are you affected by Google Panda update Oct 13 2011

12 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites and penalizing those who are using private blog networks. Is there anybody else who observed this change?

How do you know they were penalized for using a private blog network? I use a private blog network to give my websites a massive boost in the rankings and have yet to see a penalty for doing so.

Noticed changes in Google? Google is CONSTANTLY changing. For some various keywords that I am not actively targeting I see constant fluctuations in the rankings. However, with keywords that I am purposefully targeting and WANTING to rank in the SERPs all I have seen is a rise.

I have even seen a rise for some pages that I haven't actively promoted with backlinks, BUT I still want to rank for that specific keyword.

-- Jeff

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trustumar

12 years ago

Originally Posted by theverysmartguy

How do you know they were penalized for using a private blog network? I use a private blog network to give my websites a massive boost in the rankings and have yet to see a penalty for doing so.

-- Jeff

Today i have noticed 2 sites dropped a little. They both were using private blog networks as their main backlinking strategy.

1 is hereshowtoloseweightfast.com the other is in mortgage niche. Yesterday it was ranking @ #1 for their main keyword but today it is @ #5.

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed 2 sites dropped a little. They both were using private blog networks as their main backlinking strategy.

1 is hereshowtoloseweightfast.com the other is in mortgage niche. Yesterday it was ranking @ #1 for their main keyword but today it is @ #5.

Sorry but going from #1 down to #5 is not a penalization. It is just a standard rank fluctuation. Those are very very competitive niches, of course there is going to be fluctuations.

If it was a penalty for anything really then it would have gotten hit quite a bit harder than that.

-- Jeff

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wyuguy 12 years ago

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- WakondaMarketing 12 years ago
  
  In my case, my sites improved in rankings. I don't know why most of my fellow marketers' websites went down in rankings. Weird.
  
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- ttkim 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by wyuguy
  
  I think the problem is it keeps the top position for a long time. but suddenly it drop
  
  It's a competitive market so it will fluctuate.
  
  It was #3 a moment ago when I checked with scroogle, and now it's showing at #4. Scroogle also shows 1 site with 3 pages ahead of it so it's not like it's suddenly falling behind a series of other websites.
  
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  gagan 12 years ago
  
  May be there is some kind of a update in progress. A couple of my sites are down in serps. They are older sites ranging from one to five years. (have been quite steady in their rankings) The only thing I could find in common was that they were all updated with new content with in last week.
  
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  blogworker 12 years ago
  
  Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites and penalizing those who are using private blog networks
  
  really?
  i don't see. how do you get that information? what is the reason for doing this by Google? how to know sites are penalized due to using private blog network?
  
  Thanks
  
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socomplete

12 years ago

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

You can out rank amazon easily if you know what your doing. Alot of those amazon listings are extensions.

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jackwebson 12 years ago

Whether you use blog networks or link wheels the result will still vary on each sites. Some may be successful and others may not. I did a lot of case studies and still I'm not relying on those as I believe that SEO is uncertain.

All we need to do is use white hat tactics and follow Google's rules for SEO.

Jack
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Rageki

12 years ago

Originally Posted by socomplete

No, not really, all of my sites are doing pretty well, I submit everything manually with unique content.

You can out rank amazon easily if you know what your doing. Alot of those amazon listings are extensions.

I agree; I see websites with only 10 backlinks rank out amazon.

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ttkim

12 years ago

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packjack

12 years ago

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karismasand 12 years ago

Hi,

If you don't try to trick Google everything will be fine. In less than a month i jump on page 3 for a keyword that have 135.000 exact US searches.

If you don't buy links, if you don't spam if you make all manual you don't have to worry about Panda Update.

Good luck !
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julianbooth123

12 years ago

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dadoc 12 years ago

I have seen a significant drop in a few sites today. Other sites no problem and another site increased in ranking.

We are all at the mercy of the Big G...
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- AuthorityDomains 12 years ago
  
  I've noticed changes to SERPs too for quite a lot of our sites.
  
  Not sure what the pattern is yet
  
  Some have adsense, others don't and both affected
  
  Some dropped a few places that were no1 for over 1 year
  
  Some dropped a page or 2
  
  Some longtail traffic also lost
  
  Some sites haven't moved and are still in the same position.
  
  These sites haven't had any new links or content for a while. They are all unique content and have good domain/page authority with age.
  
  Only thing is most of these sites are niches and on the same web host
  
  I have noticed that a lot of brand/merchant sites have had a boost.
  
  Hoping its a temporary measure as I don't really think the sites ranking above our sites are more 'Relevant' to the visitor.
  
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coronaborcalis

12 years ago

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bummed.out 12 years ago

Yes, all my sites have dropped in ranking; it's unfortunate, some were number 1, 2 and 3 for their main keyword. Seems I'm not the only one, if that's any consolation.

My hope is that this is only temporary, since it seems to have affected many of us, and that the sites will bounce back.

Anyone have more insights into this?
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webdesigndevelopment 12 years ago

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- TheFBGuy 12 years ago
  
  I thought was losing my mind or dreaming, some of my sites got destroyed, along with the ones who were at the top with me, yay Google, lol!!
  
  The annoying thing about these changes is they are silent and don't say anything, checked their blog and no news.
  
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BillyBacklinks

12 years ago

yeah ive noticed the same thing with most of my sites, a lot of the main keywords have dropped out , being replaced by wikipedia and amazon. My other lsi keywords have dropped a couple of places too.

Seems strange as these sites have unique and well written content and are pretty well established.

as per previous posts id just stick with what you're doing and id expect them to bounce back sometime soon

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princee

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Having done a little more digging, I'm sure this is going to be very temporary.

I have a UK domain name, and a UK focussed site and my site dropped in Google.co.uk. However, I've just noticed that at the same time it has leaped up to the very top of Google.com some of the same keywords! Previously, my site was nowhere to be seen on Google.com (quite rightly since it is targetted to the UK).

I've never seen a country specific non-US domain at the top of Google.com for anything, let alone a competitive keyword like this.

In short, there's no way it is a permanent thing.

Yes i should also say this even since last some days around 1 month i am experiencing major up and down my one keyword which was on 1st page went on 3rd than 7th and than no where in 100 but now its back on its position.

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carp104

12 years ago

Hey guys,

For some strange reason when I checked my niche sites today my top adsense site apparently fell from #2 to #10 over night for its main keyword, and then my top amazon site fell to the 2nd page for all 5 of its top performing keywords. these sites are completely laid out differently and the only thing similar between them is the backlink strategy.

I dont get it, I never see my competitors bouncing around like this. It seems like if I leave the site alone for a while it will slowly climb then when I build some backlinks or add content to the site it will take a huge plunge sometime shortly after. I only build 1-2 backlinks to each site per day, if that.

I build 90% of my backlinks with BMR and throw in some profile and blog links every once in a while. This is very discouraging, as I dont have many niche sites and planned on building 4-5 more over the next month but if they are this unpredictable then what is the point?

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d0rhk 12 years ago

I had 3 sites go from #1-2 to #10+ overnight as well... Huge setback and disappointment.

There must have been an update last night with the search alrgorithm.. so many other people are commenting on the update.
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Alex Lin

12 years ago

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carp104

12 years ago

Do you all use Build My Rank for linkbuilding?

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Dellco

12 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

Do you all use Build My Rank for linkbuilding?

I have a suspicion that Google has taken notice of the latest HOT trend in SEO, which is private blog networks, and they are cracking down by demoting most of the URLs that were propped up with them.

Most people (including myself) fell anywhere from 1-10 spots, but some are still in denial mode....

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remodeler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

I have a suspicion that Google has taken notice of the latest HOT trend in SEO, which is private blog networks, and they are cracking down by demoting most of the URLs that were propped up with them.

Most people (including myself) fell anywhere from 1-10 spots, but some are still in denial mode....

I wish that were true because it would be an easy fix. Unfortunately, it's not the case. I've had sites with no linkbuilding fall as well as sites with plenty of linkbuilding going on.

It's all guesswork unless you're the google employee that knows exactly what they did.

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carp104 12 years ago

I have seen this happen as well and like you suggested, within a few days it usually goes back. However in the past it usually only happened to one site at a time, not all of them.

We will see what happens but in the meantime I think I need to build a better SEO strategy as well, as I probably have too many of my links coming from BMR and not enough diversity.
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ttkim

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

I use Build My Rank on 2 of my sites. Today one fell, and the other one shot up.

A blog network can produce pretty good quality links, but should only be a small part of a diverse backlink portfolio anyway.

I've only been doing this 6 months, but I've already seen this happen 3 times. Each time so far it's been a temporary shuffling of the SERPs while they apply some update, and after a few days everything goes back to normal usually with a nice increase in traffic as well.

Given that my UK site is suddenly and inexplicably ranking at the top of Google.com (despite having a UK domain name, and not being anywhere to be seen on Google.com yesterday) I'm thinking it will be the same story this time.

So let's just chill and see what happens. Maybe take the time to do something constructive like add some good quality new content to our sites.

I heard that Google is starting to drastically take into consideration your location. For example, a lot of people from the UK will see co.uk results, despite searching on Google.com and not Google.co.uk.

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d0rhk 12 years ago

The only sites that dropped were the ones I didn't use BMR on

I consider a drop of 2-5 spots normal. I'm only concerned with my sites that went from top 3 to page 3.
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wyuguy 12 years ago

I dont use BMR, but my sites are dropped too.
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- carp104 12 years ago
  
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36burrows

12 years ago

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

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paulgl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

LOL!!! Over time you will learn to just ignore some threads as they
will drive you crazy. Or you risk developing the "paulgl syndrome."

Sad, really. It gives the wrong impression of the WF from passer-bys.

That the majority of the forum is full of illogical complaining, whining,
blaming everything on that mean google and their algorithms.

Forgetting, of course, that search results are dynamic, constantly
changing, for various reasons.

Paul

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carp104

12 years ago

Originally Posted by paulgl

LOL!!! Over time you will learn to just ignore some threads as they
will drive you crazy. Or you risk developing the "paulgl syndrome."

Sad, really. It gives the wrong impression of the WF from passer-bys.

That the majority of the forum is full of illogical complaining, whining,
blaming everything on that mean google and their algorithms.

Forgetting, of course, that search results are dynamic, constantly
changing, for various reasons.

Paul

The intention of this thread wasn't really to "whine" but I want to see if anyone has experienced anything similar and what the cause might be.

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alistair

12 years ago

Originally Posted by 36burrows

This has nothing to do with BMR or any other network.

Geez, it's funny how people just start making things up without having any proof or evidence of anything.

I don't use any private networks or such like and some of my sites have dropped so you're probably right.

But seeing that your certain of what it hasn't got to do with even though yiou haven't produced any proof or any evidence and are probably guessing, then maybe you could inform us of what it has got to do with?

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bhuff85 12 years ago

I've seen a few drops on some of my sites, but just like peterjames said, just keep adding content and continue to build links. Sometimes, you just have to ride out the storm.

Eventually everything will come back together, and when it does, you may find out that your rankings are a bit higher than they were previously.
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HelenAbell 12 years ago

I seem to have got away relatively unscathed this time, but I'm investigating some 'suspects':

-Avoiding having "tag clouds" which have allegedly fallen from favour, as they look too much like keyword stuffing..
-Increasing encouragement of social media links and not relying so much on forum back links?
- No follow on forum posts on your site that don't have replies... until they get replies?
- Avoiding duplicate content - ie. where you publish blog posts, and also have published articles with some of the same content.
- Avoiding having internal Search Results - which allegedly fallen from favour as Google wants to be the god of search?

Anyone had any experience with any of these ideas? I'd be interested to hear?
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jonnyhardbaked 12 years ago

All have experienced the same scenario. That's pretty normal because I'm doing some adjustments regarding on this update and finding it effective (but not 100% yet).

I'm going to share it if I found out that it is effective. My site dropped almost 50+ in SERP but now its getting back on its feet again with a quite high level competition keyword.
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munstersg01 12 years ago

Fight on and continue to add fresh unique content and build better quality backlinks and more backlinks.

Analyze those websites that have moved up instead and what could be done to improve the affected websites.

In addition, explore ways at which traffic could be driven from alternative means. For example, posting articles to document sharing sites always gives me a boost in traffic for awhile.

Social book marking also helps a little.

For income wise provide a service or sell a product to make active income while still build on your sites for passive income.

Algorithm and system changes, it happens, don't give up
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- carp104 12 years ago
  
  It doesn't seem like any of my competitors moved much, just my sites fell considerably. I will just keep my fingers crossed this is just some simple SERP shuffling, although since many of you are reporting the same problem it might be more serious than that.
  
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Jiminy 12 years ago

One of my sites dropped big time, from #1 - #5 spots for multiple keywords, all the way to deep google pages, like page 3, 4, 9, etc..
This particular site was mostly promoted using web2.0, could be an indicator. Hopefully things will stable out.
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- dadoc 12 years ago
  
  could google be devaluing web 2.0?
  
  A lot of sites got hit....
  
  We always try to stay one step ahead of the Gman.
  
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steady 12 years ago

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- athenistic 12 years ago
  
  I had one site take a big drop, a few hold steady, and several went up.
  
  The site that dropped has of course taken a severe traffic hit - I'm down to about 20% of what I normally see.
  
  BUT the traffic I'm getting is much, much more targeted. I don't think I'm going to have a problem recovering from this. I can't see that this is some sort of punishment.
  
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treezie 12 years ago

Yeah my rankings dropped too. Not too much...one keyword from #1 to #2 (#1 is now wiki, which was #2 before). Another keyword went from #6 to #11. I'm seeing about a 40% drop in usual traffic today. Hopefully it's just temporary or else I'm going to have do a lot more work.
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- carp104 12 years ago
  
  My traffic dropped over 90% today - definitely not a good day
  
  I have noticed that it looks like amazon sub-pages and wiki pages have took the top spots over niche sites. This hints towards a permanent change
  
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networm 12 years ago
Looks like Google have another updates. I have all my sites drop in rankings and after few hours...2 of them recovered while the other 2 significantly drop until now.

Google is doing a continuous experiment on the search results with their algorithm.
Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5RZOU6vK4Q
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- scruffy77 12 years ago
  
  opposite is happening to me... 2 of my newest sites jumped up a lot, just 5-10 manual backlinks a day
  
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WatchTheThrone 12 years ago

i am also getting very few traffic today Like 1/3 for a normal friday. My site is in spanish, so the update also applied to other languages.

I hope things come back to normal in the next days
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Chiayee 12 years ago

Strange.

For one of my money sites, it was ranked in top three for many profitable keywords.

Earlier this month I got quality backlinks from PR7, PR6 and PR 5 pages. I did it via sponsorship, not with private blog network, forum profile network, blog commenting and other usual stuff you know. And, there are not many links (less than 20) on the same page where my site is listed. I've actually got those links via personal connections. As mentioned, the links are high quality.

