Is It Just Me Or Do Most WSO'S Seem To Be Junk These Days?

57 replies
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Yeah I know, It has the super pumped up sales spiel, the story of a "brand" new straegy that just cannot fail! Wow!

I stopped buying WSO's a fair while ago because I got sick of the crap that was put out, most of it seems like absolute junk. Only written to get you on to their list.

But lately, I thoughy, maybe I am missing out on something, so I've bought a few now and again...only to be disappointed!

What are your thoughts on this, do you think most WSO's give you value?
#days #junk #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Andrew S
    what, blasphemy

    look at my wso idea, its a surefire hit
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    • Profile picture of the author bhuff85
      Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post

      what, blasphemy

      look at my wso idea, its a surefire hit
      Thanks for the laugh man. The sad thing is, it's true - You know it's bad when people are selling WSO's on how to make WSO's that sell more WSO's about creating WSO's.

      You can still find some good products here and there, but some of them are downright garbage. I guess it shows people still want the dream instead of a proven, workable plan.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Banks
        This is why even though I have had a bunch of people ask me to make one I still haven't. I don't want t put my name on some crappy product, if I sell something I want it to be pure gold!

        I figured I would share all my tactics on my blog for free first, then take all the questions and comments from the blog posts to get an idea of what the beginners want to know. Then if I make an e-book it will basically already have been reviewed, edited and refined with the help of 500 other people
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          The word "Junk" is being far too kind.
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  • Profile picture of the author dirtyhair
    exactly! maybe I am just the "sucker" of the IM world! haha, there's one born every minute!
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Another rant against garbage wso's? How about a rant against wso hater rants??? Just b/c the op has trouble differentiating between good wso's and bad ones does not mean the rest of us have the same shortcoming.
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    • Profile picture of the author Avidpoet
      There use to be a time I could spot junk but now every WSO seems to be on the upsell bandwagon which confuses me a little. At that point Im not sure if the wording in the sales letter is pertaining to the one time offer or the upsell.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony Shipp
    Stop buying them. If you can't stop yourself from pulling out your wallet for junk, avoid visiting the wso section.
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    • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
      Originally Posted by tshipp View Post

      Stop buying them. If you can't stop yourself from pulling out your wallet for junk, avoid visiting the wso section.
      Ouch. Rough delivery there...but it's true.

      I suspect WSOs might appear to be junk if you already know what's in them...but what about for the people who are just getting started? Not everyone's ready for advanced stuff...you have to roll over and fart in your crib a few times before you're ready for the Olympics. If you're having a hard time finding stuff that you don't already know...it's time to quit buying and start USING what you know.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulgl
    Millions of people eat at McDonald's.

    Millions of people are fat.

    People have a choice as to the junk they buy.

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

      Millions of people eat at McDonald's.

      Millions of people are fat.

      People have a choice as to the junk they buy.

      Paul
      You know what I hate Paul? I hate it when I keep hitting myself in the throat with a whiffle ball bat. It hurts like hell I can tell you. If there was only a way to make it quit hurting.

      Wait a sec.

      I guess I could STOP repeating the behavior that is hurting me. But that would be too simple of a solution.

      So I'm back to smashing my throat again. If only there was a way to make it stop without actually having to stop it myself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        So I'm back to smashing my throat again. If only there was a way to make it stop without actually having to stop it myself.
        So now we have a rant against those who rant against WSOs. Heres the huge difference that makes the analogy nowhere near good.

        People don't get to see the bat before they buy it. They have to rely on the copy. So the person could buy a bat today that breaks off and hits them in the neck take it back to the store and read the box of another product that says - this bat will never ever break off and hit you in the throat - and guess what it does.

        Now the person out there thinks well there has to be just one on the market that won't and they keep trying to find it . simple. Not stupid on their part.

        I mean sooner or later you do find a good SEO WSO. but like it or not most are pure garbage particularly the info WSOs. I'm not goign to blame the public. I'm going to blame the WSO sellers particularly those that fill their threads with JV inspired "testimonials" (thats why I - although I know you will disagree - don't trust any product or services based on testimonials no matter how glowing and numerous they are - although many are legit I can't tell the difference anymore)

        Most embarrassing example was about two weeks back. It got glowing reviews from a number of well known people here. great SEO Info! Yad yada yada. It was pure trash filled with links just coincidentally :rolleyes: recommending the services of those who filled the first page with testimonials. Not as resources page either - The recommendations were a CORE part of the SEO secrets being sold in the WSO!

        essentially they were getting people to pay for the privilege of reading a thinly veiled ad.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post


        The thing is, I never said a word about it in any of that WSO comments, & a few other members were pissed off (Big time) because they bought the same trashy WSO, partially based on the fact of it being "WSO of the Day"!
        I don't even bother saying anything on the thread anymore. I always kept it tame anyway because you can see sellers angling to get people banned because they critique their WSO (to the moderators credit they don't always get their way)
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I don't even bother saying anything on the thread anymore. I always kept it tame anyway because you can see sellers angling to get people banned because they critique their WSO (to the moderators credit they don't always get their way)

          It is definitely a seller's market.

