[Alan Mater]

Hi everyone,

Maybe I'm not the only one thinking this, and after people start reading this, I KNOW I won't be. I just realized that there is a major flaw in the PIPS system. Maybe Stone has a good reason for this. Well, I know he does. Right now it is to make himself more money!

You see, I just realized that Stone is making money off of our efforts. That's obvious enough. But, we could be getting at least one additional stream of income, if not more, from the people we refer to PIPS.

I feel like I'm getting ripped off. No offense to Stone in any way. But, the system could be built better to provide us more streams of income for the same amount of work. Let me explain...

Every new member is required to join GetResponse. Now, who is making money from all of those newly created GetResponse accounts? It's not the sponsor that's for sure. Stone gets every single one.

There are other programs promoted throughout the 30 Days Training Guide that we could be getting commissions from as well.

Other systems are setup this way. My question is this... Why is PIPS setup so that Stone makes money off of OUR efforts? We should be getting paid for those GetResponse accounts, not him.

I would really like to hear an answer from Stone. I'm sure there is a way to design the system for us to imput our GetResponse ID and earn commissions when our affiliates sign up through their back office.

This is something that I feel should be implemented into the system. We could all benefit from it. This would make the system better.

Regards,

Alan

[Jeff Schuman]

Hi Alan,

I respectfully disagree with you and here is why. Stone charges nothing for setting up the sites, this forum, Pat's salary, or the "30 Days" training. As the creator of PIPS his income comes from enrolling new affiliates just like we all do, and on the programs in "30 Days".

His only real guaranteed income stream is GetResponse and I do not have a problem with that. I do not necessarily like the co-op or some of the program in "30 Days" therefore I do not participate in them.

Anyone of us could set up a program like PIPS and do just what Stone has done, but in reality it is a lot of work. Years ago I tried setting up something called Ezine-In-A-Box built around using GetResponse myself, and the amount of work and money to get a program like PIPS off the ground helped me change my mind.

Anyway I just wanted to give my opinion. Good post. Thanks for making it. It will be interesting to see other feedback.

[jroh]

Good arguments for both sides. I'm still new to a lot of this, but I see how a lot of people make the money online...be an affiliate of everything.

I realized the potential as well for the Get Response account; I signed up as an affiliate and promote it any chance I get at my blog. When I blog about setting up a campaign, or how important it is to get subscribers then link to Get Response with my affiliate ID. I won't get all those new subs that sign up on my PIPS, but there are other opportunities.

What PIPS has taught me is to look for affiliate promotions wherever I can find them. If I subscribe to a service, then I should become an affiliate and promote it as well. After all, if I like the service and use it, why shouldn't I tell others about it as well?

[Patrician]

Well, Jeff said it pretty well. Stone puts out a lot of money to run this program. He gives away a lot of things for free - and he could charge for much more, for example to build the sites, and everything else, but he doesn't.

Add to the list that Jeff said about for instance things like the $25 rebate that comes right out of his pocket and is to encourage YOUR sale, and is paid to YOUR referrals and YOU get the commissions, not Stone.

There are sales he could be making with some domains that he has instead put rotators on so that the sale goes to random members.

There are many more costs that he has - how about like the applications for the form site that takes the orders, and the helpdesk? These have monthly costs to run.

How about the programming he paid for to create the sales page and the copywriting to create the free newsletters? Where did that money come from? How about when he has banners and graphics designed?

Unlike some programs where you can get xy and z for free but then you are REQUIRED to do upgrades etc in order to fully utilize the system, any recommendations he makes in the training are optional.

So in a sense some people really do get everything without giving him a cent in return.

Try to imagine what it would be like if you had to pay for everything that is being done FOR YOU.

You can add whatever programs you want to your website including Implix (Getresponse) or any other program you want to.

You can even be really mean to Stone and tell your downline to buy everything from you so that you make sure that Stone gets nothing for his efforts.

However, when PIPS goes out of business because Stone can't make any RETURN ON HIS INVESTMENT, well then we will all be on our own.

There is also the issue of how it is HIS reputation that has a lot to do with you making a sale - believe me that has to be worth something. We are all in this to make money and there would be no reason to be doing it for anyone, including Stone if no money could be made.

