Google rank Stuck. REALLY stuck.

by Groovystar 44 replies
I've been stuck at #4 to #6 for my not so competitive keyword, about 250,000 results. My site is DYING.

I did and do:

facebook, twitter, blog comments, blog roll, forum profiles, forum sig posts, forum link exchanges, footer ads, youtube, a couple yahoo answers, plug boards, you name it.

If there's something I am missing by all means, please..
#search engine optimization #google #rank #stuck
  • Profile picture of the author cpa-money
    facebook and twitter to have any link power. it is just for the traffic.

    and yes it happenes i`m also stuck in those places. you just have to continue build links everyday... it`s a hard job. i have almost 20 sites to take care of and some started to drop down...
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Right, I know they don't, but they are powerful networks that Google likes to see, supposedly, plus both of them drive in human traffic. So we have a promotional FB group and a twitter page. I have only this one site I devote my time to. No others.

    and all those people who push Hubpages for promotion really ought to know it's nofollow as well. I wrote my first and last hub tonight...
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  • Profile picture of the author usearchme2
    What is the keyword your targetting as looking at ur site i cant figure it out ?

    Woc
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Warrior Cats RPG

    As in, my site's domain being warriorcatsrpg.com Proof that domain name does little if anything. ^_^ It is one of the busiest RPG forums on the net...or was...that may not be true for long unless I can get this turned around.

    btw guys thanks for helping me out with this.
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  • Profile picture of the author usearchme2
    Hi there

    Pretty simply it down to your content, as a lot of people do you have just overlooked how important it is.

    For a start you dont have a very good introduction to your site, you should have a kick ass introduction, written properly and get your keyword in there right at the top of ur site

    At the bottom you have a list of sites you seem to be linked to, this is very bad form, and probably why your domain is pr zeroed !

    I could tell you what I think you need to do if you are prepared to listen, but you wont like it lol !

    Woc
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Tell me I've cross posted this to 2 other forums so I'm taking in opinions from many places

    Those affiliate links down there are some of the highest PR links I have and also some of the most relevant. They'll drop me if I drop them.

    I can write a "kickass intro" in the welcome box where it tells guests they should join. I could change that to whatever I need. Remember, this is a fan forum and it is a free service, its main aim is not to make money, though I would enjoy a little more revenue from Adsense on the side
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  • Profile picture of the author usearchme2
    Hi there

    Well for starters your sites codes a mess with and its not a very appealing looking site at all
    Result:583 Errors, 2 warning(s)
    Thats probably the most errors ive ever seen in one page, and will cause you endless problems. So why youve got the validator icon at the bottom of your site ill never know.

    The links at the bottom of the page aint doing you any good, has ur pr always been 0 ? im guessing it hasnt ?

    Link exchanges are bad contary to what some people say and in some cases will be interpreted as you trying to manipulate your google pagerank.

    Plus you have them on ever page, which is even worse lol.

    Now this is the hard bit and its going to hurt lol.

    1) You can either no follow the lot of those links, which will stop them from passing pr and will negate them, the problem with that is if the other sites find out they wont be happy lol

    2) Or move them from your homepage having them on every page is just not going to work in the long term, select a few of the good ones and move them onto a links page.

    Either way the links are holding you back, you probably think they are doing you some good, but they aint !

    Ps i know what your going to say, other people do it blah blah and its worked in the past lol !

    Woc
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    • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
      Originally Posted by usearchme2 View Post

      Hi there

      Well for starters your sites codes a mess with and its not a very appealing looking site at all
      Result:583 Errors, 2 warning(s)
      Thats probably the most errors ive ever seen in one page, and will cause you endless problems. So why youve got the validator icon at the bottom of your site ill never know.

      The links at the bottom of the page aint doing you any good, has ur pr always been 0 ? im guessing it hasnt ?

      Link exchanges are bad contary to what some people say and in some cases will be interpreted as you trying to manipulate your google pagerank.

      Plus you have them on ever page, which is even worse lol.

      Now this is the hard bit and its going to hurt lol.

      1) You can either no follow the lot of those links, which will stop them from passing pr and will negate them, the problem with that is if the other sites find out they wont be happy lol

      2) Or move them from your homepage having them on every page is just not going to work in the long term, select a few of the good ones and move them onto a links page.

      Either way the links are holding you back, you probably think they are doing you some good, but they aint !

      Ps i know what your going to say, other people do it blah blah and its worked in the past lol !

