What is a PBN, how do they work, and are they still a viable option for ranking?

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  • SEO
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So I have been absent from here a few weeks while learning some new things in the IM world. What I am currently struggling with is PBNs - Private Blog Networks.

I think I understand the concept though please please tell me if I have it wrong. A PBN is your own (or someone elses) network of blogs. Most likely made up of expired domains that have some sort of established PageRank (existing backlinks). As it's private you can control it's content and it's links. You use this network of blogs/sites to funnel authority or just backlinks to your other money sites. In general to help your main sites rank higher in Google. (<-- is that right?)

Now I have read in many places that PBNs are Satan and Google will smite thee for using them. Other sources say they are just fine to use. I am stuck on this one. Spencer Haws from Niche Pursuit goes over how to buy expired domains to build PBNs to rank your sites higher in Google. Is this still a viable and low risk option? I use low risk loosely.

Any light on this subject would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Daniel
#option #pbn #ranking #viable #work
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    The problem isn't link networks, the problem is buying links on spammy public link networks that drop links from dozens of irrelevant niches on junk articles.

    If it looks like spam, it's spam.
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    • Profile picture of the author TekNite
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The problem isn't link networks, the problem is buying links on spammy public link networks that drop links from dozens of irrelevant niches on junk articles.

      If it looks like spam, it's spam.
      I can take this as encouragement than? A PBN seems like an awesome asset to add to my rankings optimization strategy. So If the PBN is under my complete control and I spend the time and effort into making it decent quality and relevant than this I can benefit from with out to much worry into getting penalized?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim3
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The problem isn't link networks, the problem is buying links on spammy public link networks that drop links from dozens of irrelevant niches on junk articles.
      If it looks like spam, it's spam.

      Although smoted by the hand of Mod
      his trespasses have been forgiven
      Welcome back Yukon...
      they'll learn
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The problem isn't link networks, the problem is buying links on spammy public link networks that drop links from dozens of irrelevant niches on junk articles.

      If it looks like spam, it's spam.
      Yep, I realized that the hard way.

      Always thought the only risk was deindexations and thus with proper hosting I assumed it would all be well.

      Not since Penguin 3.0 anymore, heck Google doens't even need to take public blog networks down anymore, just buy too many links on public blog networks and don't diversify your link building and you'll go down without Google having to lift a finger. Sad but true.
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
    Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

    Now I have read in many places that PBNs are Satan and Google will smite thee for using them. Other sources say they are just fine to use. I am stuck on this one. Spencer Haws from Niche Pursuit goes over how to buy expired domains to build PBNs to rank your sites higher in Google. Is this still a viable and low risk option? I use low risk loosely.
    What you have heard about Google smiting those that use them almost always fall into two categories:

    1. Public Blog Networks - These are easily found because they are Public, as in publicly announced and available. Google finds these just as easy as you do, can join them themselves, and de-index the entire network, taking along with them their respective linked-to sites. Not good. Public is not Private. Keep that in mind.

    2. Private Blog Networks - These almost never get found or taken down, if done correctly. People who do them incorrectly are the ones that get caught and taken down. People who do them correctly almost never do.

    I can't speak for Spencer Haws (never heard of him), but I and everyone here can vouch for the two Mikes. Take heed or ye shall be smitten and will forever burn in eternal flames of hell (just keeping in with your comment that PBN's are the spawn of the devil.. which they are.. bwahaha lol!)
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    They work fantastically well. That's why Google has been trying to discourage their use.

    There are different ways you can build them to make them safer and less likely to feel Google's wrath.

    But to answer your question, yes they work.
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  • Profile picture of the author TekNite
    Thank you both for your answers. lol. Do either of you know, MikeFriedman and jinx1221, what a good source would be to learn about creating my own PBN? Maybe a tutorials, blog, site, etc,.? Anything to teach me how to do this properly? Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

      Do either of you know, MikeFriedman and jinx1221, what a good source would be to learn about creating my own PBN? Maybe a tutorials, blog, site, etc,.? Anything to teach me how to do this properly? Thanks!
      I see a big yellow sign somewhere around here. Just sayin'
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      • Profile picture of the author TekNite
        Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

        I see a big yellow sign somewhere around here. Just sayin'
        Lol I am totally lost on what you mean?
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        • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
          Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

          Do either of you know what a good source would be to learn about creating my own PBN? Maybe a tutorials, blog, site, etc,.? Anything to teach me how to do this properly? Thanks!
          Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

          I see a big yellow sign somewhere around here.
          Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

          Lol I am totally lost on what you mean?
          Hehe! Let's see.. there is a little yellow sign with big blue letters at the bottom of the reply that Mike wrote to you.

