Skip the hype - First Page Placement/ 50,000 trashy backlinks matters ZERO without traffic

25 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Tired of seeing people flushing their money down the drain for several thousand backlinks a month and even seeing people all over the internet touting first page placement. So often this is just selling a false dream. Nothing more than a marketing ploy most of the time. Basically you are supposed to think if you get thousands rather than hundreds of backlinks you will rule the earth and if you get first page placement you will dominate Google. If you are new or old to SEO remember what its all about.

TRAFFIC.

Why are you even looking in this SEO section now or looking at SEO Services? For one reason

TRAFFIC.

Newsflash you can get first page placement on a term and get five visits a day. WHAT DOES IT MATTER? First page placement only matters if you get - you guessed it -

TRAFFIC

You can get 50,000 backlinks placed a month. Does google give you a cash prize for who gets the most links?

How long have people been placing thousands of backlinks? YEARS. So why do people still have problem with getting SEO traffic TWO BILLION LINKS LATER?

Use your noggin. Go to Google and put in a few search terms and then get SEOspyglas - THE FREE VERSION You cheapskate - and come back and tell me how many search results you see that have 200,000 links at the top of Google.

So many are losing sight of what its all about. Its not about owning tools that give you a thrill when you see them spitting out thousands of links or Jumping up and down with a beer can in your hand - "yeah man he delivered 100,000 backlinks to my site like in two seconds. Rock on man"

Stop celebrating for stuff that doesn't even matter. You could have a guy making $15 bucks a month in IM but he's on here cooing that he got a first page placement or 5,000 backlinks in a day. So what?

Put on some nice clothes and go to a Ferrari dealership if you want to feel the thrill of power by revving an engine for a car that ain't going anywhere. This is BUSINESS. GROW UP. Nothing is more pathetic than an IM geek that likes tools for the sake of using them. Business is about customers and thats about

TRAFFIC.

So quit roaming around these forums like sheep asking "How many backlinks can I get? Where can I find a list of a thousand forums profiles? What will it take for me to get first page placement?

Like all of a sudden the definition or ranking has changed. Now your a winner if you come in 10th? No bro. No Sis. In MOST serps tenth means you lose, you will get little traffic and you suck at running. It means Usain Bolt crossed the the finish line like an hour before you and him and the rest of the runners that actually placed top five are refreshed and watching synchronized swimming while you finally collapse across the finish line just before the grounds keeper was about to turn off the lights..


WAKE UP. GROW UP. Put the tools down , turn off the glaring RED Letter SALES pitches and get back to concentrating on

TRAFFIC.


Fire up Google, install SEOquake and put a bunch of terms in that search box that you expect people to use to find you on Google. Then ask yourselves - What kind of backlinks are the sites that are ranking getting? Have they been using spammy liks in mass to get to where they are? and where are those spammy links people? If its about quantity over quality why aren't they at the top FOR EVEN ONE TOP COMPETITIVE KEYWORD not sex related?

Get back to what works. Not for WSO sales. Not for ads, not for sales letters, not for "sweet tools" but for WHAT SEO IS REALLY ABOUT.


T R A F F I C
#backlinks #hype #matters #newbies #page #placement #placement or #skip #traffic #trashy
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Last night SeoSpyglass crapped out (for me), since no Yahoo Explorer links are returned.

    Freakin blows, because I really liked SeoSpyglass, they better do a plan-b before long or their entire business will be gone.

    </rant>

    BTW, I think I know who your talking about with the first page SERP ranking guarantee (lol).

    The only thing an seo can guarantee is that services are performed, not ranking in the SERPs.
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4815739].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post


      BTW, I think I know who your talking about with the first page SERP ranking guarantee (lol).
      Yuke I am talking about all of them. Don't let past arguments with who you have in mind make you think I am targeting any one service or person.

