how to check keyword competition?

77 replies
  • SEO
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hey all , what are the methods or sites you use to check keyword competition & how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
#check #competition #keyword
  • Profile picture of the author MrMintyBluez
    Use Mozbar for Chrome
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  • Profile picture of the author patco
    Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

    how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
    What do you mean? How many backlinks to build to outrank all other websites or what? Google keyword tool tells exactly what's the competition for every single keyword (or keyphrase!)
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    • Profile picture of the author stormyse7en
      Originally Posted by patco View Post

      What do you mean? How many backlinks to build to outrank all other websites or what? Google keyword tool tells exactly what's the competition for every single keyword (or keyphrase!)
      I think the google key world only show the competition of advertisers who use Google Ad?
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    • Profile picture of the author MrMintyBluez
      Originally Posted by sansui View Post

      Google keyword planner does the job
      Keyword Planner only tells you the number of searches, not the page competitiveness.
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  • Profile picture of the author malikmati
    Google keywords planner is good. You should start working on low competition keywords
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  • Profile picture of the author Meenawls
    Google Keyword Planner and wordstream are the best tools to identify the keyword competitions..
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  • Profile picture of the author blog orbit
    I recently bought Market Samurai because of their multi features. I honestly say its really a worthy tool. (I'm not saying because of sig.) You can test the 14day free trial to verify my words.
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  • Profile picture of the author harish9
    Google Keyword Planner and Wordtracker will help to choose keywords based on the search volume.We have to analyse the competition keywords based on the searches.
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    • Profile picture of the author group786cool
      Originally Posted by hieronymusf01 View Post

      Google keyword planner
      Google keyword planner asking to pay.
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  • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
    Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

    hey all , what are the methods or sites you use to check keyword competition & how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
    Use the Google search and something like the Moz bar. This way you'll see what kind of competition you're facing, and how strong the the pages are. Moz's stats are far from perfect, but they work quite well for this purpose.

    How much competition is enough to prevent you from ranking? Well, compare your stats to the 1st SERP of something you want to rank on. It doesn't matter if you only have 500 sites competing for the same keyword if you've got no change against the first 10.

    Originally Posted by blog orbit View Post

    I recently bought Market Samurai because of their multi features. I honestly say its really a worthy tool.
    Market Samurai is a slow, unreliable wrapper for data that's available elsewhere. It's been a year since I've looked at it, so maybe they've managed to improve it, but it has not been a good tool.
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  • Profile picture of the author richasharma
    You can use Moz and Serp to check the keyword competition. These tools will assist you up to a great extent in performing SEO for your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author tekruiter
    Google Keyword Planner is a best tool with the help of which you can check out the competition of the keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author mariajerek
    Google keyword planner is the best way to check the monthly searched and competition of a keyword. Second thing is you can search that keyword on google and get the total result available on that keyword. This will help you to get the idea in how much time you can get your keyword on top position on SERP. And you can use KEI process to calculate the best keyword for your website regarding traffic, ranking & competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author saxmanay
    thankyou everyone for their input but i am still able to get that how to check keyword competition bc google keyword only tells low medium or high but some people says google's low is not actually low.
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    • Profile picture of the author warriordream
      Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

      thankyou everyone for their input but i am still able to get that how to check keyword competition bc google keyword only tells low medium or high but some people says google's low is not actually low.
      Try using Traffic Travis.
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  • Profile picture of the author techiesri
    There are many tools available on the web to find keywords but I would suggest that you can try Google Keyword Planner.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    My bet is half the forum profiles in this thread are owned by one person.
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    • Profile picture of the author MrMintyBluez
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      My bet is half the forum profiles in this thread are owned by one person.
      Mines real
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim3
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      My bet is half the forum profiles in this thread are owned by one person.
      ... and I guess they all use PPC because none of them have any idea how to check keyword competition for the SERP's
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

        ... and I guess they all use PPC because none of them have any idea how to check keyword competition for the SERP's
        Hi Tim3,

        Perhaps I can enlighten you a bit on how The Keyword Planner tool can be a useful tool for SEO purposes.

        There is the most obvious benefit which is Search Volume data. This is extremely useful in determining the relative value of ranking a particular keyword, I'm sure we can all agree on that to various degrees, right? Most people would prefer to rank high on a relevant keyword with large search volume vs. a term with low volume, all other things being equal. However not everyone has the same objectives in mind when it comes to SEO campaigns.

        Exactly how you will want to use the Keyword Planner tool will vary based on the Goals of your SEO campaign. So as with all marketing objectives the first step is to define your goals.

        I will discuss 2 categories of SEO goals, the first being business goals for any company with a commercial website, the other type being SEO agency goals, since all too often the SEO agency's goals do not line up with the business goals of their clients.

        Business Goals


        Businesses are typically looking to increase their website traffic for relevant terms that have high commercial intent. Their goal often is to increase profits, not to merely move ranking stats on a report.

        The Keyword Planner tool is extremely useful at identifying the value of ranking a particular keyword, based not only on the search volume, but also on the relative commercial intent of the keyword. The competition column shows relative competition among PPC advertisers who are typically very data driven in their actions. When you consider the search volume, competition level, and recommended bids, you get a very accurate read on the value of ranking a particular keyword. This is very useful in determining how much to invest and the potential ROI when achieving a top ranking.

