Is Google Going to Update PR or PR is Dead??

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Hello Forum Members,

I did not get any PR update from Google for the last 12 months. Is Google going to update PR or is it already stopped by Google? Searched internet. Different source is giving different information. Any idea?

Cheers!!
#dead #google #update
  • Profile picture of the author PaulSch
    That's probably because Google no longer publicly updates PR. What planet have you been living on?
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulSch
    Google just updates its own data which is not available to the public
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    • Profile picture of the author pomelo
      Originally Posted by PaulSch View Post

      Google just updates its own data which is not available to the public
      many people say no assessment pr google anymore but I still think that google pr mentioned in the guide webmasters. Pr proved not dead. And what you say is very likely
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  • Profile picture of the author Kiranattu
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    PR is dead. Google has always had its own internal PageRank analysis, but the public PR number of 0-10 is officially dead.

    If you see anyone talking about the PR for their site, especially someone claiming SEO expertise, that is a red flag they do not know what they are talking about. Do not buy any website because someone says the site has a PR of whatever.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Do not buy any website because someone says the site has a PR of whatever.
      Don't tell them that.
      If some dickheads chose to buy PR site without checking latest news, let them have it.



      fastreplies
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      • Profile picture of the author NestZone
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        Don't tell them that.
        If some dickheads chose to buy PR site without checking latest news, let them have it.

        Those who make this claims are now aware most people got the tricks and the game they had been up-to.

        I always checked on Expired Domains & Dropped Domains and all those which indicated high PR between 3-7 where rapidly registered for traffic reasons, I even lost one of my domains because of its popularity in the local community it was covering.
        Recently I checked the site and a saw a bulk of high PR 6&7 domains we there still unregistered.

        A clear indication PR is DEAD.
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        • Profile picture of the author irawr
          Banned
          Originally Posted by NestZone View Post

          Those who make this claims are now aware most people got the tricks and the game they had been up-to.

          I always checked on Expired Domains & Dropped Domains and all those which indicated high PR between 3-7 where rapidly registered for traffic reasons, I even lost one of my domains because of its popularity in the local community it was covering.
          Recently I checked the site and a saw a bulk of high PR 6&7 domains we there still unregistered.

          A clear indication PR is DEAD.
          You know that there's more going on then just the PR right? That's actually one of the last things I look at. It's nice now because you know the domain has age but that's all. If your throw the domain into ahrefs and see a massive nose dive that's been lasting for 5 years, it's not going to matter if it says it's a pr7.
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          • Profile picture of the author Str8poopin
            Very informative post Dan.

            I agree, 15,000,000 is a lot of links.
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          • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
            Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

            All your arguments and objections of what I'm saying all alone are based on what Google
            been and as long SEO Pros continue to live in Google's past and until they start looking
            forward to accept new Google which got lessons and learn from years and years of mistakes
            and finally got enough of being abused and taken for a sucker, SEO Pros better start looking
            for used shoeshine chair.
            It wasn't an argument, just an observation.

            What are you even trying to say here? That SEOs should start living in some kind of speculative reality when Google seems to work in a certain way?

            I personally don't give a rodents behind about how Google chooses to operate their search. If there's good evidence that it changed today I'd try to adapt to that. I'm pretty sure that most SEOers would do the same. And if/when Google changes we'd see that evidence quite soon.

            Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

            There is nothing ludicrous about believing that backlinks don't have to be a part of algo.
            Once again you're putting words to my mouth. Where did I say something like this? Not everything you read on a forum refers to you or whatever you've said in the past, you know.

            Backlinks absolutely do not have to be a part of the algorithm. I completely agree on that. However, I've not heard about a better way - yet.

            Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

            So, what I'm saying, you have to be open-minded and have aptitude to accept different points of view.
            You know what that sounds like? The favorite non-argument of alternative medicine salespeople.
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            Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

            What's your excuse?
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  • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    Sure & the source is the authors own domain.
    Yep. However, other sources reported this piece, and they had some comments from Google too.
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    Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

    What's your excuse?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

      Yep. However, other sources reported this piece, and they had some comments from Google too.

      There's no Google quote, that's my point.

      Show me a single legit webpage that doesn't use searchengineland as the source (seriously, try a Google search). All roads lead to searchengineland, not any real source (Google).

      Keep in mind the source for searchengineland.com is searchengineland.com. Read a few of Barry's blog post, most of what he post quotes his own domain internal links as a source for news. All he's trying to do is link bait with drama & that John Mueller fetish is just weird.
      • site:searchengineland.com "mueller"
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      • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        There's no Google quote, that's my point.
        These guys seem to have one:
        Google Removing PageRank From Google Toolbar

        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        All he's trying to do is link bait with drama & that John Mueller fetish is just weird.
        Completely agree with this. I don't get why people get so exited over Mueller.
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  • Profile picture of the author HCFGrizzly
    Originally Posted by techntechie View Post

    Hello Forum Members,

    I did not get any PR update from Google for the last 12 months. Is Google going to update PR or is it already stopped by Google? Searched internet. Different source is giving different information. Any idea?