(final comments edited out by author)

[Jeff Casmer]

Hi Pat,

Just a clarification....I believe the other domains Stone has doesnt refer people to random links for just any PIPS members but I believe just for the co-op members if I am not mistaken...????

Take care
Jeff

[Patrician]

No actually, Jeff I think there are a couple different domain rotations I have seen. He has a couple new domain names and I am almost positive at one time he had one posted in an announcement here about what PIPS is that was not the co-op domain.

[profitgenie]

I'm new to pips and i was under the impression that when you upgrade your site to a mega site, that your own get response link is advertised??

Is that not true. I think the pips system is fantastic either way but would like to know.

[Patrician]

Yes, if you are an Implix affiliate.

Anyone can join any program and add it to their site.

[Alan Mater]

Well, I was expecting some sharp criticism from you Pat, but appears you've completely misunderstood my motives. I will clarify.

I have seen other systems that provide their affiliates an income stream with the autoresponder, usually the rival to GetResponse. I won't name it here because I don't think I'm allowed. All I was thinking, and again it's only my opinion, is that it would be nice to be able to get paid that commission when OUR members upgrade their autoresponder.

Here's something you need to keep in mind as well. Stone actively promotes PIPS just like the rest of us. He is consistently the leader in many of the programs. I don't think it would hurt him any to give us the opportunity to earn more for OUR efforts.

I wasn't bashing Stone in any way by starting this thread. In fact, I have a lot of respect for him and for creating this system. I know the amount of work that Stone puts into this program, and his dedication to continue to improve it for us.

This thread was only a suggestion to improve the system. The members we recruit are pretty much required to upgrade GetResponse, otherwise it's worthless with the limit they place on free accounts. With the amount of effort and work that a lot of members do to get new members into PIPS, I don't see what would be wrong about them getting the commission for that.

However, as Jeff S. pointed out, that is Stone's only guaranteed commission from our efforts. And, for the fact he sets this up for free, I can understand why the system is setup this way.

But, as I stated earlier, Stone is actively promoting the system as well. Seems like it evens out to some extent.

I guess we can agree to disagree, but that's the whole point of having a forum. To be able to share opinions, without being criticized.

No, I'm not trying to be "greedy" in any way, shape or form. I only used the word "flaw" to bring attention to this thread. Apparently it worked. I just saw other systems doing things this way, and I wondered why PIPS didn't as well. That's all. I guess I found out why, with a little more said than needed.

I would really like to hear other points of view on this. No one has to agree with me on this. It's just something I've been thinking. Overall I love PIPS, and I have no reason to bash it or Stone for creating it.

I'm looking out for the best interest of ALL PIPS members. They could benefit from something like this.

Regards,

Alan

[Patrician]

Alan, just as you had no offense intended so did I. Just stating my opinion like you.

In my opinion, what Stone does with his own PIPS site is not relevant. What he earns from his own efforts as an affiliate are not the same as what he earns as the owner of this program.

Otherwise then we would also be responsible to share in the costs of the administration of the 'mother ship', all things being equal.

Still friends?

p.s. I edited out my final two paragraphs that I guess you found objectionable.

[Alan Mater]

Of course we're still friends, Pat.

"In my opinion, what Stone does with his own PIPS site is not relevant. What he earns from his own efforts as an affiliate are not the same as what he earns as the owner of this program."

I totally agree with you on that statement, Pat. So my question still remains. Why aren't the members earning commissions on say, the autoresponder upgrades, through the system? Those upgrades are being generated by members who were referred to PIPS by other PIPS members, not Stone.

Stone is earning money through his efforts of promoting his websites, etc. But, he is also earning money through every single member of PIPS, through the system, for every upgrade, regardless if he referred that member to PIPS or not.

I would rather see PIPS members getting paid for those upgrades because it is their efforts that are producing the upgrades. It would be an additional income stream for the same amount of work for getting that person to join PIPS.

Alan

[Marty23]

Hi Alan,

Just my take on the situation - I feel comfortable about Stone earning on our autoresponder upgrades especially when you consider the value of his pre-written newsletters which we get for free.

