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Pigeon Algo: Advice from Leading Local Experts and a Checklist

by Catalyst eMarketing
16 replies
Wanted to share this over here for any Warriors that are struggling due to Pigeon issues.

Miriam from Moz reached out and asked me and other leading Local Search experts to weigh in with our best Pigeon observations and advice.

Mike Blumenthal, Mary Bowling, Phil Rozek, Andrew Shotland, Nyagoslav Zhekov and I all contributed insights and advice and then Miriam wrapped up with a handy checklist of actionable advice you can try while you wait for this algo to settle down. Hopefully it settles into something more fair and equitable!

Pigeon Advice from Top Local SEOs and a Pigeon-Proofing Checklist - Moz

What do you think? Anything to add?
#advice #algo #checklist #experts #leading #local #pigeon
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I think it's a bunch of crap. A cop out.

    "Focus on less competitive terms" is a way of saying, even though I'm an expert, I don't know how to rank for important keywords anymore. I know that wasn't you, Linda, and your comments are probably the most legit, but if you're in the SEO game it's your job to figure it out, not just give up and go for the easy crap.

    I will never be satisfied with low competition low volume keywords. Those have always been a given for me, when focusing on higher competition keywords.

    I also believe that the whole clean, consistent citations is a load of crap. Know how many listings I've seen with very few citations, and others with a mess of 3 different phone numbers, 5 different addresses, ranking in the A-B spot for some of the most competitive industries in the country? (Although it is sound advice, this is nothing new that people didn't already know years ago)

    I have a guy with very few citations that has been ranking for 65+ keywords in 20 cities (2 states) that is about a 100 mile radius. I bet he's actually ranking for more cities than that, but those are just the ones we're tracking. Tightening down on radius is a nice guess but inaccurate in my opinion.

    My advice... is all about relevance. Search engine optimization is not just about Google and major search engines but also about directories, social media, etc. because there are internal search engines on many directories and third party sites as well. The descriptions you use in citations, should touch on multiple keywords that complement your main terms. Your city specific landing pages should have outbound links to local city specific websites... great way to do that and increase relevance is to list directions, attractions, landmarks, parks, etc. The person that said funnel your PR to your location pages... PageRank has very little to do with local results, it is more of an organic issue but from what I've seen there has been a decrease in organic factors in this update. Create slideshow videos for city specific pages, and have the meta data for the videos touch on those keywords and enhance the relevance of the page.

    I believe on page optimization is by far the most important aspect of this update. On page SEO isn't just your website anymore... it is your google listing, website, directory listings, and social media profiles. Variance in the url of each page with keywords, along with the title tags, heading tags, alts, etc. will be better than trying to repeat the same main keyword. You want synonyms, related services, topics, etc. if you want to rank well.

    I don't see the point in trying to give advice on what pigeon is doing... nobody knows. It's not finished doing whatever it's doing... I believe it is only part 1 of changing up the local algorithm, and part 2 will be coming soon. I wouldn't be surprised if Pigeon is just the precursor to a penalty.
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    • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
      Banned
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      I think it's a bunch of crap. A cop out.

      "Focus on less competitive terms" is a way of saying, even though I'm an expert, I don't know how to rank for important keywords anymore. I know that wasn't you, Linda, and your comments are probably the most legit, but if you're in the SEO game it's your job to figure it out, not just give up and go for the easy crap.

      I will never be satisfied with low competition low volume keywords. Those have always been a given for me, when focusing on higher competition keywords.

      I also believe that the whole clean, consistent citations is a load of crap. Know how many listings I've seen with very few citations, and others with a mess of 3 different phone numbers, 5 different addresses, ranking in the A-B spot for some of the most competitive industries in the country? (Although it is sound advice, this is nothing new that people didn't already know years ago)

      I have a guy with very few citations that has been ranking for 65+ keywords in 20 cities (2 states) that is about a 100 mile radius. I bet he's actually ranking for more cities than that, but those are just the ones we're tracking. Tightening down on radius is a nice guess but inaccurate in my opinion.

      My advice... is all about relevance. Search engine optimization is not just about Google and major search engines but also about directories, social media, etc. because there are internal search engines on many directories and third party sites as well. The descriptions you use in citations, should touch on multiple keywords that complement your main terms. Your city specific landing pages should have outbound links to local city specific websites... great way to do that and increase relevance is to list directions, attractions, landmarks, parks, etc. The person that said funnel your PR to your location pages... PageRank has very little to do with local results, it is more of an organic issue but from what I've seen there has been a decrease in organic factors in this update. Create slideshow videos for city specific pages, and have the meta data for the videos touch on those keywords and enhance the relevance of the page.

