[stone]

Members,

I was recently informed that Success University will be merging with a company called World Ventures at: Welcome to the WorldVentures Business Overview

This will fundamentally change Success University as we know it.

There will be no more $2 trial.

As I understand it, World Ventures/SU will require $299 + $49.95 recurring monthly to join. That fee structure is too high for new incoming PIPS members to face.

World Ventures looks like a great business opportunity to me and I expect that I will continue building a business with it, but not as part of the Plug-In Profit Site.

As I understand it, whatever team you have in Success University will be rolled into World Ventures.

I have also been informed that for many people whatever you were earning from SU will increase once this merger is official due to differences in the World Ventures compensation plan.

I do not yet know exactly when this change will officially take place. I have heard that it may be as early as May 1.

If you are a member of Success University, I'm sure you will hear more about the upcoming changes soon.

I had previously planned and promised to keep Success University as part of the Plug-In Profit Site, but with this merger the changes will be so significant that this will not be in the best interest of the Plug-In Profit Site and our members. I hope you understand this.

That said, the Plug-In Profit Site is a system designed to help our members earn 6 streams of income and I have selected a replacement program for the Plug-In Profit Site which is Lawn Chair Millionaire.

Your Plug-In Profit Site affiliate link and all Plug-In Profit Site training materials have been updated to reflect this change.

As I've discussed in the Plug-In Profit Site training, I'm always testing new programs and Lawn Chair Millionaire is one that has performed the best for me and fits the Plug-In Profit Site business model. It sells very well.

If you would like to learn more about Lawn Chair Millionaire, you can visit your Plug-In Profit Site affiliate link.

If you would like to add the Lawn Chair Millionaire income stream to your PLug-In Profit Site affiliate link so you get credit for your referrals, you can login and add your ID here: http://www.pluginprofitsite.com/account

I've tried to make this transition as smooth as possible for all involved, but there may be a few hiccups in the early days.

If you notice anything that isn't working optimally or if you have any questions or concerns, please post them here.

Thank you for your support!

Sincerely,

Stone Evans

[jeremyhenderson]

Stone,

Thanks for the heads up. I agree with your decision. In fact I just wrote an article myself about the Success University World Ventures merger and describe why I will no longer promote SU as a business opportunity.

If you are an internet marketer, I highly encourage you to look at all the facts before you stay or go with Success University. Read Stone's article above and click on my link above to get more info.

Stone, thanks for all you do for the internet marketing community and all the value you add to others' lives.

Helping You Help Others,

Jeremy Henderson

[BIll S]

Stone, I trust and respect you decision on
removing SU from the Plug-in-Profit-Site.
I guess I now need to read up on Lawn
Chair Millionaire.

Thanks a million,

[Asher]

Hi Stone,

This is truly, truly shocking. And it seems that this will
be official.

Unfortunately, I will have to move. I LOVED Success
University's product and I promoted it with a passion
and even paid for some work to be done specifically
for Success University.

Now it's all going to the dumps.

Nevertheless, thanks for bringing this up.

Asher

[coachanton]

Totally respect Stone's opinion on anything to do with Internet Marketing....

I love/d Success University for what they stand for- but can't help feel sorry and anger for ALL the countries not on the "safe list" which will lose their businesses.

This will be announced on May 1st...

I hate to say it...but be prepared for a backlash folks

[Asher]

I'm really quite upset as well... Success University has been
rewarding it's ambassadors with travel opportunities. Did
they let "fun" get into their heads and decided to turn around
totally?

I don't know the details but this is truly and surely something
which is going to upset tons of people.

I thought Success University and Matt Morris' dream was to
change the world and feed hungry children. Looks like it's
all @#IUFN(V$

Money and power has gotten into their heads.

Asher

[tplahav]

Hi Stone,
You are doing the right thing, however the fee is high, especially to those with a tight budget.

Did you ever received a check from them?

Tanny

[Asher]

Originally Posted by tplahav

Hi Stone,
You are doing the right thing, however the fee is high, especially to those with a tight budget.

Did you ever received a check from them?

Tanny

Hi Tanny,

The payment is through their cards - recently they went into
using Payoneer to pay their affiliates. They don't use checks
or at least - not the ones that I know of!

Asher

[hirohurl]

Hi Stone,

Okay, I understand your decision now I've read this thread.