      Woc
      No, I believe you. I guess I could find a designer, or something, so they could replace my graphics I made with ones that look good. For starters. What kind of design do you suggest? Or would just anything be better than the logo and stuff that I have?

      I did the links because someone else using them I saw they got a PR 5 with a lot of exchange links.

      We've been like this at 0 for a whole month now, it's been awful.

      Doing nofollow on the links like that, I heard, that it doesn't negate them in terms of Google seeing a "link farm" on my site. It only stops them from benefiting and so I dofollow them because my aim isn't to shortchange them and if it makes no difference to me why penalise them.

      I don't know how to move them but I guess I could link them in an Iframe, all but a few of them that is? Would that work {an iframe}? It would still display them the same I hope, but just not penalise me as much?

      What is a validator icon? will that help fix the errors?
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        You are looking at this the wrong way.
        Lot's of sites get stuck.

        Stuck in the positions you are in is not bad. In fact,
        it's quite good.

        The problem people have, is that they think that there must
        be some other magic bullet or incantation to boost them up.

        In some niches, this is impossible. There are numerous sites
        that are just plain outstanding and loved by google. Stuck
        above you, so to speak.

        If I started playing golf today, and practiced hours for the
        next week, am I going to beat Tiger Woods? How about if I
        practiced a month? A year? Would if make logical sense to me
        to ask why after practicing for a whole year, why I still can't beat
        Tiger Woods?

        Sometimes your best bet is to tweak what keywords you are going
        for.

        Paul
        Signature

        If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Okay, but how do I tweak the people who join us to search for another keyword? People who join our site, literally 9 times out of 10 searched "warrior cats rpg". Next common one is "warrior cats" and we're on the 2nd page for that one and get NO hits at all for that now. If I don't get back up on #1 for that keyword "warrior cats rpg" I may as well give up and close the site.

    I posted to my forum software's help forum looking for help fixing the errors. Maybe they will be able to find them, because I cannot. I also asked if there is a designer who could replace my lousy design, logo and graphics with better ones.

    We don't have time. The forum has died a huge amount in only a month.

    Someone made me an offer from SEOofIndia that they could get me to the top spot. I don't know if I should accept.
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    • Profile picture of the author usearchme2
      I did the links because someone else using them I saw they got a PR 5 with a lot of exchange links.
      That was a mistake ! Google know that people who do links exchanges generally do it to manipulate pagerank !

      We've been like this at 0 for a whole month now, it's been awful.
      What do you expect ? you have got a website with about 60 outgoing links, so anything that comes into your site goes straight out.

      Its like trying to fill a bath with 50-60 holes init !

      Doing nofollow on the links like that, I heard, that it doesn't negate them in terms of Google seeing a "link farm" on my site. It only stops them from benefiting and so I dofollow them because my aim isn't to shortchange them and if it makes no difference to me why penalise them.
      It hasnt got anything to do with link farms !

      No following the links has everything to do with you its ur site you control your content, and its your site thats suffering because of your links, your shortchanging yourself !

      I don't know how to move them but I guess I could link them in an Iframe, all but a few of them that is? Would that work {an iframe}? It would still display them the same I hope, but just not penalise me as much?
      No idea, the only way to be sure is to get rid of them !

      What is a validator icon? will that help fix the errors?
      The W3C Markup Validation Service type your site in here and no it wont help you fix them.

      Sort your content out errors and links and then you will move forward without doubt!

      Woc
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  • Profile picture of the author RedEvo
    You could always stop building spam links and go for some quality.

    d
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    I would LOVE to. Where do I go to do that? I need some direction.
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    • Profile picture of the author JV3STUDIO
      Submit a few good articles to article directories like ezinearticles. Link to your site using the keyword phrase as anchor text.

      It should be fairly easy to get to #2. But #1 is way ahead of you. It'll take much more work to outrank that wetpaint page.

      Best,
      Jerry
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Our old site had it outranked, though. That's what gets me. What do they have that we don't? Do they have a better look, better content? Because if I need those I will get them somehow if I can't produce them myself.

    Basically, either we outrank them or we die.

    I'm going to have a look at ezinearticles today. I got a bunch of directories I'm submitting to already.
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    • Profile picture of the author JV3STUDIO
      they have PR6 you have PR0. They have good backlinks, you don't. If you want to outrank them you'll have to do a consistent effort at getting quality backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Everyone tells me I have to get quality backlinks and that's what I've been running around for several hours every day trying to find, with no luck at all. Where do I go to find them? What do I do? I'm sorry to sound demanding but people telling me I have to do something is useless unless I know how to do it. I WANT to do it.

