PBN Question For SEO Experts

26 replies
  • SEO
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Hi All,

I was wondering if any of you experts could recommend a service that will either build PBN's, sell quality PBN links or both?

I looked at a highly recommended PBN service that someone from here recommended as the "go to" guy for building and selling PBN's, but I noticed that the domains don't include content. Is this the norm?

Also, how many links is the average PBN good for? I mean, how many links per page would you recommend linking out from without it being overkill?

I've been watching videos on domain research, checking for spammy links, using Majestic, etc and my head is swimming. I'd appreciate any solid advice.

Thanks in advance.

Joe
#experts #pbn #question #seo
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    I do not think you will ever find such a service that is any good. The problem is that to build a network for someone and make some money on top of it will cost more than people who are looking for this sort of service are willing to pay.

    I did one of 6 sites for someone recently. It was $2,000. That was for finding, purchasing, and registering the domains, setting up hosting, and setting up the sites with content, custom graphics, etc.

    Too many people think they should be able to get 6 network sites, all setup, and with top quality content for like $300.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      I do not think you will ever find such a service that is any good. The problem is that to build a network for someone and make some money on top of it will cost more than people who are looking for this sort of service are willing to pay.

      I did one of 6 sites for someone recently. It was $2,000. That was for finding, purchasing, and registering the domains, setting up hosting, and setting up the sites with content, custom graphics, etc.

      Too many people think they should be able to get 6 network sites, all setup, and with top quality content for like $300.
      Ouch! I can appreciate the reasoning behind the cost. I guess I'll have to study the videos a bit more and try to make sense of it. I'm not quite ready to pay $2,000 yet, though I'm certain it would be worth it if you did it.

      Thanks for your answer, Mike. Much appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
        Hi Joe,

        Getting people to build a PBN for you is expensive, particularly if you are building a lot of them.

        You can do it yourself quite easily. I'll give you a brief rundown.

        1. You can buy domains from brokers or auction sites but you are paying a premium price for that.

        2. You can scrape expired domains with Scrapebox for free and register them by hand yourself. It's quite easy and I find I get at least 50 domains with a minimum PR of 3 in about 1 hour.

        3. You don't want to spend a fortune on hosting them and $1 hosting sites are great but they can disappear overnight and remembering all the admin details is a bit of a pain. You can use a company like nonameinternet for hosting your domains. There charges are about $10 per month for 10 domains.

        They use cheap hosting companies on your behalf from all over the world with different A Class IP's. You get to choose which locations as well, so u don't leave a footprint. So basically, you have one username, one password and one payment. Pretty easy.

        4. With content, you can either have a single page with only one outbound link embedded in relevant content, or you can go the whole hog and build out an 'authority' style blog. It's up to you.

        5. I recommend having your money site links in different places like, images, footers etc. Personally, I use PBN's as a tier 2 pointing to a tier 1 of web 2.0 type sites. It's harder to get discovered and you have a buffer between you and the PBN. Again, it's a personal choice.

        6. You can conceal the PBN by using spyder spanker (paid) or link privacy (free).


        I know it seems complicated to someone who is new to it, but it's very cost effective and really not that difficult.

        I will be happy to help you out if you have any questions.
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        • Profile picture of the author ilaunch
          Hi,
          Can you explain how you use scrapebox to find PR 3 domains.
          Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by ilaunch View Post

            Hi,
            Can you explain how you use scrapebox to find PR 3 domains.
            Thanks.
            You do realize that PageRank has not been updated in almost 2 years now, right?
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            • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              You do realize that PageRank has not been updated in almost 2 years now, right?
              You are quite right Mike, it's been a long time since they did a public update, but they update it in house, all day every day.

              Page rank is still the backbone of their algorithm and it's the accumulative indicator of all their ranking factors.

              If I find an expired domain that has a PR5 linking to it, it's almost certain to be a PR3 even though it wont actually show a PR of 3. I do of course need to verify the the PR5 site actually has a lot of strong links to verify that and in the vast majority of cases they do.