[FrankFields]

Stone,

First, I believe you should have sent an email to all your downline to give us a heads up a few days before you made the change...Being a newbie, I just signed up 3 people in the last 4 days to Success University (my first 3 people) and told them how easy it was to promote using the PIPS URL.....If I have to go back and tell them what happened, they may bail out of all the programs they joined under me !!

In my opinion, you could have left Success University on the PIPS as an option only and let the cusomers decide for themself if they wanted to sign up...And you still could have added LCM ?? That way, it would not have had much affect on us trying our best to promote the PIPS...

You could have made us aware of the changes to Success University and still added LCM...

Sorry, I don't get the stradegy of removing S.U. and I don't like changes being made then tell us...Should tell us first...

Thanks,
Frank L. Fields

[Jeff Casmer]

Hi,

I have no issue at all with the decision as its a no-brainer wtih the new cost for the joining of the programs...

Take care
Jeff Casmer

[Patrician]

You can still promote SU from your own website or in anyway that you want to. It is simply not on the PIPS sales page as one of our 6 core programs. Many people will continue to promote SU on their own.

When you say give notice, we cannot control what Success University is doing MAY 1 - so this is a few days notice to what they are launching. We are not in control of Success University.

Originally Posted by FrankFields

Stone,

First, I believe you should have sent an email to all your downline to give us a heads up a few days before you made the change...Being a newbie, I just signed up 3 people in the last 4 days to Success University (my first 3 people) and told them how easy it was to promote using the PIPS URL.....If I have to go back and tell them what happened, they may bail out of all the programs they joined under me !!

In my opinion, you could have left Success University on the PIPS as an option only and let the cusomers decide for themself if they wanted to sign up...And you still could have added LCM ?? That way, it would not have had much affect on us trying our best to promote the PIPS...

You could have made us aware of the changes to Success University and still added LCM...

Sorry, I don't get the stradegy of removing S.U. and I don't like changes being made then tell us...Should tell us first...

Thanks,
Frank L. Fields

[Trent Brownrigg]

This decision is fine with me. I had already cancelled my SU membership a couple months ago and had no intentions of re-joining. Now I just need to figure out if I want to join LCM or not.

[Jason Fulton]

This is also fine with me, SU fees were just too high fir the Australian dollar

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Trent Brownrigg

This decision is fine with me. I had already cancelled my SU membership a couple months ago and had no intentions of re-joining. Now I just need to figure out if I want to join LCM or not.

That's exactly where I'm at right now. It all looks great, but I'm not sure If I want to jump on board yet.

I'm fine with the removal of SU. I canceled long ago as the retention rate was not good at all.

[Malcolm Tindle]

Hi Stone,

I totally respect your decision because I know is is done for all the best reasons. I have never been in SU and have a lot of sympathy for those members who have devoted time and effort to this.

regards,

Mal.

[carolyn77]

I have only been in PIPS for a little over a week. I dropped SU yesterday, I was in my 14 day trial. It will be hard for some people to join World Ventures because it is to high. I'm not for sure if I will join Lawn Chair Millionaire right at this time. I understand why Stone dropped it. So I will have to look around to find something to take its place.

[KathleenWalter]

Hi Stone,

I signed up with LCM but I don't see the Plug-In Profit Site training materials anywhere on my site. Is the affiliate link the 6 digit number they give you as your user name the PIPs affiliate link? What do I need to do to get this added?

Thanks,
Kathleen

[Patrician]

After you join you would add your ID to your PIPS account profile. This would automatically put it on the sales page.

Because it is an optional program it is not automatically added to the website when we set up your account (if you joined on the PIPS application).

As well joining from the training same as above. If you would like LCM added to your website you will need to do it yourself or have someone help you.

[KathleenWalter]

Originally Posted by Patrician

After you join you would add your ID to your PIPS account profile. This would automatically put it on the sales page.

Because it is an optional program it is not automatically added to the website when we set up your account (if you joined on the PIPS application).

As well joining from the training same as above. If you would like LCM added to your website you will need to do it yourself or have someone help you.

The PIPs Day 1 training guide says NOTE: Check all of your affiliate ID's in the list above to make sure they are correct. If you notice any that are not correct, all you need to do is visit this page here inside your Plug-In Profit Site member's area, update your ID's and your website will be updated INSTANTLY.

Stones post indicated that the Plug-In Profit Site affiliate link and all Plug-In Profit Site training materials have been updated to reflect this change.

