!

ANY form of advertising is too expensive when not properly executed.

Well that is my rant on ppc :-)
I will be back when you have spent $500 on facebook ads only to get a 100 followers and have determined that is too expensive as well ;-)

Again this is all in good fun and I did say I was playing devils advocate.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by plessard

Nice to see an interesting discussion has been taking place.
I commend you on not having your feathers easily ruffled by some of the comments.
I personally have never encountered anyone in your profession or similar that was any more annoying or full of themselves than I can be on some days ;-)

Now to continue this discussion you made a statement I would like to address that illustrates the point that if an experiment is not conducted by someone properly qualified the conclusions can be way off base. It is why I also said it would be impossible for me to best advise you on ALL the things you should be doing, it is too dynamic and too granular. You know the old saying a about knowing just enough about something to be dangerous? Lets deal with just one.

You stated:
"I have tried Adwords in the past and realize they are way to expensive and ROI is not very good. It is saturated for sure with my local market. Not worth it."

I can tell you from 15 years experience this is totally inaccurate and I could write an entire book about why ( first chapter below lol ).
The direct answer is YOUR adwords setup was no good! Had you had an Adwords rockstar handling it for you, you would swear by adwords.

The exact same thing will happen with Facebook and ANY other initiative. Do you ever have patients tell you something will not work for them because DR. X tried it and you just smile and tell them well I am not DR. X. Well this is the same scenario with most marketing test conclusions when someone who knows what they are doing takes over.

SOME INFO ABOUT ADWORDS AND YOUR SITUATION:

(NOTE: I am just glossing over and adwords is just a tiny piece of an overall marketing strategy. I am playing devils advocate a bit here)

1. At bare minimum you ALWAYS have adwords running for your brand name, your name and derivatives. Example "Bobs Chiro, Bobs Chiro Reviews". Why? Go search your practice name I bet your competitors ppc ads will show up especially if chiro, chiropractic etc.. is in your brand name. Now imagine this horrible marketing nightmare. You spend your money and time to advertise somewhere else (mall, signs, radio, whatever) and some folks decide to seek you out online. You have already done the heavy lifting by spending the bucks, generating interest and the prospect is actively seeking you out. They run a Google search for you and at the top of the page is your competitor with a juicy ad addressing the same problem and offering some time limited discount too irresistible to turn down. YOU just PAID for your competitor to get a new client and did not make sure you were front and center when they looked for you. Marketing is a funnel and the placement of Google top ads puts your funnel at risk of failing if you do not appear there.

2. The cost of your clicks is influenced by the quality/context of your landing pages

so it may have been expensive for you but no so much for someone that took the proper time and testing to get costs down and to get creative with their keywords, bids and landing pages. Adwords itself could be a full time job for someone. I have worked on campaigns with spends greater than 100k/month and you cannot imagine how granular you can get. Campaings must be massaged and aged. I know businesses that would kill to keep their campaigns, results and history private.

3. Making adwords profitable is rather easy for someone with experience! Note that does NOT mean you will automatically get tons of new clients but it is child's play for someone experienced to guarantee a positive ROI and then just keep scaling and testing.
Example. Everyone buys "[city] chiropractor" and of course that is expensive and does not convert well. But I could buy the key phrases "[city] emergency chiro" and run it only in the evenings and weekends/holiday when I wanted to handle emergency cases or when I know my competitor is closed!. Imagine and ad that read "I am the only one open today". Obviously there would be limited clicks BUT the conversion rate with a proper ad and landing page would be fantastic.

WHAT REALLY SHOULD SCARE ANY BUSINESS

If your competitor can show ads and make profit and you cannot you should not rest until you fix the underlying issues that allow him to be in the green and you in the red because it is affecting every aspect of your business AND I can guarantee at least one of your competitors is cashing in. I can tell you there is one in every city in every niche making huge bank using adwords, I know because I have seen the numbers for 15 years having worked on thousands of campaigns across various niches. I have been in the position of talking to two business owners in direct competition with each other. One stating adwords does not work, the other stating if they only knew how much money we make with adwords.

If I was in your business I would not stop until I could make adwords profitable because that exercise in and of itself would force improvements all across the board.

