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aargh! Stop the PBN deindexing "Google God" Urban legends.

by Mike Anthony
42 replies
  • SEO
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Okay My cup runneth over.... Lol. Ever since a certain wildly popular service and site had their PUBLIC PBN deindexed and a few other people got hit my PM box has been filled with urban legends. Apparently everyone who has had their entire network deindexed knows more than I, who has seen very little deindexed, do. Over the last month I have heard the following - some of them that equate Google with some kind of God -

TOP FIVE PBN MYTHS GOING AROUND

Pushing a domain from one registrar account to another flags your sites - Why wrong? Pushes happen every day for non PBN reasons

Google looks behind whois privacy - Why wrong? Too many people use whois privacy and have their own name without getting deindexed

Google has an algo based way of deindexing sites automatically not manually - Why Wrong? If did all the crappy content networks I see still helping people rank would be dead.

Links from non relevant sites to your PBN cause deindexing automatically - Why wrong? how many times have people on this forum linked to adobe and Microsoft - IM to non im sites - and yet they are not deindexed. Some people say anchor text mismatch is how its done. Two problems with that

A) sites expire all the time that are set up by new owners who are NOT running a PBN. Pretty big companies for totally legit reasons buy domains for branding purposes. Any automatic deindexing would kill all those sites based on their previous link profile yet there they are untouched

B) most organic link profiles ( which is what you are buying domains for when you buy a domain for links) are not anchor text heavy anyway. URL anchor links abound and various others non niche phrase variations. Most of the time you see a site really anchor text laden in their link profile theres been some grey hat black hat SEO going on

Finally theres the all time favorite - non-relevant DOMAINS cause deindexing. That one won't go away despite the fact that Amazon.com has nothing to do with the river, Facebook.com is not a site about portraits and who the world knows what adobe.com is relevant to (short name for a Doberman?) .
STOP THE MADNESS. THIS IS WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.

There are only two or three proven ways PBNs get hit. They get hit on SEO hosts, get reported or they are public networks anyone can buy space on and a google employee buys and then sees the sites in the network and deindexes them.
#aargh #deindexing #google god #legends #pbn #stop #urban
  • Profile picture of the author danparks
    Ha ha, too long and logical of a post, so I don't think their will be a lot of replies. People who have an urban legend stuck in their mind don't want to read an explanation of why they might be wrong.

    I had just 3 of my hundreds of PBN (very, very Private) sites deindexed during that last purge by Google. They were all on the same hosting account (I have my PBN divided into a few PBNs so I do put more than one site on the same host). When I checked on other sites on that same server (not my sites, but sites of others), everything was deindexed. So, that's an SEO hosting issue where Google just deindexed everything.

    I've got a few older (3+ years) PBN sites that admittedly aren't very good now - a bunch of unrelated articles on the same page, all keyword-specific anchor texts, badly spun content, just a few pages per site. Hey, I was a rookie back then, what did I know? And they actually worked to rank back then! They're unused now and I need to go back and clean them up. Anyway, they didn't get deindexed. If any PBN sites should have, it was these. Maybe some people had lousy sites like that deindexed, but it shows Google certainly isn't close to perfect at finding PBN sites. They probably do a lot of damage just by finding "bad neighborhoods" for hosting and taking them out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by danparks View Post

      Ha ha, too long and logical of a post, so I don't think their will be a lot of replies. People who have an urban legend stuck in their mind don't want to read an explanation of why they might be wrong.
      .
      Probably right but I shortened it now anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
    Agreed. Lots of misinformation about PBNs floating around these days.

    Some theories better than others, but the majority border on the ridiculous and illogical.
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  • Profile picture of the author rendesr
    PBN's still work, let everyone lose their minds and choose other methods to rank, just means more cheap domains available for me :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by rendesr View Post

      PBN's still work, let everyone lose their minds and choose other methods to rank, just means more cheap domains available for me :-)
      You know, that kind of raises an interesting point. An interesting contradiction. There are a whole host of people running around crying about how PBNs are dead, Google knows all about them, you're foolish to start one or work with one. But then, on the other hand, domain buying for PBNs has recently gone completely crazy. In the past it was fairly easy to find PR3s cheap, even fairly easy to find dropped ones for the cost of registration. Now everything above a PR1 is getting scooped up right away, oftentimes for ridiculous prices. So, if PBNs really are the next big fail, why is every dropped domain of even moderate quality getting snapped up quick? (me, I know the anwer - PBNs aren't dead, I'm just saying ...)
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      • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
        Originally Posted by danparks View Post

