Had to get a refund from Market Samurai based on the (SEOTC or SEOUC) what should I purchase now?

13 years ago

Are you sure they're not working, have you contacted them?

They've had some problems recently, it works fine for me. I'm on it now. Have you done the updates?

I've had it since word go and I've not seen SEOURL before, at least I've never seen or needed it, if it exists?

Also SEOTC, do you mean SEOC or SEOT? They're different (traffic and competition)

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Are you sure they're not working, have you contacted them?

They've had some problems recently, it works fine for me.

I'bve had it since word go and I've not seen SEOURL before. Also SEOTC, do you mean SEOC or SEOT? They're different (traffic and competition)

Hi

Yes the SEOC or SEOT are not working for myself and roughly 20 other WF members from a different thread, I do not need to speak with them because I have a refund now, if you look at the MS blog they explain themselfs that it's not working any longer.

Lee

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Hi

Yes the SEOC or SEOT are not working for myself and roughly 20 other WF members from a different thread, I do not need to speak with them because I have a refund now, if you look at the MS blog they explain themselfs that it's not working any longer.

Lee

That is really bizarre. I just read what you wrote and tested it and mine works. What do they say? That it returns no results or that the results are wrong?

Do you have a link to that blog post?

I'm interested because without it I don't see how it can continue to pull any data at all. Do they plan to fix it or is it permanent?

Where's this thread you've been on if you don't mind?

Sorry for all the questions but this doesn't make much sense to me.

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

That is really bizarre. I just read what you wrote and tested it and mine works. What do they say? That it returns no results or that the results are wrong?

Do you have a link to that blog post?

I'm interested because without it I don't see how it can continue to pull any data at all. Do they plan to fix it or is it permanent.

News to me, too, since I haven't really used it for a few weeks.

But I found the post, here.

It's not such a huge problem for me personally, though, since I don't really pay much attention to SEOC anyway (I'm not interested in amount of competition - only the strength of competition). And SEOT was only an estimation of how much you'd receive if you were ranked in position one, anyway? I've only ever looked at the number of searches, not the SEOT estimation.

EDIT: Just realised it's not SEOT or SEOC data that's been removed (so far as I can see?) but SEOTC and SEOUC. Either way, for me personally, most of this data is of little consequence.

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BigNorm

13 years ago

Not to sure which setting those are as I only concentrate on SEOT, PBR, SEOC and SEOV and have not had any issues finding profitable niches. Maybe you should have waited a little while before asking for your money to give it a good run. There are a ton of threads on here where people disclose how they use MS to find niches.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Guys

Check out this thread and you will get a better understanding as to whats not working> http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...e-useless.html

The bad news. Unfortunately, due to new rate-limiting that Google are performing, it’s no longer possible to successfully generate SEOTC or SEOUC data. When Market Samurai tries to generate this data it is quickly issued with a CAPTCHA.

Source
MS blog here > http://www.noblesamurai.com/blog/

Lee

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Guys

Check out this thread and you will get a better understanding as to whats not working> http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...e-useless.html

The bad news. Unfortunately, due to new rate-limiting that Google are performing, it's no longer possible to successfully generate SEOTC or SEOUC data. When Market Samurai tries to generate this data it is quickly issued with a CAPTCHA.

Source
MS blog here > Noble Samurai

Lee

Wait a second, this is different. SEOT AND SEOC are not the in title or in URL that's being discussed. Also if google have prevented it then all other software that pull data from Google (ie most of them) will have the same problem.

Beside it's not hard to see if the competition has the keyword in the URL or title.

That thread was a bunch of people commenting on something they don't seem to know a lot about. SEOC and SEOT works fine.

Also the less people using it, the less the servers are slammed. No link in that thread to any blog post either. This makes me dubious because I'm getting the in title and in url on mine? I am using it now.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

So what is SEOTC and SEOUC? Because everything I'm using is working fine?

OP, I've no idea what else you can use. Wordtracker, Microniche finder, Traffic travis, googles keyword tool. Your choice.

Mike - Exactly, I've been using this for years and I've never even seen that stuff. The good thing is a bunch of people are leaving, for no good reason and freeing up the servers for the rest of us!

Happy days.

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

So what is SEOTC and SEOUC? Because everything I'm using is working fine?

