How much would you pay for PR5 sites?

14 years ago

Forget PR.

How much money does it make?

How high up in the SERPS for desired keywords?

What is the amount of traffic it gets?

I would not pay a dime for a PR5 site that had little of the
above.

Paul

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terryd

14 years ago

Yeah I gotta agree.....PR don't mean a lot to me, I'm much more interested in how much the site makes..

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digitalmediapassion 14 years ago

Yeah having a pr 5 is only one factor. The factors that would be important for me is revenue earned regularly and the marketability of the site
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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Piscola

Thatis it i am rally intrested in your opnion.
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It depends on what you want to use it for.

Unless some of the others who have commented, certainly PR5 sites have good value to me even with no traffic or SERP ranking, but merely in a backlinking strategy for my money sites. It can help out a lot with 0 traffic (well, other than Google). In that regard, typically $1-200 is not unreasonable just for the linking power for me.

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Sandy Cormack

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

It depends on what you want to use it for.

Unless some of the others who have commented, certainly PR5 sites have good value to me even with no traffic or SERP ranking, but merely in a backlinking strategy for my money sites. It can help out a lot with 0 traffic (well, other than Google). In that regard, typically $1-200 is not unreasonable just for the linking power for me.

I've only been observing the GoDaddy auctions for a few days but most of the PR5s I see there are going for over $300, and the PR4s go for $80-90.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sandy Cormack

I've only been observing the GoDaddy auctions for a few days but most of the PR5s I see there are going for over $300, and the PR4s go for $80-90.

Lots of domains have premiums attached to them because of their domain names. If its just linking power you are going after, I focus in on the really bad domain names that I don't think anyone would want because of the domain name. I've picked up quite a few GoDaddy PR4s for around $55 lately. Of course, just like Ebay, I monitor them and pick them up at the last second.

As for the higher PR domains, there's a reason why Terry buys his domains on DigitalPoint (as they are generally cheaper...especially if you buy them directly from domain vendors). I still think its best to pick up PR3s/2s from GoDaddy as they can be had cheaply, often time with very diverse backlinks. I picked up a PR2 domain with 2 interior PR3 pages as a $5 closeout auction last week

Tom

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Sandy Cormack

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

As for the higher PR domains, there's a reason why Terry buys his domains on DigitalPoint (as they are generally cheaper...especially if you buy them directly from domain vendors). I still think its best to pick up PR3s/2s from GoDaddy as they can be had cheaply, often time with very diverse backlinks. I picked up a PR2 domain with 2 interior PR3 pages as a $5 closeout auction last week

Tom

Digital Point makes me nervous - don't yet understand how to sort out the good sellers from the charlatans.

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Spyros

14 years ago

If the backlinks are not natural and come from link farms, they are no good, better stay away from paying for links.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Spyros

If the backlinks are not natural and come from link farms, they are no good, better stay away from paying for links.

If you buy site A, then link from Site A to your other Site B, that is not paying for links. Its as whitehat as snowwhite. Then again, one could keep on trying to write endless articles to EZA instead :-0

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onuel 14 years ago

I would think it takes maintenance to keep the site at PR5 so if you are going to use it just for linkin power it will only be temporary, unless of course you maintain it.

Like others said, there's a lot of factor to consider beside PR to know the value of a site.
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shaktimaan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

If you buy site A, then link from Site A to your other Site B, that is not paying for links. Its as whitehat as snowwhite.

From your point of view link farms can be white hat but not from search engines point of view.

Search engines recommend that webmasters request relevant links to their sites (conduct a link campaign), but avoid participating in link farms. According to Google, a site that participates in a link farm may have its search rankings penalized. Links from related sites carry more weight than those from irrelevant sites.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_farm

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

We are talking about a particular PR5 site. One is certainly allowed to link from one site of their's to another, even in the eyes of the almighty Matt Cutts. In this circumstance, I posit that there is no way for Google to determine the intention of the website owner in question, and there is little risk involved. People can keep hiding in the shadows all they want. Now, if one was to have 1000 sites all interlinked in a way trackable by Google, then sure.

As for relevancy, I know what Matt Cutts/Google says, but my own personal experience (and that of many others on here), is that sites can rank unbelievable well in google with irrelevant links. An authority site on hamsters can still pass a heck of a lot of link juice to an IM site.