Think of it this way. First assume there is at least one of your competitors making a great profit and growing his business from adwords. What more direct competition could you have with a competitor than being side by side with ads/pages/offers and seeing who wins the return on investment game? What frustrates me as a marketer is a business goes head to head, gets a bloody nose and assumes this is too expensive or does not work. The truth is it works just fine for the one guy that has figured it out and ignoring it costs you money.

The life cycle I have seen with adwords.
Someone not highly skilled sets it up, the campaign is not aged, massaged and ongoing tests are not performed. The ads are not great, the landing pages are not great. It does not deliver positive return on investment. Then somehow showing a hungry prospect your ad and offer at the exact moment they need you starts to seem like a bad idea and you run off into the land of passive/wishful marketing. Things like maybe if we put up baby pics on our facebook and have a contest one day someone will have a sore back and remember us ;-)

Does that not sound absurd when at this very moment someone needs what you sell and you could buy the opportunity to pitch them right now!

ANY form of advertising is too expensive when not properly executed.

Well that is my rant on ppc :-)
I will be back when you have spent $500 on facebook ads only to get a 100 followers and have determined that is too expensive as well ;-)

Again this is all in good fun and I did say I was playing devils advocate.

I'm here to learn and take all the suggestions with an open mind. I think everyone has done an awesome job giving me their opinions and they are all very valuable. I believe these are analysis you have to make to be successful.

As for adwords, I agree and disagree w/ you. Initially it was poorly set up, by me, and I did not see any results. I got someone who is the "expert" at it, results increased, but not as much as I'd hope. I still think better alternatives right now are traffic from FB Ads. At the end of day I think having both implemented would be nice, but there are better ways to spend my marketing $.. getting more bang for the buck. When everyone in your market is doing adwords.. I tend to go to the other mediums that none to few are doing.

By the way, in your experience, what was the budget for adwords for these successful campaigns?

I'm saying not saying it isn't expensive, but when I'm using that kind of money, I'd like to focus and implement on campaigns that get the most ROI. I think different variables come into play to which type of marketing campaigns work for different businesses and circumstances. I'm simply looking to optimize my marketing campaigns and focus on the top producing campaigns.

Your input on your experience is greatly appreciated

Thanks

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Matt Lee

10 years ago

Awesome advice by some great offline marketers here. After reading (most) of the thread, I just wanted to chime in with 1 tidbit.

You had mentioned that you've tried adwords, but you didn't like price of the clicks and the ROI. - I totally agree adwords is super spendy.

Now, I don't work with any dentists at the moment, but I do work with a few plastic surgeons and we're having the most success with Facebook Ads - Love it or hate it, you can really dial in to your target customer - You just have to know how to put a compelling ad together, and the proper incentive to encourage them to click.

Facebook ads are (a lot) cheaper, which yields more clicks for your money with a platform 100% of your customers are already using every single day.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Lee

Awesome advice by some great offline marketers here. After reading (most) of the thread, I just wanted to chime in with 1 tidbit.

You had mentioned that you've tried adwords, but you didn't like price of the clicks and the ROI. - I totally agree adwords is super spendy.

Now, I don't work with any dentists at the moment, but I do work with a few plastic surgeons and we're having the most success with Facebook Ads - Love it or hate it, you can really dial in to your target customer - You just have to know how to put a compelling ad together, and the proper incentive to encourage them to click.

Facebook ads are (a lot) cheaper, which yields more clicks for your money with a platform 100% of your customers are already using every single day.

That's what I've experienced as well with FB ads vs Adwords. But, plessard has a point that if someone who was an expert at Adwords and really optimize, can also become beneficial. Two poles in the water is better than one!

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Matt Lee

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

That's what I've experienced as well with FB ads vs Adwords. But, plessard has a point that if someone who was an expert at Adwords and really optimize, can also become beneficial. Two poles in the water is better than one!

Expert or not - Google Adwords is expensive. Plus it only yields about 7-10% click ratio. Meaning that most people are clicking the organic "natural" listings on page one and a bunch of people are fighting over a couple spots @ the top positions. I'm not saying that you can't make money using them - of course you can, it's just really saturated, and really expensive.

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Peter Lessard

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Lee

Expert or not - Google Adwords is expensive. Plus it only yields about 7-10% click ratio. Meaning that most people are clicking the organic "natural" listings on page one and a bunch of people are fighting over a couple spots @ the top positions. I'm not saying that you can't make money using them - of course you can, it's just really saturated, and really expensive.