      Frankly I think the backlink ones are worse. At least you can build on the first page placement but to think you are really getting anywhere because you bought a service from a guy running a piece of software is just getting extra deluded. Also I do think in fairness that the first page guys gets more traffic than the backlink promise only guys. Fair is fair.

      Last night SeoSpyglass crapped out (for me), since no Yahoo Explorer links are returned.
      Same here. They better get a good provider or they will vanish.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4815809].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      The only thing an seo can guarantee is that services are performed, not ranking in the SERPs.

      What? Are you kidding me? Did you not see all the testimonials? You do not have enough testimonials to have any idea what you are talking about. Go collect more.

      Obviously spammy links work because if you buy a lot of testimonials from people, you don't need actual proof or facts. Testimonials are all that matter. Forget about comparing anything with logic and actual rankings. It's all about testimonials.

      :rolleyes:
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4816012].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        What? Are you kidding me? Did you not see all the testimonials? You do not have enough testimonials to have any idea what you are talking about. Go collect more.

        Obviously spammy links work because if you buy a lot of testimonials from people, you don't need actual proof or facts. Testimonials are all that matter. Forget about comparing anything with logic and actual rankings. It's all about testimonials.

        :rolleyes:
        LMAO!

        You know exactly what I'm talking about!

        I suppose anyone new to IM/SEO might fall for the clever marketing tricks, but in the end, SERP ranking has no guarantee.

        The pitch is something like:
        • They guarantee page #1 ranking
        • No refunds

        If a guy falls for the guarantee SERP position, by the time they figure out SERPs aren't guaranteed it's to late (no refund).

        The only guarantee in that setup is the service has been provided (maybe) & no refund.

        Shame, shame...

        You would think that with thousands of legit (lol) testimonials, a forum thread would have more than a dozen forum Thanks. :rolleyes:

        Can't win them all I suppose.

        Watch, that will be the next craze "I have more forum Thanks than you", lol!
        Signature
        Hi
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4816129].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author cagliostro
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Last night SeoSpyglass crapped out (for me), since no Yahoo Explorer links are returned.

      Freakin blows, because I really liked SeoSpyglass, they better do a plan-b before long or their entire business will be gone.

      </rant>
      Uncheck the API use and you are ok !
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817618].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
      Build your links to get traffic and you win both battles, even though GOOD traffic is really all that matters at the end of the day. A lot of people over at the backlinks forum do seem to have missed the point on why they are building the backlinks: people more worried about how many links are indexed than what's happening on their site.

      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Freakin blows, because I really liked SeoSpyglass, they better do a plan-b before long or their entire business will be gone.
      Majestic SEO (fresh index), Open Site Explorer, and even Alexa links provide what seems to be a more accurate indication of a site's LIVE links. When buying domains I use to run the yahoo links through scrapebox to see which ones are still live (same as SEO Spy glass but way faster) and numbers were very close to what these other crawlers were providing. They may not find as many but there are more up to date when it comes to alive or dead.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4818029].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

        A lot of people over at the backlinks forum do seem to have missed the point on why they are building the backlinks: people more worried about how many links are indexed than what's happening on their site.
        I guess some are worried about not getting what is promised but it really comes down to the perspective that a link is a link and that quality really doesn't matter. Some people have this almost kiddie idea that if you put enough numbers to something it must be good. Doesn't work in real life.

        If you squirt someone with a water gun 50,000 times they will not keel over and die but a few shots with a real gun will do them in. People on here are always saying SEO is easy but from what I see most people seem ot be educated by sales pitches not what really works.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4821270].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author NEseO
    Totally agree, I did try one of those 1st page guarantee WSOs as a little experiment and guess what??? 3 months in and still not even in the top 100 for any of the 5 keywords given!!!

    Luckily I know SEO and am working on and actually ranking other sites.