Tom

Originally Posted by shaktimaan

From your point of view link farms can be white hat but not from search engines point of view.

Search engines recommend that webmasters request relevant links to their sites (conduct a link campaign), but avoid participating in link farms. According to Google, a site that participates in a link farm may have its search rankings penalized. Links from related sites carry more weight than those from irrelevant sites.

Source: Link farm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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shaktimaan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

We are talking about a particular PR5 site. One is certainly allowed to link from one site of their's to another, even in the eyes of the almighty Matt Cutts. In this circumstance, I posit that there is no way for Google to determine the intention of the website owner in question, and there is little risk involved. People can keep hiding in the shadows all they want. Now, if one was to have 1000 sites all interlinked in a way trackable by Google, then sure.

As for relevancy, I know what Matt Cutts/Google says, but my own personal experience (and that of many others on here), is that sites can rank unbelievable well in google with irrelevant links. An authority site on hamsters can still pass a heck of a lot of link juice to an IM site.

Tom

I expect in the future you will not call it white hat. For google ranking i also feel it is better than blog commenting, profile links and other link building methods. Not tested yet. Going to test it in the near future.

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samcarson

14 years ago

Tom, let's say, I have 25 sites that I link to from the blogroll of a PR5 auto blog, would that divide the page rank to all the outgoing links?

Sam

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stefffff

14 years ago

depends on several factors: traffic you get by day, where your visitors are you targetting: US visitors are the most valuable... how old is your site?

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Piscola 14 years ago

I agree with tom than the only purposef this PR5 site is get it as a link farm and probably the sell a pr5 backlink from th blogroll.
thanks for the input guys.
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dburk

14 years ago

Hi Piscola,

Please allow me to clarify a few things.

Sites aren't assigned PR, PR is assigned to individual pages.
PR is not for sale - it is assigned by Google and will not neccessarily transfer with the purchase of a website.
If a page has a PR 5 with little or no corresponding trafffic it is likely fake or being manipulated to inflate the value of a sale and therefor not likely to transfer with a purchase.
PR is internally updated in real-time but only made public once every few months, so there is no way to know the real current PR.

In my opinion it would be very foolish to value a website based upon PR alone. Traffic would be a much more reliable metric and you should understand the source of the traffic to determine the likeliness of those sources continuing to generate traffic after a purchase is consummated.

@Tom,

I believe you underestimate Google's ability use granularity beyond the level of a website topic. All major search engines have the ability to analyze relevance down to the individual HTML elements.

Google in particular uses prominence and proximity to determine relevance at an even more granular level within individual elements. They have done this from the very first beta versions of their search engine. Sergey Brin and Larry Page have extensively documented this ability in their earliest public documents of the Google search engine technology while still students at Stanford.

Tom, I have enjoyed your intelligent and articulate posts and believe you will have little difficulty grasping the core principals Google employs when you read their documentation.

Constantly referring to website topics as an indication of relevance is not useful since search engines are far more granular in their analysis of relevance. It would be more accurate to say that search engines never try to determine website relevance since it has no practical application in their technology.

Website topic relevance remains primarily a technique of website directories and search engines were invented to overcome the limitations of such techniques. When one attempts to inject the goals of a website directory onto the performance of a search engine I must question that persons fundamental understanding of the role of a search engine. Search engines were developed to specifically to go beyond the scope of a website topic and determine relevance within individual sections of individual documents. This is fundamental.

I would like to see this forum become a source for reliable and accurate information. I do not mean to hurt anyones feelings by pointing out what I believe to be inaccurate assertions and I welcome that scrutiny in my own assertions. Please point out where I am wrong.

My basic assertion is that search engines where designed to determine relevance of sections within documents and to impose "website topic relevance" would be highly detrimental to their efficacy. So any discussion of that implies "website topic relevance" as a factor that relates to SEO is based on a false premise. However, if members of this forum continue to make this assertion over and over you will eventually convince some readers that this false premise is somehow valid, which in my opinion isn't.

The bottom line is that website topics have absolutely nothing to do with how search engines determine relevance. So it is no mystery why often there seems to be no connection between website topics and relevance. Search engines simply don't work that way. However to imply that relevance of any kind doesn't matter is a severely flawed notion. Relevance, in my opinion is absolutely paramount, not at the site level, but at the document level.

