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seo domain question

by Law guy
20 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Hey guys, I'm starting out with IM so will be frequenting this goldmine of a forum quite often.

I have a question regarding domain names.

Say for example I'm targeting a phrase 'best tools for drilling' as my primary keyword. Which domain would be more effective for SEO purposes: besttoolsdrilling.com or toolsdrilling.com? Or would besttoolsfordrilling + another word like today/now work better (eg. besttoolsfordrillingtoday.com)?

This is of course assuming that besttoolsfordrilling.com is not available.
#domain #question #seo
  • Profile picture of the author hashbury
    I would go with besttoolsdrilling if you cant get the EMD. However a lot of people will go with "the + besttoolsfordrilling" or something similar.

    I think this really does boil down to personal preference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Law guy
      I take it then that it is not a problem if the domain name becomes a little long-winded, as would be the case with thebesttoolsfordrilling.com?
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    • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
      Originally Posted by hashbury View Post

      I would go with besttoolsdrilling if you cant get the EMD. However a lot of people will go with "the + besttoolsfordrilling" or something similar.

      I think this really does boil down to personal preference.
      The above advice is 100% wrong.

      Only one word domains like keyword.tld and hyphenated domains like keyword1-keyword2.tld have SEO ranking value.

      Having a domain like keyword1keyword2.tld will gain a boost for keyword1keyword2 (basically not a real word) and will not benefit either keyword1 or keyword2 SERPs.

      See SEO Tutorial - Domain Name Optimization for more details.

      David
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      Freelance SEO Consultant
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      • Profile picture of the author Law guy
        Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

        The above advice is 100% wrong.

        Only one word domains like keyword.tld and hyphenated domains like keyword1-keyword2.tld have SEO ranking value.

        Having a domain like keyword1keyword2.tld will gain a boost for keyword1keyword2 (basically not a real word) and will not benefit either keyword1 or keyword2 SERPs.

        David
        Majority of people recommend the opposite of what you are suggesting. Can you back up your claim in any way?
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        • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
          Originally Posted by Law guy View Post

          Majority of people recommend the opposite of what you are suggesting. Can you back up your claim in any way?
          10 years of SEO testing, I've setup the SEO tests and confirmed this (tests still running and still point to what I said above).

          Quick example (not one of my tests as I don't post my SEO tests as they'll be ruined) this domain Recycled Art

          You are making the assumption Google can pull words from a string of text like

          recycleforthearts.org

          Does this domain break down to

          "recycle for the arts"
          "recycle fort hearts"
          "re cycle for the arts"

          Or something else?

          Do those as Google searches and explain why the domain isn't found for them all?

          There's been links to that domain with anchor text "recycle for the arts" and anchor text is enough to have a domain found for a search.

          If Google assumed a domain like the one above had words within it and used obvious words, it would have to use all obvious words. So that domain should have a boost for all these words:

          recycle for the arts re cycle fort he arts rec art heart hear forth

          David
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          Freelance SEO Consultant
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      • Profile picture of the author frogman
        Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

        The above advice is 100% wrong.

        Only one word domains like keyword.tld and hyphenated domains like keyword1-keyword2.tld have SEO ranking value.

        Having a domain like keyword1keyword2.tld will gain a boost for keyword1keyword2 (basically not a real word) and will not benefit either keyword1 or keyword2 SERPs.

        See SEO Tutorial – Domain Name Optimization for more details.

        David
        So your're saying Google needs a hyphen between words to make sense of them?
        Don't think so. Type the keyword phrase (without spaces) into G and you will see if G is capable of figuring it out.

        Back to OP question, I'd drop the stop words from the domain name, if possible.
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        • Profile picture of the author Law guy
          Originally Posted by frogman View Post

          So your're saying Google needs a hyphen between words to make sense of them?
          Don't think so. Type the keyword phrase (without spaces) into G and you will see if G is capable of figuring it out.

          Back to OP question, I'd drop the stop words from the domain name, if possible.
          What do you mean by stop words? Like best/for?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    Tell you what, show me a non-hyphenated domain where the keywords are even found in Google where the site's content doesn't use those words and there's no backlinks using the words as anchor text.

