PPC - Is Affiliate Marketing Dead On Google? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

14 years ago

Well, they've never liked Bridge Pages. You can fake it if just a bot checks, but they never hold up under manual review.
Try this. Get a new domain and put the redisigned site on it. Create a "new" ad and use the new domain.
The old site has been slapped and will take forever to recover.

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Gene.Gerwin 14 years ago

I checked and it looks like all the other affiliates that had bridging pages have dissapeared from this niche as well. In their place are catalog sites with shopping carts.

So, unless you try to game Google, landing-page affiliate marketing using AdWords is a thing of the past.

What's next, the death of affiliate marketing using SEO (articles & back-linking)?
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- indexphp 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin
  
  So, unless you try to game Google, landing-page affiliate marketing using AdWords is a thing of the past.
  
  Not at all
  
  You just have to be a little bit smarter now, thats it.
  
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  Gene.Gerwin 14 years ago
  
  Interesting. With the high-cost of premium (buyer) keywords, being more creative and "smarter" can mean significant drops in conversion rates (enough to make projects unprofitable). I've split-tested long-form, short-form, and graphic versions of landing pages for these types of keywords. The graphic versions always won. If your links are buried, hidden, or otherwise disguised they will get clicked less.
  
  I suppose whether the campaign can still turn a profit is largely niche and product dependent. Since there some that have figured out how to do this, there must be disguised bridge pages out there. ...just have to go find them to see how it's done...
  
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  Rysk 14 years ago
  
  Direct linking or authority site is the only way forward on adwords now.
  
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bgray

14 years ago

It's not dead but you have to be much more creative.
It's taken several accounts for me to get a setup that passes.

More content + creative forms / LPs

The mass banning in November was a big wake call that got me to try more sources but its hard to walk away from the Adwords volume.

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webdesk

14 years ago

I guess you lost me on this Gene. You had an adwords campaign... did it advertise your site or an affiliate product?

Then, regardless, the ad took the user to your site, right? And what Google is saying is that you need the "buy" button for the affiliate product on your site, that an affiliate page can NOT be opened?

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by webdesk

I guess you lost me on this Gene. You had an adwords campaign... did it advertise your site or an affiliate product?

Then, regardless, the ad took the user to your site, right? And what Google is saying is that you need the "buy" button for the affiliate product on your site, that an affiliate page can NOT be opened?

Exactly.

It's against Google AdWords policy to allow affiliate marketers to put up landing pages with the primary purpose of getting the visitor to click through to another website to complete the purchase.

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webdesk 14 years ago

scritch-scratch-scritch-scratch (finger action on my head)

Strange. So Google should really not be approving campaigns for affiliates...

Not using adwords would be no big loss in my experience:
21,000 impressions, 60 clicks, no takers.
177,000 impressions, 856 clicks, nothing gained
156,700 impressions, 374 clicks, ditto...

(yeah, I know, it doesn't say much for my ad copy!)

I ended the campaigns after they used up 60% of my beginning credit because I didn't want to get billed for another month.
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tryinhere

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

Exactly.

It's against Google AdWords policy to allow affiliate marketers to put up landing pages with the primary purpose of getting the visitor to click through to another website to complete the purchase.

there is noting new in these rules other than it is being enforced a little more, people just need to build a land site not a land page and they need to worry about content not sales and build out a site.

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tryinhere

there is noting new in these rules other than it is being enforced a little more, people just need to build a land site not a land page and they need to worry about content not sales and build out a site.

Right. But you will have to drop down to the bottom of the sales cycle, cross your fingers, and hope that your site visitors come back to your site a week or two later to click on your affiliate links.

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Whothar

14 years ago

What if the page is forwarded and masked with your affiliate link? So, it's the actual product's website, except with your own domain name, therefore no "bridge". Would google see it's a masked affiliate link and take you down?

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Whothar

What if the page is forwarded and masked with your affiliate link? So, it's the actual product's website, except with your own domain name, therefore no "bridge". Would google see it's a masked affiliate link and take you down?

You would be gaming Google and sooner or later found out.. perhaps be banned from AdWords permanently (not just the account, but YOU).

Besides, I think they would detect the forwarding right away- unless you use a non-forwarded page until you're approved.

But, in my correspondence with the Google rep about my account, he indicated they are now ramping up to monthly manual reviews of ALL Google AdWords accounts; so, it may not be worth trying.

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MrDay

14 years ago

I never keep the same thing running to long on adwords. I switch things up frequently cause I know Google doesn't like affiliates and to many competitors trying to spy on your campaigns.

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Lucid

14 years ago

Google has no problems with affiliates. You just have to play by their rules:

Not allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com

Allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com/order.html

Allowed:
ad >>> affiliatesite.com

Not allowed:
ad showing display URL as mysite.com >>> mysite.com auto-directing to >>> affiliatesite.com

Allowed:
ad showing display URL as affiliatesite.com >>> mysite.com auto-directing to >>> affiliatesite.com

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Google has no problems with affiliates. You just have to play by their rules:

Not allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com

Allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com/order.html

Allowed:
ad >>> affiliatesite.com

Not allowed:
ad showing display URL as mysite.com >>> mysite.com auto-directing to >>> affiliatesite.com

Allowed:
ad showing display URL as affiliatesite.com >>> mysite.com auto-directing to >>> affiliatesite.com

I'm not so sure about this one:

Allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com/order.html

Here, again, is the exact message from Google:

"Please understand that in order to be compliant per our landing page guidelines, you need to promote your product on your website and the user need not go to another website to buy the product."

