Critique my offline local SEO business model

by bss2t
31 replies
A good friend and I are starting a local SEO company. We have moderate success with another business already, have degrees in business admin and accounting, and a background in sales.

We decided to start an SEO company because we have had good luck ranking our own business sites, as well as others...and we find that it is a high profit recurring revenue model which we like.

We have plans to hire 5 salespeople to do outbound calling to industry specific lists. Our first list is real estate agents. Here is what we are assuming...

1. Average salesperson will call 125 calls/day average.
2. We will speak to minimum 25 people/day.
3. Over time we would like to close 10 people/month, but are ok with 5 people per month. Price point will average around $400/month.

What do you guys think of these assumptions? We are going to do some marketing to create inbound leads as well, but want this to be the icing on the cake....not the bread and butter. Any info/advice is appreciated.
#business #critique #local #model #offline #seo
  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by bss2t View Post

    A good friend and I are starting a local SEO company. We have moderate success with another business already, have degrees in business admin and accounting, and a background in sales.

    We decided to start an SEO company because we have had good luck ranking our own business sites, as well as others...and we find that it is a high profit recurring revenue model which we like.

    We have plans to hire 5 salespeople to do outbound calling to industry specific lists. Our first list is real estate agents. Here is what we are assuming...

    1. Average salesperson will call 125 calls/day average.
    2. We will speak to minimum 25 people/day.
    3. Over time we would like to close 10 people/month, but are ok with 5 people per month. Price point will average around $400/month.

    What do you guys think of these assumptions? We are going to do some marketing to create inbound leads as well, but want this to be the icing on the cake....not the bread and butter. Any info/advice is appreciated.
    5 people making calls 5 days a week 4 weeks a month. you would be happy with bringing in 5 clients a month which translates to $2000. where is the money? I personally have ONE salesperson and they costs me more than that a month. Let alone me making a profit.

    You did say you are biz ad and accounting grads?

    In a real world scenario ( based on my own personal experience dealing with the service you do ) I MIGHT see a break even point after 6 months with $400 a month I personally do 90 day SEO contracts STARTING at $5000. And even at THAT I am by no means the high end of the scale.

    IF you can show that you have GOTTEN results.... and thatyou are more than confident you can PROVIDE results. charge more, will make the accountant happier.
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  • Profile picture of the author bss2t
    My apologies, 5 sales per salesperson.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by bss2t View Post

      My apologies, 5 sales per salesperson.
      ok even at $10,000 a month.. you guys are the ones with degrees here.. what is the over head? insurance? how much you plan on paying these people? are you and your partner doing the SEO? what is your time worth? are you sending the SEO out? how much is that?

      If YOU are doing the SEO can you really handle 10 clients the first month.. 20 the second, 30 the third?

      What is the SHORT term plan for scaling? HAVE you even thought of that? What is the peak number of clients do you think you can handle? ( I will tell you right now if you have discussed a number cut it in half at least )

      If I am reading the OP correctly this is more of a side gig for you 2. Something you can set up, you get together and goof off a few hours a week and do some SEO for clients and rake in the cash. ( excuse the southern in me ) but, Son, it don't work like that.

      I recall you saying in the OP that you have had some success ranking your business sites and a few others. how much time did that take? I will bet you toiled at it for more than a few months. but hey you did it ( Praising you for that by the way ) but doing it for someone else is another ball game.

      I am in now way trying to set you back... just pointing out the more than obvious pit falls.
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      • Profile picture of the author bss2t
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        ok even at $10,000 a month.. you guys are the ones with degrees here.. what is the over head? insurance? how much you plan on paying these people? are you and your partner doing the SEO? what is your time worth? are you sending the SEO out? how much is that?

        If YOU are doing the SEO can you really handle 10 clients the first month.. 20 the second, 30 the third?

        What is the SHORT term plan for scaling? HAVE you even thought of that? What is the peak number of clients do you think you can handle? ( I will tell you right now if you have discussed a number cut it in half at least )

        If I am reading the OP correctly this is more of a side gig for you 2. Something you can set up, you get together and goof off a few hours a week and do some SEO for clients and rake in the cash. ( excuse the southern in me ) but, Son, it don't work like that.

        I recall you saying in the OP that you have had some success ranking your business sites and a few others. how much time did that take? I will bet you toiled at it for more than a few months. but hey you did it ( Praising you for that by the way ) but doing it for someone else is another ball game.

        I am in now way trying to set you back... just pointing out the more than obvious pit falls.

        First, this is not a side gig, but our "main gig" start up. We are putting a lot of time and capital into this.

        We are outsourcing the SEO so I do not expect that our providers will have any issue with the amount of sales we are shooting for.