        You know, that kind of raises an interesting point. An interesting contradiction. There are a whole host of people running around crying about how PBNs are dead, Google knows all about them, you're foolish to start one or work with one. But then, on the other hand, domain buying for PBNs has recently gone completely crazy. In the past it was fairly easy to find PR3s cheap, even fairly easy to find dropped ones for the cost of registration. Now everything above a PR1 is getting scooped up right away, oftentimes for ridiculous prices. So, if PBNs really are the next big fail, why is every dropped domain of even moderate quality getting snapped up quick? (me, I know the anwer - PBNs aren't dead, I'm just saying ...)
        PBN's are fantastic. The problem is, they require a hefty investment and you need to be sure that you're going to get that investment back.

        When I lost a good 40 or so domains recently, I had to invest another $2k in getting another 40. I've already recouped that cost - but for most, they don't have any money-making sites yet, and don't have the $2k to spare, or to gamble with.

        The REAL problem is, I used to rank my money sites with 15 PBN sites. Now, it takes 40-50. The competition is real, and it's getting worse. People have PBN's of 1,000+ sites and you're competing against these guys in the SERP's. It means you have to invest more, and there comes a point where the only way to get your $$ back is to:

        a) Sell links on your PBN
        b) Go into a huge niche that's profitable

        A reduces the quality of your network and makes it public, and B is a huge gamble.

        I am actually attempting B at the moment. I'm making a huge authority site in a SILO structure. I expect it to take a year or so to even bring in any pennies - doing a mixture of PBN links and all-out whitehat links, with a lot of my time focused on branding/social media.

        My existing money sites are funding the project, so I'm not out of pocket. My hope is that my authority site will supersede my smaller niche sites and become a long-term site that provides enough quality to survive any manual reviews later down the line, and attract natural links in the process.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO Power
        Originally Posted by danparks View Post

        You know, that kind of raises an interesting point. An interesting contradiction. There are a whole host of people running around crying about how PBNs are dead, Google knows all about them, you're foolish to start one or work with one. But then, on the other hand, domain buying for PBNs has recently gone completely crazy. In the past it was fairly easy to find PR3s cheap, even fairly easy to find dropped ones for the cost of registration. Now everything above a PR1 is getting scooped up right away, oftentimes for ridiculous prices. So, if PBNs really are the next big fail, why is every dropped domain of even moderate quality getting snapped up quick? (me, I know the anwer - PBNs aren't dead, I'm just saying ...)
        You are right about the prices of expired domains. I recently purchased a subscription to Register Compass and attempted to grab a few expired domains. After I began my search, I was shocked by the prices displayed. The only domains that were cheap were either the worthless ones that most won't buy or the ones that still have days left before their auctions would expire.

        All the good domains whose auctions have only a few hours to expiration are available at incredibly high prices - and those prices aren't the final prices. They will still go up as more people bid on the auctions.

        PBNs do still work, no doubt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Icematikx
    What's interesting though Mike.. You know how my PBN was structured. I had Tier 1 sites (PR3-PR4) naturally, and Tier 2 sites (PR5-PR6) naturally.

    My Tier 2 sites would link to about 8-10 Tier 1 sites.

    When the big "PBN attack" happened, I lost 90% of my Tier 1, and only about 20% of my Tier 2. Both lay on "SEO" hosting.

    The only thing that distinguished the two tier's was that one linked to money sites, the other to PBN sites.

    I had about 40 in each Tier, so there's too big of a fluctuation between 90% and 20% for it to be coincidence - especially since they all sat on the same hosts practically (all with unique IP's obviously).

    I think there's definitely an algorithm that passes it to the manual quality team. Or, the quality team are merely doing their job by looking at top ranking money sites and exploring their link profiles, and then dropping the obvious PBN sites linking to those money sites.