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

I'm not so sure about this one:

Allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com/order.html

Here, again, is the exact message from Google:

"Please understand that in order to be compliant per our landing page guidelines, you need to promote your product on your website and the user need not go to another website to buy the product."

I don't think:

"Allowed:
ad showing display URL as affiliatesite.com >>> mysite.com auto-directing to >>> affiliatesite.com"

...is allowed...

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Gene.Gerwin 14 years ago

Update: Here's the latest word from Google:

"Thank you for your email. I have checked with our specialist team
regarding your new URL, and would like to inform you that it is still
bridging. This means that you need to ensure that users do not go to other sites from your website. Below, I have explained in detail.

Your landing page is the active webpage where customers 'land' when they click your ad. The quality of that landing page is one of several factors that determine your keywords' Quality Scores. It's influenced by the usefulness and relevance of information provided on the page, ease of navigation, load time, how many links are on the page, and more."

I had transitioned my website from a simple bridging page to a review site. The site has 3 product reviews (from two vendors) with product images, videos, and at least 500 words of text per article. The articles had just two text links to the vendor site (one in the middle and one at the end).
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tryinhere 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Google has no problems with affiliates. You just have to play by their rules:

Not allowed:
ad >>> mysite.com with links to >>> affiliatesite.com

? that one would not apply, if it did, people would not be able to place any ad blocks on a land page / or is that in g rules for adwords ?
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dsprank

14 years ago

Would google allow a landing page that does not have an affiliate link, but instead had an opt in form? I was considering just doing that and emailing the list with offers, but i am not sure that would work now.

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Lucid

14 years ago

I asked the question a few months ago to a Google employee what needs to be done in order to comply. I already knew that linking from your own sales page to the merchant's sales page does not work. Asking specifically about sending to the order page (many here and elsewhere doubted my response), she said that's exactly what you have to do. The worst thing is for the visitor to be shown another sales page. By clicking on your link, they are saying they are sold and ready to make the purchase (or at least one step closer). Therefore, link to the order page.

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affiliatecoachlandon

14 years ago

I guess the AM is dead, at least the old modal. The new model is to have a blog, sells nothing on the website. LOL

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Gene.Gerwin 14 years ago

Originally Posted by affiliatecoachlandon

I guess the AM is dead, at least the old modal. The new model is to have a blog, sells nothing on the website. LOL

Affiliate Landing Pages Are Dead! Long Live Affiliate Landing Pages!
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yukinari84

14 years ago

I always find it funny when people say things are "dead". Things rarely die out, but they do change.

Internet marketing is always going to change, and the only ones that survive and continue to grow their businesses are the ones that accept this and know how to change with it.

Also, Google Adwords has had their Bridge Page Policy for awhile now, so them coming down on those that use them is something to be expected.

It's a good idea to take a close look at the TOS for anything before investing your time and money into it.

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by yukinari84

I always find it funny when people say things are "dead". Things rarely die out, but they do change.

Internet marketing is always going to change, and the only ones that survive and continue to grow their businesses are the ones that accept this and know how to change with it.

Also, Google Adwords has had their Bridge Page Policy for awhile now, so them coming down on those that use them is something to be expected.

It's a good idea to take a close look at the TOS for anything before investing your time and money into it.

No doubt. In my case, my campaign had been running for 2 years unchanged... so, I guess it was due for a slapping.

It looks like some others in this forum are also now waking up to see their long-running campaigns suddenly stomped on.

Ignorance is bliss- until reality kicks you in the ass.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by yukinari84

I always find it funny when people say things are "dead". Things rarely die out, but they do change.

Internet marketing is always going to change, and the only ones that survive and continue to grow their businesses are the ones that accept this and know how to change with it.

Also, Google Adwords has had their Bridge Page Policy for awhile now, so them coming down on those that use them is something to be expected.

It's a good idea to take a close look at the TOS for anything before investing your time and money into it.

Finally, a grown up comment in this thread.

I find if you actually bother reading their TOS and guidelines, it's very easy to work with Google.

If you can't think how to make money using Adwords and monetizing with affiliate offers, then either you're not actually sitting down and thinking things through creatively enough, or you really aren't cut out for online marketing.

I'm not assuming either, and I don't mean any offence as I'm sure you're a smart guy, but c'mon man... just think a little harder about it.

Stop thinking with the blinkers on.

It's not all about bridge pages. Affiliate marketing via PPC isn't dead just because you can't use your preferred "lazy man" method of making money online... it just means you have to add value to the market place.