I noticed that the LCM ID was already added to the PIPs acount profile so I hit update but didn't see anything. Is it that I had the website developed almost 4 weeks ago and would therefore be responsible for adding it myself or is there something else I need to do or may have missed?

[Patrician]

Sorry for the confusion, however I stand by what I said above.

The websites I just set up tonight do not have LCM on them. (unless I am missing it);

Therefore when Stone says websites, he must be referring to your sales page. OR

Maybe he forgot to add it, although I doubt that --

I know that the account profiles were updated to include LCM on the 27th along with the sales page/application.

Since LCM is optional I believe his current philosophy is not to add optional programs automatically to the websites, only to the sales page.

Even if/when the new websites do include LCM, it would not affect the older ones that were set up without it. (older = prior to 4/27/08)

If you would like LCM added to your website you will need to do it yourself or have someone help you.

[KathleenWalter]

Originally Posted by Patrician

Sorry for the confusion, however I stand by what I said above.

The websites I just set up tonight do not have LCM on them. (unless I am missing it);

Therefore when Stone says websites, he must be referring to your sales page. OR

Maybe he forgot to add it, although I doubt that --

I know that the account profiles were updated to include LCM on the 27th along with the sales page/application.

Since LCM is optional I believe his current philosophy is not to add optional programs automatically to the websites, only to the sales page.

Even if/when the new websites do include LCM, it would not affect the older ones that were set up without it. (older = prior to 4/27/08)

If you would like LCM added to your website you will need to do it yourself or have someone help you.

That's fine. I just didn't want to do any redundant work. I would definitely be interested in any promotional material's Stone comes up with.

Thank you for responding so quickly at least I know I'm not the only one burning the late night oil.

[AdamHolland]

Originally Posted by FrankFields

Stone,

First, I believe you should have sent an email to all your downline to give us a heads up a few days before you made the change...Being a newbie, I just signed up 3 people in the last 4 days to Success University (my first 3 people) and told them how easy it was to promote using the PIPS URL.....If I have to go back and tell them what happened, they may bail out of all the programs they joined under me !!

In my opinion, you could have left Success University on the PIPS as an option only and let the cusomers decide for themself if they wanted to sign up...And you still could have added LCM ?? That way, it would not have had much affect on us trying our best to promote the PIPS...

You could have made us aware of the changes to Success University and still added LCM...

Sorry, I don't get the stradegy of removing S.U. and I don't like changes being made then tell us...Should tell us first...

Thanks,
Frank L. Fields

Dude - seriously! Look at your SU newsletter that you get every month. Stone is on the top of the list of 'enrolled premium students' almost every month! Do you think he had any control over this? Do you think he's losing some $$?

Imagine he waited another 3 weeks and then you have to tell your group of THIRTY PEOPLE that you can't promote it anymore! Better 3 than 30 man!

This is out of our hands. Period.

I just spent a TON of money on a new viral self help site to sponsor SU reps into my group on autopilot. $200 on viral inviting software, hundreds more on copywriting, graphics, the works...

It's basically a waste for me now... :-(


Adam

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by AdamHolland

I just spent a TON of money on a new viral self help site to sponsor SU reps into my group on autopilot. $200 on viral inviting software, hundreds more on copywriting, graphics, the works...

It's basically a waste for me now... :-(


Adam

Not really. As it's been said many times, you can still promote SU separate from PIPS. It appears that you've already been doing that, so just keep at it. If you're big-time into SU, why stop just because it's no longer part of PIPS? That wouldn't make much sense, especially when you spent that much money into building your SU downline.

[kodak]

Stone, the decision is O.K but you should have informed the PIPS owners before your decesion. You took the decesion as a dictator.

[wspers]

Thank you Stone. I chose to quickly cancel before my two week trial ended, and will be joining LCM.

Susan Gray,
WsperADream.com

[Alan Mater]

What's everyone's opinion of LCM? Is it worth giving it a go? Does it build your downline automatically like it says it does? And how much money can you make even without referring anyone?

[MBeshr]

Stone you are completely right in that decesion
i agree with you .


thanks
MBeshr

[LOTNET7]

Stone you have made it again! That is the right decision, when things are not in favor of the majority you look for good options. Lead we follow!

