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Ken Evoy's Opinion about Artilce Spinning........

by TheNewGuy2010
57 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Article



I think Ken is spot on.......as I get away from using all of those "tools" and actually work on building a REAL long term business, This article is very refreshing.
#artilce #evoy #ken #opinion #spinning
  • Profile picture of the author AndrewHansen
    I like this:

    "No trick that is meant to manipulate the engines to deliver sub-optimal search results has survived."

    Great article.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Yup, Dr. Evoy is a smart cookie...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      I hope the future proves him to be right.
      Yes ... I hope so, too - very much so. (Clearly he's not quite right at the moment, but we're all allowed a bit of "idealism"!). Interesting article, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author kelana
    A very good article indeed.

    Apart from the 'trying to fool Google' aspect, I have seen some hilarious results from article spinning, where the 'author' has not bothered to check the readability of the product, an example being...'free tools to sprint your business' - sprint being used as a synonym of run!

    Cheers - Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author MilesT
    I think some of you missed the point.

    Which could have been put more succinctly than it was, which is...

    You are what you eat (and expel).

    This wasn't so much an article about marketing as much as it was contrasting the character of the marketer using these tactics with those that don't.

    There are bigger ideas here of delayed gratification, common sense and your viability as a business person. Its a message that has been forming in the minds of many marketers about where we are going as an industry, who's leading it, do we trust them, and what is our contribution.

    If you owned a storefront on Main Street, would "spinning," "eluding," and blatant exaggeration keep your employees paid, your doors open, and your reputation in tact? What if 30% or 50% of store owners operated this way?

    I think he took a diplomatic approach as stating IM'ers need to think in terms of long-term survival instead of pissing away the reputation of the industry.
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    • Profile picture of the author westcoastinfo
      If you owned a storefront on Main Street, would "spinning," "eluding," and blatant exaggeration keep your employees paid, your doors open, and your reputation in tact? What if 30% or 50% of store owners operated this way?
      Take a niche like "banking and credit cards " they all run this way and then get helped by Govt.Make it while you can ask Lehman,Goldman etc.Remember we are there for todays paycheck as Google may change the rules at a moments notice and then the long haul changes anyway
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by westcoastinfo View Post

        If you owned a storefront on Main Street, would "spinning," "eluding," and blatant exaggeration keep your employees paid, your doors open, and your reputation in tact?
        you're talking about completely different things... spinning - what's that got to do with 'exaggeration'? and yes - exaggeration is what many businesses successfully to make sales....

        Moralising over other people doesn't pay the bills.
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    • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
      Originally Posted by MilesT View Post

      If you owned a storefront on Main Street, would "spinning," "eluding," and blatant exaggeration keep your employees paid, your doors open, and your reputation in tact? What if 30% or 50% of store owners operated this way?
      You must be into politics. There is a difference between 'spinning' and 'eluding' or 'blatant exaggeration'. Granted, Politicians 'spin' the truth into a lie everyday, but that is not what this topic is about. It is about using the same article with different wording at different places.

      If I have a website in a particular niche, and take the ten most popular search terms for the topic I chose, then I could conceivably write one article ten times substituting one of the key words for each of the copies. Then I could use spinning to create another ten copies each for a total of 100 similar articles using ten different keywords. Then submit them to ten directories. IF that is where they stopped, that could be conceived as trickery to the SEs, which is commonly called 'black hat'.

      John might have a blog that focuses on the Obama Health Care Plan. One of my articles may be focused on "Affording Better Health Care" and briefly mention the Obama Health Care Plan. John finds it useful for his site so he uses it. What trickery was there in that? Different versions attract different people.

      Do the brick-n-mortar businesses use this approach? Chrystler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep -- hmmm, maybe even Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. GM, Chevrolet, Cadillac...Toyota, Lexus.... The list goes on. How about Mountain Dew and Mountain Lion, or Dr Perky and Dr Pepper? Competitors, but it is spinning. Is it legal? Is it moral? Is it ethical?

      I imagine that the marketshare of blogs is giving way in favor of Web 2.0. After all a combination of Facebook, Twitter and Gmail is easier to work than WordPress and may actually reach thousands of more people in much less time. More than that, they are a better, targeted and interested market. But, there are still users of Usenet, the predecessor to eMail.