At face value I agree all things said and done it can be expensive
but in reality I know tons of business owners (chiro, dentist, lawyer) that have followed this path in aggressive niches. They lock into an seo contracts for 12 months at 2k/month and half the time their money evaporates because the supposed seo guru sucks and they end up with very little sales. That is $24,000! That's expensive. I also know many that drop 15 to 25k in print via magazine etc.. again with little results. At least with ppc you can know daily what is happening and the cost of entry is very low. You can CHOOSE to make it expensive.

Most of the successful businesses I know drop a fair bit on ppc and it is not their top performing channel from a return on investment point of view but it is profitable so they don't really care about the expensive or not aspect just that it makes them more than it costs them.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Lee

Expert or not - Google Adwords is expensive. Plus it only yields about 7-10% click ratio. Meaning that most people are clicking the organic "natural" listings on page one and a bunch of people are fighting over a couple spots @ the top positions. I'm not saying that you can't make money using them - of course you can, it's just really saturated, and really expensive.

Adwords has it's purposes for certain niches. It can get some good traffic for cheap. For the most part though, it is saturated and highly competitive making CPC higher. I'm shooting to learn FB traffic, then twitter, then pintrest is coming out with its ad platform, so these are newer traffic sources that can be very effective when done right and CPC will be cheaper!

Thanks

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Now, so far, this is what I've gathered to formulate a strategic plan of action for internet marketing. Please critique the strategy and what would you do differently? Add? Change? or Totally just cross off.

1) SEO --> Google, yahoo, bing (content heavy, link building, long tail keywords, etc)
2) Google Places ranking for specific keywords
3) PPC --> FB Ads and Adwords --> link to opt-in page, sales page, build list/fans, e-mail capture w/ opt-in to the specific niche.
4) SMM --> active dialogue with fans regarding sports injury and personal injury.
5) e-Newletters? Youtube videos?

Anything else you guys can think of?

Thanks again! Hope everyone has a great memorial day weekend! Be safe.

Thanks

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Many really good suggestions in this thread, and some took a lot of time to write all they did.

Jay Abraham and Todd Brown should also be in your on or offline marketing "library".

Jay, I think, popularized the term USP
Unique selling proposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have non-IM points.

If you have not already addressed it to yourself, what is the whole experience
of dealing with your office like? From first call or visit to treatments and billing...

Do you want to do business with you?
What is special?
What will cause good reactivation, and repeat and referral business?
What will cause four and five star reviews and testimonials?
Is there a long wait period and how well to you communicate/minimize the cue?
Is the waiting room a way above average experience - décor, comfortable, wifi, TV,
coffee, tea, juices (One of Abraham's doctor or dentist clients made this awesome
and it really, really significantly increased revenues.)

Sponsor local sport teams and non-profit events where major and minor
local sports figures will get involved.

Get free or low-cost publicity by contributing to print, TV, and radio media.

Follow and be helpful to local topic related press members on social media.

Dan

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Many really good suggestions in this thread, and some took a lot of time to write all they did.

Jay Abraham and Todd Brown should also be in your on or offline marketing "library".

Jay, I think, popularized the term USP
Unique selling proposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have non-IM points.

If you have not already addressed it to yourself, what is the whole experience
of dealing with your office like? From first call or visit to treatments and billing...

Do you want to do business with you?
What is special?
What will cause good reactivation, and repeat and referral business?
What will cause four and five star reviews and testimonials?
Is there a long wait period and how well to you communicate/minimize the cue?
Is the waiting room a way above average experience - décor, comfortable, wifi, TV,
coffee, tea, juices (One of Abraham's doctor or dentist clients made this awesome
and it really, really significantly increased revenues.)

Sponsor local sport teams and non-profit events where major and minor
local sports figures will get involved.

Get free or low-cost publicity by contributing to print, TV, and radio media.

Follow and be helpful to local topic related press members on social media.

Dan

Thanks for the suggestion. I do need to make my practice a little bit more special. I will focus on that as well. So far, the things I have is great decor, not the doctor's office feel. Personable with all patients. Just really listening to their problems allowing them the necessary time to TALK (this often gets long winded.. so I know when to stop them.. but they don't ever feel rushed)

I always try to take the opportunity when there's low cost or free publicity! Always helps.