          Buyers beware.
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        • Profile picture of the author friedman
          I can tell you for a fact the pre-Panda, many of the WSO's were EXTREMELY effective (edu/gov, angela/paul, link wheels, pyramids, articles).

          The game has changed with gaygles Panda. Article blasts now seem to drive ranks down. Spammy profile backlinks don't seem to be very effective now. Comments on blogs actually seem risky (i.e. you might get blacklisted for your domain for comment spam).

          Purchasing high pr backlinks from pages with pr get you a notice in your GWT that you're violating their TOS.

          Since I put the Gaygle plus+1 on my site, the GWT is telling me that my CTR for my most desirable keyword went from 4 % to 11 %.

          I'm taking this as a sign that I need to focus heavily on twitter, fakebook and gaygle plus1 and get as many legitimate clicks, likes and mentions as possible.

          Let's change this thread to a positive and discuss what is working...
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by friedman View Post

            Let's change this thread to a positive and discuss what is working...
            You mentioned high Pr backlinks so I just wanted to mention they still work. The problem with WSOs in general and SEO for the WSO market is they don't care about getting quality. As a result sellers opt for mass tools and numbers or in the case of high PR backlinks mass selling of resources.

            Its not hard for google to see a PR 4 with a hundred links on it with all kinds of different contexts and links to all kinds of sites as being bought. they already partially rank pages based on relevancy. Wonder what happens with their matrix when they hit a page with a hundred different topics?

            If google keeps on improving their algo its goin to come to the point where most Imers will abanon ship because they think $15 worth of seo services should rank them and it will toast them instead.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I don't even bother saying anything on the thread anymore. I always kept it tame anyway because you can see sellers angling to get people banned because they critique their WSO (to the moderators credit they don't always get their way)
          Agreed, & like they say, I learned a $20 lesson & I can go on the rest of my life avoiding any WSO that includes "WSO of the Day" in the WSO thread title.

          A friend of mine is always saying "Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice shame on me!"
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Paul ,If you bought a Big Mac from McD's you would expect a Big Mac after you paid the cashier, not a pile of on a bun. Or at least in the shape of a burger, lol.
        Wait just a second! A Big Mac is not a pile of $hit on a bun?
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        They need to have a better system in place to weed that BS out!

        Paul ,If you bought a Big Mac from McD's you would expect a Big Mac after you paid the cashier, not a pile of on a bun. Or at least in the shape of a burger, lol.
        Well, there are some that would say a big mac is pile of $hit on a bun

        I don't think they can weed them out except a complete ban. And that's
        probably unlikely.

        There could be other safeguards, but doubtful if they ever would do them.
        You buy at your own risk and WF states this implicitly.

        The problem is more related to people not doing a little free research before
        pulling out the ol' wallet. Hasn't Mike Anthony ranted about that before?

        Is there a difference between junk and getting scammed?

        Some things are junk to you, but maybe gold to someone else.

        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author esdavis
          Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

          Is there a difference between junk and getting scammed?

          Some things are junk to you, but maybe gold to someone else.

          Paul
          Well, I'd agree with Paul on this one. Some WSO buyers will benefit from something in a WSO that others will find completely unhelpful. It's all about people's specific knowledge level and what they need at the time.

          You know, I can think of one thing that might help. I've seen this is a few sales letters.

          Have the sales copy include some kind of rating scale for the level of expertise that the WSO will benefit the most from. For example, Newbie, Intermediate, etc.

          Even better would be a short note about who would NOT benefit from the WSO. Or a specific list of topics covered and their skill level needed to use them, so people know that it is mostly things they already know, or things they aren't ready to learn.

          I wonder if that would help.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by paulgl View Post


          The problem is more related to people not doing a little free research before
          pulling out the ol' wallet. Hasn't Mike Anthony ranted about that before?
          Mike Anthony has had a rant about everything. The guy is a tool and should be banned . Always criticizing what works (allegedly). He writes these long old posts that are hard to read. the guy knows nothing about cliff notes and if he ever does a WSO people should be paid to read it.
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          • Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Mike Anthony has had a rant about everything. The guy is a tool and should be banned . Always criticizing what works (allegedly). He writes these long old posts that are hard to read. the guy knows nothing about cliff notes and if he ever does a WSO people should be paid to read it.
            LMAO! It took me a second, but this is too funny Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author timpears
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I don't know If someone gets a kick back for picking "WSO of the Day"?