Thanks,

Charles

[branstyweb]

I don't have a problem with Stone's decision here, I looked at SU when it first came out and decided it was too expensive then, so never joined as part of PIPS.
I can however, understand some members dislike to it being dropped from PIPS, if they have been promoting it as part of the PIPS program only.
But as stated elsewhere, there is nothing to stop them continuing to promote it separately, after all, why get drop it if you are making money from it !!
I will not be joining lawnchair yet, as still waiting for SFI / Host4Profit to pay their way before joining anything else (Empowerism/Web Proserity or Lawnchair), but will watch with interest what others think about it before I decide which I join next as a pro member. Could have been soon but the new SFI payment system put paid to that, I had 1 EA and was recieving $18, got a 2nd just as the new payments came in and I still only get $18, so will need a couple more EA's before I upgrade oneof the others.

[Warzone]

I personally are not sure of this LCM program.
I looked at it awhile ago and it still has bad 'reviews'.
What I understand is you pay the admin fee plus monthly fee and the money pool for THAT day will be paid to you over 3 months. eg $80 money pool could be $40 first month,then $30, then $10. Then thats all you will get for 'doing nothing/no referrals'.
You will also have to pay for their debit card to receive these commissions.
So if you do not recruit, you will lose on the first 3 months then have no commissions after that.
I believe you get a downline but no earnings off them unless you personally recruited them.

I would like some positives about LCM because I am not sure how I can promote a program with such a bad name across the web with the pips program.

Thanks,
Steve.

[thaitom]

I do respect Stone's decision to have removed SU from his PIP site. However, what is a little murky to me is why he has replaced it with such a controversial site as Lawnchair Millionaire (LCM).

I've done some research, and roughly 80% (possibly more) of the reviews and opinion pieces I've read about LCM were very negative and outright devastating. Judging from these reviews, the site is a pure money pit solely designed to lure in desperate souls who need to make a quick buck. Besides the sign-up fees being rather steep (roughly $80), the site clearly misrepresents the money-making opportunity by misleading new members into believing that they can earn their share of the daily money pool EVERY SINGLE day. In fact, new members will only receive their share on the FIRST day of signing up, and even then this amount is only paid out in installments over a period of 3 MONTHS! Members will receive NO further money pool share apart from that first-day shell-out and provided they do not actively recruit new sign-ups.

You do the math: it costs roughly $80 to sign up ($50 set-up fee and $30 monthly membership. Thereafter, a monthly $30 membership fee will continue to be charged. For 3 months, that's roughly a $140 investment. So far, I have never seen the daily money pool rise above $70 - $80. That effectively means that you pay approximately twice as much to "get in" than you passively earn over a 3-months period.

That's not all. In order to even receive those funds, members are basically forced to order one of those darned debit cards, which, it goes without saying, not only costs a processing fee, but members are also charged the postage to have the darned thing sent to their address. It is also understood that there are monthly maintenance fees, as well as additional fees for every transaction.

And if you now think that this is the end of it, it is not. The site's so-called "money vault" contains nothing but additional programs to sign up for (admittedly on a voluntary basis), and of course you can again pay through the nose.

The only way of possibly making money is to aggressively promote the site and sponsor new members, but I am not even sure how much you could earn by doing that. What I am sure about, though, is that the misrepresented prospects of making tons of money can lure other people to join - so they can discover later to their delight that they have been had big time!

That cannot be good for your own reputation as an Internet marketer, which is built on trust, honesty and business ethics (or do I get something wrong here?). In that respect, I am not certain whether Stone's choice was a good one - unless he does not subscribe to the concepts of trust, honesty and business ethics, that is.

There are lots of articles sailing through cyber space that plainly describe LCM as a scam. One of the most outspoken ones can be accessed at http://www.teamworkmillionaire.com.au/ for your kind evaluation.

I have in the meantime suspected that the only millionaires slacking it out in their lawn chairs are the guys who have launched LCM in the first place, that they in fact dwell on them like feudal lords commanding an army of desperate peasants unwittingly providing them with their much-appreciated but dishonestly acquired funds to reign as "pyramid kings".

Stone, please kindly throw out that dodgy site and replace it with one that has a little more integrity. I understand your decision to discontinue SU, but your choice of replacement is rather incomprehensible. You also must think of your current and future affiliates. Many of them will forego signing up to LCM, and if they do, they'll soon become disenchanted, which in turn will reflect on you. I am sure there are other affiliate programs out there that are in the league of SU and also would integrate nicely with your 6-automated-income-streams concept. Why this dodgy site?