          I hope that was somewhat less cryptic
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          • Profile picture of the author TekNite
            Originally Posted by jinx1221 View Post

            Hehe! Let's see.. there is a little yellow sign with big blue letters at the bottom of the reply that Mike wrote to you.

            I hope that was somewhat less cryptic
            I must seriously need some sleep cause I see no little yellow sign with any letters anywhere on this site and esp not under Mikes post. lol
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              [DELETED]
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              • Profile picture of the author TekNite
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Umm... he is referring to this.

                Lol, I see the image you just posted but I see it no where else on the page. Like it's not under your post or in your post or a sig in your post. Strange...
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

                  Lol, I see the image you just posted but I see it no where else on the page. Like it's not under your post or in your post or a sig in your post. Strange...
                  Ah... You have signatures turned off then.

                  Go to User CP at the top of the page. Select Edit Options.

                  Under Thread Display Options, check the box that says Show Signatures.
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              • Profile picture of the author creat1veone
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Umm... he is referring to this.

                To the OP's defense, I never saw that, and I saw dozens of your posts, is that a signature? Because apparently no one has a signature on this forum.
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by creat1veone View Post

                  To the OP's defense, I never saw that, and I saw dozens of your posts, is that a signature? Because apparently no one has a signature on this forum.
                  You must have signatures turned off too then.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by creat1veone View Post

                  To the OP's defense, I never saw that, and I saw dozens of your posts, is that a signature? Because apparently no one has a signature on this forum.
                  Almost everyone does. One of the reasons I didn't renew my image sig link (yet at least) is because many people can't see the signature links. Seems like off is the default now.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Umm... he is referring to this.
                ROFL now see about promotional?? The Old mods would have NUKED that sig ad in your post (I am NOT saying the new ones should - just referencing an earlier conversation people were having here on that)
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  ROFL now see about promotional?? The Old mods would have NUKED that sig ad in your post.
                  Yeah I know. I was planning on deleting it. Just trying to figure out what was going on.

                  I deleted my post.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                    Yeah I know. I was planning on deleting it. Just trying to figure out what was going on.

                    I deleted my post.
                    See my edit before you posted that. I was NOT saying I thought it should be removed. Not to derail this thread but its caused me hesitation about renewing my image link subscription. Ton loads of new people apparently can't see sigs.
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                    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Ton loads of new people apparently can't see sigs.
                      Well there goes my $60 lol! Oh well, looks cool anyways
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                    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      See my edit before you posted that. I was NOT saying I thought it should be removed. Not to derail this thread but its caused me hesitation about renewing my image link subscription. Ton loads of new people apparently can't see sigs.
                      No I felt it shouldn't be there. My plan when I posted it was to delete it when the conversation had run its course.

                      As for the signature thing, that was a sneaky little change they apparently made with no announcement. Sucks for us. Great for them. Keeps more people on the site I suppose.
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    • Profile picture of the author deezn
      Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

      Thank you both for your answers. lol. Do either of you know, MikeFriedman and jinx1221, what a good source would be to learn about creating my own PBN? Maybe a tutorials, blog, site, etc,.? Anything to teach me how to do this properly? Thanks!
      MikeFriedman's course (I'm about to buy this tonight)

      Private Network 2.0 Course

      Mike Anthony's product (excellent stuff)

      SEO Networks and PBN services - Drop Kick SEO
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      • Profile picture of the author deezn
        Gotta report back. And I'm hesitant to say this because the less people know about PBNs the better, but Mike F's course is pretty awesome. A lot of the stuff I kind of knew from Mike A's (now discontinued) course. But it's a different take on things, and there are more articles vs. vids. I prefer articles 100% of the time unless a video is necessary, which it sometimes is. I read really fast (procrastination in college and grad school ).

        But the stuff on how to build out the sites is worth the price by itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMLab
    Originally Posted by TekNite View Post

    Is this still a viable and low risk option? I use low risk loosely.
    Building PBN(s) is still a good way to get a great boost for your rankings. However, you need to set them up in the right way.