Mostly just useless, superfluous data that doesn't really give you any true indication as to your odds of ranking for a particular keyword phrase at all, and that I assume was only available in the first place for the sake of "padding out" the keyword research module, making Market Samurai appear more impressive and complex, and satisfying people's redundant curiosity.

Lee789: On the basis of the above, you might as well have just stuck with Market Samurai. The SEO Competition module is still the best around (in my opinion), and the absence of these two bits of data from the Keyword Research module is no great loss; as I say, they don't really give you any indication at all of your potential to rank for a particular keyword phrase. Only research into the strength (not the amount) of competition does that.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

Mostly just useless, superfluous data that doesn't really give you any true indication as to your odds of ranking for a particular keyword phrase at all, and that I assume was only available in the first place for the sake of "padding out" the keyword research module, making Market Samurai appear more impressive and complex, and satisfying people's redundant curiosity.

Lee789: On the basis of the above, you might as well have just stuck with Market Samurai. The SEO Competition module is still the best around (in my opinion), and the absence of these two bits of data from the Keyword Research module is no great loss; as I say, they don't really give you any indication at all of your potential to rank for a particular keyword phrase. Only research into the strength (not the amount) of competition does that.

Hi

To be honest it was pretty tricky tying to use an application following videos which were out dated, because the settings on the videos were different to the ones on the latest MS, hence why I was in such a pickle yesterday after reading both the WF thread and the MS blog itself.

To sum up I had out dated videos to follow using the updated MS, then the thread with members suggesting that the missing features were a must, and the blog which was slightly daunting to read, so to be honest now I am even more stuck and lost than I was yesterday.

Lee

Thanks
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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Hi

To be honest it was pretty tricky tying to use an application following videos which were out dated, because the settings on the videos were different to the ones on the latest MS, hence why I was in such a pickle yesterday after reading both the WF thread and the MS blog itself.

To sum up I had out dated videos to follow using the updated MS, then the thread with members suggesting that the missing features were a must, and the blog which was slightly daunting to read, so to be honest now I am even more stuck and lost than I was yesterday.

Lee

Lee,

Don't worry chap, lesson learned and all that. You can always try it again.

There are other things you can use and those video's are not so bad. If you did get it again I'd be happy to get on a screen share thing with you and show you how I find niches and analyse the competition.

None of the keyword research softwares are perfect anyway. I tend to use MS a bit of Google's tool and Wordtracker then come to an educated decision.

Either way, don't be disheartened but when in threads like that, with people that are just commenting for the sake of it (believe me, everyone saying it's useless now, hasn't got a clue what they're talking about) it's best to do some background checking. You could have got a refund at anytime and like I said, there are other tools out there.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Lee,

Don't worry chap, lesson learned and all that. You can always try it again.

There are other things you can use and those video's are not so bad. If you did get it again I'd be happy to get on a screen share thing with you and show you how I find niches and analyse the competition.

None of the keyword research softwares are perfect anyway. I tend to use MS a bit of Google's tool and Wordtracker then come to an educated decision.

Either way, don't be disheartened but when in threads like that, with people that are just commenting for the sake of it (believe me, everyone saying it's useless now, hasn't got a clue what they're talking about) it's best to do some background checking. You could have got a refund at anytime and like I said, there are other tools out there.

Thanks mate I will more than likely purchase it again and in the future I shall not jump the gun, which is one of my issues in life sometimes lol, I just read your thread by the way and left a comment of how it made me feel, you have been through so much and still offer to help me.

To that all I can say is wow you really are a great guy, I will let you know when I get everything sorted again, would be awesome to grab some ideas from you over Skype.

Lee

Thanks

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Richard Van

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Not sure what your talking about now to be honest we have added links to the MS blog, you can view them above also I am sorry about adding the wrong names I only got it two days ago, the point is that it's not working the way it should be etc..

The question is are you going to sit there going through 700 odd keywords to check up on information eachtime, I know I wont be because it takes to much time to be honest.

Also you mention that theres no problem, then why did they give me the refund saying sorry that it's not working. Thanks for the suggestions by the way I shall check them out now

Lee

Lee, MS has a huge amount of functions. Everything I use it for, to find niches and take a look at the competition, is working fine. I've never even heard of the SEOTC or SEOUC, no idea what it is. I've had this since it first came out when only the keyword research module worked.