              Using the metrics of Ahrefs and the like is very risky. They don't have any way of measuring quality, only the number of unique links and it's childs play to manipulate their metrics.

              Yes, PR isn't updated publicly Mike but it's what Google still uses today and that's good enough for me.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by zimmerseo View Post

                You are quite right Mike, it's been a long time since they did a public update, but they update it in house, all day every day.

                Page rank is still the backbone of their algorithm and it's the accumulative indicator of all their ranking factors.

                If I find an expired domain that has a PR5 linking to it, it's almost certain to be a PR3 even though it wont actually show a PR of 3. I do of course need to verify the the PR5 site actually has a lot of strong links to verify that and in the vast majority of cases they do.

                Using the metrics of Ahrefs and the like is very risky. They don't have any way of measuring quality, only the number of unique links and it's childs play to manipulate their metrics.

                Yes, PR isn't updated publicly Mike but it's what Google still uses today and that's good enough for me.
                Yes, I know Google updates PR daily... Hell, probably in real-time. The problem is, when you see a site "has a PR 5", as you put it, you do not actually know if it does have a PR of 5 or not.

                You can look at links, but it is still a guess at best. You can look at 3rd party metrics, but they will become less and less accurate as we get further away from a PR update. When PR was updated regularly, the developer of those metrics could use that to tell how closely their metrics coincide with how Google felt about a page.

                Making any significant decisions based on PR at this point is a crap shoot at best.
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                • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
                  Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                  Making any significant decisions based on PR at this point is a crap shoot at best.
                  It's a bit more accurate than a crap shoot, but is there a more accurate set of metrics out there Mike?
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                    Originally Posted by zimmerseo View Post

                    It's a bit more accurate than a crap shoot, but is there a more accurate set of metrics out there Mike?
                    A combination of all the metrics out there would be more accurate. Investigating the actual links is more accurate.

                    PR has not been updated in almost 2 years now. It's a guess at best at this point.
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      • Profile picture of the author deezn
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        Ouch! I can appreciate the reasoning behind the cost. I guess I'll have to study the videos a bit more and try to make sense of it. I'm not quite ready to pay $2,000 yet, though I'm certain it would be worth it if you did it.

        Thanks for your answer, Mike. Much appreciated.
        Buy Mike's course, build them yourselves. Set them up right and stay under the radar of google. Join a Public Blog Network and you have a higher chance of getting caught.

        Just one day of watching Mike's videos (I did learn from reading here and buying Mike Anthony's old course) and I was off and buying domains. Buying domains is the easy part. Building it out is a little harder but doable.
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        • Profile picture of the author John34
          Originally Posted by deezn View Post

          Buy Mike's course, build them yourselves. Set them up right and stay under the radar of google. Join a Public Blog Network and you have a higher chance of getting caught.

          Just one day of watching Mike's videos (I did learn from reading here and buying Mike Anthony's old course) and I was off and buying domains. Buying domains is the easy part. Building it out is a little harder but doable.
          Do you have link to Mike's course?
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      • Profile picture of the author dewalds86
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

        Ouch! I can appreciate the reasoning behind the cost. I guess I'll have to study the videos a bit more and try to make sense of it. I'm not quite ready to pay $2,000 yet, though I'm certain it would be worth it if you did it.

        Thanks for your answer, Mike. Much appreciated.
        Trust me it will not be worth it. Google algorithm updates are their to stop web spam. Public Blog Networks, link wheels and links triangles are all black hat SEO techniques to create web spam in order to boost your money site.

        It is by far better to build a few quality links from relevant sites than it is to buy spammy links. It will only hurt your SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
    Originally Posted by secretzzz

    Hi Zimmer SEO

    I just saw your post reply...and i am just wondering how you use scrapebox to find expired domains?

    I usually go through auction sites like godaddy.com, arent these good enough?

