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Wordpress 3.0 SEO vs Headway vs Thesis etc

by pogul
18 replies
  • SEO
    • |
With Wordpress 3.0 out - and all of it's improvements - I'm wondering if it now has even better SEO "out of the box".

For example, with the new default Twenty Ten theme, are there any benefits to using Thesis, Headway, or Socrates etc themes?

Along those same lines, is the All-In-One SEO plug-in still needed?

I did some quick googling, but didn't find much on it. Any Warrior opinions on the subject?
#headway #seo #thesis #wordpress
  • Profile picture of the author pogul
    Anyone have any idea on this?
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    • Profile picture of the author pogul
      Still trying to figure out if I need to pick up something like Headway, Thesis etc now that WP 3.0 is out - and has the new Twenty Ten theme...

      Does anyone know if 3.0 and the new theme is better SEO optimized - or is there still some value in using Thesis, Headway, etc?

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkSherris
    Not sure really, I think if you post this in the SEO section you might get a better response :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Exfilius
      Twenty Ten is an excellent free theme. It has clean/commented code and has the new 3.0 features included. If you can edit that theme to your preference there is no need to spend money on an overpriced theme.
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      • Profile picture of the author DannyUK
        Originally Posted by Exfilius View Post

        Twenty Ten is an excellent free theme. It has clean/commented code and has the new 3.0 features included. If you can edit that theme to your preference there is no need to spend money on an overpriced theme.
        Agree with this. A child theme based on TwentyTen will take you a long way if you have a fairly decent idea of what you are doing. I'm no expert by any means but I latched onto TwentyTen pretty quickly, built my own theme and now I've ditched the frameworks. I'm not criticising the paid themes, some of them are very good, but WP3.0 does enough for me now.

        TwentyTen seems very clean to me. I made a few tweaks on where the H1 tag gets placed and the rest of it looked OK out of the box. You'll still want to customise your titles and page descriptions however, but that goes for the frameworks too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
    Originally Posted by pogul View Post

    With Wordpress 3.0 out - and all of it's improvements - I'm wondering if it now has even better SEO "out of the box".

    For example, with the new default Twenty Ten theme, are there any benefits to using Thesis, Headway, or Socrates etc themes?

    Along those same lines, is the All-In-One SEO plug-in still needed?

    I did some quick googling, but didn't find much on it. Any Warrior opinions on the subject?
    Not sure what you're asking exactly.

    Twenty Ten is a stand alone theme
    Thesis is a DIY fully customizable theme some coding needed
    Headway is a DIY fully customizable theme no coding needed
    Socrates is a semi customizable theme geared towards beginners

    That being said, the themes have nothing to do with the plugins in terns of SEO. You can put the exact same plugins on any WP Theme.


    Giles, the Crew Chief
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    • Profile picture of the author Abledragon
      Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

      Not sure what you're asking exactly.

      That being said, the themes have nothing to do with the plugins in terns of SEO. You can put the exact same plugins on any WP Theme.


      Giles, the Crew Chief
      Not quite true - Thesis and (I believe) Headway both offer SEO features. With Thesis there's no need to use any SEO plugins at all - I've dropped the All-in-one-SEO plugin and the Robots META plugin as a result of the SEO functionality in Thesis.

      To answer the original question - you still need to use the All-in-one-SEO or another method to boost your site's SEO, because you're still better off adding unique Title and Description tags (and Keywords) to each of your posts and pages, and restricting the pages and archives that should be indexed.

      Cheers,

      Martin.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        pogul, one of the reasons you aren't finding a lot of info on the subject is because WP 3.0 and the new default Twenty Ten theme haven't been out long enough for a lot of answers.

        If you check the plugin section on the WP site, most of the plugins still say "not enough info" for 3.0 compatibility.
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        • Profile picture of the author Crew Chief
          Originally Posted by Abledragon View Post

          Not quite true - Thesis and (I believe) Headway both offer SEO features. With Thesis there's no need to use any SEO plugins at all - I've dropped the All-in-one-SEO plugin and the Robots META plugin as a result of the SEO functionality in Thesis.

          To answer the original question - you still need to use the All-in-one-SEO or another method to boost your site's SEO, because you're still better off adding unique Title and Description tags (and Keywords) to each of your posts and pages, and restricting the pages and archives that should be indexed. Cheers, Martin.
          Actually, Martin, the point I was making was in response to the OPs statement...

          Originally Posted by pogul View Post

          With Wordpress 3.0 out - and all of it's improvements - I'm wondering if it now has even better SEO "out of the box"
          And my point being was and is... no theme offers anything spectacularly different SEO wise that gives it any advantage over any other WP theme.

          If a theme offers or adversities a particular SEO feature(s) or function(s), those exact same features and functions can be captured with one or more of the many WP plugins.

          That's all I was saying; hope that clarifies things.

