Wish I could fill ya in but I am newbie myself. Filtered in from youtubeville after looking up how in the heck I am supposed to get the word out about my business with telemarketing and got swindled in by Jason Kanigan (ha! I kid).

Pretty much Jason Kanigan, Claude Whitacare, Ewen, and a few others are putting out REALLY good information around here, not so much WSO this or that or even specific systems. Just some consistent things that if you read you sort of find out what their systems are about or even cobble together a myriad of insights and organize them into something that works for you.

Edit: Oh I suppose you could look them up and pay them for some of their insights too.

Andrew Cavanah as well as some of the others you've mentioned are still around.

As of late, some of my favorite members here are Bob Ross (Jake), Ewin Mack, Eddie Spangler, Jason Kanigan, Claud Whitaker, TheBigBee and there are a few others I like, too.

Watch anything from those mentioned above.

John Durham isn't a fixture anymore. As an adult, he made the choice to leverage the brand he built here as a tool to defraud scores of members via a series of "cut and run" coaching programs. He's since been banned here and is broke (arguably always has been).

Yes, the offline marketing forum has changed. I also got burned by AP, but I miss those offline threads.I learned enough (or remembered enough) to go out on my own. I rarely lurk here because of the new focus and only started coming back because of WF purchase news.

AP showed up on a couple of other forums. He was eventually outed and banned. The internet is global, but it's really a small world. I'm sure he's around somewhere laying the groundwork to scam others.

I recently stumbled upon the Bob Ross 9x12 postcard system. I think I found it while doing a search for something else. It makes me sad that I wasn't around when the thread was live. I am thinking of using it as a new profit center and as a foot in the door for my consulting work.

It's funny how I researched a bit about AP. I had no idea who he was lol.

Offline has definitely changed, but I wasn't here when those guys you mentioned were on here. I was just getting started during those times.

Definitely some guys here who are strongly helping out the offline forum. Jason has been up here a lot, but I do feel like this section of the forum has slowly died down compared to a year or two ago, but it's still steadily growing back again.

It's funny you say every other thread is about cold calling...I don't get that feel at all. I can rationally see what you're saying from appearances; however, people are just dipping in very shallowly, wanting the easy answer...not realizing it's a complex topic and they're not going to learn it overnight. I rarely find questions I can get into detail answering. It's all surface stuff. We've definitely had times in the past 2 years where discussions went much deeper.

I don't think I know who AP was. Dexx is a real pro and I've even bought some of his products. We talk on FB once in awhile and he ran for city council last year.

Besides design, and the fact freelancer now owns WF, not much has changed at all.

You still get scammers, product creators who position themselves, contributors who contribute to build their personal brand, idiots, newbies eager to learn by spending money, newbies eager to learn by spending countless hours reading threads by people who've never done anything in real life, just spouting out theory... affiliate offers out the ass, crappy products put out with rehashed material found in non-paid parts of the forum from 3 years ago... recycled and regurgitated techniques that somehow become "cutting edge"... a bunch of buzz words that essentially mean "marketing" but much sexier.

Good Ole WF... Same old stuff.

Really though, the quality of the forum in my opinion has steadily declined and probably will continue. This forum has changed from how to be able to help offline businesses with marketing, to how to pick up the phone and sell to businesses. Helping businesses "solve a problem", is just a line used nowadays to teach you how to sell to them, not how to actually solve a problem. I have nothing against cold calling, and I believe cold calling can be an effective way to get sales but it's not the only method out there. We're just going through another cold calling trend, it happens multiple times through the year... cold calling.. direct mailing.. cold walking... networking groups...linkedin...ppc.... facebook, etc. etc. etc. The forum goes through cycles.

Too many people here get caught up with selling, and different strategies to get the sale that they often only use one strategy for selling with no focus on the delivery of whatever they're selling (especially if it is service based).

I think the forum would be much better off if it stopped being about how to get your first sale, and moved towards how to deliver on your first sale.

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I apologize Jason... Obviously my post that wasn't even about you but a generalization really struck a nerve.

I should make this clear though, so you know and others know. I don't really care what you post, it doesn't interest me (generally). That's not meant to be offensive, I'm just not interested. I've liked some stuff you've posted, I like stuff that Claude has posted, Andrew, Chris Rivers, etc. but lets face it... I'm not the person you're trying to appeal to or help.

The people that interest me, are the ones that are getting started and already have some success and they're trying to figure out processes, strategies for scaling, improving operations, etc. That is what interests me. People that are learning advanced SEO and have questions that are extremely in depth... that's what I like.

Just because I don't log into WF to follow you around and read your posts and the link drops you make, doesn't mean I don't think what you have to say is valuable. It just means that it isn't what I'm interested in. Take it how you want

Characterize me as a Kanigan groupie if you must but that is simply a product of developing a business first then attempting to figure out how to sell. That is, I had all the friggin fulfillment ready to go but no clue how to generate a sale.