    Thanks
    Andrew
    Hi Andrew,

    I'd prefer to give the answer publicly as it might benefit other users who have similar questions if thats ok.

    In answer to your question about buying domains from auction sites like Godaddy, there is nothing wrong with that. I looked at buying them that way initially but found I had to wade through so much garbage before I found anything remotely good enough for a PBN. On top of that, you are competing against thousands of others and the domains are over priced as a result.

    With Scrapebox, you can target very specific niches and find domains that naturally lapsed and were never re-registered. Because of this, i've found the domains I scrape are usually very clean from a spam perspective and can have some very decent link profiles.

    Scrapebox
    The latest version of Scrapebox is insanely quick and I like to use good proxies for this, as I will be scraping tens of thousands of URL’s in a matter of minutes.

    I get mine from Buy Proxies, simply because their proxies are reliable, cheap and fast. I’ve found their tech support to be very good. I usually use about 30 proxies. Shared ones are good enough.

    If you tell them what software you are using them for, they will format them correctly putting your username and password in the right places to save you time. I crank up Scrapebox and insert my proxies into the “search engines and proxies” panel through the load button.

    I then test them through the manage button and make sure they are all working correctly. Now I insert my custom Google search engine. What this does, is allow me to scrape Google for domains from specific country extensions and specific dates.

    ***********CUSTOM GOOGLE ENGINE**************

    THIS IS A LIST OF EXAMPLE CUSTOM ENGINES---TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER GOOGLE CC TLD, JUST CHANGE IT AT THE VERY BEGINNING
    TO CHANGE THE DATE RANGES, CHANGE THE FIGURES TOWARDS THE END FOR EXAMPLE.SEARCH YERAS 2000 TO 2008 'F2000%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2008' CAN BE CHANGED TO SEARCH YEARS 2008 TO 2015 'F2008%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2015'
    TO GET RESULTS ONLY FROM DOMAINS HOSTED IN A PARTICULAR COUNTRY, CHANGE THIS FROM UNITED KINGDOM TO WHATEVER COUNTRY CODE YOU LIKE. ',ctr:countryUK%7CcountryGB&cr=countryUK%7Ccountry GB'

    ***CUSTOM USA ENGINE***
    http://www.google.com/search?complete=0&hl=en&q={KEYWORD}&num=100&start= {PAGENUM}&filter=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01% 2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2008&tbm=

    ***SEARCHES FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM***
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?complete=0&hl=en&q={KEYWORD}&num=100&start= {PAGENUM}&filter=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01% 2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2008

    ***ONLY DOMAINS HOSTED IN THE UNITED KINGDOM***
    http://www.google.com/search?complete=0&hl=en&q={KEYWORD}&num=100&start= {PAGENUM}&filter=0&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:01/01/2000,cd_max:01/01/2008,ctr:countryUK%7CcountryGB&cr=countryUK%7Ccoun tryGB


    ***SEARCHES FROM AUSTRALIA***
    http://www.google.com.au/search?complete=0&hl=en&q={KEYWORD}&num=100&start= {PAGENUM}&filter=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01% 2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2008


    ***ONLY DOMAINS HOSTED IN AUSTRALIA***
    http://www.google.com.au/search?complete=0&hl=en&q={KEYWORD}&num=100&start= {PAGENUM}&filter=0&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01% 2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A01%2F01%2F2008,ctr:countryAU&cr= countryAU



    So say I wanted to scrape Google for domains that existed in Italy or Canada between 2000 and 2005 and I wanted my search location to be in Germany, I simply alter the parameters in the engine. It’s very easy.

    To install the custom Google engine, I simply go to settings–> Harvester Engine Configuration–> and select import. I browse for the custom engine, click select, then apply, followed by update.

    Another way is to click on the standard Google engine, replace the query string with my custom engine, change the display name to anything you like, and click “add as new engine” followed by update.

