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"backlinks" take another big hit AGAIN. Time to give up weak services as a major ranking factor

by Mike Anthony
68 replies
  • SEO
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Removed By OP
#backlinks #big #factor #give #hit #major #ranking #services #time #weak
  • Profile picture of the author noble
    I disagree. The best strategy is to have DIVERSE links. Profile links, articles, blog posts, blog comments, web 2.0 properties, sitewide links for other sites, etc. I would have to say that being diverse and appearing natural is always the best strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      What do you need diverse for?

      I agree with the "diverse" part, if it means from a wide variety of sources.
      But that list is low level. And getting lower. Diversity for the sake of diversity
      is not a good way to spend your time. But profile links, blog comments, article
      sites, etc. have long been going downhill.

      High PR, relevant, authoritative links. Toss in contextual, and you are singing
      my tune. That's my idea of diverse.

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author AgentHomes
        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

        But profile links, blog comments, article
        sites, etc. have long been going downhill.

        High PR, relevant, authoritative links. Toss in contextual, and you are singing
        my tune. That's my idea of diverse.

        Paul
        High PR, relevant, authoritative links are great because they are rare and very hard to get.

        It's the profile links, blog comments etc that bind the internet together and they need to care some weight. I do not think that they can be completely devalued if anything the authoritative links will begin to carry more value.
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        • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
          That's probably right for aggressive search terms, but if I'm trying to rank for "blue wool socks" I might be alright with some lower-quality links to get me to the top and simply not require the higher-level seo you're suggesting is required.

          Having high PR, dofollow, contextual links to my bluewoolsocks.org site might be a bit overkill, no? Of course, if I'm trying to get ranked for Lawyers NY it's going to take a bit more than profile links to get me there...but that doesn't mean there's not a market for low-level links to bluewoolsocks.org.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by noble View Post

      I disagree. The best strategy is to have DIVERSE links. Profile links, articles, blog posts, blog comments, web 2.0 properties, sitewide links for other sites, etc. I would have to say that being diverse and appearing natural is always the best strategy.
      So you can't get diverse links from sites within contextual links? LOL. You do realize that few big companies and corporations do blog commenting and rank quit fine. Anyway I expected some backlink sellers to get upset and you sell one in your sig soooo........

      But don't get me wrong I still will use a profile backlink in a weak competition term but the gist of my post is not to concentrate on those kinds of links. They are weak and getting weaker everyday. As you can see from the serps a number of backlink sellers have moved on to more powerful stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author noble
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        So you can't get diverse links from sites within contextual links? LOL. You do realize that few big companies and corporations do blog commenting and rank quit fine. Anyway I expected some backlink sellers to get upset and you sell one in your sig soooo........
        You misunderstand me. I was disagreeing that certain types of links should be dropped altogether. A link is a link and while some are certainly of higher authority I was merely saying you shouldn't focus on one type of link building

        PS the backlinks I sell come a wide variety of platforms (including full blog posts, contextual links which you are talking about) so I'm not trying to misguide people to make my services sound better as you have so arrogantly accused me of.

        I am simply saying that people should always be trying to get links, they are good for you. Saying something as general as profile links are no good is pretty much BS as far as I'm concerned.

        I personally have great results with profile links as a PART of my overall campaign. Build one, you now have a page with your link as the only OBL on an authority domain. Blast some links to it and you'll have a PR2 page with your link as the only OBL on it coming from a site such as Adobe; how could you say that link has no value?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by noble View Post


          Blast some links to it and you'll have a PR2 page with your link as the only OBL on it coming from a site such as Adobe; how could you say that link has no value?
          You need to learn how to read Noble. Please tell me where in this entire thread I said profile backlinks have zero value. Thats why you think its BS because you brought the "BS" in. I said they are weak and will ALWAYS have some effect.

          read the thread title - says weak doesn't it? not no value. and if you are telling me that profile links are streong enough to be the major ranking factor in a good campaign I will tell you now you are the one raking in the garbage. They are weak and they are forever getting weaker.


          Originally Posted by InitialEffort View Post

          The thing is people are missing about on the big picture. You need to have a bunch of different types of links. This is generally how I would break it down.

          High PR Links - Blog Comments, Articles, Homepage, Sitewide
          Low PR Links - Profile, Forum Post, Blog Comments, Articles, Social Bookmark, RSS
          Sorry Initial I make my living full time doing SEO and SEO competitive analysis and there are COUNTLESS sites ranking in top high traffic serps that don't show a single forum profile backlink. nada. ZIP. Same goes for blog comments. You need links from a number of sites yes you do not NEED to have forum profile or blog comments. Thats false. Do a couple searches with a good backlink checker and you will see.

          Like I said I still will use them but they are weak and they get weaker each year. Should not be a major focus.
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          • Profile picture of the author noble
            All you do is post out theories. I highly doubt SEO is your full time income and if it is then you probably are in low competition niches. I have been doing this for almost 12 years now.

            At the end of the day there are a ton of factors that come into place for each link including but not limited to:

            OBLs on the page
            authority of the page/site
            niche/relevancy
            anchor text
            nofollow/dofollow

            You can achieve many of these things with profile links and they are included in every SEO campaign that I run and they do have value. Of course all of my eggs are not in one basket but to call them "weak" is probably because you:

            A) take Angela or Paul's spammed forum lists and just drop your link, maybe ping it
            B) just plug profiles on random forums and do nothing else.

            Consider these a part of a linkwheel, you're getting a dofollow anchor texted link with no other OBLs on an authority site. Build some links to it and it will pass good juice.