        I can tell you, that specific WSO was 100% TRASH!
        Your kidding, arn't you? You are familiar with the affiiiate program run by WarriorPlus aren't you? Mike Lantz gets that commission if you click on his link and go to the WSO of the day. Kick back, commission, call it what you will, but a payment is made for each successful sale from his traffic.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by timpears View Post

          Your kidding, arn't you? You are familiar with the affiiiate program run by WarriorPlus aren't you? Mike Lantz gets that commission if you click on his link and go to the WSO of the day. Kick back, commission, call it what you will, but a payment is made for each successful sale from his traffic.

          Doesn't matter, it's (WSO of the day) very misleading to a buyer here on WF.

          It represents that he/affliates can drive traffic, not the quality of the WSO.

          I've read a lot of WSOs, the WSO I mentioned above was trash! Like I said I kept my cool & didn't post anything negative on the WSO. I knew I would get flamed by the buddy system.

          However other buyers did post negative comments, so I know it wasn't a case of "This WSO just wasn't for me". It was pure junk!

          I'm out around $20, no biggie, plus I learned to avoid anything that includes "WSO of the Day". No wonder they get so many sales, it's very misleading to anyone not involved in the affliate program.

          Like I said, I learned my lesson, all is good.
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          • Profile picture of the author timpears
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Doesn't matter, it's (WSO of the day) very misleading to a buyer here on WF.
            I know how you feel, and believe me, I used to think that this was going to show me the best WSOs of the bunch. Until I realized that Warrior Plus is not a part of Warrior Forum, it is Mike's business. Alan fully supports it and has considered making it a requirement that WSOs use WSO Pro to list a WSO.

            But the WSO of the day is just a way for Mike to monetize his WarriorPlus site, through the commissions he earns. I don't really know the criteria he uses to choose, but you can bet it involves finances. Mike is a business man. And WSO of the Day is just like any review site. They want you to click the link and go to the page and buy, so they earn a commission.

            Cold hard facts of life my friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Miranda
    If you buy a WSO and pickup some 'tips' then they are not junk. Too often people are creating WSOs that not next to nothing about the subject to make a profit. What happens is these WSOs don't make the customer a dime. This happens way too much.... A lot of so called 'methods' worked at one time but when the customer tries to take action on them results are non-existent.
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  • Profile picture of the author vandecarr
    I purchased over so many WSO's that are nothing more than someones ideas and they have obviously never been fully tested...

    What I do is actually try out everything I buy for an alotted time and then make a decision...

    Recently, I have requested 5 refunds for some serious dung...

    On the other hand, I have also got a couple of jems from seoslayer and Kevin Riley...

    Outside of those two guys, I've just wasted a lot of time & money...
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  • Profile picture of the author JimMichael
    I agree. most are junk.
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  • Profile picture of the author webladder
    I've been reading through a few different WSO's and I keep thinking to myself, "What a great commercial for Billy Mays to pitch." But, some of them I think are worth checking out.
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  • Profile picture of the author esdavis
    I have to say I agree with yukon, MikeFriedman, and Mike Anthony. It's hard to sift through all the WSOs for nuggets. Between the sales copy (emphasis on "sales") and the testimonials, it's hard to tell what is really good without buying.

    And it is true that some sellers are protective of their WSOs. So like MikeFriedman said, buyers beware. I have tried to use comments and testimonials as a line on a good one, but that technique doesn't seem to be working very well anymore.

    vandecarr has a good point about trying and then asking for a refund for poor stuff. The problem is that Paypal is cracking down on sellers, and their refund rate is definitely considered as a factor in determining a "good Paypal seller." So the WSO sellers are getting nervous about doing refunds.

    That unfortunately will hurt the whole WSO process. At some point, WSO sellers may restrict or stop offering refunds, which makes it a lot harder for us to justify "buy and try" purchases.

    Hopefully Paypal will settle down soon. In the meantime, I'm trying to think of something positive to say about WSOs, as friedman suggests.

    Umm. Hmm. Having trouble here. :-)

    How about this? I'm thinking of going back to the route of researching good content on the forum and in the search engines rather than buying WSOs all the time. I've liked doing WSOs because even a few nuggets for $10-$20 seems useful. And a big time savings to not "learn it for myself".

