im going for 2k a sale - destructive criticism is better none at all so do your worst

39 replies
Back-story

I've been telling myself and everyone else that I'm going to make it in the offline world, but it’s been who knows how long.
So I decided that I needed to get some accountability to make this happen.

You see I have a couple of clients.
But nothing to write home to momma about. 2 are for seo and one is for web redesign.
just to let you know that seo is basically not for me anymore because one of those clients that I have for seo, I told them that it would be 4 months to get to page 1 (that's what the worker told me to say) anyway, its been 7+ months and he stopped paying but he’s really well connected so im paying for continued work till he gets to page 1 (I know im an idiot).


Anyway, it’s been pretty depressing not getting any clients, so I've taken to the phones and I even bought a scraper from here but so far it’s been 1000s of emails and not one bite. I don’t want to say who as im sure my poor experience is based on my poor use of the wso.



Anyway, I've decided to look into lead generation as the few biz owners I spoke with want more biz now not in months or years..


My goal is 5k a month (actually its more like 50k a month, I know it’s possible) and here’s my plan:




100 phone calls a day (50 of video and 50 for lead generation)


im targeting painters and roofers (this actually might be a bad idea as they are telling me they have reputable services like home advisors and angles list that do the lead gen for them already)

But I keep on moving forward!
I use that outrageous claim of getting 20 phone calls (which I still need to figure out how to do) and this time the roofer was really interested.

The call went a little like this:

Me:
hi, I not sure who I should be speaking with, I usually talk with the marketing department. (Genius by Jason Kanigan- buy all of this stuff)

the owner(that's what he told me)
yea, im the owner, what do you want?

me:
can you give me like 10 seconds, and i'll tell you why I called.

the owner:
... fine

me:

if I could get your phone ringing with at least 20 prospective buyer this month guaranteed (why did I guarantee it? im such an idiot) would that be something you’re interested in?

the owner:
what?

me:
I repeated myself

the owner:
how you going to do that, what do you mean?

me:
basically (this is what I told him, but I have no idea if it can be done) we make a facebook ppc campaign for you and we send the traffic to an irresistible offer, we can figure that out later. the visitors see the offer and call you.
all you need to do is close the deals and cash the checks (I actually didn't say this last cash the checks part but I probably should have)

owner:
what are you some business consultant? are you going to charge me per hour...?

me:
I do consult businesses, but I don't charge per hour

owner:
we do Bergen County, and Manhattan, I dont do brooklyn so send me an email with everything you do and a price

(there was some small talk but that was basically the end of the convo)

here’s the email I sent:
My objective is to grow your business for the long term.

What we discussed was simply to bring some cash-flow into your business while increasing your database to use for a different time.


We will need to create an irresistible offer.


Either we give something away of value like some information (like you might have on your site). here are some examples:


-some video or written guide on how to do something people normally charge for (but of course really requires a trained professional such as yourself)



- you can provide a service that normally you would charge $200 down to $100 (again this is just an example) for a limited time



-etc...



we position that offer on a separate page, not connected to website.

There will be a phone number on that page to contact you or leave a message


You will then close those who call you or upsell them after getting more information about their situation (or you might upsell them when you get to project site)


This is only the beginning. If you are willing and interested we can really take your service to the next level.


(I spaced this in the email for emphasis, not sure it worked- he hasn't gotten back to me)



I normally charge $2500 for the first month (includes ad copy as well as setup for this campaign) not including the cost for the ad.


However, I'm willing to drastically reduce the price to get you started. That's why I'm only charging $1250 for the first month.


Like I mentioned on the phone, you will be making money with this and if I'm half right, you're only regret is that you didn't start this earlier. ( I got this last part from wolf of wall st and Cameron and marios wso)


Contact me at 555555555 with any questions


Looking forward to working with you,


Jonathan Chapman

now we play the waiting game....

im not sure what to do at this point. and im afraid I charged too much, so if he doesn't call back or if he wants me to charge less im probably going to give me because im a wussie.

Any suggestions?
#criticim #discructive #kill #sale #worst
  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    i know i misspelled destructive
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    In my opinion he wanted off the phone... you don't know if the price is out of his zone or not, he's still a prospect, not even a real lead.

    The problem I see... is that you aren't delivering for your existing clients. The SEO thing.... you're paying out of pocket on with no proof that it's going to work. You should have found out a few different options, but in local SEO, MOST people see results within 1 month. Of course, it depends on the competition and city, but in most situations 4 months is too long. 4 months is longer than the average SEO customer stays with an SEO company.

    A scraper does its' job... if you have the emails, the phone numbers, etc. then it is your job to connect with them.

    The biggest problem I think you have.. is you don't know what to offer. You don't know how to make the phone ring... you can't do it for yourself so how can you do it for someone else? My advice... instead of putting up your own money for someone who has essentially cancelled... put that money up for yourself and learn first hand what works and what doesn't.