      So, I expect Article Marketing will continue to work, but with a reduced ROI over the coming years.

      Article Spinning, if done right, will provide a better ROI than all duplicate articles, but random-spun articles which produce jibberish will fall to the wayside with the SEs as useless content.

      My two cents.
      Good Night and God Bless
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

    He's positioned as an expert and so he's obviously going to talk in a way that supports that. I prefer to watch what people do rather than what they say, but people are usually just doing what they believe is the best with the information and resources they have so criticising them or making people out to be inferior if they choose a different model doesn't really accomplish a lot.

    There are valid reasons for people to spin content and not all of them are about getting crap out en-mass.

    It's nice to talk about this stuff, but it's not likely to change any people's minds or actions.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

      He's positioned as an expert and so he's obviously going to talk in a way that supports that. I prefer to watch what people do rather than what they say, but people are usually just doing what they believe is the best with the information and resources they have so criticising them or making people out to be inferior if they choose a different model doesn't really accomplish a lot.

      There are valid reasons for people to spin content and not all of them are about getting crap out en-mass.

      It's nice to talk about this stuff, but it's not likely to change any people's minds or actions.

      Andy

      The only "valid reason" that I see people use, to define their motives behind using spun content, is that they want to manipulate the search engines...

      They are chasing top rankings in Google, and using spun content to achieve that...

      What happens when Google changes its algorithms and that technique does not work anymore?

      If you rely only on Google for your way of life, you are only one algorithm tweak away from financial catastrophe!

      Don't put all of your eggs into the Google basket... They are only one channel of traffic...

      If you are going to spin articles, spin them with care and attention to the reader who could eventually, possibly read your article, or else your only hope is the search engines, and that is never guaranteed...
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        The only "valid reason" that I see people use, to define their motives behind using spun content, is that they want to manipulate the search engines...

        They are chasing top rankings in Google, and using spun content to achieve that...

        What happens when Google changes its algorithms and that technique does not work anymore?

        If you rely only on Google for your way of life, you are only one algorithm tweak away from financial catastrophe!

        Don't put all of your eggs into the Google basket... They are only one channel of traffic...

        If you are going to spin articles, spin them with care and attention to the reader who could eventually, possibly read your article, or else your only hope is the search engines, and that is never guaranteed...
        I'd be perfectly happy if Google disappeared tomorrow.

        Not everything is about trying to trick the search engines....
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    I will carry on spinning my articles so I can submit them to all the article directories I can. Now when I say spinning I mean manual spinning with software to help. I actually put in a few hours doing this for each article and you know what, the whole article makes sense. In most cases, the real reason you're spinning articles is so you can send it out for backlinks. There's definately not much value ie in terms of anyone seeing it but the value I'll take is the backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author DatingGold Adrian
      I don't know about this one.. back links, article submits, link wheels, ABC link trades, intentionally not nofollowing paid hard links, doorways, autoblogs, comments, even clean ones, for the purpose of link building, the list goes on.. all technically ways to circumvent the straight path, all widely accepted and used techniques which have proven to work long-term.

      I liked the article! ... I'm just sayin'
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    • Profile picture of the author badlimey
      Originally Posted by Michael Nguyen View Post

      In most cases, the real reason you're spinning articles is so you can send it out for backlinks. There's definately not much value ie in terms of anyone seeing it but the value I'll take is the backlinks.
      My, my, if your article adds credibility to your ultimate offer surely there are benefits to it being read.

      I was recently doing some competitor research for a computer repair business in Houston. When I went to look at a site in the top 4 of Google, I saw that the main body of their text was nothing more than keywords loosely strung together into something that looked (To anyone that doesn't understand SEO) like it had been written by a 7 year old.

      How many people do you think trust them to fix their computers? Quality will always win over quantity in the long run.

      And to digress a little, SBI is slightly ahead of it's time amd as wildly succesful as it appears; it is not marketed to its full potential. I know it has made Ken a very wealthy man and he has earned every penny because he sells integrity built right in.

      But I see a trend where under the guise of SEO hosting, more SBI type products with the related add ons and upsells are about to enter the fray.

      Ken if you are reading this, or perhaps your equally able watchdog (And I mean that as a compliment Stacy) is reading this. hit me up and I wil show YOU how to make it really sexy!