For my part, I certainly will not promote LCM in the light of things as they're standing now.

[mnyaga]

Hi All,

I agree that SU will become very expensive for the beginners and it was ok for Stone to remove it from PIPS.

However, I have tried doing some research on LCM and felt a bit hesitant. The whole thing looks like a "get-rich-quickly scam". The corporate page does not explain to you how things work, what they stand for (mission and values) and most importantly - how you will make money.

Stone's decision of replacing SU with LCM is a bit "funny". Just try comparing the corporate sites of the two companies and see if there is any comparison. SU was so professionally done.

Stone should have replaced SU with another company of that class!

[Alan Mater]

Thanks all for providing detailed information about LCM. I knew there was a reason why I was so hesitant in joining. That's a real shame to say the least that LCM costs so much, but SU was removed because of its cost. Seems almost hypocritical to me. This certainly can't be in favor of many of us if we were to promote LCM only to find potential prospects turned off by these facts.

All I can say is that if you don't feel you should join LCM, then don't. The other PIPS programs are very solid.

[Warzone]

Originally Posted by Alan Mater

Thanks all for providing detailed information about LCM. I knew there was a reason why I was so hesitant in joining. That's a real shame to say the least that LCM costs so much, but SU was removed because of its cost. Seems almost hypocritical to me. This certainly can't be in favor of many of us if we were to promote LCM only to find potential prospects turned off by these facts.

All I can say is that if you don't feel you should join LCM, then don't. The other PIPS programs are very solid.

Alan,
As i was saying in my previous post (which was perfectly enhanced by Thaitom), it was not the cost but what was offered by SU compared to LCM.
And I think a LOT of prospects will be turned off PIPS if they research all the programs offered and come across LCM. This is what I was stating in my previous message about advertising all the PIPS programs and as Thaitom said how can we honestly back this program to any prospects?

ps And as Mnyaga stated, nothing is explained at the front. ie how you get this 'daily' bonus, how much you 'earn doing nothing' and....who are they? I could not find it on the site.

Steve.

[jinmin]

Instead of replacing SU with LCM, I just hoping that it could be replaced by Global Domains International (GDI). Unlike LCM, GDI is a solid company and the cost of joining is very low.

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Warzone

Alan,
As i was saying in my previous post (which was perfectly enhanced by Thaitom), it was not the cost but what was offered by SU compared to LCM.
And I think a LOT of prospects will be turned off PIPS if they research all the programs offered and come across LCM. This is what I was stating in my previous message about advertising all the PIPS programs and as Thaitom said how can we honestly back this program to any prospects?

ps And as Mnyaga stated, nothing is explained at the front. ie how you get this 'daily' bonus, how much you 'earn doing nothing' and....who are they? I could not find it on the site.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

I see your point now. I guess it's possible that it could potentially turn away prospects from PIPS if they do some digging about LCM. Let's just hope that doesn't happen.

I agree with jinmin's statement of replacing SU for GDI rather than LCM as GDI IS a solid company and costs very little per month.

[Patrician]

I don't know either way whether LCM is good or not. However let me just add some of my comments - please believe they are impartial and I do not belong to either program.

The cost is still less than SU to join and maintain LCM.

quote Stone above: "As I understand it, World Ventures/SU will require $299 + $49.95 recurring monthly to join. That fee structure is too high for new incoming PIPS members to face."

vs. quote thaitom above: "it costs roughly $80 to sign up ($50 set-up fee and $30 monthly membership. Thereafter, a monthly $30 membership fee will continue to be charged. For 3 months, that's roughly a $140 investment."

So LCM is cheaper even than the original SU fee before their 'merger'.
----------------------

I have learned about 'negative reviews' in the past 5 years the following: (using PIPS as an example, and note that I see this from both sides of the fence and know the actual situations).

99% of those complaining are people who expected to get rich quick without work. They are people who didn't even give the program a chance to work. They signed up and basically quit the minute they found out there is a learning curve and that marketing requires time to build momentum and that one must sustain that momentum over the long term.

About half of what they say is not even true but something they have misconstrued and/or straight up lie about for dramatic affect or just because they are malicious - they feel like a fool because they actually thought there was some kind of magic and they blame the program when they find out there is no such thing.
----------------------

I wonder what the commissions are like on a $10 GDI sale? How do you think the ".ws" domain extension is doing? I never see any sites with them except for GDI affiliate sales pages. Never. We get many of them trying to sign up for PIPS but they apparently can't understand that we can't build a site on an affiliate page, but need an available domain name. After they are advised 99% I never hear from them again.