    Here are some notes on that:

    1. Your websites must be relevant and of high quality.
    2. Must be full of quality original content.
    3. Very low outbound links (less than 5).
    4. Must link out to authority websites.
    5. Must contain relevant images and videos.
    6. You must not use the same keyword over many websites.
    7. The websites of the private blog networks must not be hosted on the same server. They must be hosted at different A class servers. (Yes, A and not C).
    8. You must not connect the sites of the PBN together in any way, shape or form.

    There are many other notes that you need to pay attention to as well, a full guide can be found at my signature area.

    Overall, focus on your quality content and invest in social media marketing. A good balanced decent marketing technique is the best way to drive good traffic for your website.

    Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author link82
    As others have stated, private PBNs work best--but only if you don't leave footprints for Google to catch ya.

    Something else that's been working wonders for me lately? Web 2.0 properties, frankly, if "done" right, just like PBNs. Good, relevant content, low outbound links, etc, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrettMickley
    I built a couple of PBNs in Tumblr that I use regularly and so far everything seems good. Been using them for a couple years now.

    I knew a guy who built a massive one with WordPress sites and he did pretty well for a while with that. Still might; I don't know because I don't talk to him anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Toby Couchman
    Another tip is Anonymity. Create a fake persona for each PBN you build. No Google webmaster tools. No Google analytics. Use a plugin like spyder spanker to hide your site from Majestic, ahrefs bots

    You want these sites to fly under the radar as much as possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author vinniffa
      Originally Posted by Toby Couchman View Post

      Another tip is Anonymity. Create a fake persona for each PBN you build. No Google webmaster tools. No Google analytics. Use a plugin like spyder spanker to hide your site from Majestic, ahrefs bots

      You want these sites to fly under the radar as much as possible.
      Not very wise. This go into you robots. How nice it is for Google robot to find that your robots.txt is blocking Majestic, etc..
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by vinniffa View Post

        Not very wise. This go into you robots. How nice it is for Google robot to find that your robots.txt is blocking Majestic, etc..
        It doesn't actually use robots.txt
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi,

    PBN's have worked magic for me over the last several months but you need to be careful how you create them, add content and build links from them. Google has started to de-index PBN's and many people have been "HIT" hard after the the algo rolled out. However, there is a safe strategy you can use to make sure you stay on the good side of things.

    I've written a pretty lengthy posts about PBN best practices and I'll share the things you need to keep in mind when building them.

    Now obviously these are things to change however keeping in mind the obvious like creating different email addresses, don't use same affiliate links as banners or within content. If you can use a proxy and change location when registering domain or web 2.0 properties, etc.

    With the obvious in mind...

    1) Write high quality content relevant to your “targeted” website. Content should be in-depth well over the normal threshold of 500-600 words. I usually write content 900-1500 words. If you have trouble writing content this long then spread out the process over several days writing 200 words per day.

    2) Frequency should be no more than “2” posts per week. However make sure to follow the linking strategy mentioned in the next step.

    3) DO NOT link out every post. You need to have websites look as real as possible which means NOT having your content always linking to your “targeted” website. You CAN link out to other relevant authority websites within your content. DO NOT exceed more than “1” external link to a relevant source.

    4) Every 4th piece of content published should be linked to your “targeted” website. Include no more than “2” links going to “2” separate pages. When building links it’s important to mix around the keywords between “anchor” and “related”.

    5) Make sure to keep working on the design of your website so it looks as real as possible. For example, add a Home, About Us and Contact Us page. Next, add some menus relevant to your niche making it more realistic. It’s not important to do this all in one day but when you have time…work on the design!
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Hi,

      PBN's have worked magic for me over the last several months but you need to be careful how you create them, add content and build links from them. Google has started to de-index PBN's and many people have been "HIT" hard after the the algo rolled out. However, there is a safe strategy you can use to make sure you stay on the good side of things.

      I've written a pretty lengthy posts about PBN best practices and I'll share the things you need to keep in mind when building them.

      Now obviously these are things to change however keeping in mind the obvious like creating different email addresses, don't use same affiliate links as banners or within content. If you can use a proxy and change location when registering domain or web 2.0 properties, etc.

      With the obvious in mind...

      1) Write high quality content relevant to your "targeted" website. Content should be in-depth well over the normal threshold of 500-600 words. I usually write content 900-1500 words. If you have trouble writing content this long then spread out the process over several days writing 200 words per day.

      2) Frequency should be no more than "2" posts per week. However make sure to follow the linking strategy mentioned in the next step.