      Improve the Web it is already adequately filled with crap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Article spinning a form to optimize a blog or website to try handling their rankings in Google and other search engines. Now rewriting of existing buildings or parts of buildings and replace them to avoid punishment in the search engines (SERP) using the duplication article. Key members often plagiarized from other countries, violations of law with permission of the copyright and wrote the original use.

    Website owners pay the brain of a spider, rewritten or parts of buildings. The author is the name of an individual, either myself or to directly sell products so that small changes, customers and products for various purposes, such as availability of product and crops. There are many programs automatically modify the words or phrases in the article. Instructions direct interpretation of the sentence by using words that are similar, but slightly reflect, as described in previous changes. For example, word "view" alternative "or" picture of the word "image." Thousands of words in a combination of words in text or database file stored similar recognition. This will ensure that major of this is strange from the premiere article.
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Article spinning a form to optimize a blog or website to try handling their rankings in Google and other search engines. Now rewriting of existing buildings or parts of buildings and replace them to avoid punishment in the search engines (SERP) using the duplication article. Key members often plagiarized from other countries, violations of law with permission of the copyright and wrote the original use.

      Website owners pay the brain of a spider, rewritten or parts of buildings. The author is the name of an individual, either myself or to directly sell products so that small changes, customers and products for various purposes, such as availability of product and crops. There are many programs automatically modify the words or phrases in the article. Instructions direct interpretation of the sentence by using words that are similar, but slightly reflect, as described in previous changes. For example, word "view" alternative "or" picture of the word "image." Thousands of words in a combination of words in text or database file stored similar recognition. This will ensure that major of this is strange from the premiere article.
      Hey Steven, it works.

      "Website owners pay the brain of a spider" - Google Search
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      • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
        I love articles like these. This reaffirms what I believe about content. Original content written from your perspective will always serve you better in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    I think I just insulted myself. I read Ken's article, and was misled by the leading sentences. He started off talking about content on your own blogs, but the article was about submitting articles to article directories.

    I deleted my original post here and answered on my blog, with a bit more intelligence.

    I think Ken is right about submitting spun articles to article directories. I have searched many a directory to find articles and even subscribed to one that would email them to me. The only problem is that everyday, I recognize the newest PLR release because I get a dozen or more spun versions. One has pointed facts, another has pointed questions. Then I get some plain-janes that have synonyms and others that have a dumb intro at the top, a stupid remark in the middle and a closing that makes me want to puke. Some just don't make sense and I quit using those article directories.

    I am convinced that the times are changing and that the value of article marketing may be fading in favor of other channels. But I don't believe it is dead.

    I do have to agree, that it is better to submit unique, not spun, articles to the directories. You can have them ghost written from about $1 - $15 each depending on the source and quality.

    Spinning the one article for multiple directories may not be required. Ezine Articles requires a unique version, but other places will accept them even if they were submitted elsewhere. Only on a rare occasion do I see the need to spin them for submission, though.

    More important than uniqueness is SEO. Keyword linking to your site and to the other articles in your site will do more good than spinning or submitting unique articles.

    My apologies about my blunder.

    Later
    Buck
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I learned more from Ken Evoy than anyone I can think of when I first started in IM. He was teaching the value of optimizing articles with keywords even before Google new what the word meant. The last half a dozen things that grey and black hatters disagreed with him on he has been proven right. He may seldom be right for quick manipulative results because that has never been his style. For building a long term white hat e-business I would listen.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yep, sprint/run is a GOOD example of the fallacy of the simplest processing involved in "spinning".

    I sprinted down the road? CLOSE, but not quite.
    He sprinted a good ship? WHAT!?!?!?
    You have to sprint the program? WWHAT!?!?!?
    If word is sprinted? WHAT!?!?!?
    It was a full days sprint? MISLEADING!

    And I used to think that typos and foreign writers were all I had to worry about.

    Or should I say...

    Plus I old to consider plates and odd printers were the only cares I had!

    HECK, I am STILL reeling from the manual I once read, because I was bored, that spoke of a watertight antenna! I swear, some old foreign documents were just ODD!!!!