        While the PPC competition level by itself does not give you a precise measure of the difficulty to rank a particular keyword, when you combine the search volume, competition level, and recommended bids you can get a fairly accurate read on how difficult that keyword will be to maintain a ranking. The higher those data points are the more diligent you competitors are going to be at outranking you in a head-to-head competition for Search rankings.

        It's also useful in finding keywords with high commercial intent and relatively low search volume (aka: longtail keywords) that might be quite easy to rank for and yield a very nice ROI.

        SEO Agency Goals

        SEO agency goals vary from one agency to the next. Some agencies have aligned their own goals with their clients' goals and they can use the Keyword Planner tool as described above. However, there are many SEO firms that prefer to focus only on a self-serving goal, like bumping up rankings for a list of keywords they are reporting on. Their goal might be to find the keywords that they can most easily show a gain in rankings without consideration of the value that brings to their clients.

        Again, the Keyword Planner can help to identify low search volume keywords, with low PPC competition and low CPCs, targeting those terms to make quick measurable gains to put onto a report to show clients as a way of justifying their fees. Not a practice I would condone, but is just one of many ways the the Keyword Planner can be used by SEO agencies.

        They might also be trying to demonstrate an increase in traffic. An agency can also use the tool to identify the keywords likely to bring the most search traffic and compare that to data gathered from direct analysis of the SERP to estimate the lowest cost per visit keywords to focus on in their campaigns.

        Of course there are many more ways to use the AdWords Keyword Planner for keyword research that is used in SEO campaigns, this reply is meant to get you thinking about some of the ways to use the tool.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tim3
          Originally Posted by dburk View Post

          Hi Tim3,

          Perhaps I can enlighten you a bit on how The Keyword Planner tool can be a useful tool for SEO purposes.
          Yes I agree the GKP is a very useful tool, and am aware of how the GKP data can be interpreted, nevertheless I graciously accept your explanation of using the GKP in the spirit in which it was offered.

          I prefer to look at the SERP itself and view the top 4 sites, for a particular term and the closely related ones.and if necessary check the backlink profiles, of sites I'm not familiar with. As far I'm concerned, that is the competition to beat, I don't care about the thousands of other sites, nor do I follow what millions of other
          people are doing (using the GKP)

          I have committed to memory dozens of buyer terms and usually know at a glance if a KW is going to be competitive, and which authority sites in my niches are most likely ranking for them, in any event I never try and rank for head terms from the off, that may come later by natural authority built up over time from supporting pages of longtails, which is what I target first, dozens at a time, which gives me natural volume by default.

          My main use of the GKP (apart from PPC to gain accurate volume data) is for relevant keyword ideas, closely related terms I hadn't thought of, and, as the data is likely old, a very rough, quick, and free guide only for search volumes I may want to look at. For building silos, I find it invaluable.

          If folks want to use it for something it is not designed for, that is not my concern, I do what works for me.
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          • Profile picture of the author dburk
            Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

            Yes I agree the GKP is a very useful tool, and am aware of how the GKP data can be interpreted, nevertheless I graciously accept your explanation of using the GKP in the spirit in which it was offered.

            I prefer to look at the SERP itself and view the top 4 sites, for a particular term and the closely related ones.and if necessary check the backlink profiles, of sites I'm not familiar with. As far I'm concerned, that is the competition to beat, I don't care about the thousands of other sites, nor do I follow what millions of other
            people are doing (using the GKP)
            I agree, the competition to beat are those that are already on the 1st page of search results. However, before you can look at that data you need to know which keywords to potentially target. That is where the AKP tool shines. It not only can aid you in finding the best keywords to target, the tool gives you a great amount of data that informs you about the relative value of the keyword, without that data you are just guessing, and that's not real marketing.

            The difference between marketing and selling is "measuring". A measurement without context has no meaning. The AKP tool provides context, in the form of commercial value, for the keywords you are considering targeting.

            A keyword that is easy to rank, but has little to no value, might not be worth the effort to rank it. That is something I try not to overlook when analyzing keyword competitiveness.

            I do get what you are saying, there are many folks that just look at the "Competition level" column of data and incorrectly assume that it means organic search ranking competitiveness. It doesn't tell you that, it is more of an indicator of commercial intent. It also does not list who your competitors are, nor the strength of their competitiveness.

            Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

            I have committed to memory dozens of buyer terms and usually know at a glance if a KW is going to be competitive, and which authority sites in my niches are most likely ranking for them
            I find that those easy to guess "buyer terms" do not always perform as well as one might expect. In some niches the terms you might guess at will have little to no traffic, and in some situations do not convert as well as you might expect. Besides, most competitors can guess the exact same terms and might have a big head start on you. The AKP tool gives you real data, you can make data informed decisions without guessing.

            Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

            in any event I never try and rank for head terms from the off, that may come later by natural authority built up over time from supporting pages of longtails, which is what I target first, dozens at a time, which gives me natural volume by default.
            You and I differ in that I almost always go for head terms right out of the gate, as well as longtail terms, but only those that have the greatest potential value that will be worth my time targeting. It's good to have long term goals, and short term goals should place you firmly on the path towards your long term goals, in my opinion. Otherwise you never get very far in your accomplishments.

            have you ever heard the expression?: "The man that chases many rabbits catches none."
            I have a similar expression I use for training my staff: "The SEOer that chases many longtails catches no head terms." If you carefully select your longtails that help you rank for head terms you can target both at the same time and get a lot of synergy from that method.

            For me, I find that targeting head terms will also naturally help to rank many longtail keywords without any extra effort. I guess I use the exact opposite strategy that you do, my strategy works for me, and I'm sure yours works for you, I suppose we just have different marketing goals. I cannot afford to allow my competitors to dominate the head terms.

            Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

            My main use of the GKP (apart from PPC to gain accurate volume data) is for relevant keyword ideas, closely related terms I hadn't thought of, and, as the data is likely old, a very rough, quick, and free guide only for search volumes I may want to look at. For building silos, I find it invaluable.

            If folks want to use it for something it is not designed for, that is not my concern, I do what works for me.
            I too use the tool for those same purposes.

            Try to keep in mind that while the tool is specifically designed for PPC advertisers, it is showing you real data on search terms that are searched for on Google. Data is data, there is no rule that says you have to use that data in any particular way, that is up to the users of the tool. If you are doing any kind of Search Engine Marketing, that data is very useful. And as I pointed out in my earlier reply, it is very effective for determining the true competitiveness of keywords with high commercial intent.

            Of course there are other ways of measuring competitiveness of search terms, I just think that it's hard to beat, if you know how to analyze the data.
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            • Profile picture of the author sparrow
              Originally Posted by dburk View Post

              I agree, the competition to beat are those that are already on the 1st page of search results. However, before you can look at that data you need to know which keywords to potentially target. That is where the AKP tool shines. It not only can aid you in finding the best keywords to target, the tool gives you a great amount of data that informs you about the relative value of the keyword, without that data you are just guessing, and that's not real marketing.
              AKP Tool

              are you referring to Google Keyword Planner Tool?
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              • Profile picture of the author dburk
                Originally Posted by sparrow View Post

                AKP Tool

                are you referring to Google Keyword Planner Tool?
                Yes I'm referring to Google's AdWords Keyword Planner tool.

                We agencies often refer to as the AKP, or just "Keyword Planner", for the benefit of readers that might not be familiar with the tool I usually call it the "AdWords Keyword Planner", however since I wrote out the full name many times in this thread I shortened to the initials to save time.

                I have noticed that many in the SEO field like to leave out the term "AdWords", which might confuse a newbie. Technically speaking it is an AdWords tool that is officially named "Keyword Planner", but many folks don't know what it is, or where you would find it if you leave out the term "AdWords".
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  • Profile picture of the author dmammar
    You can use seoprofiler or mondovo for checking competition
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  • Long tail pro ( charge fee) or keyword planner (free) may be the best choice for you
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  • Profile picture of the author Pradeepseo
    Google Adwords Keyword Tool is best for checking Keyword competition
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  • Profile picture of the author vithobaaseo
    Use Google keyword planner tool.. you can get all the keyword competition and average monthly searches..
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  • Profile picture of the author nahidhasan2025
    Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

    hey all , what are the methods or sites you use to check keyword competition & how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
    There are few ways you can get idea about keyword competition.
    ==> Moz keyword difficulty tool
    ==> Long tail pro keyword competition tool
    ==> By checking google search result numbers.
    ==> Market Samurai

    The competition google keyword planner shows is for PPC. That is not for SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author evaonaleus
    Hey, you can check keyword competition by using Google keyword planer, SEMRUSH,
    Wordstream, SEObook etc
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  • Profile picture of the author cybnetics
    You can use Google Keyword planner to check keyword Competition .
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  • Profile picture of the author JoseBarreiro
    Hi saxmanay,

    You can use Keyword Planner or SEM rush for checking the competition on keywords. In it you will see the competition in the form of Low, high and medium.

    You being a newbie should focus the keywords from the list which have low or medium competition. Once your keywords start ranking, you can focus on the high competition keywords.
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  • Profile picture of the author multisys353
    Google Keyword Planner Tool and WordStream are best tool for competitions keyword check
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  • Profile picture of the author saxmanay
    okay guys i found a 2 word keyword with 6.6k searches per month with low competition & when we search the keyword in google their top sites are pinterest & tumblr blogs. is that keyword good to rank?
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

      okay guys i found a 2 word keyword with 6.6k searches per month with low competition & when we search the keyword in google their top sites are pinterest & tumblr blogs. is that keyword good to rank?
      Hi saxmanay,

      The answer to your question depends upon your goals.

      Keywords with low competition in AdWords Keyword Planner tool are generally keywords with low commercial intent. Most often those terms are searched by information seekers with no intent to make a purchase. If that is your target audience then yes, it is a good keyword to target.

      If, however, your goal is to generate traffic to a landing page designed for online sales, or leads, then it might not be a good keyword to target. For direct response traffic you need to target very specific, extremely relevant keywords with high commercial intent. Those keywords will nearly always show high competition level with relatively high suggested bids.
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    • Profile picture of the author saxmanay
      is there anyone who can answer this question?

      Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

      okay guys i found a 2 word keyword with 6.6k searches per month with low competition & when we search the keyword in google their top sites are pinterest & tumblr blogs. is that keyword good to rank?
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by saxmanay
        okay guys i found a 2 word keyword with 6.6k searches per month with low competition & when we search the keyword in google their top sites are pinterest & tumblr blogs. is that keyword good to rank?
        Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

        is there anyone who can answer this question?
        Hi saxmanay,

        The answer to your question will vary based upon you goals. Why are you trying to rank the term? Is your goal just traffic, regardless of quality or commercial value? If so then go for it.

        However, if your goal is to make a profit via online sales, lead generation or similar direct response marketing, then it is likely a very poor term to target.

