Anyone have experience purchasing dedicated servers?

12 years ago

You might want to run some benchmark tests on your scripts and such to get a better estimate of what type of server is needed. It's impossible to say a dual core machine with 4GB memory would be sufficient based on that information. Depending on what the script is doing, you might need lots of RAM, lots of processing power, lightning fast disks, or some combination of those.

You mentioned 'easily handle' the load. In that case you would want more server than you need, or at least a server that is easily expandable. It wouldn't be good if the server can't handle the load, or if your needs expand 2 months down the road. You also need to know the distribution of the requests. I.e. if you get 100 requests in 1 second as a peak load etc.

Servers cost more because they usually have many more reliability features. Usually servers have many redundant components such as power supplies and hard drives. RAM is sometimes error correcting. Hard disks are sometimes high RPM for faster access. These are some of the reasons they are more expensive than a typical desktop computer from Best Buy.

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Honestly, start with a VPS and scale from there. You'll spend less money testing this out on a VPS than you will a dedicated server. 20K "hits" doesn't mean say 20K sql queries.

Also, if you're planning on using something that's going to end up being in production, is an enterprise OS such as CentOS.

Look for a VPS which host servers use 15K SAS drives, not SATA.

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

A VPS would be a good starter now that I think about it. Does anyone who's used both a VPS and shared hosting have any idea what type of speed difference you get with a VPS over shared hosting?

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

A VPS would be a good starter now that I think about it. Does anyone who's used both a VPS and shared hosting have any idea what type of speed difference you get with a VPS over shared hosting?

It varies. It depends on what your websites are running & what else is on that server. Some companies overload their servers and some do not. The same goes for VPS. I would suggest Wired Tree for a VPS. They are a reputable provider that does not overload their environments. We have not begun to sell VPS servers yet.

You could also start with shared hosting, but pick the company wisely. I wouldn't recommend it though. If you don't know how much CPU/Mem your scripts are going to use then shared, VPS or even a dedicated server is kind of going blind if that makes sense.

A decent VPS would be a middle of the road solution for you.

-Brent

EDIT: Also, choose something with LiteSpeed.

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

I'm currently running sites getting 50,000+ visits a day on several shared hosting accounts. It works, but the speed isn't stellar and I'm wondering how much of a performance boost I;d get by moving to a VPS or dedicated.

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

I'm currently running sites getting 50,000+ visits a day on several shared hosting accounts. It works, but the speed isn't stellar and I'm wondering how much of a performance boost I;d get by moving to a VPS or dedicated.

That will depend on what's hindering the speed (load times I assume) - It could be the site itself or it could be due to an overloaded environment. A lot of people don't realize (in most cases) shared environments are massive servers. In some cases you come across companies that pile 2K+ accounts on a single server, which is when you start running into performance problems.

If your websites are having high latency, I'm willing to be it's the environment itself being overloaded and not that your sites are requesting tons of resources. The main culprit is mysql queries. When you have thousands of Wordpress sites querying the same mysql server for ridiculous things like adding Google Analytics code you will start to see latency.

Of course, I'm just basing this off of experience and the little bit of info you have given me so far. It very well could be that your sites need more resources, but my gut says it's the environment.

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

The sites do involve plenty of MySQL calls, but they're based on Godaddy shared servers which I know host thousands of sites (albeit mostly low-traffic ones).

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

The sites do involve plenty of MySQL calls, but they're based on Godaddy shared servers which I know host thousands of sites (albeit mostly low-traffic ones).

Wow. GoDaddy servers are...I'll just leave it at that.

Like I mentioned above, possibly look into a VPS.

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kingfish85

Wow. GoDaddy servers are...I'll just leave it at that.

Like I mentioned above, possibly look into a VPS.

Honestly, once I moved to their 4GH I haven't had too much of a problem. Has anyone used a Godaddy VPS? based on specs alone, they seem to offer more for the dollar. I can live without great customer support if I get double the power Hostgator, for example, offers for the same price.

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Mkj

12 years ago

I have had a powerful vps a few times. Now I run a server myself - from home! With the power of home broadband now there is no problem running websites. I currently run 30 database driven product shops off my home server and they fly.