            So please stop insulting me here, all I did was try to voice my opinion (someone who actually does this for a living instead of sitting there coming up with non real world theories) and you attacked me for trying to make a sales pitch or something. If you can't handle criticism then don't post your opinion and if you don't know what you're talking about please expect to receive some back.

            You make it sound like the only way to rank is to have a paid contextual link in your OP, that's false. And also how do you know the top people are not using xrumer? Only a fool would do xrumer blasts to their real page. It is the same theory here you create other pages on other domains and class C IPs that link to or are doorway pages for your main page and this is what you xrumer blast.

            Anyways I'm done with this thread, I tried to just voice my opinion but you have personally attacked me both times so right back at you. Learn what you're talking about instead of just reading what other people tell you because they're trying to find something to blog about to keep you coming back and maybe you'll make some money in this business.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            You need to learn how to read Noble. Please tell me where in this entire thread I said profile backlinks have zero value. Thats why you think its BS because you brought the "BS" in. I said they are weak and will ALWAYS have some effect.

            read the thread title - says weak doesn't it? not no value. and if you are telling me that profile links are streong enough to be the major ranking factor in a good campaign I will tell you now you rthe one raking in the garbage. they are weak and they are forever getting weaker.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
              Originally Posted by noble View Post

              All you do is post out theories. I highly doubt SEO is your full time income and if it is then you probably are in low competition niches. I have been doing this for almost 12 years now.

              At the end of the day there are a ton of factors that come into place for each link including but not limited to:

              OBLs on the page
              authority of the page/site
              niche/relevancy
              anchor text
              nofollow/dofollow

              You can achieve many of these things with profile links and they are included in every SEO campaign that I run and they do have value. Of course all of my eggs are not in one basket but to call them "weak" is probably because you:

              A) take Angela or Paul's spammed forum lists and just drop your link, maybe ping it
              B) just plug profiles on random forums and do nothing else.

              Consider these a part of a linkwheel, you're getting a dofollow anchor texted link with no other OBLs on an authority site. Build some links to it and it will pass good juice.

              So please stop insulting me here, all I did was try to voice my opinion (someone who actually does this for a living instead of sitting there coming up with non real world theories) and you attacked me for trying to make a sales pitch or something. If you can't handle criticism then don't post your opinion and if you don't know what you're talking about please expect to receive some back.

              You make it sound like the only way to rank is to have a paid contextual link in your OP, that's false. And also how do you know the top people are not using xrumer? Only a fool would do xrumer blasts to their real page. It is the same theory here you create other pages on other domains and class C IPs that link to or are doorway pages for your main page and this is what you xrumer blast.

              Anyways I'm done with this thread, I tried to just voice my opinion but you have personally attacked me both times so right back at you. Learn what you're talking about instead of just reading what other people tell and maybe you'll make some money in this business.
              I'll +1 this.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by noble View Post

              All you do is post out theories. I highly doubt SEO is your full time income and if it is then you probably are in low competition niches.
              You couldn't survive a week doing what I do with your profile heavy services but just curious - your doubt is based on what? My sig (I have none at the moment)? Because I question profile links and you sell them? really now. Lets bring it down a notch. Yes I stated you would be biased considering that you sell a backlink package. Besides that who was the first one to call the others position BS. You come in to this thread claiming that I said things I never did call it BS and you don't expect me to answer. Your initial comment was rude. You won't find a single post anywhere on Warriors where I call anyones position BS to escape the language filter.

              I don't give a rip about what you think based on zero information. I don't even have a sig for you to look at for you to know what my clientele is and you certainly are not one of my clients. So give it a rest. Profile links are considered weak by almost all professional SEOs. Fact. Sell how important it is because its your product but you either haven't done your research or just don't wan tot admit it. Again I use them and will continue to use them and they ARE weak and should not be a major part of a campaign. period.

              Quickly to your other many errors.

              no wrong again never bought Paula and angela's links. Actually have taught people how to find their own. too easy.

              and no wrong again you don't have to buy contextual links you can get them without buying them. Sheesh. Whose showing they only deal in weak serps now?.

              and no wrong again plenty people sell forum links to others and blast them straight to the site the customer gives them.

              anyway good luck to you.
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              • Profile picture of the author noble
                Last post here about to head out for lunch. I just re-read your first paragraph in the OP and I see where this confusion is. You were saying the backlink/SEO companies that are ranking for selling profile links are doing so via paid links; I thought you were trying to say that paid links were the only were to go (not for these type of sites but for sites in general). This, I admit, was my fault for reading too quickly.

                That being said I do offer some profile links but for the most part they're bonuses what I really sell on the site you're talking about and what is the real value is that I offer blog posts on real .EDU and .GOV high authority blogs (these are PR7-PR9 sites and you'd know the name of each and everyone if mentioned; most of my customers buy every list because these are powerful and they see the results quickly). Which means contextual links like you were talking about so no, I am not simply trying to defend that particular site and its sales.

                Further more that is something I started doing on the side perhaps 2-3 months ago, it is not even near my main income source.

                I do, in fact, agree that just dumping profile links on random forums is probably one of lowest quality links you can get; but again anyone with any SEO knowledge is not taking that approach.

                And finally I stand by the fact that profiles can certainly be valuable if you use them correctly. Create a profile on an authority site and do a blast to that profile, put a 250 word niche relevant post in your about/or sig area. You now have a page that is contextually relevant with 1 outbound dofollow anchor text link to your site coming from high authority sites that would otherwise not allow you to place links.

                I will also repeat for like the 5th time this is nowhere near my only SEO strategy but I do use it along with everything else I do on every site. Most of what occured here was me misunderstanding that first part where I thought you were saying that you have to purchase contextual links to rank and then when you accused me of trying to make up facts to sell profile links which is absolutely false.