You need to think about how real businesses work. There are lots of companies selling the exact same thing, but they don't get Google slapped. Why is that? I'll give you a clue... they have a unique selling proposition and in the context of their websites, they offer original content.

If you read Google's TOS and guidelines, you'll see that's one of their main policies on quality score... if you're selling the same product as other people, then you must have original content that visitors cannot find elsewhere.

That's not the only issue you're facing here, but it's one of them. The other issue is you're making it hard for the visitor to take action.

Put enough hurdles in front of the best athlete, and he's gonna trip eventually.

Think harder...

... who says you have to sell anything right there and then?

Ever heard of building a list?

Do you know that the average lead to customer cycle is three months?

That's fact, based on a recent study of over 1000 B2B marketers online.

What does that tell you? It tells you that collecting and nuturing leads is the way real businesses make money... not by sticking their hand in front of the cash register and making people take an extra step.

Google is actually doing you a favour, by forcing you to market products in a way that is intuitive and effective... affiliate or not.

All you gotta do is think outside the box a little, that's all.

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

"What does that tell you? It tells you that collecting and nuturing leads is the way real businesses make money... not by sticking their hand in front of the cash register and making people take an extra step."

I beg to differ. Putting your hand in front of the cash register is a time-honored and proven way to make a living.

80% of your sales are going to come from the 20% that make it to the final step. Once they get there, the amount of nudging and effort to push them over the edge is minimal. If your landing page presents the product, testimonials, and benefits in the right way, perhaps even a little better than the vendors themselves do on their sales page, then you have provided that little extra nudge. You then benefit from all the "education" they received from other online sources.

Provided you aren't hurting anyone, there is nothing wrong, lazy, or stupid about trying to make the most money with the least effort. If you feel that way, then you need cultural de-conditioning.

The question is finding opportunities or scenarios where that is possible.

For a while, Google AdWords was one such mechanism.

I always had an offer of a free E-Book or other reward on my landing pages to build my opt-in list. That's a given. You can do that and still have a landing page that, with minimum interference in their forward momentum + a little extra nudge, pushes them over the edge to buy.

So, if the game has changed with AdWords, then it's just time to move on to another traffic source where there are less restrictions- and/or to continue using Google AdWords in way that complies with their rules but still earns you a profit that is commensurate with the amount of effort needed to generate it.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

Provided you aren't hurting anyone, there is nothing wrong, lazy, or stupid about trying to make the most money with the least effort. If you feel that way, then you need cultural de-conditioning.

The question is finding opportunities or scenarios where that is possible.

I think you misinterpreted that particular point. What I meant was, trying to siphon of lazy affiliate sales (aka - using a bridge page) is not going to cut it in 2010 and beyond.

Sure, it can help increase sales... I know that for a fact. But it's not adding value and ultimately, it's getting in the way of the buying process.

I know Google can be a pain, I've felt their wrath before too. But ultimately, their guidelines are based on consumer behaviour and feedback, which means the more you stick to them, the more your potential customer will find your ad relevant and your website useful.

You don't need a single bridge page to presell someone. You can easily comply with Google's rules and presell all day long.

The bottom line is, if you add real value (and not just an extended sales pitch), then you will let the preselling take care of itself as a natural reaction.

I know it sucks, because there's more work involved, but ultimately the point I was making is that if you add value and originality, your marketing is kinda taken care of by default, and the sales will come naturally...

...and Google let you play in their sandpit.

So, if the game has changed with AdWords, then it's just time to move on to another traffic source where there are less restrictions- and/or to continue using Google AdWords in way that complies with their rules but still earns you a profit that is commensurate with the amount of effort needed to generate it.

I think you've answered your own question from your original post.

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Profit123

14 years ago

Hello there-no, it isn't dead. Play by the rules, don't try to bend them; use your creativity otherwise (content, etc.)

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Hmm, it sounds ambiguous on boths sides to be honest.

Google seem to have different guidelines for different people - but I think it comes down to who is reviewing your site over at Google HQ.

When they say " your page must not have links to other sites " that doesn't seem right at all. As long as the sites you're linking to are relevant and legal, then it doesn't make any difference.

HOWEVER...

I think what they mean is - you musn't be linking to pages that replicate or duplicate what you're already offering. In other words, linking to affiliated sites with similar content/purpose etc.

If that IS the case, then yes, they're basically saying they don't like the way you're using their service to conduct business.

AKA - They're sick and tired of fake review sites that merely serve as "disguised" bridge pages to make affiliate sales.

They'll never tell you that, but sometimes you have to read between the lines. They don't want their advertisers to be pushed out by all the competition who are slapping up very similar looking, similar worded, thinly disguised affiliate sites.

Yes, even review sites get lumped into that category... usually because the reviews are thin, clearly fake, and don't actually provide useful content that can be trusted.

Sure, if it were 2005, you'd be killing it with that method right now... sadly, it's not.

Once again, is this the "end of affiliate marketing on PPC"? No.
Is this end of lazy money scraping methods on PPC? Yes.

I'm not saying YOU are lazy, but if you want to generate real business online these days, you need to actually operate like one in the eyes of Google and you visitors.