Still this site got hit. My competitors, who used spammy link building tactics are ranked. higher.

WTF?
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- carp104 12 years ago
  
  It sure is going to be interesting to see if this blows over and how long it will take. Does anyone notice any difference what so ever on your sites that actually improved in the SERPS? What are you doing differently to these sites both on-page and off-page?
  
  Thanks
  
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  Dellco 12 years ago
  
  Everyone keeps saying they HOPE things will recover, but I think the chances of things going back to what they were just yesterday are very slim, since according to here, Matt Cutts really did admit there was an update.
  
  http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ge-update.html
  
  My traffic levels have now gone down to the levels about one year ago. That's one year of work gone!
  
  Newbies here should take the hint, CHANGE is a constant with Google, so make sure - you know exactly, what you are signing up for.....
  
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ProdigyMike 12 years ago

I got caught up in a little bit of this as well. Sites that have been performing very well got hit a bit, still "on the map" though thankfully
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TheAdsenseGuy

12 years ago

Hey Guys-

My sites just took a big hit too. I had multiple page one rankings on each site. Have 17 adsense sites. Here's what I've been doing. Maybe we can figure this out.

Out of 17 sites, only 2 are still ranked in the top 3 positions of page 1 of google. The rest (including previously ranked subpages) have had their rankings drop from 1 page to 3 pages. They were previously on page 1 of Google. This all hapened today and today my adsense income dropped like a rock.

So check this out. Over 2 months ago, I rebuilt these sites for Panda. They have between 18-30 pages of content. They have Google Adsense on them. Each page has a 1000 word article, a youtube video, an outbound link to an authority site and at least 2 pictures on each page. And i didn't put crappy $5 articles on the pages - I used a "real" writer and paid $30 for EACH article! - So I have quality content. So I'm having a problem believing that this was an ONPAGE Google update. But who knows!

Regarding Backlinking: I've been a heavy user of ALN (Authority Link Network). That is the "free" High PR blog network. Other people on this thread have said they use different blog networks and are experiencing rankings drops today.

Other than that, I use Web 2.0 blogs, press releases, PAD file backlinks, ALN, social bookmarks. I DO NOT use forum profile backlinks.

When I look at the big picture it almost looks like if you have adsense on your site or affiliate links, you're getting penalized! Of course it's too early to tell, but in time we'll figure it out.

All I can say is that i think we should all start to slowly move away from SEO. I think that within the next couple of years it will become impossible to "game" the search engines any longer. Google is getting smarter and smarter every day.

For the past couple months I've been diversifiying online income away from Google - Have you?

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Dellco

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheAdsenseGuy

Hey Guys-

My sites just took a big hit too. I had multiple page one rankings on each site. Have 17 adsense sites. Here's what I've been doing. Maybe we can figure this out.

Out of 17 sites, only 2 are still ranked in the top 3 positions of page 1 of google. The rest (including previously ranked subpages) have had their rankings drop from 1 page to 3 pages. They were previously on page 1 of Google. This all hapened today and today my adsense income dropped like a rock.

So check this out. Over 2 months ago, I rebuilt these sites for Panda. They have between 18-30 pages of content. They have Google Adsense on them. Each page has a 1000 word article, a youtube video, an outbound link to an authority site and at least 2 pictures on each page. And i didn't put crappy $5 articles on the pages - I used a "real" writer and paid $30 for EACH article! - So I have quality content. So I'm having a problem believing that this was an ONPAGE Google update. But who knows!

Regarding Backlinking: I've been a heavy user of ALN (Authority Link Network). That is the "free" High PR blog network. Other people on this thread have said they use different blog networks and are experiencing rankings drops today.

Other than that, I use Web 2.0 blogs, press releases, PAD file backlinks, ALN, social bookmarks. I DO NOT use forum profile backlinks.

When I look at the big picture it almost looks like if you have adsense on your site or affiliate links, you're getting penalized! Of course it's too early to tell, but in time we'll figure it out.

All I can say is that i think we should all start to slowly move away from SEO. I think that within the next couple of years it will become impossible to "game" the search engines any longer. Google is getting smarter and smarter every day.

For the past couple months I've been diversifiying online income away from Google - Have you?

And how have you managed to move your income away from Google, exactly? Short of ditching Adsense and SEO since both involve Google? Even your affiliate sales would mostly have to come from Google SERP traffic (or Adwords).....

This update was like a tsunami and even big guns that went unscathed in the previous Pandas, did not survive this one. And we can certainly expect more of this volatility in the coming months and years, yes.

The collateral damage is far bigger than what you would infer from the forums, as many guys who were doing well have opted to keep quiet. I did notice many sites that were like permanent fixtures at the top got dropped, anywhere from a few spots to several pages down!

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juicebrenner 12 years ago

It's a never ending battle in getting ranks higher and higher. A race too with many others trying to reach the top as well for the same keyword. I've had a site dance around when I first apply SEO to a dormant keyword. It started in a better place then went back, then eventually started to climb. It can be mind boggling with the SERPs. Google is one that seems to keep me on my toes. It always a challenge in trying to figure out the updates to the "T". If it was that easy we'd all be #1. Just keep building quality links and the rewards will flow.
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Steve Faber

12 years ago

Has anyone else noticed a very large drop in traffic today? I lost between 60 and 70% of my traffic on 4 different sites since yesterday. The traffic is usually fairly even, and always takes a dip on Friday - Sunday, but this is extremely unusual.

They are in totally different niches, hosted on 3 different servers, at 3 different hosting companies. They are all different ages, 7 years, 2years, and 1.5 years old. I use Google analytics on two of them, and Sitemeter on the other two. Two are word press blogs, one is a static site built with a Yahoo site building tool, and one is a Moveable Type blog.

I've seen this happen on single sites before, but this is the first time I've seen such a large, almost instantaneous drop on 4 sites at once, especially 4 sites with such disparate characteristics.

None of them are really thin affiliate sites. One has over 600 pages, some of them quite long, of entirely unique and themed content, and one of the others has over 200 pages. I have noticed after a quick look at the analytics, that I lost a page or two for several keywords, but I haven't yet done an in-depth analysis.

Anybody else notice a big drop today? I wasn't really affected by panda at all, so although this is not unheard of, it is definitely unusual for me.

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networm 12 years ago

That's an effect of the newest update on G's algorithm, it started yesterday. A lot were affected, including few of my websites but there are those who recovered in hours.

I think someone already posted about this algorithm update...
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kidder

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Has anyone else noticed a very large drop in traffic today? I lost between 60 and 70% of my traffic on 4 different sites since yesterday. The traffic is usually fairly even, and always takes a dip on Friday - Sunday, but this is extremely unusual.

They are in totally different niches, hosted on 3 different servers, at 3 different hosting companies. They are all different ages, 7 years, 2years, and 1.5 years old. I use Google analytics on two of them, and Sitemeter on the other two. Two are word press blogs, one is a static site built with a Yahoo site building tool, and one is a Moveable Type blog.

I've seen this happen on single sites before, but this is the first time I've seen such a large, almost instantaneous drop on 4 sites at once, especially 4 sites with such disparate characteristics.

None of them are really thin affiliate sites. One has over 600 pages, some of them quite long, of entirely unique and themed content, and one of the others has over 200 pages. I have noticed after a quick look at the analytics, that I lost a page or two for several keywords, but I haven't yet done an in-depth analysis.

Anybody else notice a big drop today? I wasn't really affected by panda at all, so although this is not unheard of, it is definitely unusual for me.

You almost have to wonder if Google is looking at whois data and high rankings, if you have multiple sites you take a hit. I've had 3 unrelated sites go down the tubes with this update.

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fated82

12 years ago

2 of my profitable sites are still ranking well on the serps for their main keywords. In fact, most of my sub keywords shot up to page 2 ( usually page 3-4). Here is what I did.

- about 800-1000 words article
- keyword density of 2.5% - 3%
- each page links out to authority site & internal pages
- backlinks from BMR to specific pages I want to rank.

Google's main objective is to provide quality content when users do a search, so as long as we do what Google wants, it should be fine.

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Chiayee 12 years ago

Originally Posted by fated82

Google's main objective is to provide quality content when users do a search, so as long as we do what Google wants, it should be fine.

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Many site are built with valuable contents and quality backlinks, and they got hit.

I can quote two affected sites in the last updates:

DaniWeb IT Discussion Community
Ask the Builder - The Home Improvement Resource

Both are aged authority sites, with tons of top notch articles and backlinks from other authority sites.
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- markowe 12 years ago
  
  Yep, I have seen this same thing - my best-performing site dropped to the no. 2 spot for its main keyword (been there all year) and all the other keywords got kicked back to page two. And this is in Google UK, btw.
  
  My site is a built-out minisite, i.e. started life as more or less an MFA but has been beefed up a lot. Very diverse backlink profile including articles (incl. from private high-PR blog networks but also AMR-type sites), PAD backlinks, manual blog comments, Web 2.0 pyramid etc. I could still see why Google MIGHT want that kind of site out of the SERPS, but it doesn't make sense because some of my much crappier micro-niche sites are still holding firm. Obviously we are hoping this is temporary, that's a big earnings hit for me (about 50% on that site)...
  
  Sure there are threads like this popping up every day, "what happened to my sites", and it's usually just someone's site moving around. But this time obviously something is up, there is too much similarity among the reports, so obviously we want to get to the bottom of it, that's why we do SEO.
  
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rinor81

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Exact same strategy that I use, but my main site still took a hit. My main keywords are still ranking number 1, but most of my product name keywords that subpages were ranking for have suffered.

The main keywords, but of course the product name keywords convert better...

Same here.

Have one site that got hit hard, main keyword stayed on page 1 on top while all inner pages with sub-keywords are down a few pages....so hurts...other sites seems to be intact so far...

From what I read here there is no real pattern to what has happened and all sorts of sites got hit...guess there are too many factors and we'll never know, just need to keep on building links and adding content....any other ideas?

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Young Samurai 12 years ago

I'm not sure I can take much more of this.

I've 3 sites which have still not recovered from Panda.

One of them resurfaced with high page 1 rankings for 4 or 5 days a couple of weeks ago (and approx. 1K visitors per day and some very welcome sales) but then it disappeared again to the outer limits.

A fourth - my best selling until 2 days ago - had 11 pages on the first page of Google and had been untouched by Panda. As of this morning not one of those 11 keywords/pages are on page 1. They've all dropped to pages 2, 3 and 4.

This past few months have been very frustrating and this only compounds the problem.
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dagaul101 12 years ago

It could possibly be that some of the links you are using with BMR have been penalised and you are reaping some of that penalty
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JamesPenn

12 years ago

My health blog had one of it's best Google traffic days ever yesterday.

It's an aged four year old blog that publishes only unique, original content and generates backlinks using guest posts and other bloggers linking back.

My high traffic continued until the early hours of the morning (UK time) and then at 5am it took a right dive.

See the attached screenshot showing my traffic by hour.

I've updated my Market Samurai rank tracker and I have a mixture of about 40% of my target keywords losing ranking by 3-20 places, and 20% of my keywords going up in rankings.

Unfortunately, all my #1 ranked keywords took a dive to the second page, and all the keywords that increased were in positions 20+ originally and only went up a few places, so they didn't reach the first page.

I hope this update is temporary!

James

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razorhound

12 years ago

Yep, noticed some changes in SERP. 1/3 down from #1-2 to #7-10, 1/3 not affected, 1/3 went from #4-6 to #1-4. Competitors are either gone or moved down a few spots. Hope this is not permanent.

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coronaborcalis

12 years ago

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dadoc 12 years ago

I can't see this as being permanent...makes no sense unless G has lost its mind. Sites in a lot of my niches getting completely jumbled.
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Dellco

12 years ago

Originally Posted by coronaborcalis

If its would be permanent I will go out from this business and sell all my site that still earn money.

I never thought that losing ranking in search engine is more hurt than losing girlfriend

Maybe Google wants to hammer home the message that SERP rankings are anything but stable, unless you are Wikipedia or Amazon.

A lot of newbies think internet business is stable stuff.....Maybe 5 years ago it was so, but not any more....

In a single day, a lot of top rankings went poof......

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athenistic 12 years ago

I have 5 new sites that I've been testing BMR on. All sites are 2-4 months old, and I've been building secondary keyword back links to them. (not my main keywords. It might be a bit of a strange test.)

All have been steadily rising for their keywords. As of this morning, the one that was getting the most traffic out of the group dropped anywhere from 1 to 7 pages for every keyword that I was targeting, but the rest either remained stable or gained position.

So, I don't think that networks can be blamed.
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Bhutto2k

12 years ago

Most of my websites dropped average 2-3 spots yesterday. Google definitely did something at the back-end.

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royroy

12 years ago

although my main website (12 yrs age in competitive niche) dropped few places #4 to #9 but still i can see funny things happened, for example in one of my keyword #1 reserved as usual for brand name website and #2 guess what ? affiliate link ranked in #2 in very competitive KW with its CJ unmasked extension,
i think (hope this is not a wishful thinking) this a temporary because this insane from big G makes no sense and the guys over there they are just updating there algorithmic data ....

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rosesmark

12 years ago

[DELETED]

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TheFBGuy

12 years ago

Looks like update is not done yet.

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rinor81

12 years ago

Well, I guess if it happened to so many people who do things in different ways it must be temporary, especially when I see sites which I'm sure are new and are EMD's on page 1 but still not deserve to be there and my site with all its keywords that I promote is down or vanished...

Guess we'll have to wait, see and follow...let's just hope it's temporary.

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FredJones

12 years ago

Yes there have been some shift in rankings. I see some massive improvements for bigger sites. Interestingly, from what I have seen so far, EZA has moved up (I mean, they may have gone down for all that I know but a few ones that I knew seem to have improved - I don't have much on EZA so I'm not talking about many) !!

And Amazon? That's what has taken all the gold away with it. What improvements !! And all for pages that sell with not much "information content". Wikipedia has remained as solid as ever of course, it was solid anyway so nothing surprising about that.

Originally Posted by rinor81

Well, I guess if it happened to so many people who do things in different ways it must be temporary, especially when I see sites which I'm sure are new and are EMD's on page 1 but still not deserve to be there and my site with all its keywords that I promote is down or vanished...

Guess we'll have to wait, see and follow...let's just hope it's temporary.

Thanks
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gagan

12 years ago

All I see is big product stores and brands taking up first page.

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WealthyBlogger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by gagan

All I see is big product stores and brands taking up first page.

This is pretty much what I'm seeing as well. for a major key word, my ten year old site consistently ranked #4 and #5 on page 1 of Google.ca and Google.com on searches in Canada.

Yesterday and today, the top 3 are still the same as what they were (wikipedia, about.com's niche site and another older site), but the rest are all brands and stores now, on page 1. Those used to be on page 2.

