Are more, or less categories better?

20 replies
  • SEO
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So let's say I have an online shop with over 5000 products, split into 5 categories each. Of those 1000 products in a category, they are split into 10 categories, 100 products in each. Those 100 products are split into 5 categories, 20 products each.

Now, at this point I could stop. However, these products can still be categorised further, and realistically should be. However, after doing this at least one or two more times, I will end up with only two to four products in each category.

Will this have a negative affect on SEO? We are currently doing it this way, and are being beaten by two sites with less quality links and less on-page content for each product. The only thing they are doing differently is stopping their categorisation one or two levels above ours.

So, should I have less categories? And is there any evidence to support this?

Thank you.
#categories
  • Profile picture of the author TheNewJames
    From an SEO standpoint, it won't matter too much.

    Instead, build it for user experience ... whatever makes the most sense for your users.
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  • Profile picture of the author The IM Institute
    Site usability is the key. You should have all the categories you need to make your site easy for users to navigate.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

    So let's say I have an online shop with over 5000 products, split into 5 categories each. Of those 1000 products in a category, they are split into 10 categories, 100 products in each. Those 100 products are split into 5 categories, 20 products each.

    Now, at this point I could stop. However, these products can still be categorised further, and realistically should be. However, after doing this at least one or two more times, I will end up with only two to four products in each category.

    Will this have a negative affect on SEO? We are currently doing it this way, and are being beaten by two sites with less quality links and less on-page content for each product. The only thing they are doing differently is stopping their categorisation one or two levels above ours.

    So, should I have less categories? And is there any evidence to support this?

    Thank you.
    What are you doing with the existing categories?
    • Is the site taking advantage of grouping internal links (silos)?
    • What are you doing with the inbound external links, are those links pointing at multiple important internal pages or just the Home page?
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  • Profile picture of the author jameskyle
    This is a relatively minute detail that doesn't have an overall significant impact on SEO.

    What matters more is generating traffic and backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jameskyle View Post

      This is a relatively minute detail that doesn't have an overall significant impact on SEO.

      What matters more is generating traffic and backlinks.
      Not true.

      Backlinks are without a doubt necessary but internal links & site structure are also important.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Not true.

        Backlinks are without a doubt necessary but internal links & site structure are also important.

        I believe especially so with a site with as many pages and categories as the one I am working on.

        Not too sure about a silo structure, never really spent time researching it. Could you explain how it would work with a site that has so many categories and sub categories? Baring in mind that, even though Sub-Category X and Sub-Category Z are very similar, people looking for products in Sub-Category X will have no interest in products in Sub-Category Z.

        About 90% of inbound links go to the main directory. We will be starting a link building campaign next month, and I am thinking of directing some of the links to the highest converting categories.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

          I believe especially so with a site with as many pages and categories as the one I am working on.

          Not too sure about a silo structure, never really spent time researching it. Could you explain how it would work with a site that has so many categories and sub categories? Baring in mind that, even though Sub-Category X and Sub-Category Z are very similar, people looking for products in Sub-Category X will have no interest in products in Sub-Category Z.

          About 90% of inbound links go to the main directory. We will be starting a link building campaign next month, and I am thinking of directing some of the links to the highest converting categories.
          The easiest way to explain an eCommerce silo site on a large scale is to look at the left sidebar on Amazon. When browsing Amazon for power tools you won't find toys because toys are irrelevant to power tools.

          That 90% of links pointing to your Home page is most likely what's holding you back on the SERPs. The deeper you nest pages on a URL, the more authority fades out along the way.

          Example, compare these two URLs below for dripping authority to an internal money page. This assumes the Home page is the only page in the URL structure that has strong inbound links from external webpages/domains.

          Strong link flow:

          hxxp://domain.com/buy-ford-mustang




          Weak link flow:

          hxxp://domain.com/ford/mustang/2015/buy-ford-mustang

          The 2nd URL example is weak because it has to pass link flow through 3 additional internal pages (/ford/mustang/2015/) opposed to the 1st URL example that is linking directly to the money page.

          Silos come into play by breaking a site down into smaller tightly grouped webpages that piggyback off of each other when it comes to passing authority & relevancy. Silos are also easier to navigate for traffic, again the Amazon example, traffic looking for power tools doesn't care about toys (example).

          Think of each group of pages in a silo as it's own website, it's like an entirely self contained site on it's own. So... instead of a single Home page, you have silo landing pages where you build up authority (external links) & pass that authority out to internal pages via internal links that are all in the same silo. Repeat for the rest of your categories...

          This type of site structure also has the advantage of ranking multiple internal pages per each keyword you target which can increase traffic without additional external links. Basically more bang for your buck when working on external links by spreading the external link authority to targeted internal pages.

          Lets take the same Ford Mustang example above & create a silo where the landing page (2015-ford-mustang) has strong external links pointing directly to that specific webpage.
          • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/buy-ford-mustang

          Now there's authority being passed directly to the money page (/buy-ford-mustang) from the silo landing page which stands a good chance of ranking both webpages for the same keyword which again stands a chance of driving more traffic to the site.

          Now scale the silo up:


          • hxxp://domain.com
            • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/
              • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/buy-ford-mustang
              • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/ford-mustang-convertible
              • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/ford-mustang-gt-fastback
              • hxxp://domain.com/2015-ford-mustang/ford-mustang-pricing-features
              • etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
    I have another quick question while I am here.

    We are using ZenCart, and the way you get to a product changes the URL.

