PROOF: These 100 Words Will Make You More Money Than Any Others...

13 years ago

Ah, I hate to disagree with ya. But,

I read it cos it was by you petal. :p

Totally agree when it comes to articles, press releases, etc. Forums are another matter. I'm much more likely to read threads where I recognise the name of the poster than whether or not the title grabs me.

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kenny44 13 years ago

haha nicely done ;-)
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wanna-succeed

13 years ago

Not to be a naysayer but that's only one side of the coin...:rolleyes:
For these purposes you have made your point but doing what you did for advertising purposes is very close to deception...Not to mention that a title like that pretty much demands perfection on your end (whatever it is you are marketing through that fancy title), and if it is anything less than perfect, you get blasted with criticism and lose the crowd...

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TimG

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wanna-succeed

Not to be a naysayer but that's only one side of the coin...:rolleyes:
For these purposes you have made your point but doing what you did for advertising purposes is very close to deception...Not to mention that a title like that pretty much demands perfection on your end (whatever it is you are marketing through that fancy title), and if it is anything less than perfect, you get blasted with criticism and lose the crowd...

Actually his post to include the title was 100 words which is what he mentioned in the title so he did live up to his end of the bargain.

Respectfully,
Tim

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AnitaCross

13 years ago

Originally Posted by wanna-succeed

Not to be a naysayer but that's only one side of the coin...:rolleyes:
For these purposes you have made your point but doing what you did for advertising purposes is very close to deception...Not to mention that a title like that pretty much demands perfection on your end (whatever it is you are marketing through that fancy title), and if it is anything less than perfect, you get blasted with criticism and lose the crowd...

Part of crafting a great headline is targeting your audience. This headline targeted people looking for information that will help them be more successful online. The information is freely presented, and in such a way as to be memorable so that the lesson isn't soon forgotten.

I see no deception here, borderline or otherwise, just a clever turn of words that got my attention, then was backed up with solid advice.

Respectfully,
-Anita

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sanssecret

Ah, I hate to disagree with ya. But,

I read it cos it was by you petal. :p

Totally agree when it comes to articles, press releases, etc. Forums are another matter. I'm much more likely to read threads where I recognise the name of the poster than whether or not the title grabs me.

Ah maybe...

But you and I have a relationship with one another...

And a stranger won't be able to rely on my name to make a good decision about whether to read or not.... The only thing they will have to help them to make a decision is the Headline.

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Alfred Shelver 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sanssecret

Ah, I hate to disagree with ya. But,

I read it cos it was by you petal. :p

Great point you nearly got me behind your point of view because it was so compelling.

Then I thought about one part of your reply "Totally agree when it comes to articles, press releases, etc"

To agree that headlines are the most imprtant in any other forms online writing except forums made me think twice.

Why everything else? not forums, and then it hit me, for you headings may not make you read as much as people posting them do, but that is you who has taken time to read and know the people on the forum.

The Majority of people on this forum are visitors and never post, so although I feel the same way you do I think both you and I are wrong, and Bill has made his point once again.
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TimG

13 years ago

Bill,
Bravo sir..................you got me hooked and I clicked on the thread wthout even checking to see who posted it.

Nice reminder for me on the importance of headlines before I try and get a few hours sleep in order to recharge the batteries before my morning writing sessions.

Respectfully,
Tim

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi tpw,

I am going to be a naysayer.

If you're going to make such a bold claim, then you're going to get disagreement if others feel that you are mistaken.

This is part of the problem with placing such emphasis on attention-grabbing headlines - if you use them, the worst thing that you can do is fail to deliver on the promises contained within them.

The headline you have used talks about making 'more money than any others', but then within the OP you talk about using them on forums. At the end of the OP it switches to talking about getting people 'to read your marketing materials.'

So I can presume we're talking generally, rather than just about forums?

I would suggest that even if your headlines were totally rubbish, or even blank, what matters most is the content that is headed by by the headline.

Why?

Two reasons.