    Michael, you are right about the mass links ads on here as it is all about getting the right mix of quality and quantity. Several thousand links will generally mean very few are picked up by G and credited so might as well get some quality ones that stick. Another bit of experience from a year ago when I tried out a forum profile subscription giving 1000 a day and let it run for a month before cancelling. Then let it settle and checked and must have had no more than 100 links indexed from 30,000!! Obviously a lot get deleted by moderators and the rest are just ignored or not found by G.

    Automated tools can be a good tier builder but the main links to your money site must be quality and diverse and of course stick (in my experience the age of the link can make it stronger!).
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4816476].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Chris Sweeney
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      In regards to SpyGlass this is from their forum.




      It will pull in Yahoo links. I think it is just as of September 15th when Yahoo shut its doors.
      Good call, works great now!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4816782].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author LiamP
        I see the point the OP is making, but I think they are making it in an unnecessarily patronising tone. I'd wager the OP has used the wrong tool for the job before in some field. It's a mistake we all make.

        First Page Placement services can be very useful - especially to the time poor, but like any tool you need to understand how to use it, exactly what it does, and what it achieves.

        In most cases I think first page placement should only be used as part of a wider SEO strategy, and unless it's a very high traffic keyword you should be using it on a keyword where you can realistically shoot for top 3 once it hits number 10.

        Unless you have a reason for getting endless links, I'd go with the ones which give a 90 day refund guarantee. You can get good results with these.
        For example I got one of these, got a refund after 90 days, two weeks later it was #1 for my keywords. I reinvested the money back with that provider as I'd got more than what the original payment was worth to me.
        Signature

        A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
        Robert A. Heinlein

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4816943].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by LiamP View Post

          I see the point the OP is making, but I think they are making it in an unnecessarily patronising tone. I'd wager the OP has used the wrong tool for the job before in some field. It's a mistake we all make.

          How much is your wager? I'll send over my paypal addy so you can send the cash over. Seriously though don't go making statements you don't have the slightest evidence for. As for patronizing tone. I call em like I see em and theres enough people running around singing the praises of things that do not work (specifically talking about large backlink packages) that maybe a little patronizing is a balance as long as its aimed at techniques rather than people. The mentality that comes from people who buy into this is ruining peoples SEO labor and money and frankly driving down the quality of this section of the forum. Just sayin.

          In most cases I think first page placement should only be used as part of a wider SEO strategy, and unless it's a very high traffic keyword you should be using it on a keyword where you can realistically shoot for top 3 once it hits number 10.
          Read my man. I already said in post #3 that you can build on First page placement. What I object to is thinking that you have reached a goal by being on the front page. In case you missed it what I said was the goal its........

          TRAFFIC


          But the only way you are ever going to build on that is by using solid links not the crap ones that the most popular sold tools give out.Now if you got a refund on a service that gave you first page (but admit it its hit and mostly miss for most serps) then you should give back the refund not "reinvest " it. See that was my qualifier because I am hoping you ranked for a term that had searches which = traffic
          Originally Posted by Ash R View Post


          However, a first page (top 3) placement is one way to start seeing targeted traffic, and hence more revenue.

          .
          Ash R lets not confuse first page placement with top three ranking. NO ONE said anywhere in this thread and would ever say that top three ranking does not bring traffic. Your kinda twisting what was written and trying to combine the two. Services that promise first page placement only are NOT promising you top three ranking.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817031].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author LiamP
            I respect you being yourself and your desire to assist. I think you've got a lot to offer as an SEO educator, it's just from my perspective I think your message is often way less effective than it could be. I believe you'd help more people by being more measured and nuanced. But that's just my opinion.

            Disagree with the other points in your reply, but can't be bothered being drawn into one of those inane 'I/you said this' forum discussions. Said it all in my first post.

            Cheers, have a nice day.
            Signature

            A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
            Robert A. Heinlein

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817213].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by LiamP View Post

              I believe you'd help more people by being more measured and nuanced. But that's just my opinion.
              Feel free its an open board but as a famous book said theres a time for everything . Measured and nuanced works great for certain things but if you feel that people are led down the wrong path that destroys their dreams - Is it really any good to be measured and nuanced?