There is nothing wrong in saying that website topics don't matter, they actually don't. But to say relevance doesn't matter is misguided at best and could be highly misleading.

I ask you to look beyond your initial conclusions and ask yourself if you are looking at your results with the same granularity of a search engine.

If you receive a backlink from a page on Wikipedia about "Applied Physics" to your page about applied physics, is it accurate or useful to call such a link "irrelevant" simply because Wikipedia's home page main topic is not about "applied physics"? Yet that is how you constantly refer to backlinks that are, in my opinion, clearly relevant from the perspective of a search engine.

Does it matter more what you perceive as relevance, or what Google perceives as relevant? I would suggest that it is far more useful to understand how Google determines relevance rather than create our own constructs.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Piscola,

Please allow me to clarify a few things.

Sites aren't assigned PR, PR is assigned to individual pages.

Fair enough

Originally Posted by dburk

PR is not for sale - it is assigned by Google and will not neccessarily transfer with the purchase of a website.

I'm definitely going to have to disagree somewhat with that. Over the course of >100 site purchases with sites with existing PR, every single site that maintained its backlinks kept its PR during the subsequent Google PR updates. These include sites that were expiring, but none were officially dropped. This is over the course of the last 2 Google PR updates.

Originally Posted by dburk

If a page has a PR 5 with little or no corresponding trafffic it is likely fake or being manipulated to inflate the value of a sale and therefor not likely to transfer with a purchase.

Going to have to disagree again

PR is determined by incoming backlink quality. You can have a PR6 with zero traffic. Just have 1 or two PR7/8 links coming in, and voila.

One can have quality incoming backlinks with zero traffic, one can have quality incoming backlinks with lots of traffic, one can have ****ty incoming backlinks with lots of traffic, or one can have ****ty incoming backlinks with zero traffic.

I even bought a "new" (it had been dropped 30 days earlier) domain that previously was a PR4 before the drop. Well, it had good backlinks, and I wanted them for just the price of the new domain. I added zero backlinks of my own, and guess what? On the April 2nd/3rd PR update, I got a PR3 out of my "new" site. Gotta love the old backlinks.

Originally Posted by dburk

PR is internally updated in real-time but only made public once every few months, so there is no way to know the real current PR.

While this is true, the day of the PR update (which was only about a month ago), you are basically at the exact PR level. Obviously when you buy domains with existing PR, you need to do your due diligence and factor the date of the last PR update into your calculations.

Tom

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

I'm definitely going to have to disagree somewhat with that. Over the course of >100 site purchases with sites with existing PR, every single site that maintained its backlinks kept its PR during the subsequent Google PR updates. These include sites that were expiring, but none were officially dropped. This is over the course of the last 2 Google PR updates.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for clarifying, I not in disagreement with what you stated.

When I said "not necessarily transfer with the purchase", you provided a specific circumstance where it will transfer: "site that maintained its backlinks".

Thanks for providing the condition that is required for maintaining the PR after a transfer. I was simply trying to caution the OP that unless certain conditions are maintained you will not see the PR transfer.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Going to have to disagree again

PR is determined by incoming backlink quality. You can have a PR6 with zero traffic. Just have 1 or two PR7/8 links coming in, and voila.

One can have quality incoming backlinks with zero traffic, one can have quality incoming backlinks with lots of traffic, one can have ****ty incoming backlinks with lots of traffic, or one can have ****ty incoming backlinks with zero traffic.

I even bought a "new" (it had been dropped 30 days earlier) domain that previously was a PR4 before the drop. Well, it had good backlinks, and I wanted them for just the price of the new domain. I added zero backlinks of my own, and guess what? On the April 2nd/3rd PR update, I got a PR3 out of my "new" site. Gotta love the old backlinks.

Thanks again for helping to make the point that I failed to do with my earlier post. I was trying to caution the OP that PR will not necessarily transfer with a purchase unless certain conditions are maintained.

Sadly, there are many folks that have learned how to manipulate PR to take advantage of unsuspecting buyers. A common scam is to link a handful of high PR pages to a brand new website, thereby boosting the PR of the new website's homepage. After the sale is completed the seller will frequently replace those links from his high PR network with links to his next website and repeat the scenario over and over, leaving behind a trail of victims that are unaware of what has happened.

