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medium sized business, within 6 weeks, they are making sales, need ideas for how to move forward

by ttrance
16 replies
hey all...

working for a medium sized HVAC installation/sales company serving all of our province. Their competition is either the top 5 companies everyone knows, or a bunch of little guys.

They have the ability to price match anyone. Also they offer good stuff and have a great homestars rating...

Soooo....

Started working for them about 6 weeks ago, they are getting about 5-10 phone calls a day from my work already, and about 1-2 sales a day on average.

Each sale is worth like 500-1000 profit depending on many factors...

So here is the thing...

They are a company built by salesmen. So they put pressure and expect results on everything.

This means I put like 0 time into anything long term and just built a killer adwords campaign with a few landing pages, callrail numbers, call extensions etc...

It works.... But the conversion rate is not really high. I am still not getting correct conversion numbers yet, but I'd say about 5-7 clicks turns into a phone call, and 1/4 phone calls becomes a solid lead...

So far they are happy that they see results so fast, but they keep pressuring me more and more to deliver more, higher ROI etc... AT LEAST at this point they are not thinking of stopping because they are seeing success.

I told them we are just doing Adwords and its good for instant conversions, but long term we want to get more general visibility in directories, SEO etc... He likes the idea....

BUT they expect me to pay for the SEO/local stuff from my paycheque!!

Here is where I expect some good advice from successful ppl over here...

my original offer was 5000 a month for the full range of services, and converting that system into a performance based model of 800-1000 per sale (not lead) once the campaign got underway. They haggled with me, so I cut back everything to just website and adwords for 3000 a month, 750 a week. The goal being lets get to per-sale which would be 800 or so per sale, if I can close 4 or more a month thats already more then 3000 and I have them happy hopefully long term...

So now I think at first they were skeptical but willing to try, but not really thinking something would come from it. Now however, since there is action, and they are spending money on adwords (Since they know it brings sales) They went from $100/day in adwords, to like $400/day in adwords! I told them thats crazy and give us time to optimize, but they dont really care they just want the calls and sales blah blah... You know the story. So now they are complaining to me within 6 weeks of starting from scratch "The ROI is not high enough! When we consider your paycheque and the adwords budget we are only making a few hundred per sale". So lets get back to what they first said..

They said lets do retainer/budget until we get rolling then we switch to performance model. Now I think since they see sales coming in and they calculate it themselves... a sale a day means instead of paying me 750 a week, they pay me like 800 a day (if 1 sale a day...) and thats a LOT more money than 750 a week...


SOOOO I think they are going to want to just keep it at 750 a week which I AM NOT HAPPY with, cause its a ton of work and I cant really even do everything I want within this budget because its so tight I can't outsource and still pay my rent/bills etc...

So I'm looking for some fresh tactics to try...

They also told me last week after I told them about this company that does a lot of good review/local stuff for them for $1000 a year that "We agree to do it, but we want the $1000 a year to come from your paycheque. You divide the $1000 up into all your paycheques.."

Their reasoning is that they are already paying me $3000 a month which should cover everything since its soo much money and after researching it they see an indian company will do everything (or they say so..) for $900 a month.

I think that is ridiculous.

They want me to pay from my paycheque for their company SEO/Local stuff?? Or else they wont do it, and will complain to me the ROI is not high enough??


So from my personal side... I have a family and need stability and this company is a medium sized company that until now has relied 100% on their sales coming from telemarketing appointment setting. They said they spend over $25k a month on telemarketing, but it brings them profit!!!!! They are a decade behind the times, and it was sheer luck (and Gd) that I was able to even close with them.... Now they are happy and like a typical salesman, want MORE AND MORE AND MORE..

I want more too...

But they keep saying "750 a month is huge, we expect faster and better results!"

Its annoying overall -- but I need stability and I do not want to risk losing this client, but I'm not too happy with the current arrangement because I feel as time goes by they will say to themselves "why pay him more, just string him along at 750 and let our company bank account grow"...

Also another problem is that they have 1 partner who is 30 and very smart. He is pretty intelligent, and catches things fast. Also he is a sales master (telemarketing and commission sales). Its how he has his 5 series BMW after all...But he knows nothing about internet marketing.