    Or should I say:

    DARN, I keep on taping over the old transmission I one time scanned, while I was tired, that said something about an airtight dipole. I swear, several old odd writings were just strange!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Ldimilo
    Spinning Articles has its place unfortunately because of how google ranks keywords. Most spun articles are placed in places where there is little to no foot traffic for the expressed purpose of harvesting a link.

    The search engines see it. Most of the time, others don't.

    Spun content is typically not meant for anything but a link...the writer of the spun content typically doesn't promote it or even build backlinks to the content. Most of the time regular people don't ever see it. It is meant simply to satisfy Google when it comes to ranking the keywords you are gunning for.

    Until Google decides to change how it ranks websites, this won't change.

    For me, there is really little difference between cranking out links on forum profiles and spinning content; both aren't meant to be seen by anyone other than the search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Why do people seem to think that spinning is all about trying to automatically replace words with ones that mean the same thing?

    I use spinning - manually - to replace product names and item names.

    So - for example, if I'm selling SLR cameras, there might be 5 different similar cameras that I want to review - so I write the review and in it point to several other articles which talk more generally about photography and camera shoot techniques.

    I like the general article to mention that specific model. so I just spin the article 5 times replacing the make and model, so that when the article mentions SLR cameras, it will say "such as the {model1¦model2¦model3}" and mention the one they were just looking at. And if I let the search engines index those then people landing on them get a similar experience and go through to a page about a specific model from reading a general article.

    It also means I can test and track different products to see which ones get the clicks so that I don't waste time promoting things that aren't as popular.

    This is basic marketing - it's stuff everyone SHOULD be doing.

    The spinning is NOT for the search engines - it's for the readers. It means they get a better experience and don't even notice what's happening.

    It means I get better conversion rates - my visitors get a smoother experience and everyone's happy.

    All this moralising about the use of tools and techniques where people assume that if you're using a tactic that you must be a spammer and should go to hell for ruining the industry - says more about the person saying it than it does about the people they're criticising.

    This industry is way too full of people telling others what to do with no real awareness of the negative impact their own words have on the situation.

    Sure - there are people abusing spinning tools and churning out crap - some of them making more money than we'll ever make - but that's about the people not the tools or the strategies.

    I could use social media to promote hateful messages - that doesn't mean social media is evil.

    I think people need to stop looking for problems in what everyone else is doing and just keep their own house in order - that's all you really have control over or responsibility for.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Why do people seem to think that spinning is all about trying to automatically replace words with ones that mean the same thing?

      The spinning is NOT for the search engines - it's for the readers. It means they get a better experience and don't even notice what's happening.

      Andy
      Andy, Your words are very true, but the problem is too many people use the tools the other way.

      Responsible spinners SHOULD keep on doing their job. They are providing a service, and creating a good experience for readers/visitors.

      The ones who spin just to create a massive bulk of articles to feed every article directory under the sun are the ones which drive most of us crazy.

      There are full sentence replacement spinners which work fairly well at still producing readable articles which maintain their original message, but those require more work, which is what they were trying to avoid in the first place.

      In the end it comes down to the person behind the software and their intent. It can be used for great benefit, as in your case, or total havoc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

        Andy, Your words are very true, but the problem is too many people use the tools the other way.
        But that's not MY problem - or yours.

        If people want to try and trick Google - let them. Who cares?

        Any time spent preaching to them or criticising them is time NOT spend doing something more productive.

        I'm probably wasting my time posting here - but I see so many people jumping on their high horses trashing what others are doing that it sometimes gets too much.

        Google has its own business model - you can factor that in - or not, the choice is yours.

        I don't control what other people do, so it's not in my plan to try and cater for it - I just care about what works for me and the environment I'm operating in. Sure there is crap filling the results while I'm trying to get good content seen - but that's Google's job to sort out so that's where I leave it. Until I own the search engines I'm not wasting my time worrying about what they need to do to get their bit right - I just make sure that if I want them to help me - I factor in what they ultimately want (i.e good things for their searchers to find).

        If someone's making 8 figures throwing up crap content that isn't readable - that's their business. THEY are the ones who need to look over their shoulder and wonder if their revenue will suddenly stop.

        I say just let people get on with their business and we get on with ours.