Cheers
Marty

[Patrician]

I totally agree with you on that statement, Pat. So my question still remains. Why aren't the members earning commissions on say, the autoresponder upgrades, through the system? Those upgrades are being generated by members who were referred to PIPS by other PIPS members, not Stone.

LOL your question is still the same and my answer is still the same. Let me try a different approach.

Why Stone is entitled to get the Getresponse commission and etc.

Because Stone has already assumed and absorbed the costs of putting your members into his system, he has a right, and it is only logical that he should receive something for building their site and administering the program.

Because technically when they are in the training, they are on Stone's domain, pluginprofitsite.com, as such he has the right to earn the commissions.

You know at the end of the day, he even has a right if he wanted to REQUIRE that they upgrade? He is a lot nicer about it than almost any other program I have ever seen.

I think this is one of those agree to disagree situations, Alan, because it is still not making sense to either of us how the other one can think the way they do.

.... it takes all kinds. LOL. Have a nice day.

[Alan Mater]

You're right, Pat. We can agree to disagree. Both sides are correct, and there is no right or wrong answer.

Everything you're saying makes perfect sense. I understand why it's setup this way. Stone has the right to do whatever he wants, since it is in fact his program.

If you just look at it from my point of view, seeing how the system can be improved upon, and how more income streams could be added to benefit everyone.

Such is probably a lost cause, though. Can't say I didn't try.

You have a good day too

[Matt Helphrey]

I know how hard it is to get a signup in PIPS and how frustrating it is that the only money we are guaranteed is the $10 a month commission from H4P. It is my opinion that I would love to see PIPS have another form of automated income that people are required to pay so we can earn more.

However, I understand that PIPS is Stones program and that he can do whatever he wants to make money and I would do the same.

The way I see PIPS is as an introduction training program that newbies can implement to make some money but should be considered MORE as a learning tool to go out there and create your own sales funnel.

Once you see how others are having success in marketing online, you too can implement similar schemes and be the Stone Evans of your own program.

Best,
Matt

[Stephen Meyer]

Originally Posted by Matt Helphrey

Once you see how others are having success in marketing online, you too can implement similar schemes and be the Stone Evans of your own program.

Best,
Matt

That is a very good point. Imitate those who are successful. I have chosen 4 people who I think are the top online marketers, each using their own schemes, and I try to copy their formula. Stone Evans is one of those I follow. There are many types of affiliate marketing but in our world Stone Evans is the best. You can see his mindset, tone, and deliberate actions in everything he does. Unlike me where i am concerned with racing RC cars, flying RC planes, moving to Vegas next year,fishing and other stuff, Stone is very set in his sincerity and direction. He is a good one to imitate.

Steve

[Robbi Rice]

After reading both points I agree with both. On one hand it is Stone's site and he is putting a lot of money into it. On the other hand I agree with Alan because in my case the only income I can make from PIPS is the hosting commission. I cannot afford for SU,Empowerism or SFI. The new income stream the Survey it is not on our site and to get it there I will have to pay someone to put it in. So I too would like another source that I don't have to put money into. Not to be greedy but to make some money so I can upgrade to the other programs.

[Patrician]

Robbi - You can still have MPS on your sales page. Log in to your profile in the PIPS member center and put in your ClickBank ID to the MPS field.

[Robbi Rice]

Thanks Pat I didn't know that. I thought I read on the forum that you had to do it yourself or have someone do it for you. Glad to know I can add it in.




www.robbirice.com

[Patrician]

Yes - for the sales page, your profile is all you need. If you had the graphics on your site already then this would also update the site.

By the way if you have not done any custom design to your site, I can give you the most recent version that has MPS included.

Just write to me at the helpdesk and give me your domain, hosting account username and password.

P.S. As a free member of SFI you can also make money on direct sales of any of their products and services. They have a link for you for all of them and sales pages.

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Patrician

P.S. As a free member of SFI you can also make money on direct sales of any of their products and services. They have a link for you for all of them and sales pages.

Great point. I think a lot of people miss this and think the only way to make money is to upgrade and promote the business opportunity side of SFI. However, it's also the easiest. They're some great products that SFI has to offer, though.

