The one mistake in sales that isn't talked about, that you are guilty of commiting right now.

20 replies
Are you easily discouraged at the start of your calls when you hear things like:

I am in a meeting.
I am on a long-distance phone call.
Now is a bad time to talk about this.
I'm too busy to think about this right now.
Send me some information and I'll get back to you.


If you are, you are guilty of surrendering to these excuses.

Giving up here is not the same as disqualifying them as potential customers. For the first two minutes of the conversation most of what they'll tell you things that are only partially true or an outright lie to get you off the phone. This is their automatic process of resisting anyone who phones them. You need to get past their reflex by doing what most people won't - keep going

You need to be able to create opportunities for the call to continue.
The first 30 seconds of the call buys the next minute of talk time, which leads to the next minute until we have been fully welcomed inside.

The most uncomfortable point in the call is at the tipping point when the prospect is just about to let you inside. You've reached the outer limits of their comfort zone and want to return to it. One or two more questions and you will know if you have a real prospect on your hands, but you must stay in there and ride the call out all the way to end. You will need to be prepared to fight for the sale at the start.

They will want to retreat back to their comfort zone of 'Not Interested.' They are not resisting you or your product, but the context of what is occurring. They are not interested in someone calling them, and that is all they are thinking about. Be the square peg being forced through the round hole when they resist. They will expect you to fold but it's something you're simply not capable of doing..
#commiting #guilty #mistake #sales #talked
  • Profile picture of the author kruger7
    But is there not a danger that you come across too forceful? Also, did you ever record those calls you were making to show how you were calling potential clients? If so, would be very interested.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
      Originally Posted by kruger7 View Post

      But is there not a danger that you come across too forceful? Also, did you ever record those calls you were making to show how you were calling potential clients? If so, would be very interested.
      Truthfully, people get pressured by people talking 'at', them. They relax when answering questions. If I were to rattle off features and benefits and not take no for an answer, that would be considered 'forceful.', a step further and it would be harassment. But really we are comparing one approach that works with a method that doesn't, and we don't waste time with people who are absolutely not going to let us in.

      We are not trying to get submission or compliance from the prospect when we ask questions, we are looking for evidence to let us know the call is worth continuing. If we can't find a problem that we can both agree is worth solving we move on, right at the start, before any selling of the product has actually occurred. The issue is that many salespeople are too afraid to get to this point of the call in the face of objections.

      When I hear my prospects give objections at the start I compare it to when girls give you an 'Objection', when you're having a night out. They will sometimes say mean or childish things about you when you're talking. She feels like she needs to resist you otherwise you'll lose respect for her.. especially if she likes you. She doesn't really mean anything she's saying because afterall.. she's going along with whatever you're doing and obviously has the choice to say 'No.' as she is walking away.. and that would be that. Your prospects are the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesfreddyc
    Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post

    For the first two minutes of the conversation most of what they'll tell you things that are only partially true or an outright lie to get you off the phone. This is their automatic process of resisting anyone who phones them. You need to get past their reflex by doing what most people won't - keep going
    So true and I like how Oren Klaff describes this as your prospects using the primal part of the brain to process your message.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Yeah, I talked a bit about this some time ago when I mentioned that whatever the prospect says first to you is probably a lie.

    They're trying to protect themselves (this Croc Brain thing).

    If their response is highly enthusiastic, they're probably lying--wanting a free education or a quote out of you to use against other providers...and you

    If they are negative in response, they probably badly need what you offer--but are lying to protect themselves from being ripped off.

    As Matthew says, keep asking questions so you and they can get through The Uncomfortable. Some will not, but others will; and when they do, you'll be the ONLY person to have a conversation with them about your topic, because every other salesperson will have given up before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matthew North
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      Yeah, I talked a bit about this some time ago when I mentioned that whatever the prospect says first to you is probably a lie.

      They're trying to protect themselves (this Croc Brain thing).

      If their response is highly enthusiastic, they're probably lying--wanting a free education or a quote out of you to use against other providers...and you

      If they are negative in response, they probably badly need what you offer--but are lying to protect themselves from being ripped off.

