Calling all seo experts (popular keywords)

23 replies
  • SEO
  • |
I have studied seo, web design, and marketing for several years,
but I do not have any seo clients to date.

I met a guy who wraps cars in vinyl to make them like a sign board
and also makes vinyl sign banners. He told me he wants to make vinyl
banner business take off by getting his site on page 1 of Google.
Vinyl banners has 1,450,000 listings and "vinyl banners" has 371,000.
and 11 pages of ppc ads.

I was asked to figure up how much it would cost to get on p1 of Google.

I said I don't know if it is possible, but I would figure it out and call back.

1. Do you think it is possible?
2. How much would you charge?
3. Would you make any guarantees?

I watched Justin Brooke's video about getting several listings on p1 of
Google and it was great, but as I believe Justin said it has to be much less than 371,000 listings to work well, plus Justin is talking about long tial keyword listing, not two very popular words, correct?

Thanks,

Jim
#calling #experts #keywords #popular #seo
  • Profile picture of the author Lou Diamond
    Hello,
    I would start by getting him listed number one in his state and the area where he does
    the most business.
    I do this all the time and it does get the client new customers.
    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan6
    Here in the UK for that phrase, www.bannerforall.co.uk was the top listing and they have a PR of 2 and around 17,000 backlinks in Yahoo. If you targeted the UK market then you would simply have to improve on these stats, which wouldn't be too difficult. For (.com), www.esigns.com/vinyl-banners have 6300 backlinks in Yahoo and a PR of 5. Again, not too difficult, take a look in Alexa where their major links are coming from and start building.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    Thanks Guys for the quick responses.

    One thing I left out. He spent upward to $4000 a month on ppc.
    If I qoute the job I have to have paticulars like

    I can get you on the first page for xxxx dollars, and for xxx dollars I guarantee it.

    He told me he was paying up to $2 a click with little results.

    I'm thinking it may be best to move on or try to perform
    some other tasks for his two websites.

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Ellenwood
    Hey Jim,

    I'll give you a quote and then you can add to it for a profit. PM me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Brite
    You could look at the google maps local search to start with for his area.

    That would give him some immediate results and is fairly quick to do.

    Then getting his site to the top of google for those keyphrases would become kinda expensive.

    I would work on a monthly basis and each month you would improve the ranking's and then after it reaches the top spot work out a much lower rate for you to keep it their for him also also look at making some more traffic to the site.

    Tom Brite
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    PM you Don.

    Thanks Tom. You are so right. There are many things I suggested like vinylbannerkansscity.com etc. pick ten major cities and seo each site for longtail.

    I posted this same thread at several differnt forums and am happy with the responses so far.

    What if I were to get him 1000 back links a month for $200 a month?

    How many backlinks do the leaders have?

    I know there is an easy way to detect it, but how escapes me for now.

    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Brite
      Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

      PM you Don.

      Thanks Tom. You are so right. There are many things I suggested like vinylbannerkansscity.com etc. pick ten major cities and seo each site for longtail.

      I posted this same thread at several differnt forums and am happy with the responses so far.

      What if I were to get him 1000 back links a month for $200 a month?

      How many backlinks do the leaders have?

      I know there is an easy way to detect it, but how escapes me for now.

      Jim
      Jim i think you mis-understood!

      You can add businesses to google maps and have keyphrases in the title part and that listing automatically becomes the top search result for that keyphrase for the local searches... so in this case "vinyl banners area" etc

      But you could also do your own idea and create separate interlinking sites that will each be optimized for one keyphrase.

      Now also your pricing is completely wrong. You have already found out that he is paying $4000 a month on PPC and so he is prepared to pay whatever it takes to get the business. Plus if you are getting his site to the top of google then he wont be spending anything or at least half as much on PPC as he was before.

      You should be looking more at $1000 to $5000 a month for 2 to 3 months so that in that time his site is at the top of google, plus i would suggest you create some more traffic to feed into his site too so that there are results during the first 3 months. Then after those 3 months charge just $500 a month to keep him at the top of google and also create even more traffic streams.

      You could even do some quick learning about PPC and manage his campaigns for him either for an extra fee or included in the monthly costs. Im sure there are some easily changinble settings so that he isn't spending $4000 or $2 a click and not making as much as he should.

      Even adding an autoresponder and email capture form for potential clients would be great and mean that any promotions he wants to run can easily be sent out to everyone that was/is interested.

      You gotta package all this up and give him a monthly price. Stop going for forum pricing and go for the pricing based on what he will get from it.

      Tom Brite
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      • What Tom Brite just said. Don't sell yourself short AND

        don't guarantee instant results. Sometimes it takes a while, as many on here know.

        I have pages beating out newsweek and msnbc and the like with upwards of ten million competing pages. In fact, I have the top two spots on this one with 10.7 million competitors

        survive unemployment - Google Search

        It took me a couple months to get there, though.