Alan

[tgr]

I am a "newbie" at this whole thing. From my point of view I think the help I received is great. I am happy that I have the opportunity to learn from one of the best. If anyone else can give me some pointers I really would appreciate it. I am batting .000 for my efforts. Thanks for all good info so far.

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by tgr

I am a "newbie" at this whole thing. From my point of view I think the help I received is great. I am happy that I have the opportunity to learn from one of the best. If anyone else can give me some pointers I really would appreciate it. I am batting .000 for my efforts. Thanks for all good info so far.

Hi tgr,

First of all, welcome to the forum! You will find so much useful information here. My advice is to learn as much as you can. Read the different threads in this forum, absorb the information, and then take action on what you have learned.

The areas I would focus on are article marketing, SEO (they both go hand-in-hand), and blogging. Learn how to do them well, and you will do great.

Regards,

Alan

[Lian]

This is argument (AR) is valid on both sides. I never thought of this...lol

[Alan Mater]

Thanks for the opinions everyone. Everyone has very valid points.

[luckystar]

Hello everybody,

This is my best thread so far.


Alan it is a great discovery without some vital considerations.
Pat, you are a force to reckon with in business. i like you prompt and adequate response.

The fact is that Stone should look for other programs to include which will not cost much monthly payment from PIP members. I mean programs other than SU, Empowerism.

Everybody will agree with me that this program do not yield immediately and most of us are looking a regular home based business income, so any monthly payment will be disastrous.

I have suspended my SU, Empowerism account after 3 months of subscribing. What a loss.

kudos to stone. the program is reliable

[Graham Maddison]

Hi Alan,

I've not been very active for a while (usual thing - day job) and I have just been reading through this thread with interest. I have to say I do tend to agree with you in as much as it "would be nice" if Stone at some point decided to share some of the bounty when new pips members sign up through our efforts.
However, I would never want to imply that Stone was creaming it from our efforts due to the mere fact, that had it not been for Stone, I doubt if I would have ever ventured into this wonderful world of affiliate marketing and met all you wonderful people.. After all, he has given me all the tools I need to be successful. It is now up to me to use those tools and BE SUCCESSFUL.
I think the free website which you can use to advertise anything without restriction and the free newsletter and the advice in the 30 day tutorial and this forum, more than justify what Stone earns through my efforts. Yes as I said "it would be nice" to get that little bit extra as a result of my efforts in promoting PIPS, but I personally feel I owe Stone for what he has provided me with.
As time goes on, I will no doubt branch out into other areas having gained the experience with PIPS. It is then that I expect to be really successful....but all thanks to Stone....and my own efforts of course.

Alan I am not knocking you for your views, as I said, I agree with you to some extent, I just have my own views on the subject.

Graham

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Graham Maddison

Hi Alan,

I've not been very active for a while (usual thing - day job) and I have just been reading through this thread with interest. I have to say I do tend to agree with you in as much as it "would be nice" if Stone at some point decided to share some of the bounty when new pips members sign up through our efforts.
However, I would never want to imply that Stone was creaming it from our efforts due to the mere fact, that had it not been for Stone, I doubt if I would have ever ventured into this wonderful world of affiliate marketing and met all you wonderful people.. After all, he has given me all the tools I need to be successful. It is now up to me to use those tools and BE SUCCESSFUL.
I think the free website which you can use to advertise anything without restriction and the free newsletter and the advice in the 30 day tutorial and this forum, more than justify what Stone earns through my efforts. Yes as I said "it would be nice" to get that little bit extra as a result of my efforts in promoting PIPS, but I personally feel I owe Stone for what he has provided me with.
As time goes on, I will no doubt branch out into other areas having gained the experience with PIPS. It is then that I expect to be really successful....but all thanks to Stone....and my own efforts of course.

Alan I am not knocking you for your views, as I said, I agree with you to some extent, I just have my own views on the subject.

Graham

No hard feelings, Graham

I think PIPS is a wonderful system in that it was what brought me into the wonderful world of internet marketing as well. Had I not ever saw the PIPS sales page, well, you can figure that one out

I will in no doubt venture off as well, as many will and are starting to now. Stone has given wonderful value and training in the program. For that I commend him.

