How Much Is SEO Really Helping You?

by robvegas626

Posted: 17 years ago 28 replies

Hi fellow warriors. I've read a million great posts here and now I want to pose a question that will hopefully generate some discussion.

I've been in the dating niche for several years (dating and "how to pick up women" advice for men). I have created a line of popular products and my brand is one of the better-known ones in the industry.

About a year ago, I moved to a third-world tropical paradise and actually live the lifestyle that we're all told we can achieve through buying IM products. (I'm certainly not rich by Western standards, but with my laptop and a lot of hard work and IM, I can live quite well over here.)

On to my question. Living here, I have the benefit of being able to hire local assistants (for next to no money), who I train on SEO. I've had them try many of the methods I see promoted in SEO books, and I've invested in numerous programs -- automated book-marking software, article submission software, Traffic Geyser (for video submissions), etc.

But frankly, I just don't see a whole lot of tangible results from these methods. How can it be that my number of backlinks remains virtually the same, after months of using Traffic Geyser to distribute dozens of videos to dozens of sites, and using ArticleMarketingAutomation.com to send out tons of my articles to tons of sites?

Now I'm giving SE Nuke a try. (Yet another program that promises to help you DOMINATE the rankings.) Again, I'm seeing a program that legitimately does submit your articles and videos to a million places, but I'm not seeing how it actually affects your rankings and traffic.

As for what DOES work...Digg, in my experience, is the only book-marking site where I can see fast, legit results in my rankings when I use it. I've got social book-marking software that book-marks you on 50 different sites, but I don't see how it helps any.

As far as article submissions, I've seen a handful of article directories that DO get me rankings (when the article is submitted manually). Otherwise, I feel like my articles are being into a black hole, never to be seen again.

IIf you were in my situation, and could have a team of assistants to work on SEO and it would cost you very little money...and they could handle your SEO efforts all day...what would you have them focus on?

I really appreciate your feedback. I'm in the interesting position of actually living in a country where much of the outsourcing is done to, and I've been trying everything. I'm not complaining -- sales come in every day -- but SEO is starting to feel like I'm spinning my wheels. One of my IM friends keeps telling me that SEO is generally a waste of time and that my time is best spent trying to recruit affiliates to market my products.

Thoughts...?

- Dean

#dating #dating niche #helping #seo

Brad Gosse

17 years ago

New stuff goes to the top then re-ranks lower quickly. It's the new way.

We do all SEO work without applications. Real old world elbow grease.

I have some great positions that pay very well as do my clients.

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robvegas626

17 years ago

Brad, thanks for your reply. I am all about rolling up my sleeves and getting it done myself, which does appear to be necessary despite the endless IM programs that promise to completely automate everything and "dominate" Google.

I guess my question is, the new "hot" thing in SEO is outsourcing. Preferably, to the Philippines (since they speak English.) Well, I live in the Philippines now. I know the people and the culture and I've taught SEO to them. I have assistants and access to 50 (or 500!) more assistants, if I want to hire them.

But ultimately, what good does this "mass approach" towards SEO do -- whether you're hiring 100 people and outsourcing, or whether you're paying for the latest "SEO Annihilator" program? I just don't see tangible results from any of it.

I welcome your thoughts on this...

Thanks
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utproducts 17 years ago

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- robvegas626 17 years ago
  
  You mention the importance of getting high-quality backlinks. Social media sites like Squidoo and HubPages have high PR and will publish your articles, but again, I've seen very little benefit from this. (I've got a ton of articles on every big social networking site.)
  
  On the other hand, I've recently built multiple WordPress blogs that are well-optimized. And, they draw traffic. Lots of it. For all of the money that I've spent on automated SEO software, none of it comes close to the results that I've had from simply setting up more and more optimized Wordpress blogs.
  
  Anyone care to comment...?
  
  Thanks
  
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debra

17 years ago

Originally Posted by robvegas626

But ultimately, what good does this "mass approach" towards SEO do -- whether you're hiring 100 people and outsourcing, or whether you're paying for the latest "SEO Annihilator" program? I just don't see tangible results from any of it.

I welcome your thoughts on this...

Off page seo can only go so far. Spamming every link baiting senerio doesn't make a lot of difference when little to none on page seo is done.

Most ppl have been taught that keywords, title, description are the only onpage seo that is worthy of thier time.

On page seo goes a lot further than that.

It would be nice to know that onpage seo can be outsourced. So far...I have found no relyable source without spending a lot of time teaching them.

Thanks

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TheRichJerksNet

17 years ago

The thing is what you need to keep in mind is that many and I do mean many do not even do basic SEO on their websites (basic as in meta tags). If you at least do the basic SEO that puts you one step ahead.