    But for me, everything is video now, and videos aren't time savers for me. I read fast, and it allows me to find the tidbits I need. I can do a 50-min-video transcript - even a badly done one - far faster than listening to the video. I find listening to 30-60 min videos to be an awful lot of time used up for 2-3 tips. So maybe doing my own research where I can "read" will fit me better. In today's video world, I'm sure that's consider heresy somewhere.

    But the best lessons I've ever had - here or elsewhere - have offered more than one medium for learning, so that everyone's style of learning can be addressed. I don't see that happening here very often. I guess it's faster to shoot video.

    What do you guys think? Should we revert to the model of finding our own good information online? Or should we keep reading WSO sales copy day in and day out to find the "hopefully" good ones?

    One positive thing in all this:
    I think of the last 10 or so I've bought, the software ones have had the most benefit. They are often customized little products designed to serve the need of the creator for performing the task, and they are generally a good "single-purpose" tool. That can have a lot of value in saved time in procedures compared to off-the-shelf do-it-all software.
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  • Profile picture of the author imakealotofsales
    esdavis---You make some good points and on that note I had a thought. Wouldn't it be cool if this forum could be segmented into groups. Like newbie, novice, medium, pro, expert, rockstar lol

    This way a person wouldn't have to "adjust" their WSO to fit all skill levels, it would simply be placed where the shoe fits. Really, this is all a double edged sword to know who's MORE skilled or less skilled. Maybe some surveys should be posted to see exactly what people were longing for in a good WSO?

    I wonder if many WSO buyers tend to be the same people? If this were the case they are going to be harder to please and impress then some newbie hot off a Google search that spotted a Warrior link for the first time.

    They come in fresh while die hard warriors are hard to impress. I'm considering a WSO myself which would be the first. I believe strongly in under promising and OVER delivering.I don't do fake scarcity and tons of upsells.

    Not sure what the perfect answer is, but I DO agree that one mans' "junk" WSO is gold to somebody who's not as well schooled in IM or offline marketing. Maybe this thread will spur some great ideas.

    My 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author Natlex
    Some WSO's are good, a lot are junk and rehashed material. Of course, you might like those if you are new to IM. Honestly, I do not think the quality changed at all, it's just over time you will encounter more WSO's that have stuff you already know if you keep on buying them.
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  • I won't agree that WSOs are junk! At last you have learned by paying 20 or $30 that WSOs are junk!! I managed to get 1 WSO and it was complete video tutorial and easy to learn. So, worth paying in the end. Although, the techniques I already knew, but I never applied. However, the catchy sales pitch like "My Newbie Student Makes $xxxx in three Weeks". Ask yourself a question, why don't they try this method and expand business rather selling junk!

    As I can see many replies in favour and against WSOs. So, it depends what you get for the money you paid. By saying ALL ARE JUNK, you are putting people bread and butter at stake!!
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  • Profile picture of the author warrich
    Yes I agree with you, nowadays people are just trying to fool others and telling "specially made for newbies wso"..
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  • Profile picture of the author intelinside
    I would agree with OP's statement as WSO's are becoming more junk than before. Especially the 'WSO of the day' needs a tuning. It should include a review system where the purchasers can rate them and based on that feedback, it is added to that section along with other existing parameters.

    At the same time, these Junk WSO's may be junk for more experienced IMers but for newbies, it could be a gold mine ! So a review/rating system will help to weed out the junk stuff.
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  • I haven't picked up very many WSOs, but from my experience I would say that I've been satisfied about 50% of the time. Usually I won't buy a WSO that is more than $20, so I'm never too bummed if it is a dud.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoePNY
    It's a hit or miss for me and every now and then I'll pick up a new strategy or two. Although, I picked up a WSO recently that was great. It has a great offline method that I haven't seen before.

    It sure is better to pay $7 bucks for a WSO then $67 or $97 for some of the stuff that is out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author RodneyGaylor
    If you are selective about your WSO purchases you can find some absolute gems out there... But if you are buying crap that promises the moon and then proceeds to moon you AND your lost cash... well... caveat emptor! :~))
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  • Profile picture of the author gekko2.0
    As said before its a sellers market, there are tons of desperate buyers looking for anything that will help them earn a few extra dollars and plenty of people willing to take advantage of that fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author qwat
    Quite a few WSO's are marketed in a way that makes the idea seem new or unique, when in reality it is the same old recycled information we've seen already.
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    • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
      There are always Diamonds in the rough. I've recently purchased some very good WSO's. It's the price you pay for Education, just like a doctor, attorney, tradesman, etc...