    In order to hire effectively... you also have to learn about what you're hiring for. The biggest mistakes I've made in hiring, is not knowing how to manage effectively, and not knowing what to look for. Learn about what you're hiring for and you'll have better employees/outsourcers and probably better overall results.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrmatt
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      MOST people see results within 1 month. Of course, it depends on the competition and city, but in most situations 4 months is too long. 4 months is longer than the average SEO customer stays with an SEO company.
      Is that for an existing site or a brand new site?

      If you are doing that with a brand new site I am impressed.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by mrmatt View Post

        Is that for an existing site or a brand new site?

        If you are doing that with a brand new site I am impressed.
        Very little variance. It depends more on the location and competition of course, but I've done it on brand new sites, listings, domains, etc. in pretty competitive markets. I have a strategy that a lot of people don't use.

        For national keywords, it definitely does take longer in some circumstances. I've had a few keywords that took about a year to get ranking anywhere important.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    thx, for the post.
    the 2 seo clients are both national companies
    one is a vitamin shop and the other is an autoshipping dealer.

    re: the offer, you are probably right, but I assume you can get pretty targeted leads with facebook ppc
    I've done it a while ago for another venture (it was with google ppc) for some MLM.

    but i dont see why creating a well crafted ad with some call to action or gift of value in exchange for an email or even a deal of some sort wouldn't get at least 5 people to give the guy a call just to get more info
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  • Profile picture of the author npk
    First, I would advise that you never email. Tracking is a pain, and there's too much time in between before getting feedback. Be bold and pick up the phone.
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    Freelance appointment setter/copywriter.
    I can help with getting you leads and/or sales scripts.
    I also broker lists, both business and consumer.
    PM for details.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by npk View Post

      First, I would advise that you never email. Tracking is a pain, and there's too much time in between before getting feedback. Be bold and pick up the phone.
      He said he called him?
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    thanks for responding
    yes, you are right.
    I first called him cold and after he told me to email him, did i do so
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    that's hilarious, because i keep telling people i do it all.
    I mean it kind of works.
    for example, a Dr. i know asked me if i make 3d videos for product demonstration.
    I told him of course i do.
    I got the job and sent it off to elance and have been in contact with that Dr the entire time. He knows I got someone to do the work but its under my management.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    iAmNameLess, you are right.I dont have confidence in the Lead gen as i myself aren't convinced of it.

    Does anyone know of any good material on the subject, because it seems (there i go again assuming) like business owners just want more calls and they want them yesterday
    thx
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    Treat and sell what you do as advertising. Most businesses understand advertising and virtually none of them understand websites, Google, or basic Internet marketing. Trying to convince them to try a "Facebook PPC" campaign or "Search Engine Optimization" is always going to be an uphill battle due to their lack of knowledge. Who's going to buy something if they don't even know what it is?

    Good advertising = brand awareness, phone calls, emails, leads. Online advertising has the giant advantage of being long-lasting, therefore making it less expensive in the long run. The game really changes when you go from selling any type of this 'online' stuff to selling the vehicle that is advertising. You're not lumped into the category of every other cold-caller or website peddler, giving you more productive conversations with a higher percentage of the people you contact. There are always going to be those businesses that don't advertise at all, but these can be skipped quickly.

    Now the question remains... what are you gonna do?

    Sounds to me like you don't know how to drive traffic. Since that's the case, you don't have any business selling this service. Hate to burst your bubble but you can't outsource what you don't know. And throwing money at services hoping to get good results will generally land you right where you already are.

    My advice? Build a site for a client you think would benefit from this service - a medium sized business that you know already advertises in the paper/has a okay website/advertises anywhere. Use a free (or better yet, paid) Wordpress theme and city-specific domain name. Use a tracking phone number from CallFire.com. Put up content advertising the "client's" business. Create a few blog posts. Maybe make a video for it. Practice good on-page SEO and geo-target the location.

    Total cost: free - ~$100

    Drive traffic to the website. A couple quick ideas: city-specific landing pages for the local area, local directories, local linking opportunities, Google PPC. Honestly in the local game with areas of <50k population you can get by with a couple really good local links and a broad stroke of other links (scraper type stuff) so long as you don't overdo it. Figure this stuff out if you don't know how to do it.

    The bottom line... you will be able to see if you can generate results or not for a minimal price. If you can, sell the website instead of the leads. If you can't... figure out what you did wrong and keep trying. Right now you have ZERO faith in your abilities or your product. The only way to change that is to prove it to yourself, first. Proving it to others get a whole lot easier after that.