        For those of you who say that we need to prove the script/model first, I agree. We plan on taking a few weeks and working out the bugs in these processes.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          under normal circumstances I would suggest to hire the offshore SEO and rank your page for #1 in "Your City SEO" however.... you don't stand a chance doing that in the Nashville market. I would say that the best you will get is probably page 3 at best.

          All that being said...

          You got a plan and you are probably going to move forward with it regardless, so best of luck man!
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          • Profile picture of the author Underground
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            under normal circumstances I would suggest to hire the offshore SEO and rank your page for #1 in "Your City SEO" however.... you don't stand a chance doing that in the Nashville market. I would say that the best you will get is probably page 3 at best.

            All that being said...

            You got a plan and you are probably going to move forward with it regardless, so best of luck man!
            They should drill down. There's probably seo related long-tail phrases that gets more traffic then that main one which they could still rank for.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Underground View Post

              They should drill down. There's probably seo related long-tail phrases that gets more traffic then that main one which they could still rank for.
              uh no.. you think Becker is the stuff? Nashville is the home of the guy /guys that taught him everything he knows. there is nothing on that plate. If you would happen to take a look at the keyword "Nashville SEO" take a look down at #10.. ok I will save you the look, its a WEEBLY page.

              This 1 company has #1 in the 3 pack. the #1 #2 #3 #5 #7 #9 and #10 ( with a freakin weebly page. ) do you really think they are not hitting long tail as well? out of 13 possible spots on page 1 they have 8 of them. Im not even going to bother with page 2, its just as bad. ha ha

              Id move.. hahaha j/k but any one else thinking about that market might want to think about it!
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              • Profile picture of the author Underground
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                uh no.. you think Becker is the stuff? Nashville is the home of the guy /guys that taught him everything he knows. there is nothing on that plate. If you would happen to take a look at the keyword "Nashville SEO" take a look down at #10.. ok I will save you the look, its a WEEBLY page.

                This 1 company has #1 in the 3 pack. the #1 #2 #3 #5 #7 #9 and #10 ( with a freakin weebly page. ) do you really think they are not hitting long tail as well? out of 13 possible spots on page 1 they have 8 of them. Im not even going to bother with page 2, its just as bad. ha ha

                Id move.. hahaha j/k but any one else thinking about that market might want to think about it!
                I didn't mean long Nashville SEO, SEO Nashville, Nashville SEO services or anything obvious.

                I should have made it clearer, as I assume everyone takes the same lateral view of SEO that I do. If he did indepth segmentation and keyword analysis he would find keywords and phrases he could rank for that aren't on the same train of thought as his competitors, who want to take anything directly associated with Nashville SEO or any variation, and are more aligned with how business owners looking for more leads think. Keywords he'd never think of, but who would be people open to checking out what he does if he positions himself differently from simply being another SEO.


                Of course there's still opportunity there.


                Listen, I think this: that most SEO's all go for the same general band of keywords related to what they do, both long tail and short tail.

                And I think by them thinking so conventionally, there is always opportunities to exploit, you just have to find them or at least look, rather than assume anything.

                I know the guys at OMG focus on more narrow keywords anyway. I have their course. That's why for the term nashville seo internet marketing, they're aren't dominating. Nor for nashville internet marketing.

                So yes, research pays off and their is still opportunity.
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Underground,

                  I will tell you upfront I DONT have their course ( I have been using a very similar system for years ) I do keep tabs on most anything "Cutting edge" SEO wise ( tho their system is not ) have you looked at "Nashville SEO internet marketing"? they are at #1 #2 #3 #7 and #9. that's still pretty much "Dominating"

                  Pull "SEO" out of the equation and yes they are a bit slacking, but still very much present. ( I will presume that if they are anything like me... they will read this in a day or 2 and will start filling in holes )

                  The issue here becomes traffic in a sense. If you are selling widgets. "Widgets" is the obvious term. once you start isolating "Red Widgets" and "Red Shiny Widgets" you are incrementally decreasing potential traffic. This follows along with the idea of Niching, and I think its a bunch of crap. Yes you are isolating pockets of traffic, BUT when you are dealing specifically in terms of localization... you can VERY QUICKLY dry up your traffic source.

                  Lets tear apart "Nashville Internet Marketing" its only getting like 300 searches A YEAR... again A YEAR. If you pull 1% of traffic to close ( which is a ridiculous expectation ) you are looking at 3 clients a year. But looking at "Nashville SEO"... at over 10,000 searches a year... closing 1% of traffic, that's a WOW moment ( again a ridiculous expectation but we want to compare apples here )

                  Sure I get the concept of spreading across 20 50 even 100 long tail terms, but the reality is in most cases the potential traffic flow falls short.