Just from my little perspective: being able to effectively communicate, break thru to prospective customers is everyhing.

Nutshell: without sales, you have no business.

Ok, I'll attempt to redress the balance a little. I've been around here for some time and because I took action around the time of the original AK Offline Gold thread; I've been doing this stuff full time for over 5 years.

So this is about fullfillment ...

An example of the things I do for one particular client, to justify charging $525 a day for my services.

It's not pretty, there is no magic, I operate on my own, from home, I don't outsource, and I'm not in the same league as iamnameless or other prominent contributors to this forum.

But it's real.

The client contacted me by filling in an enquiry form on my website around 18 months ago,

Here's the exact text:

"I am interested in increasing our SEO position in various markets , is this something you coudl help us with ?
I am also potentially interested in looking at other web based marketing ideas"

We talked on the phone and had a long discussion, almost an argument actually, about the work that needed doing. At one point in the discussion the client said "you sound like you don't want the work, is that the case?"

I explained that I was busy, and that I knew that I could help her, but that what she thought she wanted, wasn't what she needed.

Positioning I guess.

I told her that I'd need 2 days a month to work on her business and that the cost would be $1,050 per month.

She told me that her budget would only stretch to $525 a month

So we agreed on that, with the proviso from me that it would take twice as long to get results.

The first step was for me to request admin access to her Google Analytics account, so I could benchmark where she was in terms of traffic and stats.

In my request email, I also pointed out that the "home" nav link on her site pointed to a duplicate home page with a index.php extension, and suggested that she have her web guy fix that.

I also took a look at the site backlinks in AHREFS and highlighted that her previous seo company had over optimised for certain search terms with low level links.

And I fired up SEO Powersuite Rank Tracker and ran a rankings report.

After this initial research, my proposal was to produce a blueprint, benchmarking where "we" were now, the opportunity available, what work was required, and timescales/cost to do the work. I charged $1,050 for the blueprint.

Fulfillment:

1) I identified all the 404 errors on her site (via the seo report facility in ahrefs) and liaised with her web guy to get them 301 redirected.

2) I set up adwords campaings for a specific service that she offered. It was a fight to get her to agree to this as she'd run adwords in the past with minimal results. I checked out the previous campaign in her adwords account and told her why it hadn't worked in the past. She agreed a $300pm budget for adwords. The monthly spend is now approaching $500 because it works.

3) She buys traffic by advertising on other websites. Every time a renewal invoice comes in (2 or 3 times a month), she runs it by me. I get the traffic stats from Google Analytics, put a value on it by referencing traffic costs from ppc, visit the site in question to assess it, then make a recommendation to her.

4) I identified the primary traffic keyword (1,900 exact month searches per month) and built a couple of high quality, high pr links)

5) I added another Adwords campaign for a seasonal event

6) The site already had a "request a brochure" (actually, numerous brochures) function. This was generating approx 150 requests per month. Each request was being dealt with manually by a member of staff. In a 3 hour meeting, I convinced her to set up an Aweber account so that we could automate the reply and delivery of the pdf. That saved about 25 hours a month of manual labour.

7) I took over the running of her main email list in a different autoresponder.

8) Her web guy retired, so I liaised with his replacement on updates that he proposed. Typically, changes to the site have been made without thinking about seo consequences, page name changes for example. I catch these oversights and recommend solutions.

9) I compiled an excel spreadsheet for downloads and subscribers and update it monthly.

10) Periodically, I'll visit the website, fill in forms etc. to check that things work and to get feedback as a site user. Yesterday, for example, I noticed that the way that the mob version of the site had been set up was poor. I won't go into details, that's a post in itself. I pointed this out and suggested a solution.

That's a lot of work for $525 a month

This business owner is sharp, successful and really pushes the limits. When we meet, about twice a year, our discussions can get quite heated, but we always get to an agreed plan of action. I respect her, she respects me.

But, there's more that we can do to improve her marketing.

So yesterday, along with my suggestion about the mobile site, I also suggested that we can take this to a higher level. She asked how much? I quoted her $2,100 a month via email, at midnight, then I went to bed.

There was no reply in my inbox this morning

Then a couple of hours ago, this came in ...

"Hi tony , I am afraid that my marketing budget really won't stretch that far ....I could go up to £1k. Per month at a push ???

I would love to work with you a bit more if possible"

I haven't replied yet, but I will accept the increase in my monthly fee to $1,500 from $525 and I'm prepared to deliver whatever it takes to justify that increase. I know that I will be pushed hard.

Fairly soon, I'll be asking her for referrals, what do you think my chances are?

Doing this stuff isn't technically difficult, it just requires that you actually care about delivering value to your clients.

Yes, experience helps, but anyone, like me, can build the required experience by getting out there and doing it. I started 5 years ago by building websites for local businesses and progressed from there.

Look, I'm not sat on a beach, pushing buttons and watching money dump into my paypal account, but who is?

Tony

Hi Mike,

I get your point.

