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Major Google Local Algo Update Just Hit - Check Your Clients!

by Catalyst eMarketing
60 replies
Oh man, Google is totally rocking the boat.

Big Local Algo update just started shaking things up about 2 hours ago.

CHECK YOUR CLIENTS!

Seeing lots of movement. Some really spammy listings that previously had a local penalty are now ranking on top. BUT also seeing listings move to the A spot that deserve to move up. So mixed bag so far.

But I'm just starting to research, so hopefully this will end up being a good update.

SearchEngineLand: Google Updates Local Search Algorithm With Stronger Ties To Web Search Signals

What are you seeing in the local packs you track?

Is it a good update for you or a bad one?
#algo #check #clients #google #hit #local #major #update
  • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
    Sorry forgot the link before, just added it above.

    Had to rush off and start working on before/after screenshot comparisons and
    started a mini analysis of results. Still working on screen shots and posts at my forum. Will try to get back here later tonight if I can with more info.
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    Linda Buquet :: Google+ Local Specialist and Google Top Contributor
    ADVANCED Google+ Local Training :: Also offering White Label Local SEO
    Latest Google Local News, Tips & Tricks

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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Awful update, from what I see the relevance has drastically gone down. Citation power has gone up, location doesn't have as much weight, and organic factors seem to have gone down.

    I'll wait until the dust settles and see what happens, but overall, I'm very unhappy with the amount of garbage that has risen to the top.
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    • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
      A few of the results I just posted at my place.

      I don't track just client listings because I don't personally work on clients any more.

      BUT I track entire packs with screenshots so I can analyze & reverse engineer the algo.

      City Realtor and City real estate agent or agency. NO MORE PACK!

      Beverly Hills cosmetic dentist dropped from being a 7 pack to a 3 pack.

      Chesapeake dentist used to always be a 7 pack. Now it's a 3 pack.

      Los Angeles personal injury attorney - major shake up.

      Seattle Chiropractor big shake up. A listing is totally spammy!

      Indianapolis plumber - pretty big shuffle.
      Signature

      Linda Buquet :: Google+ Local Specialist and Google Top Contributor
      ADVANCED Google+ Local Training :: Also offering White Label Local SEO
      Latest Google Local News, Tips & Tricks

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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Its so going to be a late night for me... I swear
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        Success is an ACT not an idea
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        • Profile picture of the author nathanjacobs
          No 7 pack at all for lots of bookkeeping keywords. Not seeing one for nashville bookkeeping for example.

          My client is in a smaller city and the 7 pack is gone there too, but the good thing is her video is #1 and her site is #2 no 7 pack mucking up the listing so a good thing for her I guess.

          Bad thing for other clients whose listings have disappeared. Not sure they will wanna pay when they can't be listed. Maybe this algo won't last? Maybe it will though. Probably will.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            It gives us another chance to let our clients know that we are on top of the new Algo.

            It gives us another reason for prospects to be upset with their current online marketing consultant. And another reason to need us.

            It's all perception. Every time there is a change, it's another reason to contact prospects and clients. Another reason to shake the bushes and make sales.

            Me? I'll wait a few more days to see what I can learn.

            But this is just another tap on the shoulders of business owners, to show them that they need us.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Awful update, from what I see the relevance has drastically gone down. Citation power has gone up, location doesn't have as much weight, and organic factors seem to have gone down.

      I'll wait until the dust settles and see what happens, but overall, I'm very unhappy with the amount of garbage that has risen to the top.
      Just as user of Google I have found it harder and harder to find what I want. Long tail results bring up the same crap as non-long tail. I literally can't find what I am looking for anymore. Been getting worse and worse this last year. About to switch to another search engine that is less worried about what blackhat people are doing and more worried about letting me find what I want and need.
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      Aaron Doud - Sales & Success
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      • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
        Objectively, as I don't do SEO any longer. I can still pretty much find what I want for 95% of searches. Most people aren't looking to verify that every listing works, just that they can find ONE thing that they want.

        So if I'm looking for Bob's plumbing because I want to know hours, etc. I can do a google search and find it almost 100% of the time.

        Now if I'm just looking for a plumbing service in Atlanta. If I do a search most of the things on the page are relevant. Sure is there some spam absolutely, but most web surfers expect a small amount of that. It's why they'll bounce off a page in less than five seconds if it doesn't deliver what they want.

        If you're thinking about leaving because you don't like the quality of the listings, I'd posit that's less about the quality you're receiving and more about how their changes affect your business. For 99% of users, Google is going to deliver the experience they are looking for locally. A normal user doesn't really care about spam, they just want results. They know they aren't getting the BEST when they do a google search for plumbers, they just want to make sure they get a plumber rather than a used car store.

        I'm like Claude, I like to look at these things as an opportunity. The next thirty days are your chance to shine. Get belly to belly with as many business owners as you can, give them an offer they can't refuse, make money. Rinse and repeat.
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        Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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  • Profile picture of the author sconlinemarketing
    For me this update was great. 2 customers I have been waiting for a while to rank are now in the Google 7.
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    • Profile picture of the author kemdev
      Biggest thing I've noticed is organic rankings that used to appear before the 7-pack are now dropped below. This has happened in a couple different cities I'm targeting. Whereas before there were 3 listings ahead of the 7-pack, now it's either 7-pack listings at the top or just one organic listing.