1) people don't normally buy due to a headline - the content is the thing that makes the money - attention doesn't make money on it's own. The content has the space to put in all of the different copy that gets the sale (or the desired action.)

2) the absolute key to making money on the internet is to get other people to pass on your brand name/url/marketing message to others, as a recommendation. The headline will rarely do this, the content will nearly always do this.

Here is some 'proof' -

problogger - how did he get so popular, when much of his work is not that different to the work of others?

Was it the headlines?

His site title is - 'Blog tips to help you make money blogging'

Let's look at the headlines in his 'popular at problogger' widget on his home page -

* My Journey to Blogging Celebrity
* How to Create More Content for Your Blog and Kill 2 Birds....
* How To Create Link Bait Content
* Why Writing Every Day Isn’t Enough
* 5 Tips to Grow Your Twitter Presence
* How to Blog: Blogging Tips for Beginners
* Take Your Blog to the Next Level with Blogging Success Summit 2011

Let's look at Steve Pavlina -

Blog title - 'Personal development for smart people'

Top post headlines -

10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job
How to Discover Your Life Purpose in About 20 Minutes
How to Make Money From Your Blog
How to Become an Early Riser
Self-Discipline
The Law of Attraction
How to Cook Brown Rice
How to Get Up Right Away When Your Alarm Goes Off
30 Days to Success
How to Be a Man
10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion
How to Make Lots of Money During a Recession
Cause-Effect vs. Intention-Manifestation
How to Decide When to End a Long-term Relationship

Admittedly, some of Steve's headlines/titles are a little more powerful in terms of creating interest.

But still, I contend that the reason these two are so successful is because of their content, not their headlines and it's chiefly because other people end up passing on the sites to others as a recommendation, via word of mouth - which again, is due to the content, not the headlines.

I'm only disagreeing with you because I strongly believe in what I am saying. You've created an interesting discussion though.

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Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

I would suggest that even if your headlines were totally rubbish, or even blank, what matters most is the content that is headed by by the headline.

Hi Roger,

You do realize that goes against what every famous copywriter (that I've ever read) says, don't you? You can have the greatest copy in the world, but if your headline doesn't pull people into the copy, the copy means nothing.

Chicken or egg?

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Hi Roger,

You do realize that goes against what every famous copywriter (that I've ever read) says, don't you? You can have the greatest copy in the world, but if your headline doesn't pull people into the copy, the copy means nothing.

Chicken or egg?

Almost every famous copywriter I've ever read comes from the world of print, which is VASTLY different from the space we all operate in. It's a world where the headline is your only shot at that reader. We don't have that constraint, and yet we're also competing in a way those same writers never had to.

I mean, consider that most people who fancy themselves internet marketers would attempt to use 100 year old headline writing advice to create good email subject lines. I can't think of a worse way to squander the beneficial context of sending people email in the first place than to send them old-school direct marketing headlines.

They were a means to an end when printed ads were THE technology to get prospects' attention. Now, we have a different toolset and a different environment to contend with. But that's just my $0.02 as a working writer.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Originally Posted by ExRat

I would suggest that even if your headlines were totally rubbish, or even blank, what matters most is the content that is headed by by the headline.

Hi Roger,

You do realize that goes against what every famous copywriter (that I've ever read) says, don't you? You can have the greatest copy in the world, but if your headline doesn't pull people into the copy, the copy means nothing.

Chicken or egg?

Roger is correct, but Dennis made my point for me.

You can have the best copy on the planet, but if no one reads it, it does not matter -- your copy might as well read, "If I quack like a duck, I must be a duck."

The headline serves to gain the attention of a prospect and pull that persion into your copy, and nothing more.

Then your copy and your call-to-action must pull their load, so that you will get the chance to deliver a prospect to your sales pages.

In order to have a chance to present your sales copy, forum post, article, press release, or other marketing message to your prospect, you must first get their attention so that they can read your message.

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

In order to have a chance to present your sales copy, forum post, article, press release, or other marketing message to your prospect, you must first get their attention so that they can read your message.

