How to monitor seo's effectiveness? Let me pull down my pants and let you have a go!

41 replies
  • SEO
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Hi All,

As you have seen from my previous posts, I am fence sitter when it comes to IM. I amass info but never act on it.

In fact I employ one very well known member here to work on one of my sites. I wont mention his name here, but I'm sure he is fine by this post as his work is great.

We are two months into the project (almost the start of our 3rd) and I am unsure on how to really assess the projects effectiveness. I am a new business and every penny is critical and accountable! I've just spent over $1000 on this projects seo alone and can honestly say I havent a single click through from it.

I know work is being completed as I get a monthly report, but in the absence of any traffic to date, is there another method of measurement.

Am I being too pushy as a client (I should really know seo takes time) but when its your own business you become impatient, sadly too quickly.

I'd be keen to hear all your thoughts guys

Kaizen
#effectiveness #monitor #seo
  • Profile picture of the author sdkWriter
    Hello Kaizen, without knowing more about your seo efforts, I'm afraid I won't be able to provide too much assistance, but I thought I'd give it a try anyway. I don't mean to sound insulting or elementary here, but oftentimes I've found that some business owners optimize for keywords that they think searchers will be using only to later find out that their customers were searching using a completely different keyword phrase altogether. Yes, results from SEO takes time, but for it to be meaningful, the target audience needs to be identified, and more importantly, keyword research must be performed to ensure that you're optimizing for those keywords that your potential customers are/will be using.
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  • Profile picture of the author turbohips
    Yup we would have to know a few things here. One being the keywords and the keyword search volume per month. I mean we on the forum don't need to know but you should know this info. Also what is your position on the SERP's? This has a big affect on your online visibility. If your click through rate is low it might have to do with the two factors mentioned above. Also with any business you need to judge if your expense will recoup from the possible gains. I have no clue what you are selling and the time it will take to recoup from the initial investment.

    With my business it's almost entirely service based meaning only my time is spent and no actual costs on my end. My overhead is only my server and internet connection with occasional phone usage. My profit level is ridicules so my business model is great. You have to examine your business model a tad to see if this is something worth pursuing.
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    brit momaday leight
    Larry Leight

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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      Hi Guys,

      thanks for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. My site is relatively new and the purpose of the project was to get ranked in the serps for a number of key terms with monthly searches of 1200/4600 and more (locally) and in quotes 4,680 / 29,800 competing sites. I know there are more effective ways of assessing competition, but this is for ease of analysis

      A backlinking campaign was started from day one however 1 backlink shows from the link:www. in google.

      I have to say, I am a very patient person, but just don't like being taken up the river without a paddle.

      I'm sorry I cannot pm, to those who have messaged me.
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  • Profile picture of the author chriswight
    Go download the SEOBook tool bar and run the Rank Checker for the keywords you are targeting. Keep track of your rankings and their changes each week to assess progress. With search numbers that low, you probably won't see much traffic unless you're on page 1. Most sites don't see any traffic on rankings past page 3, regardless of search volume.
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    Chris Wight
    www.ChrisWight.com

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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    I'm not ranked for any of the keywords chriswright. BTW the initial cost also included a site/keyword analysis based on my product/what is being searched for.
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  • Profile picture of the author chriswight
    You're not ranking for them at all? Wowzers.

    Are these keywords being used on the site at all? Are they in the title tags? Are you using them as the anchor text in you inbound links?
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    Chris Wight
    www.ChrisWight.com

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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    I'm gonna say yes! But right this second we are making updates to the blog/site and as a result they are not, but this has been from 10am this morning and will be finished tomorrow am.

    TBF I've had little advice on changing the site content to suit seo offpage.

    I see where this is going....
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      Slight update:

      After being assured that all work has been carried out in house by a team of 8 staff.

      I have not been receiving reports because VAs "may be on holidays"

      FFS its been two months
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  • Profile picture of the author 2d0k
    $1,000 for SEO within 2 months? I think you can outsource the same effective SEO at a cheaper price..

    Anyway, there are many ways to track your sites' progress.. You can use Alexa, BacklinkWatch, different free SEO tools you can find anywhere, and especially Google Anaylytics.. You just have to collate the different data from these tools and I'm sure you can get a clearer picture of your sites' SEP progress..
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    a couple of kind folk off here have had a look at the site in question, and one was fairly shocked at what I had and hadnt received.