Sorry Lee, but like all the other naysayers in that thread, they're looking at 2 tiny bits of MS, that anyone who uses it properly don't look at anyway. I've found and successfully have over 50 niche sites, most from MS data and I don't even know what those two irrelevant bits are.

Looking at that thread, I don't think anyone in there did either. I think you jumped ship way to early but in all fairness, reading the comments in that thread with people saying "oh it's so useless now" when clearly it isn't, I don't blame you.

Trust me though, I'm using it now and everything I need to get results is working fine. Think about it, 2 irrelevant bits of info have been removed from one section which still has 13 additional bits of info. Thats just the keyword reserch module. There are also 8 other modules to use. It's like having a tin of hundreds and thousands (you know those things you put on cakes) taking two out and saying it's not a full tin anymore.

EDIT. Reading through that MS forum post, it's only temorary anyway, they're looking at Bing and other options to fix it. Even if you did use that data all the time, it'll be fixed anyway.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Wait a second, this is different. SEOT AND SEOC are not the in title or in URL that's being discussed. Also if google have prevented it then all other software that pull data from Google (ie most of them) will have the same problem.

Beside it's not hard to see if the competition has the keyword in the URL or title.

That thread was a bunch of people commenting on something they don't seem to know a lot about. SEOC and SEOT works fine.

Also the less people using it, the less the servers are slammed. No link in that thread to any blog post either. This makes me dubious because I'm getting the in title and in url on mine? I am using it now.

Not sure what your talking about now to be honest we have added links to the MS blog, you can view them above with the information about whats not working, also I am sorry about adding the wrong names I only got it two days ago, the point is that it's not working the way it should be etc..

The question is are you going to sit there going through 700 odd keywords to check up on information eachtime, I know I wont be because it takes to much time to be honest.

Also you mention that theres no problem, then why did they give me the refund saying sorry that it's not working. Thanks for the suggestions by the way I shall check them out now

Lee

Thanks

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Ontopic I still need to get some suggestions based on something else to purchase ASAP, so if anyone can help me out that would be great.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

I just need something to get top notch keywords for my business's, not really looking for free applications or anything because they normaly do not work.

Lee

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IM Lover

13 years ago

I guess I did jump the gun slightly it's just hard when your clueless about things, I may re purchase it again but then the videos are slightly out dated, perhaps I can find something to help me along the way with the new features and settings.

Lee

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King Louie

13 years ago

How about Traffic Travis?

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IM Lover 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Content Winner

How about Traffic Travis?

I have heard not to many great things about the TT, just being honest with you thanks for the suggestion though mate.

Lee
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- Jill Carpenter 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Richard Van
  
  My only request is I'm allowed to be naked when filming and drinking Rum, like Caliban.
  
  Now why didn't I think of that? I always try to play and drink along, and because of the time difference or something I have always missed when the naked hour occurs.
  
  If I had only had a video made.
  
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Amagi71

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Content Winner

How about Traffic Travis?

TT seems to be almost useless for anyone outside the U.S. who wants accurate U.S. SEO analysis results as it doesn't provide accurate results when selecting the United States as the search location. I like its interface a lot more than MS but it doesn't do the job in terms of accuracy. It has a proxy feature but this renders the search process painfully slow.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Amagi71

TT seems to be almost useless for anyone outside the U.S. who wants accurate U.S. SEO analysis results as it doesn't provide accurate results when selecting the United States as the search location. I like its interface a lot more than MS but it doesn't do the job in terms of accuracy. It has a proxy feature but this renders the search process painfully slow.

Is it not also "free" which would be why it's not really worth touching.

Thanks
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Amagi71

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Is it not also "free" which would be why it's not really worth touching.

There is a free and paid version. The free version is all you need to use the SEO analysis section. If you try it from the UK and select U.S. search results and then compare it with MS you might see some noticeable differences. I'm from Canada and the results I was getting for certain terms showed .uk and .au results in the top ten which was nothing like the results I received when I used MS. I'm convinced MS is more accurate if you are targeting the U.S. market from outside the U.S.