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W.P. Allen

12 years ago

How 'bout them apples:

Google's an a$$hole.

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Craig McPherson 12 years ago

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

How 'bout them apples:

Google's an a$.

OUCH!!!!

I have also had my sites pants pulled down and severely spanked.
I mean big time

It is times like this that your list comes to the rescue.

Soldier on
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kindsvater

12 years ago

My impression: to fight spam and junk pages Google has over-emphasized "trustworthy" sites regardless of their actual content.

Large brand sites are now controlling significantly more real estate at the top of the search listings.

It is not a content issue. Some of these sites, like eBay, are throwing up short pages, duplicate junk, and "doorway" pages as fast as they can to take advantage of the situation.

While what you would normally consider quality content sites are pushed down. I am seeing this over and over for various product searches.

Brand reputation rules.

.

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Cool Hand Luke

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

My impression: to fight spam and junk pages Google has over-emphasized "trustworthy" sites regardless of their actual content.

Large brand sites are now controlling significantly more real estate at the top of the search listings.

It is not a content issue. Some of these sites, like eBay, are throwing up short pages, duplicate junk, and "doorway" pages as fast as they can to take advantage of the situation.

While what you would normally consider quality content sites are pushed down. I am seeing this over and over for various product searches.

Brand reputation rules.

.

This is exactly what I've been noticing too. For example, one of my sites in the electronic niche went from #5 to #9 for it's main keyword, bumped by several VERY low quality (low information and not very relevant to the search) pages by Cnet, Amazon, and a 3-year old article by Yahoo that isn't even related! All of these pages are of less use to potential visitors than mine. I'm seeing a LOT of junk pages secure 1st page positions as well.

Google is shooting itself in the foot with this one, A LOT of relevant content by a lot of different sites got pushed down. I'd expect them to be "rolling back" some of these changes soon.

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

This is exactly what I've been noticing too. For example, one of my sites in the electronic niche went from #5 to #9 for it's main keyword, bumped by several VERY low quality (low information and not very relevant to the search) pages by Cnet, Amazon, and a 3-year old article by Yahoo that isn't even related! All of these pages are of less use to potential visitors than mine. I'm seeing a LOT of junk pages secure 1st page positions as well.

Google is shooting itself in the foot with this one, A LOT of relevant content by a lot of different sites got pushed down. I'd expect them to be "rolling back" some of these changes soon.

Perhaps they dont know what the algorithm will do in action until they actually implement it, then they go back to the guys who wrote it and say, WTF is this garbage that this thing is pushing onto the first page

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vij

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Yes, I'm seeing this too, although I'm also seeing one or too very poor sites mixed in too, including one that doesn't even work (you just get a 404 error when you click on the link).

I'm sure they aren't going to leave things like that. Just need to wait and see what happens in the next week

Happens everytime. They do an update and leave sh1t floating around and then they do a second sweep to tone things down. But what's to be seen is if the sweep is going to make things better or...

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kindsvater 12 years ago

Definitely some ranking changes since yesterday.

Seems to be a continuation of the trend this year in Google:

Big brand sites have a more significant presence at the top of search.

Maybe Google should be renamed the AWE: Amazon/Wikipedia/eBay search engine.

.
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davidrock011 12 years ago

Ok, I have a health niche blog with all unique high quality articles. The blog is 1 year old.
The funny thing is that yesterday I had all time record in organic traffic. However, this morning I had a big drop in rankings. 3 keywords that were ranked #1 dropped to 3,4 place. Some long tails moved to the second page.
I would say that I am on 50% than regular traffic.
The site uses Adsense (3 units on every page).

Hope it's not permanent....
:confused:
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JSProjects

12 years ago

Depends on the niche. Google, IMO, has always given a slight preference to aged / authority sites in broad & competitive niches. I haven't seen any changes on my end. But I mainly focus on micro niches.

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bummed.out

12 years ago

No change over here, yet. All site's rankings are still down. Sigh. Revenue is about a tenth of what it would normally be. If this is temporary, how long, typically, do such shifts last before things bounce back?

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pilotemt963

12 years ago

I have noticed a change in my rankings also. Two of my top sites moved from #1 to #4 and #5.

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pilotemt963

12 years ago

One thing I noticed is that the sites that moved up for my keywords, are newer domains and they have only a fraction of the links and link diversity.

I'm going to try adding more content on a regular basis for the next little while and keep building links. Hopefully it will even out eventually.

Thanks
1 reply

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ZypreX

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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oox

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ZypreX

I too have seen good results in my newer sites, I think it is because of both good content AND low volume link building focusing on quality. This really works for me anyway, and even with the october 13 update I dident really feel anything.

OOO really, maybe i should buy into the links you're sellin and the same will happen for me as you seem to be beatin everyone else on here

lmao

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moverspacker 12 years ago

Hi,

There is not effect at our websites. All of our websites are working well and have same position
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mkl3377

12 years ago

Just from my sites, a lot of my EMD affiliate product sites were hit. Google seems to be bumbing the big product store sites up the serps.(another crackdown on Affiliate sites?) My adsense sites seem to have remained relatively the same.(knock on wood). Hopefully it is just a temporary shift and things will be back in a few days...(fingers crossed)

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crescendo

12 years ago

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bcmwp 12 years ago

I've noticed a large change as well, and so far today, I have about 1/3 the visits I normally have for a Friday (it's 6:42).

I googled my sites for their main keywords, and found they went from 1>2, 1>3, 2>9 and 3>8. These are sites that have held their position for over a year.

So, something's up. The ads are paying fine, but the problem seems to be traffic.
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WealthWithin

12 years ago

Yep. Definitely an update. Lost a few #1 rankings in few sites, one site went from 100 visits to 14 visits.

This is not the typical google dance.

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treezie

12 years ago

Apparently Matt Cutts tweeted about this update

Google Warns of Another Algorithm Update | Vortex Blog

And Brett over at Webmasterworld predicted it...

prediction: Florida-like Update Before End of Year Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld

What you can do...

http://www.wordpressseomarketing.com...gorithm-update

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Jasonsc

12 years ago

My main KW has dropped from rank 6 to 27 overnight. My competitors still have their rankings on the first page. Really hope this is temporary...

All my secondary keywords dropped completely off anywhere near the top.

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treezie

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Jasonsc

My main KW has dropped from rank 6 to 27 overnight. My competitors still have their rankings on the first page. Really hope this is temporary...

All my secondary keywords dropped completely off anywhere near the top.

Have your competitors been in the Top 10 longer? That's what I noticed for one of my keywords too...that I was the only one that dropped. But I also knew that I was the newest addition to the Top 10. I was #4, now I'm #11.

My other keyword, #1, dropped to #2, with Wikipedia taking over the #1 spot.

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RayW

12 years ago

A couple of my sites have gone down 1-2 positions and a couple other have moved up 2-3 positions. Anyone have any idea what kind of sites the update has effected?

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ruff

12 years ago

I think this is definitely an update. The rankings on my new site started dropping last Thursday (it's Saturday morning right now in PH). Much like what was experienced by many of what I read here. The site is 2 months old, so I'm guessing that's not authority so it got a really massive hit. I already managed to get to 2nd page on a really competitive niche (I was very serious about this site) but right now all of my pages were gone in the Google rankings. Market Samurai can't even find a single page from 1000 search page results. T_T

They are still indexed though, so I guess I'll try to work on it more for a few months and hope for the best.

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InitialEffort

12 years ago

I still need a little more data but this is what I am finding.

1. High PR links got more value

2. Link Diversity Counted for more - Multiple IPs, Multiple Anchors, Mix of Text and Contextual

3. No Onpage Changes were noticeable

4. Aged sites got valued just a little bit more

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George Curtis 12 years ago

Initial Effort,

I definitely agree. We are seeing more value with high PR links.

It was just a matter of time before Google started more and more looking at the COMPLETE link profile. The algorithm has improved, obviously.

It is UNNATURAL to have a brand new site and 10 PR6s pointing to it. By the same token... it is also unnatural to have 10,000 forum profile links pointing to a domain.

Gimmicks do work, but only temporarily.
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SilentX 12 years ago

How did you come up with these results so quickly? Can you provide any background to give your claims weight? Not trying to say you're wrong, just curious how you come to make these statements.
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InTheMaking 12 years ago

My sites were fine, (Which are thin affiliat/cpa/adsense sites)

My brothers however who builds legitimate websites took a huge hit on 2 of his websites.

One of his websites I personally did about 20-25 high PR guest posting contextual backlinks for over a months time to move up a couple spots jumped back 1 spot further then it was at the beginning.

Another website (making $400 or more daily) completely disappeared.

I can't make anything of it..
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RayW 12 years ago

Along with updating their algorithm, i think they may also be testing out new SERP formats - I just did a search recently and there were 20 results displayed on the first page as opposed to the usual 10! Anyone else see this too?
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d0rhk

12 years ago

Im gonna have to agree with the OPs findings.

I had sites that were cemented in the #1, 2 spots that were there for over 5 months. I never did any high pr backlinking, just some weird spammy things I picked up when I started making sites. They were there up until last night.

The sites I did do high pr backlinking on, varied the link profile greatly and just generally did way better seo on, moved UP in the rankings... some went up +10 spots overnight

(micro niche sites i'm building)

Overall it looks like people who rely on spam tactics or just generally poor link building techniques are getting hit.. HARD.

Spam comments, spam profiles, etc etc are all being de-valued and to be honest, I think some people are hurting themselves either in the long run or short run. Some people think getting 24624721477 xrumer links will put them ahead when in reality it'll set them wayy back.

Anyways thats all my $0.02 so think what you want

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Dellco 12 years ago

I don't think spammy link building tactics are the main reason, I've observed some sites (not mine) that were stuck in the top 3 for YEARS, and they have very strong/varied backlink profiles, now ditched back to page 4 (and lost their sitelinks as well).

This mega update probably affected 25-50% of the Web. Just wait for the statistics.
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carp104

12 years ago

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

Thanks
2 replies

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bcmwp

12 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

What is BMR building?

Thanks
1 reply

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ProdigyMike

12 years ago

Originally Posted by bcmwp

What is BMR building?

I think he is referring to the use of the Build My Rank blog network.

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InitialEffort

12 years ago

I am currently managing rankings for over 100 clients, so I have a macro view of what is happening and can quickly assess and compare many different websites. About 75% of my clients are up or stayed the same and about 25% are down slightly with only 2-3 being hit hard. I know I use different link building techniques than most people have accessible to them, which is why I am seeing different results than most. I was expecting to login to the forums and see rejoicing, but I found just the opposite.

So I analyzed and compared the sites that got hit hard vs the sites that had a sight decrease vs the sites that stayed the same vs the increases.

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by InitialEffort

I am currently managing rankings for over 100 clients, so I have a macro view of what is happening and can quickly assess and compare many different websites. About 75% of my clients are up or stayed the same and about 25% are down slightly with only 2-3 being hit hard. I know I use different link building techniques than most people have accessible to them, which is why I am seeing different results than most. I was expecting to login to the forums and see rejoicing, but I found just the opposite.

So I analyzed and compared the sites that got hit hard vs the sites that had a sight decrease vs the sites that stayed the same vs the increases.

you say you analyzed , what was the reason you think the sites that got hit, got hit?

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by carp104

All of my sites fell 4 to 12 spots for all my targeted keywords, literally overnight I have virtually lost almost all my online income, both with adsense and amazon.

I used primarily BMR building 1 to 2 links daily to each site varying the anchor text. Threw in some forum profile and blog comment links once in a while, apparently this isnt enough

Whatever happened last night was FAR WORSE than the panda update

Can those of you with sites that have risen please elaborate on your backlink strategy a little more? How many and what types of links are you building?

To use BMR properly you should utilize all 10 links every day. Focus on ONE keyword term and one page until you get the ranks that you want for it. After you have obtained the rank you want then move on to the next keyword and page.

-- Jeff

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Love2Blog

12 years ago

Originally Posted by d0rhk

Im gonna have to agree with the OPs findings.

I had sites that were cemented in the #1, 2 spots that were there for over 5 months. I never did any high pr backlinking, just some weird spammy things I picked up when I started making sites. They were there up until last night.

The sites I did do high pr backlinking on, varied the link profile greatly and just generally did way better seo on, moved UP in the rankings... some went up +10 spots overnight

(micro niche sites i'm building)

Overall it looks like people who rely on spam tactics or just generally poor link building techniques are getting hit.. HARD.

Spam comments, spam profiles, etc etc are all being de-valued and to be honest, I think some people are hurting themselves either in the long run or short run. Some people think getting 24624721477 xrumer links will put them ahead when in reality it'll set them wayy back.

Anyways thats all my $0.02 so think what you want

You are totally right, Google is hitting those sites that use link schemes hard, they've been for some time and I think a new update is being worked on to weed out even more of theses tactics and those useless link bombs, xrumer, profiles, SEnuke...all very harmful and dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.

Links to money sites should never be so aggressive and manual and spammy.

Who else but the site owner would put up 5000 profile links to the same site, totally obvious!!!

Quality, Slow and Steady VS Quantity and Super Fast - that's the only way to go these days.

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vij

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Love2Blog

You are totally right, Google is hitting those sites that use link schemes hard, they've been for some time and I think a new update is being worked on to weed out even more of theses tactics and those useless link bombs, xrumer, profiles, SEnuke...all very harmful and dangerous and should be avoided like the plague.

Links to money sites should never be so aggressive and manual and spammy.

Who else but the site owner would put up 5000 profile links to the same site, totally obvious!!!

Quality, Slow and Steady VS Quantity and Super Fast - that's the only way to go these days.

Trust me - on an established site, the penalties cannot be given out so very obviously. Penalties can happen for what you are stating but if they start implementing that across the board like a 'perfect science' then people will be spamming their competitors out of business. Again, I am not saying that there cannot be link based penalties, but you get my point---I hope.

Now, this is relevant:
http://www.potpiegirl.com/2011/10/ho...rithm-changes/

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Rick B

12 years ago

Originally Posted by vij

Penalties can happen for what you are stating but if they start implementing that across the board like a 'perfect science' then people will be spamming their competitors out of business.

I agree with you that Google won't Penalize sites for spammy links because competitors could spam your site but what I'm convinced Google is doing is drastically discounting the value of spammy links if not totally ignoring them.

So sites that were benefiting from lots of those types of links simply lost their benefit in this update. They weren't punished, they just lost their ill-gotten gains.

I know there are people who don't feel that explains their particular situation. It's unlikely that is the only thing that this update targeted but it sure looks to me like that was the major factor.

There have been very few posts here about sites with mostly spammy backlinks that are unaffected or up in traffic. For those few I'd bet they are either sites that have something else Google really likes about them, the vast majority of their backlinks are of a type that Google hasn't targeted yet, the poster is a seller of spammy backlinks so the post is suspect or there's some other logical explanation that doesn't mean that spammy links weren't discounted.