    I'm thinking outsourcing the key bits is going to be key from now on. I'm a more than patient person, but I have to say, I'm very disappointed and now getting angry

    An unhappy warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author 2d0k
    If one of your main goals is to rank in SERPS, why not out source backlinking services.. You can get them at a much cheaper price, usually worth about $30 to $90 only..

    I suggest you go to the WSO forum thread and you can choose from these kinds of services.. Just choose what you think is the most effective one..

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    anyone you can recommend for keyword analysis?
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  • Profile picture of the author 2d0k
    None that I know of.. I do my own SEO as I try to apply things that I've learned here.. There's this Angela backlink service that every body is talking about.. Check it out.. As for me, I don't outsource.. I personally apply what I've learned through trial and error to see who is telling the truth from garbage SEO..
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      So I cancelled the contract with immediate effect (still two weeks paid up) and you know what. I didnt hear from the warrior since.

      More than anything I'm disappointed that I have wasted 2 months on this warriors efforts and the money could have been really useful.

      If anyone is interested in some work, I have a budget to work with.

      But I've learnt my lesson that I want daily updates and goals...
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    New more befitting title
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    • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
      Daily updates are a little unreasonable if you're also expecting results on a daily basis. Some days sites go up, some days they go down.

      But yes, you were probably screwed by someone either unwilling or unable to help you. But I don't know all the details.

      It pays to familiarize yourself not only with techniques, but reasonable goals and expectations as well. I would suggest learning whatever you can in order to put up a very simple site completely by yourself. Then build a link every other day or so and watch what it does. With less than 5000 exact searches per month you'll only see traffic if you're on page 1, and it might only be a few people if you're near the bottom.

      If you have a broad experience with all aspects, then you might be able to better understand the needs behind them and what they're worth.
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      Initrode Consulting -Boulder SEO, Copywriting, Editing, Website design, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    hey tjcocker thanks for your reply.

    I have a firm grasp of whats required in seo to suceed, but lies of what has been completed/what is being worked on and lack of any updates has been the issue here.

    The more I think of it, the more angry I am and want to name and shame so no one else follows in my footsteps.

    I agree, daily updates are a bit too much, but by-monthly updates are just appalling
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  • Profile picture of the author HomeComputerGames
    I looked into some of your competitors for your various categories.
    Take the keyword phrase: A6 Flyer Printing
    There is not a single backlink going to the page that holds the number #1 global position from where I sit.
    Seems like it would be a piece of cake to dominate. :confused:

    Since you have an understanding of what is needed perhaps draft up a task list and outsource what you tell them you want done?
    3 articles about "A6 Flyer Printing" . 1 article posted to 10 article directories for the next 3 weeks...etc..

    This way you would know what is being done.
    Or hire a consultant to help you draft up a task list/SEO-SEM plan for you to outsource adhoc.

    Once you have your plan then it is just a matter of putting it into action at your discretion.

    my 2 cents
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    yes, I am....

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  • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
    Name the name! The walk of shame is a good lesson for anyone.
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    Initrode Consulting -Boulder SEO, Copywriting, Editing, Website design, etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author turbohips
    That sucks that it was a forum member. I've been actually called on the phone by one without posting my number anywhere. He said he found one of my articles and tracked it to my main site to get the number. After talking with him for about 15 minutes I already knew that I had more knowledge than him with regards to SEO and decided to hang up. Honestly one of the best WSO's that I've purchased came from Terry. Maybe that small investment will help you recoup the money that you've lost. If you wanna PM me with some more details then I might be able to help lead you in the right direction. Honestly I've only spent roughly $500 over the last 9 months for my site promotion and I'm #1-100 for 44 keywords. Many of which are on the first pages of Google, Yahoo and Bing. Just PM me with your number and I'll chat with you for a while.
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    brit momaday leight
    Larry Leight

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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
    Kaizen, don't name and shame, against WF rules, you will just risk getting your account banned. What good would that do? WF rule is, got a problem w/ another Warrior, take it up with that person in private.

    Also, sent you a PM. Sorry to hear about your sour experience with outsourcing.