You can still do affiliate marketing via PPC, but it's the way you approach it that makes the difference, especially if you want Google's blessing.

As I said before, all you have to do is think outside the box a little bit.

P.S - If you're dead set on review pages, try a different ad network. There's thousands of them out there, and many are a lot cheaper. Sure, it will take a few weeks to set up all campaigns on dozens of new networks, but the cumulative effect should be worth it.

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Lucid

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

I think what they mean is - you musn't be linking to pages that replicate or duplicate what you're already offering. In other words, linking to affiliated sites with similar content/purpose etc.

If that IS the case, then yes, they're basically saying they don't like the way you're using their service to conduct business.

I agree that Google can seem very cryptic. But that is exactly what they mean.

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tryinhere 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

I agree that Google can seem very cryptic. But that is exactly what they mean.

i will argue / softly (who really cares) that is not fact, because if a page had adsense on it in that links / ads position it would be deemed ok, and yes because those ads are targeted to exactly wahts on that page, i find it very hard to say you can have your cake but can not eat it.

so rather than a general it really can not be a bridge page is what they are saying

This means that you need to ensure that users do not go to other sites from your website

that ? makes no sense at all to say that in the context as it was posted, are people now required to land on a page and stay there, and that rule woud say 100% that there can be no, advertising and or external links on any page adwords is sent to ?

? you would have to ask if the rep had a handle on what was posted ?

and would like to inform you that it is still
bridging. This means that you need to ensure that users do not go to other sites from your website

i should read more / the op only highlighted half the story , bolding this would have been great ? my error / coffee time
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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

As in most cases like this, there's usually ambiguity on both sides.

I do not believe for one second that Google officially states that "you cannot link to other pages from your landing page."

That's just being silly to assume that is what they meant. Obviously, if that is a direct quote, then the support staff member has used unfortunate wording to make their point.

I can't speak for Google, but I can only speculate that what they mean (in the right context) is that you can't bridge to affiliate pages with the particular methods the OP is using... for whatever reason they stipulate in their guidelines.

It's nitpicking, it's harsh, but I can understand 100% why they take that line.

But there's no way they actually mean that "someone can't link to other pages/sites." as a general rule.

There's nothing in the guidelines or terms of use that reinforce that, so it's purely taken out of context, or misunderstood, or simply not been explained properly by the Google representative.

(I wouldn't put it past any of those possibilities)

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Lucid

14 years ago

Nick, Pete and I have been stubbornly discussing this for what seems like a year. As you say, people take things out of context, misunderstand or explained to them wrong.

You're right. Google doesn't state, officially or otherwise that "you cannot link to other pages from your landing page".

What they are saying is that they don't want your landing page to be one where you promote/sell a product only to have links going to another page doing the exact same thing, selling that product. This is bad user experience.

Does this mean Google hates affiliates? No. It means you have to do things a certain way.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Nick, Pete and I have been stubbornly discussing this for what seems like a year. As you say, people take things out of context, misunderstand or explained to them wrong.

You're right. Google doesn't state, officially or otherwise that "you cannot link to other pages from your landing page".

What they are saying is that they don't want your landing page to be one where you promote/sell a product only to have links going to another page doing the exact same thing, selling that product. This is bad user experience.

Does this mean Google hates affiliates? No. It means you have to do things a certain way.

Precisely.

I think the whole "Google hates affiliates" mantra is a clever sales and marketing twist for the upsrising traffic getting courses that have risen from the aftermath and ashes of the whole Google Slap era.

But to seriously believe that Google hates affiliates for no reason is more than childish. I mean, seriously, it sounds childish to type or say it out loud, let alone actually believe it.

Affiliates make Google millions of advertising revenue each month. They're pretty cool with affiliates on the whole.

But as with anything, there are good eggs and there are bad eggs.

Some affiliates "get it", some don't.

For others, it takes a couple of years to really grasp why these kinds of rules are set in place by big companies... and why these PPC networks would cut out millions of dollars of revenue for the sake of quality.

Big losses in their (Google's) ad revenue don't happen because "Google just hates affiliates." They are taking one step back, then two steps forward. Eventually, they will get a new breed of advertisers who are unique to each other, provide a rich user experience and deliver great value.

The naive affiliates will shout and protest that "Google is out to get all affiliates"...

...and the experienced affiliates will say "ah ok, that makes sense... this is obviously based on user experience which is what I need to excel on if I'm ever gonna make good money online"

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tryinhere

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Nick, Pete and I have been stubbornly discussing this for what seems like a year. As you say, people take things out of context, misunderstand or explained to them wrong.

You're right. Google doesn't state, officially or otherwise that "you cannot link to other pages from your landing page".

What they are saying is that they don't want your landing page to be one where you promote/sell a product only to have links going to another page doing the exact same thing, selling that product. This is bad user experience.

Does this mean Google hates affiliates? No. It means you have to do things a certain way.

Lucid, yes i see what your saying and agree, it is confusing more than not, some black n white would be good, because from what i see it is possible to have a land page with a affiliate link on it, just the way its done i suppose.