    I've no other reason why my Tier 2 would be left intact.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by Icematikx View Post

      What's interesting though Mike.. You know how my PBN was structured. I had Tier 1 sites (PR3-PR4) naturally, and Tier 2 sites (PR5-PR6) naturally.

      My Tier 2 sites would link to about 8-10 Tier 1 sites.

      When the big "PBN attack" happened, I lost 90% of my Tier 1, and only about 20% of my Tier 2. Both lay on "SEO" hosting.

      The only thing that distinguished the two tier's was that one linked to money sites, the other to PBN sites.

      I had about 40 in each Tier, so there's too big of a fluctuation between 90% and 20% for it to be coincidence - especially since they all sat on the same hosts practically (all with unique IP's obviously).

      I think there's definitely an algorithm that passes it to the manual quality team. Or, the quality team are merely doing their job by looking at top ranking money sites and exploring their link profiles, and then dropping the obvious PBN sites linking to those money sites.

      I've no other reason why my Tier 2 would be left intact.
      What kind of content was on your tier 2 sites compared to your tier 1 sites, I suppose not the typical articles that you used on your tier 1 sites, and how did you link from your tier 2 to tier 1? In content or text links in footer or sidebar?

      I think you restored the sites to the old state a bit and the links were non contextual right? That would explain why the manual reviews haven't deindexed most of the tier 2 ones, when the content matches the domain it's a lot less sensitive to deindexations.

      I had the same:

      - 10 sites on SEO hosting on hyper relevant domains
      - 10 sites on SEO hosting on hyper relevant domains
      - 20 sites on SEO hosting on irrelevant domains

      They were all on the same hosting from Skynet.

      Zero lost from the ones on hyper relevant domains, 18 lost from the ones on irrelevant domains.

      Obvious the sites shouldn't be hosted at SEO hosting to begin with, but in case a manual review takes places cause you get reported then the risk is significant higher when your links are on irrelevant domains.

      OP likes to call it off as a myth cause he doesn't have any experience with it as he doesn't use SEO hosts. I know a little better these days.

      On the other hand, the risk of a manual review when your sites are hosted on solid shared hosting plans is so extremely small that it doesn't really matter and in terms of rankings it doesn't matter either. Sure links from relevant domains are probably a little stronger but try to find relevant domains with strong backlink profiles, it's like an impossible task.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        OP likes to call it off as a myth cause he doesn't have any experience with it as he doesn't use SEO hosts. I know a little better these days.
        .
        OP calls it a myth because it is

        A) I specifically referred to automatic deindexing based on relevance. There is no such practice
        B) anyone who believes that a site about inversion table s with links to money site inversion tables on a SEO host (where there are almost nothing but PBNs) gets protected is drunk. I've seen sites not even in use with no content on them get nuked. I don't need to be on SEO hosts to see sites on SEO hosts.

        but yeah pretty proud I don't use SEO hosts you are right. I am even prouder I told everyone in my course to get off them two years ago and saved my customers tens of thousands of dollars.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
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          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          OP calls it a myth because it is

          A) I specifically referred to automatic deindexing based on relevance. There is no such practice
          B) anyone who believes that a site about inversion table s with links to money site inversion tables on a SEO host (where there are almost nothing but PBNs) gets protected is drunk. I've seen sites not even in use with no content on them get nuked. I don't need to be on SEO hosts to see sites on SEO hosts.

          but yeah pretty proud I don't use SEO hosts you are right. I am even prouder I told everyone in my course to get off them two years ago and saved my customers tens of thousands of dollars.
          True point in that.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        They were all on the same hosting from Skynet.
        Cannot believe you were still using them. Not only are they an SEO host, but they were probably the most targeted of all the SEO hosts I have seen.

        3 years ago, I had a site with them get de-indexed that did not even have any external links on it. Whole server got blown up. 99 out of 118 domains on the server were de-indexed.

        And the other 19 were probably left indexed by accident.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
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          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          Cannot believe you were still using them. Not only are they an SEO host, but they were probably the most targeted of all the SEO hosts I have seen.

          3 years ago, I had a site with them get de-indexed that did not even have any external links on it. Whole server got blown up. 99 out of 118 domains on the server were de-indexed.