So he is learning a lot from me, and catching a lot of learning from Adwords. I do not think he will try to cut me out as he wants to join me selling marketing services to other companies, but I do not like it that within a month he thinks he has the knowledge its taken me years to build on...

He calls me at least once a week to comment on something he thinks we did wrong in the adwords campaign, only to have me tell him stop bugging me with your lack of understanding of adwrords thinking we are doing a bad job!

So he thinks setting up adwords is easy, and the whole trick is having a high converting landing page...

Its partially true but not true.

For a company of his size, I need to penetrate the local market in all areas, not just the high competition high cost of adwords...

However like mentioned before, he/they think I should fork out additional costs since I'm already getting 750...

However I am nervous if I try to bring up moving to the performance model now, maybe they will try to pull a salesman tactic on me...

So this is a pretty advanced scenario and I'm hoping for some razor sharp wit from at least a couple of you...
:-D
Thanks!

p.s. it feels great to really kill it for a company doesn't it?!?!?!

p.s. 2 I need some awesome PPC geared landing page template I can make 1000 variations for that will get good amounts of phone calls if anyone knows other ones to try... I am trying out unbounce right now, and can produce nice pages fast, but its too much money and not being hosted on my server...
#business #forward #ideas #making #medium #move #sales #sized #weeks
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Raise your price, or find a client to replace them before you fire them. Sounds like an awful client to me, but you like the money.

    Your options are:
    1.) Raise your price.
    2.) Continue working for the same amount and deal with it.
    3.) Start finding another company to replace them, and fire the client.

    If 5 clicks gets you a phone call, then your page is converting at 20%... you're not likely to get higher than that for quite some time. If they think 20% is a problem... then they have unrealistic expectations. Most websites even with extensive testing, struggle to get around 5%.
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    • Profile picture of the author ttrance
      yes I know your 100% correct about that conversion rate thing.
      Lets look at todays numbers for an easy example:

      27 clicks so far (5200 impressions)
      4 phone calls and 1 form

      The best day was last week. We had 117 clicks (but cost like $425) and a total of 16 calls a couple forms! ! ! ! !

      Now some of those calls are useless...

      Also this is not including active webchats with one of those livechat apps...

      In my opinion this is pretty damn good!

      In june (the month I started) a total of about 70 calls...

      July so far about 50...

      Not bad I think... However they are not being clear with me how many of them they sold.... I am scared to push... ahhh

      but clearly im kicking ass
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      First off, no offense to you brother, but neither I, nor the business owner care about your personal side and what your personal situation looks like. This is business right, treat it like one. It's not their responsibility to support you and your family. Provide enough value for them to pay you well that's how the business works.


      Second, your numbers are kind of screwy. Why do you think they will pay you their entire profit per sale. You say numerous times in your post you want to get paid $800 per sale. Yet the client only makes $800 per sale AND they are paying $400/day in adwords cost? Think through what you're asking. You have to know these things.


      You should aim to get paid somewhere between 15-20% of the incremental profit of the sale.

      If the Gross sale is $3,000
      Minus the Materials $1,600
      Minus Advertising Costs$400
      That means Net Profit is $1,000


      I don't count labor or insurance or rent or things like that, as they are covering that anyway. Sometimes we count labor in that number if they need another crew.


      Now you want to make between 15-20% of that. So that number is going to be between $150-200. NOT $800.


      If you're making $150 per sale and closing one per day you're probably at $800/week. Around where you're at now.


      I've had these types of clients, my gut is, it's not going to end well. If they have access to the adwords account, and it's in their name they will walk pretty soon. You've given up the farm my man. Maybe they won't leave, but my gut is they will be leaving soon. Only because I've had clients like these. Only when I had very solid contracts in place, and I was in control, and they only saw what I let them see was I able to maintain control of the relationship. Once you have it setup and optimized and they are running it under their own account what incentive do they have to keep you around.


      But my other gut reaction is you're thinking short term not big picture. Maybe this is a pain in the ass client but if you're getting them a sale a day, then you're probably bringing in $100k a month in gross revenue for them. You can take what you learn with them, turn it into a system and dominate that vertical. That's what I would do. Don't get greedy though, there's still plenty of money to be made. You're probably not far off the mark. Even with $25k a week in sales, they are probably only netting $5k a week off of those sales. Somewhere between $750-1k a week seems about right to me.