      Also, I have clients who never appeared in the 7-pack (but were #1 organically) all of a sudden in the number 1 slot in the local listings, as well as further down the page organically. This is with medium - low quality backlinks <100 and zero reviews. I have one client beating out a big name brand that has over 65 reviews and a domain age of 12+ years!

      Is this update good or bad? Depends on your point of view I guess. Clients sites' whom I haven't touched for months literally jumped to the A list spot overnight. I - we - aren't complaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    This update is a living nightmare.

    Basically 90+% of my most profitable 7 packs have disappeared.

    I had top 3 rankings in G local for terms like -

    mold remediation nj
    mold removal nj
    basement waaterproofing nj
    waterproofing nj
    mold testing nj
    mold inspections nj
    mold remediation new jersey
    mold removal new jersey
    foundation repair nj
    mold clean up nj
    mold company nj
    etc etc

    Looking at my SERPFOX yesterday and today I have a drop of >>>1400+ positions (I'm tracking about 150 keywords total).

    The ONLY THING I've seen in my niches is Google outright REMOVED the 7 pack and replaced it with organic listings.

    Since the 7 pack had been dominating 90% of my main keywords for the last 6 months THAT is what I was working on. I stopped building links and focused more on reviews and citations which got me ranking good and making great $$$.

    But now? My earnings are cut off by the neck. I am up shits creek without a paddle or any clue what to do now.

    I don't charge my clients monthly fees, I get paid solely for performance. So if I'm not performing.... I'm not getting paid.

    I guess this is why people say "you shouldn't depend on Google so much for your traffic" but WHAT THE HELL ELSE am I suppose to do? Seriously. Direct mail never worked very well for these industries. Adwords never converted very well for me. Neither has Facebook PPC.

    And I don't mean to offend Claude. But there is NO WAY to "stay on top" of updates like this. They just happen. They're like miniature hurricanes. They just come and wipe out everything... and I'm glad I'm not paying some overpriced consultant just so I can be told over the phone "we're staying on top of the everything so don't worry"... "just cause you perceive things are over doesn't mean they really are".... meanwhile my traffic has plummeted 80%, I'm not making sales, not making money and am on the verge of going out of business.

    How do you change the "perception" of someones business being compeltely wiped out Claude?

    How do you change the "perception" of Googles SERPS being like Russian roulette? Because that's exactly that it's like. Work for 6 months ranking your site organically then Google replaces 90% of your keywords with G local. Work for another 6 months ranking in G local than Google replaces that shit with organic listings again. It's ridiculous.

    How do you change the "perception" that everything you've done for the last 6 months has been a complete waste of time? I waste all this time getting reviews and citations, then BAM! BYE BYE G local.

    Then I have to listen to people saying "Every time there is a change, it's another reason to contact prospects and clients. Another reason to shake the bushes and make sales." Shake WHAT "bushes". Google is the ONLY ONE shaking bushes here.

    No offense, I just find that comment to be a bit out of touch with reality (at least the reality of a business owner, maybe not so much for consultants). And this is why I don't do consulting or hire consultants. Because most consultant's don't get paid for performance or results, they get paid for smoke screens and talking a good game.

    There are people going out of business right now and Claude is basically saying "this is a great time to take advantage of those poor desperate *******s". Maybe I'm twisting words but that's exactly what it sounds like to me.

    I am 1 of those poor desperate *******s (more desperate than poor but I don't know how long that's gonna last).

    So what would you like to sell me Claude? A newsletter? Some facebook marketing that doesn't convert for shit? An adwords campaign for $3,000 / month that generates 15 calls and 1 conversion?

    Forgive me for sounding so negative. But I only work with 4 clients. 1 of who is my brother.

    Last week my brother was doing so well he was shopping for a new home, this week, he's just sad, miserable and depressed out of his mind. We're both trying to stay positive but it's not very easy to do when BOTH your businesses just got wiped out. So this is a PERFECT OPPORTUNITY for you Claude. You have a desperate prospect right here in front of you.

    If you wanna pm me I'll gladly put you on conference call so me and my brother can listen to you pitch whatever you're selling.

    And if you can close my brother on anything, you can have him as a client. I can worry about myself but I'm more worried about him right now. Because all I can say to him right now is "I'm sorry bro, I know this is frustrating but you know these updates happen, and I can't really tell you what I'm gonna do for another couple of weeks".

    But maybe you have something more rosy to tell him?

    Cause if you can do better for him than I can than you deserve him as a client. Just don't expect it to be an easy sale cause he's been in sales for 20 years and is 1 of the sharpest salesmen I know.

    -Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
      Sorry to hear about this.

      I wish there something that could be done.

      Google has the power.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Daygin
      Results will always be mixed because it is a zero sum game. If someone wins that means someone else loses.