    Note: I should mention that this gets a whole lot easier when you already have the client and can build proper citations and utilize Google My Business and authorship. Organic rankings are getting harder since the last update as I've noticed more and more terms showing the 7-pack first. It is still very possible to rank organically - just takes a bit more work without the other half covered.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    you guys are all righteous individuals!
    just a quick update
    I’ve been calling roofers like crazy, an idea I got from another warrior
    so basically I’ve been getting allot of clicks which really does a number for my ego
    but I recently heard grant cardone (I think that’s his last name) say you need to have the attitude that "it’s your responsibility, duty and obligation to help these prospects" so that has been getting through the rejection so far.

    additionally, when I called a prospect and I gave him the "I can increase your business, phone calls, etc... "he said "like some sort of lead generation or something" I said yes basically.
    he then said “so how are you going to do that?"
    I said there a number of different ways, (I should have first asked questions about his business, but he didn’t really let me) I also mentioned ppc.
    That’s when he went you're going to manage a ppc campaign for me and he hung up.

    not sure the lesson there, maybe I should come off a little commanding that im controlling the convo so I an ask the questions before he or she ask how I plan on accomplishing the lead generation
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    dougeb2 thanks for the info
    im charged up for it
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      You need to just stop already... my goodness.... why not try something different. MAKE THE FUNNEL FIRST. The when you are calling prospects. you say Hi is the owner in.. whatever I have a couple leads I would like to give you in your industry do you have a pen or pencil handy? Give them the information, and then give them YOUR number. btw if you would like more of these we could discuss a price.

      Or something to that effect.

      You are trying to sell to guys that probably get sold to DAILY ( and throwing them the objections to get out / off the phone ). STOP SELLING and provide results.. let the RESULTS sell for you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        You need to just stop already... my goodness.... why not try something different. MAKE THE FUNNEL FIRST. The when you are calling prospects. you say Hi is the owner in.. whatever I have a couple leads I would like to give you in your industry do you have a pen or pencil handy? Give them the information, and then give them YOUR number. btw if you would like more of these we could discuss a price.

        Or something to that effect.

        You are trying to sell to guys that probably get sold to DAILY ( and throwing them the objections to get out / off the phone ). STOP SELLING and provide results.. let the RESULTS sell for you.

        My thoughts reading the post just before scrolling on to yours was ''Stop. For **** sake, just STOP.'' I know just how pointless it is floundering around on the phone desperately trying to sell something we want to sell, but no-one wants.

        This is a classic example of a thread I just made. The number one mistake. Not understanding the target market you'll be going into.

        We guess, assume at what will make money, what business owners want. We put the goal of making a nice round £10,000 a month as the first consideration.

        Then go an make right ass of ourselves pestering businesses owners with our hair-brained schemes.

        Follow this one exercise, J, please.

        Go here: https://adwords.google.com/ko/KeywordPlanner/Home

        Click on search for new keyword and ad group ideas.

        In the section: Enter one or more of the following: Your landing page

        Enter either, preferably both, of these urls, one at a time:

        Video Production Company London | Corporate Video Production Agency | NextShoot UK

        Video | Kumma


        These two B2B marketing companies have done their market research and narrowed down on their segments, and have put them into nice segmented keyword groups.

        There are up to 40 keywords in each of the groups, and up to 20 groups, around 800 different search queries or terms. Each of those keywords represent a certain objective or problem businesses owners are currently actively seeking resolutions for.

        i,e., we don't need to guess what problems businesses owners have. We can use tools available to us to find real market segments that we can then craft the perfect target sales and marketing approach.

        We know their problems and we can then prospect to find those who fit that category rather than plucking ''roofers and plumbers'' out of thin air, and some guess pulled out of our asses about what problems they might have (I don't know why, but there can't be many on the WF who haven't done exactly the same thing). We'll know before hand, and can then work on our approach to them.

        I'm currently looking to launch a certain service. I've identified separate 5 segments, Youtube/video advertising, people looking for more customers, people looking for specific forms of video production, people searching for the best form of online advertising and people seeking targeted online campaigns.

        I got those segments by going through the planner and looking at the keyword groups from the two companies in the links above. Within those segments could be many variants of search terms that represent separate problems.

        My solution fits all of them, each of those segments are wrestling with different problems and coming at things from different angles. I'll adjust my marketing content and landing pages to address each of those segments separately and then can lead them to my main solutions. I can do that because I've researched the market, understand their real concerns and issues and can weave that into my sales and marketing accordingly for higher conversions.

        I kind of vaguely guessed before hand which main areas but had only guesses at youtube/video advertising and marketing, or video productions and wouldn't have thought of the others without research.

        Point is, take some time out. Fully research the market, find where your strengths and interests are and where you can help the most. You'll then know how to easily filter for your idea prospects and where to find them, and how best to approach them (try to educate them first rather than sell them there and then on the phone) in a way that sets you up for success.