As with any system, it can be improved upon, and I mean that in general. As new members keep joining every day, and with the way the economy is right now, I think it's more important than ever to have a system that they can benefit from quickly. Meaning, cash in the pocket from the start.

I personally feel that would help drive and motivate more new members, as many I have seen just don't have the drive. It's a sad thing, really. All the tools are in place, they just have to use them. And, I think with more "guaranteed income" from the start, it would show "newbies" that, hey, I really can make money from this. Instead of, "why am I not seeing any results?"

Of course, as you said, Graham, it's only our efforts that we will ever see results. To the "newbies" out there, take heed in that statement. You MUST work to be successful in this business. Even if it is $10 at a time.

But, as some have pointed out, it can get frustrating.

I don't think Stone is "creaming" it with our efforts. As any businessman would do, and probably me included, would have a system to profit from, even through the efforts of others.

But along with that I think there comes a time when you have to take a look at the overall system and see where it can be improved upon, looking out for the members as a whole. Making it easier for new members to profit as well. That extra $ could then be used to upgrade or even sign up with one of the other programs then.

That's my whole take on it. Okay, that was a long reply lol

Alan

[Patrician]

LOL, well Alan - sounds good but you leave out one important element: where would Stone make a return on his investment, or God forbid a profit?

I'll tell you it has been bouncing around for a while now, that he might start charging for the site build - or a membership fee. If he did, then I guess he could let go of some of the optional things he recommends like the Getresponse upgrade.

So that could be the other side of the coin. The result? I don't know maybe fewer tire kickers and people looking to get rich quick overnight with no effort. Maybe there would be less sales - who knows...

Really when I talk to prospects I encourage them to do surveys, sell ClickBank products, to market the individual core programs/products/servics, and to add programs to the site.

There is something to it that people might venture to buy one program, or one product or service more easily than to get involved with a whole business. So this might help generate some quick income while building momentum.

There are always options and things you can do to stand out from the crowd and accelerate your success.

Don't let any obstacle stand in your way. If way A and B are shut, take way C - if that is shut, create another way. Be the first...

[Stephen Meyer]

Would we get a part of the site build fee

[Alan Mater]

Pat, you have very good points.

To answer your question: Stone is profiting, very well, by promoting PIPS himself, completely on autopilot. After all, that's what the system was designed to do.

Now now Stephen, we don't want to get "greedy" lol. As with what I'm suggesting, and every other aspect of PIPS, we will have to leave that up to Stone.

Here's something interesting. What I'm seeing with my subscribers, and other people may be experiencing this as well, is that many are signing up for the individual programs, not the whole package. Wonder why this is?

[Stephen Meyer]

Because some of the programs are free and others are not. Some are also cheaper.

Originally Posted by Alan Mater

Pat, you have very good points.

To answer your question: Stone is profiting, very well, by promoting PIPS himself, completely on autopilot. After all, that's what the system was designed to do.

Now now Stephen, we don't want to get "greedy" lol. As with what I'm suggesting, and every other aspect of PIPS, we will have to leave that up to Stone.

Here's something interesting. What I'm seeing with my subscribers, and other people may be experiencing this as well, is that many are signing up for the individual programs, not the whole package. Wonder why this is?

[Alan Mater]

Well, I already knew the answer. LOL.

Which leads me back to the main point that if they had more incentives to sign up for the whole package, then more would.

I guess us as marketers will just have to be more creative in how we market it.

[Stephen Meyer]

No they wouldn't, most people are just tire kickers and have no intention of signing up for everything. One of the reasons I would never purchase free signups from anyone.

On another note, most sponsors do not recommend newbies signup for everything and for good reason. Most people do not have the money to spend right off the bat. Most recommend that new people sign up for the paid programs as they see progress. They get a few free signups under them it is time to upgrade, etc.. They start making a few bucks it would be time to sign up for Success university, you get the idea. This is for the serious prospects.

As far as incentives they already have a ton of them, $25.00 is the first thing that comes to mind and then there are the bonuses. People have to have the want/need or nothing is going to make it happen.

[Patrician]

No clue but I would assume yes.