      I believe on page optimization is by far the most important aspect of this update. On page SEO isn't just your website anymore... it is your google listing, website, directory listings, and social media profiles. Variance in the url of each page with keywords, along with the title tags, heading tags, alts, etc. will be better than trying to repeat the same main keyword. You want synonyms, related services, topics, etc. if you want to rank well.

      I don't see the point in trying to give advice on what pigeon is doing... nobody knows. It's not finished doing whatever it's doing... I believe it is only part 1 of changing up the local algorithm, and part 2 will be coming soon. I wouldn't be surprised if Pigeon is just the precursor to a penalty.
      Thanks for your comment iamnameless,
      Solid advice especially about relevancy. Been having some issues with keyword density and had a hunch I needed to replace key terms with synonyms; I think this is very crucial to onsite optimization today.

      It's much easier to over optimize today than under optimize it seems. I've seen pages rank without the exact keyword usage at all which used to be atypical several years back now becoming the norm. I think Google is getting use to spotting suspicious optimization techniques.

      On site optimization wise, I find ensuring your description and title contains the exact key term is still beneficial for click through rate purposes although in regards to the actual content, it's best to avoid too many exact usage. Importantly ensure fragments of your key term are used evenly throughout your content eh?
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by humbledmarket View Post

        Thanks for your comment iamnameless,
        Solid advice especially about relevancy. Been having some issues with keyword density and had a hunch I needed to replace key terms with synonyms; I think this is very crucial to onsite optimization today.

        It's much easier to over optimize today than under optimize it seems. I've seen pages rank without the exact keyword usage at all which used to be atypical several years back now becoming the norm. I think Google is getting use to spotting suspicious optimization techniques.

        On site optimization wise, I find ensuring your description and title contains the exact key term is still beneficial for click through rate purposes although in regards to the actual content, it's best to avoid too many exact usage. Importantly ensure fragments of your key term are used evenly throughout your content eh?
        Keyword density is always the hardest thing to determine. Sure you can count it out, but what exactly are you counting? I personally use 1.8% or 9 uses per 500 words. BUT, I don't count just in the text. That 1.8% is determined looking at the html side. So the title is one count. the 4 times in the text is each 1 count. The img file is 1 count, the alt is 1 count etc ( Yes I know I left it short... ha ha )

        This is basically the formula that works for me, and has for years. Its just nice steady and consistent.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearce
    PR has a lot to do with local now. Back in the day everyone thought just build citations for my places and i will rank. Not even the case anymore. Try experiementing. ... Put your client on Google Maps and attach is YP.com or Yelp.com profile to the places and see what happens. I bet you find that his ranking and visibility improves. Now Google says not to put websites like this on Google Places listings, but just to prove a point. Domain Authority now plays a big impact on Google Places listing. Test it you will see.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      That would be called a citation. I actually try to stay away from the "big" citation sites and get the same results, so no.. its not the citations PR that is effecting the listing.

      Originally Posted by pearce View Post

      PR has a lot to do with local now. Back in the day everyone thought just build citations for my places and i will rank. Not even the case anymore. Try experiementing. ... Put your client on Google Maps and attach is YP.com or Yelp.com profile to the places and see what happens. I bet you find that his ranking and visibility improves. Now Google says not to put websites like this on Google Places listings, but just to prove a point. Domain Authority now plays a big impact on Google Places listing. Test it you will see.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by pearce View Post

      PR has a lot to do with local now. Back in the day everyone thought just build citations for my places and i will rank. Not even the case anymore. Try experiementing. ... Put your client on Google Maps and attach is YP.com or Yelp.com profile to the places and see what happens. I bet you find that his ranking and visibility improves. Now Google says not to put websites like this on Google Places listings, but just to prove a point. Domain Authority now plays a big impact on Google Places listing. Test it you will see.
      Age of the listing has more priority over PR AND age of the website. PR has very little to do with local SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author pearce
    I agree with age but if you can get some PR to the site that will help give it a big boost. I have already been testing this theory.
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    • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
      Originally Posted by pearce View Post

      I agree with age but if you can get some PR to the site that will help give it a big boost. I have already been testing this theory.
      I think you need to do more testing. Because I've outranked quite a few pr 3-4 sites with prNA sites. And to me, PR is a pretty useless metric.

      ---------

      As far as the original post. The only thing I can say I'm happy about is that people are pro-actively talking about this topic.

      Especially Linda. And not just cause she's a member on here but because she's a woman and we need more women marketers to tell us "guys, we don't really have the answers to everything".

      This update, although it hurt me bad, it turned out to be a huge blessing.

      It forced me to learn Autoit and Firefox macros. I built my first bot ever, and I'm learning some very cool new ways to drive traffic to my sites without relying so much on Google. It's almost like having your own VA working for you all day for free. My bot crawls around the web, logs in to 20 CL accounts, posts ads, moves on to backpage, facebook, twitter, nj.com, etc etc.

