What's Google Problem?

John Romaine

13 years ago

Why do you have an edit button pointing to seo chat in your post?????

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Newman8r

13 years ago

Sometimes new pages will get a short term boost so google can see how they perform (bounce rate, etc). If you're not doing link building to the new articles then they'll often drop down.

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Anna Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Newman8r

Sometimes new pages will get a short term boost so google can see how they perform (bounce rate, etc). If you're not doing link building to the new articles then they'll often drop down.

Well i would be be agreeing to you as well. Some time your website is able to get a short term boast in order to get rank with in the search engine. If your website fail to get the desired traffic and stuff surely it would be getting ruled out of the search engine.

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playa4thee 13 years ago

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Why do you have an edit button pointing to seo chat in your post?????

Don't know how that got there... lol.. Thanks for pointing that out...
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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Google the term "QDF".

You will find your answer there.

And if you want the pages to stay, they are going to need some backlinks. I saw nothing mentioned in your post about building any backlinks to your posts.

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Google the term "QDF".

You will find your answer there.

And if you want the pages to stay, they are going to need some backlinks. I saw nothing mentioned in your post about building any backlinks to your posts.

You seem to like blaming all pitfalls on QDF, I think you're over emphasising it here on these forums. Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well.

It ranks highly without backlinking and doesn't slide down the rankings (whichever page I make) just because I don't continually backlink. If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only.

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playa4thee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

my authority site proves this very well.

It ranks highly without backlinking and doesn't slide down the rankings (whichever page I make) just because I don't continually backlink. If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only.

I write unique, well researched articles. In fact when I write something there is usually over 6,000,000 searches on it and I end up in page 4 or 5 in the first week. So I don't understand how some of my pages have lost their positions.
If what you say is correct, then how do you achieve this "Authority Site" Status?

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by playa4thee

I write unique, well researched articles. In fact when I write something there is usually over 6,000,000 searches on it and I end up in page 4 or 5 in the first week. So I don't understand how some of my pages have lost their positions.
If what you say is correct, then how do you achieve this "Authority Site" Status?

Just to let you know I didn't say this applied to you at all.

If only a few of your rankings have dropped from let's say 1st to second or third, this alone can hugely impact your overall traffic. Sites don't always just gain traffic, it's completely natural to get less traffic due to natural ranking fluctuations.

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IM Ash

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

....Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well.

It ranks highly without backlinking and doesn't slide down the rankings (whichever page I make) just because I don't continually backlink. If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only.

You might not realize it but the reason why new pages on your "authority site" ranks and holds rank is because there are backlinks pointing to your new pages - internal links that is.

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eleva8

You might not realize it but the reason why new pages on your "authority site" ranks and holds rank is because there are backlinks pointing to your new pages - internal links that is.

Obviously, but backlinks are not needed directly to a page in order for it to rank, that's the point I was trying to make. Yes, of course you need backlinks at least somewhere on your blog/website/store/whatever if any page is to ever rank well - that's am obvious fact

This is why sites like Amazon have their pages rank first with zero backlinks, because the many hundreds of thousands of backlinks elsewhere are powering the page.

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IM Ash

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

This is why sites like Amazon have their pages rank first with zero backlinks, because the many hundreds of thousands of backlinks elsewhere are powering the page.

Your comment is a complete contradiction! Whether a link pointing to page is internal or external it is still considered a backlink.

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eleva8

Your comment is a complete contradiction! Whether a link pointing to page is internal or external it is still considered a backlink.

I suggest you read what I said...

"Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well."

Notice the word maintain? Do you understand its meaning?

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paulgl 13 years ago

What's google's problem? Nothing.

Google owes you nothing and could care less where
your sites are, if you are making money, or how many
visitors you get.

So, WTF is up with you?

Google is a machine. The sooner you realize that, the better.

Not only do people forget QDF, they also forget google is not
in any way, shape, or form, involved personally with their sites.

QDF is only one part. The rest is building authority and a web
presence. Not all sites need new content, but a lot of sites need
to expand their web presence and authority.

Why people think search results should remain in stone forever has
always been beyond me. Seriously. Do you want the same search
results as last year? Ten years ago? Let alone yesterday! The
internet world is not standing still.