        There's no need to guess. There are thousands of segments with real prospects there who would buy what you offer if you provide genuine quality. You need a real process to find them and not following some nonsense you found in a WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    savidge4, you make alot of sense.
    a few questions about it
    maybe i have this wrong, but this kind of funnel requires either ppc or SEO, both can take time or money or both (im not saying i want everything on a silver platter (ceramic is just fine btw).
    but how many can i possibly get to begin making a business around it?
    or are you saying get some leads for them so show them that its possible and once they see what you did was making them money you create that funnel, did i get it right?
    forgot the other questions
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Build the funnel... throw PPC at it, get a few leads turn off PPC give leads away... sell client to pay for the leads turn PPC back on

      I think we might have to bust out the plastic forks for that one



      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      savidge4, you make alot of sense.
      a few questions about it
      maybe i have this wrong, but this kind of funnel requires either ppc or SEO, both can take time or money or both (im not saying i want everything on a silver platter (ceramic is just fine btw).
      but how many can i possibly get to begin making a business around it?
      or are you saying get some leads for them so show them that its possible and once they see what you did was making them money you create that funnel, did i get it right?
      forgot the other questions
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    not really sure what the "plastic forks" reference is (like a cheap thing)
    anyway, i got the idea. thanks
    my issue and maybe this is my greed talking, but how much can you possibly sell a lead for, now matter how qualified it is?
    i could "listen my biz owner, i have these guys how already want to buy. Here you go enjoy 1, 2 , etc..."
    let me know how that works out for you.
    (sounds like im selling crack "the first is always free...)

    call back some time later and say " so... was it like shooting fish in a barrel (not sure why im using such ridiculous analogies)?"
    great to hear, so now since each customer was about average $200-$1000 (like those really come around very often that i'm gonna give them away so easily) what do you say to (50% of the sale) $100-$500 etc...?

    i guess the idea is that once they see you can produce results they will be coming back to you for more?
    i dont know why im still seeing it as a one-off service?
    i cant see this growing to a stable income.
    i'll have to think it over.
    thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Maybe you should try your hand at affiliate marketing or something first. seriously.

      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      not really sure what the "plastic forks" reference is (like a cheap thing)
      anyway, i got the idea. thanks
      my issue and maybe this is my greed talking, but how much can you possibly sell a lead for, now matter how qualified it is?
      i could "listen my biz owner, i have these guys how already want to buy. Here you go enjoy 1, 2 , etc..."
      let me know how that works out for you.
      (sounds like im selling crack "the first is always free...)

      call back some time later and say " so... was it like shooting fish in a barrel (not sure why im using such ridiculous analogies)?"
      great to hear, so now since each customer was about average $200-$1000 (like those really come around very often that i'm gonna give them away so easily) what do you say to (50% of the sale) $100-$500 etc...?

      i guess the idea is that once they see you can produce results they will be coming back to you for more?
      i dont know why im still seeing it as a one-off service?
      i cant see this growing to a stable income.
      i'll have to think it over.
      thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    You want 50% of what they could make if the lead turns into a sale? Unreasonable.

    The only way you're going to make good money selling leads is with volume.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Not only is it unreasonable it demonstrates a total lack of understanding no matter what space they business is in, or what gross profit margins they have.

      Originally Posted by kemdev View Post

      You want 50% of what they could make if the lead turns into a sale? Unreasonable.

      The only way you're going to make good money selling leads is with volume.
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  • Profile picture of the author klbunnell
    I have had good success gaining local clients by offering to build them the website free (or some other service), and then provide monthly hosting. I am a hostgator resller. Then I upsell services. I use optimizepress theme to build a very quick, easy and sharp looking website, then when I make a call or send an email I entice them with a free site. If they already have a site, I set up a landing page and put a sales video on it, and I offer that for free to them. That opens doors like crazy!

    In my experience, email marketing is the fastest way to demonstrate value for a client. I ask, "Do you have a customer list?" secondly I ask, "Do you have services you could promote to these past customers?" If the answer is yes, I tell them that we can automate a process that will nurture the customer and upsell services and product to them. It's pure money off the top.

    I avoid PPC, and I instead offer:

    Mobile ready website (Optimize press is Mobile ready)
    Video marketing
    eMail Marketing

    Again, the key is to identify a free service you can offer and get in the door that way. If you want more specifics I can share. I use a WP backup process to "clone" a site so that I can create a sharp site for a customer in about 60 minutes. I now have two Filipino workers that do all the work for me...lead harvesting, follow up, etc. Now I offer a free webinar and I show exactly how to set up a profitable email auto responder campaign. Most of the time they just say, when you can do it? :-)

    Kenny

    PS: I like your drive...if you keep this up, you will be successful. The key is to build a system and then work the system.
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    I create websites and I teach others how to create websites for fun and profit. Reach out if you would like to learn how I generated over $5000 in sales my first month as a complete newbie.

    http://kennybunnell.com

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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    I hear what both kemdev and klbunnell are saying.

