Will SEO's always beat Google?

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Here's a little experiment:

Do a search online for any big-time keyword phrases ('make money online', 'internet marketing', 'SEO software', etc) and jot down the URLs that you see at the top of the SERPs. Run these URLs through any backlink-checking software and what do you see?

You'll see is that most of these sites got most of their links--tens of thousands, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of links--through only a handful of different ways:

  • Profile links
  • Blog commenting
  • Paid links
  • Link farms
  • Article marketing
  • Link wheels
  • Web 2.0 properties
That pretty much covers most of them. For the super big time keywords, you'll see more link farms and paid links.

My question is:

What the heck?

Isn't it laughably easy for Google to weed a lot of these links out? Yes, they're do-follow, but that doesn't mean Google has to actually follow them!

Google has the technological capability to draw a map of the entire world wide web, and you're telling me they can't automatically detect a blog comment? I don't care if it's the most insightful blog comment ever made, blog comments should not count as a "vote"!

My question to all you wise and weathered warriors is...

Will Google ever win in the battle with SEO's? Is there even a battle at all? Or does Google know exactly how to weed out the junk from the rest, but they just choose not to?

What's going on here?

Brandon
#beat #google #seo
  • Profile picture of the author orvn
    Originally Posted by brandonbaker View Post

    Here's a little experiment:

    Do a search online for any big-time keyword phrases ('make money online', 'internet marketing', 'SEO software', etc) and jot down the URLs that you see at the top of the SERPs. Run these URLs through any backlink-checking software and what do you see?

    You'll see is that most of these sites got most of their links--tens of thousands, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of links--through only a handful of different ways:

    • Profile links
    • Blog commenting
    • Paid links
    • Link farms
    • Article marketing
    • Link wheels
    • Web 2.0 properties
    That pretty much covers most of them. For the super big time keywords, you'll see more link farms and paid links.

    My question is:

    What the heck?

    Isn't it laughably easy for Google to weed a lot of these links out? Yes, they're do-follow, but that doesn't mean Google has to actually follow them!

    Google has the technological capability to draw a map of the entire world wide web, and you're telling me they can't automatically detect a blog comment? I don't care if it's the most insightful blog comment ever made, blog comments should not count as a "vote"!

    My question to all you wise and weathered warriors is...

    Will Google ever win in the battle with SEO's? Is there even a battle at all? Or does Google know exactly how to weed out the junk from the rest, but they just choose not to?

    What's going on here?

    Brandon
    These are blackhat SEO's you speak of, for the most part (to be frank, most of them aren't even worthy of the honourable title of 'black hat').

    Google encourages healthy organic (white) SEO, but has pointed out that malicious and spammy (black) SEO is a no-no, something that they may be taking action to re enforce the concept of.

    Personally, my hat gets a little grey from time to time.
    I like my SEO slightly shady
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    • Profile picture of the author brandonbaker
      Originally Posted by orvn View Post

      These are BlueFart SEO's you speak of, for the most part (to be frank, most of them aren't even worthy of the honourable title of 'black hat').

      Google encourages healthy organic (white) SEO, but has pointed out that malicious and spammy (black) SEO is a no-no, something that they may be taking action to re enforce the concept of.

      Personally, my hat gets a little grey from time to time.
      I like my SEO slightly shady
      Call them BlueFart or Black Hat or Greyhat or whatever you wish, but the fact is that as of November 8, 2010, they're dominating the SERPS.

      Hey, don't take my word for it. Run a backlink check for:
      • www . webhostinggeeks . com (#1 for "best web hosting")
      • www . 101waystomakemoney . com (#1 for "make money online")
      • www . freeinternetmarketingcourses . com (#1 for "internet marketing", after Wikipedia)
      The list goes on and on. I know because I've spent the last few weeks doing nonstop research on where the top ranking sites are getting their links from, and the list I gave above pretty much covers, I would say, 75-95% of all the links I saw. These aren't flukes; these are full-out SEO linkbuilding campaigns centered around "forced links."
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      • Profile picture of the author orvn
        lol bl^ckh^t is profanity on this site

        B14ckh47 is back, baby.

        http://www.slightlyshadyseo.com/
        yeahh


        Originally Posted by brandonbaker View Post

        ....or Greyhat or whatever you wish, but the fact is that as of November 8, 2010, they're dominating the SERPS.
        Pffft.
        A greyhat is nothing but a black-hat that uses generic brand laundry detergent.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
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          • Profile picture of the author orvn
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Or a white hat that never does laundry.
            That's the sort of grey hat that can get awfully shady, but never really b|ackhat
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  • Profile picture of the author Jody_W
    Eh, the line is quite fine in many cases between white, grey, and black. If I put up interesting, informative, well-written articles on web 2.0 sites and link back to my main site am I doing a service by spreading information about my topic or am I an evil linkwheel builder?