      Time to evaluate where your listings have been lost and perhaps work on general seo. Reviews, etc always have value. There are still a number of links on the Google 1st page. Just a question of getting one.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      There are people going out of business right now and Claude is basically saying "this is a great time to take advantage of those poor desperate *******s". Maybe I'm twisting words but that's exactly what it sounds like to me.

      I am 1 of those poor desperate *******s (more desperate than poor but I don't know how long that's gonna last).

      So what would you like to sell me Claude? A newsletter? Some facebook marketing that doesn't convert for shit? An adwords campaign for $3,000 / month that generates 15 calls and 1 conversion?

      Forgive me for sounding so negative. But I only work with 4 clients. 1 of who is my brother.

      Last week my brother was doing so well he was shopping for a new home, this week, he's just sad, miserable and depressed out of his mind. We're both trying to stay positive but it's not very easy to do when BOTH your businesses just got wiped out. So this is a PERFECT OPPORTUNITY for you Claude. You have a desperate prospect right here in front of you.

      If you wanna pm me I'll gladly put you on conference call so me and my brother can listen to you pitch whatever you're selling.

      And if you can close my brother on anything, you can have him as a client. I can worry about myself but I'm more worried about him right now. Because all I can say to him right now is "I'm sorry bro, I know this is frustrating but you know these updates happen, and I can't really tell you what I'm gonna do for another couple of weeks".

      But maybe you have something more rosy to tell him?

      Cause if you can do better for him than I can than you deserve him as a client. Just don't expect it to be an easy sale cause he's been in sales for 20 years and is 1 of the sharpest salesmen I know.

      -Rob
      My client's search results are all fine. They are still dominating the Google page one search results, and so am I. Maybe if you built your brother something that lasted, you wouldn't both be in this position.

      Lashing out at someone else, because you are failing, is the sign of a loser.

      Stop whining, grow some balls, and learn from your mistakes.

      And, I don't want to sell you or your brother anything. Ever. You could have simply asked me how to keep your search results dominating Google, and I would have helped you...for free. But not now.
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      • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
        In the heat of the moment, we all can get really upset.

        Red, "is in the Red"

        never easy to lose money.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

          In the heat of the moment, we all can get really upset.

          Red, "is in the Red"

          never easy to lose money.

          The last time Google had an algo update, I lost 68 websites for clients, and several for myself. Just gone.

          So I went to work. I built 68 new websites for clients...it took a month. I paid for it all.
          I let them know what happened, and fixed the problem. Thank goodness they still dominated the Google search results. I wasn't depending on a website. It was just part of what I delivered.

          Seeing Red is a reaction. Burning bridges is a choice.

          My post wasn't in the heat of the moment. I really thought about it.


          edited for clarity; It was 68 websites for 38 clients.
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          • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            The last time Google had an algo update, I lost 38 websites for clients, and several for myself. Just gone.

            So I went t work. I built 68 new websites for clients...it took a month. I paid for it all.
            I let them know what happened, and fixed the problem. Thank goodness they still dominated the Google search results. I wasn't depending on a website. It was just part of what I delivered.

            Seeing Red is a reaction. Burning bridges is a choice.

            My post wasn't in the heat of the moment. I really thought about it.
            I wasn't directing my post at you Claude.

            I was trying to cushion the blows.

            Bitter or Better?

            thanks for the subsequent post showing how you reacted Better, not bitter
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      • Profile picture of the author mojo1
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        My client's search results are all fine. They are still dominating the Google page one search results, and so am I. Maybe if you built your brother something that lasted, you wouldn't both be in this position.

        Lashing out at someone else, because you are failing, is the sign of a loser.

        Stop whining, grow some balls, and learn from your mistakes.

        And, I don't want to sell you or your brother anything. Ever. You could have simply asked me how to keep your search results dominating Google, and I would have helped you...for free. But not now.
        Gotta love Claude.... He's the calm before, during and after the storm.
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      • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        My client's search results are all fine. They are still dominating the Google page one search results, and so am I. Maybe if you built your brother something that lasted, you wouldn't both be in this position.
        You know what? I may have been heated when I left that comment. Maybe I whined. But I mean every last word I said. And at least I can substantiate any claims I make.

        You on the other hand? You say, "my clients search results are all fine". Yet I'd be willing to bet my entire savings account that you can't substantiate that 1 simple claim.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Lashing out at someone else, because you are failing, is the sign of a loser.

        Stop whining, grow some balls, and learn from your mistakes.
        No. It's the sign of someone who can smell bullshit from a mile away.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        And, I don't want to sell you or your brother anything. Ever. You could have simply asked me how to keep your search results dominating Google, and I would have helped you...for free. But not now.
        You don't want to "sell" him something? LMAO. I'm pretty sure you mean, "I don't have the skills to sell him something so I'm gonna pretend like I won't just so I'm not shitting where I eat"?

        Let me be frank with you for a minute Claude. I've read your book, I've seen your site, I've seen your seminars... and if I actually thought your information was worth more than a bunch of rehashed WF wso's.... I might actually care for your advice.