TV and Radio, I'd like to do that on a consistent basis rather than a one time deal. In order for me to do that, I'd have to generate more revenue. I hope to bring that w/ the internet marketing.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheChiropractor

Thanks for the suggestion. I do need to make my practice a little bit more special. I will focus on that as well. So far, the things I have is great decor, not the doctor's office feel. Personable with all patients. Just really listening to their problems allowing them the necessary time to TALK (this often gets long winded.. so I know when to stop them.. but they don't ever feel rushed)

I always try to take the opportunity when there's low cost or free publicity! Always helps.

TV and Radio, I'd like to do that on a consistent basis rather than a one time deal. In order for me to do that, I'd have to generate more revenue. I hope to bring that w/ the internet marketing.

Actually, free except for your time. The journalists in all media need experts they can go to
for information for whatever they are covering. So it's more along the lines of developing a
relationship with them so they contact you. Imagine being the guy who was on the
Indianapolis or Denver local TV news explaining Peyton Manning's neck injury and surgeries,
or something for common health issues. Hopefully recurring frequently. Or, writing a
regular column for the local paper and popular local blogs. (You have already, or will
create a lot of written content anyway.)

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ewenmack

10 years ago

Great discussion going on here guys.

Chiro, now you're getting lots of ideas to implement.

The next step is to create a system so things get done
and growth is assured.

We do this by chunking everything into
5 areas...

LEADS
CONVERSION
AVERAGE DOLLAR OF TRANSACTION
FREQUENCY OF TRANSACTIONS
MARGINS

Working on all 5 areas simultaneously and you get
exponential growth.

And the great thing about it is you don't
have to have big lifts in each area to get big gains in profitability.

Having a baseline where you can see your numbers at the end of the week
allows you to see how you are tracking, therefore allows you not to only catch things early on,
but allows you to feel in control.

Get that working as a well oiled machine, and you now have a repeatable business model.

This allows you to have options...like open other locations,
build to sell, get out of the business and have more time to do other
interesting things.

It looks like you have the mental capicity to produce it.

Best,
Ewen

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

Great discussion going on here guys.

Chiro, now you're getting lots of ideas to implement.

The next step is to create a system so things get done
and growth is assured.

We do this by chunking everything into
5 areas...

LEADS
CONVERSION
AVERAGE DOLLAR OF TRANSACTION
FREQUENCY OF TRANSACTIONS
MARGINS

Working on all 5 areas simultaneously and you get
exponential growth.

And the great thing about it is you don't
have to have big lifts in each area to get big gains in profitability.

Having a baseline where you can see your numbers at the end of the week
allows you to see how you are tracking, therefore allows you not to only catch things early on,
but allows you to feel in control.

Get that working as a well oiled machine, and you now have a repeatable business model.

This allows you to have options...like open other locations,
build to sell, get out of the business and have more time to do other
interesting things.

It looks like you have the mental capicity to produce it.

Best,
Ewen

Ewin,

Thank you for your reply sir. I will create a system to get those 5 things in order and see if I can optimize after I collect some data!

Thanks

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Peter Lessard

10 years ago

Just wanted to reiterate that my lengthy post on google ppc was just to illustrate that we often assume an approach is dead but in reality the execution is key.

If today I had to choose between Facebook ads and Google PPC I would choose Facebook. I HATE putting that in print because marketing changes and in 6 months someone might read this and the landscape may have changed.

I still know business owners making a killing with fax blast marketing BUT their entire system is the secret to their success and the fax piece simply solves the problem of getting to the decision maker.

I would simply encourage everyone not to make conclusions and dismiss a marketing channel just because in one instance it did not provide the desired results.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Originally Posted by plessard

Just wanted to reiterate that my lengthy post on google ppc was just to illustrate that we often assume an approach is dead but in reality the execution is key.

If today I had to choose between Facebook ads and Google PPC I would choose Facebook. I HATE putting that in print because marketing changes and in 6 months someone might read this and the landscape may have changed.

I still know business owners making a killing with fax blast marketing BUT their entire system is the secret to their success and the fax piece simply solves the problem of getting to the decision maker.

I would simply encourage everyone not to make conclusions and dismiss a marketing channel just because in one instance it did not provide the desired results.

And, don't get overly dependent upon one channel or method which can change on you.
Have many ways to get business.