        The stats that you included are not enough to make a good decision, but from what I can tell it is likely a search term that is informational in nature and has very low, or no commercial intent. You can still make use of such terms if you build a landing page that matches the users intent and also includes content to build a relationship with potential future buyers. You essentially are targeting the upper marketing channel (awareness & branding), and as long as you can do that at a very low cost per user it can be worthwhile.
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        • Profile picture of the author saxmanay
          Originally Posted by dburk View Post

          Hi saxmanay,

          The answer to your question will vary based upon you goals. Why are you trying to rank the term? Is your goal just traffic, regardless of quality or commercial value? If so then go for it.

          However, if your goal is to make a profit via online sales, lead generation or similar direct response marketing, then it is likely a very poor term to target.

          The stats that you included are not enough to make a good decision, but from what I can tell it is likely a search term that is informational in nature and has very low, or no commercial intent. You can still make use of such terms if you build a landing page that matches the users intent and also includes content to build a relationship with potential future buyers. You essentially are targeting the upper marketing channel (awareness & branding), and as long as you can do that at a very low cost per user it can be worthwhile.
          hi i am new to internet marketing & interested in seo/blogging so i just want to rank any keyword to see if i can rank & yeah it doesn't matter if that keyword makes money or not.
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        • Profile picture of the author Project Sniper
          - KeySearch
          - KeyWord Revealer
          - Moz Bar
          - aHrefs Bar
          - SEM Rush
          - Spy Fu etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author sparrow
      Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

      okay guys i found a 2 word keyword with 6.6k searches per month with low competition & when we search the keyword in google their top sites are pinterest & tumblr blogs. is that keyword good to rank?
      you mean low competition for PPC if your using keyword planner, nothing other than search counts is for organic search

      is it a good keyword to rank, depends what the other 8 sites look like

      in addition what the keyword intent is and what your planning to do with it

      you question is way to vague

      what you should be looking at is the complete group of related keywords instead of picking on one keyword at a time

      here is an example of what I mean

      the lose weight fast niche
      this niche is extremely competitive

      green and yellow easier to rank for while red very hard to break into



      now within that keyword group exist keywords with good commercial intent with less competition



      I look at large groups of keywords to have a better understanding on what is going on and I don't care what the search counts are it actually means nothing
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  • Profile picture of the author OussamaBusiness
    You Can Find Website For This Service example :
    Google Adwords , Keywordspy , keywordtool.io ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Francisco PIW
    From my point of view there are three approaches:

    1. Keyword planner (Google). It's free and you just need a google account.
    2. Long Tail Keywords. It's not free but it's very useful and complete. It has many features and is intuitive and easy to use.
    3. Market Samurai. It's not free either. It used to be one of the best ones time ago. Not as competitive right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author irawr
      Banned
      Wow, pretty much every post in this thread is wrong.

      How to check keyword competition for Google SEO:

      It does take a bit of experience, but you just make a spreadsheet of the SERP for the KW, check each site's backlinks to the page and to the domain. Then filter out all garbage spam links, domain tool links, nofollow, or links that are not relevant to the keyword. Those links are all extremely low value (or no value) so don't even bother looking at that them. You may also want to make sure the quality links are still live. Then figure out how many quality links whatever rank you want has, then evaluate the difficulty to reproduce that. Look for things like PBN sites, 301 domains, and lower value links (that work) like directories or resource page links. Also do an on page/site evaluation; is this page highly relevant to the keyword? Does this section of the site have all highly relevant content, or is it just a random post they made about blue widgets on a site about purple panda bears?

      The SEMRush keyword difficulty tool works, but you have to know how to use it correctly. If you throw some random gibberish longtail in and it has data on the keyword, it might say the difficulty is 95%, which is wrong. You need a point of reference, so for example, you are ranked one on a 85 and your competition is ranked one on a 75 but you are not targeting that keyword. Since you already know you can beat that site on a more difficult keyword and you can see that keyword is less difficult, generally speaking you should be able to outrank that site on that keyword as well. But you really do just have to figure that out in the backlinks to that page (both external and internal links.)

      The Google keyword planner is useful for keyword discovery and search volume. That is all. It has no other use in SEO. So you can use it to find a keyword and get an estimate of how much it is searched. If you are using it for anything else, you are doing it wrong. If you are looking at the competition level, that's for adwords, doing it wrong. If you are looking at the cost per click, that is an extremely vague and inaccurate measure of SEO difficulty, wrong.

      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      The Keyword Planner tool is extremely useful at identifying the value of ranking a particular keyword, based not only on the search volume, but also on the relative commercial intent of the keyword. The competition column shows relative competition among PPC advertisers who are typically very data driven in their actions. When you consider the search volume, competition level, and recommended bids, you get a very accurate read on the value of ranking a particular keyword. This is very useful in determining how much to invest and the potential ROI when achieving a top ranking.
      I agree with the general logic and highly disagree with the statement "very accurate." If you're determining how much to invest based upon keyword planner data you deserve to be round house kicked to the face. It gives no indication of actual earnings, you're saying potential, potentially anything is possible. It's generally useful sure, it's an estimate, it gives you an idea. With experience you can come up with a range to potentially invest, but that range is going to have two different numbers of digits. The main issue here is, it will never tell you the response your competition will have to you. This "strategy" is effectively the same thing as predicting tomorrow's weather by looking outside today.

      The PPC data might tell you the keyword is "worth 1M/year" but it might take 100M of SEO work to get there. Seriously, the keyword planner is PPC data, if your business relies on SEO, you need to rely on SEO data, not PPC data.
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by irawr View Post

        Wow, pretty much every post in this thread is wrong.
        So you think there is just one way to do it... your way, or its wrong? Any other method that is different than your preferred method is wrong?