    (i just want to say, all you guys are great)

    one of the issues are I cant know how well the biz owner or his staff is at closing, therefore, they might want less even if they are aware of how qualified they are.
    volume would be out of my price range (to get the leads initially).

    but is it sooo crazy to want to create their funnel for them with ppc or whatever and get a monthly fixed price for the service?

    the problem is after i make the funnel, what else do they need me for?
    I thought about this and felt that maybe they would need me to manage the ppc or adjust the landing pages as needed, but i still dont see a reason for them to keep me with the price more than 1 month.

    also that brought up the content of the landing page, either for me to get the leads initially or if and when i create the funnel for them.
    should this page have a deal on it, like buy one and get one free (whatever) or a valued info gift in exchange for email,etc...?
    the reason is because i myself am as cheap as they come, and therefore, unless theres a good deal i'd probably not bite. and even if we do make like a "top ten things you need to know before you etc..." ebook or info video, etc... i dont believe thats considered a lead unless they call me for more informaiton. an email entry isnt enough for me to be called a hot lead.

    I'm rambling, but im stuck on what the landing page should consist of.
    for instant phone calls, i assume limited time deals are the only way to go (like im an expert in the matter).
    this would be beneficial for me, becuse i biz owners might want to constantly change their deals and need someone (ahem) to manage it.

    re: the free site giveaway, i never tried it but have always wanted to do it.
    what a great group!

    I'm gonna look for something free to consider as a foot in the door.
    thx
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Here is the thing.. you know there is money to be made.. you can sell based on the fact you have taken money from clients and provided no service to them at all ( Whats even worse is your SEO guy is stealing from you - well actually I find this funny - but he is getting paid by you, and the owner of the business if he has half a brain has already removed the password to get into his account )

      You are asking all of these questions and doubting whats being said and saying but after a month they wont need me? WHAT?!?!?

      Seriously... you want to build funnels for clients and get them business then start with BASIC. Develop YOUR OWN funnel for some affiliate product. Understand how it all works. learn how to get traffic, how to really get PPC traffic.

      Just for once put in the time and learn how to do something. You are cronic. do something right for your self and the people you are selling to. You are out trying to sell something that you have read about, you'll take the first payment and you will FAIL just like with SEO and probably 10 other things before that.

      Get some morals or something
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    I hear where you're coming from.
    I didnt think I was morally unethical as im getting the work done by the pros, but I do get the idea that its not proven so im not confident but giving the illusion of confidence
    I have to run (babysitting) but i'll update when I can
    thx again
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      I didnt think I was morally unethical as im getting the work done by the pros
      I think you need to examine that sentence right there because it should be very eye opening...at least it is for us. From what information you have given us, you only have 3 clients, and only 2 pay. You don't know if the people you use are pros or not, otherwise you would be using them to get clients for yourself.

      The only reason anyone could think they are pros, is because you continue to pay them even when you're not getting paid. That makes no sense. 7 months and no results but you continue to pay. The bridge is burned...time to build a new one.

      In my opinion you have no business selling lead generation. You don't know what you're doing, you don't know how to get leads on your own, let alone get leads for other companies.

      I think you need to simplify... in fact.. I think you will never see 5K/mo until you do. Pick something... web design....SEO...PPC... whatever you choose, stick with it until you master it yourself. You can use a lead generation angle with all that.

      Web Design - I'll build you a search optimized website that is responsive, meaning it will adjust to the user's screen whether it is an old school 800x600 monitor, widescreen, smart phone, or tablet... not having a responsive website means you could be missing out on a lot of leads not just every month, or every week, but maybe daily.

      SEO - We will perform your SEO in a way that is safe, strictly following Google's guidelines. We increase the rankings of numerous keywords that people in your city are searching for related to your service... right now they're finding example 1, example 2, and example 3, don't you think you could benefit from all those new leads you can get by being up there with those companies? Let me help you go from being just another service provider, to having a real brand online.

      PPC - We can optimize your campaigns so you can get more for your money. We're experts when it comes to analyzing your cost per click, competitive analysis, and finding additional keywords that can drive additional traffic without increasing your monthly ad spend. We can also optimize your website a bit better so your quality score and cost per click will be reduced which will increase the amount of leads you get with your existing ad spend.
      (NEVER say you will save them money, you can get them MORE for their money).

      You can sell the idea of lead generation, but being specific about what you'll offer. Pick a service... run with it. Don't be the guy that "does it all", it's not working. You think it works because some doctor a while ago wanted something, but you're not giving people a reason to do business with you. If it worked, you wouldn't still trying to be getting to 5k/mo.

      Businesses want leads, yes... but many of them already know what they want to do to get those leads. If they don't, then they are looking for someone specialized... it's like me, I have a siberian husky that needs training. I have the option of going to a dog trainer that also trains cats, turtles, peacocks, etc.... or I can find a dog trainer that specialized in high energy dogs. Which would make more sense for me to go to?