                  I think that in essence the biggest fail made in internet marketing today is digging to deep. There comes a point that "Targeting" becomes "Isolation" or in other terms drilling so deep into a niche, there simply is not the demand load needed for any amount of success.

                  This is why to the masses SEO does not work, and PPC is the only way to go. PPC gives you instant feedback as to the traffic you are getting and the traffic flow you are presenting to. You can simply change your keyword targets to get the needed traffic.

                  You and I both know that the tools are out there to do the exact same thing with SEO. I can tell you pretty much on any given month for any given keyword what the average overall traffic flow will be. Better yet I have been doing this long enough I can more than likely tell you how much traffic SERP numbers 1 through 10 should expect.

                  Its just math.. the whole thing is simply that,1 big equation. Learning basically by trail and error in many cases which variables matter the most. SEO really isn't rocket science, but cross linking and changing image titles is not really the "Whole" answer. ( actually its barely part of the answer ha ha )


                  Originally Posted by Underground View Post

                  I didn't mean long Nashville SEO, SEO Nashville, Nashville SEO services or anything obvious.

                  I should have made it clearer, as I assume everyone takes the same lateral view of SEO that I do. If he did indepth segmentation and keyword analysis he would find keywords and phrases he could rank for that aren't on the same train of thought as his competitors, who want to take anything directly associated with Nashville SEO or any variation, and are more aligned with how business owners looking for more leads think. Keywords he'd never think of, but who would be people open to checking out what he does if he positions himself differently from simply being another SEO.


                  Of course there's still opportunity there.


                  Listen, I think this: that most SEO's all go for the same general band of keywords related to what they do, both long tail and short tail.

                  And I think by them thinking so conventionally, there is always opportunities to exploit, you just have to find them or at least look, rather than assume anything.

                  I know the guys at OMG focus on more narrow keywords anyway. I have their course. That's why for the term nashville seo internet marketing, they're aren't dominating. Nor for nashville internet marketing.

                  So yes, research pays off and their is still opportunity.
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              • Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                uh no.. you think Becker is the stuff? Nashville is the home of the guy /guys that taught him everything he knows. there is nothing on that plate. If you would happen to take a look at the keyword "Nashville SEO" take a look down at #10.. ok I will save you the look, its a WEEBLY page.

                This 1 company has #1 in the 3 pack. the #1 #2 #3 #5 #7 #9 and #10 ( with a freakin weebly page. ) do you really think they are not hitting long tail as well? out of 13 possible spots on page 1 they have 8 of them. Im not even going to bother with page 2, its just as bad. ha ha

                Id move.. hahaha j/k but any one else thinking about that market might want to think about it!
                THAT IS SICK!!!! A weebly page hahaha
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          A bit of a conflict in your posts

          Originally Posted by bss2t View Post

          We decided to start an SEO company because we have had good luck ranking our own business sites, as well as others...and we find that it is a high profit recurring revenue model which we like.
          Originally Posted by bss2t View Post

          First, this is not a side gig, but our "main gig" start up. We are putting a lot of time and capital into this.

          We are outsourcing the SEO so I do not expect that our providers will have any issue with the amount of sales we are shooting for.
          Seems like you are saying you are good at SEO and getting into it and then it turns south to outsourcing the whole thing. Anyway I know a few shops that do that kind of assembly line SEO and they all end up developing quite the bad reputation in no time.Outsourcing doesn't mean they can take on volume without sacrificing quality.plus seeing as how you are taking a piece of the pie it sounds like you are going for some really questionable SEO to build a business on.
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  • Profile picture of the author CollegeCEO
    This is the second thread I've seen with someone planning on starting a new SEO company, and one thing sticks out to me: Why does everyone want to hire salespeople before they've even gotten any clients themselves? What do you plan on doing while your salespeople are working? And how in the world are you going to train them if you haven't closed any sales yourself? Everybody seems to want to create these "hands-off" SEO businesses where other people do all the work. It doesn't work that way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by CollegeCEO View Post

      This is the second thread I've seen with someone planning on starting a new SEO company, and one thing sticks out to me: Why does everyone want to hire salespeople before they've even gotten any clients themselves? What do you plan on doing while your salespeople are working? And how in the world are you going to train them if you haven't closed any sales yourself? Everybody seems to want to create these "hands-off" SEO businesses where other people do all the work. It doesn't work that way.
      Thank you. Intelligent questions here.

      Are you going to just assume that your presentations work? That prospects will buy with no objections? That your salespeople will wing it?

      If you are training your salespeople, what will that be based on? Guessing?