        What if someone found a faster more reliable way? Would you just automatically proclaim it wrong because it is different from you method? Or, would you ask for more details, and try it out to see if it actually works? Just wondering if you have completely closed your mind to learning anything new, if so, please disregard my post, as it will be of no use to you.

        Originally Posted by irawr View Post

        The Google keyword planner is useful for keyword discovery and search volume. That is all. It has no other use in SEO. So you can use it to find a keyword and get an estimate of how much it is searched. If you are using it for anything else, you are doing it wrong. If you are looking at the competition level, that's for adwords, doing it wrong. If you are looking at the cost per click, that is an extremely vague and inaccurate measure of SEO difficulty, wrong.
        Yes, the AdWords Keyword Planner tool does help you find relevant keywords, and yes, it does show you accurate search volume data as well, no one seems to dispute that about the tool. However, I must disagree with your assertion that "It has no other use in SEO.", that is where I believe you are completely wrong.

        Yes, I agree that the competition level data is the level of competition amongst AdWords advertisers. And yes, this is where I disagree, that information is extremely useful for marketers, especially if you are doing SEO.

        Keyword competitiveness levels are only meaningful within context of relevant value. If you are marketing for profit, you must consider the relative value of ranking for a keyword, and value is not based merely on keyword volume, not if you are marketing for profit. The competition level data, along with the suggested bids are a very accurate indicator of commercial value, as well as commercial intent as displayed by searchers' behavior.

        Your method, as you describe it, sounds fairly labor intensive. Wouldn't it be nice if you could narrow you keywords down to just those keywords that you have already decided to target, then use your method on that short list?

        There is also a strong correlation between that data in the AKP tool and the relative difficulty in earning and maintaining a ranking within the organic SERP listings. You see, AdWords advertisers are often doing SEO as well. In fact, many top SEO agencies use AdWords to gather data to inform their SEO campaigns. Generally, if you see a term that has high competition levels and relatively high suggested bids you will discover that the organic competition is typically at the same relatively high level.

        If your SEO goal isn't related to profit, then the tool can also be useful in helping you find keywords with low commercial intent. Those keywords are often easier to rank because there is a lot less money chasing that traffic. That is where you often see websites like Wikipedia, or other information pages that dominate the top rankings. Again, understanding the strong correlation in the AKP tool data will save you a bunch of time.

        There are other uses as well, but I want to keep this post brief. I realize that many folks in the SEO field are not familiar with data analysis concepts and methods. I hope it opens the eyes of those with a desire and willingness to learn a new trick or two.
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        • Profile picture of the author irawr
          Banned
          Originally Posted by dburk View Post

          So you think there is just one way to do it... your way, or its wrong? Any other method that is different than your preferred method is wrong?

          What if someone found a faster more reliable way? Would you just automatically proclaim it wrong because it is different from you method? Or, would you ask for more details, and try it out to see if it actually works? Just wondering if you have completely closed your mind to learning anything new, if so, please disregard my post, as it will be of no use to you.
          That's correct. There's the right way or can you can guess, or stare at some tool that is an estimate. The technique I described is the most reliable and accurate. Why do people on warriorforum always assume there is some kind of shortcut or hack? You do work. That's how it's done. The method I described is exactly how agencies (that are worth a shit) do it.

          Closed minded? Okay if you're going to start with insults here you go: You suggested building a business that relies on SEO, based upon PPC data. I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who I am, so I can't assume that you are not successful, but the strategy you mentioned is completely retarded. So you're going to make investments based upon estimates and generalities, okay, great, have fun. I wouldn't recommend anybody take that advice. I suggest that you dump their links into a spreadsheet and evaluate the value of your competition's SEO. To be clear: I suggest you use SEO data to plan your SEO campaigns, not PPC data, this really should be common sense. The PPC tool does not give you any idea how much it is going to cost to rank, PERIOD. Seriously man, what's next? Are you going tell us Google is AI designed by aliens or some shit? ...

          Edit: To be completely clear: I can look at a keyword, build a data model, render that model, and tell you with in -15%/+15%, what it's going to cost to get to #1, assuming the competition does not respond with aggressive SEO campaigns. Your technique could easily be off by 1000%.
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          • Profile picture of the author dburk
            Originally Posted by irawr View Post

            That's correct. There's the right way and or can you can guess, or stare at some tool that is an estimate. The technique I described is the most reliable and accurate. Why do people on warriorforum always assume there is some kind of shortcut or hack? You do work. That's how it's done. The method I described is exactly how agencies (that are worth a shit) do it.

            Closed minded? Okay if you're going to start with insults here you go: You suggested building a business that relies on SEO, based upon PPC data. I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who I am, so I can't assume that you are not successful, but the strategy you mentioned is completely retarded. So you're going to make investments based upon estimates and generalities, okay, great, have fun. I wouldn't recommend anybody take that advice. I suggest that you dump their links into a spreadsheet and evaluate the value of your competition's SEO. To be clear: I suggest you use SEO data to plan your SEO campaigns, not PPC data, this really should be common sense. The PPC tool does not give you any idea how much it is going to cost to rank, PERIOD. Seriously man, what's next? Are you going tell us Google is AI designed by aliens or some shit? ...
            Hi irawr,

            First let me say that no insult toward you was intended. Just some gentle prodding. If you felt insulted, then please allow me to apologize. I am a bit older than the typical marketer so I don't mince words, I just call it as i see it. As I get older I find that I have a tendency to get set in my ways so I am always checking my opinions to see if they are based on principle and that I haven't closed my mind to learning new ideas. It was in that spirit that I intended to prod you just a bit.