      3) DO NOT link out every post. You need to have websites look as real as possible which means NOT having your content always linking to your "targeted" website. You CAN link out to other relevant authority websites within your content. DO NOT exceed more than "1" external link to a relevant source.

      4) Every 4th piece of content published should be linked to your "targeted" website. Include no more than "2" links going to "2" separate pages. When building links it's important to mix around the keywords between "anchor" and "related".

      5) Make sure to keep working on the design of your website so it looks as real as possible. For example, add a Home, About Us and Contact Us page. Next, add some menus relevant to your niche making it more realistic. It's not important to do this all in one day but when you have time...work on the design!
      I disagree with pretty much everything in this post.

      1) I agree with having good content, but the length doesn't really matter. Depends on the topic at hand.

      2) Most well built network sites you will have no posting frequency. You set them up and never post on them again.

      3) You can link to far more than 1 relevant source.

      4) I would just about never link to a target site more than once from the same site. You start adding a lot of links to the same site, and it becomes pretty obvious what you are trying to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        I disagree with pretty much everything in this post.

        1) I agree with having good content, but the length doesn't really matter. Depends on the topic at hand.
        Agreed, I don't even write articles, still rank pages (long term).

        Something like Google SERPs In-depth articles are usually lengthy webpages but I've only seen those show up in the SERPs for root keywords, I'm sure most probably have very low conversion rates considering the search queries are so generic (ex: bacon, car, hair, etc...).

        [edit]
        Google In-depth articles also show up for brand name keywords. Still, those 3 ranked pages tend to stay at the bottom of the first page. My bet is traffic searching for a brand name doesn't scroll down the page, they click the first search result (the branded domain name).
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    • Profile picture of the author Dukulal
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Hi,

      PBN's have worked magic for me over the last several months but you need to be careful how you create them, add content and build links from them. Google has started to de-index PBN's and many people have been "HIT" hard after the the algo rolled out. However, there is a safe strategy you can use to make sure you stay on the good side of things.

      I've written a pretty lengthy posts about PBN best practices and I'll share the things you need to keep in mind when building them.

      Now obviously these are things to change however keeping in mind the obvious like creating different email addresses, don't use same affiliate links as banners or within content. If you can use a proxy and change location when registering domain or web 2.0 properties, etc.

      With the obvious in
      1) Write high quality content relevant to your "targeted" website. Content should be in-depth well over the normal threshold of 500-600 words. I usually write content 900-1500 words. If you have trouble writing content this long then spread out the process over several days writing 200 words per day.

      2) Frequency should be no more than "2" posts per week. However make sure to follow the linking strategy mentioned in the next step.

      3) DO NOT link out every post. You need to have websites look as real as possible which means NOT having your content always linking to your "targeted" website. You CAN link out to other relevant authority websites within your content. DO NOT exceed more than "1" external link to a relevant source.

      4) Every 4th piece of content published should be linked to your "targeted" website. Include no more than "2" links going to "2" separate pages. When building links it's important to mix around the keywords between "anchor" and "related".

      5) Make sure to keep working on the design of your website so it looks as real as possible. For example, add a Home, About Us and Contact Us page. Next, add some menus relevant to your niche making it more realistic. It's not important to do this all in one day but when you have time...work on the design!
      How do google find out which ip was used to register a domain?
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  • Profile picture of the author Toby Couchman
    @AskAnAffiliate Great advice man!

    When building out your PBNs do you make sure that the backlink footprint on the old domain matches the content on the target site?

    By that I mean that the existing backlinks to the old domain are relevant to the target site content and thus the content placed on the PBN.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi,

    Yes! This is very important!

    When I purchased domains, I do a thorough check to make sure that the domain had a history of relevance to my "target" website. For example, if my website is about "health& weight loss" I
    ll make sure I target a High PR, PA and DA which is relevant to my "target" website. I can use some tools like AHREFS to track the link profile of the domain I'm planning on purchasing.

    Now,

    It doesn't have to be spot on but can be relevant to my "target" website. If the domain is in the same niche or close, I can create content and go from there. However, do some more checks before like to see if domain has been blacklisted or forwarded to another domain by the person who owned it before. Many times people will forward there old domain to a new one which means much of the juice or relevance will be redirected to their new website.

    However,

    If no forwards or hasn't been blacklisted I move onto the next step which is planning my content and keyword variation. I basically follow the rules I posted above.

