Why your backlinks very likely wont do anything (or at least not as much as you think!)

Fun to Write

14 years ago

Thanks GeorgR for this well researched info.
I've suspected this for a long time.

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hotftuna

14 years ago

Here is my way of thinking to determine if a link stragegy is helpful or risky:

I imaging that I am telling an algo engineer at Google (who knows what sites I own) how I am going to get links.

If I think that this engineer would approve, I go for it. If I think he would try to slap my site, I don't.

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blueice

Banned 14 years ago

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by blueice

I dont think any method is "dead", it might be devalued. Google is pretty smart and I`d guess is asks a few questions (in code terms) about a link. One important question would be "could this link/page be generated by someone other than the webmaster"

Comments, profiles, forums and web 2 pages will not carry the same weight as an "in webmasters content" link.

Not many people mention it, but out-linking is just as valuable.

Hi blueice,

It's refreshing to see someone with true insight participating in this forum. You rarely hear anyone discuss outbound linking strategies here.

I don't put all Web 2.0 properties into the same category. In some cases you are the webmaster of your subdomain and control all of the content as long as you don't violate TOS. Properties like Blogger.com and Wordpress.com can be very effective when used responsibly.

The key is to build merit based links. These type links are less likely to be regarded as spam. "Attribution in exchange for contribution" (© Don Burk - All Rights Reserved.) is a Google sanctioned method of link building.

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Hyaku_Man 14 years ago

Armageddon is near!

I've always done a mixed bag of all types of backlinking and it's still the same as always. Some sites drop in rankings and some go up, the average is the same despite whatever has happened.
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WareTime 14 years ago

Originally Posted by blueice

One important question would be "could this link/page be generated by someone other than the webmaster"

Ding ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I was saying the same the other day in the "are Angela's back links dead" thread.

Google is still almost all about the links, but it's slowly getting pickier and will only continue in that direction.

And to the naysayers that believe google is not able to tell a content link from a comment link - are you nuts?
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sarah_may

14 years ago

Well, if you have a lot of low quality links from the pages that are of PR0 or some times not even indexed by google then it will not benefit you. but if you just have a few high quality links form most relavant, High Pr or authoritative sites then it will sure benefit you in ranking and all ways.

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sarah_may

Well, if you have a lot of low quality links from the pages that are of PR0 or some times not even indexed by google then it will not benefit you. but if you just have a few high quality links form most relavant, High Pr or authoritative sites then it will sure benefit you in ranking and all ways.

But what i am saying is exactly the opposite.

There is no way that you get many "high quality" links without (naturally) having even more "low quality links". The principle of the pyramid, look at the picture.

I think Google (respective their bots/computers) is smart enough to expect that a site with, say, 20 "high quality links" might have 100s of "low quality" links since this is to be expected. Everything else is not natural.

Also, the key of all this:

Due to how a "link pyramid" looks and also in regards to the time-factor...its almost impossible to automate this. (Aka: "Built a link-wheel in 5 minutes with SENuke")...its indeed right that NATURAL building of links might be the best way to go.

The pyramid is actually not a new "method"...but rather a image/depiction of how *a real* natural backlink structure usually looks:

Very Few High Quality Links
Medium Volume Medium Quality Links
Many,Many Low Quality Links

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MarkAse

14 years ago

Doesn't it seem like we have these same conversations day after day? Which types of links are dead? Which ones are good?

I know certain link ideas give better results, but all the fads still can help over time be it link wheels, forum profiles, articles etc etc. The key is solid daily effort and the results will come, I think people lose sight of realistic expectations sometimes.

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jazbo

14 years ago

Just keep building links, mix it up and keep going.

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Fraggler

14 years ago

Yeah, I agree, George. It is pure probability.

There might be 10x the amount of PR0 sites on the web than PR5 (to illustrate my example). If the linking was natural and your site attracted attention of a niche market then there should be 10x more PR0 people linking to your site than the PR5s.

For an expert site (PR5) to start linking to your page, there should be a lot of random sites linking to it as well. The thing is, even more people will/should be linking to the expert site than the source of the information for your niche. But, the source of the information is still more relevant to the reader. The expert site is just like a doorway. I think this is one of the principles of the Hilltop Algorithm. Google should put your site (authority) above the expert.

A linkwheel might contain the PR within itself but it is a very unatural method without also promoting or exposing the properties. Why does Property 1 link to Property 2? Neither property 1 or property 2 shows signs of being an authority or an expert on the subject as it has no outside exposure.