      Don't think how can I get this guy to pay me $5k a month. Think how can I get 20 more of these companies to each pay me $3k a month. That's how you make real money in this biz.

      Good luck, and good job.
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      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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      • Profile picture of the author ttrance
        hey thanks for the good advice. About the numbers I was not clear enough I guess. Originally THEY offered to pay me $800-$1000 per sale, but they do not pay $1 for anything else...

        In terms of the numbers, Their raw costs are like $1000 for unit, $700 for installation, the rest is more or less profit. Average unit sells for around $3000. So thats their whole system right there... They said they want to make $500 per sale, and had the rest of whatever profit remains to play with...

        I told them we want to move to that model but first we have to get their campaign off the ground which its not...

        So now they are coming and telling me the ROI they calculated is not very high at all because of all these random variables they included which are not real. Like they said over the last 6 weeks including all the money they paid for everything, they only got X sales, which after all calculations is done is not that much profit... But the truth is that for the first month or so there were barely any calls or activity as I was literally setting everything up extremely fast!

        I do lose sleep at night thinking about what you said above that they will try to screw me over. I should of demanded a signed contract right away but I just saw the potential and wanted to remove anything stopping it from moving forward.

        Now they know I am the real deal, I deliver and I kick ass, and I'm a good honest guy. But Im dead scared this young partner who learns fast will come one day soon and say, screw him I can do this myself!

        They have access to the adwords account, and I told him no admin access in case he screws something up but he complains nonstop and says "our credit card is on the account we need full access!"

        In retrospect with the confidence I have now, I would approach it differently, but I am not sure how to go back on what I gave them...

        At least the landing pages are held on my server which they cannot access...
        Also the various services we use on their site, I pay for and have full access to them. I could yank it all if they dont play nice, but they already know the company names I use, so they could go open up their own accounts..

        But still... no one at their company can do what I'm doing. It would be a gamble for them to try to screw me over and risk what they see as a huge potential success.

        Business is business though. I'm thinking to remove their access from everything I'm doing.

        I told them also that their website is NOT converting right now at all and it needs to be re-done. So they tell me, OK so re-do it! As if I'm suddenly creating them a free website because they are paying me $3000 a month ???

        This is not india my friend!
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        • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
          Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

          hey thanks for the good advice. About the numbers I was not clear enough I guess. Originally THEY offered to pay me $800-$1000 per sale, but they do not pay $1 for anything else...

          In terms of the numbers, Their raw costs are like $1000 for unit, $700 for installation, the rest is more or less profit. Average unit sells for around $3000. So thats their whole system right there... They said they want to make $500 per sale, and had the rest of whatever profit remains to play with...

          I told them we want to move to that model but first we have to get their campaign off the ground which its not...

          So now they are coming and telling me the ROI they calculated is not very high at all because of all these random variables they included which are not real. Like they said over the last 6 weeks including all the money they paid for everything, they only got X sales, which after all calculations is done is not that much profit... But the truth is that for the first month or so there were barely any calls or activity as I was literally setting everything up extremely fast!

          I do lose sleep at night thinking about what you said above that they will try to screw me over. I should of demanded a signed contract right away but I just saw the potential and wanted to remove anything stopping it from moving forward.

          Now they know I am the real deal, I deliver and I kick ass, and I'm a good honest guy. But Im dead scared this young partner who learns fast will come one day soon and say, screw him I can do this myself!

          They have access to the adwords account, and I told him no admin access in case he screws something up but he complains nonstop and says "our credit card is on the account we need full access!"

          In retrospect with the confidence I have now, I would approach it differently, but I am not sure how to go back on what I gave them...

          At least the landing pages are held on my server which they cannot access...
          Also the various services we use on their site, I pay for and have full access to them. I could yank it all if they dont play nice, but they already know the company names I use, so they could go open up their own accounts..

          But still... no one at their company can do what I'm doing. It would be a gamble for them to try to screw me over and risk what they see as a huge potential success.

          Business is business though. I'm thinking to remove their access from everything I'm doing.

          I told them also that their website is NOT converting right now at all and it needs to be re-done. So they tell me, OK so re-do it! As if I'm suddenly creating them a free website because they are paying me $3000 a month ???