          And the other 19 were probably left indexed by accident.
          Well, actually I never had a domain deindex on Skynet in about 2 years time, and it was the last SEO host I had in use. I had about 80 domains there, mostly weaker ones on the A-class hosting. Then lost about 50 over night so that was the definitive goodbye to SEO hosts. Actually those were already in the planning to be moved but it got delayed a few times till it was obvious too late.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Well, actually I never had a domain deindex on Skynet in about 2 years time, and it was the last SEO host I had in use. I had about 80 domains there, mostly weaker ones on the A-class hosting. Then lost about 50 over night so that was the definitive goodbye to SEO hosts. Actually those were already in the planning to be moved but it got delayed a few times till it was obvious too late.
            Ouch. That was a costly delay.

            I don't think I've had 50 domains de-indexed in 10 years. I'd flip out losing that many.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
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              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Ouch. That was a costly delay.

              I don't think I've had 50 domains de-indexed in 10 years. I'd flip out losing that many.
              Nah mostly PR3's that lost some links so probably PR2's by then so only lost a few k, when you compare that to $50k spend on the whole network over 2 years it's really not that much.

              Nowadays I'm a lot more careful though as I can't get large amounts of dropped PR3-PR4's for $40-$75 price range anymore or maybe I'm much more picky these days.
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      • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        They were all on the same hosting from Skynet
        Well you can't say nobody ever predicted the rise and fall of Skynet

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Icematikx View Post

      I've no other reason why my Tier 2 would be left intact.
      Sure you do. bet you didn't worry too much about anchor text on your tier twos. One thing google must have is a list of its most spammed words and phrases and patterns to those phrases.

      I am not saying Google employees don't have tools and once they identify a server they don't run automated processes on them but its not the algo from start to finish otherwise those extremely crappy PBNs ranking sites wouldn't still be there and they are.
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  • Profile picture of the author AffiliatingAlan
    I disagree with some of this.

    I think theres an algo in place.

    There are tons of ways for google to find PBNs with an algo. Then factor everything through a probability scale.

    @OP: what are your thoughts regarding proxy use when setting up individual domain registrar accounts? Google be a regisrar now with the eye of gods; and i'm inclined to think this would be a footprint when every single PBN has the same registrar whois IP all pointed to domains with the same IP.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by AffiliatingAlan View Post

      I disagree with some of this.

      I think theres an algo in place.
      Nope.... doesn't really matter what you or I think. Too many private PBNs are out there untouched and ranking sites for an algo to be working. These PBN sites ARE crawled and they have been factored into the algo because the sites are ranking but they have not been deindexed. Proof is in the pudding

      There are tons of ways for google to find PBNs with an algo. Then factor everything through a probability scale.
      there CAN BE millions of imagined ways but only what is ACTUALLY being used matters. People come up with all kinds of theories but forget that Google has Microsoft so far licked and has no intention of doing anything that would give MS a way in. Trying to use an algo to determine sites that are PBNs could have the very unfortunate affect of tanking tens of thousands of sites that are not. I am sure google is working on it but its not here yet. Thats not my opinion thats my looking at hundreds of PBN sites that are built thin, spammy and obvious that are still ranking tons of sites (less than 40% of customer I build PBNs for ever add content in the way I recommend and they still do well with very little deindexing)

      @OP: what are your thoughts regarding proxy use when setting up individual domain registrar accounts? Google be a regisrar now with the eye of gods; and i'm inclined to think this would be a footprint when every single PBN has the same registrar whois IP all pointed to domains with the same IP.
      My opinion is thats another urban myth in the making. I know of no ICCAN rule that gives a registrar access to another registrar's customer IP address.

      Google has no eyes of God. You are buying right into the hysteria and paranoia I talked about.

      all sites on one registrar might be a manual consideration so I now use 4 different ones but I'm not worried about them handing over my IP to Google like Google is even the government much less god like.
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      • Profile picture of the author AffiliatingAlan
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Nope.... doesn't really matter what you or I think. Too many private PBNs are out there untouched and ranking sites for an algo to be working. These PBN sites ARE crawled and they have been factored into the algo because the sites are ranking but they have not been deindexed. Proof is in the pudding
        How do you know they just havent been hit yet?

        Or they are failing on the exterior from what you can see; but under the hood they are doing fine. So maybe they havent tripped enough wires to hit that probability % for an algo de-index. Like you said G would have to be very careful to not accidently phuck with good sites.