    Cheers!!
    If it were the last 12 months, maybe it would still be ok for people to talk about Page Rank.
    The thing is that Google stopped publicly updating it since late 2013.
    PR is still used by Google, but we won`t know any value from them.
    And the different information on the internet comes from people who don`t have any idea what they are talking about.
    If you want to make an experiment: Ask two people with over 1000 post count to post that "PR is still very useful" and you will see at least 3 'gurus' posting after them and saying that PR is the most useful metric you could use in 2016
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    • Profile picture of the author techntechie
      Originally Posted by HCFGrizzly View Post

      If it were the last 12 months, maybe it would still be ok for people to talk about Page Rank.
      The thing is that Google stopped publicly updating it since late 2013.
      PR is still used by Google, but we won`t know any value from them.
      And the different information on the internet comes from people who don`t have any idea what they are talking about.
      If you want to make an experiment: Ask two people with over 1000 post count to post that "PR is still very useful" and you will see at least 3 'gurus' posting after them and saying that PR is the most useful metric you could use in 2016
      Ha ha ha... I agree with you. Thanks ...
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  • Profile picture of the author rspdelhi
    PR by google is officially dead. It is an old news now....
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  • Profile picture of the author Pdomain
    Banned
    And we don't know what Google will do in future! It may be that Google doesn't update the PR at all, or it may decide to update publicly!

    Google is not God........ even God sometimes takes his word back!

    We have one instance of indexing duplicate content, at one time, Google was too strict to duplicate content but later it has to change the rule thinking that of news websites.....

    Also with EMD, later Google knew that there are many brands that use the name in domain.....

    I hope you understand me a little, I'm not much experienced but whatever I'm telling by reading from here and there over the few years.
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    • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
      Originally Posted by Pdomain View Post

      Google is not God........ even God sometimes takes his word back!
      Would you please give us a couple of examples?
      If 'He' have promised you 12 inches tool but then went
      back on his word and give you only 3, won't count.



      fastreplies
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      • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        Would you please give us a couple of examples?
        Zeus once was like "Trojan blood rulez ok", but soon he was like "must've been drunk lol".

        This other time Yahweh was like "all went to shitter, gonna drown them all lol". Except for this one dude and his floating zoo. He's such an indecisive deity.

        You know the story about the golden calf? Allah was like "gonna kill them dead lol", but Moses was like "plz don't be doing that sad face". So He was merciful.

        Much later Google execs did all the coke, and they were like "hey lets include this Google+ in everything". So they told their minions to shaft the user base. Eventually they made a pinky pact to never speak of this again.

        Originally Posted by arpitamishra View Post

        I wont say PR is dead. Infact Google might still be using it as a ranking criteria internally.
        They most certainly are. If they weren't, things would be working quite differently.
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  • Profile picture of the author a0adio0
    I think PR is pretty much dead in the water. I think a better metric to follow is your MOZ domain authority and page authority, if you want something concrete. https://moz.com/learn/seo/domain-authority
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    • Profile picture of the author HCFGrizzly
      Originally Posted by a0adio0 View Post

      I think PR is pretty much dead in the water. I think a better metric to follow is your MOZ domain authority and page authority, if you want something concrete. https://moz.com/learn/seo/domain-authority
      Of course, my good sir.
      Keep up the good work and one day you will be a full level 85 fire breathing SEO master.
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  • Profile picture of the author arpitamishra
    I wont say PR is dead. Infact Google might still be using it as a ranking criteria internally. Personally, I would care less about PR. Why think about something on which I dont have any control?
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  • Profile picture of the author Gustavo Woltmann
    PR is still alive just not for the public. It will never updates for you anymore but Google is updating it for itself. It has been like this for a few years now.
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    • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
      Originally Posted by arpitamishra View Post

      I wont say PR is dead. Infact Google might still be using it as a ranking criteria internally.
      Originally Posted by Gustavo Woltmann View Post

      PR is still alive just not for the public. It will never updates for you anymore but Google is updating it for itself. It has been like this for a few years now.
      You do know that PR based solely on backlinks?

      So, what you're saying that Google conscientiously using backlinks which
      it knows in most cases bought and sold by thousands to calculate ranking?

      My question is: why to kill PR in a first place and not let it be as it was before?



      fastreplies
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        You do know that PR based solely on backlinks?

        So, what you're saying that Google conscientiously using backlinks which
        it knows in most cases bought and sold by thousands to calculate ranking?

        My question is: why to kill PR in a first place and not let it be as it was before?



        fastreplies

        They never killed PR. Everything is at it was before. We just no longer get any glimpse into the PR data. That is the only thing that changed.

        And Google's entire algorithm has always been mostly dependent on backlinks, despite people buying backlinks. Nothing has changed about that either.
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        • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          They never killed PR. Everything is at it was before. We just no longer get any glimpse into the PR data. That is the only thing that changed.
          You didn't answer my question.
          Why not to continue to show "Public" PR if there is nothing wrong with using backlinks
          as metrics they are representing?
          Why going after toolbar PR starting as far as 2006-7? You know what happen then, right?
          Why use something that Google know is poisonous, something it have declared war on
          and trying to fight for 10 years now?



          fastreplies
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

            You didn't answer my question.
            Why not to continue to show "Public" PR if there is nothing wrong with using backlinks
            as metrics they are representing?