      As Matthew says, keep asking questions so you and they can get through The Uncomfortable. Some will not, but others will; and when they do, you'll be the ONLY person to have a conversation with them about your topic, because every other salesperson will have given up before.
      Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard it in my first ever sales job, which was about ten years ago. It's strange how this is common knowledge yet so many salespeople turn a blind eye to something so obvious.

      You need to challenge your own comfort zone in order to draw them out of theirs. They always have the option of exercising the right to hang up on you, and some prospects do at the start of the call. There's nothing you can do except to keep going.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Originally Posted by Matthew North View Post

    Are you easily discouraged at the start of your calls when you hear things like:

    I am in a meeting.
    I am on a long-distance phone call.
    Now is a bad time to talk about this.
    I'm too busy to think about this right now.
    Send me some information and I'll get back to you.


    If you are, you are guilty of surrendering to these excuses.

    This is a fact. I actually changed the way I used to approach people and began to send emails after initial contacts with prospects whether they bought or let me give a short presentation or not. Dumb!

    Almost ALL of the people I followed up with said that they never even took the time to look at the information. The farther it got buried in their inbox, the less important it became.

    The end result? I exposed myself as a sales person. Some of those individuals now have my info and "will call me if they need something" or "send us an email if you've got something on sale".

    Yeah. I'll get right on that - NOT!

    What I'm doing now is saying "if you can spare me just 2-3 minutes of your time, I can almost guarantee that I can save you money. If you don't like what I have to say, we can simply part friends. Fair enough?"

    98% of the time they'll say yes because of fear of loss. About 1% will want an email or a mailer (NO!) and another 1% will have a different objection, of which, I'll handle accordingly.

    Bottom line - you're absolutely right, Matthew. Get them on the phone and start pitching them then or you may never get another chance.
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    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      This is a fact. I actually changed the way I used to approach people and began to send emails after initial contacts with prospects whether they bought or let me give a short presentation or not. Dumb!

      Almost ALL of the people I followed up with said that they never even took the time to look at the information. The farther it got buried in their inbox, the less important it became.

      The end result? I exposed myself as a sales person. Some of those individuals now have my info and "will call me if they need something" or "send us an email if you've got something on sale".

      Yeah. I'll get right on that - NOT!

      What I'm doing now is saying "if you can spare me just 2-3 minutes of your time, I can almost guarantee that I can save you money. If you don't like what I have to say, we can simply part friends. Fair enough?"

      98% of the time they'll say yes because of fear of loss. About 1% will want an email or a mailer (NO!) and another 1% will have a different objection, of which, I'll handle accordingly.

      Bottom line - you're absolutely right, Matthew. Get them on the phone and start pitching them then or you may never get another chance.
      Nice opener. But if you then use the approach spoke about in this thread, it will count for nothing in far too many cases. There is a reason Matthew has to spend 8 hours a day to make a sale or two a day.

      Contrary to the ridiculous notion that a business owner won't respect you if you don't get hardcore in not taking no for an answer on them, that approach is going to instantly shut most people down again after you've got them to open up. And that is the reason he has to spend all day phoning people.

      Opening them up like you'e able to do is a great skill in itself. I think you should test the 3 minute 'pitch' with short, sharp proposition of some sort that can be summed in 30 seconds and that would be too enticing to refuse for a lot of business owners.

      For example, Alex Becker of Source Wave has a proposition where he offers to rank a page of their site for a nominal fee of 25-50 dollars within two weeks or doubles the money back as he knows he can do that and rank them easy.

      It's a low risk trip wire offer for them that easily gets proves you can get results. Something really appealing.

      If you hunting down prey and then trying to press them after they've opened up, something has gone wrong.

      If you have the skill to open up 98% of people you talk to at least hear what you have to say, the worse thing to do is then act like a typical telesales person trying to corner them, which repulses most people. You should be able to get a yes or no to simple proposition and get to explain a brief bit about it and what the next step is or move on.

      You should make a fortune if you do that, and stop turning people off, which then makes you think the tactics espoused in this thread are necessary and you just need to push harder to get anywhere.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Underground View Post

        Nice opener. But if you then use the approach spoke about in this thread, it will count for nothing in far too many cases. There is a reason Matthew has to spend 8 hours a day to make a sale or two a day.