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bhuff85 12 years ago

I have to disagree. I have a few sites that have some high quality, high PR links pointing to them (in addition to links from article directories, web 2.0 sites, social bookmarks and some directories), and some of these sites took a dip. I have other sites that stayed the same. Some sites are older, while others are more recently created.

Either way, I just keep on trucking. Seems when I keep rolling along, things eventually come back to shape. Just gotta keep on building links and adding content to your website.
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jonkjonk 12 years ago

Very interesting. I saw this earlier today and didn't make much of it given none of my sites moved much if at all.

THEN I went to check the SERPs and while I seem to have the same position, the competition has been shaken up massively... wow. I did some competitive analysis on a Guru to pick some of his niches when I started and he has lost his number 1s
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RayW

12 years ago

After looking at quite a few sites that moved up and down in rankings after this update, I can come to one common theme among sites that went down in rankings: high ads-to-content ratio. Sites with lots of affiliate links and not a lot of content seem to have definitely taken a hit.
I don't think the update has anything to do with high pr backlinks.

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RayW

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

Those sites may have been hit, but i disagree that its about the content.

My site that took a hit has about 20 articles, hand-written, original and over 1000 words each. There are only 3 links in each article. Thats about 25,000 words and only 60 links. Doesnt seem like that's excessive.

3 affiliate links per article isn't a lot?...

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InitialEffort

12 years ago

@raxr - I will disagree, we currently own the top slots for some keywords that get between 100,000 exact match searches to 5 million exact match searches per month. When I say top positions I mean 1 through 5. We have some sites with pop-up ads, exit pop-ups, 50 affiliate links on the homepage etc.

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by InitialEffort

@raxr - I will disagree, we currently own the top slots for some keywords that get between 100,000 exact match searches to 5 million exact match searches per month. When I say top positions I mean 1 through 5. We have some sites with pop-up ads, exit pop-ups, 50 affiliate links on the homepage etc.

Did you get hit , with this update ? Initial ?

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ro1h02n4 12 years ago

Yup. One of the sites that produce me almost 30% of my AdSense earnings is now on 7th position. Until yesterday it was 1st spot for several moths for the main keyword.
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- rinor81 12 years ago
  
  Guys,
  
  You are talking here about a fall of 1-3 places...from #2 to #7 and so on...
  
  One of my sites got hit hard at all its inner pages and keywords...want to know what hard means?
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #45
  
  Keyword that was #5 is now #38
  
  Keyword that was #4 is now #11
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #20
  
  Keyword that was #10-#11 is now #138!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  If anyone suffered the most of this Google crap it's me and this is a money site for me.
  
  Now what's my next move? Keep on building links and adding content? What's Google's next move?
  
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ruff 12 years ago

Well, my site is fairly new, about 2 months old but I thought I was building it right with good quality content and multi-tier linking. I was on 2nd page of Google for one of the terms I'm targeting, so I really thought I'm already getting there. Then suddenly, the site and all of the pages got kicked out of the rankings. Can't even find it within the 1000th results.

The site is not spammy on ads in any way. I don't even have Adsense on it because I would like to use Adsense only after the site is getting enough traffic - which it did not get to have.

The site does not have high PR links yet. Aside from being unnatural, I'm not into that point yet in my link building activities.

So there, with this 1 site I think Google punished me for being very new to the game and having no high PR links. My only plan right now is to keep adding content as I always have and keep building links as I always have too - maybe even get into building high PR links.

In my mind, I haven't done anything wrong so if this does not correct itself within a few months, I will have to reboot everything and maybe will be left a little discouraged about the system. I guess in a way, that's the comfortable thing about being new.
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Oranges 12 years ago

<rant>
I'm completely screwed! Lost all my rankings, earnings! Feels like i was struck by lightening. I hate this BS! Dammit And Hey! Matt cutts and all his gay buddies and nerdy engineers, can now go back and play with their dildos, as the algo update is over and people are screwed to death!
</rant>
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outwest

12 years ago

Strangely none of the THIN one or two page EMDs i bought for backlinking my resort site, and I mean most of these have like 10 backlinks dropped at all, and I at least have 10 of these sites

is there a theme like , most of the sites that dropped for you guys are product theme sites?
I mean that kind of defines the site as an affiliate site, even without the product links being there

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Dellco

12 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

Strangely none of the THIN one or two page EMDs i bought for backlinking my resort site, and I mean most of these have like 10 backlinks dropped at all, and I at least have 10 of these sites

is there a theme like , most of the sites that dropped for you guys are product theme sites?
I mean that kind of defines the site as an affiliate site, even without the product links being there

If those thin sites have no monetization on them, I bet they are safe. I'm also seeing thin sites and even parked pages ranking well now.

It seems a common denominator for the sites that fell, is either using Adsense or affiliate links.

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rinor81 12 years ago

This is idiotic...

Why would Google downgrade a site with AdSense? They make their money from this...

One of my sites that got hit is an affiliate site with Amazon...
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JRemington

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

If those thin sites have no monetization on them, I bet they are safe. I'm also seeing thin sites and even parked pages ranking well now.

It seems a common denominator for the sites that fell, is either using Adsense or affiliate links.

Half of the sites on the net then, at least. Still, I have no idea why Google would penalise adsense sites, they are the main earners from it.

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Dellco

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JRemington

Half of the sites on the net then, at least. Still, I have no idea why Google would penalise adsense sites, they are the main earners from it.

It would make sense if you remember that the Adsense dept is separate from the Search department. What the Search department wants is different from what the Adsense dept wants.

The Adsense dept will always tell you to MAX out your ad units and even place them above the fold.

But you know, this will get you in trouble with the Search dept (excessive ads lead to penalties).

This is an internal conflict within Google.

And one more thing, Google doesn't really need the money from Adsense for Content (the ads displayed on publisher websites). They have been moving away from this since years ago, and they are flush with money.

Too much money.

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dellco

And one more thing, Google doesn't really need the money from Adsense for Content (the ads displayed on publisher websites). They have been moving away from this since years ago, and they are flush with money.

Too much money.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That would be like Apple saying they are going to stop selling the iPad because they have plenty of money already.

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stelweb

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That would be like Apple saying they are going to stop selling the iPad because they have plenty of money already.

But if you think hard and long about it, you will also realize that adsense is the impetus for a ton of sites that look like crap. I guess the search team recently had their last straw and decided to do something about it. On the other hand, there are plenty of sites using above the fold adsense ads and are also good quality sites. If they have been hit too, i would only call it collateral damage and that is such a shame.

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vij

12 years ago

Its an update. A lot of my sites have dropped 2-3 places. Some results for my keywords have funny results. I expect another rumble before the final settle(if you know what I mean).

From the horse's mouth

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rinor81 12 years ago

My update:

It seems my main keywords which lead to the home page of the sites are intact, maybe lost 1-2 spots but no more....but one of my sites which brings good money suffered when all my inner pages and sub-keywords got hit bad that I can't find them anywhere and they were on page 1 prior to the update.

Ideas now that we know this was an update? Keep building links and adding content as before??

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- rinor81 12 years ago
  
  Update 2:
  
  One of my money site which I've mentioned got hit the most, I found the inner pages and their keywords and I can't believe it....
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #45
  
  Keyword that was #5 is now #38
  
  Keyword that was #4 is now #11
  
  Keyword that was #8 is now #20
  
  Keyword that was #10-#11 is now #138!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Now what the hell do I need to do? Remember this is a site with good content, links built manually and it is my money site....what should I do now? I simply want to cry....
  
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Oranges

12 years ago

From $100/day to $13 today!
I hate this game!

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Dellco 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Oranges

From $100/day to $13 today!
I hate this game!

Big drop there. Not easy to build up to $100.

That's why it's called a GAME....

Adsense-SEO game is strictly for those who like torturing themselves.
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Mega B

12 years ago

Have noticed a few changes but nothing major,if you keep building quality links and adding decent content you wont have anything to worry about,yes they do fluctuate but if you want to stay up at the top you have to remember SEO is a ongoing job.

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dagaul101

12 years ago

Google has always rewarded aged sites, but now it becomes more apparent as it punishes those that attempt to get high rankings too quickly, and unnaturally

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Jasonsc

12 years ago

Today one of my keywords (I guess you'd call it my main keyword) for which I have an exact match domain came back. It had been 6th, then dropped to 27th yesterday and now today is 2nd. However I was ranking top page for two other keywords as well and these are nowhere to be seen.

However, I do notice many other sites rankingwell that I've never seen before. They have exact match domains for the keywords.
It doesn't make sense that this update would give more weight to exact match domains, because that could mean very low quality sites ranking well more reasily and undermining a lot of hard work by google thus far.

Awaiting further information...

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stelweb

12 years ago

I saw deeply into what is happening atm. I looked up some of the kw [ that has the potential to make more than 100 dollars per day] in google and find that some of the sites ranking at the top that were using adsense got hit. Their competitors who were not using CPC came up. I guess this is a war against sites that use CPC for monetization. On the other hand, i am sure not all sites that use CPC will get hit. Only those that fit a profile G has in mind.

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Oranges

12 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

I saw deeply into what is happening atm. I looked up some of the kw [ that has the potential to make more than 100 dollars per day] in google and find that some of the sites ranking at the top that were using adsense got hit. Their competitors who were not using CPC came up. I guess this is a war against sites that use CPC for monetization. On the other hand, i am sure not all sites that use CPC will get hit. Only those that fit a profile G has in mind.

That's Pure BS!
To me it looks like a random update to confuse webmasters with what exactly works and what doesn't when it comes to SEO. And that is all done to stop people putting their efforts on SEO and start buying their PPC crap!

"Hey! Shopping and holiday season is on the door, let's screw some webmasters and force 'em to use PPC.":rolleyes:

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Rukshan

12 years ago

Yeah SERP has decreased! Now I'm adding more quality content to all sites. Let's see

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Steve Faber

12 years ago

1) People that are saying Google is penalizing sites that use Adsense need to take a step back and get away from the crack pipe. That makes absolutely no sense. They may be penalizing sites that are similar to the MFA sites from 5 years ago, but to think that they are penalizing sites simply because they use GOOGLE's OWN ADVERTISING PROGRAM just doesn't hold water. That is G's primary revenue source, and they are far from stupid over there in Happy Valley.

What I've noticed:
Lost major traffic on 5 of the 8 sites in my main portfolio. One site that has been getting over 250 visitors a day for years is now getting about 50, and one that was getting over 300 is now getting about 40. These sites have very little in common. I've used a different backlink profile on them. Some I've used both SEOL and BMR on, some of them one or the other, and others neither one.

3 are WP blogs, 1 is a MoveableType blog, and one is a static site built with a Yahoo Sitebuilder tool. They are hosted at three different hosting companies, on 4 different servers, and are in 4 completely different niches.

Age is between 7 years and 1.5 years. One has over 12,000 natural backlinks and I've not used any of the backlink networks on it. That site has over 600 pages of totally unique content, and has links to it from several big name authority sites, such as The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, although these are a few years old. That site has also not been updated in a long time. Tracking is Sitemeter.

One of the others has over 200 pages of unique, high quality content, with images (but no video). It is over 2.5 years old, and has a fairly high bounce rate, but an average time on site of over 4 minutes, which is very high. It went from over 300 visitors a day to 75. That one I've used BMR and SEOL on, in addition to plenty of natural link building.

I use no forum or other profile links for backlinking on any of my sites.

I really see no correlation between the amount of content, site/domain age, backlinking profile, monetization, etc.

One of my WP blogs that has only about 50 pages, but all high quality content, saw very little effect. It has plenty of affiliate links on it, and I've used BMR and SEOL on it, in addition to lots of natural link building. It's been getting over 300 uniques a day, and it still looks to be doing so. I haven't posted on it since December 2010, however.

Yes, it sucks, and hopefully for smaller marketers they are not giving an edge to the larger, Fortune 1000 sites with well established brand names, but we'll just have to wait and see how ti all shakes out.

I would suggest getting a hold of a copy of Google's 2011 Handbook for Manual Reviewers and looking at exactly what they want their human reviewers to rank sites on, then do exactly that. Here is an interesting blog post from Pot Pie Girl, where you can find a link to download it. She makes a number of other interesting observations about Google's algo updates as well.
Google Algo Changes and Google Manual Reviews - How It Works | PotPieGirl.com

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stelweb

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

1) People that are saying Google is penalizing sites that use Adsense need to take a step back and get away from the crack pipe. That makes absolutely no sense. They may be penalizing sites that are similar to the MFA sites from 5 years ago, but to think that they are penalizing sites simply because they use GOOGLE's OWN ADVERTISING PROGRAM just doesn't hold water. That is G's primary revenue source, and they are far from stupid over there in Happy Valley.

What I've noticed:
Lost major traffic on 5 of the 8 sites in my main portfolio. One site that has been getting over 250 visitors a day for years is now getting about 50, and one that was getting over 300 is now getting about 40. These sites have very little in common. I've used a different backlink profile on them. Some I've used both SEOL and BMR on, some of them one or the other, and others neither one.

3 are WP blogs, 1 is a MoveableType blog, and one is a static site built with a Yahoo Sitebuilder tool. They are hosted at three different hosting companies, on 4 different servers, and are in 4 completely different niches.

Age is between 7 years and 1.5 years. One has over 12,000 natural backlinks and I've not used any of the backlink networks on it. That site has over 600 pages of totally unique content, and has links to it from several big name authority sites, such as The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post, although these are a few years old. That site has also not been updated in a long time. Tracking is Sitemeter.

One of the others has over 200 pages of unique, high quality content, with images (but no video). It is over 2.5 years old, and has a fairly high bounce rate, but an average time on site of over 4 minutes, which is very high. It went from over 300 visitors a day to 75. That one I've used BMR and SEOL on, in addition to plenty of natural link building.

I use no forum or other profile links for backlinking on any of my sites.

I really see no correlation between the amount of content, site/domain age, backlinking profile, monetization, etc.

One of my WP blogs that has only about 50 pages, but all high quality content, saw very little effect. It has plenty of affiliate links on it, and I've used BMR and SEOL on it, in addition to lots of natural link building. It's been getting over 300 uniques a day, and it still looks to be doing so. I haven't posted on it since December 2010, however.

Yes, it sucks, and hopefully for smaller marketers they are not giving an edge to the larger, Fortune 1000 sites with well established brand names, but we'll just have to wait and see how ti all shakes out.

I would suggest getting a hold of a copy of Google's 2011 Handbook for Manual Reviewers and looking at exactly what they want their human reviewers to rank sites on, then do exactly that. Here is an interesting blog post from Pot Pie Girl, where you can find a link to download it. She makes a number of other interesting observations about Google's algo updates as well.
Google Algo Changes and Google Manual Reviews - How It Works | PotPieGirl.com

Why would you say adsense is their primary revenue source? It is NOT. They make most of their income through ads shown on search [ not through the publishers ]. As for the recent changes, i am not saying every site using adsense is prone to get hit. I suspect those that use above the fold ads have higher chances of getting hit. That is just my opinion.