Google's Eric Schmidt just told congress the search algo changes
roughly every 12 hours. Anyone in the know, has already known
that. It's probably not even 12 hours on some days. That's
an average. Probably some days it's every hour.

Thousands (if not millions) of pages of content are created daily.

What is google supposed to do? Ignore it?

Paul
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- ElectronPlumber 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by paulgl
  
  Google is a machine. The sooner you realize that, the better.
  
  Don hit the nail on head here. Look at it from a machine point of view.
  
  First, you get the QDF or "Freshness" bonus. New content gets a boost in order to give it a chance to become the next viral mega hit.
  
  Next, give your home page 100 points as far as the Google algorithm is concerned and think about it. The vast majority of SEO testing shows that the Google algorithm doesn't see 50 links on your page and give each one 2 points. It makes an attempt to decide which are the most important. Links at the top of the page are given more weight than those lower down. Same with your sitemap page. So as internal links sink to the bottom of the page, they are given less weight. So the top title link on the page might get 5 points, the next one down 4, the next one down 3.5, etc. As links travels down your homepage, they starts to decrease in value. If you cross post your stuff to Twitter or Facebook or submit your RSS feed to Technorati or others, the effect is amplified. New content is front and center and gets less link juice as it gets older BECAUSE IT IS DISPLACED BY THE NEWER STUFF.
  
  People who say things like "my authority site stuff ranks forever!" aren't creating new posts daily or weekly. Find me a site which does without backlinking heavily and I'd love to see it.
  
  The Google algorithm is basic math. Do the math! Want your older content to rank? Backlink it!
  
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IM Ash

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

I suggest you read what I said...

"Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well."

Notice the word maintain? Do you understand its meaning?

I do not think you understand that an internal link is a backlink! Remove all the internal links to your new page and then see whether your new page on your "authority site" maintains its ranking.

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lalitbansal004 13 years ago

yes Do Link Building for All your Pages Regularly. and It is quality Link Building.

It surely Boost Any Website Ranking.

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eleva8

I do not think you understand that an internal link is a backlink! Remove all the internal links to your new page and then see whether your new page on your "authority site" maintains its ranking.

I'm fully aware of the importance of internal linking, but as you should of assumed when I was referring to "backlinks" I was talkin of off-site backlinks, so I don't really understand what point you are trying to make? Please enlighten me.

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IM Ash

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

I'm fully aware of the importance of internal linking, but as you should of assumed when I was referring to "backlinks" I was talkin of off-site backlinks, so I don't really understand what point you are trying to make? Please enlighten me.

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

...Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well.

It ranks highly without backlinking and doesn't slide down the rankings (whichever page I make) just because I don't continually backlink. If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only.

You seem to believe that new pages on your "authority site" ranks and maintains rank because of the site's authority status. With any site that has many pages there are going to be internal links that point to new pages that are created assuming ones navigational setup is thorough. And this is the reason why new pages rank of the cuff and maintain ranking. There is more going on under the hood that causes this effect. The wheels on my vehicle may turn because I put my foot on the accelerator but there is actually certain mechanics that are unseen which cause the wheels to turn.

If I can find a new page on your site from another page then that means there is a backlink pointing to that page internally. I can create a 20 page site and have all my pages linked via a sidebar menu and just by linking externally to the homepage the other pages will also experience a boost in rank -- fact!

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eleva8

You seem to believe that new pages on your "authority site" ranks and maintains rank because of the site's authority status. With any site that has many pages there are going to be internal links that point to new pages that are created assuming ones navigational setup is thorough. And this is the reason why new pages rank of the cuff and maintain ranking. There is more going on under the hood that causes this effect. The wheels on my vehicle may turn because I put my foot on the accelerator but there is actually certain mechanics that are unseen which cause the wheels to turn.

If I can find a new page on your site from another page then that means there is a backlink pointing to that page internally. I can create a 20 page site and have all my pages linked via a sidebar menu and just by linking externally to the homepage the other pages will also experience a boost in rank -- fact!

Hi Eleva8,

It's nice to see another person like you, posting here, that seems to understand the fundamentals of how a search engine actually works. There are a few on this board and I think it helps this community a great deal to have you and others jump in and point out what everyone should know if they have a grasp of the fundamentals. I agree with you that a backlink can be from any web document, including pages on your own website.