    ...Also lots of people telling me PR doesn't matter.

    I am ready to go. I am ready to start. I am running in circles not knowing where to go to get these quality links. You want to know what happened when I actually signed up on the official Warriors site? They banned me for telling another member my link!
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    • Profile picture of the author JV3STUDIO
      articles on ezinearticles, buzzle, goarticles, infobarrel etc. social bookmarking. not a few, many.

      outsource it if you don't know what to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Are those sites high quality links? Ezinearticles seems to keep on coming up. It is a roleplaying game, so I write an article about that?
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Our old site had it outranked, though. That's what gets me. What do they have that we don't?
    They are on wetpaint - that's what they have. If you look at the links to that page (yes, I know there is no program that shows all the links), there is not much going on so, it would seem that what they have is the authority of wetpaint itself.

    It looks like they have been around for a while though so I wonder why they all of a sudden overtook you - were they always there lurking on page1?
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    They were #2 after us, our old site was deleted after we moved, without our say.

    Wetpaint isn't specifically Warriors related. So if that is it, does that mean I could get a quality backlink on some really great authority site that is also unrelated to me?

    i know i looked at their links back last year when I was working on keeping our old site boosted and noticed it was almost all unrelated small nothing backlinks. so i thought that's what i needed, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Palo Coyote
      Hi,
      You have 'current events' and 'up coming events' on your site, that's another name for News. Articles on Ezinearticles are good. There's a WSO that will get you #1 on Goog News, that's quite valuable, (you need an article or News Release) there's another WSO that shows you how to write a Press Release and where to put it, that could help you. There are writers and services that do both of those things.

      Yahoo shows close to 9K backlinks to your site, that's a good number.

      You've got News, now you need to get On the News or In the News. Also, Video, (YouTube is one of the most searched sites on the net) it's an RPG game, get some Vids and get them on the Vid sites, link back with you site url. Promote the heck out of your site. Get some buzz going, viral stuff, viral usually means, Funny or Controversial or Really Wild. Promotion will push you up, because it's current.

      Good luck,
      Tony
      Signature

      No sig today.

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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Well, the really baffeling thing is that it looks like you already have some nice quality backlinks and the other page does not appear to have any.

    Of course, there could be links that I'm not seeing (I am using linkdiagnosis).

    I was kind of thinking that it might be because they are actually on wetpaint - it's not that they have a link from it but this site is on that domain so I was wondering if that could be what caused them to get ahead of you?

    Although you would think that since you have the exact match domain that would trump it.....

    This illustrates the huge difference in traffic between #1 and #4 then.

    Did the SEOofIndia people give you any kind of guarantee?
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  • Profile picture of the author usearchme2
    Your focusing on the wrong thing, backlinks backlinks backlinks !

    Its not your backlinks that are the problem !

    Its your site quality you can get all the backlinks u want, if your site quality isnt there your going no where !!

    Woc
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Yeah he did give me a guarantee.

    However...if my site just plain sucks, what's a #1 spot going to do anyway for me?

    I'm trying to think where we suck now that we didn't suck before. We have the same content as before. Same posts, members, and I update the table with a new announcement every couple days.

    I posted up on SMF's help forum asking for some help sorting out the code errors but my programmers have sort of walked out on me. I can't afford to hire another one with the SEO issues being as bad as they are. I have to keep waiting on posts from SMF's help and that just takes days if it ever gets done at all.

    As for it being ugly, I did my best, but I'm not a professional designer.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I'm trying to think where we suck now that we didn't suck before. We have the same content as before. Same posts, members, and I update the table with a new announcement every couple days.
    Are you using the same software to run the site that you did before?

    When your old site was deleted, was it down for a long time?
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  • Profile picture of the author FiverrGuru
    Do a competition analysis - sort by page and domain PR and see where you can get links from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    I feel like I'm going to die, or go crazy.

    Everybody is telling me different things! Someone told me that Twitter and Youtube and Facebook are all useless. After I told them what I have been doing up to now {see top post I listed all I am doing, I have my friends helping too on the site with youtube video contest we got like 20 out so far and making more and we announced the facebook group and deviant art groups, trying to get everyone there to join those}.