      Google can keep their stupid pigeon. I have about 5xs more reviews and citations than any of my competitors, use to rank #1 in G local before this update. But if Google wants to remove the 7 pack & 3 pack for all my keywords, then f##k them. I have no reason to work on reviews anymore. And I'm definitely not waiting around for them to bring back the 7 pack.

      At some point Google is gonna have to learn that trying to control spam is like trying to win the war on drugs.

      It doesn't matter what they do, they will never stop spammers. And what's really sad, 2-3 years ago the SERPS in my niches use to look beautiful. It was all relevant, small, local businesses ranking. Most the people who were ranking deserved to be there.

      These days Google is showing tons of pages from authority sites like nj.gov. Pages that have very little to do with what people are actually searching for. Almost like their sacrificing relevance for authority. I have no idea what they think they're accomplishing or what they're trying to accomplish cause the SERPS keep getting worse and worse year after year.

      -RS
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      • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
        Shoot, I didn't get notified and don't have time to get over here very often. Glad to see the lively discussion!

        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        I have a guy with very few citations that has been ranking for 65+ keywords in 20 cities...

        I believe on page optimization is by far the most important aspect of this update.
        Ya I stopped doing citations 3 years ago and always ranked clients without citations or BLs. Mainly on-site SEO and of course doing all the G+ L stuff right. I don't even teach anything about citations in my training. It's all about G+ L related issues and on-site SEO. But moreso now barnacle SEO is important at least with the current versions of Pigeon it seems.

        Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

        As far as the original post. The only thing I can say I'm happy about is that people are pro-actively talking about this topic.

        Especially Linda. And not just cause she's a member on here but because she's a woman and we need more women marketers to tell us "guys, we don't really have the answers to everything".

        This update, although it hurt me bad, it turned out to be a huge blessing.
        Thanks RS, but I hope it's not just because I'm a woman. Hope it's because I'm usually right. Us women always are. Hahahahah

        Glad Pigeon turned out to be a blessing for you.

        It seems to be settling down some and once it does we can begin to figure out what makes this old bird tick.
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        Linda Buquet :: Google+ Local Specialist and Google Top Contributor
        ADVANCED Google+ Local Training :: Also offering White Label Local SEO
        Latest Google Local News, Tips & Tricks

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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          [QUOTE=Catalyst eMarketing;9509203]But more so now barnacle SEO is important at least with the current versions of Pigeon it seems.[QUOTE]

          I seriously had to look that up.. I was what the F is "barnacle SEO"? I have called this "Parasite SEO" for Y E A R S.

          Posting on this very forum "could" be an example of "Barnacle SEO" I think you Linda use it very effectively for that. Bob Ross I believe uses this principle wisely. I personally have stayed away from that aspect, but use it to the fullest in other locations.

          I have for years contributed to Wikipedia and have never had the honor of a link back but have without question benefited none the less.

          So here is the point... It would appear from the outside looking in that the best methods of SEO change daily, but in reality that is far from the truth. People are so focused on the latest and greatest "White Hat" exploit, and they follow just that. And because it is a current "Exploit" they get really good results from it... for a time. Then Bad Mean Google steps up and releases an update that slaps you.

          You are then thinking "What The Hell?!?!? I was only doing what Google wanted!" and there really is nothing further from the truth.

          SEO is math. In the best case across the hundreds of elements that Google looks for, we might obtain 15 or 20 of them. Everyone thought Keyword stuffing was the answer... no. everyone thought linking was the answer... no. Everyone was looking at citations and Reviews to be the answer... no. There will come a point that video will take a hit ( I think it already has in some cases ). But over and over the cycle continues.

          So back to the math. You can so greatly excel in any one element that you rank like a champ. However, you have not beat the system, you have set yourself up to be a mathematical "Exception" #1 is really NOT a good place to be. I will tell you that is not a position I shoot for. 3 or 4 is fine for me. In todays world a 3 or 4 listing with solid description text is better than a #1 spot ever was.

          Learning to be "Average" across as many variables as possible is the key to success. Learning that excess will only get you removed, is a lesson that needs to be learned.

          A solid SEO strategy looks at all of the variables as a whole, and not just the one that is going to get result tomorrow. Barnacle SEO is the next latest and greatest... it to will have a flock that fails. ( It would almost be amusing if the next Google update that penalizes "Barnacle SEO" is called "Starfish" )

          I will tell you from my own personal success, old school methods still work to this day. I still write single keyword focus text. Synonyms are not a method to increase your pages SEO ability, just a way to keep your target keyword count in check.