Stone has been asked to look at GDI a number of times as a possible fit for PIPS and they just don't fit. I particularly dislike their ads for 5 years now, between 'sex sells' with the ladies in bathing suits to the hypey swimming pools/mansions and sports cars. What a crock. Yeh we will all live the RichJerk lifestyle on whatever commissions you make from $10 sales.
----------------------

On this statement by thaitom above:

"The only way of possibly making money is to aggressively promote the site and sponsor new members, but I am not even sure how much you could earn by doing that"

I have come to the conclusion that this is true of any program - income testimonials that are great are a result of a focused, consistent effort, OVER TIME, and that none of this works unless someone is very aggressive in their marketing.

The only thing 'passive' about this income is the fact that the affiliate programs handle the sales and member service for your customers so you are not sitting there filling orders and answering emails/helpdesk tickets.

When you are selling something because it is relatively inexpensive, then that is where the 'multiple streams of income' is really relevant - Lots of little $10 commissions from different programs can add up OVER TIME.

Again, I am not saying LCM is good because I don't know. I do know that as far as SU, there is almost no other program we have had in over 3 years on the helpdesk that gets more complaints because people did not understand the $2 trial and that they needed to cancel if they don't want to be automatically upgraded. This involved that $100 one time fee for premium membership which makes the charge really scary when you didn't expect it. Long way between $2 and $150.

Then when the $49.95 becomes $57 or whatever without explanation and you find out they are going to send CDS for that extra money (without asking) and it is on you to cancel that.

The worst thing about the above was that they are going to hold your $150 refund until you receive and return those CDs - of course you are paying interest. In my mind they should have immediately refunded all but the $7. So you sit with $150 over a $7 service you did not even know about....

SU was a beautiful program that had so much promise and it had class other than these issues.

That's my 2 cents...

[Alan Mater]

Originally Posted by Patrician

I don't know either way whether LCM is good or not. However let me just add some of my comments - please believe they are impartial and I do not belong to either program.

The cost is still less than SU to join and maintain LCM.

quote Stone above: "As I understand it, World Ventures/SU will require $299 + $49.95 recurring monthly to join. That fee structure is too high for new incoming PIPS members to face."

vs. quote thaitom above: "it costs roughly $80 to sign up ($50 set-up fee and $30 monthly membership. Thereafter, a monthly $30 membership fee will continue to be charged. For 3 months, that's roughly a $140 investment."

So LCM is cheaper even than the original SU fee before their 'merger'.
----------------------

I have learned about 'negative reviews' in the past 5 years the following: (using PIPS as an example, and note that I see this from both sides of the fence and know the actual situations).

99% of those complaining are people who expected to get rich quick without work. They are people who didn't even give the program a chance to work. They signed up and basically quit the minute they found out there is a learning curve and that marketing requires time to build momentum and that one must sustain that momentum over the long term.

About half of what they say is not even true but something they have misconstrued and/or straight up lie about for dramatic affect or just because they are malicious - they feel like a fool because they actually thought there was some kind of magic and they blame the program when they find out there is no such thing.
----------------------

I wonder what the commissions are like on a $10 GDI sale? How do you think the ".ws" domain extension is doing? I never see any sites with them except for GDI affiliate sales pages. Never. We get many of them trying to sign up for PIPS but they apparently can't understand that we can't build a site on an affiliate page, but need an available domain name. After they are advised 99% I never hear from them again.

Stone has been asked to look at GDI a number of times as a possible fit for PIPS and they just don't fit. I particularly dislike their ads for 5 years now, between 'sex sells' with the ladies in bathing suits to the hypey swimming pools/mansions and sports cars. What a crock. Yeh we will all live the RichJerk lifestyle on whatever commissions you make from $10 sales.
----------------------

On this statement by thaitom above:

"The only way of possibly making money is to aggressively promote the site and sponsor new members, but I am not even sure how much you could earn by doing that"

I have come to the conclusion that this is true of any program - income testimonials that are great are a result of a focused, consistent effort, OVER TIME, and that none of this works unless someone is very aggressive in their marketing.