I agree with this statement, but I disagree that having a great headline is the only, or even the best way to do it. The "best" sales letters I've ever written are the ones that no one ever reads because they rush the shopping cart and the product sells out in less time that the letter would have taken to even be read at human speed.

Same with headlines - if I can get you to skip it and get right to the meat no matter what the headline says, I'd much prefer to do that. The way to do that is by having great content - which you CAN get people to read, even WITHOUT a snappy headline.

Like this post, for example. I bet a number of people reading this might be more inclined to open a thread I may start later - and even if the headline wasn't snappy, if they recognize the name, it won't matter.

Headlines do serve a purpose, but they're not something to get hung up on. If you need one and can't think of one, something like "Hey you - yes you - read this right now (or else)" will generally work fine. As long as you give them something for the attention they pay.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

I agree with this statement, but I disagree that having a great headline is the only, or even the best way to do it. The "best" sales letters I've ever written are the ones that no one ever reads because they rush the shopping cart and the product sells out in less time that the letter would have taken to even be read at human speed.

Same with headlines - if I can get you to skip it and get right to the meat no matter what the headline says, I'd much prefer to do that. The way to do that is by having great content - which you CAN get people to read, even WITHOUT a snappy headline.

Like this post, for example. I bet a number of people reading this might be more inclined to open a thread I may start later - and even if the headline wasn't snappy, if they recognize the name, it won't matter.

Headlines do serve a purpose, but they're not something to get hung up on. If you need one and can't think of one, something like "Hey you - yes you - read this right now (or else)" will generally work fine. As long as you give them something for the attention they pay.

Your explanation has shown a distinction in nuance that I did not fully identify in my original post.

When I wrote this, I was in the mindset of people when they see your email subject, forum thread subject via link, article title via link, or press release title via link. In these cases, people are making the decision on whether to OPEN based on the only information they have available, which is the Headline that is hyperlinked.

Once they have landed on your sales page, I agree with you that the headline is no longer as important as it had been previously.

I would like to ferret out one more thing you said:

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

The "best" sales letters I've ever written are the ones that no one ever reads because they rush the shopping cart and the product sells out in less time that the letter would have taken to even be read at human speed.

How is it that people know that they want to skip the sales letter and go directly to the Buy Button?

I am willing to venture that those sales pages did not contain the simple message, "My name is Colin Theriot. Buy my product."

Right?

So what gave people the confidence that they could skip your sales copy and go directly to the Buy Button?

Did you not pre-sell the offer at another location with a Headline in a link to get them to open the pre-sell offer, and didn't the prospect read that pre-sell offer to decide that they wanted to buy what you were selling so much that they were willing to bypass the sales copy to get to your purchase form?

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sanssecret

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

Like this post, for example. I bet a number of people reading this might be more inclined to open a thread I may start later - and even if the headline wasn't snappy, if they recognize the name, it won't matter.

Headlines do serve a purpose, but they're not something to get hung up on. If you need one and can't think of one, something like "Hey you - yes you - read this right now (or else)" will generally work fine. As long as you give them something for the attention they pay.

Colin, the point about someone opening a thread of yours because of recognising your name is the point I was trying to make about the headline not being that important for forums. In other mediums, where your name is not so well known, then you have to have some way of getting them to reading your content. That might not be the headline, you might be able to get other folks to send people your way.

"Hey you - yes..." - I actually like this. Off into my swipe file it goes. :p

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AnitaCross

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

The "best" sales letters I've ever written are the ones that no one ever reads because they rush the shopping cart and the product sells out in less time that the letter would have taken to even be read at human speed.

I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but that statement makes no sense to me... If the customers aren't reading the copy, then the products are selling themselves and the sales letters are irrelevant. You could have put any of those products on a page, along with a buy now button and been done with it!

Believe me, I know... I once sold several units of silk plant cleaner on a site that was still under construction. The description was "Yada, yada".

But let's be honest here. Products like that are, relatively speaking, few and far between.

Now, it's possible for the search engines to bring traffic to your pages based on the content, and not on the headline. And it is also possible that once there, many visitors will read that content regardless of the headline.