            Why going after toolbar PR starting as far as 2006-7? You know what happen then, right?
            Why use something that Google know is poisonous, something it have declared war on
            and trying to fight for 10 years now?



            fastreplies


            Well for one public PR was flawed & allowed scammers to sell fake PR to noobs.
            1. Redirect webpage to any known high PR page on the web.
            2. Wait for PR to update.
            3. Remove redirect.
            4. Sell fake PR page/domain.
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            • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Well for one public PR was flawed & allowed scammers to sell fake PR to noobs.
              Well, then the whole system based on backlinks is flawed.
              What stopping scammers from selling to newbs the same old bullsh*t:
              "PR is still ticking and kicking, buy backlinks and be well"?

              And BTW, you didn't answer my question



              fastreplies
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

                Well, then the whole system based on backlinks is flawed.
                What stopping scammers from selling to newbs the same old bullsh*t:
                "PR is still ticking and kicking, buy backlinks and be well"?

                And BTW, you didn't answer my question



                fastreplies



                Most of what you're posting here are questions, I picked one & gave an answer.

                Sure the whole system is flawed, we know followed links from authority pages rank other pages.

                It's no big secret, the pagerank recipe has been online from the very beginning...






                2.1.1 Description of PageRank Calculation

                Academic citation literature has been applied to the web, largely by counting citations or backlinks to a given page. This gives some approximation of a page's importance or quality. PageRank extends this idea by not counting links from all pages equally, and by normalizing by the number of links on a page. PageRank is defined as follows:
                We assume page A has pages T1...Tn which point to it (i.e., are citations). The parameter d is a damping factor which can be set between 0 and 1. We usually set d to 0.85. There are more details about d in the next section. Also C(A) is defined as the number of links going out of page A. The PageRank of a page A is given as follows:
                PR(A) = (1-d) + d (PR(T1)/C(T1) + ... + PR(Tn)/C(Tn))

                Note that the PageRanks form a probability distribution over web pages, so the sum of all web pages' PageRanks will be one.

                PageRank or PR(A) can be calculated using a simple iterative algorithm, and corresponds to the principal eigenvector of the normalized link matrix of the web. Also, a PageRank for 26 million web pages can be computed in a few hours on a medium size workstation. There are many other details which are beyond the scope of this paper.
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      • Profile picture of the author irawr
        Banned
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        My question is: why to kill PR in a first place and not let it be as it was before?
        To make it hard to game the system and give massive corporations a gigantic advantage in the SERPs, which those corporations are also the biggest spenders on adwords, which is how Google makes all of it's money.

        They're also the biggest spenders on SEO and marketing.

        Google is a business, they don't want individual people ranking on keywords like "mortgage refinance."

        If I can easily get to the #1 spot on that keyword, then why would I ever spend money on adwords?

        In another thread, I exposed a massive corporation doing exactly what the professionals in this thread do to rank sites.

        In another thread, I also explained that current professionals are happy that public PR is dead. It's job security for us and it makes the lives of the hacks in the business much harder.

        The only thing this killed, was the little individual person who doesn't know jack about SEO from ever ranking well, without doing legitimate marketing. You no longer have the ability to take a gigantic list of sites, sort them by page rank, and then get a followed link from each one to rank your site. To be fair, that strategy kind of died a long time ago. If the links aren't on pages with relevant content, then they're probably worthless or at the very least, very low value.

        So why not let it be? So they make more money. It's Really Simple... It's also the same reason for the recent adwords changes.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulgl
          Originally Posted by irawr View Post

          To make it hard to game the system and give massive corporations a gigantic advantage in the SERPs, which those corporations are also the biggest spenders on adwords, which is how Google makes all of it's money.
          You do not know how adwords works.

          Google charges the best advertisers less.....

          If you are one of the lesser ones, you must pay more...or worse yet:
          Your ad never gets shown. Even if you bid tons of money.

          To someone who does not know how adwords or google work,
          it does not make any sense.

          Large corporations get cut rates, leading to more ad buys.
          It's money well spent.

          So of course one company, like Amazon, is going to
          spend waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than one joe blow
          company. They buy more ads.

          There are plenty of joe blow companies that would love
          to get that top spot that amazon gets. But guess what?
          No matter what they offer, google seldom lets them in.

          Google's bottom line is satisfaction of searcher. Period.
          Not what someone is willing to pay for an ad.

          Many searches go ad-less. Go figure. You just don't
          know what people are searching for. It's not for
          bluebird pink shower curtain reviews

          With your logic, google would sell adspace on any
          and all searches. But they don't.

          But hey, like I always say...

          Google employs the best engineers on the planet.
          So, since google is just not making money, go
          put in your application.

          I can't believe this idiotic thread is still alive.

          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
            Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

            Large corporations get cut rates, leading to more ad buys.
            It's money well spent.
            Do they really? A honest question. I've never used Adwords enough to be on this level so I don't know. It would fit to what I know about Google, but if you have a reference I'd be happy to see that.