      You and you friend need to make sales first...work out the bugs...and then hire salespeople. About the second time a salesperson asks you a question, and you say "I have no idea", you'll be exposed as rank beginners.

      Are you going to teach them how to cold call? And what will the script be based on? Something you read in a book? Shouldn't it be tested? Proven? At least then you would have a standard set, so you'll know how to measure their performance.


      If you want to have any chance for this idea to succeed, you need to sell yourself for at least a few months. Make at least 30 sales yourself. Then you'll have something to teach your new guys. But just thinking you'll hire people, and they'll know how to sell, and you'll just make money....is a pipe dream.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    Right now OP is just guessing on those numbers. The only way to know what will happen is to just do it (Nike?). If you don't meet your target goals tweak/adjust until your happy with results.

    Personally I would target existing web/dev clients: Where do non pro SEO's get their clients?
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Right now OP is just guessing on those numbers. The only way to know what will happen is to just do it (Nike?). If you don't meet your target goals tweak/adjust until your happy with results.
      Well, that's a great suggestion, as long as they have an unlimited budget to blow through before achieving any bankable results.

      If they're paying their sales people on commission, there is no income until you 'tweak' to perfection. If they are paying them by the hour - there will never be any income and the turnover will be unmanageable and extremely disheartening. Additionally, if you can't demonstrate to the new hires that the person calling from the desk next to theirs is making good money, why would a good telemarketer want to go to work there? Great telemarketers work on straight commission as they do NOT want their income to be limited in any way. They expect to be handed a proven, time-tested sales method, that when combined with their telemarketing skills will result in success for all involved.

      Without all of that, their business model is nothing more than a pipe-dream.

      Just my 2ยข.

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Madness even hiring outbounders in your case. If you have the seed capital and have SEO skills you should be parking your bus in front of people already searching through search and paid search.

    A good web funnel will do all the heavy lifting and weeding out, and then you'll be talking to people who have been filled in on most of the issues and have a strong desire for what you offer.

    With the right money and skills to rank or advertise for the right keywords, you could be bringing in thousands of potential buyers to you a month. No need for 5 sales people. It's not 1975
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    I would think bigger, sell a SEO Package, back it up with Lead Generation, Search and Social Media Marketing. Charge $1,500 - $4,000 per month depending on the size of the client.

    That sounds like a long grueling road of cold calls and getting low value clients IMO

    Good luck !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Again you assume I think at the most basic level, and think he should find 4 or 5 alternative keywords with a trickle of traffic just for the sake of it.



    I'm talkng about complete market and vertical research and analysis to find relevant segments, which you call niching and think is a load of crap. With the right software, like Krakken from themezoom, or even wordstream's free suite of tools, he could do that kind of analysis, pinpoint clusters of keywords that would add up to a lot of traffic, and have a good chance of dominating.

    This would mean building silo architecture with their software and be ranking for 100's of keywords. Or using Becker's methods of getting lots of keyword variations on a page to get that page ranking for many different variations, at the very least, which is strong point of Becker's methods.

    Again, I'm lazy minded in suggesting it and then just assuming others would know about all the silo stuff and how to do it properly.

    And yes, people can say silo's are dead and this and that, etc.

    But themezoom take a different approach and build sites to dominate a market, even though they are affiliated with OMG. They have a 180 approach of building big structured silo sites going for hundreds, even thousands of keywords at a time, rather than 1 keyword, like Nashville SEO.


    If you think market segmentation and positioning is crap, or simply changing titles and tags, then you've never done it properly in the way I'm saying.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Actually I believe that you are assuming that I am assuming. But I believe you are missing my point. If your base point is so low, there is only so much lateral movement that can be made. From my prospective to even start optimizing for SEO at a city level is silly. Looking at the examples we are using here "Nashville Seo" sure these guys are ranking well at "Tennessee SEO" #1 #2 #3 #4 #6 and #7 but you look at "Memphis SEO" and all the sudden you see the flaw.

      Again this goes with my theory about niching... you get so deep you start missing out. Sure I get it Context based content is nothing new.. I will bet if you were to ask Becker, he probably got the concept from the boys over at Traffic Travis.

      The theory is the deeper you go, the more targeted the traffic the higher the percentage of close. but if you send client off to a context based piece of content, really what are the chances they are going to stick? It simply is going to be "relevant" ( and in this case I am using the term for a lack of another ) but not going to be a "Sales page" that will close the deal.

      In a retail I sell products world this stuff works... from a real world I sell services aspect, the same can not be said. In fact it would / does end up the opposite.

      So if you look at the base level ideal customer across the 2 "working" SEO methods right now there is Context based and this is intended for product driven sites. and then there is the PBN driven system that is very effective for a more service oriented delivery.