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GillyTheKid

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Amagi71

There is a free and paid version. The free version is all you need to use the SEO analysis section. If you try it from the UK and select U.S. search results and then compare it with MS you might see some noticeable differences. I'm from Canada and the results I was getting for certain terms showed .uk and .au results in the top ten which was nothing like the results I received when I used MS. I'm convinced MS is more accurate if you are targeting the U.S. market from outside the U.S.

I'm shopping MS and TT (and MNF for that matter) and I got scared off of MS due to the issues as of late. Haven't purchased either. Have a few more days left to get the $97 offer of MS. I have complete confidence in MS developers just from reading their words to their customers.

But I was leaning toward TT. Now I'm not so sure. I want something that would be pretty fast at figuring out if my keywords would be profitable. I'm not much into analyzing deep deep deeper, only if it will help me get a more concrete answer to profitability.

I'm in US, targeting US traffic mainly, but will also be targeting out of US too.
Is TT really not that good?

Thanks

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Jill Carpenter

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee789

Hi

To be honest it was pretty tricky tying to use an application following videos which were out dated, because the settings on the videos were different to the ones on the latest MS, hence why I was in such a pickle yesterday after reading both the WF thread and the MS blog itself.

To sum up I had out dated videos to follow using the updated MS, then the thread with members suggesting that the missing features were a must, and the blog which was slightly daunting to read, so to be honest now I am even more stuck and lost than I was yesterday.

Lee

Oh dear. If this was enough to discourage you and leave you feeling stuck, lol - lets just say this is sometimes a normal day for me

Originally Posted by Richard Van

There are other things you can use and those video's are not so bad. If you did get it again I'd be happy to get on a screen share thing with you and show you how I find niches and analyse the competition.

ohhh! Can I watch? I like to watch

I have access to a conference room with live screen capture and a chat box for questions. Let me know if I can organize you some time there.

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Richard Van

13 years ago

ohhh! Can I watch? I like to watch

That may have to be a seperate video Jill

I have access to a conference room with live screen capture and a chat box for questions. Let me know if I can organize you some time there.

That might be a good idea actually. I'm not an expert but I do know how to use the keyword and competition module well enough to show people how to do it.

My only request is I'm allowed to be naked when filming and drinking Rum, like Caliban.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

That may have to be a seperate video Jill

That might be a good idea actually. I'm not an expert but I do know how to use the keyword and competition module well enough to show people how to do it.

My only request is I'm allowed to be naked when filming and drinking Rum, like Caliban.

HAHHA joker you will scare her off mate, I am going to grab the MS again I think, because after speaking with you it seems like the best option, I will PM you when everything is re downloaded blah blah/

Here is a thought you could always put together some sort of PDF and sell it to us instead, if saves you the hassle of getting on Skype and mucking around, I for one would purchase it for you

Lee

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter

Oh dear. If this was enough to discourage you and leave you feeling stuck, lol - lets just say this is sometimes a normal day for me

ohhh! Can I watch? I like to watch

I have access to a conference room with live screen capture and a chat box for questions. Let me know if I can organize you some time there.

You might as well jump on Skype with us I am sure there is room for three to acesss it.

Lee

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IM Lover

13 years ago

I have purchased the MS again based on some members letting me know that they will sort the problems out in the end, also there are other way to use it which I did not know about, Richard Van has kindly offered to help me out in the next couple of days which is great, cant wait for the help because I cant even us it right now it's just sitting on my computer, reason being is because the videos are some what out dated on the MS site, so some options/settings are no longer there.

Lee

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Zanti

13 years ago

Hey Jill, Richard and Lee,

I'm thinking we should do a group thing, I've had MS since it first came out and just now trying to use it and I don't have a glue what I'm doing with it. I've look at most of the dojo videos, the 30 day Ch. videos and youtube and I'm still confused.

So if the group thing turns you guys on let me in please.

If not direct me to an updated tut that explains MS for the less than gifted.

Brian (Z)

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Zanti

Hey Jill, Richard and Lee,

I'm thinking we should do a group thing, I've had MS since it first came out and just now trying to use it and I don't have a glue what I'm doing with it. I've look at most of the dojo videos, the 30 day Ch. videos and youtube and I'm still confused.

So if the group thing turns you guys on let me in please.

If not direct me to an updated tut that explains MS for the less than gifted.

Brian (Z)

No problem Brian cant see why it would be a problem to be honest, come and tagg along with us and hopefully we shall learn how to use it.