    You can change the engine location, search dates and search location in the “query string” to whatever you like. I have it set to Google.com 2000-2008. Now I just need to load the footprints. This will basically go out and look for any domain with links, resources, bookmarks etc. in the domains URL and pull them in.

    Then I add my merge list. This is just a list of keywords that are appended to my footprint, so it brings back more targeted domains. Now I click the start harvesting button and sit back for a minute or two as it scrapes Google for my URL’s. When the harvester has finished, I remove any duplicate URL’s and check the remaining domains for page rank.

    When that’s finished, I remove all URL’s with a page rank of five or less. Then I filter out all domains with a .gov or .edu extensions. Click “Export URL List” under manage lists and save the file. The reason I remove the .gov and .edu domains is because 99% of the time they link out to other .gov and .edu domains and it’s simply not worth the effort looking through them.

    Now I have two options… I can use the free scrapebox addon, “broken links checker” which will scan each page and look for broken links, or I can manually examine each PR5 page with a broken links checker extension for chrome like check my links.

    The reason I filter out all domains with a PR of 5 or less, is because a PR of 5 gives my PBN site an instant PR of 3, which is a pretty decent PBN link.

    Using, Scrapebox I import all my PR5 pages into the ‘broken links’ checker and click ‘start’. It then scans every page initially for links and then rescans for 404 pages.

    When it’s finished, I save all the broken links to a file. Now I import that file back into Scrapebox, trim them all to root and remove all sub-domains.

    The next step is to see which of these broken links are actually available domains. I head over to Dynadot and I paste the domains from my new list, up to 1,000 at a time. I click the radio button “I have entered fully qualified domains” and click search. All available domains will be highlighted in green and I collect all the URL’s and save them into a third file.

    So now I have quite a large list of domains that can be bought for the price of a registration. Now I need to weed out the wheat from the chaff.

    Traditionally, people would use Majestic SEO, Ahrefs and Moz to look for authority, trust etc. I don’t use any of these quality metrics, simply because they are meaningless in terms of ranking in Google.

    Don’t get me wrong, they are great for checking backlinks, but that’s as far as I go with them.

    My preferred method is by examining the backlinks. This is the most accurate method as it’s the same one Google uses. Each site should only take a minute or two. The first thing I need to confirm is that it indeed, has a PR5 pointing to it.

    Any additional links are a bonus. You can use any tool you like to check the backlinks, but probably the best are a combination of the above tools. For some reason, MOZ Explorer rarely finds any backlinks.

    I check both the http://www. version and the http:// version. Redirect the version with the least backlinks to the version with the most when I register the domain. If one version has none, that don’t I bother with the redirect.

    I’m pretty sure I don’t need to tell you to avoid domains with porn links, gambling links etc. I’m looking for domains with a few links that I would expect to see pointing to a legitimate website.

    If you have followed this tutorial, you should now have 50+ minimum PR3 niche specific PBN sites.

    Hosting Your New Domains

    Having all my PBN domains with the same host can seriously devalue the power of my PBN. Google will accept a couple of links from the same host but will disregard others. Much like Google devalues multiple links from the same domain.

    Ideally, what I want are my websites hosted on completely different servers, belonging to different hosting companies. Traditionally, this meant going out to low-cost hosting companies, opening accounts, paying a year in advance, etc.

    Then I would have to try and manage them all. Imagine trying to manage 300 domains, all from different hosting companies, different log in’s, passwords etc. Budget hosting companies have a habit of disappearing overnight along with your PBN site, leaving a gaping hole in your network. If you fancy having bulging eyes and bald patches on your head from days of pulling your hair out, be my guest and do it the hard way.

    The best solution I have found and thus far, works very well is using a company like Nonameinternet. Instead of you having to manage all those domains, you simply create one account with these guys and all your sites are in one dashboard, with one simple payment to one company. They are not an SEO hosting company.