    Karen
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    • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
      Didn't know it was expressly forbidden. Let's explore:

      Pros: It would allow other people to know that they shouldn't trust said person without a pay per performance fee structure. Also, said person would re-evaluate their strategies and perhaps improve.

      Cons: It would expose someone that's preying on others..... Don't see how that's a bad thing for the forum. Also, it could cause a flame war between both people. So what? People will stop reading the thread when it becomes boring.

      Making everyone "just get along" for the sake of peace doesn't allow us to progress. If I were that person, yes I would hate being outed at first, but as I've experienced it's only through failure that we learn anything.
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      Initrode Consulting -Boulder SEO, Copywriting, Editing, Website design, etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      What if they dont reply to your emails?


      Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

      Kaizen, don't name and shame, against WF rules, you will just risk getting your account banned. What good would that do? WF rule is, got a problem w/ another Warrior, take it up with that person in private.

      Also, sent you a PM. Sorry to hear about your sour experience with outsourcing.

      Karen
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    I wont post the name here but I'll give you an update of what happened step by step.

    I read a very impressive thread on here that gave me so much confidence in the ability of this seo guy.

    I complained. Now when I say complained, I laid out my grievances and it was agreed that the seo guy didnt actually perform the tasks as his staff had let him down

    "Asses were kicked" apparently

    the anchor texts I mentioned as potential keywords were being used and non relevant (3rd choice) ones were dominant!


    Following the thread I emailed the person and negotiated an agreement of $700 per month for seo. The seo guy talked the talk and gave me confidence in his services as he had worked for massive companies (funny he didnt name any)

    This was on the 7th October. By the 20th october I received an seo report of my site which was basic to say the least.

    After this he had an associate work on keywords, however this associate did not contact me in any shape or form and I am still to receive the keywords.

    The first excuse was illness on the 24th October, again on the 27th October. I explained this was rally disappointing and a refund was offered. As this could have happened to anyone I let it go.

    On the 28th I was asked what I thought the keywords to rank for should be. Looking back I should have just realised this guy was conning me, but to be fair I was blinded by what could be.

    On the 5ht November I asked for my first report as I'd been promised weekly updates and had received none. The seo guy admitted he wasn't in the office and would get back to me. After further emails requesting this report, I got it on the 10th Nov and there was only 100 backlinks to report. Nothing more. I checked half the links and they werent for my site or didnt link at all.

    On the 13th Nov, the next invoice was due - funny how this was on time. But as a gesture of inadequacy I was given a month at half price on the premise that communication would be rectified.

    I got a couple of emails of "what would be done" and a "secret" picture of how things work.

    On the 18th a press release was distributed to i-newswire.

    Last communication until 2nd december when I asked about the LBC promises made at the start of our communication.

    I requested more updates and got an email saying the VA hadnt responded to him and he wasnt in a position to give me an answer.

    This was my last communication with him as he hasn't replied to anything I have sent.

    The warrior in question -

    N.B. I was assured there was a team of 8 in-house staff all based in the USA and that he didnt use VAs as this would cause delays and he liked to be in control of things.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    guys apologies for the rant.

    A close family member dies on Sunday and its hit me quite hard
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  • Profile picture of the author tjcocker
    Sorry to hear about that, and everything else.
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    Initrode Consulting -Boulder SEO, Copywriting, Editing, Website design, etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      Personally I liked the guy and this prob clouded judgement. But as a brand new business, I can not honestly afford the misspent income (to be honest, this was my buffer fund) and it has gone now with little result or chance of action.

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  • Profile picture of the author turbohips
    Well if you were serious then you would have PM'ed me by now.
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    brit momaday leight
    Larry Leight

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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      Originally Posted by turbohips View Post

      Well if you were serious then you would have PM'ed me by now.
      Sorry for not replying to everyones pm's. I have been organising a funeral which is today.

      I posted in anger here last night but havent read through the posts yet! But I will
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    Let me pull down my pants and let you have a go!
    ...and you were raped by your SEO guy.

    Normally I wouldn't expect huge gains to happen in 2 months for $1,000 you should be seeing some results.

    Personally I liked the guy and this prob clouded judgement. But as a brand new business, I can not honestly afford the misspent income (to be honest, this was my buffer fund) and it has gone now with little result or chance of action.
    There is more than enough information here to learn everything you need to know to take care of this stuff yourself.