        Contrary to the ridiculous notion that a business owner won't respect you if you don't get hardcore in not taking no for an answer on them, that approach is going to instantly shut most people down again after you've got them to open up. And that is the reason he has to spend all day phoning people.

        Opening them up like you're able to do is a great skill in itself. I think you should test the 3 minute 'pitch' with short, sharp proposition of some sort that can be summed in 30 seconds and that would be too enticing to refuse for a lot of business owners.

        For example, Alex Becker of Source Wave has a proposition where he offers to rank a page of their site for a nominal fee of 25-50 dollars within two weeks or doubles the money back as he knows he can do that and rank them easy.

        It's a low risk trip wire offer for them that easily gets proves you can get results. Something really appealing.

        If you hunting down prey and then trying to press them after they've opened up, something has gone wrong.

        If you have the skill to open up 98% of people you talk to at least hear what you have to say, the worse thing to do is then act like a typical telesales person trying to corner them, which repulses most people. You should be able to get a yes or no to simple proposition and get to explain a brief bit about it and what the next step is or move on.

        You should make a fortune if you do that, and stop turning people off, which then makes you think the tactics espoused in this thread are necessary and you just need to push harder to get anywhere.

        Thanks for the input. Actually, I've been doing this for 16 of the past 21 years for other companies and myself. I just got way off track because I allowed myself to get in a poor mindset (personal life stuff) and decided to try something different with the emails. It didn't work. The emails were well written, had links to a catalog and 3 major manufacturers that I do business with, as well as a huge advantage/incentive for doing business with me.

        Bottom line, they just weren't getting read. I know that because people told me so when I did my follow-up calls. The same thing happened when I built an email list before and did monthly mailers and the same thing happened when I used to have a list of "fax only" prospects. I had one person that ever bought from the faxes and no one ever bought from the emails. I rarely ever get a reply.

        The whole objective of getting people to listen for a few minutes is to sell them something - period. The 98% figure might have been a stretch as I don't have exact figures, but let's just say "almost always".

        I do ask a few simple qualifying questions to make sure I'm not wasting time pitching the wrong things, but I'm playing the numbers game and all of the excuses that Matthew brought up are just that - excuses.

        At the same time I'm pitching them I'm also qualifying the individual to see if they're someone I want to continue to contact. I am the ruler of my own domain and am in complete control of who I do business with. I don't deal with jerks, price hagglers, negativity, etc. If the phone weighs more than usual when it's time to call someone I trash them.

        I don't do 8 hours on the phone, but usually do up to 6, depending on how I feel. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My barrier to entry is very low as well because I offer physical products in a wide price range.

        If someone's nice I'll usually give them 3-4 calls to try to build a relationship and/or make a sale, but my objective from the first call is to sell something. I try to be respectful and sometimes I will give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they tell me they need something, but I can usually tell from experience if they're giving me the runaround.

        Regarding Becker, I'm not a fan. I'll just leave it at that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

          Thanks for the input. Actually, I've been doing this for 16 of the past 21 years for other companies and myself. I just got way off track because I allowed myself to get in a poor mindset (personal life stuff) and decided to try something different with the emails. It didn't work. The emails were well written, had links to a catalog and 3 major manufacturers that I do business with, as well as a huge advantage/incentive for doing business with me.

          Bottom line, they just weren't getting read. I know that because people told me so when I did my follow-up calls. The same thing happened when I built an email list before and did monthly mailers and the same thing happened when I used to have a list of "fax only" prospects. I had one person that ever bought from the faxes and no one ever bought from the emails. I rarely ever get a reply.

          The whole objective of getting people to listen for a few minutes is to sell them something - period. The 98% figure might have been a stretch as I don't have exact figures, but let's just say "almost always".

          I do ask a few simple qualifying questions to make sure I'm not wasting time pitching the wrong things, but I'm playing the numbers game and all of the excuses that Matthew brought up are just that - excuses.

          At the same time I'm pitching them I'm also qualifying the individual to see if they're someone I want to continue to contact. I am the ruler of my own domain and am in complete control of who I do business with. I don't deal with jerks, price hagglers, negativity, etc. If the phone weighs more than usual when it's time to call someone I trash them.