    They don’t own the servers. They simply offer you an interface that allows you to manage all your websites from different servers in one place. The websites will be hosted by different companies, in different countries (if you like) with completely different IP’s at a very low cost. They have over 100 locations for you to choose from and you can pick any locations.

    Their prices start at $10 per month for 5 PBN's which is pretty decent.


    I like to add my PBN sites to Uptime Robot as they will let me know if any of my sites are down for a specified amount of time. It’s a free service (so far) and is a useful tool.

    How To Add Content And Make Your PBN Relevant

    As I mentioned earlier, the key to a PBN is to make it relevant to your niche. I’ve seen a lot of PBN’s over time built by other people and something most of them do, (or fail to do) means they leave a lot of potential juice on the table which could be used to power up their PBN.

    They buy the domain, put back the original content and have one link in the body of the root domain, with no inner content. That’s fine if you are only interested in PR, but without relevance, it’s a much weaker link. If your money sits is about payday loans and the PBN site is about outboard engines, it’s not relevant. Relevancy is so important in a PBN.

    One relevant page on a PBN is worth many irrelevant pages. Completely changing the content of a website makes no difference to Google. It indexes what it finds. You can change the website name, description and content to make it relevant without any worries. Add a page of completely original content to the main landing page with 6-10 inner pages of original or spun content.

    If your objective is to try and rank your PBN's which is always a good idea, use original content. If you just want to piggy back on the PR, spun content from article builder will do provided it's relevant.

    You can use spun content, but original readable content is always better. Writing original content isn’t as hard as you might think. It takes me about 5 minutes to create a 300-500 word page with 100% original and relevant content with Dragon Dictate. I simply find a 300-500 word article online and read it out loud in my own words and that’s it.

    Dragon dictate listens to my voice and simply types the words, creates paragraphs, punctuations etc. I simply copy and paste the finished text and I’m done. You can get a decent Koss headset on Amazon for a bit over $20 here. As I mentioned, Google looks at relevance in two ways. The content on the site and the content on the sites holding inbound links.

    Now that I have added content to the PBN domain, I need to create additional links from other sites to the PBN to swing the niche signals in my favour. If the PBN site has 10 inbound links, I create 50. You can use any link building tools to do this, like Ultimate Demon, Senuke or Rankwyz. I prefer Senuke as I can set the whole thing on autopilot and it will build links to my tiers indefinitely.

    It’s expensive, yes but like anything, you pay for what you get and the features available in Senuke are worth it. If thats not within your budget, Rankwyz is perfect as it build out web 2.0 sites. In addition, I make sure I build links to the original PR5 site, the PBN site as well as the tier-1 site. I make sure I spread it over 50 days as link velocity is very important.

    I usually create about 1 link a day and keep on doing it, but a bare minimum of 5 times any existing links will do the trick. I also add a plugin to redirect all inbound links to other pages on my PBN site that no longer exist, like Backlinks Saver.


    Sorry if this post is a bit long but it's a cut and paste from a blog post of mine and I haven't inserted any images. There are many methods of finding expired domains, this is just one that I like to use, so play with it and improve it if you can.

    If you have any questions about it, I would be pleased to answer them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bguild
    Hi ZimmerSEO,

    Great post. I have a couple of questions:

    Do you change the domain registrar information from domain to domain ie. change the whois?

    Do you register the domains with the same company?

    Can you purchase the domains and then transfer them to nonameinternet?

    Many thanks,

    B
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    • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
      Originally Posted by Bguild View Post

      Hi ZimmerSEO,

      Great post. I have a couple of questions:

      Do you change the domain registrar information from domain to domain ie. change the whois?

      Do you register the domains with the same company?

      Can you purchase the domains and then transfer them to nonameinternet?

      Many thanks,

      B
      WHOIS Protection
      When you buy your new domain, you have to register it. Many site registration companies offer free whois protection, if they don't, you can just use a fake name. Again, I'm assuming you believe that the same details will create a footprint.