          This is not india my friend!
          Have you ever heard of the hooker principle? Service is worth a lot more before you perform than after. Just saying. You kinda screwed the pooch on this one. I would give something back myself to get a contract in place.

          Here's another saying for you, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Sorry bud, I don't care what they said they are ok with. You can't ask for 50% of the profit and think they are going to be happy with that long term. Not even a normal client is going to accept that, and you have a hungry shark on the line. What I'm telling you is that somewhere between 10-20% is the magic number, if you try to take more they will end up resenting you. Even at 15-20% they are going to resent you a little. If they are making $1300 on each at 20% you're looking at $260 which is a far cry from $800 you've bargained for.

          I would bite the bullet, and negotiate down and take what's a win-win for every party involved. You're at risk of losing the deal already, and they're controlling you. And no offense bud but I think you're being greedy. I've been there, and I've made good deals with lead gen, but I know better than to expect to get paid 50% of the sale.

          I would be surprised it they lasted past 3 months, and honestly I'd be shocked if they stayed with this deal past six. It does you no good to negotiate deals that aren't a win for both parties as they are short term deals. Even if they argued for that deal in the first place. Because they don't always see the incremental costs of what everything costs. Looking at just your numbers from above if they are $1700 for parts and labor and $400 for PPC costs for a $3k deal. That means they have $900 in profit and you want to make $800 of that. Think through those numbers man. They don't really make sense.

          If they're making $900 profit on each, then take your 20% $180 on each. That's $900 a week. Better than what you're doing now, and you've created a win/win for them.

          In any case learn all that you can, because you can leverage this for the next client. Even if they are gone in a month or two.

          Good Luck.
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          We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

          Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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          • Profile picture of the author ttrance
            hey I completely am with you on the same page. I know that now once they see the numbers and its all real, they regret offering 800-1000 per sale.

            I plan to go for the win-win situation and go for the 20% of the profit, OR ask for like 10% of the REVENUE if they don't want to be paying anything and wanna go cheap...

            Bottom line is, if we serve in 10 medium-large cities, and my system can produce 1 sale a day per city, at $250 per sale for me, thats $2500 a day, and they are still making mega profits. A win-win for everyone!!
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            • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
              Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

              hey I completely am with you on the same page. I know that now once they see the numbers and its all real, they regret offering 800-1000 per sale.

              I plan to go for the win-win situation and go for the 20% of the profit, OR ask for like 10% of the REVENUE if they don't want to be paying anything and wanna go cheap...

              Bottom line is, if we serve in 10 medium-large cities, and my system can produce 1 sale a day per city, at $250 per sale for me, thats $2500 a day, and they are still making mega profits. A win-win for everyone!!
              You're assuming that they would be honest with you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phillip Blackwell
    Curious how this one turned out for you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Wow...I am curious too cause I just checked the date

    dealing with air conditioning (no heat here LOL)....companies and other sevice companies , home remodel, fumigation etc can be very hard to track.

    One problem is tire kickers who kick back 3 months later...."oh we are going to wait till after our daughter's wedding....till after the new baby is 6 months...till we come back from vacations"....and so forth and so forth.

    When you are dealing with consumers they may not just jump at first. You have t watch the calls like a freaking hawk....
    one frustrating thing is - people call in on a cell phone with a different name....people call from their office (not their own biz, the reception desk, their desk phone)...people call for their mother or mother in law....where I live people call in and ask (in english) for the spanish sales guy /tech to contact them...so that their mother, sister, etc can understand...now...they have different last names....try tracking that LOL (been there...done that)
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    • Profile picture of the author ivanela33
      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Wow...I am curious too cause I just checked the date

      dealing with air conditioning (no heat here LOL)....companies and other sevice companies , home remodel, fumigation etc can be very hard to track.

      One problem is tire kickers who kick back 3 months later...."oh we are going to wait till after our daughter's wedding....till after the new baby is 6 months...till we come back from vacations"....and so forth and so forth.