        You're the one who said, "this is a great time to sell people more yada yada".... then I call you out to sell me something, and predictably, you turn the offer down. Which I knew you'd do cause your target market is noobs. Last thing you wanna do is sell something to someone who actually pays attention to what you deliver.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        The last time Google had an algo update, I lost 68 websites for clients, and several for myself. Just gone.
        That, I believe.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        So I went to work. I built 68 new websites for clients...it took a month. I paid for it all.
        I think it would be more accurate to say "my clients paid me, then I lost 68 of their sites and used THEIR money to fund their new sites".

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I let them know what happened, and fixed the problem. Thank goodness they still dominated the Google search results. I wasn't depending on a website. It was just part of what I delivered.
        "Thank goodness"? Why not thank yourself Claude? I mean come on, aren't you the guy who know's how to "build things that last"? LOL.

        Furthermore, you say you "fixed the problem" then right after you say "thank goodness they still dominated the search results". That makes NO sense at all. If they were "still dominating search results" there would be nothing to "fix" in the first place.

        To make matters worse, are you actually trying to convince people that you rebuilt and reranked >>68<< websites in just "1 month"??? These must be REALLY generic websites. I understand you're suppose to be some epic guru Claude but if Matt Cutts himself tried to make a claim like that noone would buy it. Thus I definitely don't buy it coming from you.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Seeing Red is a reaction. Burning bridges is a choice.
        You're soo not full of yourself.

        A bridge has to EXIST in order for it to be burnt down. We never had that "bridge" Claude. I never once pm'd you about anything and never asked you for advice because as I've already made clear, I know the type of advice you give and I've seen it nearly every week for the last 3 years. It's the type of advice that makes me not want to hang around WF.

        I recently downloaded some interview you did with .... uh.... I can't even remember who that's how memorable it was. Anyway, it was about 40 minutes long and 39 minutes worth of fluff. The only useful thing I remember you telling people was to register with Angies List. Talking about Angies List like it's the 2nd best thing since sliced bread. Yet you couldn't even waste a whole 5 seconds to explain HOW people should utilize Angies list. Instead, like you normally do, you waste most of the interview trying to convince people how much of a guru you are.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        edited for clarity; It was 68 websites for 38 clients.
        Great, we all believe you now. Like I said, I'll bet my entire savings that you can't substantiate your 1 simple claim of "my clients results are all fine". It's very easy to make claims that are impossible to prove Claude. Good thing you have client confidentiality to protect you from someone thoroughly calling you out. Same thing for your comment about "rebuilding and reranking 68 websites in 1 month".

        If those 68 sites all happened to be 3 pages big, I might believe you rebuilt them. But there's no way in hell you reranked 68 sites in 1 month. Especially when you go on to tell us they were already ranking.

        I don't care how many solicited reviews your book has on Amazon.You should stick to what you know best Claude. Which is playing pretend "nothing-ever-goes-wrong-even-when-things-go-wrong-in-claudes-world" guru on WF.

        -Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi,

          Originally Posted by internetmarketer1 View Post

          Agreed. Google is getting way too confusing nowadays.
          'Nowadays'???!!!

          Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

          You know what?...
          I was wondering how you were getting on since your last post in this thread, which was interesting -

          I don't charge my clients monthly fees, I get paid solely for performance. So if I'm not performing.... I'm not getting paid.
          ... there is NO WAY to "stay on top" of updates like this. They just happen. They're like miniature hurricanes. They just come and wipe out everything...
          I think there are many other people facing this same dilemma.

          [Back to the popcorn]
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        • Profile picture of the author b520fp0
          Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post


          I don't care how many solicited reviews your book has on Amazon.You should stick to what you know best Claude. Which is playing pretend "nothing-ever-goes-wrong-even-when-things-go-wrong-in-claudes-world" guru on WF.

          -Rob
          Good for you Red. Don't let these consultant types (talkers, information and course sellers) BS everyone. Those that are running businesses that depend on Google organic and maps listings know SEO has changed dramatically especially for new listings and websites.

          I never really depended much on local listings so our lead volume has stayed fairly steady and may have actually increased a bit back to were they were before the May updates. I am thinking now may be a good time to explore them for websites that have dropped below new local packs (but some packs disappeared so it seems like a wash overall).

          I am exploring Serp Shaker and other similar tools to produce thousands of pages that rank very easily for long tails to supplement traffic while we wait for new sites to start ranking. Not seeing much volume yet, but it looks promising and I think a few PBN links may turn this strategy into a winner as I am building them on aged domains that already have some strong links.

          Home Improvement niche is very tough to get leads for sure. I find the niches where someone just needs something fixed right away a lot easier to get leads for. Just need to have more of these type of sites as the average sale is usually $200 - $400 as opposed to the sales in the thousands for home improvement.

          Anyway, I am sure you will figure it out. Your posts always provide me value. Keep up the brutal honesty.

          Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      So what would you like to sell me Claude? A newsletter? Some facebook marketing that doesn't convert for shit? An adwords campaign for $3,000 / month that generates 15 calls and 1 conversion?