                And last but not least I was plenty polite in my first post, the only thing that could be considered offensive is when I said
                I disagree.
                at which point you started with the baseless personal attacks which are totally uncalled for.

                If you understood how to properly utilize a profile for SEO benefits them I'm sure you'd see they work well, do some testing yourself or continue to believe what others tell you but please stop making personal accusations towards me as though you're 14 years old.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by noble View Post

                  Last post here about to head out for lunch. I just re-read your first paragraph in the OP and I see where this confusion is. You were saying the backlink/SEO companies that are ranking for selling profile links are doing so via paid links; I thought you were trying to say that paid links were the only were to go (not for these type of sites but for sites in general). This, I admit, was my fault for reading too quickly.
                  Yes you admit it but still are maintaining that you were perfectly in order to call a position BS that you didn't even understand. I am quite fine with that being your last post. I have no apologies. You misunderstood made up statement I never made and are trying to side step it like it was the proper thing to do.

                  at which point you started with the baseless personal attacks which are totally uncalled for.
                  You had it pointed out to you that you were a backlink seller and therefore for obvious reasons could not claim to be objective. that is all. Your next post made up things I never said and then claimed my position was BS which you now admit you didn't even understand. Still despite realizing you misread you are now sidestepping the responsibility of that and your totally changing what I said to make your point. .

                  Don't need to communicate further. Again good luck to you man.
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                  • Profile picture of the author noble
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Yes you admit it but still are maintaining that you were perfectly in order to call a position BS that you didn't even understand. I am quite fine with that being your last post. I have no apologies. You misunderstood made up statement I never made and are trying to side step it like it was the proper thing to do.



                    You had it pointed out to you that you were a backlink seller and therefore for obvious reasons could not claim to be objective. that is all. Your next post made up things I never said and then claimed my position was BS which you now admit you didn't even understand. Still despite realizing you misread you are now sidestepping the responsibility of that and your totally changing what I said to make your point. .

                    Don't need to communicate further. Again good luck to you man.
                    Ya, basically I'm saying I was in the wrong. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. Was only trying to defend the fact that you were dismissing my other (valid) points as a ploy to sell a product which they were not. I Obviously value my WF customers but they are far from what pays my bills; I wouldn't intentionally spread disinformation on the off chance one or two of them would read this thread.

                    Anyways lunch was tasty and no hard feelings; I think this whole thread was a big misunderstanding due to to me not comprehending your very first sentence properly.

                    Best of luck to you and have a beautiful day
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by noble View Post

                      I wouldn't intentionally spread disinformation on the off chance one or two of them would read this thread.
                      I never said anything about intentionally either in that first post. You misunderstood that as well. You may be newer to this debate but a few other people in this thread know I used to sell a profile backlink package. I still have a few customers I provide for. I am transitioning all of them over to different things. I used to see great value in them but times and things changed and the more I looked at competitive serps the more I couldn't find many serps that didn't have high PR contextual backlinks in competitive niches.

                      So I know that selling these services does make you see the virtues of them and not as much the downside. Thats natural not sinister Frankly it took WF temporarily banning the offers to make me sit down and look at it objectively. I was never into mass profile backlinks and not thousands of Forum profiles (and despite what you say there are PLENTY services that are blasting direct to customer sites) and I always told my customers profile backlinks were a starting place not a big part of a great campaign but I moved even my recommendation even for smaller operations further away from that. I always condemned mass spamming and got lots of sellers mad even when I used to be one. They would have none of any restraint. but I then moved even further away after stopping and looking at the serps.

                      Some of the ways you use them I can see with and may surprise you as I said STILL USE. but I still maintain they are weak and growing weaker. I can see the value in feeding second level pumper sites with some and certainly some bookmarking and I'd send some through an article site which depending does help with indexing but they are nowhere near what they used to be and the "backlinks" serps that every one is running from looking at shows this. CLEARLY.

                      So we are not THAT far off only I see them as weak and you claim they are not and I see them getting weaker and you probably don't. I wouldn't recommend a single newbie not getting better links from the get go now Yet I see people selling software for $150 a month to newbies to get these kinds of backlinks. Its nonsense to me. If anything they should go and concentrate on getting some contextual backlinks and run the profile links to them not chew up nearly two thousand dollars in a year placing the weak stuff.

                      Finally I should balance this out and say that some profile backlinks are stronger than others. Perhaps some of yours are like that but we have to be honest this is not where the profile backlink industry aims. It aims at finding tens of thousands of forum backlinks etc because the numbers sound sexier. It takes much more time to find profile backlinks that have more steam (usually due to better page rank flow with navigation to the profile) and customers don't want to hear about small packages anymore. Its a numbers game
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    • Profile picture of the author SEOEnlightenment
      Originally Posted by noble View Post

      I disagree. The best strategy is to have DIVERSE links. Profile links, articles, blog posts, blog comments, web 2.0 properties, sitewide links for other sites, etc. I would have to say that being diverse and appearing natural is always the best strategy.
      I would agree with Noble and the OP in fact (a little)...

      The forum profiles alone or predominance is a clear footprint for manipulation but they can help if you use the power of Xrumer to create profiles to diverse pages on the same domain or blog.

      The keyword here though is "diverse" and success will only be found in many different types of linking as a whole.