Originally Posted by Stephen Meyer

Would we get a part of the site build fee

[Patrician]

Again Alan, Stone's business as an affiliate is not related at all to his owning this program.

If you use that logic then all affiliates should share in the cost of administering the program - that is all operating costs and fees that are incurred including my salary, hosting for the top domain, helpdesk and formsite fees, programming, copywriting, graphics design, rebates, and etc. -

Read my post above about why people are signing up for one program as opposed to starting a business. I guess my inference wasn't clear:

It's less responsibility and in their minds less of a gamble.

Originally Posted by Alan Mater

Pat, you have very good points.

To answer your question: Stone is profiting, very well, by promoting PIPS himself, completely on autopilot. After all, that's what the system was designed to do.

Now now Stephen, we don't want to get "greedy" lol. As with what I'm suggesting, and every other aspect of PIPS, we will have to leave that up to Stone.

Here's something interesting. What I'm seeing with my subscribers, and other people may be experiencing this as well, is that many are signing up for the individual programs, not the whole package. Wonder why this is?

[Patrician]

Originally Posted by Alan Mater

You mean the $25 you get when you make 500+ posts? Or is there another $25 incentive I'm not aware of?

Again, as I mentioned in my first post, there is a $25 REBATE offer that comes right out of Stone's pocket for anyone who signs up - this essentially covers their first month of hosting so it is risk free. (and since Host4Profit also has a 10 day money back guarantee) they may walk with $25 profit after trying it for 10 days.

Add to the list that Jeff said about for instance things like the $25 rebate that comes right out of his pocket and is to encourage YOUR sale, and is paid to YOUR referrals and YOU get the commissions, not Stone.

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Again, as I mentioned in my first post, there is a $25 REBATE offer that comes right out of Stone's pocket for anyone who signs up - this essentially covers their first month of hosting so it is risk free. (and since Host4Profit also has a 10 day money back guarantee) they may walk with $25 profit after trying it for 10 days.

Can you point me to where that offer is advertised? I'm not seeing it. Not that I don't believe you, I just want to know if I'm not seeing something that is there.

Plus, I could use that as an incentive for my subscribers.

Thanks!

[Patrician]

http://www.pluginprofitsite.com/instantrebate/

So in case it's not clear, that is probably 1 or 2 Getresponse commissions right there - right back into the system on YOUR behalf.

Originally Posted by Alan Mater

Can you point me to where that offer is advertised? I'm not seeing it. Not that I don't believe you, I just want to know if I'm not seeing something that is there.

Plus, I could use that as an incentive for my subscribers.

Thanks!

[Alan Mater]

Just so I understand this offer, is that something that Stone provides when he sets up the website? I see it refers to a P.S. from an initial contact, assuming that's the email that is sent containing the domain details.

[Patrician]

We don't send the domain details, Host4Profit does. Go through a test sign up and see if you can find it. I can spend an hour looking through the sales page to find something and won't find it (and don't have time today) (smile)

While I do the entire set up process myself, I do not know what all autoresponder messages he has set to go at various junctures.

I really think it is on the sales page someplace because so many of the rebate claims are not even accompanied by an application (are bogus).

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Patrician

We don't send the domain details, Host4Profit does. Go through a test sign up and see if you can find it. I can spend an hour looking through the sales page to find something and won't find it (and don't have time today) (smile)

While I do the entire set up process myself, I do not know what all autoresponder messages he has set to go at various junctures.

I really think it is on the sales page someplace because so many of the rebate claims are not even accompanied by an application (are bogus).

Okay, I'll take a closer look. Thanks.

[Alan Mater]

Here is what is stated on the page you sent me, Pat.

"As described in the P.S. of our initial contact, I'll give you a $25.00 instant rebate as a reward for your decisiveness to sign up for the Plug-In Profit Site within 24 hours of first signing up to my free mini-course."

So, does that mean they have to sign up for the free mini-course in order to qualify for the rebate?

I couldn't find anything on the sales page about it.

[Patrician]

No, IMHO there would not be an 'initial contract' for a free newsletter.

So again, try signing up from your own sales page and look at the stuff that is sent back - just put 'test' in every field so I don't waste time researching it please.