?

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Astron

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

I asked the question a few months ago to a Google employee what needs to be done in order to comply. I already knew that linking from your own sales page to the merchant's sales page does not work. Asking specifically about sending to the order page (many here and elsewhere doubted my response), she said that's exactly what you have to do. The worst thing is for the visitor to be shown another sales page. By clicking on your link, they are saying they are sold and ready to make the purchase (or at least one step closer). Therefore, link to the order page.

Ok, so what if I create my own salas page for the product? Like this I send my PPC traffic straight to a salespage and not to a review page. Most of the vendors would allow you to create your own sales page to promote their product. This way you can control your conversion on the salespage and improve it, split test.., what is a huge advantage especially in micro niches, where you can find really unprofessional salespages.

So what if everyone starts to promote products like this? You going to see 8 ads on the right side of Google search first page pointing to different salespages, but promoting the exact same product. Is it a good user experience? I don`t think so.
Google doesn`t want to see the same product on the first page of Google search in every ad position (I think they have an exact rule for that), what they wanna see is a healthy race between different products competing to each other.

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Lucid

14 years ago

Astron, I totally agree with you. However, a few points.

First, how many people really promote an affiliate product in the first place? Not that many.

Second, of those, how many use Adwords? Fewer still. Most affiliates don't seem to want to use PPC. Therefore, there wouldn't be 8 ads on the right side all promoting the same thing.

Third, it's no different than any other product. I have a client selling a specialized item. He doesn't make it. Let's say it's an HP laser printer. He's got a few competitors also using Adwords selling the same exact thing, all trying to grab your attention so you buy from them. Is that any different? I think not except that for affiliates, if I click on your affiliate link and those of others and landing on yet another sales page which is obviously the same for all, that's the bad user experience.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Astron, I totally agree with you. However, a few points.

First, how many people really promote an affiliate product in the first place? Not that many.

Second, of those, how many use Adwords? Fewer still. Most affiliates don't seem to want to use PPC. Therefore, there wouldn't be 8 ads on the right side all promoting the same thing.

Yep, there are definitely LESS than there were a year ago. But there are still many thousands of affiliates using PPC. Not sure what difference that makes to the OP's thread, but still.

I have a client selling a specialized item. He doesn't make it. Let's say it's an HP laser printer. He's got a few competitors also using Adwords selling the same exact thing, all trying to grab your attention so you buy from them. Is that any different?

Urm... ever heard of locality, deliver times, delivery costs, additional bonuses, incentives, rewards, better customer service, longer guarantees...?

Plus, most of these sites have their own content... unique content. Some have searchable databases or lead qualifiers to target the visitor and provide a useful tool at the same time.

These are just some of many examples.

These are also hints.

Thanks

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Astron

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lucid

Astron, I totally agree with you. However, a few points.

I`m not sure what do you mean exactly.

Originally Posted by Lucid

Second, of those, how many use Adwords? Fewer still. Most affiliates don't seem to want to use PPC.

Yes, but we`re talking about PPC here and Adwords and about Google`s new policy.

Of course you not gonna see every time 8 ads promoting the same product, not for every search term. But check this for example:

niche: Weight loss / 6 pack abs
product: The Truth About 6 Pack Abs

This product is one of the most popular e-book on CB. The creator already made a few million dollars in profit...

Everybody and his mother is promoting this product in this niche, becouse this is the most profitable and best info product.

So if you type keywords like this into Google:

6 pack abs
how to get flat abs
6 pack abs diet, workout, training etc..

you going to see ads promoting the same product, and if the affiliate marketers gonna use their own sales pages, than nothing gonna change about user experience.

Also, there are lot more products like this, in different niches with millions of search traffic monthly.

Thanks
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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Astron

I`m not sure what do you mean exactly.

Yes, but we`re talking about PPC here and Adwords and about Google`s new policy.

Of course you not gonna see every time 8 ads promoting the same product, not for every search term. But check this for example:

niche: Weight loss / 6 pack abs
product: The Truth About 6 Pack Abs

This product is one of the most popular e-book on CB. The creator already made a few million dollars in profit...

Everybody and his mother is promoting this product in this niche, becouse this is the most profitable and best info product.

So if you type keywords like this into Google:

6 pack abs
how to get flat abs
6 pack abs diet, workout, training etc..

you going to see ads promoting the same product, and if the affiliate marketers gonna use their own sales pages, than nothing gonna change about user experience.

Also, there are lot more products like this, in different niches with millions of search traffic monthly.

On a side note, I just typed in "6 pack abs" and there's only 2 Google ads.

I refreshed and reclicked the search button several times. Same thing.

Then I tried "how to get flat abs" and no ads at all.

I'm not even sure what that means... how can that be possible?

I was expecting at least a range of different advertisers... but either a couple or none? That's weird.

Thanks

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Slin

14 years ago

My experience (after some trial and error) is that if you set up a large review website google will allow it. (review multiple products on your site instead of just one.)

That way your not a bridge page, your an information site.

So far I've had no complaints, you may want to think about that.