      Velocity and inexorable tenacity also have a role to play if the competition is strong.
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      Then again...there's always PPC ;)

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    • Profile picture of the author jacked
      Originally Posted by noble View Post

      I disagree. The best strategy is to have DIVERSE links. Profile links, articles, blog posts, blog comments, web 2.0 properties, sitewide links for other sites, etc. I would have to say that being diverse and appearing natural is always the best strategy.
      Exactly. I use almost exclusively automated links for all my sites and am still doing great even with all these Google Updates.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by jacked View Post

        Exactly. I use almost exclusively automated links for all my sites and am still doing great even with all these Google Updates.
        So what happened to the site in your URL? it isn't even showing in the serps (except at 117 in Bing) for the term backlink that your page is targeting.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    As long as people believe the hype they will keep buying it. Many services thrive on hype, not results. The secret to SEO is making a good website that people want to revisit. So often people thing they can just make some automated scheme and "bingo!". That may provide very short term success, but it is a failure in the long run, unless they too are purveyors of hype.
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  • Profile picture of the author evelyng
    It's hard to say though. I am currently being out-ranked on a keyword by a person who has 132 links (3/4 of them are Forum links). I can't figure this out because even though I supposedly have forum links, they are not counting as backlinks.

    But I do agree, links from authority sites are best (because even some of my Web 2.0 properties are not registering a backlink), but how do you get other webmasters to give you a link for an article?
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    • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
      Here we go again ...

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by evelyng View Post

      It's hard to say though. I am currently being out-ranked on a keyword by a person who has 132 links (3/4 of them are Forum links).
      Thats because they are not ranking based on the forum links. Look at the other quarter and you will find why they are beating you.

      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      My strategy is NOT use backlinks at all. I just scream, bang my head on the wall and pray, I do lots of pray.

      You are onto something. If you could get a video of that and I guarantee you would get alot of backlinks. Probably would go viral as well

      Forum backlinks can NOW be dead BUT in next update (or next) they will come back strong - as usual with all Google updates...
      you are confusing updates with dances. keyword stuffing did not come back strong, link farms did not come back strong. Changes to the algo do not come back strong later in the opposite direction.
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        You are onto something. If you could get a video of that and I guarantee you would get alot of backlinks. Probably would go viral as well
        My head hurts already Mike...

        you are confusing updates with dances. keyword stuffing did not come back strong, link farms did not come back strong. Changes to the algo do not come back strong later in the opposite direction.
        But to be fair I have to remind you *some* (if not all) of these old school tricks are always coming back - at least to GPT. Told you before: they use us as a test ground. We are their monkeys.



        But I understand your point and hopefully forum profiles will get dropped to stratosphere for good.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

          My head hurts already Mike...

          Video please
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    My strategy is NOT use backlinks at all. I just scream, bang my head on the wall and pray, I do lots of pray.

    !!

    Forum backlinks can NOW be dead BUT in next update (or next) they will come back strong - as usual with all Google updates...
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    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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  • Profile picture of the author claynekeegan
    When building backlinks, the key is to be consistent. Doing everything you can to gain backlinks regularly is important so that your website can maintain its rank. Backlink building does involve work and it's not entertaining, but is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author royljestr
    The reason people think forum profile backlinks are dead is because they really don't know what they are or how to use them!!

    When you create a forum profile you are creating a NEW page on that domain name...hence NO PR and NO credibility!! Yeah the domain may have a good PR, but the page you just created doesn't!

    When I build forum profiles for clients I generally do it as a pyramid (Links pointing to links pointing to your URL). This will give your second layer of profiles more credibility and therefore pass more to your main URL.

    Ultimately you should diversify with some good do-follow backlinks on existing pages, PR backlinks and so on.

    So are they worthless??? Not at all! But like anything, you gotta know how to use it!
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  • Profile picture of the author abhibh
    I somehow agree that profile links might be loosing juice. I have 5 sites which i was working on for past 2 months. 2 are doing good as they have links from manual blog comments, articles and web 2.0. 2 sites have been hit majorly.

    1. Profile links pointing to my site. Ranking dropped from 2nd page to 9th :S
    2. Another site profile links pointing to web2.0 properties. Ranking is same as of now.
    3. 3rd site profile links pointing to website / web2.0 properties. Ranking has dropped from page 1 and dancing between 3rd and 4th page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    TBH, I stopped reading when you said "and why xrummer users are not dominating all the competitive terms on Google".

    You're trying to pass off opinion as fact while using a ton of logical fallacies in your arguments both in your OP and your replies.

    Damn that Google sky! It's falling every day, now!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      TBH, I stopped reading when you said "and why xrummer users are not dominating all the competitive terms on Google".
      Who cares? We've never agreed on anything SEO related and you have always been out of step with professional SEOs. I certainly don't read your stuff so you shouldn't even start reading mine. Fact is the serp is looking at you right in the face. Its in the OP.

      "Backlinks" once had sites ranking high in it with just profile links. Now they have fallen way down and some off the front page. Put your head in the sand for all I care. . I got the proof you have the rhetoric

      Whereas Last year this time I knew people were going wild with profile backlinks now those same people have moved on to add contextual high pr links more and more. You can pretend that isn't the case but the serps prove it. I've yet to see any of you backlink sellers and fanboys come up with any truly competitive serp ranking on the power of profile links alone. . You harp on it for one good reason - you make money selling blasts to other people. You were in the other thread mentioned too claiming it was all smoke. So what happenend man. get tback on the front page and rank in the top three for for "backlinks". Prove me wrong. You certainly have been proven wrong since then. and frankly thats a pretty weak term anyway. Doesn't even make my cut for truly competitive.

      or you can go ahead and do the IM SEO industry standard shell game and show some weak old Serps where you are dominating the top spot. Only place where those are sill effective by themselves without other links doing the real heavy lifting is with serps where the sites that don't have good SEO people on them
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Who cares? We've never agreed on anything SEO related and you have always been out of step with professional SEOs. I certainly don't read your stuff so you shouldn't even start reading mine. Fact is the serp is looking at you right in the face. Its in the OP.