              I mean if I felt that blasting the junk out of 50,000 forums worked for any competitive serp then I would say it in a measured and nuanced way. I don't and unlike all those on the other side of the issue I can PROVE It in the serps.

              Right now there are people who will read this and remember what was said when they try these things and they don't work to give them traffic. Those are the only people I need to be effective with. Can't help everyone and am not trying. I'm fully aware especially on this board that there would be push back against what outside a few forums everyone knows to be true. I'm not really trying to help people in the way you think I should. Thats your job. Mine is to help a few in the way I think I should.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817312].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ash R
    Hi Mike,

    I do agree with you in theory. Backlinks and first page placement are useless without traffic - and targeted traffic. And there are a lot of other ways to get targeted traffic without backlinks and first page placements.

    However, a first page (top 3) placement is one way to start seeing targeted traffic, and hence more revenue.

    I agree with the underlying message of your post that people shouldn't just buy backlinks without understanding what they're doing. And it's definitely a good reminder for people who are blindly buying software or backlinking services.

    However, for some people who do understand what they're doing, backlinks and top3 placements are an essential part of their (well thought out) strategy.
    Signature
    Don't sweat the small stuff :)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817004].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ash R
    Hi Mike, I don't want to get into an argument with you since I clearly agree with what you're saying, or at least the general concept of it aka don't blow money on tools/services without understanding what you're doing.
    Signature
    Don't sweat the small stuff :)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817323].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Ash R View Post

      Hi Mike, I don't want to get into an argument with you since I clearly agree with what you're saying, or at least the general concept of it aka don't blow money on tools/services without understanding what you're doing.
      Got you. I think we are in COMPLETE agreement. I just wanted to point out that I was referring to first page placement services not Top three ranking. You are right top three HAS been shown to bring in traffic.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817353].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Got you. I think we are in COMPLETE agreement. I just wanted to point out that I was referring to first page placement services not Top three ranking. You are right top three HAS been shown to bring in traffic.
        Sure about that, Mike? Is that a true statement...all of the time? A Top-3 spot for a term that gets 13 searches per month? Ahhh...there's the rub...

        You need good keywords. Then you need to get ranked for those keywords. Then you get your traffic. By the way...I can think of a few keywords I would KILL to have the #10 position for...hell, I'd take bottom of the second page and be KILLING it.

        It is a true statement that traffic follows rankings...good rankings for good keywords, for that matter. And, I agree with your overall statement that people should avoid over-hyped WSO's or any offers that offer the moon and stars...even if they "guarantee" it.

        Still, your condescending "know-it-all" tone isn't helpful and whiny, listen-to-me posts on the WF aren't going to help whatever the next offer is you're putting in your signature.
        Signature
        Website Brokers - We can help you sell businesses making $500 to $50K per month.

        Free Website Valuation - How much is your website really worth? Find out here, free.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4824545].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by TryBPO View Post

          Sure about that, Mike? Is that a true statement...all of the time? A Top-3 spot for a term that gets 13 searches per month? Ahhh...there's the rub...
          Who said "all the time".....You making up quotes now Trybo? try again.

          You need good keywords. Then you need to get ranked for those keywords. Then you get your traffic. By the way...I can think of a few keywords I would KILL to have the #10 position for...hell, I'd take bottom of the second page and be KILLING it.
          And for those where 10 would get you good traffic you wouldn't be anywhere on the horizon with spammy links. Haven't seen you. But all the empty bluster nonsense aside I'll go with the stats proven over and over and over again that position 20 gets only a sliver of the traffic for ANY keywords. Aim for twenty -----if that s all you can muster.