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Astron

14 years ago

Hmm, it`s more then wierd

I would blindly think that there gonna be load of ads, couse I know this product very well. There used to be lots of ads on G search for this... Maybe most of the affiliate marketers gave up after getting 0 quality score.

I`m talking about this policy change:

Google Slap for Product Review Sites

Thanks
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Slin

14 years ago

I'm extremely skeptical about that blog post.

I have had no hate from google on my review site, in fact I've had a lot of love instead.

Please remember that the author of that post is selling something.

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Astron

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Slin

I'm extremely skeptical about that blog post.

I have had no hate from google on my review site, in fact I've had a lot of love instead.

Please remember that the author of that post is selling something.

I have some review websites as well, and Google loves them. But I don`t drive PPC traffic to them. Google has no problem with your review pages as long as you do not drive traffic with Adwords.

Yes Perry made one of the best book on Adwords, Amit Mehta and other super affiliates used to learn from his book... I have the 2010 version of the book, and of course it doesn`t says anything wrong about driving PPC traffic to review websites, on the contrary...

Thanks

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tryinhere

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Astron

Hmm, it`s more then wierd

I would blindly think that there gonna be load of ads, couse I know this product very well. There used to be lots of ads on G search for this... Maybe most of the affiliate marketers gave up after getting 0 quality score.

I`m talking about this policy change:

Google Slap for Product Review Sites

can you show me in google where they state a policy change ?

and can you then explain this memo which is from google in relation to review / land pages and how what google says is now wrong ?

To comply with our policies, please choose one of the options below:
We find that sites have a unique user experience when one of the following is true:

Option 2: Redesign your web page to offer multiple, competing offers from different companies for related services. For example, a web page promoting a specific book could have links to four online bookshops from which one could purchase the book.

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Astron

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tryinhere

can you show me in google where they state a policy change ?

and can you then explain this memo which is from google in relation to review / land pages and how what google says is now wrong ?

Where did you see these infos? I don`t see on Perry`s blog.

And of course you don`t need to belive everything word by word, what I say is, I would rather consider a well trusted expert`s inputs on Adwords than infos on free forums from newbys. Nothing is surfire here just like about SEO.

And it`s not a new policy, but Google appears to be more strict about this rule:

Landing Page and Site Quality Guidelines - AdWords Help

"This guideline is particularly applicable to resellers whose site is identical or highly similar to another reseller's or the parent company's site, and to affiliates that use the following types of pages:

* Bridge pages: Pages that act as an intermediary, whose sole purpose is to link or redirect traffic to the parent company

* Mirror pages: Pages that replicate the look and feel of a parent site; your site should not mirror (be similar or nearly identical in appearance to) your parent company's or any other advertiser's site"

And I just found the policy / solution about one of my question in a previous post:

Post: "Ok, so what if I create my own sales page for the product?...."

Why won't you show multiple ads leading to identical or similar landing pages? - AdWords Help

"try refining your site so that one of the following is true:

* Your site contains additional products which are not found on your parent company's or other advertisers' sites

* Your site serves a different purpose than your parent company's or other affiliates' or resellers' sites

* The prices on your site are significantly different than other advertisers' prices"

And the most funny is this:

My page is being called a bridge page? How can I fix this? - AdWords Help

Regarding the "Truth about six pack abs" product example in one of my prev. post. It`s funny that Nick Brighton said:

"On a side note, I just typed in "6 pack abs" and there's only 2 Google ads.

I refreshed and reclicked the search button several times. Same thing.

Then I tried "how to get flat abs" and no ads at all.

I'm not even sure what that means... how can that be possible?

I was expecting at least a range of different advertisers... but either a couple or none? That's weird. "

And I answered:

"Maybe most of the affiliate marketers gave up after getting 0 quality score."

So there are some serious changes about Adwords PPC affiliate marketing, maybe this is the end of the old review, product comparison, "tell a story, identify them..." etc. strategies. Google wants quality content and not garbage like this.

Thanks

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Astron

14 years ago

I think we need to start to master the list building through PPC and the email marketing

So you can sell the product to your list, you can downsell, upsell with your own products or with other affiliate products for more comission...while your competition only makes 1 sale you can make 2-3 and even more.

Perry Marshall made the point here:

"people need to move towards a deeper list building/relationship building strategy and/or a strong e-commerce model"

Thanks

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tryinhere

14 years ago

Where did you see these infos? I don`t see on Perry`s blog.

the info was from google not perrys blog, you quoted a policy change ? but there is not one.

you quote big changes but there are none,

So there are some serious changes about Adwords PPC affiliate marketing, maybe this is the end of the old review, product comparison, "tell a story, identify them..." etc. strategies. Google wants quality content and not garbage like this

you write that after g writes this, next the sky will be falling

Option 2: Redesign your web page to offer multiple, competing offers from different companies for related services. For example, a web page promoting a specific book could have links to four online bookshops from which one could purchase the book.

there are no changes and even though in that post people had land sites, it probably is a fair bet they still had a basic bridge page, just adding some pages around it was never going to work, it seems facts are lost in translation.

there is nothing new at all, and the only thing is G seems to be picking these pages up more.

as for forums full of full of free info from newbies ? there is more talent floating around here than you can poke a dozen sticks at on any given day.

maybe some of what is written is no more than smoke and mirrors on a misty morning, but nothing new in what you write or what is happening at G.