    That would be a domain like chickengiblets.com and the keywords Chicken and Giblets isn't used in the content, anchor text etc... but the domain can be found for the search Chicken Giblets or derivatives: A derivative would be for an easy phrase within the content plus Chicken Giblets. So in the content was optimised for "Cooking Tips" searching for

    Cooking Tips Chicken Giblets

    Should find the domain IF Google can distinguish keywords that aren't hyphenated.

    you can also use the site: search

    site:http://chickengiblets.com/ chicken giblets

    Again a test like this is only valid if the keywords are not used in the content and not used as anchor text for backlinks.

    I've done this SEO test and the site won't be found.

    BTW you can also try this test on filenames, name a page like chickengiblets.html and if you don't add those keywords it won't be found for that search.

    David
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    Freelance SEO Consultant
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      See what you think about a new thread I started:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...md-killer.html

      Paul
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      If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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    • Profile picture of the author frogman
      Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

      Tell you what, show me a non-hyphenated domain where the keywords are even found in Google where the site's content doesn't use those words and there's no backlinks using the words as anchor text.

      That would be a domain like chickengiblets.com and the keywords Chicken and Giblets isn't used in the content, anchor text etc...
      Why would you have a domain and then NOT have the main keywords on the page? If I was trying to rank the site chickengiblets.com for the keyword phrase chicken giblets, of course I would have that phrase on the page.

      Go to G and search for chickengiblets. The results are all about chicken giblets (with a space).
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
        Originally Posted by frogman View Post

        Why would you have a domain and then NOT have the main keywords on the page? If I was trying to rank the site chickengiblets.com for the keyword phrase chicken giblets, of course I would have that phrase on the page.

        Go to G and search for chickengiblets. The results are all about chicken giblets (with a space).
        It's an SEO test, it's how you test something by removing other variables.

        If you have a domain that the content and backlinks doesn't use the phrase and the domain is found for a phrase that's ONLY in the domain name it leaves the domain name as the ranking factor.

        Set the test up correctly and we have only one variable to test.

        It's basic scientific research (studied science at Uni, planned to be a research scientist).

        Obviously in the real world you don't build a site and not use the phrase you want to rank for!

        Been testing this sort of stuff for 10 years and can guarantee you a non hyphenated domain name (unless it's a one word domain name) has no SEO value, SEO wise you might as well have the domain dfdgjdfgjfdgjlf.com.

        As others have said Google (via Matt Cutts) has said they are reducing the benefit of the domain name (and file names), but that does not mean it has no value at all, just less than previously.

        David
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        Freelance SEO Consultant
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        • Profile picture of the author hashbury
          Originally Posted by frogman View Post

          Why would you have a domain and then NOT have the main keywords on the page? If I was trying to rank the site chickengiblets.com for the keyword phrase chicken giblets, of course I would have that phrase on the page.
          This is very true in the real world.

          Originally Posted by strategic seo services View Post

          This is true. Although the keyword in the domain name is still important, it isn't given as much weight as it used to.
          I dont agree with you on forum links but I do agree with you on this.

          Originally Posted by Stalliontheme View Post

          It's an SEO test, it's how you test something by removing other variables.

          If you have a domain that the content and backlinks doesn't use the phrase and the domain is found for a phrase that's ONLY in the domain name it leaves the domain name as the ranking factor.

          Set the test up correctly and we have only one variable to test.
          You do make a few good points that I do agree with you on, but your research is flawed.
          Like frogman stated no one is going to buy an EMD or keyword rich domain and put non related content on it. To do proper research you need to have relevant content on 2 different domain names. One EMD and one that has nothing to do with the EMD at all. Or use 3 domains and have one using the hyphens.

          You would need to use either the same content or spin the content execpt the keywords in it. Then get some backlinks from the exact same sources.

          Then see what sites rank better. The bottom line is that you are doing research in a way that no one would ever use to build a site, this it makes it not relevant.