      Red, you really know how to make friends on the forum lately. Do you even know who
      Claude Whitacre is, why don't you try Googling his name.

      Claude is an excellent speaker, invader and a brilliant marketer.


      Below is Claude speaking at a seminar, it's a long video but at least watch the first 20 minutes.



      Honestly he would have helped you at no charge and knowing Claude from my time here on the forum he has never not once tried to sell or pitch to any member of this forum.


      Edit: Don't just watch 20 minutes, watch the entire video and you'll honestly pick up some excellent marketing strategies.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post



        Below is Claude speaking at a seminar, it's a long video but at least watch the first 20 minutes.
        You're very kind. Please notice that this was made in 2011. The service is a little different now, as is the presentation....and my price is higher. But there is still some useful information in the video, I think.
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        • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          You're very kind. Please notice that this was made in 2011. The service is a little different now, as is the presentation....and my price is higher. But there is still some useful information in the video, I think.

          You are quite welcome Claude, I know the video is outdated but it was to illustrate that you are not one of those fly by night seo's.

          Until we meet again downstairs, hasta la vista baby.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    I'm sorry to hear about this, too. I used to rely on Google for much of my income both SEO and Adwords, but got wiped out more than once and went back to my offline business.

    I'm trying work back into online now, but I want to be completely independent from Google. I've seen this happen way too many times now.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      You can all you want say you are at the mercy of Google. That is just plain out not the truth. There are STANDARD practices that are not so effected by Google updates. I only saw gains straight across the board with this Google Local update. again STRAIGHT across the board. I have never been slammed by Panda or any other update either.

      If you follow slow and steady growth and do everything by HAND you simply can not loose. If you understand the basic principles of SEO and what Google, Yahoo, and Bing expect you can not loose.

      The moment you STRETCH any 1 parameter.. well, it will sooner or later bite you. The thing I have seen with Google in the past. If you mess around with 1 aspect of Google be it page SEO, or Local listing, or YouTube or G+, that 1 manipulation can come around and effect the others for any given property.

      If you spend less time trying to beat Google, and start playing along with Google. the rewards will come. If you realized what the value is of paying Yahoo the $295 or whatever it is to get a Yahoo listing.. you would play the game. If you understood that to get better listed on Bing, you need to use their webmaster tools But honestly... how many do?

      My general search engine traffic is broken down pretty evenly across the big 3. 40% Google, 30% each for Yahoo and Bing. of course this a give or take number but across the MANY websites that I have built ( that employ the 3 tier investment ), this is a number that hold true for the most part.

      I am sorry that many have lost out from a Google update Red I feel really bad for you that you basically have had your income just over night removed from you. but this is business. Name me ONE business that does not diversify. It is YOU that have made Google the ruler of your wallet.

      Google is but a piece in a well thought out SEO strategy. I will tell you on a percentage basis that traffic from Yahoo converts better. Bing tends to draw more mobile based traffic, it converts a bit lower BUT, that traffic tends to spend MORE. To be honest... Google traffic among the 3 is the least desired in my book. But I am in the business of bringing in the traffic that create conversions for my clients. As long as the traffic is targeted and converting I could care less where it comes from.

      We by FAR live in more than a one pony town. but to listen to this thread.. it would seem that is what everyone is relying on.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronr
      Rob sorry to hear about how this has effected you and your brother.

      Back in the old days, when it was G Places I did all the approved things, no spam and got friends and clients ranked highly and got them some great results.. I thought I had it nailed.

      Then a carpet cleaner friend was #1 in the 7 pack for years had his listing disappear overnight. There was no spam involved in his ranking. Long story short, some contractor hired by G delisted him by mistake. Took forever to get his listing up again haven't been able to get it higher than page 3 since. He's lost tens of thousands of dollars. Another dentist friend who was #1 and has over 25 great reviews and fully optimized listing has been pushed down to bottom to 7 pack by other listings that aren't claimed and have no reviews.

      Then came came G+ Local, Plus the all the algo changes in between. I tried to keep up but after some sleepless nights I decided it was too stressful to have my income depend on a giant I had no control over and that changed the rules when every it felt like it.

      I stopped offering local ranking services and stopped depending on G traffic for anything I did from then on. It was hard at first but life has been so much better investing time and money into things that I control.

      For those who are still keeping up with all the G places, local +, business, changes and are still getting results for your local clients, I hope you make a mint. You deserve it.

      Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Red,

    I think you're overreacting a bit... the update is early, it has been a couple days and there's nothing to really freak out about yet, there will be adjustments and further changes. I'm sure you're hit a bit harder by this since one of your clients is family but the truth is, it happens, you just have to go with the flow and adjust your strategy. It's the same in every industry, changes happen online and offline, and we have to adjust or we have to quit.

    Rankings are great, but when performing any sort of SEO, it is only a step towards the real goal. The real goal is traffic... quality, relevant, traffic to your website. Maybe you should revisit a few things to implement to kind of compliment your SEO... Adwords, Microsoft adcenter, retargeting, highly targeted facebook ads, SEO, local listing optimization (different from local SEO), work on bing local, along with other offline techniques.