But what about the bounce rates? And how can you be so sure that a well crafted headline wouldn't improve the stickiness of any given page?

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

... if I can get you to skip it and get right to the meat no matter what the headline says, I'd much prefer to do that.

It actually looks like you don't like writing headlines, and therefore discount the advice of the seasoned professionals. And that's fine, if it works for you.

But I'm certain there are many people trying to get started with their own business for whom Bill's post is sage advice.

Respectfully,
-Anita

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ExRat

13 years ago

Hi,

The context of my response was framed around the overall claim made in thread -

These 100 Words Will Make You More Money Than Any Others...

In short, the 100 words are saying -

the most important part of any forum thread (article, press release, advertisement, or website) is the Headline

This is what I disagreed with. I explained why above, but I will elaborate, using further responses to the thread to do so.

pacesetter007 -

To be successful in copy writing, the headline is as important as the product itself.

....Just ask the journalists that publish newspaper......

Firstly, comparing journalism and information marketing is like comparing apples and oranges because with MSM journalism for example, the headline IS the product. I could point you to many British MSM sources where you get virtually all of the information you need FROM the headline and the article itself simply elaborates and shows where the hype in the headline is.

Try it. Go to an online newspaper and scan the headlines. Then read the articles. You don't need to read the articles to get the picture, just the headlines.

Selling information products is totally different.

Secondly, you mention the headline and the product. You missed out the content. Whether we're talking about a single salesletter or if we're talking about 100 excellently constructed articles on a blog that ARE the salesletter for the product(s), you can't leave the content out of the mix. The headline MIGHT be as important as the product, but it is the content that matters the most. Why? I explained above - because that's what makes people get to see the product - that's what makes them buy. The (invisible - hidden behind the buy button) product doesn't get them to buy and the headline doesn't get them to buy.

The headline (sometimes, but not always - see below) is what leads them to the content, which then leads them to the poduct.

You simply can't ignore the content and only talk about headlines and products when you're discussing what will make you more money than anything else.

AnitaCross,

Part of crafting a great headline is targeting your audience. This headline targeted people looking for information that will help them be more successful online. The information is freely presented, and in such a way as to be memorable so that the lesson isn't soon forgotten.

I see no deception here, borderline or otherwise, just a clever turn of words that got my attention, then was backed up with solid advice.

The 'deception' (I didn't call it that) is that in my opinion the headline isn't the thing that makes more money than anything else.

You're all looking at this with one track minds as if the headline is the ONLY point of entry. In terms of forums exclusively (where the headline IS important) sanssecret explained above why it isn't the only 'point of entry'.

Dennis,

You do realize that goes against what every famous copywriter (that I've ever read) says, don't you? You can have the greatest copy in the world, but if your headline doesn't pull people into the copy, the copy means nothing.

Chicken or egg?

I hadn't thought about it in terms of the advice of every famous copywriter, but frankly I don't care what they say.

Again, you're viewing this as if a headline is the only point of entry - the only thing that EVER draws people in. If we're talking about the thing that 'makes you more money than anything else', then if those copywriters were to say that, they are wrong - dead wrong.

Paulie888,

Both the copy/content and title are equally important, and both have their respective roles to play in making your overall marketing message effective.

They cannot exist in a vacuum without one another, and they function synergistically in conveying a marketing message that captures your prospects' initial attention, sustains it and ultimately makes them take your desired course of action.

Conversely, I believe that they CAN exist in a vacuum without one another. As I said above, you don't even need a headline.

To summarise, let me recap what I said above, in response to the points I have quoted and refuted above.

Here's what I said in relation to Pavlina and problogger -

I contend that the reason these two are so successful is because of their content, not their headlines and it's chiefly because other people end up passing on the sites to others as a recommendation, via word of mouth - which again, is due to the content, not the headlines.

If someone wanted to send someone else to one of the articles, in 100% of cases do they ALWAYS use the headline in order to do this?