          I don't do 8 hours on the phone, but usually do up to 6, depending on how I feel. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My barrier to entry is very low as well because I offer physical products in a wide price range.

          If someone's nice I'll usually give them 3-4 calls to try to build a relationship and/or make a sale, but my objective from the first call is to sell something. I try to be respectful and sometimes I will give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they tell me they need something, but I can usually tell from experience if they're giving me the runaround.

          Regarding Becker, I'm not a fan. I'll just leave it at that.

          Out of curiosity, have you ever tried to craft a proposition instead of pitch? I realize you want to screen out undesirables but this could be done pre-call and during the trial phase where you don't offer them a follow up service at the end of it.


          I don't know if you were saying your not a fan of Becker, or meant not a fan of leading with a proposition, but if it was Becker himself then the point was not follow someone one the strength of their personality, but for the method itself, which made him $400,000 in Seo clients last year.

          He got around a 10% conversion rate at doing that of people accepted the offer, which then opened up the chance to build a relationship from there. Most then become customers if your service has impressed them and gotten results. It breaks from the people phoning them up and trying to sell them on a buying decision there and then.

          You're probably been doing it for a long time and have your grove that you're content with, and I don't know how many people you actually sell or get into your funnel each day or what your objectives, but have you ever tried to come up with a proposition rather than a pitch?

          Regardless of Becker's personality, that method is used by Frank Kern, Ryan Deiss, Perry Belcher and many others. It's adapting to how people prefer to buy these days, and making it easy for them to do that. Rather than pressurizing them into being sold to.


          I see people bunker down already in this thread into their entrenched view points (not you, but), but in your case you've got an opener that doesn't even require all the overcoming excuses from what you said, if that is the first thing you say.

          Does that not suggest that if you change the way you do things, and create smarter ways, then you don't even get that kind of resistance in the first place.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      Bottom line - you're absolutely right, Matthew.Get them on the phone and start pitching them then or you may never get another chance.
      Joe: congrats on your "breakthrough". Sounds like it's working just fine.

      Matthew: it's great to see young people who "get it" early on. Keep up the good work.
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      • Joe,

        another way to frame the opening that you might like:

        right up front say "sounds like I caught you at a bad time".

        they don't know why your calling, and will say "no" (you then eliminate the "I have to go" without them looking inconsistent).

        then say " can you give me 2-3 minutes, then You Tell Me, if you want to continue the conversation, sound ok"

        hope it helps
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
          Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

          Joe,

          another way to frame the opening that you might like:

          right up front say "sounds like I caught you at a bad time".

          they don't know why your calling, and will say "no" (you then eliminate the "I have to go" without them looking inconsistent).

          then say " can you give me 2-3 minutes, then You Tell Me, if you want to continue the conversation, sound ok"

          hope it helps
          Thanks for the input. I really don't want to say something like "sounds like I caught you at a bad time" unless it's someone that I already do business with. They've already bought from me and have earned a bit more leeway. It's never really a good time when you're calling someone at work because they're working, right? If they're not working they're probably not a good candidate to buy, though I'll usually pitch them anyway. You just never know.
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  • Great read, I sometimes get discouraged myself when hearing those things.
    A reminder to keep moving forward!
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Just a heads up to people starting businesses and reading through methods of trying to generate new business. Since it pisses me off seeing how impregnable the orthodoxy here is in that you absolute have to become the most despised form of telemarketer that people loathe with a passion in the great majority of cases to get anywhere, and how this is the mindset most taught to people here. Anything to make the sale.

    Do not believe you have to become some cyborg who sits there all day long phoning people, pissing them off, and then pressurizing them until you find the few that will roll over and engage in a sales conversation.

    You can if that suits you. Just dial numbers all day with a single-minded determination to get a sale or two.

    But there are better ways to use the phone to fill your funnel and make sales in far less time, so you can get on with other things in your business. These are taught by people getting far better success then those using the call-centre methodology of phoning. The success of their methods is what causes the success in any field.

    How in Forex, 95% of the money is made by 5% who simply trade against the 95% who loss money or never make consistent profits. It's to counteract those who do it wrong.