It would shock you to know how many really do not even take the 10 minutes to put in meta tags in their websites.

James

Thanks
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utproducts

17 years ago

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TheRichJerksNet

17 years ago

Originally Posted by qkz283

Actually, meta tags are useless. Google ignores them and if you don't implement them correctly, may even penalize you for it.

It's debatable if even Yahoo considers meta tags. Honestly, in terms of on-page optimization, meta tags should be dead last in terms of importance.

LOL ... Classic example of bad advice. Not only is you post bad advice but it's 100% rubbish. For one thing if you only rely on Google for your traffic then I feel sorry for you but anyways - I dominate many top ten listings and some of that is due to basic SEO. There are far more search engines online than just google, there are many niche specific search engines that many internet consumers use.

But hey more power to you if you want to think as you do, this just leaves all that much more for people who actually do take the time to do at least basic SEO...

James

Thanks

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utproducts

17 years ago

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TheRichJerksNet

17 years ago

Originally Posted by qkz283

James,

Several sites dominate the SERPs without any meta tags at all. And not only on Google.

If people want to use meta tags, that's fine. But they aren't even close to the essential optimization that newbies should focus on. Relevant content will beat meta tags any day.

And don't worry about me, I do just fine in several areas including SEO.

Yeah and those that use basic seo + optimization will outbeat those that just use optimization. Thus why basic SEO is also important as it is part of the puzzle in more ways than you know.

My point is though people should stop posting their "opinions" as fact when it is not fact and stop giving bad advice.

James

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Hafsoh

17 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I can`t understand anyone spending time, effort and money to build good websites then missing out the basics, like good meta tags.

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TheRichJerksNet 17 years ago

Originally Posted by Hafsoh

I can`t understand anyone spending time, effort and money to build good websites then missing out the basics, like good meta tags.

You would be shocked to know how high the number really is... No Title, No Description, No Keywords.... Some is due to others giving bad advice such as "they are useless" and others are just due to they do not understand even basic meta tags.

James
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AlexTampa

17 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Meta tags are useless in SEO. I dont have a single meta tag on any of my sites

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dburk

17 years ago

Originally Posted by AlexTampa

Meta tags are useless in SEO. I dont have a single meta tag on any of my sites

Someone should let Google know those meta tags are useless, apparently they think it is useful:

Meta tags - Webmasters/Site owners Help

And darn them for using my highly optimized descriptions as the snippet in the SERP. This has doubled my CTR in many cases and that's just wrong for a completely useless tag.

Thanks
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AlexTampa

17 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Google will only use it if it deems it useful to the query.

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rapidscc 17 years ago

Hi Rob

I've got some sites on top of search engine results that are giving me a constant flow of traffic but that is just a good opportunity. I must still take the necessary steps in order to convert these visits into actual sales or at least sign-up for some programs.

Doing SEO is necessary to let people know that you're out there. After this you must take time and effort to convert them..and that's where the real value lies..

To Your Success!

Raul Omar Diaz

P.S. I hope you're enjoying your stay here in the Philippines :-)
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timpears 17 years ago

So from what I have seen you say, do what is working for you. You have determined what works, so do more of it and forget what has not worked.

It is hard to believe that I am telling you to foget about building back links and all the other SEO stuff that most folks will tell you that you need to do. But, the proof is in the pudding as they say. You said that what has worked for you is building WP blogs. I would think that you always do what has worked, and you tell us that it is building more blogs.

Without seeing your sites and knowing what you are targeting, it is a little hard for anyone to give you any real advice. I can't understand why the SEO work has not paid off for you. But frankly, who cares. Go with what works.
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InternetMarketingIQ 17 years ago

Google is not ever going to report accurate backlink numbers. So forget about that. And just going after a huge voluem of backlinks is a useless strategy... traffic and targeted traffic is what you need.

I have a link from a large and well visited site that sends me tons of converting traffic. Worth way more than 1,000 backlinks.

Got it by building a relationship with the site editor.

If you want to make money find where your customers go, then figure out how to get your offer in front of them. Just cranking out links that no one will ever use is not a good use of time.
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MattSanti 17 years ago

seobook.com is a good resource you can use when it comes to learning about the game - and it is free.
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anthony23 Banned 17 years ago

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- timpears 17 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by anthony23
  
  i just don't bother with SEO it is just to time consuming.
  
  i rather do paid traffic because i have some type of control
  
  So how is SEO any different? Your paid traffic is based on key words, is it not? You set up your SEO based on key words. The difference I see is that once you quit paying for the clicks in the paid for traffic system, they stop. Once you set up the SEO, it may just drive traffic for the forseable future. I am not saying that you never need to do any more work, but the results can last for a long time in many instances.
  