        I do think it's entirely achievable. Beating out 1.4 million pages is not difficult -- it just takes work and the right tools. Invest in WebCEO. (I would post a link but don't want to be spammy... aw, heck, I need the money. Go through the banner on the left side of this page if you want to help me out for the info... Charles Linart | drupal, linux, and all things nerdy ) Try the free demo.

        (Apologies to anyone who found that spammy.)
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizstrategies
    I would suggest multiple methods as well, hit it from several angels. Press Release, Video, Email (if you have a list), Blog posts(related sites), SEO and PPC.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Diamond
      Hold on a second! I think there's a giant red flag here. You said that he's spending $4000/month on PPC and paying up to $2/click with little results.

      Say he's averaging $1.75/click. That means he's buying nearly 2300 targeted clicks every month. That should be yielding more than "little results."

      How many more clicks does he expect to gain by achieving number one position on the SERPs? These things are notoriously hard to calculate, but I've done a back-of-the-envelope calculation based on 30,000 - 40,000 searches per month in the U.S. for a broad match on the phrase "vinyl banners." Say it's 35,000. The number one position is thought to be good for about a 25% click-through. That's 8750 clicks, or right around four times as many as he's buying now. If he were to get stuck at number two in the results, it would be much closer to the current number of clicks. The click-throughs drop off steeply after number one.

      So if he's getting "little results" with 2300 clicks, how is multiplying that by four (which is the best case scenario) going to improve things by much?

      When I hear of this kind of situation, I immediately think that work on improving the site's conversion rate will pay off far better than getting more clicks. Bringing more traffic to a poorly converting site is just an exercise in frustration.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Diamond
        (Further considerations since my previous post.)

        Another factor has a major impact on both conversions and SEO: how targeted is the traffic in terms of buying intention? According to the Microsoft Commercial Intention tool (which is experimental), the search phrase "vinyl banners" indicates a 93% commercial intention. That's extraordinarily high. I'm not so sure, especially as they rate "buy vinyl banners" at 93% also. I think this is likely to represent a glitch in their algorithm due to low search volume.

        Intuitively, one would think that more specific phrases like "trade show banners," "school banners," "wedding banners," "advertising banners," and others that could easily be uncovered with some keyword research would indicate a higher level of buying intention.

        What I'm trying to say is that SEO aimed at ranking for search phrases associated with high buying intention is one excellent way to increase conversion rate. It's very possible that the "little results" achieved in the PPC campaign were partly due to too broad a targeting and not enough concentration on buying phrases.

        Indeed PPC is a great way to test the conversion rate of different search phrases. Just make sure to track each keyword all the way to the sale, and you'll have excellent data to apply to a tightly targeted SEO project.

        All of this needs to be tested rigorously. Don't assume that because the client thinks he knows what he wants (top ranking on "vinyl banners") that that's really the optimum plan for increasing his business. If you can show him why there may be more effective plans, and show him how you would approach uncovering the most effective plans, you'll be way ahead of the run-of-the-mill SEO consultant.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author jakesellers
        Originally Posted by Steve Diamond View Post

        Hold on a second! I think there's a giant red flag here. You said that he's spending $4000/month on PPC and paying up to $2/click with little results.

        [excellent analysis removed]

        So if he's getting "little results" with 2300 clicks, how is multiplying that by four (which is the best case scenario) going to improve things by much?

        When I hear of this kind of situation, I immediately think that work on improving the site's conversion rate will pay off far better than getting more clicks. Bringing more traffic to a poorly converting site is just an exercise in frustration.
        Steve is right on the money. I don't get how the notion of organic search being the best way to turn a website into cash for a traditional business got any traction, I assume it's word-of-mouth "I'm #1 in Google for whatever and I get tons of traffic" or astroturfing by SEO'ers. If you can't achieve ROI with paid clicks and a lander optimized for conversions, not SEO, how can you expect to achieve ROI with lower-quality clicks and a site optimized for SEO, not conversions?
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        • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
          You have a great potential client here ... theyre willing to spend $$$

          1. Keyword research for add'l long tails you can easily capitalize on

          2. Divert some of their existing budget to organic methods

          3. Increase exisitng spend to include new organic methods

          4. Create a video based lead capture page with a FREEmium giveaway - get more prosopects on a list.
          - FREEmium - 10 Deadly Sins most people nake when buying Vinyl Banners

          5. Site needs to be optimized for SEO and conversions - dats a lot o clicks and not enough conversion.

          6. 1,000 backlinks for $200 month ??? crazy talk! $ .20 each?

          7. Inject email marketing and listbuilding into their marketing mix for a fee too

          8. Get them writing articles or get them done ...

          9. Develop a written game plan with goals and dates ... asking them to commit to $1,000 a month for 6 months ... as long as the dates and time lines / goals are being met

          10. Be sure to add local GEO Search to that plan .. easy first steps of value.

          11. As organic traffic overtakes the PPC - negotiate a solid "performance based" fee for you for allowing them to scale back or eliminate their PPC ad Spends

          12. Entrepreneurs like performance based pricing - so you have some skin in hte game towards mutual success ... most abhor hourly wage mentality contractors ... "You want my $$$ put your ass on the line a little bit too ... You perform ... I pay more - simple"

          13. Get it in writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    Thanks everyone, this is really helping me out.