      Without question you can "Juice" a product based site, but it is self defeating to use context based content when selling a service. The landing is simply not designed or targeted enough to sell.

      and by the way, I am very aware of the use of silos and PBN's and juicing. Ive been using these methods for a long time now. They are NOT new concepts. I might suggest that the methods that OMG are using will get "caught" some time in the future. the "Big Change" that they refer to Google would have to make is really not that big.

      I have said it before and I will say it again If you become the serp "Exception" Google will get you. its only a matter of time. Nice and steady, not #1 and not dead last.. just some where comfortably in the middle.


      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Again you assume I think at the most basic level, and think he should find 4 or 5 alternative keywords with a trickle of traffic just for the sake of it.



      I'm target about complete market and vertical research and analysis to find relevant segments, which you call niching and think is a load of crap. With the right software, like Krakken from themezoom, he could do that kind of analysis, pinpoint clusters of keywords that would add up to a lot of traffic, and have a good chance of dominating.

      This would mean building silo architecture with their software and be ranking for 100's of keywords. Or using Becker's methods of getting lots of keyword variations on a page to get that page ranking for many different variations, at the very least, which is strong point of Becker's methods.

      Again, I'm lazy minded in suggesting it and then just assuming others would know about all the silo stuff.

      And yes, people can say silo's are dead and this and that, etc.

      But themezoom take a different approach and build sites to dominate a market, even though they are affiliated with OMG. They have a 180 approach of building big structured silo sites going for hundreds of keywords at a time, rather than 1 keyword, like Nashville SEO.


      If you think market segmentation and position is crap, or simply changing titles and tags, then you've never done it properly in the way I'm saying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Originally Posted by savidge4

    The issue here becomes traffic in a sense. If you are selling widgets. "Widgets" is the obvious term. once you start isolating "Red Widgets" and "Red Shiny Widgets" you are incrementally decreasing potential traffic. This follows along with the idea of Niching, and I think its a bunch of crap. Yes you are isolating pockets of traffic, BUT when you are dealing specifically in terms of localization... you can VERY QUICKLY dry up your traffic source.

    Lets tear apart "Nashville Internet Marketing" its only getting like 300 searches A YEAR... again A YEAR. If you pull 1% of traffic to close ( which is a ridiculous expectation ) you are looking at 3 clients a year. But looking at "Nashville SEO"... at over 10,000 searches a year... closing 1% of traffic, that's a WOW moment ( again a ridiculous expectation but we want to compare apples here )

    Let me just say something on this part in particular. Yes, with Nashville SEO, you could go for that and beat Mike Long if you were prepared to put the money in, since you know his methods. It's all about how much you're willing to spend. And if it's even necessary at all to reach your income goals.

    When you go for major keyword terms where there is major competition and companies invested millions, then unless you can do the same, you have to forget about them because you're only going to burn money.

    Any even half decent SEO authority would tell you the same and to look for areas where you can win and make a positive ROI.

    In an ideal world, yes you'd be able to rank for the most trafficked terms. That's obvious. But not plausible in a lot of cases, particular if your competing against big info or gov sites.

    You think people should give up if they can't rank for the main terms? Even though they can still get thousands of target visitors a month by identifying other keywords and having a solid strategy to rank for a lot of them.

    We've gotten into an ego argument here, which I hate. ''I'm right''. I don't give a shit about that, I care about what's true.

    Your claim that apart from anything to do with the ''location + SEO'' it's not worth it? Because you claim traffic flows falls short?


    This is exactly why there is opportunity abound for those willing to properly do the work and find out what's actually there. Because most people think like that. It's not true.

    Larry Kim, from Wordstream ranks for hundreds of thousands of keywords he doesn't optimise for. There's a free tool at wordstream.com that lets you group keywords and segment properly, that would allow people to find a good silo structure to target and gain traffic from many different, relevant search terms.

    I haven't got the time or inclination to do indepth keyword and market analysis on that market, since I have other areas I'm currently working on in that regard, but I bet that with a bit of expansive thinking beyond random keyword thinking to how clients think, what they are looking for, market research, keyword grouping, siloing, a decent site hitting lots of different keywords and generating over a thousand targeted visitors a month could be set up and ranked for within 90 days or so max, and with traffic and leads coming in well before that. I've seen many examples.

    Here's a couple of free guides from Wordstream, one of the top PPC and Search companies in the world for anyone interested on keyword research and commercial intent.

    http://www.wordstream.com/download/d...earch-tips.pdf

    http://www.wordstream.com/download/d...ial_intent.pdf
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I'm confused about something. I don't see any single SEO firm with the results Savage is saying for the Nashville terms so what gives Savage.

    Let me say something about my perspective on competition in the serps.