    Thanks and let me know if I answered your question or if you have anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi,

    When I first started PBN's I followed the advice of pioneers in the industry. Once some of them got penalized, we decided to try different things over several months to see what produces the best results. My strategy has always been to be careful because getting a manual penalty will be a tough strike to recover from especially when your brand is at stake.

    Anyway,

    1) I suggest different length content so that the website looks natural and NOT all the same. For example, 500-600 words don't really do it for me or for Google. If you are trying to build authority, it's important to shake things up. Again, I said try different length content however I personally like going with longer content as it shows effort on your end.

    2) Setting them up and never post again. Are you using auto posting software? If so, I would stay away, you've probably had success now but it could be problems going forward. If writing content is an issue, I would hire someone to get the writing done for me.

    3) I meant linking to "1" relevant source per article. Again, I'm speaking from my experience and how I've done well using this formula. You have to remember, it's a slower process but safer process.

    4) NOT linking more than once. Well, I link once every 4th or 5th article to again make a PBN website look natural. Again, from my experience, I've done very well using this strategy.

    You have to remember, you have to keep building the authority of each website in order for a PBN to produce magic. I've kept producing consist manual content on each website and 1-2 twice a month, I add another website. I build through both expired domains and use web 2.0 properties.

    This has done very well for me and I haven't been hit by any penalty.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      1) I suggest different length content so that the website looks natural and NOT all the same. For example, 500-600 words don't really do it for me or for Google. If you are trying to build authority, it's important to shake things up. Again, I said try different length content however I personally like going with longer content as it shows effort on your end.
      Just not something I would get hung up on. Good quality content is what matters, not the length or lack of length.

      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      2) Setting them up and never post again. Are you using auto posting software? If so, I would stay away, you've probably had success now but it could be problems going forward. If writing content is an issue, I would hire someone to get the writing done for me.
      Of course I'm not using an auto poster. That would be asinine.

      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      3) I meant linking to "1" relevant source per article. Again, I'm speaking from my experience and how I've done well using this formula. You have to remember, it's a slower process but safer process.
      Just irrelevant. I've written posts on my network sites that link to 3-4 relevant sources. Not a big deal.

      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      4) NOT linking more than once. Well, I link once every 4th or 5th article to again make a PBN website look natural. Again, from my experience, I've done very well using this strategy.
      Having a site that links to the same site over and over again, even if it is once every 4th or 5th article, is not "natural".
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Just irrelevant. I've written posts on my network sites that link to 3-4 relevant sources. Not a big deal.
        I must be missing your point because you can't be saying increasing the links in posts particularly if one of them is to your money site does not up the possibility of Google seeing your site as selling links just because it meets relevancy requirements.

        I see no reason whatsoever to do what you are saying here.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi Mike,

    Just irrelevant. I've written posts on my network sites that link to 3-4 relevant sources. Not a big deal.
    Wow! That's a lot of external links within an article you claim is NOT that long. I just hope they are relevant links and back up whatever point your making within the content.

    Next,

    Having a site that links to the same site over and over again, even if it is once every 4th or 5th article, is not "natural".
    I have a few websites which have 7-8 published posts and growing each week. I've linked to external high authority blog's numerous times and many of these authority external websites have a pingback feature which automatically links back to my website. I agree they will be do-follow but great to trickle some traffic to my PBN website. With that said...

    I don't think it would be an issue if I have a natural looking website to link back to my target website every 5th-6th article published on my PBN. It would be the same as linking to external relevant sources just like I’ve done numerous times before but this time it would be to my “target” website.

    I just make sure I link to websites which are solid and reputable. I have always taken an approach to PBN which is to built high authority websites with loads of awesome content. Why? Simple, once there built they can be an asset for years and will keep growing as an asset. For course, that’s if they haven’t been penalized or removed!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Wow! That's a lot of external links within an article you claim is NOT that long. I just hope they are relevant links and back up whatever point your making within the content.
      I normally agree with Mike but I have to agree. thats a poor practice.

      Even if the extra links are not a red flag (and i think they would cause a reviewer to dig deeper) then you are just dividing your juice for no good reason. It certainly does not make the post look natural by itself so why bother?
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I normally agree with Mike but I have to agree. thats a poor practice.

        Even if the extra links are not a red flag (and i think they would cause a reviewer to dig deeper) then you are just dividing your juice for no good reason. It certainly does not make the post look natural by itself so why bother?