I believe that PR is a quantitative measurement, not qualitative. Again a point I was trying to make to the OP is that PR does not necessarily equate to targeted traffic. We may disagree, but I like to think of backlinks that bring targeted traffic as higher quality than those that do not.

Generally speaking, manipulated PR tends to have little traffic while "quality" backlinks, specifically backlinks from high PR, high traffic and high relevant topic pages will have significant traffic. I prefer to include targeted traffic in my qualitative assessment of backlinks since direct link traffic will typically exceed search engine traffic.

As the saying goes, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Backlinks with targeted traffic are worth more to me than backlinks with just PR and little or no traffic. I'm sure you probably feel the same way. I guess quality is in the eye of the beholder, one man's "****ty incoming backlinks" is another man's quality backlinks. Apparently we have different definitions of "quality".

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

While this is true, the day of the PR update (which was only about a month ago), you are basically at the exact PR level. Obviously when you buy domains with existing PR, you need to do your due diligence and factor the date of the last PR update into your calculations.

Thanks again for helping me to make my point, a buyer should definitely perform his due diligence when making a purchase. An unscrupulous seller may have manipulated the PR to inflate the asking price. The PR could have already dropped since the last toolbar PR update and it's impossible to see this from toolbar PR. By looking at other key measurements, specifically current traffic sources you can get a much better idea of the true value of the website.

PR alone, does not bring you traffic, targeted or otherwise. It simply weights the value of outbound links. PR can easily evaporate if backlinks are from irrelevant pages that you do not control. It would be wise, in my opinion, to examine the nature of the backlinks to assess the likeliness of those "old backlinks" remaining in place for a significant length of time, if you are basing your purchase price on that PR.

As for "****ty incoming backlinks with lots of traffic" I will continue to think of them as "quality backlinks", and your "quality incoming backlinks with zero traffic" will always be my definition of "****ty incoming backlinks". To me at least, quality is all about targeted traffic.

p.s. I had hoped to avoid detailing the specifics of how one might be scammed, in case there is a member or two of this board that falls into that unscrupulous category, didn't want to give them ideas.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

p.s. I had hoped to avoid detailing the specifics of how one might be scammed, in case there is a member or two of this board that falls into that unscrupulous category, didn't want to give them ideas.

I can pretty much guarantee this is nothing new Don. Also, there are much easier ways to fake PR than to give some temporary juice to them from other sites.:rolleyes:

In any event, one can buy good PR sites with no traffic, if you are looking for PR sites to help your other sites rank well. As with all IM work, due diligence must be done. I personally never buy PR domains where the page rank comes from less than 10-20 different domains.

Tom

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TheNewGuy2010

14 years ago

Depends on the niche........but I'd pay several hundred

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derekwong28

14 years ago

$100 to $150

With negligible traffic and backlinks.

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jason_simpson

14 years ago

Well, I agree with many here. PR is not the only thing that we should look for while building links. There are several other factors, like backlinks of the site, traffic, outbound links on that particular page and so on.

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Orkhan Ibad 14 years ago

PR is important, but not as important factor as it once was.

Anyway, you should find authority websites even they are not in your niche. For example, Squidoo, Gather are not niche sites, but they have great effects on site's SERPs.
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- maingi 14 years ago
  
  Hello, It depends on Your website page rank or your site reviews.
  
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  GDesigner 14 years ago
  
  Page Rank means more less today.
  The freshly indexed website may have more traffic and generate more sales than any other with higher page rank.
  
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  Tom Goodwin 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by GDesigner
  
  Page Rank means more less today.
  
  Say what?:confused:
  
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hilaryy

14 years ago

Hey,

yes it is not only about page rank it is also about how many backlinks etc. and it also depend on the rates in market. i will pay same rate as in the market.

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valdivz

14 years ago

if the only thing the website had going for it was a PR 5... I'd probably, maybe and I mean just maybe... I'd give you a nice new crispy dollar bill ($1)

...and that's pushin it...

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Groovystar

14 years ago

For me it depends what I wanted to use it for. Purchasing an ad on that site? Is it relevant to what I'm doing? The site itself--does it generate a lot of traffic? You know it always comes down to traffic and I see some PR 0 sites that get a lot of it.