    Your only competition is the level of skill the other SEO firms have, that's pretty much IT!
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Rus...

      #1 Nashville SEO
      Top of 3 pack the same
      #3 Video by Mike, the same
      #5 meetup is basically the same
      #7 the yelp listing is the same
      #9 facebook, the same
      #10 weebly page the same

      not to mention:
      #12
      #14
      #16
      #17
      #18

      Rus absolutely agree you are simply against the skills of the other firms, but 12 spots out of 24 total over 2 pages really does say something about whom you are competing against.

      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I'm confused about something. I don't see any single SEO firm with the results Savage is saying for the Nashville terms so what gives Savage.

      Let me say something about my perspective on competition in the serps.

      Your only competition is the level of skill the other SEO firms have, that's pretty much IT!
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Honestly I discount assets that aren't from the actual domain of the business.

        To me a Yelp, facebook, and meetup listing in the SERPS tends to expose the holes. They're like place holders to me.

        At any rate I'm still getting way different results then what you say they are getting. That's Google though.


        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Rus...

        #1 Nashville SEO
        Top of 3 pack the same
        #3 Video by Mike, the same
        #5 meetup is basically the same
        #7 the yelp listing is the same
        #9 facebook, the same
        #10 weebly page the same

        not to mention:
        #12
        #14
        #16
        #17
        #18

        Rus absolutely agree you are simply against the skills of the other firms, but 12 spots out of 24 total over 2 pages really does say something about whom you are competing against.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Rus,

          I get what you are saying... but the reality is you can discount all you want but the fact that they are "holding places" in the top 10 and even the top 20. To be honest I have no freakin interest in "Nashville SEO" other than the fact that one of the "founders" of a educational product I watch happens to run that company.

          I personally watch SEO trends... basically what will be the next target by Google. I see the OMG system as being one of those, and I use to a greater extent the same type of system. I personally have made some changes in the last few years to how I use PBN's that will ( fingers cross ) separate my use from the "exception" that is extremely visible.

          Context content on the other hand has been around but since hummingbird, has come into its own. with time even that will become an "Exception"

          Half the battle I believe is seeing what Google is going to smack next or in the near future and pull away or change up your methods to steer clear of the penalties.


          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          Honestly I discount assets that aren't from the actual domain of the business.

          To me a Yelp, facebook, and meetup listing in the SERPS tends to expose the holes. They're like place holders to me.

          At any rate I'm still getting way different results then what you say they are getting. That's Google though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    What I mean by positioning and segmenting your customer base so you analyse more accurately what problems you solve and who would be interested, is the process of that would snap you out of the restrictive little box where you identify yourself only as an SEO.

    If that is all you are billing yourself as, then yes, it's restrictive in a local sense. But that isn't necessary to do that.

    Internet Marketing Services Nashville (without SEO needing to be in there) is just one of many segments outside of the SEO box you could tap into if you're position yourself properly as more than just a SEO specialist.

    If you were to offer a complete SEO service geared towards customer's ROI rather than just taking their money like most, you'd have to offer content creation, social media signals, lead capture and autoresponder set as well, so you could create keyword groups with a subset of promising keywords for each of those. Plus many more. Online Marketing. Digital Marketing. Inbound marketing. Content marketing. Lead generation. Increasing sales online, etc. All of those just want to successfully market their business online, and if you could get infront of them with the right offers and relevant solutions you could capture a nice percentage of those segments profitably too.

    So many more you wouldn't think of till you ran an indepth keyword and market analysis.

    That's what I meant.





    Without question you can "Juice" a product based site, but it is self defeating to use context based content when selling a service. The landing is simply not designed or targeted enough to sell.
    I see what you're getting at. You can though make all the pages landing pages and look to capture those leads and get them into your funnel, and then launch you're follow up stuff, for those pages where there are less buyer intent.

    Some can just be sales pages, like this one, once you have them ranked for high commercial intent keywords:

    Automated Sales |(877)236.9094

    He ranks number 2 for the term automated sales funnels.

    That's a decent sales/lead capture page. Some might be in the market there and then and be impressed and phone him and become a customer in short order.


    Some might take longer.

    Some not at all.


    But you don't have to create a load of long-tail blog posts or pointless SEO articles for your top keywords. You can still make them transactional like this above page.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      I agree with you 100% but look at the OP and the base of this discussion. what is the OP in the process of setting up? A SEO driven business at $400 a month no less so we can more than kind of presume they are not offering other services.

      Again looking at "Internet Marketing Service Nashville" who has the #1 spot? Who is most likely going to see a business start leveraging not so focused keywords? who is more than likely going to react to seeing the leveraging because they can?