    Good luck
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    I'm all about that bass.

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  • Profile picture of the author logodesigner
    If you want to check on the legitimacy of the conversion ratio reports you get from your advertising company, you can implement a simple tracking method. By using redirects or a link program, you can assign specific links to the different sites where your ads are appearing.
    When a customer clicks on your ad, they will then be taken directly to your site, but you will be able to see how they reached you. You can find this information either in your Web site's log files, if you are creating redirects, or through reports generated by a link program.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonmorgan
    don't name and shame, against WF rules, you will just risk getting your account banned.
    Now that doesn't exactly seem fair.

    Just about anybody is allowed to pitch and sell anything here. If people are allowed to constantly promote their products and services then buyers should be allowed to call them out.
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    I'm all about that bass.

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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    logo designer - we use google analytics for that. Not one of the keywords has been utilised. All traffic has come from my e-marketing or referrals from sites I'm on.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    Yeah still no response from this warrior. ****ing joke to be honest
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  • Profile picture of the author Jayson L
    No results at all. That is nuts. Drop the service and employ services here on the warrior forum you can controll. Order 100 profiles per week from someone like tamileseo, have someone write unique articles for you and submit them. I have used Marx for that (slow turnaround time, but worked nice and worth the wait.) There are also service that will social bookmark for you. Have someone write a couple of press releases, then submit them. This should get you some results! It has for me. My numbers for this. 100 profiles @ $30 per 100 X 4 $120. Social bookmarking 100 for about $6-10. Press release 2 @ $50 each approximately. Aritcle writing through Marx plus distribution to 27 directories $8 each. Were at $250-$300. You would see links showing up in google doing this. You need to take controll of your services your using so you can get the most out of every dollar if you want this to work.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    Cheers Jayson

    This is exactly what Im doing now and if I ever get a response from the warrior in question I'd like to know exactly what was done.

    Already getting back links built by a new supplier and they are great.

    Thanks to the ind offers of help from the warriors who pm'd me. This week has been bloddy mental, but I'll be getting back to you all individually

    Thanks

    kaizen
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    So I got a response from the so called seo guy.

    More or less shrugged off my questions and left by saying thanks for the business.

    2 days later I get emails from blog owners saying my website has spammed their blogs.

    This is not on!
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
      I'd also like to warn fellow n00bs about such experts promoting their wares (I know there are trustworthy folk out there), but be sure even if they sound like an expert, they may be talking a whole heap of bull.

      Forum rules prevent me from naming this fella and its a crying shame.

      I almost feel like getting the authorities involved for fraud
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        You posted that you canceled the contract - so why would he contact or respond to you? If you canceled the contract, what are you getting angry about?

        It sounds as if this person you supported fully 10 days ago is now bad because of feedback from people in this thread who know only what you have posted.

        That makes no sense. Sounds to me like you need to be your own contractor and hire people to do various pieces of SEO work - articles, backlinks, etc. You seem to have hired someone who outsources the work. Those people he hires do not answer to you but to him. If you require daily updates - you need to paying a full time salary to those people. Most outsources have many clients and don't work on each one every day.

        I am fence sitter when it comes to IM. I amass info but never act on it
        That's a big problem as knowing what to do and doing it are not the same. You learn by doing and it's hard to judge someone else's activities if you don't know step by step what should be done and how easy or hard it is to get results.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author kaizen0909
    Kay while I did not fully support the seo guy, I did level an amount of "business trust" on this person who assure me he had 8 of a staff in his own offices. After digging and digging I find more and more things that disturb me. Not due to this threa. This thread is to serve a warning to fellow members that not everyone, regardless of how genuine them seem is in fact credible.

    I am angry at a wasted $1000 as any person would be. I have now outsourced my work to my own VAs and am getting the work done and weekly reports on what has been accomplished.

    Agreed, you learn by doing, and if nothing else, it was a costly lesson.

    The matter is not resolved and for want of a better word, I was conned by a fellow member. If this was any other business transaction and good weren't presented my solicitors would be actioning this. I ask, why is this any different in online marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author taralomas
    Don't mean nothing
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    Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.
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