    A Press Release? lol that wound be funny, are you serious? i mean, it is an RPG and the news is stuff like one character is planning on killing another character, etc. you know that stuff, the news sites would actually print that? haha. XD

    Ok but what is controversial about it? we are rated PG remember, all ages, mostly teens on the site.

    cashcow - Proboards didn't like it when we moved our site from their server to our new one and so they up and deleted the old one that had the #1 spot.

    It has been gone for 3 weeks now.

    We are using SMF now.

    now someone told me my backlinks are dragging me down well i asked, if putting them in iframe would help, nobody said whether it would, would it?
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  • Profile picture of the author RokNStoK
    Hi Groovystar,

    Check out my website One Way Links | Link Exchange Rate Based On PR | Free Membership! to find quality, relevant one way links for your site! Before everybody jumps in and says that link exchanges are bad... please consider the following.

    Monopolinks:
    A. is patent pending... so you've NEVER seen a link exchange like this before.
    B. enforces quality, relevant link partners both systematically and culturally.
    C. is a one-way link exchange... not reciprocal. We don't do 3-4 ways either.
    D. credits members for posting and debits them for getting posted based on a Page Rank Exchange Rate.
    E. appears totally natural because of the 'non-linear' linking strategy.

    I'll let you learn about the automated distribution and link publishing system at the monopolinks site.

    I am interested in what the more experienced warriors think about the new linking paradigm at monopolinks! My goal is to create the perfect environment for finding relevant partners. My long term business plan includes even more high quality webmaster services all provided without charge.

    Best of Luck!
    Signature
    Ken
    www.monopolinks.com
    Free One-Way Link Exchange
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I was just wondering if the fact that your site was down for a while made you slip from #1 and that it is only temporary. Perhaps you are banging your head against the wall for nothing... Of course, there's no way to tell for sure - SEO is so frustrating!
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    now someone told me my backlinks are dragging me down well i asked, if putting them in iframe would help, nobody said whether it would, would it?
    Did you have the same backlinks when you were #1?
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Thanks...but I already said, I'm bursting at the seams with over 50 links on my site that are reciprocal. If one of those drops us or gets dropped for whatever reason I'll see if I can put yours in. But thanks for letting me know.

    Okay...back to the discussion about my site full of fail XD I DO feel I am getting somewhere with your help guys so I want to continue on and see what I can do to turn this disaster around.
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    The site was not "down for a while" maybe I wasn't clear. We were a Proboards subdomain that wanted our own freedom of our own site so we moved. The old site was intended to remain up to refer people to the new site, but Proboards deleted it.

    ...Yes, we did actually we had even more of those link exchanges than we do now.

    And I guess there's no weight to the claim that domains are better than subdomains, therefore?
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Oh, I see. I thought you meant the site was down like as in nothing there for a while.

    Still a bit confused though because I don't really know what a proboards subdomain is. But in your sig it looks like you have your own top level domain, right? Did that top level domain rank at #1 or was it some other domain. Sorry if I am sounding dense.

    If you already had those link exchanges when you were #1 it seems unlikely that they would be harming you now - IMHO.
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  • Profile picture of the author nettech
    You didnt mention.any article marketing which is an absolute MUST! Also use social bookmarking sites to give your site some power!

    Zaheer
    Signature

    Thanks
    Zaheer

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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    I tried hubpages and they're nofollow. It was rather discouraging to write a huge giant article that then turned out to be pretty much useless. And there's the subject material. I could write about roleplaying Warriors, etc. something pertinent to the game or republish the guides and articles we already have on our site, but if it's nofollow, isn't it useless for solving our problem?

    Cashcow--A subdomain on proboards is any Proboards forum. We didn't have this domain when we were there. We had warriorcatsarpg.proboards.com
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Cashcow--A subdomain on proboards is any Proboards forum. We didn't have this domain when we were there. We had warriorcatsarpg.proboards.com
    Oh. Then you must have just redirected your domain to the warriorcatsarpg.proboards.com site, right? So, really the only difference is your on-page stuff.

    Hubpage links inside your text area appear to be dofollow. Looks like comments are nofollow. (I just discovered you need to have a hubscore over 75 to your links to be dofollow).
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    I saw that they're all nofollow according to my Firefox plugin. How do you get a score over 75?

    Do I get the score first then have to resubmit my entire article?

    And is any of this so far, that I am doing, quality links?