        We're not the cyber police.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Why do people seem to think that spinning is all about trying to automatically replace words with ones that mean the same thing?
      I also use a spinner to help tweak sales letters. The one thing spinners are decent at are adjectives, and sales letters use a lot of adjectives, so it's really like giving rewrite suggestions as I hit "respin".

      Sure, I have to rewrite, but that's OK because I was just using the spinner as a "batch thesaurus".
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Why do people seem to think that spinning is all about trying to automatically replace words with ones that mean the same thing?

      I use spinning - manually - to replace product names and item names.

      So - for example, if I'm selling SLR cameras, there might be 5 different similar cameras that I want to review - so I write the review and in it point to several other articles which talk more generally about photography and camera shoot techniques.
      Well, I for one don't consider THAT spinning! If we are to consider adapting a page to another product to be spinning, then what is NOT spinning? Look closely at AMAZON! MOST pages are nothing more than the same page with different words and pictures. Sometimes, the picture doesn't change, and sometimes even almost none of the text does.

      BUT what you are talking about is clearly NOT what the OP was talking about. HECK, if they wanted that, a cheap script, that is probably widely available, but could be written in MINUTES, could negate the need to have any people working on it.

      As for not doing it for the people, but for search engines, Some engines, such as Google, are getting pretty smart. If you hide text from people, they may determine your site is deceptive and deindex it. It takes color, position, and even redirects into account. So whatever you put there people are likely to see.

      Steve

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      8< snipped

      So - for example, if I'm selling SLR cameras, there might be 5 different similar cameras that I want to review - so I write the review and in it point to several other articles which talk more generally about photography and camera shoot techniques.

      8< snipped
      Bravo Andy. A good quality and accurate review on a product range, spun
      properly, and integrated into a database is actually doing a service for the
      reader.

      I have several spun articles where I actually add value. No other marketer
      would touch these keywords because of the low search volumes... but
      when you add a lot of those low searched volumes together...

      Glenn
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Why do people seem to think that spinning is all about trying to automatically replace words with ones that mean the same thing?

    I use spinning - manually - to replace product names and item names.

    So - for example, if I'm selling SLR cameras, there might be 5 different similar cameras that I want to review - so I write the review and in it point to several other articles which talk more generally about photography and camera shoot techniques.

    I like the general article to mention that specific model. so I just spin the article 5 times replacing the make and model, so that when the article mentions SLR cameras, it will say "such as the {model1¦model2¦model3}" and mention the one they were just looking at. And if I let the search engines index those then people landing on them get a similar experience and go through to a page about a specific model from reading a general article.

    It also means I can test and track different products to see which ones get the clicks so that I don't waste time promoting things that aren't as popular.

    This is basic marketing - it's stuff everyone SHOULD be doing.

    The spinning is NOT for the search engines - it's for the readers. It means they get a better experience and don't even notice what's happening.

    It means I get better conversion rates - my visitors get a smoother experience and everyone's happy.

    All this moralising about the use of tools and techniques where people assume that if you're using a tactic that you must be a spammer and should go to hell for ruining the industry - says more about the person saying it than it does about the people they're criticising.

    This industry is way too full of people telling others what to do with no real awareness of the negative impact their own words have on the situation.

    Sure - there are people abusing spinning tools and churning out crap - some of them making more money than we'll ever make - but that's about the people not the tools or the strategies.

    I could use social media to promote hateful messages - that doesn't mean social media is evil.

    I think people need to stop looking for problems in what everyone else is doing and just keep their own house in order - that's all you really have control over or responsibility for.

    Andy
    Thanks Andy - I've been trying to say that same thing in most of these spinning posts but could never say it as good as you just did!

    Actually, I hope less people use spinning because that just makes it easier for me!

    Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author themeforest
    Isn't this an issue about white hat vs black hat?

    There are two kinds of articles - the meaningful ones for human to read, and the meaningless keyword-infested ones for Google robots.

    If there are any tricks and tools for Internet marketers to get top ranking fast, people will grab. Do what it takes. Make hay while the sun shine...until Google ban them. Then they hop on to the next trick.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by themeforest View Post

      If there are any tricks and tools for Internet marketers to get top ranking fast, people will grab. Do what it takes. Make hay while the sun shine...until Google ban them. Then they hop on to the next trick.
      Not marketers who want to have a business, an identity, and feel proud to show people what they are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ZaraK
    The more crap people throw out there the more crap there is to wade through every day. Then in order for your crap to stand out in the sludgeload of crap it has to be bigger, stinkier crap.