    In the future, never get complacent with SEO... even when things are fine, it always makes sense to continue analyzing and adjusting. If 50% of your traffic or more comes from SEO that puts you at high risk. Try driving additional referring traffic, work on long tailed keywords with city specific landing pages in new jersey to drive organic results instead of the local, although with city specific landing pages, I wouldn't be surprised if you show locally as well.

    You're a smart dude... you know how this works... it's not a doomsday event, just another update that we have to adjust to. You'll figure it out.
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    • Profile picture of the author PBMax
      Okay, noob question here, but what is 7 pack? 4 pack? Etc?

      Google Maps search results? Google carousel numbers?
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      • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
        go do a google search -

        type in "google 7 pack", and look at screencapture images of it

        then search "google carousel" and an image will come up and you will see

        go to google search, click maps and do any search term
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  • Profile picture of the author JulieWhite
    So has anyone figured out how to get out of this update yet?
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  • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
    So far for me I have seen no changes at all with the exception of one client that I have not been able to get on to page one. That client is now on page one 2x for multiple search terms organically and in map spots.
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  • Profile picture of the author Defacto
    Good I see at least one of my spammy money sites back on top where it doesn't belong. Cool. Maybe time to put GSA back in operation.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

      Good I see at least one of my spammy money sites back on top where it doesn't belong. Cool. Maybe time to put GSA back in operation.
      Yeah that's a good idea use GSA to its freaking limits and get it pushed to the bottom of the list again. Your a Genius!
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      • Profile picture of the author Defacto
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Yeah that's a good idea use GSA to its freaking limits and get it pushed to the bottom of the list again. Your a Genius!
        It just went from the bottom of page one to the top. Always a money maker but without the cheap content and spammy links it would not have made me the commissions it has. But I am selling direct mail as my main offline service now. Google is just too fickle to offer any degree of consistency. I see "quality" sites on page 2 and 3 where they have been there for a long time. Maybe Google will someday get it right and those that are "deserving" will rise to the top.... One can dream.
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        • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
          have not seen Red on this thread lately.

          hope he is Better.

          kirby

          _____

          from claude's video from years ago, and since this thread is about google changes, I quote:

          "people are still buying, but in different places"

          _____
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

            have not seen Red on this thread lately.

            hope he is Better.

            kirby

            _____

            from claude's video from years ago, and since this thread is about google changes, I quote:

            "people are still buying, but in different places"

            _____
            So do I. I was hard on him, but I hope he's picking himself up, and getting back in the game.
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            • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              So do I. I was hard on him, but I hope he's picking himself up, and getting back in the game.
              He will. We all go through this.


              I want biz. to be fun, challenging (like Red's current challenge), and profitable
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          I think this is the point that has to be made. Those "Deserving" sites... way back on page 2 and 3. DESERVE to be there. Its not Googles fault the person people or company that is looking after the sites SEO cant figure out how to give it a boost. Because the reality is.. anyone that knows what they are looking at can look at say the top 5 listings and then go look at a listing from page 2 and 3 and tell exactly what should be changed to get that page to move.

          But sadly most SEO is outsourced, and that is only as good as what you tell them to do. ( Well actually its a good thing for guys like me ) SEO is not a set system. what works for one keyword may be overkill for another, and if you are top of the rank scale, that can actually hurt you. This is the nuance of SEO and this is exactly why people hate it, because they simply do not understand it. they want to peg it into some little box, and you cant. In all truth... this is why if it is done correctly, it can be darn expensive.

          So its not about Google bashing.. its about each and every site owner.. every failing SEO person people and companies just need to stand up and take responsibility and say "I don't know what I am doing" but it is easier to blame Google I guess.

          Ill just stick with Yahoo... Directory listings are so much easier and there is little to no competition! ha ha

          Originally Posted by Defacto View Post

          It just went from the bottom of page one to the top. Always a money maker but without the cheap content and spammy links it would not have made me the commissions it has. But I am selling direct mail as my main offline service now. Google is just too fickle to offer any degree of consistency. I see "quality" sites on page 2 and 3 where they have been there for a long time. Maybe Google will someday get it right and those that are "deserving" will rise to the top.... One can dream.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Great update, I have seen a significant rise on all my clients Insights and Clicks. I hope this is helping them. I am also seeing more 3-packs compared to 7-packs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
      Posted a bunch of new stuff at my forum today. Up to 88 posts, just related to this specific update.)

      Here are a couple of the observations I posted today.

      1) Even though SEland says Google told them this update has a lot to do with traditional organic signals, the ranking order does NOT match pure organic like it used to.

      (Used to except for violations and other problems on the G+ L side but you could always perfectly match up the correlation.)

      So there is other stuff in the mix which I'm trying to analyze, as I have time.

      2) LOTS more pure unclaimed G+ L listings with no site attached in certain packs. So those don't have organic SEO factors, but maybe citations or other 3rd party signals. But the ones I checked don't have much going for them. No reviews and G+ L page not even claimed.