The only thing 'passive' about this income is the fact that the affiliate programs handle the sales and member service for your customers so you are not sitting there filling orders and answering emails/helpdesk tickets.

When you are selling something because it is relatively inexpensive, then that is where the 'multiple streams of income' is really relevant - Lots of little $10 commissions from different programs can add up OVER TIME.

Again, I am not saying LCM is good because I don't know. I do know that as far as SU, there is almost no other program we have had in over 3 years on the helpdesk that gets more complaints because people did not understand the $2 trial and that they needed to cancel if they don't want to be automatically upgraded. This involved that $100 one time fee for premium membership which makes the charge really scary when you didn't expect it. Long way between $2 and $150.

Then when the $49.95 becomes $57 or whatever without explanation and you find out they are going to send CDS for that extra money (without asking) and it is on you to cancel that.

The worst thing about the above was that they are going to hold your $150 refund until you receive and return those CDs - of course you are paying interest. In my mind they should have immediately refunded all but the $7. So you sit with $150 over a $7 service you did not even know about....

SU was a beautiful program that had so much promise and it had class other than these issues.

That's my 2 cents...

2 cents well noted. Thank you very much for your input, Pat. I agree with you on everything. LCM does cost less than SU, which I can see why it would be a better alternative. Also, many people do construe the facts when reviewing a site or opportunity to fill their own agenda. It shows that we shouldn't take everything as fact.

I'm inclined to get input from a member of LCM before I make the decision to join. That way I can get an "inside" and hopefully non-biased viewpoint.

"The only way of possibly making money is to aggressively promote the site and sponsor new members, but I am not even sure how much you could earn by doing that"

Very well said, thaitom. Most people fail because of this. I don't know how much you can make referring others to LCM, but I'm willing to bet that if you refer enough people, you can make some good money.

I just had a chat earlier today with a fellow PIPS member on Skype regarding this. He's working long hours on his business and not making anything. It all comes down to the fundamentals of learning the key steps in building your business the right way. You have to take the time to learn them and then properly implement them. This is the only way you're going to refer people into any business you have.

With that being said, I've had more and more people just sign up for the free programs rather than the whole PIPS package.

As far as GDI, I think the recurring income for each member is only $1, which is pretty low. But, over time that does add up. I will say that the .ws is foreign to many people which turns a lot of potential prospects off. The marketing side may be over-hyped a bit, but it seems that there's always more and more people joining. Hey, if it's not a good fit for PIPS, that's fine with me.

[Warzone]

I am not trying to be banned Patrician , but no one seems to get the point of trying to promote a program that has had such bad reviews ever since it started(Dec 2007 I think). I am not worried about the costs of SU, LCM or GDI.

PIPS is run by Stone Evans, you receive a website with training to teach you how to get started with internet home business. (I did not know what html meant, but now can change graphics, add scripts etc).

LCM is run by....not sure. You will lose money straight away in the first 3 months, then negative income after that unless you recruit prospects. The money you pay gives you access to a 'vault' which has programs that can turn $300 into $3000 within months but these are risky programs like share trading and gambling programs(which I believe is illegal in the US) and these will cost you another $100-200 to get access to them.

Promoting one program I believe is easy(especially for unethical people), but promoting PIPS with 6 good programs is a lot harder when(as I said before) prospects research all the programs offered and come across LCM's reviews.
If they do join PIPS under you and realize what is involved with LCM, what will/do you say?
I would love some feed back here, then I will shut up, join LCM and promote it with the PIPS program.

Thanks and sorry for the rave,
Steve.

[Patrician]

Steve, You are perfectly within your rights to NOT join LCM and NOT to have it on your domain. That is what 'optional' means - take it or leave it.

The same is true for your downline. Many people do not join one or more of the programs for whatever reason, no questions asked (although when they don't join free programs I sometimes question the logic).

So now the question is do you share your observations with your downline and discourage them from joining? Or do you make up some 'white lie' about why you do not participate?

I think that's what I would do is just say nothing - I am not sure what you are basing your statements on because why would Stone add a program that loses money? ...and again, if your only knowledge of the program is from reviews from unknown people, I would take them with a grain of salt - (however the other side of my head would say 'where there is smoke there is fire')...

...dunno.

[thaitom]

That LCM issue seems to have developed into a true battle, with more posters tending to favour the negative side of it - or at least they take a very cautious, balanced approach.