Believe it or not I paid less than £60 for my server - well infact I have 3 now - off ebay plus del. Dual processor machines with 4 disc in scsi that are amazingly fast for both database search work and file backups. Can't recommend them highly enough. Link here

See sig for my growing list of shops...

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Kingfish85 12 years ago

Go here: Managed VPS | VPS Hosting | VPS Server | VPS Web Hosting | WiredTree

Don't screw around with GoDaddy. Their specialty is domain names, not hosting. I don't know how many providers you have been with in the past, but GoDaddy is not a company you want to be managing servers. At the end of the day it's your decision, but there are FAR better providers out there.
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ZenEight

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mkj

I have had a powerful vps a few times. Now I run a server myself - from home! With the power of home broadband now there is no problem running websites. I currently run 30 database driven product shops off my home server and they fly.

I wouldn't recommend this for anything mission critical or with many requests except for small niche sites / stores. You'll struggle in page speed, lack redundancy, and are susceptible to single point of failure problems like power outages (though I'm sure Mkj has a UPS).

Not trying to troll as it sounds like you know what you're doing, but for the OP's needs this is not a good idea. Get a Linode VPS and consult with an experience sys admin as your requirements could get pretty heavy so you maybe getting into load balancing, CDN's, memcache, etc...

Thanks
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Mkj

12 years ago

I wouldn't recommend this for anything mission critical or with many requests except for small niche sites / stores. You'll struggle in page speed, lack redundancy, and are susceptible to single point of failure problems like power outages (though I'm sure Mkj has a UPS).

It is a great way to learn about server setup but for sure it has it's limitations. Even so there are times when even a dedicated server will be offline at times, especially so if you run an unmanaged one and you cock it up or something...

I had a great experience with my vps with mddhosting. I ran a video site that was getting millions of page loads per month off a vps only. Mike - the guy that runs mddhosting - will bend over backwards a few times to help anyone. Not cheap but you will not find better.

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teguhyuliantos

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

I've never set up a server before, and I have no idea what type of processing power and memory is required to easily handle this kind of load.

If you never setting up server before, it's recommended to consult with server expert so that you can avoid any mistake.

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SteveSRS

12 years ago

I'm using vps . net I have 3 servers in the VPS clouds in UK / NL / US and using Galera I have a real-time master-master replication database with fall-over support.

When I just started at vps.net the service was awesome then they had a bad-time loosing many customers for about 3 -5 months and since about 6 months they are back in their game again and service again is very good!

I've also tried their geo-hosting but for bigger (and or more complicated) sites I can not recommend that just yet. They do offer a LOT of options though.

cloudvps.com is also very good as we run a full unlock server on this hosting serving customers world wide unlocking over 20.000 phones per month.

Stay away from (based on my own experience):
godaddy (anti-privacy - elephant killing worthless servers)
host1plus (loosing all data from whole data centre unrecoverable and giving worst customers service ever)
bluehost (for pro sites; fine for small sites)
lunarpages (just terrible all around)

In my previous research for finding a good VPS I also thought (no experience) the following were good:
site5
rackhost (bit of a steep learning curve though)

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

Everyone's saying bad things about GoDaddy's VPS service - but from what I can see, they still have the best prices. What specific issues have you had with their VPS service?

Thanks
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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

Everyone's saying bad things about GoDaddy's VPS service - but from what I can see, they still have the best prices. What specific issues have you had with their VPS service?

GoDaddy hosting in general, not just their VPS service.

Web Hosting Talk - Search Results

(Virtual) Dedicated server - Godaddy or else ? - Web Hosting Talk

GoDaddy Problems - Web Hosting Talk

Here's just a few threads, but I can find more horrible GoDaddy problems than ANY other company out there.

GoDaddy's web hosting is pretty much in line with every other "unlimited" web host out there. Their focus is on obtaining as many accounts as they can, not providing real solutions or quality environments. Having used them before, I can tell you they are a poor excuse when it comes to web hosting. 90% of the people on this forum will disagree simply because they have never used another web host.

If you want crap servers & slow sites, by all means go with GoDaddy. More and more today, the larger the company is the worse the performance. HG is a great company, but they are slowly slipping just like the rest.

