Are BAD backlinks worse than NO Backlinks?

Banned 12 years ago

We're talking about numbers here! Of course zero backlinks is much worse than bad backlinks.

No backlinks = no traffic
Bad backlinks = bad traffic (but at least you have numbers)

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Buyseech

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lamposproject

We're talking about numbers here! Of course zero backlinks is much worse than bad backlinks.

No backlinks = no traffic
Bad backlinks = bad traffic (but at least you have numbers)

Hi there,

I am not saying 0 backlinks.

I am saying 30 quality or 30 quality + 300 totaly irelevant yet High PR.

Googles view on the above.

I am not speaking directly about traffic.

Sincerely, Buyseech

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bonusdays 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

I am saying 30 quality or 30 quality + 300 totaly irelevant yet High PR.

Yes, "bad" (as you call it) backlinks add value. Sometime much more than you would ever image!

So... 30 + 300 "totally irrelevant" is WAY better than 30 quality links by themselves.
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Tom Goodwin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Hi there,

I am really curious to hear your oppinion on this subject.

Are totally irelevant backlinks better or worse than 0 backlinks at all.

Hi there,

First, even if one could classify backlinks as good or bad, "totally irrelevant" backlinks wouldn't be bad backlinks. Your title of the thread was pretty confusing to me on that basis. "bad" backlinks would be things like linking in to your site from porn sites, or with the anchor text "cheap cialis".

I never ever go after "relevant" backlinks (of course, some will end up being relevant due to sheer randomness), and it has always served me well. A PR5 link from a hamster page will help your IM site tremendously. In any event, i'm not even sure how one would define relevancy here. Your time will be better spent going after quality links, no matter the topic of the linking site.

Second, no bad backlinks will not hurt you, or be worse than zero backlinks. If backlinks could hurt you like that, you could simply be #1 in Google by sending "bad" backlinks to your competitiors' sites and you would be #1 by default.

Tom

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paulgl 12 years ago

If people really thought about irrelevant backlinks, they would stop
putting sigs in their posts. I don't think there's anything remotely
called an irrelevant backlink. You are assuming google and you are
in agreement as to what the page is about. And that they care.

I'd say 99% of backlinks that people get are irrelevant. It has to be.

I'll tell you what the best kept secret here is. Backlinking on your own
sites to your other sites.

However, PR, now that's a different story. Go for as high PR as possible.
I'd rather get 1-2 PR4 and above, than 100 PR1.

But in the end, a backlink is a backlink is a backlink.

Paul
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0b1

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Hi there,
Second, no bad backlinks will not hurt you, or be worse than zero backlinks. If backlinks could hurt you like that, you could simply be #1 in Google by sending "bad" backlinks to your competitiors' sites and you would be #1 by default.
Tom

I wanted to say the same thing, but Tom said it better

Anyways I read a long time ago that Google wont penalize your website just because that website received links from Badsites, because this sort of things are beyond the control of the webmaster, HOWEVER if your site links to this bad sites you may be penalized
-Brandon

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Ehsan_am

12 years ago

As Tom said there is no such thing as a bad backlink. Worst case scenario your backlink doesn't count but that is as bad as it gets. So it is always better to have a backlink than 0 backlink.

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alextuder

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ehsan_am

As Tom said there is no such thing as a bad backlink. Worst case scenario your backlink doesn't count but that is as bad as it gets. So it is always better to have a backlink than 0 backlink.

I second that. Its they (Baclinks) who are linking to you.

If they r relevant = You are happy
If they r relevant + Good PR = You are happier
If they are irrelevant= Don't give a damn

"Make sure you don't link to them". That's all

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jhonsean

12 years ago

Many of us differentiate and classified those badlinks as a purpose of conversations they had been must overlooked at and i think that good backlinks & bad backlinks is always a backlinks no matter what.

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Steve Murphy

12 years ago

Hi there,

I have some difficulty in figuring out what you mean by a "bad" backlink.

Does not compute!

We all realise that the "ideal" back link would be from a high PR authority site/blog/forum with direct relevance to our anchor text and our own site.