      Registering Domains
      This is a matter of personal choice and how much you believe footprints can be created by registering with the same company.

      I use a handful of registrars myself, for convenience. It just saves time, once you know your way around a registrars website. I don't believe it creates a footprint. I can't be blamed if a bunch of sites from GoDaddy decide to link to me. They hold millions of sites, so the chances are it will happen naturally.

      Having said that, you can register your domain anywhere, and simply change the DNS settings to point to your new host. If you like, you can also redirect some of your sites through cloudflare afterwards for that extra bit of security.

      It's no harm to mix things up a bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Here's a few misc. tips.


    Study "hilltop". It's an old Google concept that is likely still in effect. Basically, Hilltop is the concept of two sites being related, or "affiliated" as Google calls them, in some way. A link from a site to another site owned by the same person would have less value than a similar link from a totally unaffiliated site.


    One example is using affiliate links that include some type of unique identification. Don't use affiliate links on a PBN that you've used on any other site.


    When trying to find cheap hosts, my experience has been that over 50% of them don't even work when you first order them. You don't get your login details or there are other issues. Finding reliable cheap hosts is a major pain.


    I've tried to start a "hosting exchange" group in the past, but it didn't work for various reasons. However, if you can exchange hosting with a friend or two that you know and trust that have reseller accounts, it can save you a bit of a hassle and money.
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    • Profile picture of the author zimmerseo
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      One example is using affiliate links that include some type of unique identification. Don't use affiliate links on a PBN that you've used on any other site.
      An interesting point about affiliate links. If there was any kind of algorithm for PBN's it might be an obvious feature to add to it.

      Personally, I don't add affiliate links to PBN's but I would imagine a redirect with a nofollow tag would deal with that. A manual review on the other hand would pick that up.

      It all boils down to the #1 rule in PBN's. NO footprints of any kind.
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  • Profile picture of the author tbtb123
    It's better to take services that specialize on specific things. For instance, our service specializes in SEO domains, no other service (especially if it also offers many other services) can offer you the same quality.
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    » Number 1 Source of High Quality SEO Domains! «
    100% Spam Free Domains! Without Manipulations! With Natural High PR Backlinks! Ideal For PBNs!
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  • Profile picture of the author k.freddy
    PBNs do not come with content. You need to create your own content in most cases.

    We do provide inexpensive PBN hosting as well as research with registration. It only depends what niche you are in and what is the level of your competition.
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    •$1 PBN Hosting•:*¨¨*:•BluSEO•:*¨¨*:•Get PBN Domains•

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  • Profile picture of the author SENukeVPS
    How hard could it really be though to conceal your information by building the pbn? if your trying to do everything on a budget, which is very likely, yes it will be difficult but anything seo related will be difficult in my opinion. there are plenty of tools to help you but yes diversification is literally the best approach for a natural link profile
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  • Profile picture of the author Piree
    So using the same adsense on PBN will leave a footprint behind I assume? What about using bitly or other url shorteners for amazon or other affiliates?
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  • Profile picture of the author sonjay
    Fightback is still a great option.
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  • Profile picture of the author dewalds86
    Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

    Hi All,

    I was wondering if any of you experts could recommend a service that will either build PBN's, sell quality PBN links or both?

    I looked at a highly recommended PBN service that someone from here recommended as the "go to" guy for building and selling PBN's, but I noticed that the domains don't include content. Is this the norm?

    Also, how many links is the average PBN good for? I mean, how many links per page would you recommend linking out from without it being overkill?

    I've been watching videos on domain research, checking for spammy links, using Majestic, etc and my head is swimming. I'd appreciate any solid advice.

    Thanks in advance.

    Joe
    Buying links and building PBN will only hurt your SEO. I cannot believe that people are still buying links. Focus on making the content on your site awesome. Share that content as regularly as you can on social media and find blogs relevant to your website and leave valuable comments there.
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