For example, on Steve Pavlina's blog one of his popular articles is titled '10 tips for college students.'

Is it the headline '10 tips for college students' that makes him the most money? Is the content irrelevant?

No.

Is it inconceivable that when someone passes this article to someone else (which I am suggesting is THE thing that makes the most money) they use a part of the content or an alternative description of the content in order to pass it on?

They could say, 'Hey! Read this great article that's all about getting the best out of being a student'.

That only uses one word from the headline.

Or take this article by problogger - 'Why writing every day isn't enough.'

'Hey! Read this article all about why you should write for others.'

See what I did there? I linked to the articles and mentioned that they were great posts (yes, I chose to use the headline as anchor text but I didn't HAVE to - I could have done this instead - great article about college and great article about writing for others.)

Getting people to do THAT (spreading the word, virally) is the single thing that will make you more money than anything else (as long as you monetise your writing somehow) even without the article having any headline at all. Of course, someone could mention that having a well constructed and smoothly-flowing back-end is important in terms of monetisation - but you make the time to perfect that by putting your traffic generation on auto-pilot by utilising the viral power of other people's recommendations. If you focus purely on headlines and consequently have poor content, you'll be busy forever driving traffic.

Most of you have probably heard of Pavlina and Rowse at problogger and most of you probably know what subjects they write about.

Why is that? Is it because of the quality of their headlines?

If you had said headlines are 'very important', I would agree. When you say that they are THE most important thing in terms of making money, then I disagree and I will also point out the irony in how you used the headline here to make a point and called it 'proof' - when in fact, using a headline that makes great claims which leads to content that doesn't deliver actually does the opposite of making money and makes future headlines less responsive.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Roger is correct, but Dennis made my point for me.

You can have the best copy on the planet, but if no one reads it, it does not matter -- your copy might as well read, "If I quack like a duck, I must be a duck."

The headline serves to gain the attention of a prospect and pull that persion into your copy, and nothing more.

Then your copy and your call-to-action must pull their load, so that you will get the chance to deliver a prospect to your sales pages.

In order to have a chance to present your sales copy, forum post, article, press release, or other marketing message to your prospect, you must first get their attention so that they can read your message.

Great explanation, Bill. There's no denying that your copy and content have to both solid and congruent with your title, but it'll be utterly wasted if your title is not compelling or catchy enough to make people want to at least have a look at what's inside.

Both the copy/content and title are equally important, and both have their respective roles to play in making your overall marketing message effective.

They cannot exist in a vacuum without one another, and they function synergistically in conveying a marketing message that captures your prospects' initial attention, sustains it and ultimately makes them take your desired course of action.

Saying that one is more important than the other doesn't make any sense at all, because at the end of the day if one of them is lacking, your whole marketing message falls apart and it will result in overall failure.

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tpw

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

Both the copy/content and title are equally important, and both have their respective roles to play in making your overall marketing message effective.

They cannot exist in a vacuum without one another, and they function synergistically in conveying a marketing message that captures your prospects' initial attention, sustains it and ultimately makes them take your desired course of action.

Saying that one is more important than the other doesn't make any sense at all, because at the end of the day if one of them is lacking, your whole marketing message falls apart and it will result in overall failure.

That there my friend is also a good explanation.

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sanssecret

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Ah maybe...

But you and I have a relationship with one another...

And a stranger won't be able to rely on my name to make a good decision about whether to read or not.... The only thing they will have to help them to make a decision is the Headline.

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

Great point you nearly got me behind your point of view because it was so compelling.

Then I thought about one part of your reply "Totally agree when it comes to articles, press releases, etc"

To agree that headlines are the most imprtant in any other forms online writing except forums made me thinbk twice.

Why everything else? not forums, and then it hit me, for you headings may not make you read as much as people posting them do, but that is you who has taken time to read and know the people on the forum.

The Majority of people on this forum are visitors and never post, so although I feel the same way you do I think both you and I are wrong, and Bill has made his point once again.