You can create a mini-network to create a false sense of authority and expert references but you will need more than a link wheel to do it. Use your link-wheel at the starting point base of the pyramid and build the pyramid below it. This base will slowly but surely become the high quality links. Don't be afraid to link to other authority sites in the same articles/locations as your own links either. Matt Cutts has hinted several times that quality external links may play a part.

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darman82

14 years ago

Hi Gorge, to want to say thanks for your research.

since i was newbie, i didn't notice that i'm doing backlink strategy the wrong way. cause from what i learn from ebook that i invest. they all tell me to build link from high PR site and i didn't mix with low and medium site. Maybe that's why google found that my site was "un-normal" ( many high PR site and small amount low PR site )

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AP 14 years ago

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- whateverpedia 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AP
  
  Paid traffic beats SEO all day long.
  
  Don't need no stinkin Google.
  
  Except when you're paying Google for that traffic.
  
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  Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
  So that blind people can hate them as well.
  
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- GeorgR. 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AP
  
  Paid traffic beats SEO all day long.
  
  Don't need no stinkin Google.
  
  So you dont talk about adwords otherwise you wouldn't say you dont need stinkin' Google. Partly, i agree, but then i never had real success with "paid traffic"..so i would like to know what you refer to.
  
  You talking about PPV?
  
  I disagree in a sense because true organic traffic works great for me and there is nothing better than ranking a site (or article) for a "good" keyword and enjoy the free traffic and sales from a #1 Google position...but feel free to convince me otherwise in regards to paid traffic.
  
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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Sigh. This just seems like a rehashed version of your post from 12/4 George (at least the half of it about Google's comments). As many of us of us stated in that thread, we'll believe it when we actually see it. If there is a upheaval for the top ten sites that rank for "cheap viagra" we'll know that Google is actually coming through as you think they are/will.

I just don't see it happening.

It seems like you are having a personal vendetta against certain types of backlinks, despite the fact that they *still* help many of us rank well in Google. Then again,we all know that you are very high on article marketing/links (just check your sig), which is fine, but lots of us get backlinks in other ways and do very well with them. You just have to come to grips with that fact.

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

I was researching a bit in regards to linkwheels, linkwheel creation with SENuke, backlinks in general.

I gathered the following information (eg. from the SENuke forum and other places)..as well as recent discussions here in the forum (Angela/Paul links)

*) Linkwheels are already dead respective called "a fad". The makers of SENuke themselves say that right now better success is coming from "Link Pyramids"

Read this How to Use "Link Pyramid" Structure to Boost Your Search Engine Rankings
which explains nicely what a "link pyramid" is.

Recent discussions and comments also led me to believe that angela/paul method is dead...as well as recently published comment by Google themselves in regards to "Comment Spamming"

Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Hard facts about comment spam

Now, i have to say, what some SEOs say in regards to the "Link Pyramid" sounds very solid....its simply spoken to "simulate the most natural" way of backlinks.

I also came across some other blogs where some SEOs said they have indeed the best ranking results with such "link pyramids".

It makes sense to me since i just cannot see how Google can be fooled so easily..eg. someon creating 10 web properties on Squidoo, Weebly, Hubspot etc., linking to each other and to your "money site" It does NOT look natural. G. knows that many SEO use those web2.0 sites already, i am sure.

The same with article submissions. Say, in an attempt to build some ranking i submit to 30 article directories with my links...maybe even in one day. BS...or "wishful thinking" probably.

Or: What if my site would all of a sudden get 10 high PR backlink PR5-PR9 within a week? Again..i am pretty sure that Google thinks this is not "normal" since we could expect that a site with 10 HIGH PR backlinks would for sure have MANY MORE low/zero PR backlinks - and not good PR links in a few days!

Looking at that "link pyramid" it is clear that people might want to re-consider their linkbuilding strategies - and that a natural link structure (or as natural looking as possible) might be BETTER..maybe even random links with random PR.

And let's not forget that time-frame plays a role too, but we know this already.

Just saying, the next time you purchase "backlinks"...maybe think twice because it might not produce the results you think.

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Sigh. This just seems like a rehashed version of your post from 12/4 George (at least the half of it about Google's comments). As many of us of us stated in that thread, we'll believe it when we actually see it. If there is a upheaval for the top ten sites that rank for "cheap viagra" we'll know that Google is actually coming through as you think they are/will.

I just don't see it happening.

It seems like you are having a personal vendetta against certain types of backlinks, despite the fact that they *still* help many of us rank well in Google. Then again,we all know that you are very high on article marketing/links (just check your sig), which is fine, but lots of us get backlinks in other ways and do very well with them. You just have to come to grips with that fact.