    Back in the 60s we used to say if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

    Sturgeons Law certainly applies to IM. (For those unfamiliar, Google).
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by ZaraK View Post

      The more crap people throw out there the more crap there is to wade through every day. Then in order for your crap to stand out in the sludgeload of crap it has to be bigger, stinkier crap.

      Back in the 60s we used to say if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

      Sturgeons Law certainly applies to IM. (For those unfamiliar, Google).
      That thinking only applies if you're playing the same - throw crap out game as the others.

      Having excellent content that people like does much more than just attract search visitors.

      Not everything is a numbers game about trying to out blast your enemies pages.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by ZaraK View Post

      The more crap people throw out there the more crap there is to wade through every day. Then in order for your crap to stand out in the sludgeload of crap it has to be bigger, stinkier crap.

      Back in the 60s we used to say if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

      Sturgeons Law certainly applies to IM. (For those unfamiliar, Google).
      So I'm supposed to be part of the "solution" for a billion dollar company and care about their bottom line but not my own and automatically sign up to follow their "rules"? OK, but only if Google follows my business' rules. Fair is fair.

      Plus, crap is crap and doesn't have to be spun to be crap. There's tons of crap on the Net that hasn't been spun.

      And if it is well spun you don't even know it's spun.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Is that something like the mash of rap and country music which creates crap?



        You in Denver??

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        So I'm supposed to be part of the "solution" for a billion dollar company and care about their bottom line but not my own and automatically sign up to follow their "rules"? OK, but only if Google follows my business' rules. Fair is fair.

        Plus, crap is crap and doesn't have to be spun to be crap. There's tons of crap on the Net that hasn't been spun.

        And if it is well spun you don't even know it's spun.
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        • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          Is that something like the mash of rap and country music which creates crap?
          Sometimes it works though...


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          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
            Hey its Chickuits?


            Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

            Sometimes it works though...

            YouTube - Colt Ford - Chicken and Biscuits
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            • Profile picture of the author StacyHolmes
              Ken Evoy happened to catch this thread the other day. He asked me to post for him. The following are his words . . .

              Stacy
              from SiteSell Answers
              http://answers.sitesell.com


              -------------

              Hello to all,

              This thread caught my attention. Great content and interesting debate. At the end of the day, though, I think Andy Henry boils it down best...

              Ken Evoy's Opinion about Artilce Spinning........

              My position on article spinning is really very simple, so I'm surprised that the article quoted in the first post caught so much attention...

              Article Spinning, Good or Bad? - SiteSell Blog

              It can be summarized/generalized as follows...

              If you aren't creating value for a human reader, if you're doing something purely for the Search Engines and not for humans, when it gets out of hand, Google will shut it down, just as it "danced on" splogging and damaged the large splogging group that attacked us two years ago (not my opinion, this has been admitted by the "splogging gurus").

              --

              Remember this ... no trick (as perceived by the engines) in the history of Internet Marketing has ever survived the constant onslaught of steady search engine improvement. I'm sure there are some clever folks here with tricks that work. My advice? Don't talk about it. The longer it stays quiet, the longer it does not make it onto the P1 priority fix list (Google does not really "fix", they "improve" until your trick simply gets caught up in the latest improvement.)

              Sooner or later, though, other smart people will discover the trick. Then someone writes an article. Then tools emerge to automate. And then everyone knows about it and Google feels the attack on the quality of its results.

              THAT is when you are on the P1 list, with a limited shelf life.

              That's where article-spinning is now. If it's not, it's close.

              In any event, that article was a disappassionate dissection of article-spinning. That's it.

              --

              Therefore, I find bgmacaw's response, a senior member here with over 3,000 posts, somewhat surprising. I'm talking about this reply...

              Ken Evoy's Opinion about Artilce Spinning........

              We don't "trash" other people's business models. If article spinning is fundamentally a weak concept because ultimately it's about building zero-value links to get higher rankings, we say so. A factual article is not trashing. If you care to debate any of my major articles, I'm open to it, bgmacaw.

              In fact, bgmacaw seems much more open to attacking SiteSell and me personally with no similar dispassionate, factual backup.