      I spent over $300 this week alone. :rolleyes:

      Richard

      P.S. I try and buy a WSO that has a good Guarantee so if I feel it was marketed incorrectly I'll ask for a refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    I think a lot of people would really appreciate some honest feedback in the WSO threads. There are very few real reviews from the threads I've read: it is more of a case of giving raps for a good idea than a critical look at the product and what it teaches for the price.

    The WSO section seems to thrive on impulse so the excitment can cloud clear judgement. All I can suggest is people focus on finding the best product for what they need to learn (or achieve) rather than looking for a cool deal. When the offer doesn't deliver what it promises then jump in and let other forum members know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Surely the affiliate side of things which has taken off is causing some of the excessive vague positive review issues. If you were promoting a WSO to your list for a commission, wouldn't it be wise to have you saying how great the product is in the thread?
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Probably the biggest hit is that people see something on the WF
      and think it must be great. What do you do? Make people check
      off a box that they have read the warnings given?

      Mike Anthony, I should have been read:
      The problem is more related to people not doing a little free research before
      pulling out the ol' wallet. Hasn't Mike Anthony duly noted that before?

      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      The WSO section seems to thrive on impulse so the excitement can cloud clear judgement.
      I wonder where the fault of that lies

      The WF thrives on an overall feeling that getting rich is just one magical step away.

      The bottom line for me is, if 100 products are listed, how do we know that 51 or
      more are not worth it?

      Consider this:

      A product says it can increase your earnings by over $50 a day. You buy it
      for $100. You manage to to see only $5 a day increase. What is your
      judgment of the product? Can you call it a scam? Junk? Not worth it?

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

        Mike Anthony, I should have been read:
        The problem is more related to people not doing a little free research before
        pulling out the ol' wallet. Hasn't Mike Anthony duly noted that before?
        rant was fine Paul. You think I don't know I rant? Plus it gave me an opportunity to poke fun at myself. However I got two thanks and I can't figure out if they got the joke or were just agreeing that I should be banned.

        Probably the latter.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I've never bought anything in my life that suggested a dollar amount that could be made.

    I'm not here to say all WSOs are bad, because I know that's not true, I've bought a few that were full of great content.

    No matter good or bad, all WSOs are a 50/50 gamble since you can't see the product before you buy. You can't research something that you can't see, the best that can be done is research the WSO author, or sales page (copy & paste, etc...).

    Just know that a lot of members stick together & hype up each others products (WSOs), has nothing to do with quality, it's all about sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Gehr
    If you're looking for WSOs with value and that will help you in either your education or a boost to your already existing successes, take some time to read the reviews, ask questions of other warriors who have purchased the product. At that point you can make a decision as to whether or not it's worth purchasing for yourself.

    Maybe you already do this, but if not, and you're hasty or caught up in the hype fest, then you'll buy anything that comes along. Doing your due diligence is a process I highly recommend, as it brings your decision to purchase through a set of filters and if the boxes aren't ticked--then reject it.

    Furthermore, most warriors are quite fair in that if you are not satisfied, a refund is offered and honored.

    There are a lot of good products from a lot of good people who are willing to take time to explain things, expound on any aspect that may not be clear to you, and, from my own personal experience, most warriors are very generous and upfront with information and help.

    All that to say, although I acknowledge that there can sometimes be repetitive or lesser value WSOs, in general I feel that it all comes down to you knowing what you buy before you buy it instead of buying a product to find out what it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
      Originally Posted by Peter Gehr View Post

      Furthermore, most warriors are quite fair in that if you are not satisfied, a refund is offered and honored.
      50% true.

      There was a thread recently from a WSO seller who was very PO'd off that someone requested a refund on his $7 WSO within a couple minutes of downloading it. This created a thread full of angst toward people who refund, and recommendations to blacklist anyone who requests a refund. This also led to suggestions about creating a "list" whereby any WSO seller can add the info to this master list so that every WSO seller who opts into it can pre-emptively block refunders.

      I've never bought a WSO. I've been given two WSOs to review, and provided reviews of both. No payment or favour of any kind was asked. I reviewed both before that thread came up, and in fairness to the WSO sellers I reviewed for, neither commented in that thread.

      However, after reading that thread, and knowing that about 2-6% of all digital downloaders will refund (the price of doing business and it isn't unique to IM) for whatever reason (legit or otherwise), I'm not buying a WSO from anyone. Nor doing any more reviews.

      A 100% satisfaction, no hassles guarantee with a hidden policy such as this is not what the policy claims to be. It may be in a literal sense, but not from the spirit of "good faith" such a guarantee implies.