        "Backlinks" once had sites ranking high in it with just profile links. Now they have fallen way down and some off the front page. Put your head in the sand for all I care. . I go thte proof you have the rhetoric

        Whereas Last year this time I knew people were going wild with profile backlinks now those same people have moved on to add contexttual high pr links more and more. You can pretend that isn't the case but the serps prove it. I've yet to see any of you backlink sellers and fanboys come up with any truly compettive serp ranking on the power of profile links alone. . You harp on it for one good reason - you make money selling blasts to other people.
        I'm out of step with professional SEOs? Huge LOLs at that one.

        You should study the adult niche. Or how about the uproar with "shoes", "mens shoes", "womens shoes" when a site literally blasted millions of links with xrumer, was #1 for over 2 months before G manually removed the site?

        But sure, if it makes you feel better that profile links are becoming devalued, keep doing what you're doing, though I've not the slightest clue what it is that you do.

        edit - but yes, you're right. In the past month and a half, I've done over $30k with my WSO and yet it's still only supplemental income.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

          though I've not the slightest clue what it is that you do.

          He he he. I could tell that you don't. you are generally lost on real SEO as I remember it. Always spurting some thing about this or that ranking and never putting up any proof. Sure Jcpenney got up there too with some scuzzy links but if you actually looked at their serps you would have seen that they had High PR links as well. My point exactly. Meanwhile ranking for two months and getting torpedoed is your idea of good SEO? You are lost.

          Who gives a rip about the adult market. It doesn't surprise me that thats your key example. Maybe one day you will realize that google doesn't give a rip who ranks number one for certain serps because it doesn't consider any of them quality.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            He he he. I could tell that you don't. you are generally lost on real SEO as I remember it. Always spurting some thing about this or that ranking and never putting up any proof. Sure Jcpenney got up there too with some scuzzy links but if you actually looked at their serps you would have seen that they had High PR links as well. My point exactly. Meanwhile ranking for two months and getting torpedoed is your idea of good SEO? You are lost.
            Your point exactly? I never once mentioned JC Penney. I also never said ranking for two months before being nuked is "good seo". Any other straws you'd like to grasp at?

            Also, point out an example of me being "lost on real SEO".

            And you truly believe that Google thinks all adult sites are not "quality" or are you simply just trolling now?

            First, define "quality".
            Second, reason why G would segregate entire niches deeming them not "quality".
            Third, explain why if G did not care about the adult niche, why would it manually remove certain sites from the index rather than the entire niche?
            Fourth, if G didn't think any of the adult niche sites weren't "quality" then why are the major adult sites using Adwords and have been for years?
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

              one of us ranking for affiliate marketing
              Good then perhaps that one person can teach you how to rank for a competitive term because a quick search of that serp proves my point. The top rankers (top three) HAVE high PR backlinks as the major ranking factor not weak profile links - PROVING MY POINT yet once again.

              Go ahead and ignore another serp that proves you wrong even though you were the one that gave it..



              Also, point out an example of me being "lost on real SEO"
              See above.

              And you truly believe that Google thinks all adult sites are not "quality" or are you simply just trolling now?
              Oh good grief. Are you trolling? the general public does not consider Porn as quality and you think a major corporation does have you never read any studies on bad neighborhoods and thier affect on SEO? Crickets!

              first, define "quality".
              First you define a quality porn site for me

              Second, reason why G would segregate entire niches deeming them not "quality".
              Who said anything about segregation. Did Panda segregate any niche? No but by reason of the algo change it affected some more than others as an expression of what google determines as quality. This is easy stuff.

              Third, explain why if G did not care about the adult niche, why would it manually remove certain sites from the index rather than the entire niche?
              Stop making up strawmen. No one said anything about Google removing sites in that context. You first brought that up with your shoes example and I mentioned JC penney there was never anything about removing other sites based on niche or any thing else. I said Google could care less about ranking or not ranking sites (which has nothing to do with deletion You just made that up)that aren't considered quality by them (as an extension of what the public considers quality). Google doesn't even remove ten percent of sites that they consider low quality and drop to page 12 so why would they delete a site just for that reason?

              Fourth, if G didn't think any of the adult niche sites weren't "quality" then why are the major adult sites using Adwords and have been for years?
              LOL. You've never seen sites relegated to 980 in results running adwords? talk about clutching at straws. Whatever man have fun and check out the guy that ranks for affiliate marketing with his High PR and not Profile backlinks. He may teach you a thing or two (if in fact you even know him/her).
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
                Oh look, nothing but circular reasoning and a strawman argument. Just more of the logical fallacies as noted in my first post.

                But, all I have to say about you knowing anything on seo is the following:


                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Okay I am going with Home audio. Three reasons

                A) its a real challenge because its a niche that is dominated by a lot of competition for the base keywords. Lot of amazon and product page results on the front page.
                B) its kind of mainstream enough so that I think more people can relate to it.
                C) sufficiently wide to test another strategy and build out to multiple targeted keywords.