      EXAMPLE: "Chesapeake accountant" (with location set to Chesapeake Va)
      Top 2 listings no site, just unclaimed G+ L page. Then further down another with no site.

      Right now I'm analyzing small town low competition markets that typically don't optimize much, in order to try to see how Google is ranking pure unadulterated rankings that have likely not been manipulated.

      3) SERP pack order no longer matches maps ranking order. Used to match up pretty well unless there was a penalty.

      From what I've seen the maps ranking order still mirrors the PRE 7/24 algo. But the SERPs pack order has now of course changed.

      HOWEVER after I wrote that I realized...

      WAIT!!! What I said above was using CLASSIC maps in FF. It's still the old algo. (I still use Classic for most research, better on several levels.)

      But I just searched NEW maps with Chrome and the map ranking pretty much jives with the current SERPs pack order.

      SOOOOO It's just like classic maps didn't get the update, but new maps did.

      Bunch of other stuff going on including more home based businesses getting suspended even if had address properly hidden. That started 7/24 too. Not sure it's related but some surmise the timing is suspicious. Long post about that at my place too.

      Anyone else have service area or home bases businesses suspended, disabled or deleted the past few days???
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      • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
        Just updated my Seattle Chiro rank tracking screenshots in post #5 for anyone that's been following that post to see all the ranking flux.

        This algo is still shifting and shaking! Every day ranking changes like she's purposely just shaking it up. So either not settled yet or she's still testing and tweaking.

        As I said at Mike Blumenthal's last night...

        "No matter what angle I look at it from, this algo does not appear to add up or make sense.

        I think this algo has one primary goal.

        Bamboozzle SEOs!"
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Catalyst eMarketing View Post

          Just updated my Seattle Chiro rank tracking screenshots in post #5 for anyone that's been following that post to see all the ranking flux.

          This algo is still shifting and shaking! Every day ranking changes like she's purposely just shaking it up. So either not settled yet or she's still testing and tweaking.

          As I said at Mike Blumenthal's last night...

          "No matter what angle I look at it from, this algo does not appear to add up or make sense.

          I think this algo has one primary goal.

          Bamboozzle SEOs!"
          From my analysis so far, this definitely seems to be changing a bit and that's why I wanted to wait until yesterday before taking an in depth look.

          From an analysis of about 500 different keywords + location, I've noticed a few things.

          1.) The power of citations seem to have increased
          2.) Organic factors seem to be less important
          3.) Proximity, and sometimes even being in the same city are less important than they were. I've seen in about 50% of the smaller markets (usually 50k or less in population) listings from outside cities now ranking.
          4.) Age of the listing itself, with no other factors seems to have been given waaay too much weight. (Even with no link to the website)
          5.) It is now worse to have conflicting citations, even a few, than it would be if you had significantly less overall citations. It didn't used to be this way.

          I believe there is some penalty associated with a bit of the ranking flux. At first I thought it could be penguin, since penguin seemed to not affect the local results. I thought maybe they did something to allow a lot of spam to rise to the top in order to penalize. I think it's still possible but it's more likely there is some other penalty filter in place.

          About every 1 in 5 listings that has risen in rank seems to have questionable backlinks, though about 3 in 5 seems to have a higher quantity of backlinks. This makes it difficult to really tell what's going on here. A lot of quality sites have certainly risen, but so has some sites that shouldn't be.

          From my sample size I saw roughly a 25% decrease in 7 pack display.

          Quite a lot of variance when it comes to geo location, not just from keyword + location but even when setting your locations.

          Overall I don't think this is an update that gives users the relevance Google always talks about. I have a feeling what I've noticed so far, is going to probably change up by the end of the week.
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        • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
          Originally Posted by Catalyst eMarketing View Post

          Just updated my Seattle Chiro rank tracking screenshots in post #5 for anyone that's been following that post to see all the ranking flux.

          This algo is still shifting and shaking! Every day ranking changes like she's purposely just shaking it up. So either not settled yet or she's still testing and tweaking.

          As I said at Mike Blumenthal's last night...

          "No matter what angle I look at it from, this algo does not appear to add up or make sense.

          I think this algo has one primary goal.

          Bamboozzle SEOs!"
          Google will always be turning things upside down. It will never change and it doesn't really have much to do with SEO guys. It is meant to let EVERY business owner know WHO has to get paid first if they want to build predictable and sustainable business using Google.

          Google is a marketing/advertising platform with search capabilities attached to it. It started as a search engine, but that was never their goal. History proves it.

          If you don't pay to the big G for inclusion in their "paid" programs, expect to get beat up on regular basis. The sooner you understand this, the better off you will be. They know that no legitimate business owner who wants to build "sustainable" business would allow outside forces to rattle their business every other month. Eventually, they will start paying for their traffic...
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          • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
            I don't believe it's all about getting revenue and getting everyone to pay up for Adwords. I think it's more about staying ahead of the competition, (Bing, Facebook et all) and delivering the best results for users.