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ggoddi 17 years ago

without SEO , just like u've prepared a good meal but no one knows
we can't just build a good site then wait for others to drop in by chance
we should do our work
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ggoddi 17 years ago

and as long as u are confident enough that u site is what people need ,
why not just try your best to let them know u when they need?
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Musa_Aykac 17 years ago

SEO is essential and for sites, especially new ones it takes time to pay off, especially for competitive terms.

But the more effort you put in the more you are going to get out in the end, same with anything. SEO is all about time and know how
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robvegas626 17 years ago

Some good feedback. Thanks. Fortunately I am doing well with my sites (mainly due to a strong sales page, products and sales funnel), I'm just trying to narrow down which techniques are actually helping me, and which are a waste of time. There simply are not enough hours in the day to do ALL of the techniques and submissions that various experts recommend.

I will say that I haven't seen much results from any automated submission software that I have used.

The one thing that still puzzles me is why my # of backlinks refuses to grow. I've been submitting new videos to YouTube and many other video sites on a regular basis. Sometimes 10 new videos per week. (This is in addition to many article submissions.) Yet my # of backlinks has remained stuck at what it was 4 months ago.

There has to be a better method than personally emailing webmasters and requesting a link exchange...
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jon poland 17 years ago

Dean: First of all, I envy you. You've got it going on! You have your own products. You have a sales funnel in place and you have products that sell. And, you can live anywhere in the world that you like. Congratulations!

As for the discussion you started here, here is my question: "What does your ideal customer look like and what are his interests. And most importantly, where does he like to hang out?"

For the people who purchase your product or opt in to your list, could you do a survey to see what things interest them? For example, if a high percentage of these guys are computer geeks who spend all night in tech forums, perhaps that would be a good place to buy some advertising.

Instead of thinking about keywords and SEO, think about your customer and think laterally. Where do they like to hang out and what else do they like to do?

I wish you all the best, Dean.

Again, congratulations on your success.

Jon
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leukram 17 years ago

i am just new to this field
but the belief that SEO is good and wise to help people to promote their website make me stay here
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leukram 17 years ago

but i also have one problems , that is how much SEO will cause spammy?
sometimes, i am a little bit confused bu this issue
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- dotslash 17 years ago
  
  I'm just trying to narrow down which techniques are actually helping me, and which are a waste of time.
  
  Yep exactly the same as me, in my experience all the automated tools (and I've tried most!) have very minimal long term effect. The basic concepts are fine but as soon as you try and leverage with them with a tool the benefits just fade very quickly.
  
  But slowly you find the methods that do work properly and they are generally natural methods which can be outsourced although you have to watch out for footprints such as IP addresses.
  
  Just my experience anyway - I'm no expert
  
  Thanks
  
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runner 17 years ago

SEO or SEM is the most important marketing strategy for me. I trust a lot on brand building in online marketing, because people have to know me and my skills, style and offers before they are willing to buy.

So I thought, that I can kill two flies with one hit, i.e. when I try to reach the first page ( or the first place ) with a certain keyword at Google, I`ll do it in a way, that it will also build trust ( brand ) and visitors during a long period of time.

So my answer has been article marketing and distribution. I use always so called long tail search terms and attach as long search term list as possible in the end. All my articles are optimized, but I also submit normal ones, because not all directories will accept optimization. The keyword research is essential. On the top of the relativeness, you have to be able to reach the top position or the position, which is your target. SEO or SEM is all about competition. Different sites compete about the best places.

I usually use the same keyword list on every article, but do it as follows. When I write a new article, I will take the search term from the last place of the list and locate it to be the first one and use it as my main keyword. I circulate the search terms and will follow, how their positions develop at Google. If you use high demand keywords it takes time, but start with slightly modest numbers.

This strategy, which I have done for a couple of years now, has brought to my site slightly under 700 visitors a day, which all are from the search engines ( mostly from Google ).
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kflanagan28 17 years ago

It seems to me the problem is you don't really understand SEO yourself (not meaning to be rude) and you are teaching a group of assistants the same bad habits. SEO is not about hammering the web with lots of spamming machines. You can break SEO down into 4 parts:

Keyword Strategy (Competitive Analysis is key)
On Site (Internal Links are key)
Link Promotion (Knowing your market is key)
Analytics (Knowing what to measure is key)

I get a little frustrated that everyone thinks SEO is mass submission of articles or running an automated social bookmark tool.

Also it sounds to me as if you are trying to rank squeeze pages and landing pages is this correct ? or do you have an actual website. If you are trying to rank single sales pages in the dating market, you are going to have a tough time. Not only does Google not like these type of pages for organic, you can't use lots of internal links etc to gain leverage.

You can't blame SEO for "not working" it depends on what you are trying to do with it, like any marketing vechile ...
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