        I just meant that linking to only one authority source is not needed. You can link to 3-4 in the same post. "Real" posts do that all the time.

        And I'm not talking about tossing in 3-4 other external links on a page that I'm linking to a money site on. That would divide up linkjuice that I care about. I'm talking about just a internal page on a network site.

        It really is not bleeding out much linkjuice that way.

        I wouldn't do it on a homepage or in the sidebar.

        You can have a bunch of links on the same page linking to a money site too though. I create "resource" pages on network sites all the time that have 10-12 links on them and maybe 2 are to my money sites.

        Again, not something I'm going to do on every site. My point was that his limit of linking out to only one source was not a guideline anyone really needs to follow.

        EDIT: And I'm talking about 3-4 links out to places like WebMD, Medicare.gov, Wikipedia, CNN, etc., not momsgreatestblogever.com or some other silly sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          I just meant that linking to only one authority source is not needed. You can link to 3-4 in the same post. "Real" posts do that all the time.
          Short articles not all that common to see four links. Resource pages sure but I think he was talking about posts as in context links
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Short articles not all that common to see four links. Resource pages sure but I think he was talking about posts as in context links
            Yeah, but I never said I would toss four links in a short article either.

            I said article length is not all that important. But that doesn't mean I'm tossing 4 links in 300-word articles. I would use something more like a 1500-word article if there are that many links.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      I have a few websites which have 7-8 published posts and growing each week. I've linked to external high authority blog's numerous times and many of these authority external websites have a pingback feature which automatically links back to my website. I agree they will be do-follow but great to trickle some traffic to my PBN website. With that said...

      I don't think it would be an issue if I have a natural looking website to link back to my target website every 5th-6th article published on my PBN. It would be the same as linking to external relevant sources just like I've done numerous times before but this time it would be to my "target" website.

      I just make sure I link to websites which are solid and reputable. I have always taken an approach to PBN which is to built high authority websites with loads of awesome content. Why? Simple, once there built they can be an asset for years and will keep growing as an asset. For course, that's if they haven't been penalized or removed!
      It's not an issue to do it on a site here and there. Do the same thing on 20 sites and it starts to look suspicious.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    I must be missing your point because you can't be saying increasing the links in posts particularly if one of them is to your money site does not up the possibility of Google seeing your site as selling links just because it meets relevancy requirements.

    I see no reason whatsoever to do what you are saying here.
    Hi,

    I've always kept mine to "1" external relevant source per article and "1" "target" link every 5th or 6th article.

    It's a good way to keep things smooth.

    There is an example, where this guy created PBN's (I'M AFRAID TO POST LINK HERE). He got "HIT" hard after the Google update. When you go to his website, you see nothing but 6-7 links on each page. Honestly, it looked so fixed and unnatural that I said I would never do that! Google killed him and dropped like 26 websites from his PBN.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Even if the extra links are not a red flag (and i think they would cause a reviewer to dig deeper) then you are just dividing your juice for no good reason. It certainly does not make the post look natural by itself so why bother?
    Hi,

    I think thats what they do however you'll never 100% know. For example, they have a automatic system in place to detect un-natural patterns and send a list of websites to manual checkers who go through looking for patterns. You need to understand..

    Once you've been flagged, your always under the eye!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Funny reading this stuff while I've had site wide links to multiple domains (not all my own domains) for years on pages that still rank today. No slaps.
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    • Profile picture of the author chris_87
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Funny reading this stuff while I've had site wide links to multiple domains (not all my own domains) for years on pages that still rank today. No slaps.
      For your site wide links are you typically just using the domain name or are you doing anything related to your KWs?
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by chris_87 View Post

        For your site wide links are you typically just using the domain name or are you doing anything related to your KWs?
        Both.

        Example, say my keyword is best shoes for breakdancing (lol), build a page with the keyword in the URL on the money page/site.

        Backlink anchors like: http://domain.com/best-shoes-for-breakdancing

        Or... the usual domain.com anchor.

        Keep in mind I don't do site wide external links for Google, If/when I do site wide links it's always for my traffic. My sites are also tightly themed & the links are always pointing at pages where the entire site is relevant to my own domain/niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi,

    I'm hoping some will provide feedback to this...

    "Hi,

    Quick question to everyone who has a PBN network...

    What is the ratio your using between expired domains and Web 2.0 properties. I've started to focus more attention on WEB 2.0 properties as a fellow blogger has had success with them.