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        My opinion is thats another urban myth in the making. I know of no ICCAN rule that gives a registrar access to another registrar's customer IP address.
        Do you actually know this? Or are you just speculating? People told me the same thing when I had a hunch about host emails being traceable. And then I actually figured out how to track them myself and confirmed my initial hunch.

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Google has no eyes of God. You are buying right into the hysteria and paranoia I talked about.
        This was a joke to go along with thread title.

        I cant say your wrong or right but if I was with G there are so many ways to find a network.

        Ex. Find all recently ressurected sites re-registered with same ICANN IP whether proxied or real. If more than 3-10 in the past few months, add to sh1t list.

        Crawl current sh1t list using an ahrefs, moz, majestic, useragent string. Now we've filtered our sh1t list further to find multiple resurrected sites blocking backlink analyzers.

        Run our list through more PBN exclusive type footprints and soon enough the probability of it not
        being a PBN would be nearly impossible.

        Initiate de-index.
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        • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
          Originally Posted by AffiliatingAlan View Post

          Run our list through more PBN exclusive type footprints and soon enough the probability of it not being a PBN would be nearly impossible.
          Then comes the next wave of Negative Seo... PBN NSEO Attacks! I could then set up a network on some Seo Shared Hosting, throw a few hundred bucks at setting up a kick ass PBN (with purposely placed 'footprints' of course), then the Magical Google Algo would find the PBN, de-index my competitions site, and I once again Reign Supreme!!

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          • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
            Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

            Then comes the next wave of Negative Seo... PBN NSEO Attacks! I could then set up a network on some Seo Shared Hosting, throw a few hundred bucks at setting up a kick ass PBN (with purposely placed 'footprints' of course), then the Magical Google Algo would find the PBN, de-index my competitions site, and I once again Reign Supreme!!
            Those same footprints would put Google and half the web under an algo penalty.

            It's a page with a 500 word article and a link you say?

            MANIPULATORS

            KILL THEM ALL!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

            , then the Magical Google Algo would find the PBN, de-index my competitions site, and I once again Reign Supreme!!

            Thats the kind of thing that illustrates why Google doesn't do the things the Urban Legenders like Alan claim they do
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by AffiliatingAlan View Post

          How do you know they just havent been hit yet?

          Or they are failing on the exterior from what you can see;
          I oversee a few hundred and in my line of business see ton loads more. All that is besides my own. I also know many other PBN owners and they tell me the same thing. So thats a whole lot of PBNs not hit - sorry thats hundreds of pieces of evidence to your zero evidence claim.

          Do you actually know this? Or are you just speculating?
          Now if that aint the kettle calling the pot black? Everything you have posted in this thread has been nothing but speculation borne by the same paranoia the OP cites. Proof in the pudding - if your speculations were true then ton loads more PBNs would have been hit and they are not. Again sorry. the speculation of yours does not stand up to the real world.

          I cant say your wrong or right but if I was with G there are so many ways to find a network.
          So what? only ones that matters is what they do use and the proof that they are not using them is again the hundreds of PBns that are sitting right there - some of them the worse setup on the planet and still ranking sites.

          You do know the difference between imagination and reality right?

          Ex. Find all ecently ressurected sites re-registered with same ICANN IP whether proxied or real. If more than 3-10 in the past few months, add to sh1t list.
          yep and then wipe out companies that have several subsiduaries and reup their domains at the same time. BTW Do you even understand ANYTHING about the market? Sites used for PBNs are often NOT resurrected as far as Google is concerned. Most are still indexed and in the database as live. Many PBN owners will NOT by a domain that has been removed by Google as still active.

          Crawl current sh1t list using an ahrefs, moz, majestic, useragent string. Now we've filtered our sh1t list further to find multiple resurrected sites blocking backlink analyzers.
          Bzzzz many people don't block at all and please stop trying to work around the language filter. Thats a violation of board rules.

          Run our list through more PBN exclusive type footprints and soon enough the probability of it not
          being a PBN would be nearly impossible
          Yep as suspected you don't have the first clue what you are talking about. Thats usually the case with people who start Urban legends. A well built PBN has no "exclusive type footprints"

          One day over the rainbow maybe even soon there might be an algo that takes out the badly made ones but that day aint here yet no matter how much you conjecture. Most of us who do competitive research and check backlinks come across sites ranking with crappy PBNs all the time.