[BostonBoy]

I'm about as new as it gets, and so far I'm impressed enough with Ston'e program, as compared to the many other things I've tried, to feel he deserves what he makes off of me. That's not to say I'm not scared! I am only on day 8 and I've followed the program to a tee. Since I've followed all of Stone's advice, that means I've already invested almost $1000 and some of those costs are large and recurring monthly. Since it's all on credit cards I can hardly pay now, this gives me great incentive to work hard and believe. But I've read so much on this forum that suggest other things have to be tried also, but I don't know how much more time I can squeeze in, never mind money. It's very confusing at first, and my brain just won't absorb adding any more stuff. I've been so into this program that I haven't even had time to explore the programs at Success U., Empowerism, etc. Does anyone else feel like I do? I really need to at least cover the monthly expenses as recommended by Stone, and I'm sure at some time it will be necessary to buy more names. I need hope!

This is my first post and looking forward to getting to know all of you.

Warm Regards,

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by BostonBoy

I'm about as new as it gets, and so far I'm impressed enough with Ston'e program, as compared to the many other things I've tried, to feel he deserves what he makes off of me. That's not to say I'm not scared! I am only on day 8 and I've followed the program to a tee. Since I've followed all of Stone's advice, that means I've already invested almost $1000 and some of those costs are large and recurring monthly. Since it's all on credit cards I can hardly pay now, this gives me great incentive to work hard and believe. But I've read so much on this forum that suggest other things have to be tried also, but I don't know how much more time I can squeeze in, never mind money. It's very confusing at first, and my brain just won't absorb adding any more stuff. I've been so into this program that I haven't even had time to explore the programs at Success U., Empowerism, etc. Does anyone else feel like I do? I really need to at least cover the monthly expenses as recommended by Stone, and I'm sure at some time it will be necessary to buy more names. I need hope!

This is my first post and looking forward to getting to know all of you.

Warm Regards,

Welcome aboard! It is best to set a budget for yourself and not pay for any services or upgrade in any programs unless you can afford it. This is a great place to learn from others. Most of the recommendations are not required at all. You've invested a lot of money already. Now, you need to invest your time to build your business. You, like many others, have learned this the hard way.

Take everything at your own pace. It's easy to get overwhelmed with so much information being thrown at you. I'm sure everyone felt like you do when they first started, me included. Seek help and guidance from us here in the forum. There is never such a thing as a dumb question. You will learn a lot here. Keep asking questions.

There are many free ways to market your business. In my opinion, they are better than paid methods. Learn SEO, article marketing and blogging. This will help you to build a solid foundation for your business. Take the time to absorb what you learn, and more importantly, take action on it. You must apply what you learn, or the information is useless.

I wish you the best in your business,

Alan

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Patrician

No, IMHO there would not be an 'initial contract' for a free newsletter.

So again, try signing up from your own sales page and look at the stuff that is sent back - just put 'test' in every field so I don't waste time researching it please.

Pat, I signed myself up for the mini-course that is advertised on the sales page. The $25 rebate offer is offered for subscribers of that course. So to me, the only way you will see that offer is to sign up for the course. Otherwise, you wouldn't ever know it was being offered.

Hope that helps clear things up.

[Patrician]

Oh, well that explains all the bogus claims.

Ohhhhhhh - now I remember - yes - the criteria is that you fill out an application within 24 hours of your first visit to the site.

[BostonBoy]

Thank You Alan,
I greatly appreciate your advice. Stone's 30-day step program does make it seem that you won't be successful without doing all those things he recommends. What would I know!
Thanks again, sincerely

[Lian]

Originally Posted by BostonBoy

Thank You Alan,
I greatly appreciate your advice. Stone's 30-day step program does make it seem that you won't be successful without doing all those things he recommends. What would I know!
Thanks again, sincerely

I am a newbie and have gone through most of the 30-days program myself. Following the 30-days training surely can make a person successful; BUT with time. It is not necessary to do all that is in the 30-days program. SEO update, Adding Content to your site, Starting a blog, article marketing and posting them regularly are the best advices. If you would like to consider my advice, think ten times before making a purchase. Ask questions here and you will receive tons of answers.

Lian