                I will post the base keywords I come up with and the lateral ones that I find give most of the gems. They will be in CSV or excel format. Too many to list out here and I want this to be wide open so everyone can see whats going on. We're under way! (OP updated)

                TIL that amazon product pages and product page results are "real competition".:rolleyes:

                Good luck with your logic, Mike. I'm done with this thread. Let me know when you're able to surpass Amazon product pages.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

                  TIL that amazon product pages and product page results are "real competition".:rolleyes:.
                  LOl. More. More. You are just showing how much you don't know. thats not a product page I was referring to. Look at a serps for once. And no never said it was really competitive because I was going to use a brand new domain without exact match and wasn't going to use any of my existing infrastructure. Kinda left that out didn't you? Was never able to go forward because I got a number of big projects and didn't have the time.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    LOl. More. More. You are just showing how much you don't know. thats not a product page I was referring to. Look at a serps for once. And no never said it was really competitive because I was going to use a brand new domain without exact match and wasn't going to use any of my existing infrastructure. Kinda left that out didn't ya? Was never able to go forward because I got a number of big projects and didn't have the time.
                    Again, that's not difficult competition. I left nothing out, it was a copy/paste of your entire post. You didn't say it was really competitive?

                    Code:
                    A) its a real challenge because its a niche that is dominated by a lot of competition for the base keywords. Lot of amazon and product page results on the front page.
                    So, a niche dominated by a lot of competition is not competitive? If you read again, you'll notice I didn't say "really competitive". I quoted you saying "real competition".

                    If you were worth a darn in SEO, you'd laugh at that competition. Hell, even Jan Roos's WSO was teaching newbies how to outrank such competition with ease for amazon affiliate sites.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

                      Again, that's not difficult competition. I left nothing out,
                      Oh stop the dishonesty man. :rolleyes:

                      A) Here said in the same exact thread and you chose to leave it out

                      Now I know a few SEO types might be thinking that they couldn't be bothered with keywords with less than 10-20,000 + searches but I think thats a mistake for most newbies. When I was starting out I'd rather have gone after ten terms that had a thousand searches each. You need some success sometimes to go on and many times the work reward ratio is just plain better ranking for a number of low competition.search phrases than going after the home run.
                      Could it possible be more better spelled out for you indicating that the chosen serps were not in my mind ultra competitive? No but in your desperation to try and find a chink in the armor you took that quote right out of the context of the thread and skipped that quote.

                      B) Home audio was the NICHE not the keyword serps
                      (you seemingly didn't even bother to read the thread to see what Home audio referred to) and yes Amazon has some CATEGORY pages in that NICHE that ARE strong - not product pages as you allege. and that was not the keyword serps.

                      the whole point of the test was to pick a general niche first and then pick a keyword serp. In your desperation to find an error you clean missed that it was not a reference merely to a serp.

                      Now can we get back on topic? Because if you were worth as much as you think on Seo you would have known better than to make all kinds of false assumptions out of context. Nothing you said has panned out as true.


                      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

                      Really have to head out now. Have a good night.
                      You too man. keep safe and prosperous. Wish you the best.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        or you can go ahead and do the IM SEO industry standard game and show some weak old Serps where you are dominating the top spot.
        Had you been worth your salt, you'd be in the weekly Skype SEO meetups. Those of us ranking for make money online, weight loss, mortgages, and loans will continue to do our thing while you peddle your inferiority complex on WF.

        edit - I forgot, there's also one of us ranking for affiliate marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author InitialEffort
    The thing is people are missing about on the big picture. You need to have a bunch of different types of links. This is generally how I would break it down.

    High PR Links - Blog Comments, Articles, Homepage, Sitewide
    Low PR Links - Profile, Forum Post, Blog Comments, Articles, Social Bookmark, RSS

    There is no magic bullet, but you want to have a diverse link building strategy to survive the different algo updates such as the recent Farmer and Panda changes.

    Yes, paid links continue to dominate SERPs, but you have to realize some of these players are paying big $$$ for these links. More than what most people have in their average budget.
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  • Profile picture of the author clickbumped
    OP, I agree with what you're saying. Contextual linking has driven every page I've worked on to the top of the results, where they remained even through the massive amounts of algo updates. Contextual links are what people do when they like your content...they are natural. Other people don't create profile links in forums for your website...lol. Blog comments work, but in moderation and on the right pages. Home page links = BIG YES. Diversification is good, but it comes with contextual linking and article marketing.

    Just a point. My sites and pages all rank high, and outrank massively authoritative sites...so I must be doing something right.
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    *I am not Scott Blanchard. I just thought this name was cool. =p

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    Really have to head out now. Have a good night.
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Rotzee
      Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

      Really have to head out now. Have a good night.
      What ever happened to the thread where you were going to try and sandbox a new website.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOguymike
    It is absolutely wrong to pay for profile links, however, a small amount of them spread evenly across your secondary layers of backlinks would do very well. By secondary backlinks I mean the links linking back to your website.

    BUT the big issue with this is that social bookmarking is essentially better to link back to your backlinks AS well as wordpress blogs that had been bookmarked and had their rss feeds submitted to a FEW rss submission sites. NOT to mention you'll need article submissions to article directories, which CAN be used to backlink your secondary layers. Sorry if you don't use my terms, as I like to create my own terms on certain topics.

    When doing internet marketing, never spam, do it in small steps.
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    • Profile picture of the author noble
      Originally Posted by SEOguymike View Post

      It is absolutely wrong to pay for profile links, however, a small amount of them spread evenly across your secondary layers of backlinks would do very well. By secondary backlinks I mean the links linking back to your website.

      BUT the big issue with this is that social bookmarking is essentially better to link back to your backlinks AS well as wordpress blogs that had been bookmarked and had their rss feeds submitted to a FEW rss submission sites. NOT to mention you'll need article submissions to article directories, which CAN be used to backlink your secondary layers. Sorry if you don't use my terms, as I like to create my own terms on certain topics.