          Good news is that well built PBNs look just like any site that links to another one. When that algo you are talking about is passed then you will be right and Google will display nothing when you put in a search. ......long live Bing!
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          • Profile picture of the author AffiliatingAlan
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            I oversee a few hundred and in my line of business see ton loads more. All that is besides my own. I also know many other PBN owners and they tell me the same thing. So thats a whole lot of PBNs not hit - sorry thats hundreds of pieces of evidence to your zero evidence claim.
            Hundreds of pieces of evidence does still not give a hard yes.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            So what? only ones that matters is what they do use and the proof that they are not using them is again the hundreds of PBns that are sitting right there - some of them the worse setup on the planet and still ranking sites.
            My point was the ones that appear to look terrible on the exterior might not be tripping enough wires on the interior. Ie blocking bots, 404 redirects, etc.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            You do know the difference between imagination and reality right?
            I am a buddhist and believe that both are one in the same.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            yep and then wipe out companies that have several subsiduaries and reup their domains at the same time. BTW Do you even understand ANYTHING about the market? Sites used for PBNs are often NOT resurrected as far as Google is concerned. Most are still indexed and in the database as live. Many PBN owners will NOT by a domain that has been removed by Google as still active.
            The point was to add them into a list of many filters. Not immediately de-index any ressurected site. If expired there would be a filter to detect that as well and add to the "said" list.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Yep as suspected you don't have the first clue what you are talking about. Thats usually the case with people who start Urban legends. A well built PBN has no "exclusive type footprints"
            I never said a well built one would be hit. It wouldnt pass through enough filters to hit that probability %.

            This final refined list could even be sent to a human for manual review.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            One day over the rainbow maybe even soon there might be an algo that takes out the badly made ones but that day aint here yet no matter how much you conjecture. Most of us who do competitive research and check backlinks come across sites ranking with crappy PBNs all the time.
            How hard do you think it is to crawl all sites recently expired or ressurected, feed that through a crawl using a useragent string of well known bots, crawl that list through an algo looking for batch 404 redirects to homepage, then finally crawl that list through known pbn hosts. Then manual or algo sweep.

            No legit ressurected or expired sites would trip all four of these criteria.

            Contrary to what you think I am actually inclined to agree with everything you said. Not because its impossible for what I said, but because I actually dont think its happening on the level I discussed right now.

            But if you actually think that any type of algo is "over the rainbow" then you're a little delusional.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
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              Originally Posted by AffiliatingAlan View Post

              How hard do you think it is to crawl all sites recently expired or ressurected, feed that through a crawl using a useragent string of well known bots, crawl that list through an algo looking for batch 404 redirects to homepage, then finally crawl that list through known pbn hosts. Then manual or algo sweep.

              No legit ressurected or expired sites would trip all four of these criteria.

              Contrary to what you think I am actually inclined to agree with everything you said. Not because its impossible for what I said, but because I actually dont think its happening on the level I discussed right now.

              But if you actually think that any type of algo is "over the rainbow" then you're a little delusional.
              It is damn easy and we would all be toast if Google would do this. Obvious they would let the final list go through a manual reviewer, and if they were smart they would also check to see if there is any real identity behind it, the purpose of the site and as a first check see if the content matches with what the site used to be about.

              Doing all that and 99.9 percent of PBN are all toast.

              We should thank God or Buddha, that this isn't happening (yet).

              Interestingly, if this would happen we would all be wiped out and only the true authority sites would prevail (something you already see happening quite a lot). It's not like they are not buying links, but they are buying them from journalists and thus they end up on real sites (mostly online newspaper types of sites) that we either can't afford or don't have the connections for. Perhaps it's not in Google's best interest to make this happen as it would make the search results very boring so who knows that's the reason why they don't do it. Perhaps far sought but it does make sense in a certain way.