      Im really not trying to argue, Im not even trying to be a piss ant.

      The fact is what I do and how I do it differs greatly from what you do, and that's ok. either way it works for us individually. You sell what you are good at and nothing more. I personally am really good at selling product. I can sell the hell out of ladies shoes, or the corner coffee store. but ask me to sell a service and I suck. Its not that I cant, I simply don't consistently develop the structures that are made for that.

      My idea of a sales funnel is a shopping cart LOL only kidding, ok maybe kidding only a little. I think everyone here has specialized in one form or another.



      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      What I mean by positioning and segmenting your customer base so you analyse more accurately what problems you solve and who would be interested, is the process of that would snap you out of the restrictive little box where you identify yourself only as an SEO.

      If that is all you are billing yourself as, then yes, it's restrictive in a local sense. But that isn't necessary to do that.

      Internet Marketing Services Nashville (without SEO needing to be in there) is just one of many segments outside of the SEO box you could tap into if you're position yourself properly as more than just a SEO specialist.

      If you were to offer a complete SEO service geared towards customer's ROI rather than just taking their money like most, you'd have to offer content creation, social media signals, lead capture and autoresponder set as well, so you could create keyword groups with a subset of promising keywords for each of those. Plus many more. Online Marketing. Digital Marketing. Inbound marketing. Content marketing. Lead generation. Increasing sales online, etc. All of those just want to successfully market their business online, and if you could get infront of them with the right offers and relevant solutions you could capture a nice percentage of those segments profitably too.

      So many more you wouldn't think of till you ran an indepth keyword and market analysis.

      That's what I meant.







      I see what you're getting at. You can though make all the pages landing pages and look to capture those leads and get them into your funnel, and then launch you're follow up stuff, for those pages where there are less buyer intent.

      Some can just be sales pages, like this one, once you have them ranked for high commercial intent keywords:

      Automated Sales |(877)236.9094

      He ranks number 2 for the term automated sales funnels.

      That's a decent sales/lead capture page. Some might be in the market there and then and be impressed and phone him and become a customer in short order.


      Some might take longer.

      Some not at all.


      But you don't have to create a load of long-tail blog posts or pointless SEO articles for your top keywords. You can still make the transactional like this above page.
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      • Profile picture of the author Underground
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I agree with you 100% but look at the OP and the base of this discussion. what is the OP in the process of setting up? A SEO driven business at $400 a month no less so we can more than kind of presume they are not offering other services.

        Again looking at "Internet Marketing Service Nashville" who has the #1 spot? Who is most likely going to see a business start leveraging not so focused keywords? who is more than likely going to react to seeing the leveraging because they can?

        Im really not trying to argue, Im not even trying to be a piss ant.

        The fact is what I do and how I do it differs greatly from what you do, and that's ok. either way it works for us individually. You sell what you are good at and nothing more. I personally am really good at selling product. I can sell the hell out of ladies shoes, or the corner coffee store. but ask me to sell a service and I suck. Its not that I cant, I simply don't consistently develop the structures that are made for that.

        My idea of a sales funnel is a shopping cart LOL only kidding, ok maybe kidding only a little. I think everyone here has specialized in one form or another.


        I'm looking forward to moving into e-commerce and seeing what kind of marriage I can create between that and SEO if any, using the silo stuff.

        I was so clueless when I began I thought I was going into selling marketing 'products', as that is how they are pitched here. I didn't realize that I was getting into a field that required so much service and real application of expertise making it a complex sell. Unfortunately I've never had a client prostrate themselves in front of me begging to take my money as soon as I introduced my services, like all those lucky WSO sellers get on a regular basis. (Perhaps if I write a WSO that might start happening to me too?)


        Now I'll see it through and gain the cashflow needed to just generate contracts for other businesses. A simple sell as your going to get.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
    As others have said. Your $400 price point is really low - even if you are outsourcing it. Of course this all depends on your industry too but I wouldn't charge anything less than $750 for any SEO search package.

    But you should stop thinking about "services" and start thinking about solutions. Business owners want new leads & customers - How are you going to get do that? Yeah, maybe your method is SEO, but that doesn't generate traffic right away right?

    I offer search & social packages, with and without paid advertising depending on their budget. I'm charging a substantial amount more- but their phone is ringing this week not 3-6 months down the road. That statement alone is very powerful, and has helped me close more new deals that I can remember.

    When i do get pushback on my rates- i simply say:

    Even if I charged $20,000 per month but I generate you $100,000, you'd cut me a check every month like clockwork.