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

It should be noted that Google's strictness with landing pages extends to B2B landing pages designed to get opt-ins in exchange for white papers, reports, etc.

A client of mine in an highly specialized financial services niche for mid-market to large companies had a hell of a time getting their landing page to stay above QS of 2.

The landing page was/is a tastefully designed mini-site with prominent link to parent company (logo), privacy statement, about us page, and contact page (in addition to the landing page itself).

As for the landing page, it followed the design and copy principles as taught by Marketing Experiments (short-form). It averaged 15% opt-in which is pretty good.

It also followed basic SEO tactics and relevancy steps (related keywords, LSI keywords, etc.).

Then Google knocked QS down to 1.

I then made the landing page long-form and now QS is back up to 3 and individual keywords vacillate between 2 and 4 without rhyme or reason which indicates to me that some sort of algorithmic thing is going on as opposed to a human reviewer toying with the account.

Although we haven't had that much time with the long-form version showing, it looks like the conversion rate is going to be lower. ... sigh.

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indexphp

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

It should be noted that Google's strictness with landing pages extends to B2B landing pages designed to get opt-ins in exchange for white papers, reports, etc.

A client of mine in an highly specialized financial services niche for mid-market to large companies had a hell of a time getting their landing page to stay above QS of 2.

The landing page was/is a tastefully designed mini-site with prominent link to parent company (logo), privacy statement, about us page, and contact page (in addition to the landing page itself).

As for the landing page, it followed the design and copy principles as taught by Marketing Experiments (short-form). It averaged 15% opt-in which is pretty good.

It also followed basic SEO tactics and relevancy steps (related keywords, LSI keywords, etc.).

Then Google knocked QS down to 1.

I then made the landing page long-form and now QS is back up to 3 and individual keywords vacillate between 2 and 4 without rhyme or reason which indicates to me that some sort of algorithmic thing is going on as opposed to a human reviewer toying with the account.

Although we haven't had that much time with the long-form version showing, it looks like the conversion rate is going to be lower. ... sigh.

If your quality score is 3, you should pause the campaign immediately. You are ruining your account quality score by keeping it running.

Its been said 1,000,000 times on how to get good quality scores, but people still dont listen :rolleyes:

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by indexphp

If your quality score is 3, you should pause the campaign immediately. You are ruining your account quality score by keeping it running.

Its been said 1,000,000 times on how to get good quality scores, but people still dont listen :rolleyes:

Not very helpful advise.

This AdWords account exists for the sole purpose of offering this white paper in exchange for opt-ins.

As long as the ads are displaying, having a "ruined" account has no meaning.

Worst comes to worst, we will close the account and open a new one. For now, the ads are displaying.

The client is working on putting together a blog. Perhaps, we can fold the mini-site in to the blog once it has some content. Google will probably like that.

By the way, we're the only PPC ad showing at all for several highly competitive keywords (SEO-wise). We have only 1 competitor that has managed to keep their ads running on some of the keywords we're competing for- and their PPC ad lands on the homepage of a full-fledged website with lots of content.

Others have likely tried but been unable to keep their ads running due to Google's restrictions on "squeeze pages."

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indexphp

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

Not very helpful advise.

This AdWords account exists for the sole purpose of offering this white paper in exchange for opt-ins.

As long as the ads are displaying, having a "ruined" account has no meaning.

Worst comes to worst, we will close the account and open a new one. For now, the ads are displaying.

The client is working on putting together a blog. Perhaps, we can fold the mini-site in to the blog once it has some content. Google will probably like that.

By the way, we're the only PPC ad showing at all for several highly competitive keywords (SEO-wise). We have only 1 competitor that has managed to keep their ads running on some of the keywords we're competing for- and their PPC ad lands on the homepage of a full-fledged website with lots of content.

Others have likely tried but been unable to keep their ads running due to Google's restrictions on "squeeze pages."

with a QS of 3, you are overpaying for clicks. Opening a new account isnt the best idea either because you completely reset the privileges an established account has. For example, an account that has over $50k in spend gets more weight.

You CAN do squeeze pages. You just have to link out to other pages/areas of the site. You cant provide NO outbound links and 'force' the user to fill out the form or kick rocks. That is bad user experience.

Just use the standard 2 column template. A little navigation bar with 4 or 5 links, and a content section consisting of a headline, an optin box, and 300 words of unique content or so.

The KEY is the navigation. Google wants to see that. They think it provides good user experience, and UE is their MO. Do it this way and you'll get at least 6/10 QS. Of course the keywords have to be on the page as well.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by indexphp

You CAN do squeeze pages. You just have to link out to other pages/areas of the site. You cant provide NO outbound links and 'force' the user to fill out the form or kick rocks. That is bad user experience.