      When you are dealing with consumers they may not just jump at first. You have t watch the calls like a freaking hawk....
      one frustrating thing is - people call in on a cell phone with a different name....people call from their office (not their own biz, the reception desk, their desk phone)...people call for their mother or mother in law....where I live people call in and ask (in english) for the spanish sales guy /tech to contact them...so that their mother, sister, etc can understand...now...they have different last names....try tracking that LOL (been there...done that)

      I guess the inevitable happened and then moved on to the next shiny object:

      https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...usive-wso.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        [QUOTE=ivanela33;10121426]I guess the inevitable happened and then moved on to the next shiny object:

        LOL>> thanks for that...)
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  • Profile picture of the author Phillip Blackwell
    hahaha

    Well I live in the deep south so I understand the heat. And all those calls... I had a party rental website (space jumps, inflatable slides) ranking and sending a ridiculous amount of calls to the client. He couldn't handle them all - told him to hire a sales person but no... anyway... a small percentage were coming from the ... err... shady side of town. He said there were literally bullet shell casings on the ground and guys walking by trying to intimidate them. So sometimes you gotta figure out a way to "discourage" callers... if not prevent your site from showing up on their searches. Easy with Adwords & FB... local SEO takes more creativity.
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  • Profile picture of the author ttrance
    hey guys!
    I just noticed this thread brought back from the dead!

    Well what happened was they started to get tons of leads, but they didn't have any infrustructure for handling them and they tried to switch my pay to only per-sale, but with over 40 leads in the pipe they didn't close one so I put it on pause, then one of the partners tried to pick up the pieces on his own...

    Several months ago I reconnected with an old friend and surprise he and I combined and are now doing amazing IM stuff, got a bunch of clients, delivering good results its great. SOOOO much better to not have to work for cheap ass service companies... Its like the lowest rung of Internet Marketing I think...
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      Originally Posted by ttrance View Post

      hey guys!
      I just noticed this thread brought back from the dead!

      Well what happened was they started to get tons of leads, but they didn't have any infrustructure for handling them and they tried to switch my pay to only per-sale, but with over 40 leads in the pipe they didn't close one so I put it on pause, then one of the partners tried to pick up the pieces on his own...

      Several months ago I reconnected with an old friend and surprise he and I combined and are now doing amazing IM stuff, got a bunch of clients, delivering good results its great. SOOOO much better to not have to work for cheap ass service companies... Its like the lowest rung of Internet Marketing I think...
      Thanks for the update.I have said this before bout the idea of "generate leads" for local biz....not as easy as they make it seem...

      because you have to factor in the sales skills of their salespeople....the ability of their office staff to handle customer service....and even their ability to "do" the jobs you send them in the form of leads.

      The scenario you described seemed so full of issues, glad to see you came out of it ok
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      • Profile picture of the author Phillip Blackwell
        Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

        Thanks for the update.I have said this before bout the idea of "generate leads" for local biz....not as easy as they make it seem...

        because you have to factor in the sales skills of their salespeople....the ability of their office staff to handle customer service....and even their ability to "do" the jobs you send them in the form of leads.

        The scenario you described seemed so full of issues, glad to see you came out of it ok
        You're not wrong. Most small businesses can't handle the amount of leads and don't know how to close. But you can still rent sites to them. $400/mo might not seem like a lot but a site like this takes almost no maintenance. It's passive income. One of mine in particular that brings in this amount, the business only closes 6% of the business but they can still pay the bill. They don't need any other advertising. Abysmal conversions but still works.

        I've found selling leads generally harder than renting sites. But have done it. And have seen people that sell clicks successfully.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
    Sorry to say but they have you by the b-lls! They are controlling you and see your weakness and needs. They have to see that they need you more then you need them! Take control of yourself and your services if they don't respect you, their money is crap! You should just get rid of them.

    Tell them to hire the people in India that You-they- mentioned could do it for $900' If they are spending $25k a month on telemarketing they must be making a killing! Unless the closers suck!

    With your Google Adwords you are supplying the leads and the telemarketing guys/gals close! So you are supplying them with leads Just charge them for the leads. It looks like you are their employee and not a independent worker?

    And yes they are stringing you along. And as You Put it the partner who is 30 and very smart, intelligent,catches things fast, knows nothing about internet marketing has a 5 series BMW, is a sales master (telemarketing and commission sales).
    Who cares about this do your thing! But this guy will eventually think that he can do it on his own and say good bye to you! Sorry that's, life. Find better clients :-)
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