            On the other hand, I feel that it wouldn't make much difference. The big players are able to hire or contract seasoned Adwords operators who know how to get good quality scores. They're able to stomp the little guys.

            I've been part of the team in couple of organizations that had an assigned Google contact. You can ask those guys to take look at your campaigns. The ones I've worked with seemed to honestly want to help you. Good customer service can mean more money to them in the long run even if they optimized a campaign so that it was more efficient.
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            • Profile picture of the author irawr
              Banned
              Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

              Do they really? A honest question. I've never used Adwords enough to be on this level so I don't know. It would fit to what I know about Google, but if you have a reference I'd be happy to see that.

              On the other hand, I feel that it wouldn't make much difference. The big players are able to hire or contract seasoned Adwords operators who know how to get good quality scores. They're able to stomp the little guys.
              I agree, no idea there was volume based discounts.

              To PaulGL: Here's the thing, this is a complex problem for Google. They can't let Google turn into Goto, because that was a failure at the end. So they do need have a balance between quality and earnings, which technically, anybody who owns a website that generates income has to do the same thing. Unless you're a blackhat or something.

              Google is also funding many companies through venture capital, who rely heavily on the organic space. So if they choose to squeeze the organic serps hard with adwords, they're kind of just shifting their profits around.

              My point was that everything Google is doing is an attempt to make the SERPs more competitive, not less.

              At some point though, this will get a bit ridiculous, in 10 years are people going to be writing 15,000 word pillars of content to rank on keywords like "Best My Little Pony Episode?" I just checked the SERP, we might already be there...
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          • Profile picture of the author Tim3
            Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

            best shower curtain reviews

            It's Alive!!!

            h**p://**w.bestshowercurtainsreviews.net/
            Signature

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            • Profile picture of the author irawr
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

              It's Alive!!!

              h**p://**w.bestshowercurtainsreviews.net/
              0 Total Backlinks

              SO confused right now.

              I would ask if you reanimated that but I don't have any idea why you would have.

              If I owned that, I know what I do would do with it. :looks at GSA:

              Edit:



              What is going on there? Is that a 404 page shower curtain?
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              • Profile picture of the author Tim3
                Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                0 Total Backlinks
                SO confused right now.
                I would ask if you reanimated that but I don't have any idea why you would have.
                Paul's made-up example of yout typical, thin, spammy affiliate site is always fun to see in print

                I had the sudden urge to look it up, just in case...

                Lol, somebody must have looked at the WF for niche ideas.

                All I will say is...
                This ranks above it in Google for the EMD....

                In modernization, taking shower inside shower curtains is very popular. People use the shower curtain to hide their body from outside. Shower curtains can make people feel relax when they are taking shower.
                say no more
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                • Profile picture of the author irawr
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

                  Paul's made-up example of yout typical, thin, spammy affiliate site is always fun to see in print

                  I had the sudden urge to look it up, just in case...

                  Lol, somebody must have looked at the WF for niche ideas.

                  All I will say is...
                  This ranks above it in Google for the EMD....

                  say no more
                  LOL I have a bunch of those in other niches. Formula for them is: 20 pages of content from iwriter, make sure you reject all garbage and ESL writers, the first decent one you get, see if you can get them to do a few more. Start with about 5 jobs. Once you have the articles or at least have the majority of them, find an expired domain that makes logical sense for the content (ideally it has links already.) Get it all setup, then setup about 10 different options in everyone's favorite tool (no comments) spend awhile setting it up. Then just give the site little spray, say like 1,000 total links. No need for proxies, just use a VPN. It's more of like a signal to Google to let them know it's official. Alternatively you can do 5 minute "articles" with dragon naturally speaking and submit them to anywhere that will give you a followed link. About 50 is enough. Either way try to keep the project under 150$ total. See if you can get a shared hosting account and pay annual, like $25-30 for the year.

                  Then just walk away from it for 6 months, forget you own it. Then check the stats, you're looking for a trend here, if it's a pretty consistent traffic level, you're good. If it nose dived, just take the site down and delete it out of google, let the domain expire. Put it back up on a new domain. I had one site make about $5,200 over 2 years (not azon, but similar affiliate) before I let the domain expire because it was terrible. Somebody bought it and did the same thing.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
                    Originally Posted by irawr View Post

                    LOL I have a bunch of those in other niches. Formula for them is: 20 pages of content from iwriter,
                    Haha, I know a few people who do that too. I've thought about but just couldn't drag myself to do it, it's against my religion to publish spammy content in case anyone reads it
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                    • Profile picture of the author irawr
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

                      Haha, I know a few people who do that too. I've thought about but just couldn't drag myself to do it, it's against my religion to publish spammy content in case anyone reads it
                      Use the VPN, register an email address at mail.com, use one of the vanity domains, make a facebook account with that then change your email on the FB account to admin@thincontent.domain

                      Use a dog or a cat as your profile pic. Be a 50-60 year old female (who is married) and make a realistic profile.

                      Maybe do one of those reviews for Wealthy Affiliate, so if it comes down to it, a manual reviewer might feel bad for you.