      You going after roofers is a good choice... a little competitive for you, but go for it. Now you have to stick to one thing, and get good at it. Not selling and outsourcing it, but actually understanding it so you know 100% you can deliver and if people don't buy from you then they're clearly not interested in the well being of their business. That, is how you have to treat it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    thank you for that. honestly.
    Im overwhelmed by the genuine care im getting and assistance that pinpointed to my specific problem.
    I also appreciate the exact (word for word) outlines of what i can say to get biz owners interested
    You're right, that i i've made a a number of mistakes and probably am continuing to do so.
    knowing how to actually deliver the results will most def be the turning point for me instead of relying on these guys...
    (quick tangent for a second, the national SEO clients are honestly asking for a lot. I asked a friend of mine, a guy i knew from college ((btw i used to be a social worker-no money and paperwork was murder, and dont get me started with supervision)) who just got a job in chicago with some firm as an in house SEO guy as to how long it would take for me to rank these vitamin and auto transport sites. he told me it would be at least a year and he charges $1000s per month)

    but i need to just suck it up and learn it or else im basically winging it and i cant honestly build a business on that.

    again thank you thank you thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      thank you for that. honestly.
      Im overwhelmed by the genuine care im getting and assistance that pinpointed to my specific problem.
      I also appreciate the exact (word for word) outlines of what i can say to get biz owners interested
      You're right, that i i've made a a number of mistakes and probably am continuing to do so.
      knowing how to actually deliver the results will most def be the turning point for me instead of relying on these guys...
      (quick tangent for a second, the national SEO clients are honestly asking for a lot. I asked a friend of mine, a guy i knew from college ((btw i used to be a social worker-no money and paperwork was murder, and dont get me started with supervision)) who just got a job in chicago with some firm as an in house SEO guy as to how long it would take for me to rank these vitamin and auto transport sites. he told me it would be at least a year and he charges $1000s per month)

      but i need to just suck it up and learn it or else im basically winging it and i cant honestly build a business on that.

      again thank you thank you thank you.
      Look man, I'm going to give you some tough love before you start down a path you're not going to be able to recover from.

      You sound like you have very little practical experience ranking anything, or doing any lead gen or anything like that. If you for some unknown reason are able to swindle one of these customers into giving you money to do the work, there's no way you can deliver. I've done consultation in the supplemental/vitamin niche. They have adpend over $250k a month for some companies on Facebook(even though it's very difficult to get over the $3k a day limit on FB).

      Let me tell you about a failure of mine. I started to do work for a credit repair company, this was my third client. I knew it was going to be tough. I charged them over $6k a month, and I worked my ass off and couldn't get them to budge. This was in 2006 when SEO was EASY compared to now. I ripped them off basically. I did the best I could, but in the end it wasn't enough. I didn't know enough and the market was ultra-competitive. I learned a ton, and I never took on a client that I couldn't handle after that. Sometimes you just have to say no.

      It's people like this that people convince to go out there and just sell that give the rest of us a bad name. Most SEO people are straight out rip-off artists.They won't, can't or don't know how to deliver what they are selling. Is that what you want to be? The problem is you don't have any experience, you don't know who is good and who is bad. Half of the SEO providers here on the WF will give you a short term boost if any at all, and a quarter of them will get your client outright banned or penalyzed from Google. The problem is you don't know enough to know the difference, and you want to put a clients website on a service you haven't vetted yourself. See the issue? SEO is all about testing, finding out what works, finding how the system really works. Half the SEO experts are completely wrong and they constantly argue about what is right and what is not. This isn't a condemnation of you, it's a condemnation really of this forum, and how we focus on the wrong things. It's all about how to get the next client, not about how to become more valuable.

      You're asking the wrong questions. You're asking, how can I get people to pay me $2k a month, when what you should be asking is what are the right things I can provide that business owners are desperate to have that have a value of $10k or more to the client that I can sell for $2k. That's the right question.

      You want to sell lead gen, yet you can't even generate your own leads. Your plan is to cold call and hope you get someone to give you the time of day. I for one am not going to help you do that. Lead generation is advanced level stuff. It's down the line after you've already learned how to do a few things. You have to be good at PPC, Landing page, conversion optimization, funnel creation, irresistible offers, websites, testimonial collection and collation, AB testing, statistics, CTA testing, tripwires, video sales letters, email campaigns, etc, etc. It's not something that you really can just sell and figure out how to do it afterwards, you have to be ready to deliver immediately.

      And here's the next part, if you're a newbie you're going to have to fund the PPC costs to start. You might have to pay for 30 days of PPC costs before you can bill your clients. And of course you don't know what it's going to take to generate the leads. You might have agreed to $100 a lead, only to find out after a month that it's costing $140 a lead to generate those leads(ask me how I know this). So you could have to front $1,000 or more before you ever get paid, and still end up losing money.