      A valid comparison is to my favourite electronics store that offers a 30 day no questions, no hassles, cash refund policy. I buy there because they are true to their word: out of the many products I've bought there over a 10 year period, I've had to return 2 of them. They are a fraction of the money I've spent there. If the unspoken part of the policy was that I'd be banned from the store if I had to take them up their guarantee, not only would they have lost my repeat business (which in large part is do to the reassurance the guarantee gives), but they never would have gotten any of my business to begin with.

      It amazes me that while a big box chain can eat this on a physical product that is going to require expense on repackaging/returns, they're able to see the big picture and simply eat this as a cost of doing business because they know that their REAL guarantee will more than offset the modest expense incurred through the handful of refunds issued. Yet WSO sellers, who incur no expense, and have the same refund rate as every other niche in the digital download game, resort to these underhanded tactics. And it is underhanded - no matter how you parse it. If they stated that along with their guarantee, then fine - that's transparent and the person who opts to download based on this "guarantee" is well aware then of exactly what it entails. Until then, its an underhanded practice that while not dishonest, is not transparent and is very much at odds with the how they bill their guarantee.

      And the WSO sellers who don't like that can flame away because:

      a) I'm not in your niche and have no interest in getting into it. The IM niche today is very reminiscent to me of the dotcom bubble just before it popped.

      b) I've dealt with more face to face in my life to be cowed by someone who will resort to flaming because they don't like my point of view. Having dealt with death threats from psychopaths in my prior line of work, forum attacks are about as intimidating as a loose hamster.

      -Spyder
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      • Profile picture of the author paulgl
        How about this gem:
        http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ccounts-2.html

        I'll say it: Don't waste your money on that thing.

        Paul
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        If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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      • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
        Originally Posted by Spyder77 View Post

        50% true.

        I'll defend the other 50%

        There was a thread recently from a WSO seller who was very PO'd off that someone requested a refund on his $7 WSO within a couple minutes of downloading it. This created a thread full of angst toward people who refund, and recommendations to blacklist anyone who requests a refund. This also led to suggestions about creating a "list" whereby any WSO seller can add the info to this master list so that every WSO seller who opts into it can pre-emptively block refunders.

        That seller will soon be out of the WSO business, that's how the marketplace works.

        I've never bought a WSO. I've been given two WSOs to review, and provided reviews of both. No payment or favour of any kind was asked. I reviewed both before that thread came up, and in fairness to the WSO sellers I reviewed for, neither commented in that thread.

        However, after reading that thread, and knowing that about 2-6% of all digital downloaders will refund (the price of doing business and it isn't unique to IM) for whatever reason (legit or otherwise), I'm not buying a WSO from anyone. Nor doing any more reviews.

        There's a saying in Marketing "speed is money." I'm willing to spend money to ramp up my knowledge vs trying to learn it on my own. Don't tell me you can find it all here, cuase that ain't true.

        A 100% satisfaction, no hassles guarantee with a hidden policy such as this is not what the policy claims to be. It may be in a literal sense, but not from the spirit of "good faith" such a guarantee implies.

        We can agree on this. I think the WSO section should make it mandatory for most products (maybe not services) to have a "30 Day No Questions asked refund Guarantee. I offer 60 Days No Questions asked and I have no problems. Most buyers are honest and will not try and take advantage of sellers. I normally will not buy a WSO unless it has a stong refund policy.

        A valid comparison is to my favourite electronics store that offers a 30 day no questions, no hassles, cash refund policy. I buy there because they are true to their word: out of the many products I've bought there over a 10 year period, I've had to return 2 of them. They are a fraction of the money I've spent there. If the unspoken part of the policy was that I'd be banned from the store if I had to take them up their guarantee, not only would they have lost my repeat business (which in large part is do to the reassurance the guarantee gives), but they never would have gotten any of my business to begin with.

        Funny you should mention that, but a few Fortune 1000 companies have now started doing just this. Not banned from the store, but they limit refunds. If a buyer asked me for 2 or more refunds then I too would block them from any more purchases.

        It amazes me that while a big box chain can eat this on a physical product that is going to require expense on repackaging/returns, they're able to see the big picture and simply eat this as a cost of doing business because they know that their REAL guarantee will more than offset the modest expense incurred through the handful of refunds issued.

        That's not always the case. Many stores are now asking for a 15%, 20%, and 30% restocking fee.

        Yet WSO sellers, who incur no expense, and have the same refund rate as every other niche in the digital download game, resort to these underhanded tactics.

        That's not true either.

        And it is underhanded - no matter how you parse it. If they stated that along with their guarantee, then fine - that's transparent and the person who opts to download based on this "guarantee" is well aware then of exactly what it entails. Until then, its an underhanded practice that while not dishonest, is not transparent and is very much at odds with the how they bill their guarantee.