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Steve Faber

12 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

Why would you say adsense is their primary revenue source? It is NOT. They make most of their income through ads shown on search [ not through the publishers ]. As for the recent changes, i am not saying every site using adsense is prone to get hit. I suspect those that use above the fold ads have higher chances of getting hit. That is just my opinion.

Sorry, you are correct in that, but they make a substantial amount of revenue from the Adsense program nonetheless. Also, Google advocates above the fold placement in their heat map documentation, why would they penalize it? Not that they've never done anything contradictory before, of course.

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stelweb

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Faber

Sorry, you are correct in that, but they make a substantial amount of revenue from the Adsense program nonetheless. Also, Google advocates above the fold placement in their heat map documentation, why would they penalize it? Not that they've never done anything contradictory before, of course.

Google search and adsense are entirely different things. Adsense gives us the heat map while the search team despises above the fold ads that look like something shoved into the throat of the searchers. They tend to think that the leaderboard ads on the right top or ads on the sidebar are much better choices. And rightly so, wouldn't you say? By the way, my site got hit too and it was using Infolinks above the fold. I guess we just got to wait and see what happens.

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Steve Faber

12 years ago

Originally Posted by stelweb

Google search and adsense are entirely different things. Adsense gives us the heat map while the search team despises above the fold ads that look like something shoved into the throat of the searchers. They tend to think that the leaderboard ads on the right top or ads on the sidebar are much better choices. And rightly so, wouldn't you say? By the way, my site got hit too and it was using Infolinks above the fold. I guess we just got to wait and see what happens.

Yes, I know search and Adsense are entirely different things.

If what you say is true, maybe the right and left hand over it the big G don't know what each other are doing. It's not great that the Adsense team advocates one strategy, while the search team penalizes it. Counter productive, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Chiayee

Sorry, I beg to differ.

Many site are built with valuable contents and quality backlinks, and they got hit.

I can quote two affected sites in the last updates:

DaniWeb IT Discussion Community
Ask the Builder - The Home Improvement Resource

Both are aged authority sites, with tons of top notch articles and backlinks from other authority sites.

DaniWeb is a very well known and popular site, obviously not spammy at all, with a PR6 main page and an Alexa rank of under 1,500. It makes one wonder what G is really looking for with all this.

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bcmwp 12 years ago

Steve,

I had the exact same experience. My four biggest earning sites were all hit hard, and three of them had very little in common (two of them were fairly similar). One was a squeaky-white SBI! site with lots of pictures. Another was built out of an old micro niche site that had been doing especially well.

What I've noticed from what people are saying is that there seems to be no pattern at all to what happened. One of my sites should have absolutely aced any manual review, but got hit. People have had micro-nice, authority, young, old, grey hat, white hat, outlinking, not outlinking, adsense, non-adsense, etc. sites all slammed. There just seems to be no pattern, and I have no idea what to fix.
- Thanks
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- Jasonsc 12 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
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  cagliostro 12 years ago
  
  To add my situation to the puzzle:
  
  9 websites, all hosted in the same ip/server.
  
  My main $ website, 7 years old, gets now half of the traffic. And money.
  
  My other 5 years old (travel) website lost a lot of ranking. My main keyword went from page 2 to ... i have no idea where (not in top 100 searches). Other keywords went several pages back.
  
  Other projects i run are ok for the moment. All my websites are running Adsense and Analytics.
  
  Thanks
  
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Dellco

12 years ago

My portfolio is very diverse as well, and use HTML/WordPress/Joomla. Most got hit (mostly small hits....a few bigger ones). When you add them all up, it is BIG.

The only ones that were not touched were EMDs, and those NOT monetized at all. Yes, I have sites I make not for money.....strange as that may seem around here.

Google seems to have valued EMDs perhaps even more, with this nonsense update. Considering most EMD sites are nonsense....

All those that were hit have one thing in common - monetization.

People who cannot understand why would Google hit Adsense sites really do not understand ALL the motivations of Google and other huge global companies....and should not sneer at those who suggest so, because strange as that may seem, Google is not all about the money, as I've said before.

And for someone who has sites with no monetization, I can understand why. Google definitely has their own agendas. Just (one) agenda can be seen here - Google.org - Google Technology-Driven Philanthropy

I'm willing to bet very few guys here even know about this. Google does not promote it at all.

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1 reply

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natethegreat7037

12 years ago

It cracks me up how much this update throws everyone into a frenzy. And then start suggesting all of these solutions to help fight it (I've seen about 18 different remedies).

First off, Google makes an absolute killing off of their ad sales so why would they punish people who promote them? In case you forgot, Google makes about 49% of the cpc...and you do the work promoting the traffic. Why would they stop doing that?? Here's an excerpt from Barrons, which mentions how google crushed wall street expectations:

Bottom-line earnings per share were reported at $9.72, significantly better than the Street/our estimates at $8.74/$8.92.
The 28% paid click growth in the third quarter was the highest paid click growth reported since the fourth-quarter of 2007 on our estimates. While there is likely a mix shift coming from more mobile searches, international and AdSense partners, the paid click growth was impressive.
With the higher volume and mix shift, cost per click was lower as a result, up 5% year-over-year (or down 3% excluding foreign exchange).
Mobile advertising continues to be a strong growth driver and likely drove a significant ramp in 28% paid click growth. Considering the near-term focus is on building the critical mass of mobile search than monetization, we think the $2.5 billion run rate signals that we are at an inflection point of mobile volume growth.
Display advertising continues to grow strongly and Google noted that its top 20 customers are now spending an average of $15 million compared to just $2 million in 2009.

So, it seems Google is just focusing on ways to EXPAND their advertising reach...Hm. After all, I've never seen a ton of insects in a tiny spider web.

So, here's a question: How does paid click growth happen? Chances are, you guessed it right.

Just ride it out for a few days, before getting hysterical.

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TheFBGuy 12 years ago

This little site with 9 high quality unique articles survived every Panda update... never thought I would see this day. That little site was as white hat as it gets. That's why I don't waste time building these large sites, but micro niche sites. Seems like this update has no regard for whatever you do whether it's white hat or black hat, so it's not clear what Google's main objective is so far.

Still accessing the situation... and what the next course of action should be. What are the new rules now? I really thought I had SEO figured out, damn. Any statement from Google?
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Texjd

12 years ago

Ran my reports this morning and about gagged on my coffee. The traffic was down across the board. My webiste are very diverse and many are 7-8 year old authorty sites that get a steady flow of fresh content that's all real deal. I don't use writers and most of my websites are about my areas of knowledge.

I went and checked a few serps and many of my #1 are now #5 or 6. Nothing disappeared nor got de-ndexed. My websites are diverse as you can get on different categories, format, location, and linkng.

Based on about an hour of analysis I see no one or even a couple of common factors.

I've been through this many times and I just continue to do what I do since I have no idea what the cause is at this point. Traffic down by 2/3, same with revenue.

I'm still on the frontpage so there is hope the websites will recover, but who knows.

I'm going forget about it for today and go on with my work and play.

Thanks

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InitialEffort

12 years ago

Looks like my thread my merged, I also like how someone is reusing the heart image I made. Good stuff.

But my sites were relatively untouched as I described. I am very pleased with this update.

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dp40oz

12 years ago

Many people are running around like a chicken with their head cut off looking for answers as to why their sites got slapped in this last Google update. I completely understand, having a site/sites that you've put tons of work into get pushed down in the rankings is a terrible feeling and can be financially crippling, I have, and I constantly do experience this first hand.

The Reality

- Many Google SERP changes are there solely to help hide their algorithm.

They will push pages around to ensure that there is no absolute way to game rankings. Even if your page is aged and backlinked well. This has been a main job of Panda. Its not always that theres anything wrong.

- Panda's rules are there because thats what Google would like your site to be, its not necessarily what panda looks at though

Comparing sites with many colleagues over all the different Panda algos has left many of us with the same conclusion. The rules Google has told us will keep us safe are just their way of trying to get us all to "fall in line". Many great sites that follow every rule that Panda should like and reward, get penalized, just like many sites that break all rules stay at the top. Panda doesn't do what Google tells us it does.

- The rules are highly subjective as to keep us guessing and to give Google an excuse as to why sites were punished

With the rules set in place Google could make an argument that any site in the world could or should be penalized. Google could claim Apple.com has too much duplicate content, or pages with too little content if it wanted to.

- Don't kill yourself looking for answers

With any SERP change your site can come back in a few weeks and never be penalized again. On the other hand you may constantly be in a back and forth swing... who knows.

When it has been stated publicly that the algorithm has elements built in to keep you guessing, then trying to look for answers like 1 + 1 =2 is pointless. For site A, 1 + 1=2 about 90% of the time but for site B 1 + 1=2, 20% of the time. Its no fun for us but its how these things work.

It is what it is. SEO is a wild ride. To sustain a living, my advice is to have many different sites. Also developing a few tricks up your sleeve never hurts also.

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ElectronPlumber

12 years ago

Let's use the tremendous wisdom and experience on this forum to figure out EXACTLY what Google changed in their algorithm in the Halloween Massacre SERP update. Admins, please don't lump this thread in with the "Anyone Noticed Changes In Google SERPS" discussion that is mostly just people complaining.

Post what you know that can help this effort! If you have five sites that went down and five that weren't, please post EVERY DETAIL about the differences that you can think of.

Please post DETAILS of your experience and lets see if collectively figure this out. I'll keep this list updated as more people post.

FACTS:

There was a wide reaching algorithm update on October 14th at around 2am.
The change was confirmed by Matt Cutts via a Tweet, although not the wide reach.

SPECULATION:

On page SEO factors were reduced in value.
Proper spelling and grammar increased in value.
High PR backlinks increased in value.
Internal linking decreased in value.
Exact Match Domains increased in value.
Adsense and Ads decreased in value.

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stelweb 12 years ago

One of my sites got affected [say site1] while the other [let us call it site 2] did not. Actually, the traffic for site2 is up 400 percent.

Here are the differences:

site1:
1. monetized with CPC
2. crap comment links
3. decent content

site2:

1.not monetized yet
2.has only a few links [just directory submissions]
3.excellent content created by experienced professionals in the field [not professional writers]
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ElectronPlumber 12 years ago

My Experience:

Site #1:
One of my oldest and best sites was hit with now 50% lower traffic. I had done very little backlinking on this site other than some social media and manual blog commenting. It has about 600 pages of manual high quality content and is regularly updated. Many keywords that were ranking #1-3 are now ranking #3-7 instead.

What I noticed is that the few pages that have diverse external backlinks mostly maintained their positions. Pages with nothing other than internal backlinks dropped dramatically for their targeted keywords.

The site had Google Analytics and an approx 50% bounce rate, as it was heavily targeted to driving people off the page to Amazon.

Sites #2-5:
The sites used for my backlinking experiment all increased in value FOR THE MAIN PAGE that had 90% of the backlinking for the keyword that had been backlinked. All the other pages that relied on internal links and had no backlinks dropped dramatically. Almost all long tail keyword traffic due to on page factors died.

Sites #5-10:
Similar as the others, pages with external keyword focused backlinks regardless of the quality of the links (profile, blog comment, etc) stayed about the same, pages that had no external backlinks are no longer getting long tail keyword love.
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athenistic 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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- Charley Brown 12 years ago
  
  It should be interesting to see how this all plays out, but it looks like having quality articles on your site may be very important.
  
  Thanks
  
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outwest 12 years ago

The feedback I have read seems to say its more about high PR backlinks or having deep varied backlinks, and if you did not you got booted

then again some people insist thats the reason they got booted and google was targeting high PR backlink networks
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WealthyBlogger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ElectronPlumber

Let's use the tremendous wisdom and experience on this forum to figure out EXACTLY what Google changed in their algorithm in the Halloween Massacre SERP update. Admins, please don't lump this thread in with the "Anyone Noticed Changes In Google SERPS" discussion that is mostly just people complaining.

Hey! I was one who started one of those threads... and I wasn't complaining

I was wondering about an observation and wanted to know if anyone else was experiencing the same thing.

But... to carry on there...

We have two sites that are both very old... ten years old. Get good traffic, lots of backlinks from both relevant and non-relevant websites all over the internet.

Interestingly, site #1:

The other day, Google Webmaster Tools was reporting about 18,500 backlinks. Today, Webmaster Tools is reporting a drop of about 1,000 backlinks.

Ranked highly on Google.CA and on .COM (searches within Canada) for major search terms in the site's niche up until two days ago. Didn't check yesterday, but Analytics shows a drop of 50% traffic from what is normal, yesterday.

Today, those same searches show site #1 on page two for those search terms, however some locations such as Vancouver BC, some search terms are still showing on page 1, but further down.

Some of the new sites on Page 1 of google are a bit odd to me. An online store for one, that has little content. As well, some brands in the niche that have always been on page 2 or 3 for this search term now occupy spots on page 1.

My site has TONS of content that has been built up over ten years. It is quality content.

Originally, it was a "directory" and "content" site, but with more of a focus on content.

What I have recently done:

Removed many of the outgoing links to other sites (over time, many of them had become dead so two weeks ago, I did a major clean up of those).

Added a new business directory as a subsection of the site, which added about 10,000 pages to the website.

Done some heav(ier) backlinking in the past month.

Cleaned up some duplicate meta descriptions that I discovered.

Interestingly - as I began to do this work, my site increased it's rank on page 1 for the major search term. Appeared I was doing everything Google was wanting me to do.

This site does have a lot of Google Adsense on it - we've used the maximum number of adblocks per page. If I don't, I keep getting messages from Google that I am "missing out on opportunities" - but I'm thinking that this is why my site took a big drop.

But if that is the case, it's odd that one part of Google is encouraging me to use the maximum number of Adsense blocks, while the other part of Google is penalizing me for that.

At this point, I'm thinking I'm just going to wait a couple of days and see what happens - I've seen situations like this with other web properties I have where they take a sudden dip, and then come back even stronger in the SERP's than before.

Thanks

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amoeba 12 years ago

seems like google is really emphasizing on content quality over quantity. somewhere i read that Google is now giving less importance to bounce rate. but i have experienced exactly opposite of that.
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davidtong

12 years ago

@FBGuy: I'm no SEO expert, if you find something (like what the change was exactly), please do let us know. Much thanks.

*sigh* just when I started to figure out opt-in forms and consistent blog posting.

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coronaborcalis

12 years ago

Here is overview of my site that got hits and its written really well because I'm hiring professional writer to write content to make sure that visitor will gets what they are looking for and since lot of website reviewing my site organically so I don't make any backlink for the site and it was there on position one for year. But now drop like a stone

This one is really poor site that made for adsense and I only have couple article for this site and If I were visitor I will close the website in a second because its pointless site. For backlink I use spammy trick. but see the spike of the traffic.