Yes, the majority of folks here may not post, and for them Bill's name wont' mean diddly squat. But for me it does. And it will for a lot of other folks here. So it's unfair that we don't get to make more money from those 100 words!

:p

Plus, not all forums are as big as this one. Imagine you're participating in a very small, tightly knit forum, where the majority of the members are actively participating. Your name will hold even more weight if you're someone who has proven yourself to provide value to the members with previous postings.

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King Shiloh

Banned 13 years ago

Honestly, I read it because I wanted to know what Bill Platt has up his sleeves this time.

Really, when I saw the thread title and saw the name under it, tpw, I became curious.

Curiosity sells. If you can make people curious, you can sell anything to them before they find out what's going on.

Having said this, a lawyer told one of his clients that only fools doubt proofs. The word "proof" really caught my attention.

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paulie888

13 years ago

Great title selection, Bill, and you have certainly proved your point. With forums, articles and press releases (even blog post titles), a title can definitely make or break you. Using mundane and lackadaisical titles will most assuredly hurt your click/open rates.

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Devid Farah

13 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

If you want people to read your marketing messages, invest the time and effort necessary to Create a Headline That Gets People to Read Your Marketing Materials.

Perfectly agreed.

When it comes to internet marketing success few things are as important as having a great headline...

Personally,I've seen marketing response rates improved 1500% just with a headline change! And it's true.

To ensure that your product or service gets the best response possible from prospects you MUST make sure that your headlines are snappy, snazzy & interesting!

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pacesetter007

13 years ago

Can we over emphasis the issue of good headline writing? NEVER! Bill has proven that again and again and again! To be successful in copy writing, the headline is as important as the product itself.

....Just ask the journalists that publish newspaper......

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Colin Theriot

13 years ago

Headlines shmeadlines. They're important, but they only exist for one purpose, to get the reader to read the introduction. Period. Like ExRat said, the best headline in the world is squandered if what comes after that doesn't rise to the same high level.

And in my own experience, good ones aren't particularly difficult to write when you know what to look for. Which is not "how to write a good headline" - rather, you need to look at all the other ones they can see, and make yours stand out.

If we're talking email subject lines, know what your target user's inbox looks like, so you know how to stand out from what they normally see. If you're talking about a forum, you have to see what people post and respond to to know what will work.

But always remember that initial point - the headline is a way to get people to PAY attention. And since they've PAID something of HUGE value (attention = time and they're never getting what they spent on you back) you better deliver something that is WORTH what they paid.

Really, it's the same old adage about underpromising and overdelivering. Don't spend all the time and energy on the headline, but DO spend the exact right amount.

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King Shiloh

Banned 13 years ago

Yes, headline can attract you to a product.

For example, I have entered a lot of commercial buses and paid my transport fare with excitement because I saw the outside of the vehicle to be very attractive though the engine and other internal parts might be crap.

Headline is very powerful in copywriting because it's the first thing a potential buyer comes in contact with.

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Alfred Shelver

13 years ago

I am confused or have learned very little in my time online, but why is this thread in the PPC, Adwords section am I missing something?

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Devid Farah 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

I am confused or have learned very little in my time online, but why is this thread in the PPC, Adwords section am I missing something?

I was thinking the same thing...
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- paulgl 13 years ago
  
  Proves that headlines get clicks, yes, but do they get sales?
  
  Proves that name recognition is as important, maybe even more
  important when it comes to sales.
  
  I for one do not like overblown, hyped, misleading headlines.
  
  Paul
  
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Dan C. Rinnert 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sanssecret

Ah, I hate to disagree with ya. But,

I read it cos it was by you petal. :p

His user ID is so small, how could you even see it beneath that big headline?

Originally Posted by Cathy Shelver

I am confused or have learned very little in my time online, but why is this thread in the PPC, Adwords section am I missing something?

Shhh. Never question the infinite wisdom of the mods.
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iresh

13 years ago

okay some time using the headings with mentioned attribute s may help. but as my experience people are really moving away from the marketing techniques mentioned above.. so better to stick to relevant customer base and provide quality suff

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