Lee

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johnking2004

13 years ago

I'm having a weird glitch with the Keyword Research module where after I generate my keywords, then I send them over to keyword analysis, hit the 'Analysis Keywords' button and it ends up clearing out all the traffic data. So basically its not showing any keywords if I have minimum traffic filters in place. Even when I turn off all filters the SEOT shows '-' instead of a number for all the keywords.

Very frustrating.

Thanks
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KateD

13 years ago

Originally Posted by johnking2004

I'm having a weird glitch with the Keyword Research module where after I generate my keywords, then I send them over to keyword analysis, hit the 'Analysis Keywords' button and it ends up clearing out all the traffic data. So basically its not showing any keywords if I have minimum traffic filters in place. Even when I turn off all filters the SEOT shows '-' instead of a number for all the keywords.

Very frustrating.

Am having the same problem. Driving me crazy over here. ANy assistance would be AWESOME!

Also, I keep getting no values for the OCI stats. Anyone else have this problem?

KateD

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johnking2004

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KateD

Am having the same problem. Driving me crazy over here. ANy assistance would be AWESOME!

Also, I keep getting no values for the OCI stats. Anyone else have this problem?

KateD

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. It was driving me crazy too.

As for the OCI, the last time I checked it was down on the Microsoft adlab as well, which is where Market Samurai gets its data.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

When I gather my keywords then hit the analysis, half of my filtered keywords vanish as well very odd.

Lee

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Stephen Crooks

13 years ago

To all the people on this thread that are saying the SEOTC and SEOUC data is irrelevant are obviously missing a trick when it comes to analysing "at a glance" keyword competition.

All that MS shoes now is basic SEOC and Adwords competition in the keyword research module. In terms of SEO and not PPC, the SEOC data is pretty useless on its own. The reason why SEOTC and SEOUC were probably the most important data after the search numbers in the keyword research module is because it gave you a great way of seeing which keywords were being "Optimised" for and which ones were not.

A keyword which had a low SEOTC but a high SEOC number told me that the website owners which used that keyword were not optimising for it. Potentially this told me it was either a worthless keyword or a potential goldmine. Either way, it meant that the keyword warranted further research in the SEO competition module to determine how lucrative or not that keyword could be for me.

This functionality has been taken away now and it is a BIG miss for me personally. I am not bashing MS though, it has been and hopefully still will be a great tool moving forward but they have been fighting a losing battle lately with the changes Google have been making, there is no doubt about that. I feel sorry for the noble samurais though because they do work hard at rectifying problems but recently it has been an avalanche out of their control it seems.

To answer the OP's original question though, check out Jack Duncan's keyword sniper pro WSO here and also the all in scraper WSO which will scrape the data missing from MS now.

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Neville Pettersson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

To all the people on this thread that are saying the SEOTC and SEOUC data is irrelevant are obviously missing a trick when it comes to analysing "at a glance" keyword competition.

All that MS shoes now is basic SEOC and Adwords competition in the keyword research module. In terms of SEO and not PPC, the SEOC data is pretty useless on its own. The reason why SEOTC and SEOUC were probably the most important data after the search numbers in the keyword research module is because it gave you a great way of seeing which keywords were being "Optimised" for and which ones were not.

A keyword which had a low SEOTC but a high SEOC number told me that the website owners which used that keyword were not optimising for it. Potentially this told me it was either a worthless keyword or a potential goldmine. Either way, it meant that the keyword warranted further research in the SEO competition module to determine how lucrative or not that keyword could be for me.

This functionality has been taken away now and it is a BIG miss for me personally. I am not bashing MS though, it has been and hopefully still will be a great tool moving forward but they have been fighting a losing battle lately with the changes Google have been making, there is no doubt about that. I feel sorry for the noble samurais though because they do work hard at rectifying problems but recently it has been an avalanche out of their control it seems.

To answer the OP's original question though, check out Jack Duncan's keyword sniper pro WSO here and also the all in scraper WSO which will scrape the data missing from MS now.

Couldn't agree more with this post. As someone who uses SEO the title and URL competition components are a big MISS. Hopefully MS can do something to rectify it. Says on their blog they might use Bing as an alternative to get this data.

Knowledge is power and in even more so in SEO.