            I just did a new post, outing some extremely bad results and offering some solution to those of you that were affected by this update.

            Google Pigeon Collateral Damage & What You Can Do About it
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          • Profile picture of the author digichik
            Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

            It is meant to let EVERY business owner know WHO has to get paid first if they want to build predictable and sustainable business using Google.

            Google is a marketing/advertising platform with search capabilities attached to it. It started as a search engine, but that was never their goal. History proves it.

            If you don't pay to the big G for inclusion in their "paid" programs, expect to get beat up on regular basis.
            Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

            I get much worse results from Google than I used to. I've been doing a research on two different niches and no matter what kind of "long tail keywords" I choose, the results usually come from the same "major" sites and other results are irrelevant or redundant. It's been like this for several months now and it only gets worse... I sometimes dig 10 pages deep and see no improvement. It's frustrating. Need a new search engine fast :-)

            They give way too much authority to some big players, making the topic search boring and biased.
            Sir Thomas your observations are Right On! They really do think they are too big to fail, and as smart as they think they are, they fail to realize, that if we don't find what we are looking for, we'll move on to the place that provides the answers. History bears this out too.

            Then, how much will their ads be worth?
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Content may be King, but DATA will rule the world.

              Google is that ruler, and we just want to be a king. each and every Google product is one of 2 things. a dispenser of the data, or a collector of data. In some cases it is both.

              When you are talking Google you are talking BIG HUGE data. I don't think I could imagine the overall amount. How many sites run Google Analytics? we look at 1 site at a time.. They are looking at MILLIONS. Social Trends... with search terms, and G+, YouTube, and Chrome If something happens ANYWHERE in this world... Google is one of the first to know.

              When you have the amount of data that Google has... you can start looking at where we have been. where we are, and probably pretty accurately start determining on where we are going.

              I don't think they will ever make everyone happy.. but I am guessing the aim at keeping a certain target happy... I think that maybe because we work to get those results, and don't get them we are NOT that target.
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              • Profile picture of the author DABK
                I moved up in the organic ranks, because there's no more 7-pack.
                Then I moved down some... Well, not really. I'm at the same organic position, but now there are 5 ads at the top of the page. Yes, I'm in a competitive arena... I thought 3 ads at the top were too many.

                Silly me!
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                • Profile picture of the author Kilterman
                  Originally Posted by DABK View Post

                  I moved up in the organic ranks, because there's no more 7-pack.
                  Then I moved down some... Well, not really. I'm at the same organic position, but now there are 5 ads at the top of the page. Yes, I'm in a competitive arena... I thought 3 ads at the top were too many.

                  Silly me!
                  Great observation.

                  I overlooked this and when i read your post I went and checked the positions that I had increased organically and yup, no more seven pack.

                  BUT.

                  Some seem to switch between 7 pack and straight organic, google testing users desires on specific keywords?
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                  • Profile picture of the author DABK
                    Don't know what they're doing, but smaller cities still get the 7-pack (or 3 or 5-pack) big cities and keyword don't.

                    Also, some keyword+city that didn't trigger the packs, now do.

                    Originally Posted by Kilterman View Post

                    Great observation.

                    I overlooked this and when i read your post I went and checked the positions that I had increased organically and yup, no more seven pack.

                    BUT.

                    Some seem to switch between 7 pack and straight organic, google testing users desires on specific keywords?
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    I get much worse results from Google than I used to. I've been doing a research on two different niches and no matter what kind of "long tail keywords" I choose, the results usually come from the same "major" sites and other results are irrelevant or redundant. It's been like this for several months now and it only gets worse... I sometimes dig 10 pages deep and see no improvement. It's frustrating. Need a new search engine fast :-)

    Let me clarify a little. If ESPN is an authority site for sports, Google will be bringing the results from this site in ANY sport field out there, regardless of how "suitable" a given page is for my search. They give way too much authority to some big players, making the topic search boring and biased.
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  • Profile picture of the author misshang
    May I know what is 7 pack?
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    • Profile picture of the author kirbymarketingconcierge
      when you do a google search, there are 7 listings (or was) near the top, below the ads(usually) at the top.

      try this search " taipei hair salons"
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      • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
        Originally Posted by Kilterman View Post

        I overlooked this and when i read your post I went and checked the positions that I had increased organically and yup, no more seven pack.

        BUT.

        Some seem to switch between 7 pack and straight organic, google testing users desires on specific keywords?
        The algo is still in major flux. I've been posting and sharing screenshots almost daily tracking "Seattle Chiropractor" and sometimes even twice a day the whole pack changes. So not sure if it's testing or TRAINING this new algo maybe???

        Originally Posted by misshang View Post

        May I know what is 7 pack?
        We call it a 7 pack but it can be a 3 pack or 1 pack sometimes too. In fact many 7 packs have been reduced to 3 packs, which are much harder to rank in.

        But anyway these are local results with an A, B, C map marker and reviews.

        Search for City + Dentist and you'll see them. They look different than the regular search results.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    This algo change almost reminds me of how things were pre-panda. Anyone else feel the same?
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