However, this "ideal" backlink can be difficult to find and to secure so we have to compromise. Maybe we can find a PR9 site but with no direct relevance; maybe we can also find several PR0 site with direct relevance. Which would you choose?

I tend to go for a mix.

I find it difficult to refuse a PR9 link (relevant or not) even if I only build a sig

As far as Google are concerned, I reckon that any link is better than no link. The old favourites, of course, always apply: have a balanced strategy which includes nofollow links too; never spam.

Cheers,

Steve

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Buyseech

12 years ago

Hi guys,

by BAD backlink I meant IRRELEVANT linking.

If I have a site about dishwashers, there is no point in linking it to a punching bag stand related site now is there? Google knows this, because it is its primary function to group RELEVANT pages together, therefor giving much more "power" to relevant backlinks.

The purpose of the thread was to figure out, if anyone knows or has been involved in Google penalizing him ( drop in serps... ) for adding irrelevant backlinks.

Sincerely, Buyseech

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Jacob Martus

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Hi guys,

by BAD backlink I meant IRRELEVANT linking.

If I have a site about dishwashers, there is no point in linking it to a punching bag stand related site now is there? Google knows this, because it is its primary function to group RELEVANT pages together, therefor giving much more "power" to relevant backlinks.

The purpose of the thread was to figure out, if anyone knows or has been involved in Google penalizing him ( drop in serps... ) for adding irrelevant backlinks.

Sincerely, Buyseech

There have been a number of experiments done proving that backlinks from "irrelevant sites" are still very powerful. Think about it. Will you take a backlink from the New York Times to your punching bag stand site? Of course you will.

Here's a great article from one of my favorite SEO's:
You’re All Wrong!-> Buying Text Links From Offtopic, Irrelevant Sites Can Boost Rankings

Point is, backlinks are just as powerful from off-topic sites as they are from on-topic sites. You're right, that Google is good at grouping relevant pages together. But it would be impossible for them to deem a backlink relevant or not because they cannot think.

For example, if I get a backlink to my backpacking site from a website about trekking, it could be considered irrelevant because there are no backpacking keywords on the site. Yet, trekking and backpacking are very similar, so in human eyes it would be relevant, yet from Google's algorithmic standpoint it would be irrelevant.

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Buyseech

12 years ago

Hi Jacob,

I agree to a certain extent. Google has LSI keywords which you are most likely farmiliar with, so its knows what words ( although not similar in the writing itself ) are related.

I agree it is hard for Google to "batch" the Kws together but it does form a pattern on multiple linkings and usage of the common words in the same text, from its history.

Saying that it doesnt matter if its relevant or not is just being silly, if you ask me. Whats the point then. I could write only BLA BLA BLA 1 gazzilion times and send it to Ezine and voila. ( Ok I know it woulndt be accepted but still ).

All comments appreciated.

Sincerely, Buyseech

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Tom Goodwin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Saying that it doesnt matter if its relevant or not is just being silly, if you ask me. Whats the point then. I could write only BLA BLA BLA 1 gazzilion times and send it to Ezine and voila. ( Ok I know it woulndt be accepted but still ).

I think the problem is that you are thinking Google values relevancy like you would as a human reader. In theory, Google shouldn't value "unnatural" backlinks, but the fact is they very much do give high value to them. Same goes for "irrelevant" backlinks. Google's algo just doesn't work like a lot of you think it should.

If I get a link (with the right anchor text) on a page PR5 page about hamsters, it is going to help ANY of my sites rank, whether that site is about IM, baseball or fly fishing. That is just the way it works in practice. If it didn't work, I wouldn't be selling high PR links from "irrelevant" topics and these links wouldn't be helping my clients rank extremely well. In fact, we have tested having pretty much nonsense text and guess what? It still works great.

Tom

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Jacob Martus

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Hi Jacob,

I agree to a certain extent. Google has LSI keywords which you are most likely farmiliar with, so its knows what words ( although not similar in the writing itself ) are related.

I agree it is hard for Google to "batch" the Kws together but it does form a pattern on multiple linkings and usage of the common words in the same text, from its history.