So this statement is really true

When it has been stated publicly that the algorithm has elements built in to keep you guessing, then trying to look for answers like 1 + 1 =2 is pointless. For site A, 1 + 1=2 about 90% of the time but for site B 1 + 1=2, 20% of the time. Its no fun for us but its how these things work.

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Phil72

12 years ago

For no reason other than to join in on the global self commiseration... here is what happened to one of my sites I had been building up for nearly a year....

img822.imageshack.us/img822/1680/trafficdrop.jpg

300-400 per day down to 40-50 per day - with Adsense earnings following suit.

Thank you Google, though you simply run a search engine and we have no reason to expect free traffic from you, I still want to kick you in the nuts.

Commiserations all, I'm off to drink a lot of beer.

Thanks

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davidtong

12 years ago

I have a product review that has been ranking at #1 for a year at least, practically since the item came out... Lots of traffic to it etc...

Overnight, 2 Amazon listings + 2 lousy Youtube Videos outrank my long review.

I wonder if they're penalizing or 'disliking' pages with affiliate links.

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mekap04

12 years ago

Woah I thought my main site was just experiencing the Google dance but it may be something more. One of my sites also saw a drop in rankings and earnings as well -_-. Most keywords dropped 10 spots and a couple past 50+. This sucks cause I was experiencing my highest earning days this week. Hope it just temporary.

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TotalGaz

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

I have a UK domain name, and a UK focussed site and my site dropped in Google.co.uk. However, I've just noticed that at the same time it has leaped up to the very top of Google.com some of the same keywords! Previously, my site was nowhere to be seen on Google.com (quite rightly since it is targetted to the UK).

I've never seen a country specific non-US domain at the top of Google.com for anything, let alone a competitive keyword like this.

Same hing has happened to my UK domain. Was sitting nicely at #1 for google.co.uk dropped to 7 and jumped to #3 for google.com I picked it up with big drop in adsense earnings cos drop in placement. really hope it is temporary

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Zibblu

12 years ago

I've recently experienced the same thing ... I went from #8 to #175 for my main keyword on Google.com ... but on Google.ca I'm at #1! (which I think is actually an increase of a couple of spots, but I haven't been watching it closely as I only get a trickle from .ca vs. com)

Also my site is a .US so obviously it should be aimed at the .com/US market.. eh? (domain whois is in the US too...)

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wyuguy

12 years ago

I would like to know if the dropped domain is dead no chance to recovery ?
should we better start new domain from the very begining that make me crazy.

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uski

12 years ago

Calm down people. This is just a phase

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1 reply

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wolfmmiii 12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

Calm down people. This is just a phase

Easier said than done. There are some of us that are making $xxx to $xxxx per day. This means that every day that passes, we miss out on that income.

I, myself, am not panicking yet. I'm just going to sit tight for a few days and let things settle. Then, I'll plot a course of action.
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retsek

12 years ago

Well my 5 biggest sites got a left hook from Panda 2.5
First time I've noticed any Panda related effects since February.

These are all quality, authority sites. Tons of long, unique and well written content you can't find anywhere else.

The main keywords on each site haven't budged. These are all 100,000 to 250,000 Exact Match.

All of the thousands on long tail keywords i used to rank for are now gone. That's 60% of my traffic!

What the frack does Google want?

I have other thin affiliate sites that weren't affected. One good example, is a 5 page site, 200 words each -- Making $150 per day with adsense. What the ****?

Thanks
8 replies

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outwest 12 years ago

so google doesnt want us to rank for long tails now? unless we backlink the crap out of them? how to do that on so many longtails?
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- Tina Golden 12 years ago
  
  Give it 2-4 weeks to level out. There is always some shaking up immediately after an update but the cream rises back to the top.
  
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Greenfatman

12 years ago

Nothing is safe anymore on google...I think facebook is changing the google way to rank sites,facebook is getting more and more traffic and Google is trying to get this traffic back ranking different sites on the top, if not working in few weeks they change the first page again, maybe your site will be back if the one is on the top doesn't bring views and traffic and they're spinning like that all the time.
Does it matter if you have quality content?

Yes it does in fact they swap the first spot with another quality site, it can be just to test or permanently.

How you SEO the whole thing?

Thanks
1 reply

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JRCarson

12 years ago

Yeah, I think the big question is are you doing questionable back-linking methods?

Otherwise...

You'll be back up in the rankings. They might have tweaked the algorithm to a point where all those pages don't look as strong until re-proven over a certain amount of time/visitors.

I've heard a few stories of people with massive sites that have gotten hit in the past (Panda and before) that just kept on writing and they came back into the rankings even stronger.

Thanks
1 reply

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JRCarson

Yeah, I think the big question is are you doing questionable back-linking methods?

Otherwise...

You'll be back up in the rankings. They might have tweaked the algorithm to a point where all those pages don't look as strong until re-proven over a certain amount of time/visitors.

I've heard a few stories of people with massive sites that have gotten hit in the past (Panda and before) that just kept on writing and they came back into the rankings even stronger.

That's just the thing. On 3 of the sites, content has been written extensively on the topics. Any NEW posts will not add any significant value since everything is already been covered. This is why the sites were killing it in the long tail searches as well as the main keywords.

So is that what everyone else does? Say the same things over and over, just totally differently?

Also..

I've dealt with backlink penalties, reconsideration requests before since I have alot of sites. This isn't that. If it were a manual or automatic penalty the effects would have been seen on across all the keywords and not just the long tail ones.

I'm just going to wait it out for 2-4 weeks. If nothing improves, I'll start making onsite changes.

Thanks

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Greenfatman 12 years ago

All that makes me wonder:

Is worth make an authority sites nowdays????

Just imagine the money you will spend on articles,backlinks and time and Google slaps the whole thing out to nowhere.
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uski

12 years ago

I have a great answer. I pay my copywriter hundreds of dollars (she writes for huge magazines like Vogue and Elle.). You need QUALITY content. Nobody want's to read some stupid article that your cheap asian writers wrote in 5 minutes (no disrespect). I have seen HUGE increase in traffic the last 48H while everyone else has been dropped from the serps.. Dp you REALLY think it is strange that huge brands like Amazon are ranking higher than you?.. C'mon think... THINK.... I love it that google focuses more on large companys and great WRITERS. The days of "get rich quick" are over. You need to INVEST in your online business.
I love it.

Thanks
2 replies

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uski

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

yeah ok ....what makes you think I pay for cheap content?

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

Thanks
3 replies

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

The amount you pay doesn't really mean much. You could be paying $100 and still be getting back crap. Many times I just write myself. I also have a full time writer for 3 of these sites. He works and studied for the industry and is in it for the recognition more than anything else. He was hyped when google rolled out that the Author Profile thing in the SERPs.

For my other content needs, I typically pay between $15 to $30 per 500 words depending on the service I use, the topic, etc. For distribution, I pay as low as $2.

Thanks
1 reply

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uski

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

The amount you pay doesn't really mean much. You could be paying $100 and still be getting back crap. Many times I just write myself. I also have a full time writer for 3 of these sites. He works and studied for the industry and is in it for the recognition more than anything else. He was hyped when google rolled out that the Author Profile thing in the SERPs.

For my other content needs, I typically pay between $15 to $30 per 500 words depending on the service I use, the topic, etc. For distribution, I pay as low as $2.

You´re absolutely right.

You seem to have control of your situation. Good for you.

When I started in this IM business I read all these threads on forums online. I found that people payed people from asia to write their content for a low price.
That's nice and all but how do google feel about that?

So I contacted a writer in the REAL world and hired her. She wrote content and I put my Amazon affiliate links on the bottom of my site. Guess what.. I make thousands of dollars every day.. Is that strange? The answer is NO. "paper magazines" are DEAD. There are hundreds desperate PROFESSIONAL writers out there willing to write EXCELLENT content for you.

It takes money to make money.

Thanks

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

ya right for a 500 word article you pay 5000 dollars gimme a break thanks for my daily laugh

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uski 12 years ago

Originally Posted by outwest

ya right for a 500 word article you pay 5000 dollars gimme a break thanks for my daily laugh

What do you think my writer gets paid when writing for one of the most read magazines in the world? I don't care if this sounds like bragging.
It is a new day, that's all im saying..

(for the record she's getting thousands and thousands whenever she writes for these magazines.)

FYI i'm a multi-millionaire ... but then again... who cares what I write online? I am just trying to motivate you guys to make more money. Take notes.
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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I am going to sound like a douche no mather how I try to answer this...

Do you pay your writer(s) $10 or more per word for content?

I am sorry to break this to you but the days of B S content is over. Professionals are taking over... and I love it.

Flame on

$10/word MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Some of the highest paid FREELANCE writers only get UP TO about $1/word And that is on the extreme high end of the scale.

Then there are staff writers, and well, they get paid salary.

I am sorry, but you are highly diluted to think that some people get paid $10/word for web content.

-- Jeff

EDIT: BTW the norm for a lot of freelance work is about the 6 - 10cents / word. This is of course in the professional arena. Web content is usually around the 3 - 5cents / word.

-- Jeff

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remodeler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

I have a great answer. I pay my copywriter hundreds of dollars (she writes for huge magazines like Vogue and Elle.). You need QUALITY content. Nobody want's to read some stupid article that your cheap asian writers wrote in 5 minutes (no disrespect). I have seen HUGE increase in traffic the last 48H while everyone else has been dropped from the serps.. Dp you REALLY think it is strange that huge brands like Amazon are ranking higher than you?.. C'mon think... THINK.... I love it that google focuses more on large companys and great WRITERS. The days of "get rich quick" are over. You need to INVEST in your online business.
I love it.

I know you're only trying to help and I can appreciatie that, but if only it was that simple. (I'm totally with you on creating good content BTW) If you have read any of the threads on here, as well as other forums, you would know that it has made NO difference as far as quality content.

Sites with 200 words on the page are ranking at the top in one of my niches. The content is garbage and keyword spammed. Others have mentioned the same thing. Doorway pages with little content are getting ranked.

At the moment this entire update has been indiscriminate in the sites it has taken down. Older sites, huge sites, ecomm sites, affiliate sites, adsense sites, etc. It's like a tornado went through the SERPs and turned everything upside down. But every time this occurs, things eventually settle back down in a few weeks. In most all cases your rankings come back and many come back even stronger than before.

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

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retsek

12 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

That's a great point.

Since February, I was never affected by Panda and the subsequent updates until now. I also thought, as uski thinks now, that I won't be affected because I invested time and money in producing good quality content.

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remodeler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

That's a great point.

Since February, I was never affected by Panda and the subsequent updates until now. I also thought, as uski thinks now, that I won't be affected because I invested time and money in producing good quality content.

I think everyone thinks like that until the day it also hits their sites. Spending thousands of dollars on content is no guarantee either. Google could care less how much time and money we all invest into our sites.

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uski

12 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

I think everyone thinks like that until the day it also hits their sites. Spending thousands of dollars on content is no guarantee either. Google could care less how much time and money we all invest into our sites.

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

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remodeler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

I can say it because I've been through this many many times.

Am I mad because google dropped the rankings on one of my sites? Not really. I know they will come back. Now I'm not real thrilled with losing hundreds of dollars a day, but that is not the point.

If you think amazon content is high quality, then you might want to rethink your whole argument. Youtube? Come on.

I'm sorry, spending hundreds of dollars on a 500 word article is not going to guarantee your site will escape a google update in the future.

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TheFBGuy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

Hahaha... breath, lol, and exactly why should Google care? You honestly think Google cares about you or your unique content? Everyone is like little flies to them, Google could care less of anyone and anything other than themselves and their properties.

I too thought my sites were untouchable, lol.

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remodeler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Hahaha... breath, lol, and exactly why should Google care? You honestly think Google cares about you or your unique content? Everyone is like little flies to them, Google could care less of anyone and anything other than themselves and their properties.

Exactly. And the shareholders. Google could give a rats ass about our sites, regardless of what we want to try and think.

But let this guy believe he has it all figured out. The day will come when he finds out differently. And all of his $10 per WORD content will not save him.

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

How can you say this?!?! Who do you think google are working for ?!?! Are you mad because google dropped your site?
People need to wake up. Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"? Think about it for just 3 minutes.

ummm because Google owns youtube
same reason the paid ads sit above the number 1 positions

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FredJones

12 years ago

Because Google is playing it safe. Because, they have no idea, just like before, the difference between quality content and carp. Because, they still depend upon TF-IDF (at hop 0), LSI (at hop 1) and Latent Dirichlet term vector space mapping with cosine or L1 norm/L2 norm based content similarity (at hop 2) for SEO at on-page level and "non-manipulatable" attributes like "site authority" and "domain age" at on-site level, apart form the standard off-page backlinking stuff. They still don't understand Natural Language Processing (none else do, but lets not pretend that Google does).

So it is of no wonder that a ton of crap from Amazon etc (not Amazon's fault, they had not meant those pages to be content site anyway but Google thought that was content and deserve search rank

) has started beating some solid websites (and I'm not talking of mine) with this update.

Really, with all sympathy to google because writing such complex algorithms on such massive scale and all the API restrictions that Hadoop-like map-reduce platforms bring in is no joke, I must say that at times I get feelings that these are almost too serious pranks to be true showing up straight from the realms of real life.

Originally Posted by uski

Why do you think amazon and youtube are ranking higher than your "unique authority site"?

EDIT: Do you think Google can parse videos? I haven't tried it, but hhas someone tried of late to try and rank a video for the keyword black goriphus (or any such arbitrary imaginary keyword - replace your real keyword if you want to do it) with the content being of blue widgets (replace this by a random thing that is nowhere related to your keyword in any sense) but every tag and everything else talking about black goriphus (the original keyword)?

The moment you start ranking in spite of competition, you shall realize exactly how much of video Google can "understand" today. I doubt whether it understands any - I suspect (with no evidence whatsoever so I may be proven wrong) that it is zero.

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FredJones

12 years ago

Agree whole-heartedly. When I was a beginner, I literally had to scrape all over the world (no, not read up but look at tons of sites and analyze) to realize that fresh content's a myth. But what had made me think that fresh content helps? That was all the bogus material flying around claiming you need fresh content. Luckily, my common sense and computer science background immediately had raised question marks and I could convince myself to go against "the intelligence" and yet start ranking - all with static sites and not "fresh-content" sites.

Heck, I don't write a review on the same model of camera every day, and nor do others. So what would happen if fresh content was the main objective? Every day you search, you get a new set of search results because they were fresh? And authority content sites that would come up with the first set of reviews would be lost in the next few days as it was "not as fresh as the next bunch of sites"? In my case, I have never faced any problem to rank static content ever - static content ranks perfectly well.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I've never understood this belief that you constantly need to add new content to be liked by Google. For most business websites, that simply isn't practical, so it seems foolish that search engines would punish them for not updating their content every few days.