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9999 10 years ago

Some really great advice in here, very to the point and honest.
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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by plessard

Just wanted to reiterate that my lengthy post on google ppc was just to illustrate that we often assume an approach is dead but in reality the execution is key.

If today I had to choose between Facebook ads and Google PPC I would choose Facebook. I HATE putting that in print because marketing changes and in 6 months someone might read this and the landscape may have changed.

I still know business owners making a killing with fax blast marketing BUT their entire system is the secret to their success and the fax piece simply solves the problem of getting to the decision maker.

I would simply encourage everyone not to make conclusions and dismiss a marketing channel just because in one instance it did not provide the desired results.

I agree. There are many strategies in marketing as a whole that can work great for certain business when planned and carefully executed can produce tremendous results.

Thanks

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bizgrower

10 years ago

I was thinking to mention about "average dollar of transaction" as Ewen tagged it.

As you improve the client experience from 3 star to 4 or 5 star, you can increase
rates by say 5 to 10 % and see a lot of improvement to the bottom line to reinvest
in your business.

It works for hotels, hardly noticeable to most customers, and I don't see why it would
not work for chiro. For the hotel I manage, it has also served to weed out undesirable
customers and allowed us to install new carpet in every room... Our revenues are up
about 50K. A Super 8 manager posted in a LinkedIn group I belong to that they
increased revenues by about 100K in a year.

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ewenmack 10 years ago

It's not uncommon to double the number of bookings just by working in 1 of those 5 areas I mentioned, CONVERSION.

Just by having the people on the phone lock down bookings.

This as well as lifting prices go straight to the bottom line profit
because there is no expense to create it.

Best,
Ewen
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Rus Sells

10 years ago

WOW! I have to say that it's about time a GREAT discussion is happening again!

I have to give kudos to plessard, mainly for his first response and in particular #6.

I have also seen many local business owners who end up hiring in house SEO/Online marketing employees. I've seen the same pitfalls happen myself with some clients who I only consulted for. Many times they paid for my advice to find out that the employee never followed the advice! It was very frustrating to say the least.

The comments about PPC are spot on as well and if used properly it can have a good ROI, you also should consider using it to test your lead funnel. Especially if your existing site isn't getting a large amount or organic traffic.

It's far better to actually get lower traffic that's highly targeted which converts better then a ton of generic traffic that converts poorly.

SEO is still the best investment when it comes to ROI but there is a catch to SEO. You better be doing it right or you're going to run into trouble with the search engines. Namely Google!

One thing that hasn't changed is the buying process.
Each person is in a different phase of the buying process and there are basically 5 of them.

Problem recognition
Information search
Alternative evaluation
Purchase decision
Post purchase behavior.

Many replies address different areas of these phases which is good! What I'd suggest for you is to develop a marketing plan that addresses each of these phases and inherently moves the person through the next phase.

This way you aren't just targeting the folks in the alternative evaluation phase and missing those in the two previous stages.

For example if you only target the purchase decision phase you are missing all the people in the previous 3 phases!

How does this hurt your marketing efforts?

There are more people in the problem recognition phase then there are in the buying phase and the numbers decrease further down the path to purchase.

Your goal should be to capture as many as possible at the top and move them along down to the post purchase behavior phase.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Here's an example for something you can target that is pretty much all low competition in regards to SEO and PPC.

Thoracic outlet syndrome!
There are 49 "closely" related keyword searches for that term and the MOST expensive PPC bid price is about 8 bucks per click however, the vast majority are well under $1 dollar per click and the competition is considered low. Combined the low competition phrases outnumber the total searches for the highest priced phrase!

Now what you have to answer is what phase of the buying process is some one in when they search these terms and develop the funnel to capture then and move them through to becoming a paying patient!

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gjabiz

10 years ago

Doc,

You've fallen in love with the IDEA of IM. It is a great marketing channel, no doubt about it.

But, in my opinion, you are putting the IM cart before the more business horse.

I'm in Akron, OH. I worked for a Chiropractor, he had one of the largest practices in the country, launched many a career in the business. He OWNED his section of town. Maybe this business has changed, I don't know, but here people won't drive from Akron to Cleveland for your services.

I think you need to build your practice while you are building your knowledge of the IM channel for marketing your business.

gjabiz

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

How do you know his practice isn't already successful? I get the impression that it is and that he wants to increase that success through an online marketing campaign.