Thanks

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

To all the people on this thread that are saying the SEOTC and SEOUC data is irrelevant are obviously missing a trick when it comes to analysing "at a glance" keyword competition.

For a long time I considered all this data (SEOC, SEOUC, SEOTC), Steve, and all that happened was:

(1) My keyword research actually took a whole lot longer;

(2) I sometimes wrongly dismissed keyword-phrases on the basis of these numbers being too high, on the sheer assumption that they indicated strong overall competition; and

(3) I sometimes went on to analyse the strength of my potential SEO competition on the basis of these numbers being low, only to discover that what few pages/sites were optimised for that keyword-phrase were monstrously well optimised, and would be too difficult to beat.

Sometimes there was a correlation between low SEOC, SEOTC and SEOUC numbers and weak overall SEO competition, but seemingly just as often it was simply not the case. So why was I not only getting caught up in looking at this data, but letting it essentially, wrongly and - in truth - rather stupidly dictate to me what keywords I should or shouldn't be analysing more deeply?

It was all loss as far as I was concerned, because all the time I spent clearing my keyword list and and starting over (to find ones with lower numbers) could've been time better spent properly analysing the true strength - not the volume - of my potential SEO competition and, after finding a few golden nuggets in the process, going on to rank highly and make some decent bank.

In other words, it wasn't a time-saver; it was time/effort/attention-waster, and I stood only to lose out by doing this.

If you think about what potential scenarios high SEOC/SEOTC/SEOUC figures convey to us, anyway, it's not hard to see why they're often not representative of anything too meaningful in terms of your ranking potential. One of which may be:

Keyword A looks superficially attractive to spammy SEO'ers because it's derivative of (or else related in some way to) keyword B, which commands a good number of searches and is fairly profitable, but is also monstrously competitive from an SEO standpoint.

SEO'ers churn out pages after pages "optimised" for these keywords - sometimes they're placed into manually spun content; other times auto-spun garbage; other times scraped content, and other times just rubbish handwritten content - and sometimes throw a few (probably automated) low-quality backlinks at them.

This inflates the figures we see in tools like Market Samurai.

The sites that engage in this practice are, for the most part, exceptionally low-quality and will never amass any real SEO authority. In other words, they're easy to beat with a little manual link-building and decent content that can actually draw in natural backlinks.

Now, you could dismiss keyword-phrases based off numbers that arise due to such practices. Or even because of large numbers of non-commercially-motivated sites of which the webmasters have little to no idea about (nor any interest in) SEO and backlink-building, and will remain relatively weak competition forever on that basis. Or because of a multitude of other scenarios which have resulted in weak SEO competition despite the large volume of pages which populate the SERPs and may have been specifically optimised (on-page) for this keyword-phrase.

That is not something I'm prepared to do, however. I've made my mistake once, and it won't happen again.

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Lee Goodman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

...all the time I spent clearing my keyword list and and starting over (to find ones with lower numbers) could've been time better spent properly analysing the true strength - not the volume - of my potential SEO competition and, after finding a few golden nuggets in the process, going on to rank highly and make some decent bank.

If you're not using the combination of SEOC, SEOUC, , SEOTC, how would you analyze the true strength?

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lee Goodman

If you're not using the combination of SEOC, SEOUC, , SEOTC, how would you analyze the true strength?

Hi Lee,

I don't feel that SEOC, SEOUC, SEOTC, or any other figures pertaining to the amount of competition is a good way to gauge the SEO strength of a keyword.

When I go after a keyword, my aim is usually to rank on Page 1 in Google's SERPs. Therefore, all that matters to me is the strength of the first-page competition. The total "number of competition" I couldn't really care less about, and isn't really relevant nor indicative of anything that could affect my end goal.

For example, you might have a keyword with a 2,000,000 SEOC, of which 400,000 have the keywords in a page's title and 300,000 have the keyword in the URL, too. But check the first page of Google competition using Market Samurai's "SEO Competition" module and you could very well discover a number of those results are low/no-PR pages on sites that don't cater specifically to the subject matter to which your keyword phrase pertains. And they might have very few backlinks.

Conversely, you might have a keyword phrase with very low SEOC, SEOTC and SEOUC numbers, which might make you think "GREAT - a low competition keyword!". And you may be right, but low competition doesn't necessarily indicate weak competition, and a glimpse at Google's page-1 results may contain many high-PR pages with many thousands or tens of thousands (or more) of high-PR, context-relevant backlinks, and the whole site may be highly relevant and authoritative for that and related keywords.