    Just think, there's so many people competing for table scraps, when there's big money to be made. I've been right where you are years back, and I can honestly say it's easier to sell a $1500/month package than a $400 package. Plus you don't deal with the tire kickers, and clients that never seem to be happy with anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Matt Lee View Post

      Yeah, maybe your method is SEO, but that doesn't generate traffic right away right?
      Here is the thing with SEO. You know how to do it, or you don't. Matt... to answer that question specifically YES, you can pretty much get solid traffic in ONE WEEKS time tops. and that is on a brand new site. Give anyone that knows what they are doing, a site that has some age on it, and we are talking days and in some cases HOURS.

      The absolute BIGGEST misconception of SEO is it takes time. Sure, it takes time if you have no clue what you are doing. No "REAL" SEO specialist is going to go in and target your site for 3 keywords... and take 3 to 6 months to see results. THIS very article will be somewhere on Google by the afternoon of the 12th of October, as in LATER TODAY.

      Gone are the days that it took Google months to go from section to section of its database and index new content. It is just short of instant at this point.

      I recently was doing some work on one of my sites and thru the course of A day made 3 changes to a page and ranked that page from page 3 to position 10 on page 1. A few days later it leveled off at position 5 of page 1.

      Those multiple changes that I made were based apon the result and actual listing of that page on Google thru the day. I wasn't second guessing and making changes, I made a change, a few hours later saw the result, made another change saw the result, made the last change and let it alone. ( I will admit the page is 10 years old and is a PR5 - so these kind of results are not that common ) But to make a change and see the results in 2 to 3 days is better than average, for most sites.

      After reading that, maybe some folks will understand why I get a bit steamed about the subject of SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        Aged domains!

        I post on a new (less than 1 year old blog) and it takes 1-3 days for Google to show it in the results. Usually, off the bat, I end up on page 1, #8 -10. If I don't do anything else, they settle on position 16-20.

        Even so, it's a heck of a lot faster than it was even 2 years ago.

        I keep dreaming of the day when you make a change, and Google shoots you back a message that lists all the things you can do to make it to #1... But only for me.

        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Here is the thing with SEO. You know how to do it, or you don't. Matt... to answer that question specifically YES, you can pretty much get solid traffic in ONE WEEKS time tops. and that is on a brand new site. Give anyone that knows what they are doing, a site that has some age on it, and we are talking days and in some cases HOURS.

        The absolute BIGGEST misconception of SEO is it takes time. Sure, it takes time if you have no clue what you are doing. No "REAL" SEO specialist is going to go in and target your site for 3 keywords... and take 3 to 6 months to see results. THIS very article will be somewhere on Google by the afternoon of the 12th of October, as in LATER TODAY.

        Gone are the days that it took Google months to go from section to section of its database and index new content. It is just short of instant at this point.

        I recently was doing some work on one of my sites and thru the course of A day made 3 changes to a page and ranked that page from page 3 to position 10 on page 1. A few days later it leveled off at position 5 of page 1.

        Those multiple changes that I made were based apon the result and actual listing of that page on Google thru the day. I wasn't second guessing and making changes, I made a change, a few hours later saw the result, made another change saw the result, made the last change and let it alone. ( I will admit the page is 10 years old and is a PR5 - so these kind of results are not that common ) But to make a change and see the results in 2 to 3 days is better than average, for most sites.

        After reading that, maybe some folks will understand why I get a bit steamed about the subject of SEO.
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    • Originally Posted by Matt Lee View Post

      As others have said. Your $400 price point is really low - even if you are outsourcing it. Of course this all depends on your industry too but I wouldn't charge anything less than $750 for any SEO search package.

      But you should stop thinking about "services" and start thinking about solutions. Business owners want new leads & customers - How are you going to get do that? Yeah, maybe your method is SEO, but that doesn't generate traffic right away right?

      I offer search & social packages, with and without paid advertising depending on their budget. I'm charging a substantial amount more- but their phone is ringing this week not 3-6 months down the road. That statement alone is very powerful, and has helped me close more new deals that I can remember.

      When i do get pushback on my rates- i simply say:

      Even if I charged $20,000 per month but I generate you $100,000, you'd cut me a check every month like clockwork.

      Just think, there's so many people competing for table scraps, when there's big money to be made. I've been right where you are years back, and I can honestly say it's easier to sell a $1500/month package than a $400 package. Plus you don't deal with the tire kickers, and clients that never seem to be happy with anything.

      Hey Matt, I like your mentality man... Ultimately in this business... you're trading dollars for dollars... and if your client isn't making more dollars with your services, then obviously you're in the hole...

      I'm unfortunately new to posting in this forum, but I'll say that I'm not new to this forum lol..

      Would you mind me asking what kind of SMM services you offer to your client? Youtube? Facebook? IG? haha

      Thanks for your time, ahead of time.
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