The most fundamental concepts of SEO is understanding that search engines rank individual pages, not websites. The misguided notion of a "website" ranking is typically what leads to all kinds of hogwash that espoused on this forum. I would go as far to say that "pages" not "websites" are what gains authority, and it is backlinks from authority "pages" that help boost our SERP rankings.

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi Eleva8,

The misguided notion of a "website" ranking is typically what leads to all kinds of hogwash that espoused on this forum. I would go as far to say that "pages" not "websites" are what gains authority, and it is backlinks from authority "pages" that help boost our SERP rankings.

I understand where you're coming from, but what you're saying is if I have an authoritive home page, which leads to all the other pages being authoritive, that I cannot refer to my website as being authoritive?

That analogy seems a bit strange to me.

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

I understand where you're coming from, but what you're saying is if I have an authoritive home page, which leads to all the other pages being authoritive, that I cannot refer to my website as being authoritive?

That analogy seems a bit strange to me.

Hi MaverickUK,

I didn't really mean to be critical of you in particular, but to simply point out that when we use over-generalized terms within the context of a technical discussion that ambiguity leads to a lot misunderstanding.

I agree that one "could" refer to a "website" as an authority site based on the numerous authority pages contained within, but that it would be more precise, and therefor more useful to be extremely specific in the context of a public forum where many folks are trying to learn the specific details.

There have been so many myths that have evolved within this industry fueled, in part by the loose use of terminology. I was hoping to add some clarity to the discussion.

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paulgl

13 years ago

Originally Posted by dburk

The most fundamental concepts of SEO is understanding that search engines rank individual pages, not websites. The misguided notion of a "website" ranking is typically what leads to all kinds of hogwash that espoused on this forum. I would go as far to say that "pages" not "websites" are what gains authority, and it is backlinks from authority "pages" that help boost our SERP rankings.

The only thing I would change to that, is that authority sites feed on themselves.
No outside contact needed. Wikipedia is a classic case that I wish more
people would study. Many internal pages have no PR or backlinks. But
these inner pages rank soley based on the authority of wikipedia.com.
Like Amazon.com. Product pages have zero PR, no backlinks, even created on
the fly...

Granted, it is a product of their beautiful use of internal linking, and I
might add, interlinking with their other sites (same IP BTW). Okay,
you could call those high PR backlinks, but not from out of their
system.

If more people followed the model of wikipedia, they would build authority,
and yes, you can maintain rankings with little or no new external backlinks.

But..(and because)...the beauty of this system, is that it breeds link bait.

Paul

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dburk

13 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

The only thing I would change to that, is that authority sites feed on themselves.
No outside contact needed. Wikipedia is a classic case that I wish more
people would study. Many internal pages have no PR or backlinks. But
these inner pages rank soley based on the authority of wikipedia.com.
Like Amazon.com. Product pages have zero PR, no backlinks, even created on
the fly...

Granted, it is a product of their beautiful use of internal linking, and I
might add, interlinking with their other sites (same IP BTW). Okay,
you could call those high PR backlinks, but not from out of their
system.

If more people followed the model of wikipedia, they would build authority,
and yes, you can maintain rankings with little or no new external backlinks.

But..(and because)...the beauty of this system, is that it breeds link bait.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I agree that Wikipedia is an excellent case study for this discussion. Though I disagree wholeheartedly with your conclusion.

While I agree that a large website, with thorough internal linking, definitely feeds on itself. I disagree with the assertion that no backlinks are necessary. Those internal links, that Wikipedia does such a thorough job of creating, are the backlinks that feed link juice to all those internal pages. Wikipedia is one massive interlinked web that distributes link juice throughout that web through those internal backlinks. Without those internal, plus external backlinks, wikipedia pages would not have anywhere near the authority that do currently.

And yes, every new indexed page generates a small amount of PR (aprox. 0.15) based solely on its' existence in the index. So a really large website that uses effective internal links will generate PR from that massive cache of pages. But, it is the collective link juice from the many internal backlinks that give each page it's own authority. If a new page doesn't get significant backlinks it won't rank any better than the same content on a brand new website.