I do not know how this myth got started, but most of my sites and the sites of my clients never get updated. Maybe a couple times a year at the most. And even then, it is usually just changing some images around.

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uski

12 years ago

Originally Posted by remodeler

I know you're only trying to help and I can appreciatie that, but if only it was that simple. (I'm totally with you on creating good content BTW) If you have read any of the threads on here, as well as other forums, you would know that it has made NO difference as far as quality content.

Sites with 200 words on the page are ranking at the top in one of my niches. The content is garbage and keyword spammed. Others have mentioned the same thing. Doorway pages with little content are getting ranked.

At the moment this entire update has been indiscriminate in the sites it has taken down. Older sites, huge sites, ecomm sites, affiliate sites, adsense sites, etc. It's like a tornado went through the SERPs and turned everything upside down. But every time this occurs, things eventually settle back down in a few weeks. In most all cases your rankings come back and many come back even stronger than before.

You mention seeing huge traffic increases. Congratulations, you've escaped...temporarily.
Don't be surprised when another update occurs and you don't escape that one. It is simply a way of life when you live on SEO.

Thanks for this great comment! I totally see what you are saying and i agree. But I have 3 year old sites all of a sudden ranking really high (because of this update) and I see it as google comparing thin sites to "authority" sites. I have a site with NO TEXT at all, ONLY amazon widgets. It suddenly ranks #2 for a medium comp kw. This is just temporary. It is so transparent. Am I the only one who see´s this?

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remodeler 12 years ago

Originally Posted by uski

Am I the only one who see´s this?

I think what you're missing is that you escaped this time. But sooner or later you will wake up to find a new update that hits your high quality sites as well. It's part of this SEO game. I once thought just like you.

I had a site a few years back that was quality built (which is a subjective term at best) and had escaped the infamous Florida update and a few others after that. Then a couple of years ago it got hit in a minor update. It happens. Just read the various forums and you can get a good idea of what I'm saying.
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retsek

12 years ago

Well that's great for her.

The point is here, I'm competing with the likes of eHow, some random Wikipedia writer, Amazon product pages, outdated pages from the 90s and early 00s, and thin MFA sites with 500 words or less of content.

My content is better and more helpful to the reader by a good mile. Why is google giving it to these big brands and thin sites ? The fact that the thin MFA sites are ranking throws a wrench in your whole thing about google favoring big brands with "professional writers".

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uski

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsek

Well that's great for her.

The point is here, I'm competing with the likes of eHow, some random Wikipedia writer, Amazon product pages, outdated pages from the 90s and early 00s, and thin MFA sites with 500 words or less of content.

My content is better and more helpful to the reader by a good mile. Why is google giving it to these big brands and thin sites ? The fact that the thin MFA sites are ranking throws a wrench in your whole thing about google favoring big brands with "professional writers".

Ok I see what you are saying... I checked my sites... All of them are now ranking below Amazon and random youtube videos.. But guess what, this happens almost 3-4 times a year. It is just google comparing "thin" sites to "thick" sites.

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boxoun 12 years ago

Btw Google doesn't rank YouTube over you. Google ranks YouTube videos related to search query. If you search for how to do something than Google will consider if video should be an option. So that means you should make a YouTube video or any video. Google doesn't rank YouTube they rank content from Y youTube. YouTube is user created content so they are still ranking your content not YouTube persay. Your argument that Google will rank YouTube over "your" content doesn't make sense. YouTube is "our" content.
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rekerlolz

12 years ago

I figure, the best way to beat out the updates or whatever people think is going on with they're website is to keep building high quality backlinks and keep adding some new content to your websites each week.

Getting ranked highly in Google is kind of like a battle, you gotta keep fighting if you want to win.

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TheFBGuy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by rekerlolz

I figure, the best way to beat out the updates or whatever people think is going on with they're website is to keep building high quality backlinks and keep adding some new content to your websites each week.

Getting ranked highly in Google is kind of like a battle, you gotta keep fighting if you want to win.

Lol, you guys keep wasting time. Instead of wasting time beating these stupid "algo updates", I encourage everyone to start looking for new ways and strategies that will work regardless of what Google does. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

Edit: Like Albert Einstein said: "The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing while expecting different results."

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Loloy Diango

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

Lol, you guys keep wasting time. Instead of wasting time beating these stupid "algo updates", I encourage everyone to start looking for new ways and strategies that will work regardless of what Google does. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

Could you please enlighten us a bit about what would those new ways and strategies be that will work regardless of what Google does?

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TheFBGuy

. Things such as "adding new content" and building "new high quality links" to please Google are simply not a wise thing to do anymore or how to build a business on a solid foundation, you guys keep running in a loop if you want. Hehehehe..

You must be joking FB. My sites and my customers are rock solid and have not fallen anywhere based on high quality links. I've taken sites that were struggling to get to the top of Google and stuck high quality backlinks and they shot to number one and are sitting right there still. good content too.

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

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MikeFriedman

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

But I do agree with you on one thing. Not sure where people got this idea that they have to keep sticking more and more content every day on a site. Plenty of businesses have fairly static sites with maybe some news updates each week and they stay right there at the top. Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

I've never understood this belief that you constantly need to add new content to be liked by Google. For most business websites, that simply isn't practical, so it seems foolish that search engines would punish them for not updating their content every few days.

I do not know how this myth got started, but most of my sites and the sites of my clients never get updated. Maybe a couple times a year at the most. And even then, it is usually just changing some images around.

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Chiayee

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

My sites and my customers are rock solid and have not fallen anywhere based on high quality links. I've taken sites that were struggling to get to the top of Google and stuck high quality backlinks and they shot to number one and are sitting right there still. good content too.

Mike:

I have a site (with medium competition) with good content. It was in page 1 but struggling to get to the top.

About 1-2 weeks before Panda, I managed to secure high quality one way links (PR5, 6 and 8) to the site. I did not use any artificial or spammy linking method. The ranking didn't move, and when Panda2.5 come it got hit hard.

Competitors with so-so contents and used spammy link building tactics were ranked high. I've seen this happen in some other products keywords in the same niche as as well (though I am not targeting them).

It's all too early to why some got hit while others manage to get by.

CY

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Chiayee

...
About 1-2 weeks before Panda, I managed to secure high quality one way links (PR5, 6 and 8) to the site. I did not use any artificial or spammy linking method. The ranking didn't move, and when Panda2.5 come it got hit hard.

What kind of links were they chiayee? Unfortunately high quality means different things to different people. A lot of people think its just PR but theres also whether its in content ( Google calls editorial) and then there low OBL. I run my links lower than anyone I have seen. OBL is under ten on most sites and under 15 on ALL sites.

You are right that its too early to say which protects those sites but they have not moved. So its either the content or the links which is why I mentioned both. based on my experience its almost always an interplay between the two.

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Fraggler

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

A lot of people are making the connection between links and this update. Hard to tell really because a lot of MFA and affiliate product pages do in fact rely on weak link portfolios.

Yeah, there is a chance that some links have been adjusted. My sites have shifted so slightly, and I have heard others too have had small adjustments, so I thought any changes they made to counting something like article links would result in a much larger drop in rankings.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Worse because alot of Imers use blogs they have this strange idea that they have to keep adding posts rather than changing the post they have. I'm quite sure that many newbies end up losing rank because the content that was ranking them is rolling right off the page sometimes for inferior optimized content.

If you are running a blog (like myself) and not just an affiliate site then the fresh content is there for the readers' benefit, not for SEO. I think the message got lost with the perception that Google prefers up to date sites, pushing inactive sites out of their index. It is just typical rubbish taught by opportunistic marketers selling to an uneducated audience - through no fault of their own.

A problem is that many people try and rank the homepage of a blog when the focus should be placed on key articles: squeeze pages; articles that can go viral; articles about key phrases with a large amount of search traffic.

The homepage of a blog should be kept as a portal page to push readers looking for more info onto other articles. It shouldn't matter if posts roll off. The homepage will generally have the most internal links point to it so it has stacks of link juice. I like to get as many links as possible on the homepage so they all get a good initial push. I don't build many off-site links to my homepage at all and even with the constant changing front page content the homepage still ranks for my goal keyword.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

If you are running a blog (like myself) and not just an affiliate site then the fresh content is there for the readers' benefit, not for SEO. I think the message got lost with the perception that Google prefers up to date sites, pushing inactive sites out of their index. It is just typical rubbish taught by opportunistic marketers selling to an uneducated audience - through no fault of their own.

Very True troy. Sellers push backlinks and mass content but what I find over and over again is that some people who swear they now know SEO and drop all kinds of advice still don't know the basics. Take what you said about linking to articles. Many newbies are never taught to link to the permalinks of their articles. they simple post it on the home page and then link to the home page.

We'll see how things play out but I think Google may have got exactly what they wanted. Maybe a minor tweak but things just might stay this way - only they really know

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ephame 12 years ago

Interesting discussion, Panda affected some and some it didn't. That basically covers what i just read there.

And some random trolled some people for a while, then quit.

Me thinks Panda will affect some and miss some nearly every time it comes out because everyone is doing things differently with different sites so it should never affect everyone as a whole. Relax, be patient and work out how to get around it like everyone else will.

Until next Panda...
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ttkim

12 years ago

Why don't you make your whois private then?

I don't see this pattern with affiliate sites being hit. I wasn't hit, and my site is an Amazon affiliate site. My newest site went up from rank 35-40ish to 15 overnight. It's also gradually going up as we speak, but I also have a 2500 word review on it rather than the usual 500-word review.

A few of my competitors were hit, but most of them are still there.

Also, number of affiliate links shouldn't matter since I have 3 or 4 per review. If anything, it might be words per # of affiliate links though.

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outwest

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ttkim

Why don't you make your whois private then?

I don't see this pattern with affiliate sites being hit. I wasn't hit, and my site is an Amazon affiliate site. My newest site went up from rank 35-40ish to 15 overnight. It's also gradually going up as we speak, but I also have a 2500 word review on it rather than the usual 500-word review.

A few of my competitors were hit, but most of them are still there.

Also, number of affiliate links shouldn't matter since I have 3 or 4 per review. If anything, it might be words per # of affiliate links though.

That makes more sense
put 150 word review with 5 affiliate links ....ummmmmmm spammy

1000 word review with 1 or 2, that might fly under the radar

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ericnelsonator

Banned 12 years ago

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WealthyBlogger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ericnelsonator

Sites that are more than 5 years old have not been affected. Sites between the age of 1-4 years are the only ones seem to have lost rankings.

We have two sites over five years old (1 is 9 years, the other 10 years old) that have been both affected.

For relevant search terms on the 10 year old site, the top three on page 1 are still the same. The balance of the page 1 results are kind of twisted and bizarre. One of the beneficiaries is a small online shop with little content, and their product is actually a sub-niche of the niche.

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Steve Faber

12 years ago

Originally Posted by WealthyBlogger

We have two sites over five years old (1 is 9 years, the other 10 years old) that have been both affected.

For relevant search terms on the 10 year old site, the top three on page 1 are still the same. The balance of the page 1 results are kind of twisted and bizarre. One of the beneficiaries is a small online shop with little content, and their product is actually a sub-niche of the niche.

I have a 7 year old site, with 600 pages of high quality content and 11,000+ almost entirely natural backlinks, that got crushed. Too many others have experienced something similar with respect to age and quality content.

The owner of DaniWeb posted on here and his site took a huge hit as well. That site is old, gets tons of traffic (Alexa of <1,500), has a great following, and is definitely well respected in it's niche, yet still ,they took a whack.

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theebookcavern 12 years ago

My site got hit with this update too. I've been running my site for 4 years and this is the first time I've ever experienced anything like this. Looks like a 45% to 50% reduction in traffic.

1 strange thing I noticed is that my rankings on Google.co.uk have remained static and only my rankings on Google.com have fallen. Unfortunately, my traffic is down evenly across all countries which suggest Google.com has a much bigger influence on UK searches than Google.co.uk.

Does not really make sense to me logically as my information is not location specific. It's fitness advice so should be just as applicable whatever part of the world you read it in.

Hopefully, as quite a few people seem to be saying, Google will re-adjust the results over the next few days and the cream will rise to the top. I write all my own content, ensure that it is 100% unique, post regularly to my blog and submit a lot of fresh content to article directories. Looking at it objectively, if someone arrived at my site after searching for my main keywords they would land on a page with relevant content to answer their query.

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- sandra98 12 years ago
  
  I had a few sites affected by the Sept 28th update (termed Panda 2.5). With the Oct 14th update, I have more sites getting affected.
  
  There is little overlap between the sites that got affected in the Sept 28th update and the Oct 14th update. I don't see a lot of feedback from others that their same sites were affected in both updates as well.
  
  The sites affected now are between 5 months to 1.5 years old. Newer sites less than 5 months old took a hit on Sept 28th, and they have not recovered much.
  
  For EMDs, the main keyword rankings are affected just a little. The inner pages took more of a hit. From what I've read, seems like EMDs do get some type of boost, and is perhaps comparatively more important now if these update algos remain.
  
  I have one site with an EMD that got to #1 for the first time ever. Because the traffic potential is so low, I use it as test case and throw different sorts of backlinks at it, the last being a massive profile and social bookmark blast.
  
  It's tough to run a business that relies so much on Google algos.
  
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RedWaterDub

12 years ago

Since the recent update to PANDA, I and many others have seen lost rankings...I think we need to update our pages.

I would really like some opinions on the following observations and add some more that I have left out?

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

2/ Having one less than optimum page on your site will now hurt your whole site. ie: a post that is thin with quality or a page with an affiliate offer that is in your face without much useful information will hurt your whole site.

3/ Having outward links to spammy or bad neighborhood sites will harm your whole site. But having links (dofollow) to high quality authority sites is GOOD

4/ There has always been debates about duplicate content, but now there seems to be no doubt that it will harm your site. Scraped content, bad spinning etc..equals VERY BAD

5/ Speed of your site now counts for more..(having one slow page could harm your whole site)

6/ Certain niches are now being penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

7/ Single keyword targeted sites will also now be penalized..that means google sniper sites etc

8/ High bounce rate pages will also affect your rankings more than it used to.....

Is there anything I have left out? Do you agree or disagree with the above?

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MikeFriedman 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

6/ Certain niches are now definitely penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

That's silly. Maybe your sites in those niches got hammered, but Google is not going to penalize the entire niche. They have to show something for those searches.

So if someone searches for "**** berry", they are going to show results for what?
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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

Wrong, I'm ranking pages with less than 10 words on the page as plain text, been doing it for years.

2/ Having one less than optimum page on your site will now hurt your whole site. ie: a post that is thin with quality or a page with an affiliate offer that is in your face without much useful information will hurt your whole site.

Wrong, one crappy internal page on your site, has nothing to do with the rest of the sites pages & seo.

You rank pages in the SERPs, not sites.