        I agree.

        And the WSO sellers who don't like that can flame away because:

        a) I'm not in your niche and have no interest in getting into it. The IM niche today is very reminiscent to me of the dotcom bubble just before it popped.

        b) I've dealt with more face to face in my life to be cowed by someone who will resort to flaming because they don't like my point of view. Having dealt with death threats from psychopaths in my prior line of work, forum attacks are about as intimidating as a loose hamster.

        -Spyder
        Anwers above in Red. Sorry to see you've limited your mindset to NEVER purchasing a WSO. I can assure everyone reading this there are MANY fine WSO's from sellers who care, I'm one of them.

        My leaning and income curve have been rapidly advanced by learning from others.

        Richard
        Signature
        Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

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        • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
          Originally Posted by High Horsepower View Post

          Anwers above in Red. Sorry to see you've limited your mindset to NEVER purchasing a WSO. I can assure everyone reading this there are MANY fine WSO's from sellers who care, I'm one of them.

          My leaning and income curve have been rapidly advanced by learning from others.

          Richard
          Your reply is fair enough and I can see your point of view. What turned me off was this idea that sprung up - based on one WSO's post about being pissed off because one person asked for his money back on a $7 WSO - was the tone adopted by those involved in the discussion (almost all WSO sellers) that culminated in this idea of a secret list where anyone seller can add someone who actually uses their money back guarantee, to a master blacklist that prevents them from buying another WSO.

          That is very anti-free market, very monopolistic trending, and if that's how they treat someone who, for whatever reason, uses the guarantee they offer, then it isn't worth spit. None of them mention that anywhere in their ad copy, instead they stress their "no hassles, 100% satisfaction or money back."

          I can understand why someone wouldn't want to essentially give their product away to a serial refunder. At the same time, not everyone who requests a refund - and I don't need to be a WSO seller or buyer to realize this - is doing so for the purposes of getting something for nothing. Yet a policy like this, and especially the talk of a "secret master blacklist," really doesn't do anything to encourage anyone to read a guarantee as meaning jack squat - other than as a pure sales tool that has the added advantage of allowing people to back up garbage products with a fake guarantee where they can then tell the person "yup, you want your money back, no problem, but you'll never buy another WSO from anyone as you're blacklisted." It just tars everyone with the same brush and everyone pays the same price because of a few dickheads who buy something they never intend to pay for.

          I'm not doing business with people who believe that penalizing everyone while wrapping their product around a "guarantee" which, when this is the cost of it, is really total BS and not sound marketing. It also makes me think their product is more likely to be crap.

          Fortunately the WF is much greater than the WSO forum, which is just one part of it and never the part that drew me here. So in the end its no loss to me, and the WSO I might have bought over the next few months isn't going to be any loss to the WSO segment of the WF.

          That's their idea of business, mine is very different, and that's really all there is to it.

          You make fair points, but just watching the interplay in that thread really soured me from WSOs. I bit my tongue, but after seeing so many threads like this lately, its clear I'm not the only one who sees some flaws there. The getting blacklisted because you bought one of the crappy ones and actually had the nerve to ask for your money back when it turned out to be nothing but hype (my reservation that has kept me from buying) is just the latest twist to ice the cake.

          -Sypder
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          • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
            Spyder77,

            Don't let one idiot WSO seller stop you from taking advantage of learning.

            There are always bad apples in anything we do in life. If someone treated me like that I would dispute my refund with PP and never deal with that person again.

            Like every marketplace, a Bad WSO seller will get a reputation very fast, and like you, members will be turned off from these idiots.

            I bought the "WSO of the Day" a few hours ago, it's very good: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...1-39-days.html (non affiliate link)

            I never buy the WSO of the Day, but this one is worthy.

            It's about SEO, well worth the $9.90 he's asking for it. I left a review (which I rarely do). There are many good people here on the WF who not only contribute to the daily threads but they also do WSO's.

            I have spent thousands on WSO's over the last year, I can assure you it increased my learning curve, increased my income, and allowed me a better lifestyle.

            Members need to research a WSO seller before they buy. If I don't know the poster I will research their post and see what they contribute. I think it's fairly easy to see who cares and who doens't.

            Like I stated before, I can't remember when I purchased a WSO without a Guarantee. I've asked for very few refunds, probably less than 3%.

            Don't limit yourself, in fact here is another WSO I'm buying in 5 minutes: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...void-them.html (non affiliate link)

            This guy Istvan is considered the WordPress guru around here, you're darn right I'm paying this guy $12 to get his knowledge of 7 years of being a WP expert.