              Besides that, while making it boring, seeing the same sites over and over, it also means that much less relevant sites that didn't use any techniques to rank will start to show up on the top. Not too mention age old never updated sites. This would bring the quality of search results down as well. Heck in some niches you already get useless results on the first page, this would only get worse the more aggresive Google becomes cleaning up "spam". The spam of today is qualitative often better then the crap they build 10 years ago.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by AffiliatingAlan View Post

              Hundreds of pieces of evidence does still not give a hard yes.
              beats the evidence you have presented hundreds to nada. A few hundred witnesses see you committing a crime you are going to jail thats a hards yes

              My point was the ones that appear to look terrible on the exterior might not be tripping enough wires on the interior. Ie blocking bots, 404 redirects, etc.
              Saw them. you didn't and many did - besides PBNs don't need to have anything called 404 redirects (some people recreate the main pages). Even 301 redirects which you might be confused about are not usually used with a PBN but in place of a PBN. You have no clue what you are talking about but are just filling the air with nonsense words.


              I am a buddhist and believe that both are one in the same.
              who cares? Your beliefs are meaningless to this discussion. I imagine you stop posting nonsense claims with zero evidence.

              Nope - didn't work....... didn't matter what I imagined. You are still here.....so much for that belief.

              Let me cut it short. You have presented no evidence WHATSOEVER for your claims. You are just throwing up coulda , maybes and imaginations you think make reality because of your faulty illogical belief systems. We don't care .

              bring some hard facts. This is EXACTLY what the OP is about . People such as yourself junking up real knowledge by floating their urban legends.

              Stand by it - there will NEVER be an algo that can take out all PBNs because PBNs can be built in a variety of ways. I've said openly that crappy ones probably could be hit in the future so buy some glasses. Still right now it is not happening. Whatever you imagine in your head out here in the real world many of the things you claim are now active are not.

              But if you actually think that any type of algo is "over the rainbow" then you're a little delusional.
              I'm sorry my man but you are borderline illiterate in English reading. I wrote

              One day over the rainbow MAYBE EVEN SOON (see it this time???) there might be an algo that takes out the badly made ones but that day aint here yet no matter how much you conjecture
              So the delusion is in your own head but seeing as whatever is up there you see as reality - roll with it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                How hard do you think it is to crawl all sites recently expired or ressurected, feed that through a crawl using a useragent string of well known bots, crawl that list through an algo looking for batch 404 redirects to homepage, then finally crawl that list through known pbn hosts. Then manual or algo sweep.
                What in the tarnation are you talking about???? I'll respond to this lest people be fooled by your claims. You can impress Nik0 with this scenario but he doesn't know that much about networks anyway. He's been trying to float another urban legend that if you are on a SEO host but have relevant content google will say...oh I'll leave you alone.

                Its hard to know where to start with all the misunderstandings you just showed about how PBNs are bought and built

                First of all 90% of strong PBNs NEVER EXPIRE OR NEED RESSURECTING. Google sees them as live and we know that because they are still in the index (they wouldn't be trying to serve up daed sites in there index now would they?). Most auction buyers will not buy domains that are not in the index and when buying through auctions the domains NEVER EXPIRE

                So your first alleged killer filter just shows you don't know anything about PBNS because that filter would affect very few PBN sites.

                Second if you think everyone is using batch 404s to the home page again you are totally deluded.

                A) Most organic links are to particular pages and therefore it is unnecessary to do batch 404s
                B) Many non PBNS do 404 redirects to places besides the home page automatically.

                3rd let google run the list through a bunch of known SEO hosts. NO GOOD PBN BUILDER HAS USED SEO HOSTS for about a year and a half. I told PBN builders in my class and here to stop using them two years ago.

                Sorry you just proved again you have no idea about PBNs, how they are bought or built - nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Thank gawd your selling a solution.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Thank gawd your selling a solution.
      I thank him every time I think of you no longer being a mod

      But nope. I have no solution for urban legends. almost everybody here uses PBNs besides mine.. Sorry Yuke.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Your neobux buddy needs a cleanup on aisle 7.

          Well why don't you clean it up? Your a. mo.......oh yeah thats right.