    For example, a product has a page, and the url for it looks like this
    /index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=xxxx

    However, if I set that product as a featured product, placing a link to it on the homepage, following that link, the product url now becomes this
    /index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=xxxx&produc ts_id=xxxx

    Obviously each version has the rel canonical pointing to the main one, but doesn't this kind of screw up any silo structure?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

      I have another quick question while I am here.

      We are using ZenCart, and the way you get to a product changes the URL.

      For example, a product has a page, and the url for it looks like this
      /index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=xxxx

      However, if I set that product as a featured product, placing a link to it on the homepage, following that link, the product url now becomes this
      /index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=xxxx&produc ts_id=xxxx

      Obviously each version has the rel canonical pointing to the main one, but doesn't this kind of screw up any silo structure?
      That's a nightmare for internal links. The devs that build shopping carts never have SEO in mind.

      Sometimes Google will ignore anything after the question mark (?) in a URL. What does a site:domain.com search look like for your site, is Google indexing all your internal pages?

      Here's more URL info. from Google.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's a nightmare for internal links. The devs that build shopping carts never have SEO in mind.

        Sometimes Google will ignore anything after the question mark (?) in a URL. What does a site:domain.com search look like for your site, is Google indexing all your internal pages?

        Here's more URL info. from Google.

        There are 63 google pages of our results currently, and not all of the site as been indexed yet since the re-launch last week.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

          There are 63 google pages of our results currently, and not all of the site as been indexed yet since the re-launch last week.
          Ok. After reading the OP I thought you had well established pages. That right there alone could be a problem.

          Did you change all your old internal page URLs? If that's the case you're basically starting over as far as ranking product pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
    Everything changed. Google had to deindex and reindex the whole site, especially as we switched over to HTTPS
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

      Everything changed. Google had to deindex and reindex the whole site, especially as we switched over to HTTPS
      Yea, you're starting over.

      You need to figure out your site structure & then work on getting your existing link profile in order like 301 redirects from the old URLs to whatever new URLs for new pages you want to rank.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Yea, you're starting over.

        You need to figure out your site structure & then work on getting your existing link profile in order like 301 redirects from the old URLs to whatever new URLs for new pages you want to rank.
        Site structure is the bit I am currently working on. Sadly our web dev is a bit lazy and as much as I would like to try find a way to have better site structure and to fix the urls (seems like all our competition have "domain.com/product-x" and "domain.com/category-x"). I am going to need to give them proof of a reason why they should bother.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

          Site structure is the bit I am currently working on. Sadly our web dev is a bit lazy and as much as I would like to try find a way to have better site structure and to fix the urls (seems like all our competition have "domain.com/product-x" and "domain.com/category-x"). I am going to need to give them proof of a reason why they should bother.
          Most web/devs aren't SEOs so I'm sure it will be an uphill battle.

          The best I can suggest is use the Amazon example.
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          • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Most web/devs aren't SEOs so I'm sure it will be an uphill battle.

            The best I can suggest is use the Amazon example.

            So just to be clear, Google will see this - /index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=xxx_xxx_xxx x_xxxx_xxxx&products_id=9999

            and this - /index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9999

            as two different pages? And this is harmful to SEO?

            I mean it must be. The only way to access the page takes you to the top URL, but that page has rel canonical pointing to the second URL.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

              So just to be clear, Google will see this - /index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=xxx_xxx_xxx x_xxxx_xxxx&products_id=9999

              and this - /index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9999

              as two different pages? And this is harmful to SEO?

              I mean it must be. The only way to access the page takes you to the top URL, but that page has rel canonical pointing to the second URL.
              You can prove what Google is doing by searching the cache for both URLs. I've seen Google redirect similar URLs like your example to only one of the cache pages/URLs.
              • cache:hxxp://index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=xxx_xxx_xxxx_xxxx_xxx x&products_id=9999
              • cache:hxxp://index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=9999

              Personally I wouldn't expect anything after the question mark in the URL to be indexed. You might get those pages/URLs indexed but IMO it's risky to expect it as solid SEO. Session ID type URLs are just sloppy for SEO & traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
    Well, as expected, here is the Web Dev reply.

    "No, I will not rewrite the urls... we have been down that road and they posses no SEO value, that is the result of Google having troubles with parameters over 6 years ago =)... the rel canonical is correct. Since you re did webmaster's tools all you have to do is setup the parameters, or eventually Google will discover them on their own."

    Now, as usual it's going to a battle between marketing and web dev. What sources can I use to win this one?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Heyfine11 View Post

      Well, as expected, here is the Web Dev reply.

      "No, I will not rewrite the urls... we have been down that road and they posses no SEO value, that is the result of Google having troubles with parameters over 6 years ago =)... the rel canonical is correct. Since you re did webmaster's tools all you have to do is setup the parameters, or eventually Google will discover them on their own."

      Now, as usual it's going to a battle between marketing and web dev. What sources can I use to win this one?
      I don't know what else to suggest without seeing the domain & how Google is handling the indexed URLs..

      How do you fit into this, are you an outsourced SEO? Do you own the domain?
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      • Profile picture of the author Heyfine11
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I don't know what else to suggest without seeing the domain & how Google is handling the indexed URLs..

        How do you fit into this, are you an outsourced SEO? Do you own the domain?
        Right now I am pretty much a one man marketing team, while standing in for the actual owner of the site trying to run everything while he is taking some significant time away. This means that although I am left running everything, I don't really have any power over the Web Dev team. I can make suggestions and valid arguments and hope they actually get it done, or I have to wait for him to return, which might not be for a long time.

        Since it seems to be only you and me in this thread I am going to PM you.
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