          EMD's have always provided the best results for me. I have over 200 domains that are emd's and to be honest if hyphenated domains were easier to rank I would love to use them instead. It would save me tons of time and trouble.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigcat1967
    Matt Cutts says they are "Dialing Down" on Optimized URLs. Google is trying to encourage more branding...
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    <a href="https://changeyourbudget.com/save-money-on-your-water-bill/">How to Lower Your Water Bill</a>

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  • Profile picture of the author shaneparksons
    If you are small time, then you can pick any of those keyword domains you are thinking, but if you are big time, you can actually think of branding your online existence. Think of a cool name that would be known for "best drilling tools" keyword. Like drillaholic.com. You can make use of SEO to force it to rank for best drilling tools and at the same time, employ apply some brand management techniques to get your brand name known to people search for best drilling tools.
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  • Profile picture of the author shoutcheap
    Hi,

    I will go with besttoolsdrilling.com however the domain name yes will help you in your SEO but is not all you can have a domain name like drilling.com and have a good SERP for 'best tools for drilling' what is gonna to determine that is your website keywords content and the anchor links outside your site pointing to your page.

    If you can find a domain name with your keywords short and simple will be better, remember people do not like to type long domain names.

    So keep it short with your main keyword and easy to remember. Then work in your conternt and anchor links.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    Hashbury, you've not understood the testing concept of one variable at a time.

    Your suggested way of testing adds in so many variable the results will be at best suggestive.

    The test I mentioned above (which I've done many times) gives a clear result, hyphenated words in a URL (domain or filename) are part of the ranking of a page in Google. Possible words within a non-hyphenated domain/file name have no SEO value.

    The results are not ambiguous, do the test yourself. Only takes a filename like

    /makemoneyonline.html

    Do not use the words "make money online" within the content, when the page is indexed search for

    site:domain.com make money online unique keyword

    Where unique keyword is a unique keyword (not used on the site anywhere else) used within the content.

    Helps if the test site doesn't have anything to do with make money online (choose another phrase not related to the sites content, ideally the whole search would be unique to that test page).

    This is the best way to setup SEO tests, exclude as many other variables as possible so you are ideally only testing one variable.

    To confirm hyphenated domain and filenames have ranking value same test as above but the filename

    /make-money-online.html

    You will find with the first test the page will not be found with the site: search. On the second test the page will be found with the site: search.

    This tells us Google can't parse the words make money online from the filename makemoneyonline.html but can from make-money-online.html.

    Also try the search for makemoneyonline you will find the first test page will be found for that search, but the second won't. This tells us Google takes the entire text of a filename for ranking even when it's not a real word.

    This gives no indication how important hyphenated keywords are within a domain/file name, just tells you it's a ranking factor.

    This is a basic scientific testing procedure with clear cut results. I've lost count the number of tests like these I've run over a 10 year period, the results are various SEO tutorials like SEO Tutorial and the best WordPress SEO theme available today : Stallion WordPress SEO Theme.

    David
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    Freelance SEO Consultant
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    I see where you are coming from Stallion - as well as from the other folks' perspective.

    I do have one question for you though...how old are the tests you are referring to? Were they done recently - like within the last couple of months?

    I am about to create a new website and I have two domains to choose from. One has two hyphens and is awesome (excet that it has hyphens), and the other is not so great, but has no hyphens. It's in an extremely competitive market, so good domain names are hard to come by.

    My thoughts are that you will not be penalized by the hyphens and that, as someone said above, the domain dial has been turned way down...which would suggest tat concentrating on all the other SEO factors will outweigh any issues with the domain name.

    Allen
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    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO-Dave
    My SEO tests are ongoing, so current (verified when I made the forum posts).

    David
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    Freelance SEO Consultant
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  • Profile picture of the author hireseowriters
    I think I've to agree with Stallion here but I've no 'scientific proof' to what I am saying.

    For a recent client of mine, I've written content for 7 websites and all of them rank in the first or second page of Google. He uses 'product-main-keyword' pattern.

    On the other hand, my own website, Home rank on Google's first page for the term "hire seo writers." (This isn't even a good comparison in terms of SEO strategies as I built this site to offer services to my existing clients and forum marketing).

    One thing I observed is that my client makes it to the top in less than two weeks. What do you guys think of this? Is it the SEO strategy or his domain names?
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