So yes, I think we mostly agree, just not about the need for backlinks. Authority doesn't come from the domain name, it is earned through backlinks. Perhaps we are not defining backlinks the same way, and really agree when using a consistent definition?

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MaverickUK

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Eleva8

You seem to believe that new pages on your "authority site" ranks and maintains rank because of the site's authority status. With any site that has many pages there are going to be internal links that point to new pages that are created assuming ones navigational setup is thorough. And this is the reason why new pages rank of the cuff and maintain ranking. There is more going on under the hood that causes this effect. The wheels on my vehicle may turn because I put my foot on the accelerator but there is actually certain mechanics that are unseen which cause the wheels to turn.

If I can find a new page on your site from another page then that means there is a backlink pointing to that page internally. I can create a 20 page site and have all my pages linked via a sidebar menu and just by linking externally to the homepage the other pages will also experience a boost in rank -- fact!

Okay, you pointed the facts, that's great but not really relevant to this discussion as I didn't once say that internal linking isn't important - it's also a fact that the pagerank/link juice filters through the homepage to other pages on a website via the navigational or other links on the website - yes I'm aware of this.

I think you took my sentence of "If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only." far too literally. We all know how important internal linking is, this comment was meant to be taken with this fact already being common knowledge.

An authority website is gained by high quality backlinks whilst the other pages rank highly due to the page rank (or link juice, whatever term you wish to use) filtering through the secondary pages through internal linking.

Obviously if i had no internal linking on my website, it wouldn't rank anything other than the homepage without the off-site backlinks. So with the obvious stuff aside, what is the point you're trying to make?

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

You seem to like blaming all pitfalls on QDF, I think you're over emphasising it here on these forums. Plus you do NOT need backlinks in order for a page to maintain their rankings, my authority site proves this very well.

It ranks highly without backlinking and doesn't slide down the rankings (whichever page I make) just because I don't continually backlink. If your site is an authority you often get good rankings as a by-product of writing quality content only.

Of course pages on an authority site stand a chance of ranking well on their own. The OP said their site is only 4 months old, so I highly doubt that Google sees it as an authority site. He said that when he first makes a post it brings in a fair amount of traffic and then drops off.

His pages are initially ranking better because of their newness factor. They aren't staying there because he is not doing any backlinking other than perhaps internal links and his site is not an authority site.

90% of the people who start posts here about their rankings dropping are the same or similar situations once you dig in and ask some questions. What they normally do not divulge in their first post is that their site is brand new, it reached the first page of Google for 2 measly days, and then it fell to page 6. Instead they just start a thread saying "My rankings dropped. WTF?" or "My site disappeared off of page one!".

Those situations are usually 1 of 2 things. It is QDF or they blasted a ton of backlinks at their site and now Google is trying figure out where they should settle in the SERP.

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WilliamsD

13 years ago

If you have a blog in which you have some good post with images, and you were getting traffic and that traffic reduces now its mean that some posts of your blog were up on top of Google, or some images of your blog were in Google Images, but they are not now on top. No need to worry about it, keep on creating unique content and good posts, also take a look from which keywords or images you are getting traffic, and do SEO of that post to keep that post up on Google.

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Martin Lee Jr

13 years ago

It looks like you are falling victim to the Google Dance my friend.

I say keep backlinking, and keep updating your website with quality content, and you will eventually see your website get high rankings in the serps

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InternetMarketingIQ

13 years ago

Wow 4 months old. That's amazing.

If only Google would focus soley on your wants. I wish I could live in a World where everything revolved around me too...

Till then I'll just blame someone else.

Pretty self serving viewpoint.

What is Google's problem? Perhaps it's trying to figure out what to buy with the $28 Billion in revenu they racked in last year?

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playa4thee

13 years ago

Thank you to all those that offered advice and tips.. To the others that want to bash my opinion and viewpoint kindly sit back and KISS THE ARSE of me and MY SITE.. Don't be mad that I have accomplished more in 4 months than your site has in it's lifetime.... Funk it... Watch.. .. as we get ready to Dominate.... Google
BUUUU HHHAAA YAAAAH!!!!

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