    Say it was your prospect; knowing what you know, what's it's going to cost this guy to solve his problem upfront and monthly?

    What do you think it's worth?

    11 pages of ppc ads.

    and you say you can get him on the first page of Google but it's going to cost xxx and take how long?

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

    I met a guy who wraps cars in vinyl to make them like a sign board and also makes vinyl sign banners. He told me he wants to make vinyl banner business take off by getting his site on page 1 of Google. Vinyl banners has 1,450,000 listings and "vinyl banners" has 371,000. and 11 pages of ppc ads.
    Jim:

    Those page counts mean nothing. The highest number of "listings" for a keyword phrase is going to be 1,000. You must focus solely on the front page of Google. That means 10 competitors, not a million and a half or four hundred thousand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    I went and looked and I see a number of beatable sites on the top ten for vinyl banners. Even more on some narrower searches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    I think you are right Steve.

    I should have drilled down and explored his ppc results.

    He actually said, $5000 I think, but I lowered it to $4000 because I was not sure. I jjust remember him telling me he told his partner, "what if we doubled our daily budget.

    Maybe I should call hkm back and get the actual figures.

    What questions do you think I should I ask him?

    Also, good observation Steven.

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    I just now read your second post Steve and that is really sound advice. I could really wow this guy with all of the great keywords we have come up with besides "vinyl banners", but he could also say he wants to think about it and hire someone else to use all of our great ideas.

    How do you convey you have all these ideas, without telling him what they are?

    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Use phrases like ... my team and i have discovered 17 additional keywords that generate X amount of monthly traffic that have x amount of competition, and we feel we could capitalize on those almost immediately all while working towards the "motherload" keyword ....

      "Well what are those ...? "

      Your answer ... My job security. Or ... "I could tell you - but Id have to make you hire me."

      Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

      I just now read your second post Steve and that is really sound advice. I could really wow this guy with all of the great keywords we have come up with besides "vinyl banners", but he could also say he wants to think about it and hire someone else to use all of our great ideas.

      How do you convey you have all these ideas, without telling him what they are?

      Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    I took what 4morereferals posted and made it into a proposal.

    I have not seen other peoples proposals and therefore have no idea what you experts do, but here is the one I am going to show them on 7-20-09

    ImproveOnlineSales.com
    10260 Benson St. Suite 1
    Overland Park, KS 66212
    913-220-2149


    July 15, 2009

    Dear James and Matt,

    From what I can determine, you have a tremendous future with your Vinyl Banners business.

    If you decide to hire me, I will do the following tasks to help explode your profits:

    1. I will do keyword research for additional long tail keywords we can easily capitalize on.

    2. Divert some of your existing advertising budget into several organic methods.

    3. Increase your existing advertising budget (if possible) to include new organic methods

    4. Create a video based lead capture page with a FREEmium giveaway - get more prospects on a list.
    - FREEmium - 10 Deadly Sins most people make when buying Vinyl Banners

    5. Optimize your site for SEO AND conversions - you're getting lots of clicks and few conversions.

    6. Inject email marketing and list building into your marketing mix.

    8. Write 10 articles a month and distribute them via the web.

    9. Issue press releases every month for anything we can think of and distribute them via the web.

    10. Create a written game plan with goals and dates (you really need to commit to a minimum investment of $1,000 a month for 6 months ... as long as the dates and time lines / goals are being met.

    10. Add local geographical Search to your website for all the keywords.

    11. As organic traffic overtakes the PPC traffic we can negotiate a solid "performance based" fee for allowing you to scale back or eliminate your PPC ad costs.

    I can take on two more clients at this time and would love for you to be one of them.

    What would you like to do next?

    Jim Stiner
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    • Profile picture of the author DesireWealth2
      I am a budding SEO expert and one over looked item is video marketing. Using free tools like Animoto to create videos and using services like Traffic Geyeser or Comment Buzz to load them up you can circumvent some of your article marketing.

      Since anyone can create a short Animoto video with a few pictures and powerpoint slides and load up to YouTube and a few other sites. then also send the audio to podcast sites, you get quick ranking on page one for terms that are under 500k in short order. You are posting to high ranking Video sites so you get that link love.

      That has been my experience for my clients that are in difficult markets that we would not be able to crack under normal circumstances.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by DesireWealth2 View Post

        I am a budding SEO expert and one over looked item is video marketing. Using free tools like Animoto to create videos and using services like Traffic Geyeser or Comment Buzz to load them up you can circumvent some of your article marketing.

        Since anyone can create a short Animoto video with a few pictures and powerpoint slides and load up to YouTube and a few other sites. then also send the audio to podcast sites, you get quick ranking on page one for terms that are under 500k in short order. You are posting to high ranking Video sites so you get that link love.
        You do realize that it is a clear violation of Animoto's TOS to use their free videos for commercial purposes, correct?
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