      Let me tell you the next thing, clients NEVER pay ontime until you train them. You might bill them on the 1st and if you're not there every day looking for money, they might string you out 2-3-4 weeks or more. Welcome to consulting my friend.

      Want to know the next truth, until you're good at this and you have a good strong stream of customer flow, at least 50% of the time they will bail after getting a month worth of leads from you, and pay you nothing until you know what to do and say so that you can make that number much smaller, and get rid of them faster.

      Here's another hard truth, if you're playing in Google Adwords PPC unless you're good and you're a Quality Score Master you're going to pay WAY more money than you need to for your clicks. I was in a niche and paying around $1.40 per click with a QS of 6, before I got it to a 9 after tons of testing and got it down to closer to $.20. And Google doesn't really like new advertisers, it's a dirty secret that no one ever talks about. New accounts are easily penalized. You could end up easily slipping down the QS scale and the click prices become geometrically higher until eventually they make it too expensive to advertise at all.

      So yeah, I get a little upset when you want to wing it and sell something before you're ready. Start somewhere smaller. Get some PPC clients, learn on their dime, get good at PPC testing and optimization. Use what you get paid from them, to start advertising your own services. I know I've been a little hard on you, but I don't see anything from your posts that lead me to believe you're ready for lead gen... yet.

      Why not do site rentals first? They are much easier to do, you get to learn SEO, and once you've proven you can do it, you can rent it to someone and get a few hundred a month per site. Start with five sites, spend 30-45 days ranking them, rent them for $200 a month and bam there's your $1k a month. Much easier way to do business.
      Signature
      We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
    You don't have to be the one to perform the service (eventually) but you do have to be confident that you can deliver the service.

    And - as Nameless says - that comes with picking a service and understanding it enough to get results before employing others to do it for you.

    It's like calling people up and offering handy man services - anything at all - and not knowing how to do anything yourself. So you call another handyman who says, sure I'll take care of it when you send me the dough.

    You send him the money and he never does anything.

    You can't properly manage results for your clients unless you yourself know how to deliver them -- even if your goal is to have somebody else deliver the results down the road.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    You couldn't pay me to cold call anyone....use your marketing skills and attract business owners to you. Run some Paid Facebook Ads to Business Owners in your city. Then attend local business mixers and meet business owners face to face. Most my clients rannge between $1,500 to $2,500 per month these 2 methods above are exactly how I find them,


    Like IAmNameless said, you need to know what your selling and have confidence in your skills and service.

    Goodluck my friend !!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    if theres anything i love more than a punch in the stomach is some tough love lol.
    I truly appreciate your words.
    words from the heart enter the heart.
    I hear it all, I'm not qualified to do the work so i shouldnt be selling it, and im not qualified to choose the outsourcers so there again im not ready to sell it.

    I honestly want to thank you MRomeo09 for your words, they are definitely something im going to seriously think over (as well as all you guys) before i cold call again.

    thanks for the suggestions, im going back to the drawing board and creating a plan of action.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      I hear it all, I'm not qualified to do the work so i shouldnt be selling it, and im not qualified to choose the outsourcers so there again im not ready to sell it.
      It's good that you see that. BUT... Just because you shouldn't be selling it and you're not ready right now, doesn't mean you won't ever be able to. You shouldn't see this as a bad thing, you just need to change up what you're selling. You have no business selling lead generation.... however, you could certainly sell website design... logo design, and easily outsource that since that is definitely easier to make decisions on who to hire.

      I also think Romeo's idea for site rentals is a good one. Best way for you to get your feet wet and eventually get into lead generation.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvjonnyc
    thats an idea but who buys websites now?
    I mean if they dont have a site by now, they probably will be a hard nut to crack to get them to agree on one.
    also, if they dont have one, they they probably wont want to cough up any significant amount to get one.

    this is what i sent about 1000 yahoo website owners (you know they really uchy sites- sorry if you have one)

    Hey,

    I’m going to get straight to the point.*

    Based on your current yahoo website, do you think you are attracting the quality of potential you are targeting?

    My name is Jonathan Chapman, and I can help. We can make your site look and feel more welcoming; and in the process, get more traffic (visitors) who will actually call you.*

    Feel free to reply or call me directly at 555-555-5555
    with any questions or comments. *

    Thanks so much and I look forward to hearing back.

    Jonathan C

    basically the responses i got were "please put me on your do not call, email, etc... list"

    I thought it was a pretty good email, I mean i might have responded to it positively if motivated
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    • Profile picture of the author misterme
      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      thats an idea but who buys websites now?
      I mean if they dont have a site by now, they probably will be a hard nut to crack to get them to agree on one.
      also, if they dont have one, they they probably wont want to cough up any significant amount to get one.
      Here's the problem. You're jumping to conclusions based on how you reason things. Those reasons may not apply to the market though they seem logical to you.

      For example, the reason someone with a site might want another site is because if the site you built is pulling leads why wouldn't they want to add that to their arsenal?