    In this case, the typical call out of the blue from someone wanting to sell them something.

    Starting with an opener like Joe's is a good start. The proposition is they'll know how to save money, and then curiosity and fear of loss come into play.

    From there you can go into being douche and blow it so you're on the phone all day, or tell/teach them something very compelling about how they could easily save money doing one thing or making one change that you've already identified pre-call, and then giving them a very easy way/proposition to either say yes or no to and move on. Make it so only a fool wouldn't want to move on to the next stage.

    Do not go into ''Great. I aprreciate that. Well my company does this and this and this, and I was wondering if you guys have been issues in doing that, or if your website is bringing in the sales it should be, blah, blah, blah'', and then hounding them when they flake out because what you are saying is not relevant to them or as interesting as what they presumed it would be when they gave you the time of day.

    You can get through to far more people and get a yes/no far quicker, and if sales is a numbers game then that should be a good thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Just a heads up to people starting businesses and reading through methods of trying to generate new business. Since it pisses me off seeing how impregnable the orthodoxy here is in that you absolute have to become the most despised form of telemarketer that people loathe with a passion in the great majority of cases to get anywhere, and how this is the mindset most taught to people here. Anything to make the sale.

      Do not believe you have to become some cyborg who sits there all day long phoning people, pissing them off, and then pressurizing them until you find the few that will roll over and engage in a sales conversation.

      You can if that suits you. Just dial numbers all day with a single-minded determination to get a sale or two.

      But there are better ways to use the phone to fill your funnel and make sales in far less time, so you can get on with other things in your business. These are taught by people getting far better success then those using the call-centre methodology of phoning. The success of their methods is what causes the success in any field.

      How in Forex, 95% of the money is made by 5% who simply trade against the 95% who loss money or never make consistent profits. It's to counteract those who do it wrong.

      In this case, the typical call out of the blue from someone wanting to sell them something.

      Starting with an opener like Joe's is a good start. The proposition is they'll know how to save money, and then curiosity and fear of loss come into play.

      From there you can go into being douche and blow it so you're on the phone all day, or tell/teach them something very compelling about how they could easily save money doing one thing or making one change that you've already identified pre-call, and then giving them a very easy way/proposition to either say yes or no to and move on. Make it so only a fool wouldn't want to move on to the next stage.

      Do not go into ''Great. I aprreciate that. Well my company does this and this and this, and I was wondering if you guys have been issues in doing that, or if your website is bringing in the sales it should be, blah, blah, blah'', and then hounding them when they flake out because what you are saying is not relevant to them or as interesting as what they presumed it would be when they gave you the time of day.

      You can get through to far more people and get a yes/no far quicker, and if sales is a numbers game then that should be a good thing.

      Actually, I'm very nice to people - even when they're rude. My main mission is to get these people buying something, even if it's a smaller ticket item. I make most of my income from repeat business, so although I don't try to shove anything down anyone's throat, I will do my best to give a presentation. I know from years of experience that most people will tell you anything to get you to go away. You have no idea how many times I've heard "I don't need anything, but go ahead" and sold them anyway. It just happened yesterday and Friday, as a matter of fact.

      What I do is different from what seems to be the norm here. I don't sell online services, I sell physical products B2B. These companies already know what most of the products I sell are and I have clearly defined competitors.

      I'm not going to go through my entire process (not for free), but it works well enough to where I've never had a chargeback (knock on wood), I can count on one hand the number of returns I've had since I've been doing business on my own and I have customers that I've done business with off and on (while I was in the industry) since 1993.

      That being said, I'm not getting rich and don't profess to be. I'll never profess to be something I'm not. I have nothing to gain from it. I'm even considering gradually moving out of my current market because of different circumstances. Honestly, I'm getting burned out. I could do more in it by hiring people and leveraging my resources, but that's not what my long term goal has been. I'm working to jumpstart my affiliate marketing efforts, get that income coming in steadily again and move this to a part-time thing.

      Anyway, I'm off to other things. Thanks for your input.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Thank you for sharing your approach. And taking my criticism of the overall approach in this thread with good grace. I hire people to make calls for me. Getting the most out of my budget is a concern I have. For an opener I'll be using something similar to your one from now on when generating leads.