    Edit: Been submitting to several directories today. That seems white hat to me!
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    I think you dismissed the press release idea a little prematurely. What Palo said was good advice. You have a decent site ranking in the top 5 in the GAMING RPG niche. You could put out all sorts of press releases that will help you attract new visitors and create backlinks. Honestly, if you don't want to do the written work, outsource it. Articles and press releases ROCK!

    PM me - I'll write you one for free. I'll interview you as site owner and we'll put out an interesting PR to the gaming fraternity.
    Signature
    I don't build in order to have clients. I have clients in order to build. - Ayn Rand
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Oh no, i'd be more than willing to do the written work myself. I've got the time. I just didn't get how it would really go with the news releases...I'm entirely unfamiliar with it. It seemed strange to me and I figured there was something I wasn't getting. I apologise if that was unclear.

    That's it--I have time and lots of it in terms of day by day. What I don't have is a clear idea of where to go or what to do so that's why I opened this thread. Thank you for any offer to help, if you also have a gaming site maybe we could work together with that!
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Hi Groovystar,

      Let me see if I got this right, you moved your forum to a new domain, fully intending to place 301 Redirects in place. But the owner of the old domain, that hosted the sub-domain you used, deleted your account there. This means all of your old backlinks now point to non-existent URLs.

      You have effectively lost all of your old backlinks and now you are ranked much lower than you were before you changed domains.

      All you can do at this point is try to contact as many of those old link sources you can find and ask them to update the URLs to your new domain. You are essentially starting over from scratch. What you need now is some heavy duty promotional activity.

      Try articles, press releases, blogging, guest blogging, advertising and every promotional activity that you can think of to get the traffic flowing again.
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      • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
        Originally Posted by dburk View Post

        Hi Groovystar,

        Let me see if I got this right, you moved your forum to a new domain, fully intending to place 301 Redirects in place. But the owner of the old domain, that hosted the sub-domain you used, deleted your account there. This means all of your old backlinks now point to non-existent URLs.

        You have effectively lost all of your old backlinks and now you are ranked much lower than you were before you changed domains.

        All you can do at this point is try to contact as many of those old link sources you can find and ask them to update the URLs to your new domain. You are essentially starting over from scratch. What you need now is some heavy duty promotional activity.

        Try articles, press releases, blogging, guest blogging, advertising and every promotional activity that you can think of to get the traffic flowing again.
        Yes that is right. I was intending to do a 301 and then the entire thing was removed. I had already sent out notices to all my reciprocals and the members of our directory and at this point I have all of them except for I think one {waiting on it a little longer} now pointing to our new locale. I have been building links in the usual ways {everything you listed except for press releases because I don't know anything about how to do those and don't see where an RPG would be able to do that}for a few hours every single day and backlink watch has picked up about 700+ links on my last check. It has been one month since the new site and domain have opened.

        I've consulted with my programmer who helped me first open the forum and may be paying him to fix all the errors, optimise my server and even help with SEO. It'd be worth the cash. There is literally nothing {outside of anything evil} that I wouldn't do to save this place.

        Today was also a directory-submitting day and I submitted my site to several of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Yes that is right. I was intending to do a 301 and then the entire thing was removed. I had already sent out notices to all my reciprocals and the members of our directory and at this point I have all of them except for I think one {waiting on it a little longer} now pointing to our new locale. I have been building links in the usual ways {everything you listed except for press releases because I don't know anything about how to do those and don't see where an RPG would be able to do that}for a few hours every single day and backlink watch has picked up about 700+ links on my last check. It has been one month since the new site and domain have opened.
    Seems like it would just be a matter of time then until Google recognizes all the backlinks and does whatever it does to float you to the top.

    I saw that they're all nofollow according to my Firefox plugin. How do you get a score over 75?

    Do I get the score first then have to resubmit my entire article?
    They automatically get made to dofollow when you get the score of 75. Here's some info on hubscore:

    How Hubscore Works

    Not sure though if it would be worth your while to spend time on that as it doesn't seem to be a factor here since you never had a dofollow from them in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Groovystar
    Thanks for the link. It has the potential to go dofollow definitely, but I'm not going to break my back over it. Like you said, I never had a link from there before.

    My best links have all been redirected. We just have a lot of others mostly low quality that accumulated over time that didn't get a redirect. But I'm creating many new ones, including my posts here. as for waiting to "float" it seems strange that it would suddenly halt like that and go nowhere despite all that I'm doing.

    If I got one really really good high PR link, would that instigate a sudden jump?
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