                      If you own a bunch of those, I suggest you setup an autoresponder, just use the same sequence on each site and mass replace the names with a mass replace tool. Maybe customize the first 5 emails for each site.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

                      Haha, I know a few people who do that too. I've thought about but just couldn't drag myself to do it, it's against my religion to publish spammy content in case anyone reads it
                      Just about 70% site people have asked me to look at on this forum are pretty close to that.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tim3
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Just about 70% site people have asked me to look at on this forum are pretty close to that.
                        I assume you're not joking at all.

                        You must have a cast-iron constitution, after reading 10% I may have jumped off a tall building.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

                          I assume you're not joking at all.

                          You must have a cast-iron constitution, after reading 10% I may have jumped off a tall building.
                          nah after awhile you just get used to it. when you get a page or site thats good you are more shocked.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by paulgl View Post


            Google's bottom line is satisfaction of searcher. Period.
            Not what someone is willing to pay for an ad.
            Pure and complete nonsense. Period

            Google is a company and the bottom line for companies is cash. The fact that Google gives discounts for big buyers would in no way shape or form changes that fact. Of course companies give discounts to big buyers - because the volume makes up for the discount - more cash.

            Proof positive that google is not all about the satisfaction of the searcher? If your quality score was not up to snuff they could just tell you - forget it we won;t place you. Do they do that? Nope. one of the solutions they give you is to bid higher - give us mre cash and we will put you higher.

            This pure absolute crazy nonsense that people blather on about google only caring about the end user is just so silly. Did users say "hey to satisfy us let us see four adds instead of three on top of the organic".

            I can't believe this idiotic thread is still alive.
            Seriously when you post such totally illogical Google kool aid you really shouldn't be calling any thread idiotic.
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            • Profile picture of the author Pdomain
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Pure and complete nonsense. Period

              Google is a company and the bottom line for companies is cash.
              I don't agree with you here!

              Had Google not cared for society, it wouldn't have become so big. Even bigger than Yahoo and Bing.

              I assume, all companies want to earn money but here to deal with internet community you have to show how helpful you are to the society.

              Apart from the good search quality, Google has many places that are very beneficial to the society, and from these places Google earn very little money and let the public enjoy with the latest stuffs that are hard to find on the internet.

              These places are Google Translation, Blogger, Maps, Drive, Gmail, Calendar, News etc.

              Google always tries to maintain the simplicity while doing the great work.

              On the contrary, I see too much greediness with Yahoo, with full page add when you login Yahoo Mail and other services of Yahoo as well.

              I know Google earns from these places (Google Translation, Blogger, Maps, Drive, Gmail, Calendar, News etc.) but it doesn't let the public feel that these are totally commercial places.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Pdomain View Post

                I don't agree with you here!

                Had Google not cared for society, it wouldn't have become so big. Even bigger than Yahoo and Bing.

                The amusing thing about that "logic" is that people online do a complete 180 on that when the company is Microsoft. Huge company that many on the same internet don't like. Google cares about cash. get over it. denial is futile. The evidence is everywhere. does that mean that they do things illegal or evil? No but it sure doesn't mean that their one goal is the satisfaction of users.

                I don't know why people have to be so silly about a corporation and believe all the nonsense the corporation puts out. Use your noggin people!. If Google cared about the search users experience period - then why put four PAID slots above organic results column?? You spend all this time and money and research to give the best results possible to the user because you care about them finding the best sites organically and then BAM you put four ads on top of all those best sites that people can just pay cash to leap over?

                If google cared just about quality and user experience then why when your adwords QS is low can you bid higher to overcome lower quality?

                Like I said.....Use your noggin people.

                I assume, all companies want to earn money but here to deal with internet community you have to show how helpful you are to the society.
                Nope. You just have to have good product that people want to buy. Market economics 101. Photoshop is the defacto best graphic editor on the planet used by designers because of its features. The Adobe board could all be convicted for murder and people would still use Photoshop.

                These places are Google Translation, Blogger, Maps, Drive, Gmail, Calendar, News etc.
                everyone of those either directly or indirectly bring in cash. but hey if you want to believe in the tooth fairy then be my guest.

                On the contrary, I see too much greediness with Yahoo, with full page add when you login Yahoo Mail and other services of Yahoo as well.
                .
                dude seriously....Life tip. Trust, be a fan of and love individual people you know personally and buy companies products. Fan boyism of corporations that exist to make money is totally illogical.- Whether that company is Google , Microsoft , Yahoo or Apple. A lot of the times its the opposite of what you claim. companies like Yahoo run ads to survive whereas companies like Google could do fine with less ads.

                On the contrary, I see too much greediness with Yahoo, with full page add when you login Yahoo Mail and other services of Yahoo as well.
                and yet you ignore the ads on almost every page of google results and those ads are not even fixed price but based on an auction system to make Google the most cash they can.
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            • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              If your quality score was not up to snuff they could just tell you - forget it we won;t place you. Do they do that? Nope. one of the solutions they give you is to bid higher - give us mre cash and we will put you higher.
              But they do tell you, don't they? It was clearly visible from the UI of Adwords back when I was using the service, and I think I've even seen some on-screen messages about low quality scores. I'm not sure if it's changed, but back in the day you couldn't just bid high for something. Their algo would eventually kill the ad or campaign, but it's likely that you'd receive a fair warning before reaching that point.