    Any thoughts and feedback will be good."
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Hi,

      I'm hoping some will provide feedback to this...

      "Hi,

      Quick question to everyone who has a PBN network...

      What is the ratio your using between expired domains and Web 2.0 properties. I've started to focus more attention on WEB 2.0 properties as a fellow blogger has had success with them.

      Any thoughts and feedback will be good."
      Maybe nobody is replying because there's no magic number. Percentages & SEO usually don't go together.

      For the record, 2.0s aren't magic either, they're no different than any other backlink page when it comes to SEO. Either it's an authority page or it isn't, the name of the page is irrelevant.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Hi,

      I'm hoping some will provide feedback to this...

      "Hi,

      Quick question to everyone who has a PBN network...

      What is the ratio your using between expired domains and Web 2.0 properties. I've started to focus more attention on WEB 2.0 properties as a fellow blogger has had success with them.

      Any thoughts and feedback will be good."
      I use brand new domains instead of 2.0s. I would rather have something I own and control.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Maybe nobody is replying because there's no magic number. Percentages & SEO usually don't go together.

    For the record, 2.0s aren't magic either, they're no different than any other backlink page when it comes to SEO. Either it's an authority page or it isn't, the name of the page is irrelevant.
    Thanks for the reply however you need to remember right off the BAT they could be...

    For example, I can buy an expired domain with an established DA & PA, links and relevancy. However with web 2.0 I would have an established DA, for example, weebly.com or blogger.com and would need to work on the PA and building links to each web 2.0 property.

    The reason I asked was to figure out how effective they are in boosting rankings for targeted websites. Many people don't have a financial backing to buy high established domains and hosting each month.

    I have heard many people have success but wanted to know if you guys mixed things up or focus on one over the other. I am currently testing both however feedback is always welcomed.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Thanks for the reply however you need to remember right off the BAT they could be...

      For example, I can buy an expired domain with an established DA & PA, links and relevancy. However with web 2.0 I would have an established DA, for example, weebly.com or blogger.com and would need to work on the PA and building links to each web 2.0 property.

      The reason I asked was to figure out how effective they are in boosting rankings for targeted websites. Many people don't have a financial backing to buy high established domains and hosting each month.

      I have heard many people have success but wanted to know if you guys mixed things up or focus on one over the other. I am currently testing both however feedback is always welcomed.
      I hope your not suggesting a 2.0 root domain is helping in any way to rank a sub-domain (2.0). Your 2.0 sub-domain will never have a link on blogger.com or weebly.com.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      For example, I can buy an expired domain with an established DA & PA, links and relevancy. However with web 2.0 I would have an established DA, for example, weebly.com or blogger.com and would need to work on the PA and building links to each web 2.0 property.

      The DA will end up having no effect for you because on a web 2.0 you do not control the domain only a page. WEB 2.0s are only good under three scenarios

      A) variety add on (some extra reference points)
      B) tiered link building to build up their juice
      C) saving on hosting and domain registration costs

      Their downsides are numerous.

      You do not control them so you have limited control of how to flow juice within your space

      Many add links to your pages diluting the juice

      You are adding another company to supervise your activity and even punish you by removing the pages entirely

      Really Web 2.0s are only popular as "PBNs" (if you can call them that) because of cost. Even expired domains that no PBN builder wants has more juice.
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    I use brand new domains instead of 2.0s. I would rather have something I own and control.
    Hi,

    Thanks for the feedback. This is EXACTLY the thought process I wanted to know about because again I am running a case study on effectiveness and trying to figure out which route to focus on.

    Thanks again Mike!
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    I hope your not suggesting a 2.0 root domain is helping in any way to rank a sub-domain (2.0). Your 2.0 sub-domain will never have a link on blogger.com or weebly.com.
    NOPE! Not suggesting that at all. Google ranks pages individually which is why anything on a web 2.0 property will have a DA 80 or so (depending on web 2.0 property) and PA 0 when creating a new website. However, expired domains are better when they have an established history. I'm just asking effectiveness from people who have tried both and if recently one is better than the other or as effective (+) (-)
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      NOPE! Not suggesting that at all. Google ranks pages individually which is why anything on a web 2.0 property will have a DA 80 or so (depending on web 2.0 property) and PA 0 when creating a new website. However, expired domains are better when they have an established history. I'm just asking effectiveness from people who have tried both and if recently one is better than the other or as effective (+) (-)
      That right there should tell you how easy it is to skew DA results. The number is useless.