          The absolute only SEO bandwagon I could see getting on without issue is the SSL bandwagon. The writing has been on the wall for that one for a while now, and it appears that will almost be a requirement in the SEO world of tomorrow.
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          • Profile picture of the author Catalyst eMarketing
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            I seriously had to look that up.. I was what the F is "barnacle SEO"? I have called this "Parasite SEO" for Y E A R S.

            Posting on this very forum "could" be an example of "Barnacle SEO" I think you Linda use it very effectively for that. Bob Ross I believe uses this principle wisely. I personally have stayed away from that aspect, but use it to the fullest in other locations.

            A solid SEO strategy looks at all of the variables as a whole, and not just the one that is going to get result tomorrow. Barnacle SEO is the next latest and greatest... it to will have a flock that fails. ( It would almost be amusing if the next Google update that penalizes "Barnacle SEO" is called "Starfish" )
            In the purest sense Barnacle SEO is just maxing out your profiles at Local directory sites. Nothing wrong with that and I would not call it parasite SEO.

            Here is a post from Search Engine Land about it.

            Why "Barnacle SEO" Is Making A Big Comeback In Local

            And since Pigeon is loving directories these days AND driving more traffic to them from the SERPs, makes perfect sense to try to be more visible there.

            But I do agree with a lot of your other points.
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            ADVANCED Google+ Local Training :: Also offering White Label Local SEO
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              That would be a narrow view of what I am reading "Barnacle SEO" to be. More specifically that would be a result specific definition of Barnacle SEO. You are specifically looking at things within the guise of "Local Search" you are specialized... and really that is awesome, but there is a bigger more broad view of concepts and their uses.

              Parasite - Barnacle.. really whats the difference?

              BARNACLE SEO: attaching oneself to a large fixed object and waiting for the customers to float by in the current.

              PARASITE: an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

              Originally Posted by Catalyst eMarketing View Post

              In the purest sense Barnacle SEO is just maxing out your profiles at Local directory sites. Nothing wrong with that and I would not call it parasite SEO.

              Here is a post from Search Engine Land about it.

              Why "Barnacle SEO" Is Making A Big Comeback In Local

              And since Pigeon is loving directories these days AND driving more traffic to them from the SERPs, makes perfect sense to try to be more visible there.

              But I do agree with a lot of your other points.
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  • Profile picture of the author StarkContrast
    This is the first I've heard of looking at the html. Seriously. It's just not taught. I just checked out the source code of a site of mine and noticed three rss feed lines like this:

    <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title=

    all with the keyword in it after the equal sign. Plus there were some Category sidebar links that all had the keyword in them.

    Let me go out on a limb here, those are also "counts" too? Wow. Learning more every day.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by StarkContrast View Post

      This is the first I've heard of looking at the html. Seriously. It's just not taught. I just checked out the source code of a site of mine and noticed three rss feed lines like this:

      <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title=

      all with the keyword in it after the equal sign. Plus there were some Category sidebar links that all had the keyword in them.

      Let me go out on a limb here, those are also "counts" too? Wow. Learning more every day.
      Using "MY" method... yes those count. I will guess that those pages for you are listing in the search engines page 4 or worse? If you go in and look at the top 5 spots and look for exact match counts, then pull the text into word or something ( to get a word count ) and do the math, you will see 1.8 1.9 and a rare 2.0%

      BUT it goes way further than that. SEO gains are to be had on the back side or the html side. This is where the advantage can be swung into your favor, and quick. Understand what needs to be where and how it is distribute through the page. ( noticed I said "distributed", sounds an awful bit close to "Density" now doesn't it? )
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Great reply Savidge but the SSL thing has already been shown to hardly if at all effect rankings.

    I don't think it will ever have any major impact on ranking placement. The reason why is that it doesn't make any sense to give a site with SSL more ranking preference over one that doesn't.

    Then when the one that doesn't finely gets an SSL it then goes back to all the other factors Google considers.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Rus,

      Very true... it is not showing much if any results TODAY... but when you are looking at SEO it is not about TODAY, it is looking at the stability in your listing over the long haul. In the realm of SEO variables SSL is going to be one of those that you either have it, or you do not. When the day comes that having one is the mathematical "average" guess what.... it no longer will be an advantage / disadvantage it will be a requirement.

      I don't know if you have ever taken an existing site and then placed an all coverage SSL in place... but it really is a pain the .... So on any new site it just makes sense to get it in place in the development stage, stay ahead of the curve, and get on board to the future of internet requirements. Because this is exactly where the internett is headed. A secure environment.


      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Great reply Savidge but the SSL thing has already been shown to hardly if at all effect rankings.

      I don't think it will ever have any major impact on ranking placement. The reason why is that it doesn't make any sense to give a site with SSL more ranking preference over one that doesn't.

      Then when the one that doesn't finely gets an SSL it then goes back to all the other factors Google considers.
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