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Stephen Crooks

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

Hi Lee,
I don't feel that SEOC, SEOUC, SEOTC, or any other figures pertaining to the amount of competition is a good way to gauge the SEO strength of a keyword.

Micheal, a lot of what you say is absolutely correct and I am not suggesting for one second that you should base your keyword choices on how the SEOTC, SEOUC and SEOC numbers are. With all due respect though, I believe you are missing the point of why these "indicators" are very useful when it comes to keyword research and why it is important Market Samurai work out a way of including this data again.

My point is this.. When I start my keyword research, I usually have several keywords that I want to dig into. These keywords are based on some extensive research I have already done in the niche from various forums, magazines etc, even chatting to enthusiasts.

At this stage, and assuming I am creating a brand new web site in this niche, I want to go after ranking for keywords that are both valuable in terms of what I am selling and have at least some search volume. There are a few ways of finding these keywords..

1. Brainstorm keywords that I would search for if I were looking for the product I am selling.

2. Number of advertisers in the niche and the keywords they are targeting.

3. Website publishers optimising for certain keywords.

These three points above are very powerful factors for me when I am in keyword research mode. Point 3 above is where I am want to see which keywords are being optimised for by website publishers and as such the SEOTC, SEOUC are big indicators of this.

So, I have my several seed keywords that I want to dig into with MS and I then sort by the SEOTC. Immediately, I can see which keywords are being optimised for and which are not. The theory being, why optimise for a keyword if it is worthless? Now, it doesn't necessarily mean they are valuable or anything like you say but they are a great basis for more digging.

I will then look at the resultant keyword list will and look at advertiser numbers and CPC associated with each one and I will also assess whether they are valuable to the product or service I am selling.

I will also do some deep research into the top 10 of Google for the best of those keywords and lo and behold at the end of all that, I have a list of keywords to target that are potentially extremely valuable to my new site.

Of course all this research come second to any insider knowledge of the niche. If you are an expert in that niche's subject matter then you shouldn't be afraid to take on any keyword to be honest.

The point I agree most with though is that you shouldn't allow keyword research to be another excuse for procrastinating and wasting time. Have a plan of what you are looking for and just choose what keywords are right for you. SEOTC and SEOUC are great indicators and are sorely missed by me but they are NOT the basis for keyword choices.

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DireStraits

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

Micheal, a lot of what you say is absolutely correct and I am not suggesting for one second that you should base your keyword choices on how the SEOTC, SEOUC and SEOC numbers are. With all due respect though, I believe you are missing the point of why these "indicators" are very useful when it comes to keyword research and why it is important Market Samurai work out a way of including this data again.

My point is this.. When I start my keyword research, I usually have several keywords that I want to dig into. These keywords are based on some extensive research I have already done in the niche from various forums, magazines etc, even chatting to enthusiasts.

At this stage, and assuming I am creating a brand new web site in this niche, I want to go after ranking for keywords that are both valuable in terms of what I am selling and have at least some search volume. There are a few ways of finding these keywords..

1. Brainstorm keywords that I would search for if I were looking for the product I am selling.

2. Number of advertisers in the niche and the keywords they are targeting.

3. Website publishers optimising for certain keywords.

These three points above are very powerful factors for me when I am in keyword research mode. Point 3 above is where I am want to see which keywords are being optimised for by website publishers and as such the SEOTC, SEOUC are big indicators of this.

So, I have my several seed keywords that I want to dig into with MS and I then sort by the SEOTC. Immediately, I can see which keywords are being optimised for and which are not. The theory being, why optimise for a keyword if it is worthless? Now, it doesn't necessarily mean they are valuable or anything like you say but they are a great basis for more digging.

I will then look at the resultant keyword list will and look at advertiser numbers and CPC associated with each one and I will also assess whether they are valuable to the product or service I am selling.

I will also do some deep research into the top 10 of Google for the best of those keywords and lo and behold at the end of all that, I have a list of keywords to target that are potentially extremely valuable to my new site.

Of course all this research come second to any insider knowledge of the niche. If you are an expert in that niche's subject matter then you shouldn't be afraid to take on any keyword to be honest.