              They do this simply for the reason that perceived relevancy is the selling point of their service. Even the ads need to be about the topic. Many users won't care if they click a result or an ad as long as it's somewhat relevant to their search.

              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              This pure absolute crazy nonsense that people blather on about google only caring about the end user is just so silly. Did users say "hey to satisfy us let us see four adds instead of three on top of the organic".
              You're right: they're selling ad space and targeting services. End users and gathered data is something that they need to reach that goal. Google cares about end users in the same way that farmer cares for their cattle.

              Originally Posted by Pdomain View Post

              Had Google not cared for society, it wouldn't have become so big. Even bigger than Yahoo and Bing.
              WTF? The reason Google is so big is their product that has been the best for the longest time. Or rather, several products. YouTube is going downhill, but it's going to be relevant for a couple of years at least.

              The founders got lucky, and started at the right moment. They've recruited the best talent, bought a lot of companies, and their management hasn't messed up big time. They've not been that evil although that cute slogan doesn't ultimately seem to matter to them.

              That's about it.

              They're also known to avoid taxes, strong arm local governments, steal or copy interesting technologies that weren't for sale, make shady deals with suspicious governments, and so fort. Even when they seem to be sponsoring laws to keep internet free it's in their self-interests.

              Google seems to release all kinds of nice free tools. There's at least two huge benefits for them: they keep people talking about their toys, and get a lot of goodwill from the geekiest and most internet-savvy demographics. Some of these tools would've been extremely hard to monetize, at least at the time of initial releases. Translation was a joke for a long time, and most of the other tools you mentioned have free, very cheap or desktop alternatives. It was their best move to try to grab another industry under their umbrella by releasing and pushing a free tool.

              Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

              all and I mean all you "SEOs from the past" from now on can do the only thing
              Mike is clearly have defined: guessing.
              It's always been about educated guessing. PR has been rather stale or potentially false. Google hasn't been that forthcoming about the internals of their system. In essence there's a huge black box that you can feed things into, and see what happens.

              This would be also the reason why there's so many different opinions and even completely ludicrous notions on how Google search operates.
              Signature
              Links in signature will not help your SEO. Not on this site, and not on any other forum.
              Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

              What's your excuse?
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              • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
                Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

                It's always been about educated guessing. PR has been rather stale or potentially false. Google hasn't been that forthcoming about the internals of their system. In essence there's a huge black box that you can feed things into, and see what happens.
                All your arguments and objections of what I'm saying all alone are based on what Google
                been and as long SEO Pros continue to live in Google's past and until they start looking
                forward to accept new Google which got lessons and learn from years and years of mistakes
                and finally got enough of being abused and taken for a sucker, SEO Pros better start looking
                for used shoeshine chair.

                Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post

                This would be also the reason why there's so many different opinions and even completely ludicrous notions on how Google search operates.
                There is nothing ludicrous about believing that backlinks don't have to be a part of algo.
                Example: directories.
                Yes, not all directories are equal. Our directory used very sophisticated algo created
                by ex-Google employee that uses votes, reviews, clicks and keywords ‘of course’ for
                ranking, which BTW can be seen as percentage of match in search results next to link.
                YP doesn’t use backlinks.

                So, what I'm saying, you have to be open-minded and have aptitude to accept different points of view.

                fastreplies
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                • Profile picture of the author danparks
                  Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

                  YP doesn't use backlinks.
                  ahrefs shows that yp has over 15,000,000 backlinks. Yeah, as in 15 million+ backlinks. Right, I'm sure those don't help yp rank at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

        My question is: why to kill PR in a first place and not let it be as it was before?



        fastreplies
        the answer is simple

        Money.

        It suits google to keep people as much as they can in the dark about the strength of pages and the links on them. Google is out to make money and does not care a whit about organic rankings or any of the stuff they have been claiming and people have been buying they say they care about. The more in the dark the business are the more likely they will be to buy and bid higher on adword slots.

        In many serps the entire top results above the fold are bought and paid for and in many the first organic SEO affected result is actually position 8 and below.

        Here's a bonus admission you won't hear from many SEOs

        Because its all about cash - SEO is dead for many serps and keywords, DEAD. There are now a ton load of keywords where the best SEO is going to give you is way down the page ranking (as mentioned before real position eight and below).


        if you get the eight spot then fine take it but you should not be either paying good money or expending effort for it. ranking number one organically for those keywords means little and with the volatility of algo changes you can't even be sure of one so with all the bought stuff at the top you can just as easily stall or drop to real position ten or second page.

        Keyword research should now include screenshots of the pages and serps like the ones i mentioned should just be avoided (unless its local only you are going after). this is what google wanted - the best option for many businesses in very competitive niches is to buy adwords. Keep people in the dark as much as you can on the other serps and they might give in and spend money on adwords too.

        Its all about the cash.
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        • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          the answer is simple
          Not as simple as you're trying to paint it in your post.

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          It suits google to keep people as much as they can in the dark about the strength of pages and the links on them.
          No, it’s not. If this were the case, then G. would kill toolbar PR in 2007.
          You obviously don't know what happened around 2007.