      When doing internet marketing, never spam, do it in small steps.
      Agreed which is what I've been trying to explain. Dropping a profile link to your site and forgetting about it is about as low quality as it gets. They should be used as a stepping stone in a link wheel/pyramid which they work quite well for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Google recently filed a patent for a method of determining the value of links in different parts of the pages. I wish I could find the link, but I can't and apologize.

    And I agree with Mike Anthony as far as if I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that contextual links will increase in value as time goes on and that profile/comment-type links will decrease in value in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author noble
    I agree with what you're saying in that post. If you look at where I actually offer the profile links they are never just profile packs the main selling point is the established blogs you can write posts on and with the customer feedback I got basically they're just filler to make the package look nicer, I've had more than a few say they don't even bother to use them but over-delivery is the name of the game right. Most people purchase because they want to have a blog on harvard.edu where they can write their own posts, etc.

    Further more my profile backlinks come from sites you'd be suprised have forums, US Govt departments and schools such as stanford, harvard, yale, etc.; a little backlinking to your profile and these can bring some juice.

    I'm in no way saying profile links should be your approach to dominating Google but as of yet I still get good results with them as part of my link pyramids; largely because you can get them on great domains and get your link up in 30 seconds if you use robofill.

    Anyways I'm off to do stuff for a while, sorry about it getting a little heated earlier you seem like a good enough dude; who knows maybe we'll cross paths and do a JV some years down the road
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by noble View Post


      Anyways I'm off to do stuff for a while, sorry about it getting a little heated earlier you seem like a good enough dude; who knows maybe we'll cross paths and do a JV some years down the road
      No problem Noble. As for JVs don't do much of that anymore. Do very little IM outside of SEO these days . Thanks though
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  • Profile picture of the author mmsearch
    Recommendation: Switch almost all your activities to getting contextual backlinks (which usually means link within the content/post of a page but also can be slightly extended to links after content such as blog comments and articles etc)

    Soooo.... How/where do we go about getting getting these types of links?
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    • Profile picture of the author Focused Action
      Originally Posted by mmsearch View Post

      Recommendation: Switch almost all your activities to getting contextual backlinks (which usually means link within the content/post of a page but also can be slightly extended to links after content such as blog comments and articles etc)

      Soooo.... How/where do we go about getting getting these types of links?
      I would also like to know the best way to get these types of links on high PR pages (vs. high PR sites). I think many of us get confused when we realize that we are building links on high PR web properties, but we are actually building tons of links on PR0 sites.

      Do services such as "Build My Rank" provide high pr contextual links?

      Look forward to some guidance.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Nicely put, Google has always mentioned it is constantly in a battle about automation, and it comes as no surprise that these services are being sold to unsuspecting newbies who don't realise they no longer have an edge
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  • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
    It is always tempting to automate things because of how efficient it is.

    But nothing beats hard manual labor. This is true in the online and offline world. Google realizes this. They want to reward those individuals and companies who build themselves up legitimately, and dont rely on link blasts and other methods to obtain high rankings.

    I suggest if you are worried about Google penalizing these backlink strategies that you make sure to begin adding backlinks steadily and manually. Eventually you will see results far greater than any of these cheap blast services.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andre Slater
    This is a real heated battle of SEO Geniuses... I think the reason why people are still doing profile links and such, is because they don't know how to do proper SEO. The SEO field is so massive that it's quickly becoming a topic that there are more theories than facts. It's so big it has it's own language.

    Most people who buy these links don't really know how to get their sites ranked high and the people who know how to get their sites ranked high either:

    1. Have extensive training on it.
    2. Have a ton of money to invest in high quality list.
    3. Or hire SEO people like some of you guys to do it for them.

    I wish someone who knows how to get sites to the 1-3 slots of Google for highly searched keywords would share it with everybody else on the bottom by either:

    1. Make a inexpensive course on the proper way to do it and get results. Key = RESULTS
    2. Break it down in a simple language where everyone can understand it.
    3. Make a software that does it right and don't charge a gazillion dollars.

    I think that if someone did one of those three, then that would not only kill profile links and such, but will kill the SEO marketers that charge a bunch of money to companies to do it for them...
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  • Profile picture of the author presidentleaf
    I've been reading your threads and they've always been very heated and exciting. Who needs Jersey Shore? Thanks for sharing your opinions/insights and I look forward to your future threads.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jack Chase
      Originally Posted by presidentleaf View Post

      I've been reading your threads and they've always been very heated and exciting. Who needs Jersey Shore? Thanks for sharing your opinions/insights and I look forward to your future threads.
      Haha! I love threads like this with a good debate - there is so much to learn from them!
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  • Profile picture of the author HQJonz
    I'm not sure there was much to learn out of the one. Though, yes, entertaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrozlat
    my favorite type of backlinks are automated... google spiders are automated so why can;t my links be?
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  • Profile picture of the author dcrdomains
    Link services or software that blast hundreds or thousands of profile backlinks (such as forum profiles etc) are of very limited value and most of the times are not worth the money and will be worth even less as a long term investment
    I agree, forum profiles aren't worth squat.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4webmaster
    I recently order here and elsewhere package of xrummer, forum profile, pyramid stuff from top warriors showing great testimonies, proofs.... Just salesletter that make you cash out on for SEO benefits, you see what I'm talking about (plenty on WSO...)
    Well here is my honest review.
    My site got from pagerank 7 to 12 (no benefits but worse)
    Now I don't think I can remove these forum profile and will be hard to gain in ranking.
    Spend my money $100+ for getting worse page ranking!
    Please newbies and even expert don't cash your money on these, learn more from other real SEO guys, forum profiles will hurt your ranking, read what Google said.
    I don't want to discredit Warrior here that sell these but being honest can help other.
    Some proofs or testimonials could be real but months before the Panda update. Show proof of after panda update then will see if it really work!