            I have been doing Marketing for 28 years, SEO for businesses for 20 years, and have operated a full service Digital Marketing agency for the past 14 years. So I have been where you are now, and fortunately for me I have continued to learn more and more every day of my career in marketing. Even so, I do try to keep an open mind to new ideas and concepts, so I don't miss out on things that I think won't work, but have never tried.

            Over the years I have been in this business I have built, tested, and optimized many processes used for data analysis and data modeling. I have written many algorithms to automate process and I am totally dedicated to principle of data-driven decisions based on scientific methods.

            I used to tell people on this very forum that you can't use the Competition Level data for SEO, because it relates to competition among advertisers not, not organic listings. But that was before I spotted someone using data modeling, which is a bit more advanced and not for everyone. I suddenly realized it could be of great value. Since then I have learned many new techniques that are highly effective for SEO keyword research.

            I do make investments based on estimates, but not on generalities. Nor did I make any suggestions for anyone to base decisions merely on generalities. I always try to be as specific as possible, using the most specific data I have available. However, please keep in mind that data comes from past performance and we must predict future performance using estimates based on past performance, unless you can see into the future. So for that reason the ability to make estimates for future performance is a prerequisite for any competent marketer, in my opinion.

            What you call "PPC data", isn't merely PPC data, truth be told it is Search Engine data. PPC listings are not only placed on the same page as organic listings, they are often put in the same positions that organic listing are often found. A significant percentage of search engine users have no idea of the difference between an organic listing and a sponsored listing, they often see it as one and the same. If you have been in the game for a while you would likely already know this. I suspect that you probably have been and that you do know this, if not than this is intended to enlighten you a bit.

            You can choose to look at the data in the AdWords Keyword Planner tool as just PPC data, instead of Search Engine data, that is your prerogative. Even so it does not mean it has no value for SEO campaigns. Instead, try asking the question, "how can this help me in my SEO campaigns". That requires a shift in mindset, I realize that can be hard for some people, but I have found it allows for a complete paradigm shift and a lot of aha moments.

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            • Profile picture of the author irawr
              Banned
              Originally Posted by dburk View Post

              Hi irawr,

              First let me say that no insult toward you was intended. Just some gentle prodding. If you felt insulted, then please allow me to apologize. I am a bit older than the typical marketer so I don't mince words, I just call it as i see it. As I get older I find that I have a tendency to get set in my ways so I am always checking my opinions to see if they are based on principle and that I haven't closed my mind to learning new ideas. It was in that spirit that I intended to prod you just a bit.

              I have been doing Marketing for 28 years, SEO for businesses for 20 years, and have operated a full service Digital Marketing agency for the past 14 years. So I have been where you are now, and fortunately for me I have continued to learn more and more every day of my career in marketing. Even so, I do try to keep an open mind to new ideas and concepts, so I don't miss out on things that I think won't work, but have never tried.

              Over the years I have been in this business I have built, tested, and optimized many processes used for data analysis and data modeling. I have written many algorithms to automate process and I am totally dedicated to principle of data-driven decisions based on scientific methods.

              I used to tell people on this very forum that you can't use the Competition Level data for SEO, because it relates to competition among advertisers not, not organic listings. But that was before I spotted someone using data modeling, which is a bit more advanced and not for everyone. I suddenly realized it could be of great value. Since then I have learned many new techniques that are highly effective for SEO keyword research.

              I do make investments based on estimates, but not on generalities. Nor did I make any suggestions for anyone to base decisions merely on generalities. I always try to be as specific as possible, using the most specific data I have available. However, please keep in mind that data comes from past performance and we must predict future performance using estimates based on past performance, unless you can see into the future. So for that reason the ability to make estimates for future performance is a prerequisite for any competent marketer, in my opinion.

              What you call "PPC data", isn't merely PPC data, truth be told it is Search Engine data. PPC listings are not only placed on the same page as organic listings, they are often put in the same positions that organic listing are often found. A significant percentage of search engine users have no idea of the difference between an organic listing and a sponsored listing, they often see it as one and the same. If you have been in the game for a while you would likely already know this. I suspect that you probably have been and that you do know this, if not than this is intended to enlighten you a bit.

              You can choose to look at the data in the AdWords Keyword Planner tool as just PPC data, instead of Search Engine data, that is your prerogative. Even so it does not mean it has no value for SEO campaigns. Instead, try asking the question, "how can this help me in my SEO campaigns". That requires a shift in mindset, I realize that can be hard for some people, but I have found it allows for a complete paradigm shift and a lot of aha moments.
              Obviously it generally works, but here's the problem. Say the correlation is 80%, if we decide to go for a keyword that's searched 25,000 times a month and the CPC data indicates extremely high commercial intent and bidders are paying 30$ a click on adwords. If you don't do the SEO research you might not figure out that the number 1 site has NASA.gov links and is basically rank-locked, you didn't figure that out before you started the campaign because you looked in the wrong place for data. I'm sorry but, this mistake is easily avoided. I know what you are saying is usually accurate from personal experience but you can not rely on that data. It's like you're gambling and you're in a world that's dominated by information, not luck. I have no idea why you would even try it because like I said, you can go look at the correct data.