Saying that it doesnt matter if its relevant or not is just being silly, if you ask me. Whats the point then. I could write only BLA BLA BLA 1 gazzilion times and send it to Ezine and voila. ( Ok I know it woulndt be accepted but still ).

All comments appreciated.

Sincerely, Buyseech

Well, you might think it is being silly, but it works. There are published experiments out there proving it. Here is one:
http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...xperiment.html

The point is, "irrelevant backlinks" work and work very well. You can debate it if you like, but you're not going to convince me or anyone else with any experience.

Go out and try it for yourself. You'll see that it is not silly. It works. Everytime.

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Mr Squeeze

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jacob Martus

For example, if I get a backlink to my backpacking site from a website about trekking, it could be considered irrelevant because there are no backpacking keywords on the site. Yet, trekking and backpacking are very similar, so in human eyes it would be relevant, yet from Google's algorithmic standpoint it would be irrelevant.

Excellent information, never thought of it like that before thankyou.

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Lucid

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

If I have a site about dishwashers, there is no point in linking it to a punching bag stand related site now is there? Google knows this, because it is its primary function to group RELEVANT pages together, therefor giving much more "power" to relevant backlinks.

To me, you basically answered your own question here.

A backlink to me is neither good or bad. Relevant is a better word but I think the way Google looks at it is the link's VALUE. So a link from a punching bag site to one about dishwashers has less value than one from another dishwasher site. It's not just getting a high number of links.

How much more value is debatable. I sometimes play a game called "how would I do this"? If it was me, a lesser relevance link would get 100 times less value. I would want someone to work 100 times more for irrelevant links.

So I agree, there is less point (although not totally no point for the SEO) to link that way. Always best to put your time into quality links which is to say more relevant ones.

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Tom Goodwin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Hi guys,

by BAD backlink I meant IRRELEVANT linking.

If I have a site about dishwashers, there is no point in linking it to a punching bag stand related site now is there? Google knows this, because it is its primary function to group RELEVANT pages together, therefor giving much more "power" to relevant backlinks.

Again, you are applying how you would do a ranking by hand. Don't confuse how you would do a ranking with how Google's algo actually works. They are not the same. Google shouldn't reward a site for having 100% targeted anchor texts (as that would be "unnatural"), yet Google does indeed reward such unnatural linking. I can tell you first hand that this whole irrelevant links lack power BS is false in actual practice. Again, I don't really care if you believe me or not. I"m just telling you of my experiences selling high PR links from irrelevant sites and watching the Google SERP rankings of the linked to sites on completely different subjects. Stop trying to think about how you would set up a ranking ideal in your utopia.

Originally Posted by Buyseech

The purpose of the thread was to figure out, if anyone knows or has been involved in Google penalizing him ( drop in serps... ) for adding irrelevant backlinks.

Not to beat a dead horse, but why would you think Google would penalize for incoming links when you could simply send "bad" links to your competitors? You can control the outgoing links from your site. You can't control incoming links to your site.

Tom

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32paul52

12 years ago

Tom hit the nail on the head- I use links from PR blogs for my clients (irrelevent subjects) - the results speak from themselves - before ranking Number 12 -after Number 4. It was the only work done. If you think about, the web is really a mass of mixed links.

another way to see this if you do a search for "web design" - Any webdesigner, with a few brains, would link every client back to them in the footer of the sites- sites not relevent to webdesign correct?

I rest my case.............

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daviddeschaine 12 years ago

The way I understood the Google, Yahoo model was that any links are good for ranking - More Links More Numbers - :-)
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maddydp

12 years ago

Mass backlinks is good, as they show diversification. Having only high quality backlinks might get your website sandboxed. Just be very very careful.

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Buyseech

12 years ago

Thanks for all your comments guys.

Huh...It seems I have been "decieved" then

Working hard to get relevant content and searching for relevant forums and blog to post was actually not neccessary.

Although noone can quantify anything of course, we will have to use the good old "test it yourself and see" method.

If irrelevant links work just as well, this will be a walk in the park.

I still have a lot of doubt doh

Lets wait and see...

Sincerely, Buyseech

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Jacob Martus

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Thanks for all your comments guys.