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HCLee

14 years ago

Your should go over the reasons why you like to buy a link from PR5 first. PR affects only about 20 percent of how well you rank in search engines so it is not going to help that much. For me I'd prefer to focus more on getting higher search engine ranking not getting higher PR.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HCLee

Your should go over the reasons why you like to buy a link from PR5 first. PR affects only about 20 percent of how well you rank in search engines so it is not going to help that much. For me I'd prefer to focus more on getting higher search engine ranking not getting higher PR.

Note that although I firmly believe PR of your ranking site matters 0% (rather than 20%

), there are good uses for PR domains outside of using these for your money site. Many of us buy PR domains as backlink sources for the sites we actually want to rank for, so the SERP ranking of these PR siets is meaningless.

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RokNStoK

14 years ago

I may oversimplify the problem... but can't it be summed up as:

more relevant links = higher Google PR = higher SERP = higher Traffic = Success?

I believe the demise of Google PR has been greatly exaggerated. Although, it certainly benefits Google for people to think PR is dead... something to think about.

Also, be careful about crosslinking websites that you own! I made the same mistake, albeit in a very big way when I first started out. I think every one of my sites were relegated to the supplemental index! I finally got them out by convincing Google of my naivety in the appeal process... scary.

I believe it's ok to cross post websites that you own as long as they are relevant.

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Tom Goodwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by RokNStoK

more relevant links = higher Google PR = higher SERP = higher Traffic = Success?

Here's the problems with that:

A site gets Google PR from getting inbound links from pages and sites with pagerank and authority themselves. These links may or may not be "relevant" to your site, but you can still get PR from them.

A higher PR does not mean a higher SERP ranking. Backlinks can both help a site rank in the SERPs (especailly Google), and get PR. But, Backlinks can help PR, and do absolutely nothing for SERP ranking.

If your domain (which happens to deal with IM and you want to rank for "SEO") gets in a link from a PR6 page with the anchor text "fuzzy bunnies", that link will likely help the PR of your IM domain. But, that link is not likely to really help your SERP ranking for "SEO."

That's the problem with folks saying that PR helps a site rank in Google. You need to look at the backlinks, not the PR. Even with PR, the backlinks may or may not help you rank for the desired keywords in Google.

I do agree with higher SERP = Higher Traffic though ;-) But, since one can have PR without SERP ranking, one can have PR without traffic.

Tom

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dburk

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Here's the problems with that:

A site gets Google PR from getting inbound links from pages and sites with pagerank and authority themselves. These links may or may not be "relevant" to your site, but you can still get PR from them.

A higher PR does not mean a higher SERP ranking. Backlinks can both help a site rank in the SERPs (especailly Google), and get PR. But, Backlinks can help PR, and do absolutely nothing for SERP ranking.

If your domain (which happens to deal with IM and you want to rank for "SEO") gets in a link from a PR6 page with the anchor text "fuzzy bunnies", that link will likely help the PR of your IM domain. But, that link is not likely to really help your SERP ranking for "SEO."

That's the problem with folks saying that PR helps a site rank in Google. You need to look at the backlinks, not the PR. Even with PR, the backlinks may or may not help you rank for the desired keywords in Google.

I do agree with higher SERP = Higher Traffic though ;-) But, since one can have PR without SERP ranking, one can have PR without traffic.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Well said, I agree 100% with your lucid explanation of PR value. PR does virtually nothing to help you rank in SERP. Until you channel that PR through a relevant backlink it means very little to your SEO campaigns.

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Trent Brownrigg

14 years ago

Just the fact that it has a PR5 gives it some value. But it's not worth a lot unless it has SE rankings, traffic, earnings, etc...

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jasonmorgan

14 years ago

Tom, I hate to say it but your preaching to the deaf.

Some people, like myself, completely get what you are saying and are working in similar ways while others don't want to hear it, don't believe it and aren't going to accept it until some mega-guru puts out an over priced WSO telling them to do it.

As far as I'm concerned, let 'em think what they want to think. Means less competition trying to scoop up old domains.

I mean, people have no problem spending $5 bucks for a pack of low value profiles to dump their links on but scoff at the value of spending $20 on a domain that will provide real backlink value. Many of the same people come here crying about why does whatever.com have such a high ranking and page rank when it only has 3 backlinks.

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Arich123

14 years ago

whats your monthly website traffic?

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How much would you pay for PR5 sites?

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