      No offense but IMO there's no answer to your original question that could be helpful. There's too many variables between two people doing their own SEO. The difference between competition alone could be a deal breaker. Example, one guy targeting the keyword auto insurance & the other guy targeting the keyword how to make bacon rainbows fargo nd. The 2nd keyword example will rank from a page title alone, the insurance keyword is going to be a pain with link building.
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      • Profile picture of the author chris_87
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That right there should tell you how easy it is to skew DA results. The number is useless.
        Unfortunately with John Mueller claiming PR will no longer be updated, this might be the best we can do from here on out.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by chris_87 View Post

          Unfortunately with John Mueller claiming PR will no longer be updated, this might be the best we can do from here on out.
          Precisely. Those claiming Moz metrics are useless are living in denial. Thats like saying because Pagerank could be faked it was useless or because web spam tiered link building used to result in pages having PR then it was useless.

          Moz metrics combined with majestic is what we have now (with ahrefs to a lesser degree)and when DA is gamed its not hard to figure out - check backlink count. Furthermore DA is not skewed with web 2.0s. DA refers to DOMAIN authority and the web 2.0s have good strength to the home page and other pages.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by chris_87 View Post

          Unfortunately with John Mueller claiming PR will no longer be updated, this might be the best we can do from here on out.
          The backlink profile is what matters.

          Moz doesn't have insider info. on anything with their DIY metrics. It's like one of us making up a metric & telling everyone it's important.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            It's like one of us making up a metric & telling everyone it's important.
            ROFL.....Ridiculous nonsense. You could not even begin to develop a metric because you don't have the infrastructure. Moz and Majestic metrics are now central metrics in most professional SEO toolkits and correlate fairly well with pagerank when it was updating.

            When are you going to let go that they required a credit card for a trial and you didn't have one?
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            • Profile picture of the author Shaefercd
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              ROFL.... Moz and Majestic metrics are now central metrics in most professional SEO toolkits and correlate fairly well with pagerank when it was updating.
              Where can you find these metrics and how to use them?
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    That right there should tell you how easy it is to skew DA results. The number is useless.

    No offense but IMO there's no answer to your original question that could be helpful. There's too many variables between two people doing their own SEO. The difference between competition alone could be a deal breaker. Example, one guy targeting the keyword auto insurance & the other guy targeting the keyword how to make bacon rainbows fargo nd. The 2nd keyword example will rank from a page title alone, the insurance keyword is going to be a pain with link building.
    Thank you for your feedback!
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  • Profile picture of the author unidentified
    Thanks for all the great information this is exactly what I was looking for about PBN I found the questions and the answers. lol...
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  • Profile picture of the author AskAnAffiliate
    Hi,

    I'm sure they have system in place. I use Wordpress and have a plugin on one of my niche websites which tells me location and even IP address. I'm sure Google has a system in place to find the same information. They use it to ensure safety on their end.

    With that said...

    I just make sure to use a proxy because I want to keep each website separate. Many people have said it matters and others state that it doesn't. I just like keeping things separate. I'll use a proxy to setup GWT and whatever else I need.

    It's that I rather be safe from the beginning!
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by AskAnAffiliate View Post

      Hi,

      I'm sure they have system in place. I use Wordpress and have a plugin on one of my niche websites which tells me location and even IP address. I'm sure Google has a system in place to find the same information. They use it to ensure safety on their end.

      With that said...

      I just make sure to use a proxy because I want to keep each website separate. Many people have said it matters and others state that it doesn't. I just like keeping things separate. I'll use a proxy to setup GWT and whatever else I need.

      It's that I rather be safe from the beginning!
      This is complete hogwash. Google cannot tell what IP address you are logging into one of your own sites from unless you are using Google as a host for the site.

      And why in the world would you setup GWT on a network site? That is just plain useless and dumb.

      Not to mention that your IP is not the only way that Google can identify you. Are you using Chrome? Are your cookies and browsing history completely wiped? Does your browser have the PR Toolbar installed? Those are all far easier ways for Google to identify you than your IP address when you login to GWT.
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  • Profile picture of the author bleachersrights
    They are a network of blogs aimed at linking out to your various domains.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robinami
    If you can mask the footprint & can find good standing PA,DA domain & can put good content on them ,then PBN is a very good option now.

    Along with PBN I prefer to be more social.
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