          Giles, the Crew Chief
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    • Profile picture of the author pogul
      Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post

      That being said, the themes have nothing to do with the plugins in terns of SEO. You can put the exact same plugins on any WP Theme.
      Right - I get that you *can* add different SEO plugins (particularly thinking of AIOSEO), but I thought one of the big selling points of Thesis, Headway, Socrates etc was that you didn't *need* the various SEO plugins because they implemented all of those SEO tricks and had been optimized for SEO - above and beyond the typical freebie WP theme (which I believe is what Abledragon was pointing out).

      What I was wondering is whether the new Twenty Ten theme (and WP 3.0 itself) had now implemented a lot of the SEO features that you would get from AIOSEO plugin and/or Thesis, Headway etc.

      Looks like it will be a little while longer before folks dig into 3.0 enough to find out for sure. Thanks for all of the feedback tho!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bence Ur
    Yeah, I know that the creators of premium (=very expensive) themes keep saying that their theme has superior SEO... But then they don't explain exactly why is it superior?

    They use vague language to fool newbies... Don't listen to them. Twenty Ten *has* superior SEO, too. It has nice, clean, not bloated, HTML5 compatible code.

    Use the WordPress › 2010 Weaver Free WordPress Themes child theme. It is very flexible, you can customize the layout and the look and feel of Twenty Ten.
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  • Profile picture of the author kincontrol
    I bought thesis on the claims that it was easily modifiable for non-coders. I have some experiencing mucking with code with a theme I purchased from Ithemes and so I'm capable, but it's a b!tch and I was looking for a solution that I didn't have to muck around with a lot. Thesis was not that solution. Then based on some of the postings in this thread I went and purchased Headway and also found it very wanting in many aspects.

    Throughout the whole process of research and looking at Hybrid, Thematic, Frugal, Headway, Thesis, Genesis and Builder, I settled on a theme from woothemes that already looked similar to what I had in mind and templatic for a different site. Minimal plugin install (woo comes with most you need) and changing a few widgets and I was done in less than 2 hours.

    I also think that the SEO claims that many make are greatly exaggerated, but I'd love to hear otherwise with specifics.

    I read a review on four of the more popular ones by TechnoSailor Aaron Brazell

    I couldn't paste the link here because apparently I don't have enough postings. So do a google search for Technosailor + Aaron Brazell + the query below and you'll find it: (Very informative)

    battle-of-the-titans-premium-theme-framework-smackdown/

    Genesis won that one but so many of the sites being made by Genesis look the same and you need a serious coder or designer to make it look really customized to your needs and they are all charging over $1000.00 - no thanks...not necessary...there are thousands out there that probably already have the look you're after, you just need to do a bit of work googling WP themes and filtering through a few sites.

    For the record I like Studiopress but Woothemes are my favorite followed by templatic. Ithemes have some cool designs too.

    Is it just me or is this 'framework' WP fad a bit too overboard at the moment.

    Kin
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  • Profile picture of the author Bence Ur
    These "premium" Wordpress themes are not premiums, they are just pay-for-use themes: Screw the premium theme market.

    There are a lot of free themes, which are better than the "premium" themes. It is just a marketing BS.

    The SEO claims of "premium" themes are really greatly exaggerated. The default Wordpress theme is already SEO optimized, even without a SEO plugin. But your content, your LSI keywords are much more important than the underlying HTML code. And the off-page SEO is way more important than on-page SEO.

    My experience is similar. I bought a "premium" WP theme, because it is customizable. But it has hundreds of options, and the learning curve is steep! It is much more easier to choose a theme which is already sufficient for you. And if you have a popular blog, then you need unique design anyway.

    So these theme options is greatly exaggerated, too. You don't need theme options in the admin menu, if the theme has enough widget areas, built-in shortcodes and page and post templates, and it uses the built-in Wordpress theme options, like custom background/header, and the menu editor.
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    Premium themes are just that, a huge premium paid for little benefit. The reason they are recommened is simple. People make money recommending them.

    The reason thesis is so popular and has so much great press is because its sold by the people who own copyblogger.com so it has some authority, and its affiliates include people such as Michael Gray.

    These premium themes are difficult to alter, and therefore lock you in. A great money maker, but not for the theme purchaser.

    There are tons of free and flexible themes out there, and with a few tweaks you can fully optimise them for on-page SEO, and things like google news pick-up potential.

    The on-page SEO factors you can influence account for around 15% of the total factors google takes into account for ranking. So no matter how good thesis etc are, you are only hitting 15% of what you need to hit, and that's if your content is 100%, which thesis cannot do for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author LaunchGal
      Just wanted to jump in here and add my experience with a number of themes.

      I am pretty fluent in html but not css or php. I didn't find headway or thesis very easy to customize. I may be one of the few who feel that way...

      I have also bought a premium theme from Elegant WP themes that was broken....so paid doesn't necessarily mean its a good, stable theme or easily customizable.

      I am actually looking for someone to take a design I have and build it out in headway...

      Jane
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