I'm happy with the deal though. I knew she'd come back with a lower offer, so I inflated my asking price to take account of that.

And I like working with her, she's engaged in the process. I find that preferable to working with companies who can, and do pay me more, but have little involvement beyond writing the cheques and occasionally asking for an update.

Tony

Interesting comments here.......

I think the Warrior Forum needs a "Sales Systems-Techniques-Experiences forum and if it did then allot of issues noted in this thread would be cleared up.

We really need to split the conversations of "fulfillment" and "sales" into two different forums.

Then we could all stay on topic vs. battling each other, as sometimes happens,

How do we send a message to the powers that be to simply do this?

I just want this forum to stay as it is. It has already changed in the last few weeks. I think it should stay as it is and just continue to Improve without having to make massive changes.

Glad things worked out between Jason and iAmNameLess.

Best of luck to everyone getting into the offline marketing world. Let's allow for this forum to grow.

@JasonKanigan man you really are an asset to this forum. A true doer and walker and talking only to call attention to action. I am willing to bet that as a whole the industry has got smarter because it is is very difficult to carry secrets and not get caught. Of course, their are shell games to found on every corner but you think your cable co and cell phone are not robbing you openly under the guise of 'service fees" and yet when a person flakes out it is emblematic of something


Come on.

Buyer BE WHERE?

I agree with IAM on what would be nice to see here on this forum along with the sales stuff.

Never see case studies, never really see someone giving a specific example of a client they have and saying what theyre going to do and asking for more ideas (Of course I don't mean giving business names/ URLS etc but I don't know it seems a lot of people are pigeon holing their clients into services that they offer rather than creating solution specific to each clients needs.

One of the main talking points I bring up with prospects/ clients is how many new clients do you want/ can you realistically handle per month ?

Is the AP thread still around to read even if it's closed?

At risk of being pegged as AP reincarnated again () here it is

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...thly-fees.html

Beware it's a monster!

FWIW Tony I liked your post. Case studies are a great way to learn and learning how to help businesses is vital - growing your business on referrals is difficult if you're not providing value to the people who will be doing the referring!

Jason, to call it 'rampant with misinformation' is a bit harsh in the least.

I read a bloke thanking you for your contributions but providing his own opinion on what things he will find valuable. Not sure that is talking smack, or worth being attacked because you have never heard of him.

Probably best to move on.

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Look I think we are getting het up on whether posts/ threads are self promotional or genuine helping, if its promotional and people end up clicking on a sig link and becoming a customer, so be it, if not, so be it, if its not promotional but people PM asking for stuff then its up to the people to sort out a business or free transaction agreement.

We are here to learn, to teach , to share and hopefully to grow , we can learn a lot by sharing and teaching just as by asking, recently , well in fact most of the time, theres been too many people (me included) willing to say 'that's not right' to the way someone does things yet how do we know for sure, theres so many ways to achieve the same (or very similar) outcomes now .

Ron nails it on the head so lets start one when I get enough time I will !

Yes, and still in some ways the most important part as you need sales to keep your operation going, but I wholeheartedly agree that there's much more to a successful business than just the ability to sell.

IAM, sales is the first step, yes and no, for me it depends what people/ businesses are providing.

Salesforce sell , Apple sell ,but they had the service /products in place and very favourably created first and now the reputation and positioning does a chunk of the selling for them

Of course we arent anywhere near that level but on say a localised field we could be similarly positioned and have a favourable reputation that does a lot of the selling for us eg case studies , proven results in related industries/ markets etc .

When first starting out I think selling is needed of course , marketing too alongside the selling, else nobody will know of the start up , many businesses then rest on their laurels somewhat and throttle down their marketing/sales efforts and become 'happy with where they are now' and that's where they remain , others reinvest money/time/skills and grow , where am I going with this , I don't know , help quick someone throw in an objection to shut me up ;-)

Ok, I object Mike

It's an unspecified objection, that you'll never be able to work out, but here's what I'm thinking ...

I know that my marketing could be better, and I know that what you're saying has legs

But hey, I'm making six figures and I have done for the last 20 years, I have a bunch of properties that I rent out to students, and if my business went under tomorrow, so what ...

You've got through because you're sharp, and I like that, it reminds me of me 30 years ago

But I have no reason to take risks, or to attempt to understand what you're talking about

Unless you got some magic beans?

We've all met these people

It's a hard sell

I just quote really big numbers and jolt them out of their comfort zone

Because at that point it's just a game

And it can be enjoyable, if whilst attempting to persuade, you forget about the money

A bit like dating ...

Tony

iAmNameless is a Boss. Read his stuff

Jason K also has really good info. Read his posts.

The forum does seem less quality then a few years ago.

I've personally found that the BEST info is buried in the longer posts of the Warriors, you can basically figure out the puzzle pieces by researching TONS!!. No single WSO or strategy is better than the other, but figuring out how the entire online / offline marketing, sales, & technology system works.....THEN finding your niche and how you can apply those strategies is the best plan for long term business success.