          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          The more in the dark the business are the more likely they will be to buy and bid higher on adword slots.
          Ah, according to you G. has been lying about adwords have no effect on SERP whatsoever?
          So, when it says that they have 2 different systems, we shouldn't believe Google?


          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Because its all about cash - SEO is dead for many serps and keywords, DEAD.
          I see, it explains now why you’re making backlinks a focal point of SEO.
          New SEO Pros slogan: screw Google, keywords are out, long live all you can
          buy and sell Backlinks

          You sure have not very flattering opinion about "hand that feeds you".
          The good thing there is antitrust laws that are keeping G. from doing what you're
          claiming it does, screwing SERP in the name of adwords.

          You will say: how can you prove that G. is breaking Laws?
          Well, I can't but what I know G. is not some underground shady company somewhere in
          third world country where it can get away with stuff you're claiming it involved and that
          competition like Bing not to mention Dept. of Justice would be all over G. if it does any
          of thing you are accusing it to do.



          fastreplies
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          • Profile picture of the author irawr
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              • Profile picture of the author irawr
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                      • Profile picture of the author irawr
                        Banned
                        I should. I'm pretty successful, I don't need to be on these forums. I'm just here to try to help people out. Meeting somebody like you that is just so incredibly resistant to learning is really upsetting.

                        Why don't you do this: buy two domains, setup wordpress, make sure to put up 5 pages of 500 word content, then build links to one domain. Make sure the page titles are indentical on both sites and the topics are identical as well, but the content should be worded differently, the sites should be on 2 different c class IP blocks.

                        I promise you, if you fill out 300 directories, you'll get accepted to a few (especially the blog directories) and then can A/B test what it's like to have no links vs some low value links and I'm sure you'll realize how important links are.

                        Or, don't do directory links and setup GSA to give your site a nice little spray of spam, of say 1,000 links and see how that works out. (Note: there's a guy who spammed over 1,000,000, he's still indexed, and he's ranked #2 on a keyword that has mild-low competition.)

                        http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...-services.html He posted about half way into the discussion.

                        Or better yet, setup a 20 page site, then go to the services section of these forums, you're looking for private network links. Setup google analytics, buy the service, then watch your ranks shoot up.

                        I don't recommend doing that because often times the link sellers here sell garbage links that either run you the risk of getting penalized, or they fall off and you lose your ranks. The site with no links won't rank period.

                        The amount of time you've wasted arguing about this, you could have just tested it.

                        Think about this really hard, any way you run that test, what do you think is going to happen? The site with no links will out rank the site with links? It won't...
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                      • Profile picture of the author Pdomain
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by fastreplies View Post

            No, it’s not. If this were the case, then G. would kill toolbar PR in 2007.
            Actually they regretted ever releasing it. It did them no good. Your logic is flawed. Sometimes people and companies simply reverse themselves or improve. SHucks they used to count all kinds of scuzzy link and now they don't - so umm since they didn't do it back in 2007 that means something? rofl....You are funny though

            Ah, according to you G. has been lying about adwords have no effect on SERP whatsoever?
            Might try a reading comprehension class. Said no such thing

            I see, it explains now why you’re making backlinks a focal point of SEO.
            Why wouldn't I for the keywords that are still viable for seo. Do you need some links to reading comprehension material I mentioned earlier? SEO isn't dead for every term just for some its no longer viable (why in the world waste time and effort reaching organic number one when its nearly at the bottom of the page? Keyword research should now include finding terms that are not dominated by four adwords results, maps and info boxes pushing the term down waaaaay below the fold ).

            Read slower and you just might grasp words and phrases better (and put a dictionary next to your keyboard and use it occasionally when you see words you don't know).


            You sure have not very flattering opinion about "hand that feeds you".
            The good thing there is antitrust laws that are keeping G. from doing what you're
            claiming it does, screwing SERP in the name of adwords.
            when you are finished with the reading comprehension issue you might go read up on the law. Antitrust issues have nothing to do with placing ads on your own property

            Here, googled it for you

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._antitrust_law

            You will say: how can you prove that G. is breaking Laws?
            Nope. wrong again . I'd say you are just totally and absolutely clueless on the law (and probably SEO as well) . Companies making moves to make more money by selling more space on their own sites is not illegal and has nothing to do with antitrust laws.

            Every nitwit on the web knows that placing more ads at the top of the results is to make more money. You are the only one in the dark thinking that's illegal.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Really Google isn't doing anything as far as people buying or selling links, example, look at all the DA, PA, TF, etc... questions/comments.

    If you can't have the real thing (ex: PR) just make up some diy metric & people will buy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author irawr
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Really Google isn't doing anything as far as people buying or selling links, example, look at all the DA, PA, TF, etc... questions/comments.

      If you can't have the real thing (ex: PR) just make up some diy metric & people will buy it.
      I always just ahrefs the seller. /shrug

      I realize people without experience have no idea what they're looking at.
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  • Profile picture of the author KylieSweet
    Most of the people overlooked on the "Google's killed PR" issue its only hiding it to gain more money from the marketers. Google is wiser that they think.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by KylieSweet View Post

      Most of the people overlooked on the "Google's killed PR" issue its only hiding it to gain more money from the marketers. Google is wiser that they think.