        When it comes to closing the sale. Hopefully I can find someone like Matthew with his skills to do that and close deals.

        Great advice in this thread, even if I disagreed that trying to be too insistent and close there and then is the best way to go.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by Underground View Post

          Great advice in this thread, even if I disagreed that trying to be too insistent and close there and then is the best way to go.
          The thing about sales is ... just about every sales person is on a different part
          of the learning curve. That in and of itself makes it very difficult to learn, teach and share.
          It also makes it darn near impossible for some people to see things differently.

          One thing I see often with reps is the one step forward, two steps backwards when
          it comes to perfecting the craft.

          Sometimes the smallest deviation from what they already know ... what they
          already use ... what they already know to work in there limited field of view

          ... will put them in a tail spin of non sales. So they are aggressive in the fact
          there way is the right way, there way is the only way.

          In my opinion, learning sales is done in steps - like climbing a mountain,
          sometimes you have to go down or side ways before you can go up.

          Sometime you have to get stuck for a while and find it in your heart
          to man up and keep going ... and like a mountain, if you try to do to
          much to soon ... without the proper real life experience ... you die.

          as far as being to insistent and closing all the time or inappropriately ...

          They are just on a different section of the mountain.

          The people that are closer to the top know that you don't have to close
          any more. You don't have to bang them over the head with rebuttals.
          You don't have to "find the perfect angle"

          The prospects do it all themselves.

          We are just Sherpa's clearing the path.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            The thing abut sales is ... just about every sales person is on a different part
            of the learning curve. That in and of itself makes it very difficult to learn, teach and share.
            It also makes it darn near impossible for some people to see things differently.

            One thing I see often with reps is the one step forward, two steps backwards when
            it comes to perfecting the craft.

            Sometimes the smallest deviation from what they already know ... what they
            already use ... what they already know to work in there limited field of view

            ... will put them in a tail spin of non sales. So they are aggressive in the fact
            there way is the right way, there way is the only way.

            In my opinion, learning sales is done in steps - like climbing a mountain,
            sometimes you have to go down or side ways before you can go up.

            Sometime you have to get stuck for a while and find it in your heart
            to man up and keep going ... and like a mountain, if you try to do to
            much to soon ... without the proper real life experience ... you die.

            as far as being to insistentand closing all the time or inappropriately ...

            They are just on different part of the mountain.

            The people that are closer to the top know that you don't have to close
            any more. You don't have to bang them over the head with rebuttles.
            You don't have to "find the perfect angle"

            The prospects do it all themselves.

            We are just Sherpa's clearing the path.
            I think that this is about as close to poetry, as we are ever likely to see in the offline forum.

            You really gave me pause, Ken
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
              Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

              I think that this is about as close to poetry, as we are ever likely to see in the offline forum.

              You really gave me pause, Ken

              Me too..(sniff, sniff).

              :-)

              Very well put.
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            The thing about sales is ... just about every sales person is on a different part
            of the learning curve. That in and of itself makes it very difficult to learn, teach and share.
            It also makes it darn near impossible for some people to see things differently.

            One thing I see often with reps is the one step forward, two steps backwards when
            it comes to perfecting the craft.

            Sometimes the smallest deviation from what they already know ... what they
            already use ... what they already know to work in there limited field of view

            ... will put them in a tail spin of non sales. So they are aggressive in the fact
            there way is the right way, there way is the only way.

            In my opinion, learning sales is done in steps - like climbing a mountain,
            sometimes you have to go down or side ways before you can go up.

            Sometime you have to get stuck for a while and find it in your heart
            to man up and keep going ... and like a mountain, if you try to do to
            much to soon ... without the proper real life experience ... you die.

            as far as being to insistent and closing all the time or inappropriately ...

            They are just on a different section of the mountain.

            The people that are closer to the top know that you don't have to close
            any more. You don't have to bang them over the head with rebuttals.
            You don't have to "find the perfect angle"

            The prospects do it all themselves.

            We are just Sherpa's clearing the path.

            Great post throughout. Particularly love the last line.
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