Originally Posted by gjabiz

Doc,

You've fallen in love with the IDEA of IM. It is a great marketing channel, no doubt about it.

But, in my opinion, you are putting the IM cart before the more business horse.

I'm in Akron, OH. I worked for a Chiropractor, he had one of the largest practices in the country, launched many a career in the business. He OWNED his section of town. Maybe this business has changed, I don't know, but here people won't drive from Akron to Cleveland for your services.

I think you need to build your practice while you are building your knowledge of the IM channel for marketing your business.

If you want, contact me, I'll give you his name and share how he built his very successful practice.

gjabiz

PS. This has been the kind of thread we need more of at WF, informative, expert contribution and a willingness on the OP (original poster, you) to take all suggestions and not fight for his preconceived ideas. Go ahead, love IM, eventually...but build your practice up while doing it in the tested and proven methods that have a track record of success.

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gjabiz

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

How do you know his practice isn't already successful? I get the impression that it is and that he wants to increase that success through an online marketing campaign.

I get the impression he wants to grow his practice. It may be amazing. He wants to increase his revenue...as he sez:

"TV and Radio, I'd like to do that on a consistent basis rather than a one time deal. In order for me to do that, I'd have to generate more revenue. I hope to bring that w/ the internet marketing. "

He wants more REVENUE, and would like it from IM...and what I said was...is...

if you want to build yor revenue, why not do what guys with the largest practices in the country are doing? BEFORE you get with the IM program, increase your revenue with tested and proven methods so as to be able to afford to test anything you want.

Never assumed he wasn't successful. Assumed he wants to grow.

gjabiz

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Actually how successful or not his practice is is irrelevant. He came here asking about strategies for marketing and growing his business by leveraging the internet.

To me it appeared you kinda dumped on him when you said he's fallen in love with the idea of IM.

I always find it interesting when some one says something to this effect...

Hey you're not doing it right yadda yadda yadda, but hey if you want me to share with you how do it right send me a PM.

Sorta what you said in so many words, and most of the people who contribute here frown on that sort of activity.

Originally Posted by gjabiz

I get the impression he wants to grow his practice. It may be amazing. He wants to increase his revenue...as he sez:

"TV and Radio, I'd like to do that on a consistent basis rather than a one time deal. In order for me to do that, I'd have to generate more revenue. I hope to bring that w/ the internet marketing. "

He wants more REVENUE, and would like it from IM...and what I said was...is...

if you want to build yor revenue, why not do what guys with the largest practices in the country are doing? BEFORE you get with the IM program, increase your revenue with tested and proven methods so as to be able to afford to test anything you want.

Never assumed he wasn't successful. Assumed he wants to grow.

gjabiz

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gjabiz

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Actually how successful or not his practice is is irrelevant. He came here asking about strategies for marketing and growing his business by leveraging the internet.

To me it appeared you kinda dumped on him when you said he's fallen in love with the idea of IM.

I always find it interesting when some one says something to this effect...

Hey you're not doing it right yadda yadda yadda, but hey if you want me to share with you how do it right send me a PM.

Sorta what you said in so many words, and most of the people who contribute here frown on that sort of activity.

You are right. And I have nothing for him re: increasing his revenue via IM. My bad.

gjabiz

PS. I have edited the post, don't need to be contacted. I can't help with IM on this.

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

Well whether you have something of value to share with him or not, the spirit of the forum is that we usually share so all can benefit. That's all I'm saying...

Originally Posted by gjabiz

You are right. And I have nothing for him re: increasing his revenue via IM. My bad.

gjabiz

PS. I have edited the post, don't need to be contacted. I can't help with IM on this.

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gjabiz

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Well whether you have something of value to share with him or not, the spirit of the forum is that we usually share so all can benefit. That's all I'm saying...

If one chiropractor made contact with another, that's one thing. Putting anyone's personal contact on a forum isn't right TO ME.

So, I don't see how ALL would benefit, No worries,

I was trying to help ONE guy...didn't think ALL would benefit, again, no big deal here.

gjabiz

I'm done here.

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Marvin Johnston

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Well whether you have something of value to share with him or not, the spirit of the forum is that we usually share so all can benefit. That's all I'm saying...

Rus, your posts are usually very helpful. But I do not understand at all your comments to gjabiz.