      Like I already said, it doesn't matter If public PR exist because buyers still exist & fallback on diy metrics (DA, PA, TF, etc... ) as If it's PR.

      If Google was wiser than we think, public PR would have never existed. They shot their own foot years ago releasing that data to the public.
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  • Profile picture of the author shujainali
    In my opinion google is not going to update! PR is dead now
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by shujainali View Post

      In my opinion google is not going to update!
      Are you sure? It's only been 3 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author mich800
    The smart money has moved to Alexa.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Lol, this thread is starting to remind me of the flame wars from 2 or 3 years ago.

    Good times.
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    • Profile picture of the author irawr
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Lol, this thread is starting to remind me of the flame wars from 2 or 3 years ago.

      Good times.
      Know any Golf writers? I picked up a golf domain and I don't know anything about golf.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    For those that need proof, Pagerank is still alive & kicking.

    Paul Haahr (Google) 9:22 in the video below mentions Pagerank, dated March 2016.

    In other words, as usual nothing has changed, pages rank the same way they did 10 years ago. It doesn't matter If you can see the public PR numbers, follow the followed link profiles...

    [source thread]

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      For those that need proof, Pagerank is still alive & kicking.
      Thats No proof whatsoever

      Thats a video of a GOOGLE ENGINEER. As an employee in that department AT GOOGLE. HE CAN STILL SEE AND USE PAGERANK.

      The public cannot

      which is why to the public (everyone not at google in the search engine division)

      PAGERANK IS AS DEAD AS YOUR WOOD FLOORS.


      It doesn't matter If you can see the public PR numbers, follow the followed link profiles...
      Of course it matters and thats what has changed BIG TIME. constantly denying that makes no sense whatsoever

      You can't see the PR of the link profiles either. So basically you are just guessing. just like Majestic or Moz (admittedly Majestic is better) only they do it with a ton load more scientific factors (but yes still trying to guess but with ton load more data than anyone here has) .
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        That No proof whatsoever

        Ok, prove a followed backlink profile on authority pages won't rank a money page.

        Need help with finding authority pages?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Ok, prove a followed backlink profile on authority pages won't rank a money page.
          Why would I when no one is claiming that authority pages don't rank sites. Pagerank being dead to everyone but Google doesn't mean I cant know a link from CNN will tend to be good for SEO. Pagerank is a precise measurement of a pages strength. The precise measurement is gone . That doesn't mean strength is gone just the measurement.

          Thats a big change no matter what you claim. before i could tell at least within a few months how Google valued a page with a set metric. now I only know what it was going on three years ago. Soon if reports are accurate I won't have that either

          Which person over ten years old can't see the big difference and change there?

          Need help with finding authority pages?
          outside of the ones i already know? No not really . i can do the same thing you do

          Guess.

          Try to fool the newbs otherwise.
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          • Profile picture of the author fastreplies
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Pagerank is a precise measurement of a pages strength. The precise measurement is gone . That doesn't mean strength is gone just the measurement.
            Strength based on thousands of bought links, eh?

            So, the engine is gone but we still making 0 to 60 in less than 5 seconds.
            Very interesting.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            No not really . i can do the same thing you do

            Guess.
            Exactly my point...
            all and I mean all you "SEOs from the past" from now on can do the only thing
            Mike is clearly have defined: guessing.

            Non of you know what Google is going to do tomorrow (my point) except hoping
            that stupid Google won't change old proven to be totally corrupted system and
            the things are going to stay the same so you can continue to feed from good old
            bottomless SEO soup pot.

            So boys, keep Guessing



            fastreplies
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  • Profile picture of the author nettiapina
    Originally Posted by blah View Post

    Ah, according to you G. has been lying about adwords have no effect on SERP whatsoever? So, when it says that they have 2 different systems, we shouldn't believe Google?
    That's not what he said. Not even nearly so.

    Google is selling ads to their results pages witch of course will change the dynamics and link placements of the actual search results, but that's not the same as Adwords actually affecting SERPs.

    Originally Posted by blah View Post

    You sure have not very flattering opinion about "hand that feeds you".
    I, for one, don't. SEO is a parasitic industry that operates around a web behemoth that doesn't really give a toss. This would be totally irrelevant to them if there wasn't the problem of spam and gaming the system.

    But that's how life works. You've been around, and eventually seen the beast behind the facade of "Don't be evil". You don't like what you saw, but it's still the best game in town. Not only that, but their most successful competitor is a repeatedly convicted patent troll of a corporation, and rather incompetent in this space.
    Signature
    Links in signature will not help your SEO. Not on this site, and not on any other forum.
    Who told me this? An ex Google web spam engineer.

    What's your excuse?
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  • Profile picture of the author vohimanshu
    RIP Google PR One should focus on PA and DA now. I see, there are many websites still selling backlinks based on PR. Well, who can trust them now
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  • Profile picture of the author tami9191
    PR is internally updated, but not published for webmasters due to misuse.
    Signature

    Tamil arasan - https://genuineonlinefreejobs.com/. Thanks you.

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