GoDaddy also supported SOPA, but then retracted when they got public backlash and thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people started transferring domains out. Is this really a company you want to have control over your sites, data and/or business? I sure don't.

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Terry Crim

12 years ago

It is generally a bad idea to get hosting where you buy your domains. Dreamhost, hostgator, hostduplex are three that are good for all sorts of hosting. Dreamhost has their own custom control panels and even though they say it is faster I find it actually slower than a standard cpanel hosting.

I would go with a VPS vs a dedicated server to begin with. As you need more space, resources you can upgrade the VPS and even migrate to a full dedicated server.

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wayfarer

12 years ago

Or you could do what I do, and run everything yourself from an EC2 instance using Amazon web-services. I do this for my personal websites as well as for my company. This is probably the least expensive option that does not involve using your own equipment. The only thing you must learn to accept going the AWS route, is that you will get basically zero customer support. You are 100% responsible for your own instances. It's a great way to learn how the machine works!

If you are even considering running your own server, I would at least learn how they work first by booting them up on Amazon. They cost only a few cents per hour, and can be loaded with many different Linux operating systems, including Ubuntu. You can load the Ubuntu systems directly from Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide

I personally love Ubuntu servers and think they're as good as any other enterprise software.

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RichBeck

12 years ago

Originally Posted by wayfarer

Or you could do what I do, and run everything yourself from an EC2 instance using Amazon web-services. I do this for my personal websites as well as for my company. This is probably the least expensive option that does not involve using your own equipment. The only thing you must learn to accept going the AWS route, is that you will get basically zero customer support. You are 100% responsible for your own instances. It's a great way to learn how the machine works!

If you are even considering running your own server, I would at least learn how they work first by booting them up on Amazon. They cost only a few cents per hour, and can be loaded with many different Linux operating systems, including Ubuntu. You can load the Ubuntu systems directly from Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide

I personally love Ubuntu servers and think they're as good as any other enterprise software.

wayfarer,

I would have to agree... Cloud technologies like Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2) are the way to go with Auto Scaling, Elastic Load Balancing, High Performance Computing (HPC) Clusters and more...

It looks like VPS and dedicated servers will eventually disappear..... Like the floppy drive...

Yet, there will be some companies that will not embrace cloud technology... But, that will be limited to extremely sensitive data... Those paranoid companies will run their own servers in house...

God Bless,

Rich

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

I was under the impression that Amazon cloud servers were more aimed at temporary cloud-computing nodes and load balancing applications. It's actually cost-effective to use it as an alternative to a VPS?

As for Godaddy, I'm willing to overlook customer support, dissatisfaction with the company, and experiences with shared hosting. All I really want to know is whether there are any serious and definite issues with the VPSes they offer - server downtime, bad disk writes, failure to deliver guaranteed memory, etc.

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wayfarer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

I was under the impression that Amazon cloud servers were more aimed at temporary cloud-computing nodes and load balancing applications. It's actually cost-effective to use it as an alternative to a VPS?

In short, yes. There is nothing temporary about hosting something on an EC2 instance, and the redundancy has greatly increased since the instances became backed up by EBS volumes, and are now duplicated in 5 or more places.

But like I said in my previous post, you must become accustomed to the idea of loading a bare bones server, configuring everything from the command line at first, and not expecting Amazon to answer your customer support requests (though they do answer questions in the forums). If you're looking for a managed server Amazon is definitely not the way to go. This doesn't mean it isn't reliable, however!

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talking

12 years ago

If you use a dedicated server from 1paket or aspnix company, no issues you will face at all.
Good companies to have a deal with.

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Bomtik

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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xrampage16 12 years ago

I already contacted you personally, but I thought I'd post a message for the rest of the community as well. I own a hosting company called Komputer King, which has dedicated servers across the world, as well as specializes in 100% Hydro Hosting in our Canada region.

The problem with a lot of companies is that you're not quite sure what you need and what you require, and will overcharge you. With me, I'd be happy to assist you with your migration, get you setup with exactly what you need, and add to your infrastructure as you require it. We just completed setting up load balancing and redundancy between two of our data centers to reduce the probability of downtime tremendously, and run on only the fastest hardware to make sure that your site is as fast as possible.