His advice is normally considered to be gold, and you seem to be dismissing his comments. He is one of the relatively few active people on this forum who has more real high level experience than most of the forum put together.

Rather than just dismiss his comments, it might be better for you to think about what you are missing in reading them.

And I agree with other posters, this has been one of the better discussions taking place. I hope others will also mark this with a gold five star rating.

Marvin

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

I'm lost! The point was that if some one has great ideas to share with a poster why not just share it so every one here can benefit instead of telling some one to send a PM.

The sharing it part is in the "spirit" of the forums, not PM me and I'll share. That's all I'm trying to say!

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Rus, your posts are usually very helpful. But I do not understand at all your comments to gjabiz.

His advice is normally considered to be gold, and you seem to be dismissing his comments. He is one of the relatively few active people on this forum who has more real high level experience than most of the forum put together.

Rather than just dismiss his comments, it might be better for you to think about what you are missing in reading them.

And I agree with other posters, this has been one of the better discussions taking place. I hope others will also mark this with a gold five star rating.

Marvin

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Marvin Johnston

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I'm lost! The point was that if some one has great ideas to share with a poster why not just share it so every one here can benefit instead of telling some one to send a PM.

The sharing it part is in the "spirit" of the forums, not PM me and I'll share. That's all I'm trying to say!

One interesting thing I see all the time is people making comments where the readers/listeners don't fully grasp what is being said. Kind of like answering the question someone *thought* was asked instead of the question that *was* asked.

I tend to be very careful when calling someone out. Too frequently, I see later on what *was* said instead of what *I thought* was said. About that time, I wish I hadn't posted at all.

For me, I see gold in a lot of the comments made in this discussion, and have passed the link onto several people who could benefit.

Marvin

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misterme

10 years ago

I would just arrange to speak at a golf club dinner about an adjustment you do that eases the golfer's swing and makes his drive more powerful. Cha ching.

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TheChiropractor

10 years ago

Wow, thank you so much for all your input. There are definitely great IDEAS given for sure!

Just an update of where I am with internet marketing and current status of my business so you all can have a better understanding of where I'd like to go with this.

Started my office 3.5 years ago, didn't have a clue about any business, but worked my butt off and is still thriving today. I have a good practice seeing ~80 patient visits a week and have since learned the business side of things.

These past 2 months I've began learning IM and absorbed a lot! Testing things out with FB Ads and been giving Google Adwords an attempt again. My goal was not to become the expert at those PPC techniques, but to go through the process and get a hands on understanding. This is for my knowledge so that when I am recruiting a PPC expert, I will know exactly what I am looking for and whether they're spilling out solid info or just crap. I feel like I have that knowledge now, and would like to find an EXPERT at PPC to help me build campaigns.

Who do you all recommend as the PPC guy to talk to?

Thanks again for all your help!

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Rus Sells

10 years ago

These past 2 months I've began learning IM and absorbed a lot! Testing things out with FB Ads and been giving Google Adwords an attempt again. My goal was not to become the expert at those PPC techniques, but to go through the process and get a hands on understanding. This is for my knowledge so that when I am recruiting a PPC expert, I will know exactly what I am looking for and whether they're spilling out solid info or just crap. I feel like I have that knowledge now, and would like to find an EXPERT at PPC to help me build campaigns.

And marketers come on forums like this and teach people that they don't need to understand a service to sell it to good folks like you, they just need to outsource it. Hogwash!

I'm of the opinion that if you don't understand what you need how can you know if your hiring some one who's capable enough to deliver results.

I'm glad you're taking the time to learn "how" it works so you can know you're hiring the right person for the job or if you're just getting a line of crap from them! Very smart.

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Wildfire Results

10 years ago

One of the best things you can do right now that is proven to work well in your industry is a Past Customer Reactivation Campaign. Send out a letter to patients that haven't come back in over a year. If done correctly you should convert around 20% with a good offer and the ROI will be very good. If you need some help with this feel free to reach out.

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sdentrepreneur

10 years ago

I am currently working with several Chiropractor Offices, they are actually a Franchise. I used to oversee 200+ Massage Envy Locations as well.

What is working for us right now is Google My Business Platform, VERY Targeted Facebook Ads Campaigns and Yelp !!!

Lots of great advice above, hope this helps my friend !!!

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