Huh...It seems I have been "decieved" then

Working hard to get relevant content and searching for relevant forums and blog to post was actually not neccessary.

Although noone can quantify anything of course, we will have to use the good old "test it yourself and see" method.

If irrelevant links work just as well, this will be a walk in the park.

I still have a lot of doubt doh

Lets wait and see...

Sincerely, Buyseech

I provided you with a link to an experiment proving this. Check it out:

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...xperiment.html

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mayorlan

12 years ago

I was saying ha! When I saw this.Is there a anything like "bad backlinks".I doubt it.A backlink is a backlink because a web page without backlinks to it is like a lighted candle covered with a bucket,nobody would see it light.And also,can anyone knows Google's mind on this and how if one can?

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stellaremar

12 years ago

Irrelevant links are not totally bad backlinks they just have lower value. At least it have value than o backlinks. But I think as time go on and SEs continue improving their also and rankings site, these irrelevant links will decrease and decrease its value.

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Jacob Martus

12 years ago

Originally Posted by stellaremar

Irrelevant links are not totally bad backlinks they just have lower value. At least it have value than o backlinks. But I think as time go on and SEs continue improving their also and rankings site, these irrelevant links will decrease and decrease its value.

Or not. 9 posts! Congrats.

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FranciscoDancon

12 years ago

Irrelevant back linking works to bring rankings. If you want evidence, log into your wordpress blog and go to the comment moderation queue. Notice the hundreds and hundreds of irrelevant spam comment there for porn and viagra. If that tactic didn't work, people wouldn't be using it.

Also, Xrumer is very popular. It wouldn't be popular if it were anything other than effective.

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fanatic123

12 years ago

That depends on how bad the backlink is. If they are poor, then they are still better than not having any backlinks!

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Suka

12 years ago

I have not once written an article about the subject matter of my website. ALL of my articles are written about "dogs" linking to a site about "womens jewelry" LOL

Im number 1 for the anchor text from all those "irrelevant" "bad" links.. :p

A link is a link, the only benefit you get from linking to the same content is if you want people who actually read the article to click through, if you just want the link juice. It does NOT matter..

When i find a dud site, i simply edit the articles pointing to that site, and point them to a different site.. it takes a few weeks to update, but it works just fine

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joetheseo

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Suka

I have not once written an article about the subject matter of my website. ALL of my articles are written about "dogs" linking to a site about "womens jewelry" LOL

Im number 1 for the anchor text from all those "irrelevant" "bad" links.. :p

A link is a link, the only benefit you get from linking to the same content is if you want people who actually read the article to click through, if you just want the link juice. It does NOT matter..

When i find a dud site, i simply edit the articles pointing to that site, and point them to a different site.. it takes a few weeks to update, but it works just fine

Links that contain relevant content are more valuable, but it also depends on the PR of the link. I mean, of course a non-relevant PR3 is going to out weigh a relevant PR0, etc. But If I'm getting article links, I always publish relevant content.

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joetheseo

12 years ago

i'm too lazy to explain, but the short answer is no. :rolleyes:

Of course, "bad backlinks" can mean many things... If you're talking about Adult / porn links... probably not a good idea.

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entrepreneurjay

12 years ago

I would definitely say so if your site is related to Internet marketing and your getting backlinks from Porn sites I am sure that would hurt you more than benefit you.

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4morereferrals

12 years ago

Originally Posted by entrepreneurjay

I would definitely say so if your site is related to Internet marketing and your getting backlinks from Porn sites I am sure that would hurt you more than benefit you.

You can control who you link TO ... not who links TO YOU.

How can a news site be "relevant" to any one "niche" or topic?

Would you take a permalink from this irrelevant page?

DRUDGE REPORT 2011®

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Tom Goodwin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

You can control who you link TO ... not who links TO YOU.

How can a news site be "relevant" to any one "niche" or topic?

Would you take a permalink from this irrelevant page?