Going with a godaddy.com, or a hostgator VPS will give you tons of issues like slowness, poor response times, as well as limited access to exactly what you need.

With me, you'll get migrated, I'll setup your litespeed/percona database server, give you the access you require, and have regular backups in case something goes wrong. I want you to be happy, so you can always contact me in you have questions.

It's the way I'd want to be treated if I was in your shoes =)
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teguhyuliantos

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

The entry level servers I've seen - dual-core processors and 4gb memory - are three times as expensive as equivalent desktop machines. What's the minimum machine configuration I should be looking for, and how much should I expect to pay?

For the best performance, I think your above specification its reliable to support your server.

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ZenEight 12 years ago
Of the startups and web design companies I've worked with, I usually see hosting choices in this order:
1. Linode
2. Media Temple
3. Rackspace
4. EC2
EC2 is great but expensive on the mid/higher end and not good if you aren't comfortable with server admin. Linode has excellent support and has a treasure trove of how-to's and other resources. Let us know what you choose and your experience with it!
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MarathonMan

12 years ago

My major problem with Linode and the other providers is a simple numbers issue. Check this comparison out:

Linode 2048
2048MB RAM
80GB space
800GB bandwidth
$80/month

VS

Godaddy Premium CentOS VPS
• RAM: 4 GB
• Storage: 120 GB
• Bandwidth: 4,000 GB/mo
Price: $80/month

Every single spec in the Godaddy plan is better - double the RAM, 40GB more disk space, over 4x the bandwidth (which is big for me!). With easy to find coupons, even the price is lower. Yes, Linode's support is better, but better support isn't worth half the power for your money.

Can anyone currently with Linode, Rackspace, or another higher-priced provider explain why you like your host over the other options, despite the price?

Thanks
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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

My major problem with Linode and the other providers is a simple numbers issue. Check this comparison out:

Linode 2048
2048MB RAM
80GB space
800GB bandwidth
$80/month

VS

Godaddy Premium CentOS VPS
• RAM: 4 GB
• Storage: 120 GB
• Bandwidth: 4,000 GB/mo
Price: $80/month

Every single spec in the Godaddy plan is better - double the RAM, 40GB more disk space, over 4x the bandwidth (which is big for me!). With easy to find coupons, even the price is lower. Yes, Linode's support is better, but better support isn't worth half the power for your money.

Can anyone currently with Linode, Rackspace, or another higher-priced provider explain why you like your host over the other options, despite the price?

Are these single disk configs?

Also, have you checked Softlayer?

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

Every single spec in the Godaddy plan is better - double the RAM, 40GB more disk space, over 4x the bandwidth (which is big for me!). With easy to find coupons, even the price is lower. Yes, Linode's support is better, but better support isn't worth half the power for your money.

Can anyone currently with Linode, Rackspace, or another higher-priced provider explain why you like your host over the other options, despite the price?

If all you're worried about is getting the most for as cheap as possible, then by all means go with GoDaddy. If you want quality performance and good support I would advise you to do a little more research on dedicated server providers. When your server has a disk failure at 2 in the morning and GoDaddy support runs you through the 50 different procedures they want you to do, you'll see what I mean.

Quality services cost money. If that 120GB is not RAID, you'll lose everything on that single disk should it fail.

Like I said earlier, you're better off starting with a VPS. I am telling you all of this from my 10 years of experience in this & the IT industry, not just because I don't like GoDaddy.

If you want to know the specs you need and what companies actually offer them + good support, go to Web Hosting Talk - The largest, most influential web hosting community on the Internet

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MarathonMan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kingfish85

If all you're worried about is getting the most for as cheap as possible, then by all means go with GoDaddy. If you want quality performance and good support I would advise you to do a little more research on dedicated server providers. When your server has a disk failure at 2 in the morning and GoDaddy support runs you through the 50 different procedures they want you to do, you'll see what I mean.

Quality services cost money. If that 120GB is not RAID, you'll lose everything on that single disk should it fail.

I don't know what kind of RAID GoDaddy uses on their VPSes, but I assume they must have it in place. VPSes generally run on virtualized hard drives, not actual drives. If a dozen of their clients' sites went down with every disk failure I imagine there would be repercussions.