              Edit: I also understand that newbies are taught to ignore that data, but then at some point, you realize it's useful. But sooner or later you're going to realize, no really, it's worthless junk. Especially when the difficulty and size of your projects start to scale up. You simply can not risk significant investments on data that may or may not be accurate. As far as using that data to filter keywords, I mean obviously, why not? As long as you put the time in before you obtain a line of credit, you're fine. But if you're seeking capital and you have not done what I described, I'm serious, you are gambling.

              As far as this being laborious, /yawn I do it with .net, DOM, and XPath, you can completely automate most types of SEO analysis with a few lines of code, obviously I still pull as much data as possible from the paid tools that are worth it. The tools available now are ridiculous, I used to code tools in C with strings of chars and that was fun times, just kidding it was borderline suicidal. I feel really bad for people who try paid advertising without knowledge of R/Matlab and whine about how they just wasted 200$ on Sitescout. Sorry dude I doubt you even got to 97% confidence there, so there goes 200$ and you still don't even know for sure that whatever you tried doesn't work.
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          • Profile picture of the author dburk
            Originally Posted by irawr View Post

            Edit: To be completely clear: I can look at a keyword, build a data model, render that model, and tell you with in -15%/+15%, what it's going to cost to get to #1, assuming the competition does not respond with aggressive SEO campaigns. Your technique could easily be off by 1000%.
            That's cool... reaching a 95% confidence interval can be tough with all of the variables involved. With my method I try to predict how aggressive the competition level is and factor that into the model. The Search Engine data that I get from The AKP tool has a strong correlation to that mean. So I am rarely that far off even when including response from competition. In fact, looking for a way to include response from competition is what drove me to using this method.

            For the past couple of years I have been working on predicting the cost to trigger market abandonment by competitors. Many more variables involved there but there is a correlation with AdWords data, so I am still trying.
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            • Profile picture of the author irawr
              Banned
              Originally Posted by dburk View Post

              That's cool... reaching a 95% confidence interval can be tough with all of the variables involved. With my method I try to predict how aggressive the competition level is and factor that into the model. The Search Engine data that I get from The AKP tool has a strong correlation to that mean. So I am rarely that far off even when including response from competition. In fact, looking for a way to include response from competition is what drove me to using this method.

              For the past couple of years I have been working on predicting the cost to trigger market abandonment by competitors. Many more variables involved there but there is a correlation with AdWords data, so I am still trying.
              Obviously this conversation went way over the heads of most of the people reading this thread. If you are factoring that data into a model that's very different than using it exclusively. I'm sure it's possible to build a model that's accurate enough using that data in combination with other data.

              If I wanted to totally automate it this, I would code a tool to walk the backlinks of the SERP, up to the first 100 results on the KW, collect all data from all tools available (might as well throw GKP in there), go at least 4 levels deep (10+ is preferable), then do linear regression across all the data, and build the model based upon whatever turns out to be the most accurate.

              Once you have a model, you can just run the model on whatever KW to estimate the comp, but I think you would need different models for different levels of difficulty. I don't think the model would be identical for a million dollar a month keyword compared to a thousand dollar a month keyword, simply because the data the tools provide is not totally accurate, and the error would accumulate on higher comps.

              For a competitive term, It would most likely be a billion rows and a heck of a lot of CPU time, but I think it would be worth it if you're serious. If you've gone down this road, I doubt you would ever post your findings here, or anywhere for that matter. The cost would be pretty significant, but that's how you're going to get the most accurate model.

              As far as market abandonment goes, I would imagine the CPC cost trends and the search volume would correlate.
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      • Profile picture of the author saxmanay
        Originally Posted by irawr View Post

        Wow, pretty much every post in this thread is wrong.

        How to check keyword competition for Google SEO:

        It does take a bit of experience, but you just make a spreadsheet of the SERP for the KW, check each site's backlinks to the page and to the domain. Then filter out all garbage spam links, domain tool links, nofollow, or links that are not relevant to the keyword. Those links are all extremely low value (or no value) so don't even bother looking at that them. You may also want to make sure the quality links are still live. Then figure out how many quality links whatever rank you want has, then evaluate the difficulty to reproduce that. Look for things like PBN sites, 301 domains, and lower value links (that work) like directories or resource page links. Also do an on page/site evaluation; is this page highly relevant to the keyword? Does this section of the site have all highly relevant content, or is it just a random post they made about blue widgets on a site about purple panda bears?

        The SEMRush keyword difficulty tool works, but you have to know how to use it correctly. If you throw some random gibberish longtail in and it has data on the keyword, it might say the difficulty is 95%, which is wrong. You need a point of reference, so for example, you are ranked one on a 85 and your competition is ranked one on a 75 but you are not targeting that keyword. Since you already know you can beat that site on a more difficult keyword and you can see that keyword is less difficult, generally speaking you should be able to outrank that site on that keyword as well. But you really do just have to figure that out in the backlinks to that page (both external and internal links.)

        The Google keyword planner is useful for keyword discovery and search volume. That is all. It has no other use in SEO. So you can use it to find a keyword and get an estimate of how much it is searched. If you are using it for anything else, you are doing it wrong. If you are looking at the competition level, that's for adwords, doing it wrong. If you are looking at the cost per click, that is an extremely vague and inaccurate measure of SEO difficulty, wrong.