              If I recall correctly, bgmacaw also posted links in this forum to fake reviews by the splogging gurus who had attacked us with a massive link-bomb attack (which was the actual prupose of all those reviews).

              These same gurus had their blogs banned, but came back later, admitting that Google was closing down splogging, the effectiveiness dropping, and that "authority sites" were the way to go. Authority sites is what SBI! has been advocating for over 10 years. Yet, none of these guys have ever posted an admission that SBI!'s philosophy was correct.

              --

              We call issues the way we see them. If others, who sell these "systems," feel attacked, I can't help that.

              Are we selling SBI! in the process? Of course. But the underlying material is accurate and truthful, NOT an attack. If we were NOT selling SBI!, my position would be more like Andy's...

              "Hey folks, do what you like. But Google has its own business model. If you fool with it, you'll pay the penalty. That's not MY problem. Who cares?"

              Andy does not care what others do. He "just makes sure that if I want them to help me - I factor in what they ultimately want (i.e good things for their searchers to find)."

              Then he gets on with HIS business.

              Well, OUR business is helping people who have yet to succeed online follow a common-sense philosophy like Andy's, by providing the process/information, all-the-tools, help/guidance and constant updating and upgrading so they can do the same.

              Professional Internet marketers tend to lose track of the fact that most people simply cannot assimilate all the information, stuff for sale, get solid help, AND stay up to date. SBI! is not "just" for newbies -- it's for anyone who has yet to succeed online.

              Selling SBI!, though, does not make our articles any less factual and article-spinning WILL be hit by Google sooner or later in a Google Dance (likely "sooner"), just like we predicted splogging would be. Nor does it change the fact that there are people today making money by spinning articles (and still some by splogging). They're the smartest, but as Andy said, they need to "look over their shoulders."

              Because it's only a matter of time before Google's algorithms pick them up. Hope this clarifies our position and motives.

              All the best,
              Ken Evoy
              Founder, SiteSell.com


              P.S. to Mark -- Thanks for the compliment ( Ken Evoy's Opinion about Artilce Spinning........ ). One correction -- we do not offer canned reviews to affiliates. We do give them a set of tools and instructions for how to tell their stories/experiences with SBI!. But the results that they put out are as varied as SBI! sites themselves.
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              http://answers.sitesell.com

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          • Profile picture of the author Laurie Rogers
            I personally have a lot of respect for Ken (even though I sometimes get a bit annoyed about the repetitiveness about Site Build It - which I did use way back when he first launched it) .. however, MYSS was like the holy grail for a long time and really helped me a lot.

            I don't spin articles, buy spun articles, PLR or any of the other related stuff. I like my content unique and original and plan on keeping it that way.
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          • Profile picture of the author packerfan
            Isn't it a little ironic. Everyone in this thread is bashing "spinning."

            But 90% have products in their signature that are nothing but rehashed ideas with a "spin" on them.

            Here's the reality that no one want's talk about. 99% of all content on the web isn't original.

            Sure putting an article in a spinner and outputting some unreadable garbage isn't doing anything great for the web. But the reality is neither is 99% of the rest of the stuff out there.

            Unless you're doing something like breaking a news story, all your doing is "spinning" an idea that someone else has had and likely has written about.
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            Nothing to see here

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            • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
              Originally Posted by packerfan View Post

              Isn't it a little ironic. Everyone in this thread is bashing "spinning."

              But 90% have products in their signature that are nothing but rehashed ideas with a "spin" on them.

              Here's the reality that no one want's talk about. 99% of all content on the web isn't original.

              Sure putting an article in a spinner and outputting some unreadable garbage isn't doing anything great for the web. But the reality is neither is 99% of the rest of the stuff out there.

              Unless you're doing something like breaking a news story, all your doing is "spinning" an idea that someone else has had and likely has written about.
              Nothing ironic at all. You're making an obvious apples to oranges comparison. Spinning an article and placing a spin or creating an angle on original content are not even in the same thing. At best they're sharing the same word, but with very succinctly different meanings.

              There's no irony whatsoever.