          ]
          Still, your condescending "know-it-all" tone isn't helpful and whiny, listen-to-me posts on the WF aren't going to help whatever the next offer is you're putting in your signature.
          Helpful to whom? The closet spam linkers like yourself who can only dream of position 10 and 20? Why so stung and hurt when no names were called? You can always tell whose foots been stepped on by the reactions (I mean if the the recommendation for Senukex on your site wasn't already a dead give away not to mention fiverr gigs). I like how a few of you think its either my mission or obligation to help you. I don't have any obligation to you. Who I help is my business and rest assured I have lost nothing in the way of anything I offer or put in my signature. It was never going to be for the blasters who are offended anyway. Everything that has ever worked for me required effort , time and planning something that most tool spammers I know don't have the good sense to see the benefit in. ON the rare occassion when my sig is active its been for things that wouldn't appeal to that crowd no matter what.

          Or hadn't you figured that out? Keep spitting out $149per month for your N/a links unless you finally wised up. More for us at the top while you aim for 20.

          But no I am not a know it all. Theres a bunch of people in this thread already - still the majority in fact - that know these things. In fact if you ever get out and look around most of The SEO world would consider what I wrote to be self evident.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4824691].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jinjinjk
    dang...I am quite a noob at this and I didn't really know where to get the backlinks so I decided to purchase a lot of them without the knowledge of where they were linking to...Looking at this, I guess I went about the wrong direction.

    What are some ways I can get quality backlinks without outsourcing?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817740].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author patrich
    There are 2 main problems with this industry as whole, those being:

    Too much misinformation from people that don't understand the business.
    Too many people that think they can jump in without having to do any "real work".

    I think the second is probably the biggest problem. A lot of people are just lazy and they think that seo/websites is the golden ticket to success. They think that they are going to jump in and make a fortune without having to work at it.

    I make a comfortable living from my websites, but, I also work anywhere from 10-15 hours per day 5 days a week and about 4-5 hours a day on Sat and Sun. When I started, I knew it was going to take a lot of work, and I was right. I put my life on hold to build my business, I have a wife and kids and they hated it when I was getting started, because I missed out on a lot of stuff with the family. But, it was a sacrifice that had to be made for me to get where I wanted to be.

    Unfortunately, now days a lot of people want to work an hour or two a day and make twenty thousand a month, that just isn't reality. And to be honest, I don't "blame" new people for thinking this way, because it is what most of the "seo products" lead people to believe. In many cases, beginners are setup for failure before they even get started and I think it is sad.

    As long as there is money to be made in "shiny" products and misleading sales letters, I just don't see things improving.

    To be honest, I think my biggest factor for my success when I got started, was that I didn't have money to buy IM products. I couldn't afford them so I learned on my own through hours of research and some good old fashion trial and error.
    Signature

    Professional licensing for a variety of careers now available at License Butler.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4817861].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author guzpra
      Originally Posted by patrich View Post

      Unfortunately, now days a lot of people want to work an hour or two a day and make twenty thousand a month, that just isn't reality. And to be honest, I don't "blame" new people for thinking this way, because it is what most of the "seo products" lead people to believe. In many cases, beginners are setup for failure before they even get started and I think it is sad.

      To be honest, I think my biggest factor for my success when I got started, was that I didn't have money to buy IM products. I couldn't afford them so I learned on my own through hours of research and some good old fashion trial and error.
      In this, i am absolutely agree with you. I'm working with SEO and online marketing nearly 1 years now. I work about 7 hours per day, even when I do my full time job at the office, because I have dreams to build my own online business

      Sometimes a sounds very good seo service is really only sounds good, and people often think it was easy to just sit and working the SEO campaign for an example.. but in the future they will respect online-preneur like us!
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4824707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    I use tools and am successful. It's not about traffic btw newb. 1st time I called someone that. Congrats.

    Traffic?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4824634].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by boxoun View Post

      I use tools and am successful. It's not about traffic btw newb. 1st time I called someone that. Congrats.

      Traffic?
      LOL.... I don't think I have ever seen anyone do that good of a job showing cluelessness. Running a successful website has nothing to do with traffic eh?
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4932282].message }}

Trending Topics