The point I agree most with though is that you shouldn't allow keyword research to be another excuse for procrastinating and wasting time. Have a plan of what you are looking for and just choose what keywords are right for you. SEOTC and SEOUC are great indicators and are sorely missed by me but they are NOT the basis for keyword choices.

I hear you, Steve. And I agree that it's always nice to have more data at your disposal, because "keyword research" needn't necessarily just be about "deciding which keywords are 'weak enough' to target for SEO".

But in many conversations here and elsewhere, not to mention in many products and free keyword selection guides/reports, lots of numbers are flung around that serve as advised "cut off points".

I've personally found quite a lot of "gem keywords" with very high SEOC (etc.) figures that turned out, on inspection, to have very weak first page competition. Had I decided to jettison those keyword phrases from my list purely on the basis of this data, I'd never have achieved a relatively easy page one ranking for them and would have passed up on a significant amount of money as a result.

That is why when people say "if a keyword has an SEOC figure of over 10k (or 20k, 30k or whatever), pass on it because it'll be too strong", my response is "this really means nothing" or something like the above. You can use such data as indicators, or take it into account for other purposes, but to completely dismiss a keyword on the basis of competition volume and the predicted strength of competition, rather than the actual strength, could be akin to shooting oneself in the foot.

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Stephen Crooks

13 years ago

Originally Posted by DireStraits

That is why when people say "if a keyword has an SEOC figure of over 10k (or 20k, 30k or whatever), pass on it because it'll be too strong", my response is "this really means nothing" or something like the above. You can use such data as indicators, or take it into account for other purposes, but to completely dismiss a keyword on the basis of competition volume and the predicted strength of competition, rather than the actual strength, could be akin to shooting oneself in the foot.

I couldn't agree with you more! SEO competition numbers mean nothing in terms of competition strength. However, SEOTC and SEOUC do show how many are potentially using SEO to try to rank for those keywords.

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Lee Goodman

13 years ago

I've never used the "Thanks" button so much in one thread.

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks I couldn't agree with you more! SEO competition numbers mean nothing in terms of competition strength. However, SEOTC and SEOUC do show how many are potentially using SEO to try to rank for those keywords.

This is why I've enjoyed SEOTC and SEOUC as well. Thanks for the tip about the all in scraper WSO. I purchased it today.

Originally Posted by DireStraits ...to completely dismiss a keyword on the basis of competition volume and the predicted strength of competition, rather than the actual strength, could be akin to shooting oneself in the foot.

Exactly. I've felt this way for a long time and tried to use a combination of Market Samurai and WordTracker to discover keywords that looks more at the strength of competition based on total backlinks, rather than the quantity of existing pages. However, the problem for me with WordTracker is that it doesn't have data for all keywords.

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IM Lover

13 years ago

Anyone who uses the MS I have a quick question based on the SEO competition Analysis , I would just like to find out what you tend to avoid competing with, example if you select a keyword with some decent amount of daily searches, and then look at the SEO competition Analysis section and see the top 10 has quite a lot of backlinks, but the Domains are not that old, also they have no onpage SEO would you go for it or tend to leave it because of the backlinks they have.

I am just finding it hard to work out whats to hard and whats not based on selecting keywords, the problem is that the MS has videos explaining how it works, however it does not really let you know which stats to target and which to avoid.

Lee

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raukaspa

13 years ago

Well, if you are not satisfied with market samurai then there are many other software for meeting this need but you need to make inquiry first if they are really popular, forums are really helpful about knowing which one is popular and good working software so that you can ensure that you are doing in the right way.

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alohascott1

13 years ago

Those features seem to be working now.
seotc seoltc seouc seoluc seotcr all seem to work.

Its getting the rest of the data that is a problem as numerous people have reported getting error messages like this.

"Due to rate-limiting of requests to Google, your analysis cannot be completed"

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dagaul101

13 years ago

You could go the old fashion route, and have a look at Google External Keywords, then check the search results, and analyse each site in the top 10 individually, takes a little longer, but then when a product comes about that does what you are looking for you will be more apt to judge

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alohascott1

13 years ago

"a little longer"?

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Had to get a refund from Market Samurai based on the (SEOTC or SEOUC) what should I purchase now?

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