              RoD
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              "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
              - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    If you owned a storefront on Main Street, would "spinning," "eluding," and blatant exaggeration keep your employees paid, your doors open, and your reputation in tact? What if 30% or 50% of store owners operated this way?
    Yeah, but what about if the leveraged what they already had to be able to reach more customers and enhance their customers experience just like Andy described above? I think that would be smart business, don't you?

    Lee
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    Gone Fishing
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    • Profile picture of the author ZaraK
      Crap is crap.
      Not-crap is not-crap.

      Only you know what side of the line you're on.
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  • Profile picture of the author snapcontent
    Most 'articles' nowadays aren't 'written'. They are patched together with software. So complaining about spinning is pretty pointless. It isn't going away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cash37
    Unless Cuts says it I dont read it....
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    I loved reading this article and feel affirmed in my own views.

    Google are smart so even if you fool them today you will end up getting your batty kicked as your site falls of the scanner!

    It takes longer but original content and articles are worth it!

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post


      It takes longer but original content and articles are worth it!

      John
      That is true, especially for your own site. However, when you submit the articles to different article directories, Spinning might get you ahead if it is used to tweak the keywords, or to produce different articles with different keywords.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      I loved reading this article and feel affirmed in my own views.

      Google are smart so even if you fool them today you will end up getting your batty kicked as your site falls of the scanner!

      It takes longer but original content and articles are worth it!

      John

      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom


      I love articles like these. This reaffirms what I believe about content. Original content written from your perspective will always serve you better in the long run.

      Is my mind playing tricks on me now - those look like respun replies
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      nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author N4PGW
    Ever split-test a sales page? That is similar to spinning. You reword the attention getting sentence in the beginning of the page until it doesn't improve any more. Some forms of article spinning can have a similar effect. One version might be chosen over another, especially if the keywords are properly spun.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The only "valid reason" that I see people use, to define their motives behind using spun content, is that they want to manipulate the search engines...
    Everything you/we do online is designed in some fashion or form to manipulate the search engines to get the desired results. No one does anything to make sure their site ranks 1000.

    Spin or not Spin, autoblog or not. Whatever your doing its a direct attempt to get some love out of the SERPS. FACT.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tymarkinc
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Everything you/we do online is designed in some fashion or form to manipulate the search engines to get the desired results. No one does anything to make sure their site ranks 1000.

      Spin or not Spin, autoblog or not. Whatever your doing its a direct attempt to get some love out of the SERPS. FACT.
      You are spot on... Links are intended to be editorial votes for your site. That blog or forum comment you leave with a link back to your site is a form of manipulation. 99% of our activities are, and it just how the game is setup.

      You are spinning that article because you don't have the budget to hire a team of writers to sit there and right content all day for you like these major corporations.

      Content is King, but content is controlled by the all mighty dollar.

      P.S. Ken is the man(very smart dude), but SBI does offer canned reviews to it's affiliates last time I checked. I guess you could use that as is or SPIN it.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevL
    He he

    Artilce spinning sounds great!!

    I do agree with Ken. Ken is a great guy to listen to.

    Article marketing is changing a LOT anyway, If you're using article marketing for SEO purposes, you'll need to start changing the way you write & use articles - if you want it to continue having an effect.

    Article spinning is based on the thought that quantity is important, which has been the case in the past, and still is to a certain degree now - but that's what's changing. Like all off page SEO, it's becoming less & less about quantity, more & more about quality and topical relevance.

    Cheers

    Kev
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    SEO Kev
    Small business SEO / Web Marketing Tips.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetworkCorridor
    It is certainly a dis honest service offering to the general public anything less than an original, well documented, informative valued articles.
    As a consumer it seems to be unpractical to receive information based on the most gamed back links, as apposed to simply the best article.
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    Your Internet Marketing Community with everything. Post your product and Services, Network and find answers fast.
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    • Profile picture of the author mounds
      Good read, although I'm sure there are moments where spinning an article makes sense.

      The way I see it is that it's in Google's best interest to keep their users away from poor content. Most people using search engines don't have a clue how they work. All they recognize is how relevant the results are to their search. If the results are consistently bad, it will reflect badly on Google.

      It's no surprise that unreadable content is getting spanked. Google is a company and they want to make money. That means that once in a while they have to clean the Augean Stables. If the manure laying on the stable floor happens to be your income, it might be time to try something new.

      -Tim
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