    I just test some Warrior screenshot proof here and surprise the picture showing their site on top of Goog with keyword is no more what you see when typing on google now. So be aware when you see title like: boost your ranking, on top of google, 500+ testimonials.........

    What work is comment/url post on same topic of your website, that looks natural but these site must be real site with PR not just here to farm link profits.

    So forum profile backlinks, comments/url on not same topic pages.... the big NO! NO! NO!

    I don't claim to be an SEO expert but just this post can make me like an SEO expert
    I might be wrong but prove it!
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    • Profile picture of the author hikerguy777
      My opinion...posted this on another thread too.

      Forum links are not dead...if they come from relevant, thriving forums that are in your niche category. Of course, you have to do the other stuff mentioned on this thread too.

      IM is a business, which means getting to know your market and meeting some of their needs. What better way to introduce your services than on forums and blogs that closely match your niche? Have a good site with good content, then link to it. You'll do well.
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      • Profile picture of the author 4webmaster
        Originally Posted by hikerguy777 View Post

        My opinion...posted this on another thread too.

        Forum links are not dead...if they come from relevant, thriving forums that are in your niche category. Of course, you have to do the other stuff mentioned on this thread too.

        IM is a business, which means getting to know your market and meeting some of their needs. What better way to introduce your services than on forums and blogs that closely match your niche? Have a good site with good content, then link to it. You'll do well.
        Never say that forum links are dead, it's even recommended when it's on revelant to your niche but what is dead and even harmful is forum profile.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    There are a lot of logical fallacies in the OP. It should be well-noted that profile backlinks are still useful for ranking for any keyword. Note that I said useful. It'll be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without profile-type links, just as it'd be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without contextual, high PR links. Every link is important.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4webmaster
      Originally Posted by JamesGw View Post

      There are a lot of logical fallacies in the OP. It should be well-noted that profile backlinks are still useful for ranking for any keyword. Note that I said useful. It'll be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without profile-type links, just as it'd be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without contextual, high PR links. Every link is important.
      Here come again, useful to decrease ranking or high ranking?
      Submit proof, blah blah blah is ok but we need proof.
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      • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
        Originally Posted by 4webmaster View Post

        Here come again, useful to decrease ranking or high ranking?
        Submit proof, blah blah blah is ok but we need proof.
        I've ordered blasts on several sites and have seen increases across the board. I'm not talking about going from page 8 to 2 or anything either. I've blasted sites from #9 on page 1 to #2, and they've stayed there consistently.

        It takes a couple months for your links to mature, but I've seen direct benefit from them consistently enough to know that they work. Any massive on or off-site change will affect the way your site ranks. Large quantities of links will normally make your site drop off momentarily and then recover, whereas high PR links seem to have no negative effect early and then a positive one late.

        That said, I've seen both types of links make a site jump around in the rankings.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

          What's the point of this post Mike?

          Don't hate, duplicate!

          I also agree that x-rumer links value is declining.
          Ay mate but that is the point, Duplicate. Look at the serp in the OP. if even sites looking to rank for the term backlink which historically was used to sell profile links are now using aged in context links with real Pr then what should you be duplicating?

          We are on page 2 and no one has addressed that serp. hate what is weak and love what is strong bro .



          Originally Posted by JamesGw View Post

          I've ordered blasts on several sites and have seen increases across the board. I'm not talking about going from page 8 to 2 or anything either. I've blasted sites from #9 on page 1 to #2, and they've stayed there consistently.


          It takes a couple months for your links to mature, but I've seen direct benefit from them consistently enough to know that they work. .
          They work for weak serps - long tail etc - but not by themselves for any good competition. I examine hundreds of serps as I analyze competition month after months for clients and myself. If I ever see a site ranking number one for anything with just profile links it has always been terribly weak competition and a sure sign that I can easily rank on that term. However they also turn out to be terms that don't bring much traffic either.

          paid links services are lack of quality links and i would suggest to do manual link building to build backlinks to your site.
          Should be true but it isn't because in most cases there is no way to determine (outside of link farms and obvious cases) what link is a paid link.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      You are kidding right? Shouldn't you at least look up what a logical fallacy is before using the term?

      As for It'll be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without profile-type links? Wrong. There are many niches where you would be better off not bothering with profile links at all. As for real logical fallacies one is constructing a straw man. The op states point blank

      Now obviously someone has to rank for those terms and links of that kind will always have some effect but if you haven't been watching
      So yeah links have an impact but low quality links shouldn't play a major part in any serp where there is solid competition. Frankly the greatest strength of profile links aren't even in ranking a site directly but pumping up a secondary site that links to your money site.


      Originally Posted by JamesGw View Post

      There are a lot of logical fallacies in the OP. It should be well-noted that profile backlinks are still useful for ranking for any keyword. Note that I said useful. It'll be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without profile-type links, just as it'd be much harder to rank for a particular keyword without contextual, high PR links. Every link is important.
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    What's the point of this post Mike?

    Don't hate, duplicate!

    I also agree that x-rumer links value is declining.
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  • Profile picture of the author jhonsean
    paid links services are lack of quality links and i would suggest to do manual link building to build backlinks to your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I think we have had disagreements in the past, but I have to agree with you here.... I always believed profile links were low quality, and definitely not beneficial in regards to actual traffic. Lately though, they have miniscule effect in my opinion, worse than they used to.
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