That's definitely a question I'll ask. If their VPSes do have a decent raid setup, what other issues could there be? The prices seem to be the best in the market, and I'd hate to settle for less just because of the public sentiment against Godaddy as a host.

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

I don't know what kind of RAID GoDaddy uses on their VPSes, but I assume they must have it in place. VPSes generally run on virtualized hard drives, not actual drives. If a dozen of their clients' sites went down with every disk failure I imagine there would be repercussions.

That's definitely a question I'll ask. If their VPSes do have a decent raid setup, what other issues could there be? The prices seem to be the best in the market, and I'd hate to settle for less just because of the public sentiment against Godaddy as a host.

I understand how virtual servers work. The VPS ultimately resides on physical disks. If the host is using slow speed drives etc, your performance is going to be crap.

Don't assume that they include RAID with dedicated servers. It costs additional money to add a RAID card as well as more disks. Just by looking at their config option on dedicated servers, they only offer RAID 1, which mirrors both drives. Only having 2 drives is still very risky. I have seen both drives fail at once. It's rare, but does happen.

I also can't find anywhere on their website that specifies the disk configuration of the hosts their virtual servers are running on. That doesn't help boost any confidence.

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mojojuju

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

Every single spec in the Godaddy plan is better - double the RAM, 40GB more disk space, over 4x the bandwidth (which is big for me!). With easy to find coupons, even the price is lower. Yes, Linode's support is better, but better support isn't worth half the power for your money.

It seems that way, but there's more to it than the numbers given for RAM and disk space, and bandwidth...

Consider things like disk speed, the datacenter that the VPS resides in and its connectivity to the outside world, the processor used, how many processor cores are available to your VPS, how many VPSs are you sharing server resources with?....

You really won't know for sure which provider will run your application the best until you test it on one of those particular servers. I've seen VPSs with 2 GB RAM perform better than others with 4 GB RAM for my particular sites. Things like a processor with a larger cache and fast drives will make a big difference in how fast your application runs. All you can do is test different providers; the proof is in the pudding...

I haven't used GoDaddy, but those Linode VPS's perform well.

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System Wide Solutions

12 years ago

Cant we use Amazone web services for this purpose? Are they costly?

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porcupine73

12 years ago

Plus usually the lower end dedicated servers, if they have RAID mirrored drives are relying on the OS to do the mirroring, which will almost always be slower than using an actual hardware based RAID controller.

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MightyWarrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MarathonMan

...test & backup server as well as handling backend processing...

better be well isolated, imo

I would never run test, backup,
& production on the same box
at the same time.

you need a managed vps, imo
if you don't know what you are
doing...

it's not hard, but how much is
your time really worth?

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dreamtech

12 years ago

A VPS would be a good starter now that I think about it. Does anyone who's used both a VPS and shared hosting have any idea what type of speed difference you get with a VPS over shared hosting?

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1 reply

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Kingfish85

12 years ago

Originally Posted by dreamtech

A VPS would be a good starter now that I think about it. Does anyone who's used both a VPS and shared hosting have any idea what type of speed difference you get with a VPS over shared hosting?

It depends on what you're looking to do. You have to remember, a shared environment is A LOT more powerful than a single VPS in most cases. You could possibly have a decrease in performance depending on the requirements of your site.

If you have a basic website or Wordpress site, just moving to a VPS doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a speed increase. There are a lot of things to factor in here..

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CPAGodFather

12 years ago

Well I have 1GB to ram on mine and it handles 40k+ people a day easily but you can use apache to benchmark the number of simultaneous connections your server can handle before it slows down.

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Emil from Bavaria

12 years ago

A not too small VPS should be able to handle that kind of traffic unless the scripts you run are very resource intensive.

Running your own dedicated servers can be somewhat interesting but it's probably better to focus on your core business instead.

Managed VPS with daily backups would be my recommendation. Wiredtree, Knownhost, Liquidweb, Linode, etc...

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locke815

12 years ago

I think a small size dedicated server or a VPS would do good. What is your budget?

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Anyone have experience purchasing dedicated servers?

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