            Richard
            Signature
            Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

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            • Profile picture of the author Spyder77
              Point well taken Richard, and a case of my reacting with a nuke where a tactical missile would be in my best interest. Your suggestions are good ones and they come back to doing due diligence before buying by using the seller's posting history to get a feeling for what he'll likely be providing and how he (or she) regards and treats their customers.

              That particular thread I referred to in an earlier post was really off putting, and I don't think those who contributed in it realized just how much it was. The irony was that one WSO seller is someone, that thread aside, I had developed a respect for and an interest in her WSO. I may still buy it at some point, but it'll be after thinking it over more carefully than I would have otherwise - and which may not be a bad thing as any WSO should be researched carefully rather than relying on ad copy and reviews alone.

              And its definitely not in my best interests (nor fair to them) to be swayed against all WSOs based on remarks made from a small minority of WSO sellers.

              Thanks for taking the time to point out valid points I'd overlooked. I agree with what you've written and those are good guidelines I'll use for selecting which WSOs to buy.

              -Spyder

              Originally Posted by High Horsepower View Post

              Spyder77,

              Don't let one idiot WSO seller stop you from taking advantage of learning.

              There are always bad apples in anything we do in life. If someone treated me like that I would dispute my refund with PP and never deal with that person again.

              Like every marketplace, a Bad WSO seller will get a reputation very fast, and like you, members will be turned off from these idiots.

              I bought the "WSO of the Day" a few hours ago, it's very good: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...1-39-days.html (non affiliate link)

              I never buy the WSO of the Day, but this one is worthy.

              It's about SEO, well worth the $9.90 he's asking for it. I left a review (which I rarely do). There are many good people here on the WF who not only contribute to the daily threads but they also do WSO's.

              I have spent thousands on WSO's over the last year, I can assure you it increased my learning curve, increased my income, and allowed me a better lifestyle.

              Members need to research a WSO seller before they buy. If I don't know the poster I will research their post and see what they contribute. I think it's fairly easy to see who cares and who doens't.

              Like I stated before, I can't remember when I purchased a WSO without a Guarantee. I've asked for very few refunds, probably less than 3%.

              Don't limit yourself, in fact here is another WSO I'm buying in 5 minutes: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...void-them.html (non affiliate link)

              This guy Istvan is considered the WordPress guru around here, you're darn right I'm paying this guy $12 to get his knowledge of 7 years of being a WP expert.

              Richard
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Spyder77 View Post

        This also led to suggestions about creating a "list" whereby any WSO seller can add the info to this master list so that every WSO seller who opts into it can pre-emptively block refunders.
        Any seller that implements such a list can go fly a kite. he won't be keeping or getting my money regardless. I don't care if its a $4 product -you lie to me in your sales copy and I am asking and getting my money back.

        However

        I don't bother much with posting my request in the offer thread. In some of the SEO WSos the seller is popular because he has made JV relationships with people to leverage their "testimonials". ranting or complaining isn't going to do anything but have the same people jump back in to tell you how wrong you are are and add more testimonials. Plus the sheep are not going to believe their SEO hero doesn't know what they are talking about so its pointless.

        Request your refund by PM and get your money back. You will get it because they don't want the possibility of dealing with your post in their sales thread and leave it there.

        and heres a tip. Look for the WSOs that are NOT as popular. A lot of the time they are the ones that spent time working on their product rather than lining up JVs that make their next WSO launch look like the greatest secret to blow up on WF.
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  • Profile picture of the author jerytohn
    I believe it's just you
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    Good Day People! This is my fav search engine: Google

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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Unfortunately so many people are quick to jump on the "Get rich quick" schemes with no regard that they are just rehashing the same old stuff, a pity for their buyers
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  • Profile picture of the author dark witness
    For me personally I find the most value I get from WSO's now is in the form of software.

    I would not say they are all junk, but it's getting to the point that the big dogs talk about how easy it is to make a wso and they show the flashy income sheet and all the newbies run off to make their own wso. Are we really going to get the high level of quality ? ... Na, I don't think so.

    What I find is that most wso's are about the same subjects but a lot of them point to different resources and thats where the money is for me.

    The other big plus is the software side. There are some really great WP themes, plugins and other softwares that are more then worth the price. That is what I look out for now.

    Most of the so called 10k a month system, 3k a week, 2k a day and the rest I just don't find useful so I have stopped buying them. Many I have tried to get to work but not seen the same sort of results.

    Buy the ones that relate to what you are interested in.
    take them apart and add the useful info into your business model.

    put the info into practice and leave the rest alone..

    Thats what I do now.
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