Yes, but the posting had a new background because i just read that linkwheels might be "dead" while i did some research how to use SENuke effectively.

I also wanted to mention that Google statement again since i don't think it's cool to make a statement "Google said ..." without giving the source..otherwise people might ask whether i made that up, or i need to refer them to the old thread ..so bear with me.

No, its not a personal "vendetta", as so many i do (respective let do) the usual link building efforts for some of my sites..but it becomes clear now that those "classic" ways of getting links might not be as effective as we all thought. Maybe this is old news for you or for some, but it's relatively new to me

Aka "Just get a few high PR links" or "just put a few articles up" or "make a linkwheel" <-- they MIGHT all work to a certain extent...but with far less benefits than what the average user of such services might think.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Fair enough. Incidentally, I like this "fact" by google:

"FACT: Having original and useful content and making your site search engine friendly is the best strategy for better ranking. With an appealing site, you'll be recognized by the web community as a reliable source and links to your site will build naturally."

I take this to mean that no one should be doing articles for backlinks either. Sort of a "build it and they will come" mentality.

I wish the best of luck to anyone on this forum that tries that in a tough niche.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

Yes, but the posting had a new background because i just read that linkwheels might be "dead" while i did some research how to use SENuke effectively.

I also wanted to mention that Google statement again since i don't think it's cool to make a statement "Google said ..." without giving the source..otherwise people might ask whether i made that up, or i need to refer them to the old thread ..so bear with me.

No, its not a personal "vendetta", as so many i do (respective let do) the usual link building efforts for some of my sites..but it becomes clear now that those "classic" ways of getting links might not be as effective as we all thought. Maybe this is old news for you or for some, but it's relatively new to me

Aka "Just get a few high PR links" or "just put a few articles up" or "make a linkwheel" <-- they MIGHT all work to a certain extent...but with far less benefits than what the average user of such services might think.

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Masters Powerlifting

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WareTime

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Sigh. This just seems like a rehashed version of your post from 12/4 George (at least the half of it about Google's comments). As many of us of us stated in that thread, we'll believe it when we actually see it. If there is a upheaval for the top ten sites that rank for "cheap viagra" we'll know that Google is actually coming through as you think they are/will.

I just don't see it happening.

Tru on the viagra etc. But, don't you think the top players in that market have other resources besides what 99 percent of the people here are using? I'm sure they use everything we use plus some stuff we don't know about, don't have access to, can't afford, don't, can't etc.

If they do have access to "other tools" that help them, perhaps those links that some claim are devalued actually don't help the viagra sites much at all, but it is the "other" that's keeping them in the top 10.

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bgmacaw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

Or: What if my site would all of a sudden get 10 high PR backlink PR5-PR9 within a week? Again..i am pretty sure that Google thinks this is not "normal" since we could expect that a site with 10 HIGH PR backlinks would for sure have MANY MORE low/zero PR backlinks - and not good PR links in a few days!

Actually, this is "normal" as long as these aren't the only links you're getting. Sites that go viral, new domains launched by established authority sites and sites linked to from authority news sites will have this pattern. As long as your keyword target isn't something well known for spamming (example, male enhancement or dieting products), you'll be fine.

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

One important question would be "could this link/page be generated by someone other than the webmaster"

What could be those criteria? I have that question all the time in the back of my head. ONE factor certainly is the time when those links are created...but there are more for sure.

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InternetMarketingIQ

14 years ago

"angela/paul method is dead" - That's a pretty broad generalization.

The Fact that Google is pretty good at filtering spam doesn't mean they can stop all of it... even if they want you to believe it.

And the Angela/Paul system is nothing more than pointing out high authority sites. What you do with those sites determines your success.

The bottom line is you create links that create value and you win. Most people link dumping do not understand how to create real value so they are just wasting their time and annoying people.

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Tom Goodwin 14 years ago

The Google "no blog comment spam" post (on Google's own blogspot blog) is absolutely hilarious.

So far, the anchored links (from the author boxes) include:

SEO
blogseotips
Discounted Indian Hotels
Online Medical
Filipina Dating Online

These are all internal links, but I still find it damn funny that stuff like "filipina Dating online" is posting.

I think google should sandbox its own blog
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oscarkool

14 years ago

Yawn...next please. If you think you're going to get traffic without any backlinks, you're retarded unless you caught a trend.

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Why your backlinks very likely wont do anything (or at least not as much as you think!)

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