Bingo.

There's basically three issues going on here...

1. Poor individual KW relevance

Google is giving SOME of your keywords a QS 1... not all, right?

That means their robots are scanning your page and not finding relevance. I can't understand why people can't grasp this. Yes, human reviews happen, but most of your KW's scores are based on a simple site crawler (probably the same one used by Google's main web spiders)

Which means... you need to do more work on relevance. No wonder your QS went up when you added more content... BECAUSE GOOGLE HAS MORE CONTENT TO CRAWL AND FIND RELEVANCE!

2. You aren't giving people what they want

Each individual keyword carries its' own psychology and intention. It would be nice if we could slap hundreds of keywords into an Ad Group and send them to the same page as all the other Ad Groups... and expect results.

But humans don't work like that. And Google knows that all too well.

That's why they look at each keyword and say "hmm, your site isn't really about this keyword at all... so either change it or we'll put you on page 10, and raise prices"

3. As the quoted reply above eludes to... you're not being useful.

You are forcing people to give you their email address. Why they heck should they? What have you done for them lately? Who are you?

In the visitor's mind, all they are thinking is...

"Here we go again, another roadblock. I'm not giving my email address out again, last time I did that I got spammed and had to change my email account over. I'll just go to the other listing back on Google for the free info upfront."

Solution?

More relevance. More options. More reasons for reciprocation. More value.

Hope that sheds some technical and psychological light on the issue.

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Gene.Gerwin

14 years ago

OK. It looks like both of you didn't read my earlier post carefully.

1. The landing page had an outgoing link to the parent company's site

2. The landing page had links to additional pages internally

3. The landing page had unique content describing the white paper and the benefits to the reader for reading it

4. The ads and landing pages had both keyword matches and LSI related keywords

5. The opt-in is/was in exchange for an in-depth white paper not available anywhere else that they can download right away after opting in

Best practices were followed across the board.

But, I appreciate your feedback nonetheless.

As for overpaying for clicks, a single closed sale will net our client $250,000 to $500,000. The price per click is almost irrelevant. Of course, we want to lower the CPC as much as possible, but we won't close the account because the clicks are costing $0.5 extra.

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

OK. It looks like both of you didn't read my earlier post carefully.

1. The landing page had an outgoing link to the parent company's site

2. The landing page had links to additional pages internally

3. The landing page had unique content describing the white paper and the benefits to the reader for reading it

4. The ads and landing pages had both keyword matches and LSI related keywords

5. The opt-in is/was in exchange for an in-depth white paper not available anywhere else that they can download right away after opting in

Best practices were followed across the board.

But, I appreciate your feedback nonetheless.

As for overpaying for clicks, a single closed sale will net our client $250,000 to $500,000. The price per click is almost irrelevant. Of course, we want to lower the CPC as much as possible, but we won't close the account because the clicks are costing $0.5 extra.

Your original post was talking about a different site, now you're talking about a client's site with a different set up. I'm confused as to which one is causing the problem, but it doesn't really matter. The advice given is still valid.

Either way, I can understand your frustration, as I have been there myself. But what I can tell you without question, is that you're doing something wrong.

Google isn't out to get you. There's obviously something amiss in your set up, plain and simple.

Either that, or your entire account has been Google slapped because of something you did in the past which they didn't like (they track domains and usage quite vigorously, so they'll know).

If that is the case, then you're in line for the dreaded "we're sorry, but..." email.

That's the one where they close you down for good because of small ambiguities in the past (which they won't detail for you, no matter what.)

I hope it hasn't reached that stage, and I'm sure it's nothing that serious.

As I say, it's probably just something not matching on your site.

You say the keywords are a good match, but clearly, for whatever reason, Google doesn't agree. That's why you're getting a low QS score.

The bottom line is, it's not really about your marketing method, but more about your relevance on a keyword by keyword basis.

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tryinhere 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Gene.Gerwin

OK. It looks like both of you didn't read my earlier post carefully.

1. The landing page had an outgoing link to the parent company's site

.

why not just make the page a part of the parent site as a category / all site links / as soon as you do that you eliminate any bridge page to the parent site / per say ? or have i missed something
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- guzie 13 years ago
  
  Most replies to this thread are over-thinking the problem. What google wants is a good user experience and relevant content (most will agree to that). If your landing page takes you to another landing page for the sole purpose of making a purchase your are bridging.
  
  If the affiliate product you are trying sell is your very own and have your own payment processor there should be no problem.
  
  Selling a physical or digital product via your own payment process should not pose a problem. However if you have others selling your products via another landing page - Big problem!
  
  If you are selling other people's stuff...You will need to find a way to skip their landing page and go directly to the payment link. It's that simple - Really is.
  
  Think about it?...No I mean really think about it.
  
  "Websites that lead to e-commerce platforms on another domain (e.g. A shop that leads to a third-party site that purely acts as a secure server to process payments and is not a shop itself)" A direct quote from the google adwords TOS (terms of service page).
  
  My 5 cents worth. Use to be 2 cents but gotta adjust for inflation!
  Paul
  
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