          I get to thank God again.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Looks like your buddy is selling iphones now, not sure what happened to neobux, lol.
              Dead link. Oh no....A real mod cleaned it up. lol.....Its only a matter of time you get banned for back seat modding. Meanwhile wheres that thread on a moz feature thats really dandy? Bonus will be knowing you are looking for the delete button but.....oooops.
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Dead link. Oh no....A real mod cleaned it up. lol.....Its only a matter of time you get banned for back seat modding. Meanwhile wheres that thread on a moz feature thats really dandy? Bonus will be knowing you are looking for the delete button but.....oooops.
                Did you report the thread & wait to comment (j/k)?

                Never fear, you can still get your free iphone from the yahoo email, lmao.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Did you report the thread & wait to comment (j/k)?
                  Nope... It was already deleted. New career mods are now faster than many of the amateur ones before them...You being the prime example of the slower previous ones

                  Yukon looks around desperately looking for the delete button....lol
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                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
                    Banned
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                      Hurry & download Action Jackson before it's gone!

                      Lol, that movie sucked back in the 1980's.

                      PK 2014 Full Movie Download Free
                      Dude you are no longer a mod we know - get over it. Now you are linking to cached pages on google because the spam has already been removed by mods. Pretty desperate. Thanks for the bumps to my topic but you are derailing this threads subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
    I need to ask to vital detils for PBN.

    1. What is the best method of Tier 1-2 for PBN, ?

    Tier 1 PBN Sites
    Tier 2- Web 2.0,Wiki,Edu Blogs,Social Networks,Social Bookmark,PDF Submission can be a good method or not.

    2. What about content must be?

    - Relevant to Money Site
    - Irrelevant to Money Site
    - Unique Articles for customer content with 2 links to its money site?

    Waiting your ideas.
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    Pixel Creative
    www.pixelcreative.com.tr

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by pixelcreative View Post

      Tier 1 PBN Sites
      Tier 2- Web 2.0,Wiki,Edu Blogs,Social Networks,Social Bookmark,PDF Submission can be a good method or not.
      Last Penguin update my understanding is Google cut the effectiveness of link blast sources by half on the second tier so if you want to do tiered link building its best to get some expired domains for your tiers.
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      • Profile picture of the author pixelcreative
        Thanks for your answer.

        What do you think for tier 2, high pr domains or trust-flow rate high domains (moz).

        But if you think, when you buy dropped domain with trust flow 10-15, when you build a website. New pages will be indexed and pages also will be lower trust flow. So what is strategy here?



        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Last Penguin update my understanding is Google cut the effectiveness of link blast sources by half on the second tier so if you want to do tiered link building its best to get some expired domains for your tiers.
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        Pixel Creative
        www.pixelcreative.com.tr

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  • Profile picture of the author Calum Jones
    Just sign up to a registrar you've never used before with fake details and push it to a host you've never used before with fake details. Tell me how this can be discovered? There has to be at least ONE George Johnson in Arizona. I'd make DAMN sure the new sites match what it used to be about. Don't just buy a domain about gardening because the metrics are good if you're trying to rank in the travel niche. There's so many fish in the sea just find one in your niche then you've got a niche-relevant PBN it seems pretty bulletproof to me.

    I use dollar hosting I sure hope that won't screw me over... Though I saw a similar REAL fan site that was using dollar hosting. I guess it's when it has "SEO" in the host name that it destroys you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrustedSEO
    Hi,

    The PBN epidemic... Will will all this end? If everyone would STOP and breathe and START focusing on building QUALITY, and doing things that produce results, then none of yyou would have the desire to continue to implement Blackhat SEO Strategies?

    When will some of you learn? Wake up and smell the coffee.

    Greg Smith
    Signature
    Visit My Reputable SEO Company -> Either Click here OR Here OR To Email me click here!! :)

    A Top 20 Local SEO Blog: Check out our FREE SEO and Internet Marketing Tutorials! An awesome SEO Blog just for you!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by TrustedSEO View Post

      When will some of you learn? Wake up and smell the coffee.

      Greg Smith
      We are waiting on you considering your blog has a featured article about finding expired domains with pagerank.

      please don't junk up the forums with hypocritical statements just to pimp your sig


      P.S. I'm loving all the blog comment link spam to your site in your white hat strategies,,,,,(ROFL only on WF)
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  • Profile picture of the author IMCapitalist
    where else on earth that I can find such a fruitfull posts in SEO, doesn't matter white or black side,
    thanks, I learned alot here.
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