      And just because they don't have a site right now doesn't mean they don't have the money for one and it doesn't mean they're not thinking about having one.

      Will it be a "hard nut to crack to get them to agree on one"? Probably. That's why you need to have good marketing and sales skills. If it were easy then a seven year old could do it.

      this is what i sent about 1000 yahoo website owners (you know they really uchy sites- sorry if you have one)

      Hey,

      I’m going to get straight to the point.*

      Based on your current yahoo website, do you think you are attracting the quality of potential you are targeting?

      My name is Jonathan Chapman, and I can help. We can make your site look and feel more welcoming; and in the process, get more traffic (visitors) who will actually call you.*

      Feel free to reply or call me directly at 555-555-5555
      with any questions or comments. *

      Thanks so much and I look forward to hearing back.

      Jonathan C

      basically the responses i got were "please put me on your do not call, email, etc... list"

      I thought it was a pretty good email, I mean i might have responded to it positively if motivated
      That answers the question, "does this email motivate people positively?"

      And the answer is, "it positively motivates them to get off your list."

      Which means they saw it as junk.

      Why would that be? Several reasons.

      I don't know what the subject line was but maybe they felt misled.

      Or maybe the email made them feel insulted.

      The email you wrote may work if the person getting it feels totally defeated, depressed, hopeless, frustrated and frayed, about their website because no one's calling off of it.

      They may see it as a glimmer of hope. Everyone else is probably getting the message you're calling their baby ugly.

      But even the ones who see a chance of rescue in your email have no compelling reason to call you. You haven't demonstrated you have the ability to help. You haven't made it so enticing, so compelling, that the recipient must call you.

      All you did was leave it up to them to decide if some day maybe they should call a strange number that may or may not help if this web site thing never turns around for them and they still need a hand.

      And of course by then they'll forget all about your email.

      Or go with someone else who demonstrates they have abilities.
      Signature
      "Best book on answering objections I have seen... it's for photographers but it has brilliant techniques you can use in any business." - Claude Whitacre. When They Say That, You Say This (Amazon Kindle)
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by jvjonnyc View Post

      thats an idea but who buys websites now?
      I mean if they dont have a site by now, they probably will be a hard nut to crack to get them to agree on one.
      also, if they dont have one, they they probably wont want to cough up any significant amount to get one.

      this is what i sent about 1000 yahoo website owners (you know they really uchy sites- sorry if you have one)

      Hey,

      I'm going to get straight to the point.*

      Based on your current yahoo website, do you think you are attracting the quality of potential you are targeting?

      My name is Jonathan Chapman, and I can help. We can make your site look and feel more welcoming; and in the process, get more traffic (visitors) who will actually call you.*

      Feel free to reply or call me directly at 555-555-5555
      with any questions or comments. *

      Thanks so much and I look forward to hearing back.

      Jonathan C

      basically the responses i got were "please put me on your do not call, email, etc... list"

      I thought it was a pretty good email, I mean i might have responded to it positively if motivated
      A couple things here... I'll start it off by saying your email is garbage, and one email isn't going to do it. You need a sequence of emails, building trust throughout. You're offering no value. I have clients who get about 50 emails like yours a day.

      Also... when relying on email marketing... 1,000 isn't enough... you need about 20,000 and hammer it weekly.

      If you emailed 1,000 individually, then after about 25 or 50 then your email went straight into spam or junk.

      Next issue here... who buys websites? People buy websites every day, whether they buy from you and me, is another issue. It's in demand and probably the most in demand service of all.

      I'll tell you who the people are....
      - Those without a website
      - Those who want a new website
      - Those who want a responsive website
      - Those who are embarassed by their website
      - Those who lost contact with their "web guy"
      - Those who can't make changes to their website and want an easier platform
      - Those who start new companies
      - Those who start new branch locations
      - Those who realize their website is not search friendly
      - Those who want to focus more on online marketing, and realize the website is the cornerstone.
      - Those who want to convert more of their existing traffic

      Truly, maybe 5% of the people out there are really happy with their website. People always have an issue, maybe they're spending too much monthly, maybe they're unable to make changes, maybe there's something wrong with it in their eyes even though it looks great to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
    If you're working with a roofer I don't see any ethical bribe info or free video that you would give away that ANY prospect would care about in order to become a hot lead.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Do you have an intimate understanding of the roofing industry, products, installation practices?

      If not I can see why you replied the way you have.

      Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post

      If you're working with a roofer I don't see any ethical bribe info or free video that you would give away that ANY prospect would care about in order to become a hot lead.
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  • Profile picture of the author Action Man
    i will see before hand if they had a mobile friendly site, and if not i would build one using wills stuff thats well known here, just takes 10 mins, and email them with a link to what you can do, with an example site

    discuss the rest later

    cheers

    Jim
    Signature

    "Love conquers all things except poverty and toothache" (Mae West)

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