I do not believe that "99% of people" who have posted negative reviews about LCM on one site or another have done so because they were disappointed that they couldn't instantly become millionaires (as LCM brazenly implies). I think there are also a lot of honest and unbiased reviews out there. One just needs to read between the lines to sort the objective reviews from the "grudge-induced" ones.

Since his PIPS members' success is ultimately also Stone's (as he has mentioned over and over again), it might be a good idea to invite active PIPS members who actually have positive experiences to join the discussion and chip in their 2 cents worth of wisdom in order to alleviate the concerns of more skeptical members (like myself, I admit) who are concerned that LCM might be just a bottomless money pit.

The obvious shortcoming of LCM is that they disclose practically no information whatsoever how members can actually earn money and what the concrete compensation plan is. LCM also leaves prospective members completely in the dark about their controversial "Money Vault" that, as Steve has pointed out correctly, contains highly risky programs that potentially can cost you thousands of dollars without any return. A new member only has access to that vital information AFTER having signed up, and then it is still rather dubious. Somehow that seems unethical to me (and a lot of other contributors in this thread).

SU and all the rest of PIPS' time-honoured, integrated programs let prospective sign-ups have FULL and UNRESTRICTED access to their compensation plans, so prospects can educate themselves BEFORE making the decision whether to join or not. LCM is utterly wanting in that respect. That might work to have some poor souls part with their money, but it is definitely not an honest strategy. It lures in people by appealing to their greed. We, as active Internet marketers, however, want to know beforehand what we're buying into and for what we're investing not only money but also long hours of hard work.

So, are there any PIPS members (or independent marketers) out there who actually have something positive to say about LCM?

[FrankFields]

Wake up a smell the coffee........He just took WebProsperity away from us as well...Every time I feel good about promoting the PIPS Link, he changes it...The whole idea of getting involved with the PIPS is so we could save money promoting only one site, but he keeps changing the game.....Now if you want to keep Success University you have to promote it yourself, now if you want to keep WebProsperity, you have to promote it yourself.....Who's next ??

[Patrician]

Stone will make an announcement soon about his decision to remove WebProsperity and you will see that his reasoning is sound.

Trust me he knows what he is doing.

I know it is harder for new people to understand the logic and it seems like you do not realize that this is YOUR business and YOU can do whatever YOU want with YOUR site.

The sales page is one major component, yes it's true. But really YOUR business is YOUR website and as such you can have 100 programs on there if you want to.

You are going to promote both your sales page and your website no matter what is going on in this program. Again, I do realize that when you are new you don't have the confidence in Stone that we that have been here for years have.

Having said that he is only human. He does the very best that he can and really does have the best interests of this program at heart. I hope you will grow to trust his judgment...

(and I apologize for the confusion and aggravation this is causing) -

'there is nothing constant except change'

[Gunther69]

Well, Stone has been at this a lot longer than I have so I hope he can pick us a winner. It's hard to pick a program that we all are going to like. It does get a little aggravating when things change so much but I never felt strongly about Su or WP. I am not really surprised by this latest move.

And Pat is right, this is our business. We pick what we want to push. If a PIPS core program doesn't really trip your trigger than don't promote it. There are several non PIPS programs that I feel strongly about and I market my business accordingly. Maybe Stone will come up with a new one that I can market with enthusiasm.

So let's wait and see what master Yoda comes up with before we all freak out. Could be something really cool. JMO Tim.

[fossie09]

Lets leave it all up to Stone's wisdom to sort out .I am quite sure his concern with the current issues will prevail in the favor for all of us before to long. Let's all hang in there and just give the man a bit of space and time .I have great faith in Stone and I know what ever he comes up with will be in all our interests before to long.
Thanks Everyone ,
fossie09

[mantis29]

I am a newbie and I have to agree with you

[Gridd]

I have Had Pips for a while now and I am not schocked at the changes. It happens that sometimes its for the good, sometimes not. Will see either way.
G

[SuccessForFree]

Actually kind of funny, one of the reasons I didn't join PIPS the first time I saw it was because I didn't want to sign up for SU! Second time around, LCM was in, SU was out. Now, I'm on a strict budget with PIPS, so the program change made it a lot easier to handle.

After reading what Stone's reason for dropping SU was, makes sense to me...to bad for those that liked the program though...

[Traveler51]

Whoa! I was just looking at PIPs....
Now I have to wonder...
Thanks!