DRUDGE REPORT 2011®

It would be painful to decline, but for political reasons no i would not:rolleyes:

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bg-011

12 years ago

Google changed code...
BAD LINKS ARE BAD LINKS, stay away from them

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Tom Goodwin 12 years ago

Originally Posted by bg-011

Google changed code...
BAD LINKS ARE BAD LINKS, stay away from them

OHH NOOOO.. the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

I call BS. I guess I better just send "bad" links to my competitors' sites and i'll be #1 by next week.:rolleyes: Give me an f'in break.
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socialbookmark

12 years ago

I am almost sure that no backlinks is better that bad backlinks. No backlinks doesn't promote your website but it doesn't hurt it too. But bad backlinks doesn't promote it and hurts it too.

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va_mom

12 years ago

Bad links are still links and still counts... Just my opinion :-)

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Rukshan

12 years ago

No Backlinks = Same stage
Bad Backlinks = Negative result
Quality Backlinks = Improvement of Targeted Traffic

That's the formula. Before making any backlinks, Browse the forum and check feedback of that method. At least you can find whether it's a working one or not.

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creativekone

12 years ago

Its no. Bad Backlinks are sill better than not having any Backlinks.

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geegel

12 years ago

Irrelevant linking is just that: irrelevant. Basically, even if they attract traffic it will be the kind that doesn't convert very well. You're better off if you focus on getting fewer but quality links.

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JackPowers

12 years ago

Relevant backlinks are, all else being equal, better than irrellevant backlinks. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

It's just that relevant backlinks are not that much better than irrellevant backlinks. Not enough to justify not getting irrellevant links.

There are other concerns as well. In the long run, the links you get from related sites will probably stay longer and grow in value compared to the cheap links you can get elsewhere.

That being said, my personal opinion is to use everything I possibly can. There's a place for all kinds of methods and linkbuilding in my opinion.

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Tom Goodwin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by geegel

Irrelevant linking is just that: irrelevant. Basically, even if they attract traffic it will be the kind that doesn't convert very well. You're better off if you focus on getting fewer but quality links.

Are we talking about traffic, or backlinks for SEO? If you are talking about SEO, you sir are incorrect.

Originally Posted by JackPowers

Relevant backlinks are, all else being equal, better than irrellevant backlinks. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

I'm still waiting on evidence or indication of this, other than someone just saying "well, that just makes sense.":rolleyes: My linking has indicated to me that this is not true. Of course, one could always define relevancy like Don, so as to make the use of the term irrelevant.

In addition...
whenever you get backlinks, there is either (1) a time cost, (2) $$$ cost, or (3) both a time and a $$$ cost. As a link seller myself, I can certainly attest that links coming from irrelevant sites do in fact help Google SERP ranking a lot. Now, even if we assumed that (1) relevant links were more "powerful" than irrelevant links, and (2) one can ascertain whether a given page was irrelevant or relevant (which I don't think you can), in almost all cases the opportunity cost of going the extra mile to go after "relevant" vs. "irrelevant" links just would not be worth it.

Tom

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John Williamson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Buyseech

Hi there,

I am really curious to hear your oppinion on this subject.

Are totally irelevant backlinks better or worse than 0 backlinks at all.

I am not saying that the page doesnt have any backlinks to start out with.

Example :

Main page has 15 Ezine articles with unique quality content pointing to it. Social bookmarking is done the propper way and there are some forum posts and blog comments from relevant properties.

Lets say 30 quality backlinks.

I am just saying WHAT IF ( I do not intend to stray from my path of relevance backlinking only ) I would link from the other 300 Ezine articles that have no relation whatsoever with the main pages subject?

Lets say I am in #4 on Google for the main keyword targeted in the main page and the top 5 have roughly about the same number of backlinks, except that the top 3 are much older.

Whats your view on this. Will Google be inclined to the high PR link or will it see it as pure spam, due to no relevance nad just slap it .

As I said ( I believe 2 times ) already, I will not use this and would just like to hear your comments.

Sincerely, Buyseech

The simple answer is no. I would think links from adult or illegal sites may hurt you, but that's obvious. But everything I've read from reputable marketers and SEOs says any backlink helps. In my experience backlinks from non-relevant sources are just as valuable as ones from 'relevant' content.

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Are BAD backlinks worse than NO Backlinks?

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