        I agree with the general logic and highly disagree with the statement "very accurate." If you're determining how much to invest based upon keyword planner data you deserve to be round house kicked to the face. It gives no indication of actual earnings, you're saying potential, potentially anything is possible. It's generally useful sure, it's an estimate, it gives you an idea. With experience you can come up with a range to potentially invest, but that range is going to have two different numbers of digits. The main issue here is, it will never tell you the response your competition will have to you. This "strategy" is effectively the same thing as predicting tomorrow's weather by looking outside today.

        The PPC data might tell you the keyword is "worth 1M/year" but it might take 100M of SEO work to get there. Seriously, the keyword planner is PPC data, if your business relies on SEO, you need to rely on SEO data, not PPC data.
        THIS IS THE BEST REPLY SO FAR.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Personally i use a spytool that unveil my competitors' most profitable keywords and ads for paid and organic search.

    If you do this, you now know what it takes and which keywords to go for..
    Signature
    6-fig affiliate marketer since 2003
    Free coaching to your first $100 dollars. DM me now..
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    really? Keyword Planner for checking competition

    That is a PPC tool and any competitive data you see does not directly correlate to what is happening in the SERPs

    I see lots of highly competitive keywords for PPC and hardly any authority sites ranking in the SERPs

    the answer is check the SERPs to see who is ranking then you will know what the competition is

    Follow the Buffalo's and you can end up like one
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxFerdinandxxx
    Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

    hey all , what are the methods or sites you use to check keyword competition & how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
    Hi,
    awesome that you are interested in ranking your site!

    Anyways to answer your question: You should check out the Google Keyword tool. It's free and super useful!


    Also remember, Google is always looking for great articles. These help you rank tremendously in my opinion.

    Hope I could help you! Goodluck ranking your site.
    Stay awesome!
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    • Profile picture of the author anhvu
      Originally Posted by xxxFerdinandxxx View Post

      Hi,
      awesome that you are interested in ranking your site!

      Anyways to answer your question: You should check out the Google Keyword tool. It's free and super useful!


      Also remember, Google is always looking for great articles. These help you rank tremendously in my opinion.

      Hope I could help you! Goodluck ranking your site.
      Stay awesome!
      Nope! Google keyword tool is just for search key word and study keyword. That is not show the competition. That mean is not the best for this theard. I think many people already give great tool for this situation above like "Moz bar"

      Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author Campbell24
      The best way to check competition is to simply search the keyword in google and see what type of sites are ranking for it.
      Signature
      FREE SEO CONSULTATION/ADVICE (from a 7-figure earner)

      I will answer your SEO questions 100% for free.

      Just ask me whatever you want!
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  • Profile picture of the author stoneseo
    Get the MozBar Toolbar to check the PA/DA of the first 10 sites but at the end you are going to have to check the backlinks of each site to see what types of links thay have. You can use AHREFS or Majestic to check the backlinks of each site ranked in the top 10.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrigmark
    Yes, various tools are available online but first option you must go to Google Keyword Planner and check each keywords competition.
    Signature
    Wrig Mark
    Founder & CEO,
    Wrigmark.com
    SEO Company in UK | Social Media Marketing Company UK
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  • Profile picture of the author Shreyasingh
    MOZ, Google Adwords, SEMRush etc are few of the best tools that can help you to check the keyword competition easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nexstair
    Long Tail Pro works best but you can use Google Keyword planner to get more insight.Also, dont forget to check Google trends :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author LDigitalist
    SEMrush is great for organic or paid keyword research and analysis
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  • Profile picture of the author OussamaBusiness
    Bro , Google Adwords is the service number 1 for keywords competitions
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumon2k7
    There are a lot of tools you can use to check keyword competition. I use SEMRush, Ahrefs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maxcro01
    The Keyword Battle allows you to check your Search Engine Rankings and compare them with your Competitors. This Keyword Ranking Checker is powerful SEO tool that helps you monitor the changes on the Rankings of your website. Select the list of keywords that you are aiming at and the websites you would like to oppose.
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  • Google ad words is used to search a keyword and its competition. Then you have to check that keywords intitle on the google like this intitle;"keyword
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  • Profile picture of the author paladinseo
    for a qucik overview just type in ur kw with " in google and see how many search results u get
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  • Profile picture of the author tekruiter
    Google Keyword Planner is a good way to give you a clear idea about the keywords competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author Unregistered
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddy17
    keyword competition depends on the location you used, globally or local...which defines no. of things related with keyword which you want to check or many tools available online but you cant trust 100% of them
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  • Profile picture of the author ignaciosports
    You can download trial version of MARKET SAMURAI.it is the best tool for analysis keywords and competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author messnct
    I usually check the number of keyword searches. Check the index of the competitors website. That is the work that I check the level of competition of the keyword.
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  • Profile picture of the author shubo
    Originally Posted by saxmanay View Post

    hey all , what are the methods or sites you use to check keyword competition & how much competition is enough for newbie (me) for ranking ?
    use SemRush , LongTailPro or Spyfu software to find keyword competitor:
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  • Profile picture of the author johnbally
    Use keyword planner to check the competition of the keywords. Also i would like to suggest you target those keywords which have low low or medium competition, long tail and good searches.
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  • If you want to check manually, you will need to use Mozbar.

    If you have money to invest, You can go with Long Tail Pro for keyword metrics.
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  • Profile picture of the author nomaanali
    Keyword planner tool
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin McNally
    Here is a decent website that has a free option that you can check some keyword competition based on different criteria.

    http://kwfinder.com

    As others have mentioned Sem Rush and Moz for in depth data
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