    From a practical standpoint, as long as the search engines reward this type of activity with good rankings it's going to continue. Who am I to question what works? ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author jack567
      From a practical standpoint, as long as the search engines reward this type of activity with good rankings it's going to continue. Who am I to question what works? ;-)[/QUOTE]
      According to me SEO is winner. There are many methods to promote website. Google makes a specific algorithm for users to give optimize results. In black hat seo more deceptive methods are there to improve rankings. The search engine generally disapprove these types of methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author keliix06
    The easy answer is yes, SEOs will always win. Google will always have to play by a set of rules. Beating the system is only a matter of finding a way around those rules.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    I think you assume a bit too much about the things Google is capable of doing with the data they collect.

    The amount of processing power it takes to simply build an accurate database of the worldwide web is obscene, let alone the data required to compile and execute analytical algorithms to boost and slap backlink structures as they are seen by Google.

    The amount of extra processing power to ban blog comments or forum profiles would be massive and would end up hurting people with honest comments to make and real profiles and signatures in forums.

    I mean, if you are honestly starting a conversation with people in your niche, these are the sort of things you do.

    And I don't care what your opinion of blog commenting is, a link is a link, period, which makes it a vote.

    And it is engaging in conversation with other webmasters when done ethically. Which is what Google wants.

    Google doesn't win because these tactics are unbeatable. Google doesn't have the processing power to tell the difference between white and gray hat...

    For now.
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    • Profile picture of the author brandonbaker
      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

      The amount of extra processing power to ban blog comments or forum profiles would be massive and would end up hurting people with honest comments to make and real profiles and signatures in forums.
      I'm not suggesting that you penalize blog comments and profile links. I'm just suggesting that maybe you treat them all as if they were nofollow. That is, they have no effect. Imagine how much spam would be reduced if Google announced that all blog comment links were treated as nofollow links.

      It would shake things up, for sure, but in the long run, I think it would have a positive effect on the online environment we work in, and it would bring back more accurate results because the SERPs would be filled with pages that earned natural, organic links, and not created those links by forcing them onto other people's pages.

      And hey, I'm not saying that I don't practice these techniques. Of course I do, it seems like you need to in order to survive. But the fact that I am forced to blog comment and profile link just to get my name out there tells me that there's something wrong with this system...

      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

      And I don't care what your opinion of blog commenting is, a link is a link, period, which makes it a vote.
      I completely disagree. There's a reason why Obama couldn't vote for himself 4,000,000 times. But in essence, that's what a lot of the #1 ranking sites are doing. They vote for themselves with blog comments and profile links and forum posts and link farms and all these techniques.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
        Originally Posted by brandonbaker View Post


        It would shake things up, for sure, but in the long run, I think it would have a positive effect on the online environment we work in, and it would bring back more accurate results because the SERPs would be filled with pages that earned natural, organic links, and not created those links by forcing them onto other people's pages.
        I think you are both overestimating the ability of Google's algo (which at this point..with all of the tweaking...i'm not sure if any one person truly knows everything that goes on with it), and overstating the uniqueness of "earned natural, organic links." So long as backlinks help a site to rank in the search engines, there will be a way to artificially create them. Whether that is with setting up more massive blog networks that you control, renting out/buying high PR links, using article marketing bots like Article Marketing Robot, using something like Unique Article Wizard, setting up 3way link exchanges, etc. There would be nothing left that you couldn't control and/or artificially get your hands on.

        No matter how you slice you, I could mimic what you think "earned natural, organic links" should look like. It might not be as easy or as plentiful as it might be now with blog commenting or building profiles, but I can tell you that I could still artificially build them in such a way as to artificially boost my sites rankings.

        Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Callen
    In a perfect world Google would only have to worry about actual natural links. But as long as organic rankings are profitable SEO will be cutting edge. Good ol' cat & mouse game. It won't end. We have been beating search engines for years now!

    Very good point about links simply not being indexed in the first place. This seems to be happening a lot more than it used to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Goodwin
    No matter what changes Google or any other Search Engine makes, there will always be a way to "game" the respective search engine. As they evolve, we evolve.

    Google has the technological capability to draw a map of the entire world wide web, and you're telling me they can't automatically detect a blog comment? I don't care if it's the most insightful blog comment ever made, blog comments should not count as a "vote"!
    One thing to keep in mind, and Matt Cutts has even said as much, it doesn't matter at the end of the day if people are gaming the system with artificial link building or what not, so long as the results give the searcher relevant and worth results. Why should Google care if 5 of the top 10 sites for "make money online" use paid links (just making this up, btw), if those results tend to be at at least as good as the alternatives? The answer is: Google doesn't.

    Now, if you are talking about micro niche product type keywords where exact keyword domains are to be had, then yea, the typical search results might not be ideal, with very thin content sites, relying on what Google might deem some spammy type non-natural linkbuilding.

    But, if you look at the more lucrative, and more searched for, keywords, I think you'll find that the top results in Google tend to be better than the other search engines, and that even applies to sites that may artificially boost up their linkbuilding.

    Why should Google really give a dang if the results still help the visitor experience? Again, they shouldn't.

    Now, will some truly crap sites slip through from time to time for some of the bigger keywords? Sure. But, I don't think that would necessarily be any more than if the algo was structured any different.

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde
    Google is Broken.

    Fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author harrisonsmith
    Its very impossible to beat google because google is very vast search engine and their key to success is that they are doing great research work to remain king in the market. SEO has its own importance and SEO helps in promoting websites to get a high rank in google.
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