3/ Having outward links to spammy or bad neighborhood sites will harm your whole site. But having links (dofollow) to high quality authority sites is GOOD

Why would you allow spam on your own sites/pages (doesn't make any sense)?

4/ There has always been debates about duplicate content, but now it DEFINITELY will harm your site. Scraped content, bad spinning etc..equals VERY BAD

Wrong, I've copied & pasted an entire public domain book on a site for testing, each page in the book is a page on my site (150+ pages).

I'm out ranking Google Books & everyone else for that specific book title. I copied the book from Google Books.

My entire test site (.info) is 100% duplicate content, & I'm still #1 in the SERPs. With a triple SERP listing to boot.

5/ Speed of your site now counts for more..(having one slow page could harm your whole site)

If your site is slow, it doesn't matter If your ranking #1 anyways. The traffic won't sit there all day waiting for a page to load, they will bail.

Webmaster 101...

6/ Certain niches are now definitely penalized..ie: **** Berry, male enhancement, get your ex back, and more...(over saturated niches)

I'm not in any of those niche, but I guarantee someone is ranking #1 for each of those keywords, so I have to call BS.

7/ Single keyword targeted sites will also now be penalized..that means google sniper sites etc

Every site has a root keyword (or should). All my sites have more than a hundred pages (more like thousand). I have no doubts anyone can rank a single root keyword with a small 10 page site. It happens everyday...

8/ High bounce rate pages will also affect your rankings more than it used to.....

Wrong, I've got Adsense pages with a nice CTR that still rank in Google SERPs.

.............

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yukon Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by high_plains_drifter

god im glad i wasnt the only one thinking 'wtf are you talking about' for most of those points

Lol,

I wasn't trying to be picky, I just didn't read anything I agree with.
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Becker13 Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

.............

Finally..lol

I am not sure where all this duplicate content and 1000 words nonsense came from. I have ranked empty sites with 3 pages in google.
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yukon Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by gtk29

I agree only on 1 point - duplicate copied content. Matt Cutts mentioned it himself in one of his videos.

I'm here to tell you I've tested 100% duplicate sites/content & still ranking #1.

Matt Cutts isn't looking out for you.

BTW, I'm not suggesting anyone copy a sites/content you don't have any rights to.

If it's public domain, you can copy it all day long, just do your own public domain research.
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RedWaterDub

12 years ago

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift ‘N Update 2011 – Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

The thing is your acting like a web page with very little text is a bad thing & will get you penalized by Google, which is just wrong.

I have sites that only purpose is to distribute zip files, thousands of pages across all sites. Think image gallery type sites (almost no text).

I provide very good quality content inside my zip files & have email list + thousands of forum comments (in my niche) to prove it. Just because I don't have 1,000 words of text on my page doesn't mean I don't deliver quality, because I do, in fact I make it a point to over deliver. My quality zip files keep my traffic coming back day after day, year after year.

Lots of quality content doesn't need massive on-page text:

Download pages (me)
Videos
Image Galleries
etc...

All those thousands of sites still rank keywords every single day, & always will, even with very little text.

That won't change...

Even If I ran only article sites, I would still rank pages just the same regardless of how much text is on the page. I'll be doing the same thing (ranking low text count pages) this time next year...

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift 'N Update 2011 - Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

The thing is your acting like a web page with very little text is a bad thing & will get you penalized by Google, which is just wrong.

I have sites that only purpose is to distribute zip files, thousands of pages across all sites. Think image gallery type sites (almost no text).

You point here is not only wrong - Its just TOTAL GARBAGE for most sites. So what if you distribute zip files etc. Thats a niche that doesn't require any content. We don't even know if its cracked or Warez stuff. Does that mean that most pages on Google are going to get anywhere with ten word pages?

Seriously stop junking up the forum with nonsense. We are most definitely in the time when good content (that Google can read) matters and ten word pages will not get you anywhere in 99% of the serps.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You point here is not only wrong - Its just TOTAL GARBAGE for most sites. So what if you distribute zip files etc. Thats a niche that doesn't require any content. We don't even know if its cracked or Warez stuff. Does that mean that most pages on Google are going to get anywhere with ten word pages?

Seriously stop junking up the forum with nonsense. We are most definitely in the time when good content (that Google can read) matters and ten word pages will not get you anywhere in 99% of the serps.

Trust me I create 100% of my content myself, none of your crazy cracked ideas.

This is your problem & why I'll make money for years to come from content in my zip files, that I made years ago.

Your blind...

You can't see outside of the simple thinking, "Remove Your Blinders"! :rolleyes:

If you can't rank a web page with very little text, you need to hire someone to show you how. Let them know ahead of time that your only focused on what you do now.

I guarantee that I have more repeat traffic than you have, with your backlinking schemes. That's not even counting new traffic.

Don't hate something just because you can't comprehend it.

I have proof for what I say, all you have is a theory based on someone else wearing blinders.

Good luck with that.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

focused on what you do now.

I guarantee that I have more repeat traffic than you have, with your backlinking schemes. That's not even counting new traffic.

Don't hate something just because you can't comprehend it.

I have proof for what I say,

Where?

P R E S E N T
IT

You go nothing but your claims of faking to be an editor on Wiki and pulling links there. Telling people at this stage in a thread like this that they are fine with 10 word pages is just downright harmful and totally irresponsible.

Every time you are asked to show some proof you run away claiming that you would never show your niche and keywords. You don't ever have to. Just show us in ANY even barely competitive serp where a site with what you claim ranks.

and nice try about me not knowing SEO. Who was it again that PMed ME and I had to explain to him how to do a whois lookup because he was claiming a three year old site was a new site ranking?

When people are losing ranking and real money its time to stop with the kid pretend to be an SEO stuff. No sensible person in this thread believes that answer to their problems is using ten word pages and duplicate content to rank. Add something constructive not just muddy up the waters.

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theverysmartguy

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

I did not just make those point up you know....

I have gathered those points from several articles written by very experienced internet marketers....and they have come up with these theories through testing...

Just because a site using scraped duplicate content, thin pages with few words, a high bounce rate and loads slow is still ranking well...doesn't mean the points I raised are not valid..... just means the better quality sites haven't filtered thru yet I reckon.

Have a read of these articles where I got most of these points from....(the potpiegirl one is all about those saturated niches).

100k Blueprint Blog: How to Beat Googles "Farmer" Update
Warrior Forum post: http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...er-update.html
Nichebot post (Jim Morris): Google Algorithm Change Shift 'N Update 2011 - Were you hit by the Farmer? | The Keyword Ninja | Stealth Training Grounds | SEO Keyword Research
PotPieGirl post (Jennifer Ledbetter): Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

Bottom line: Google is constantly changing its algo so that the searches result in better quality, more relevant pages are being found...so sites and pages that are still ranking well that lack that quality will eventually filter down the serps allowing room for the better quality sites to come thru...and all those points I made above amount to better quality so makes sense to me...

To rtailor...no your site will not be penalized for someone stealing your content as long as that original content was indexed on your page first.

All of those people are all well and good, but in the end they are only SPECULATING.

The new update that JUST happened a day or 2 ago can't be properly tested for what is going to penalize people.

I am just going to keep doing what I have been doing all a long. I didn't get penalized for my sites. Some of them actually did go up in rankings. The only thing that bugs me is that my EPC has gone down on a few of my sites.

I am not worried, this has happened before, and it will go back up. Some of my niches have their up times and down times; this is most likely one of their down times according to past earnings.

Its not like the sky is falling or anything...

-- Jeff

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RedWaterDub

12 years ago

Yes..okay..I agree with you that quality information is not just words...but from what I have read, it seems to be the general consensus that since the recent panda update late last month...the quantity of information plays a bigger part to its overall quality...so that if you had a page that only had one article (say 500 words) and one picture and that's it..and it was ranking well...but then it fell in the serps..then a good idea might be to make that article longer (say 1000 words) and even (like you say) add some other stuff like a video and another picture or a graph...and it might pop up again.

So what i was really trying to say..is that if your site IS about text...then more of that text is better...

As for other pages affecting your whole site..well I find that hard to believe too but that's what they're saying....

But the whole reason I put this up is too see what everyone thinks because I don't know..I am only going off what I have read ...I need to do something to the pages that I lost serps in and if everyone agrees with those points then I would apply them..if not..well..what was it then?

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

Yes..okay..I agree with you that quality information is not just words...but from what I have read, it seems to be the general consensus that since the recent panda update late last month...the quantity of information plays a bigger part to its overall quality..?

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Nice, shows what were dealing with here, lol.

People like you are the very reason I would never show my sites. They can't think for themselves & feed off others ideas that make money online.

I don't understand that type of thinking so I won't act like I do.

My niche is the hobby niche, which is a billion dollar a year industry, that's all you need to know about my niche.

It's to bad your struggling with the concept of ranking low text pages & making money, plus retaining traffic (key).

Wish my competition was on this forum, to share the laugh.

BTW, you should know by now that I would never fall for your silly proof comments that you always add to every single thread you post in.

I think I've suggested this before, stop looking for others to prove things for you & do your own testing with your own sites. We have enough theories on this forum. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Nice, shows what were dealing with here, lol.

People like you are the very reason I would never show my sites. They can't think for themselves & feed off others ideas that make money online.

ROFL. Whatever. Again who PMed ME and had to have explained to him how to do a whois check properly ? Yet is now claiming that I am the one that can't think for himself? :rolleyes:. I have no problem making money. I rank real sites for real businesses not push around zip files and fake being a wiki editor to try and place links. I know how to both rank and make money without all that garbage. Its people that don't know how to build a real business that have to resort to all that.

So thanks for your concern but I am doing fine. Not a single one of mine or my customers sites dropped. I'm merely in this thread to combat foolishness at a time when it would hurt people to follow it.

Look I only spoke up to make newbies know that your advice of ten word pages and Wholesale copying of public domain content in order to rank was total and utter crapola. IF they want to follow your whole I rule the internet with crappy, public domain copied or nonexistent content techniques and think it will work for them then they can have fun with it.

Frankly though - I think its more likely you just finally exposed conclusively to anyone with an ounce of 2011 SEO knowledge that you don't have a clue about SEO in the real world though of course we will probably hear again from you otherwise - but of course with the same amount of proof.

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Talen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Redwater Just disregard that total nonsense about copying public domain content and putting it on your site verbatim. Same goes for that garbage about ten word pages doing just fine in google. Anyone answering your points with that does not have one single clue about SEO in the real world 2011.

You would have to be in some scuzzy, crappy 1979 Chevy Impala broken down, I have fallen and can't get up, anemic, My momma washes behind my ears, baby, I forgot to take me Iron, lay down to the count of ten weak Serps to utilize ten word pages as a good strategy to regularly rank pages in Google.

People hide behind the fact that no one wants to share their niche but the flip side of that is that it makes people spin total garbage without having to show any proof.

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags. It's highly relevant and what people want and it has done well through all the google changes.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags.

Alt tags IS CONTENT :rolleyes:. The whole point of adding them is to alert Google to the content within them. Sheesh guys learn some SEO. Could you put pictures up and not use them? Yes but it would be poor SEO not to use content within the ALT tags. Having a Gallery with less than ten words of alt tags? Crappy SEO no matter who begs for it to be otherwise.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Garbage squared. Like I said for 99% of the sites people deal with here it is not speculation to say that having ten words of content is a downside to their SEO Ditto for your implication that duplicate content in public domain might be a good SEO factor. Requires no speculation just a rudimentary amount of SEO knowledge. If you don't have it then you can go and get it not object to the bare faced obvious.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

Along with SEO you should get some English reading lessons. I made none, ZERO claims that you needed a one thousand word article. I objected to the ten or less, nothing else and my proof is easy. Ton loads of sites that rank number one in competitive serpsthat have more than ten words and almost none that have less than ten. Now your up. or let me guess - You will come up with some dodge like comrade Yuke. And if you do try and take a stab at it don't try pointing to something with uber links (like Google.com) that no Imer here can get. (Even so Google has more than ten words on its .com site)

and you have to be seriously SEO deficient not to know that Duplicate content has been targeted this year. Every site tanked with it? Of course not. No factor at all? In you ever loving pipe dreams.

There is only one reason why someone should push or believe as you do that ten words should be used to rank a site.

BONE LAZINESS

Either that or extreme arthritis - nah scratch that you can get voice recognition - so its back to just bone laziness. Frankly this bone laziness is directly related to this thread because there are some of you that have always gravitated to the laziness do nothing way of making money that is SPECIFICALLY what Google is targeting.

A lot of people in this thread are probably feeling the effects of Google going after the lazy people who only want to throw up a site and the least content possible in adsense and affiliate sites. They did put some value in their sites but Google going after the bone lazies ends up getting them in the cross hairs. Speculation? Nah. Google made it very clear they want more relevant sites and for the average site you can beg all you want ......

Ten words on a page does not cut it.

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Talen

12 years ago

[quote=Mike Anthony;4879719]Alt tags IS CONTENT :rolleyes:. The whole point of adding them is to alert Google to the content within them. Sheesh guys learn some SEO. Could you put pictures up and not use them? Yes but it would be poor SEO not to use content within the ALT tags. Having a Gallery with less than ten words of alt tags? Crappy SEO no matter who begs for it to be otherwise.
[/content]

It is not 500-650 word articles it's a few words at most per page which is exactly what Yukon was talking about and you disagreed with...sheesh, make up your mind already. And for crappy seo it sure draws in the traffic and puts money in my pocket.

Garbage squared. Like I said for 99% of the sites people deal with here it is not speculation to say that having ten words of content is a downside to their SEO Ditto for your implication that duplicate content in public domain might be a good SEO factor. Requires no speculation just a rudimentary amount of SEO knowledge. If you don't have it then you can go and get it not object to the bare faced obvious.

Again mere speculation on your part from beginning to end. I have 1 site that is complete duplicate content and google loves it to death because it gathers massive information people are looking for into one specific place in an easy to search format related to education.

Along with SEO you should get some English reading lessons. I made none, ZERO claims that you needed a one thousand word article. I objected to the ten or less, nothing else and my proof is easy. Ton loads of sites that rank number one in competitive serpsthat have more than ten words and almost none that have less than ten. Now your up. or let me guess - You will come up with some dodge like comrade Yuke. And if you do try and take a stab at it don't try pointing to something with uber links (like Google.com) that no Imer here can get. (Even so Google has more than ten words on its .com site)

Perhaps reading comprehension is needed by you. I said that everyday someone like you touts what they believe google is looking for and what google does not like without any real proof at all....seems you forgot the backlink thread already.

Furthermore I don't need to prove it because it's a fact and it exists...

and you have to be seriously SEO deficient not to know that Duplicate content has been targeted this year. Every site tanked with it? Of course not. No factor at all? In you ever loving pipe dreams.

Really? As stated before my education site which is comprised of only duplicate content has received a page rank of 5 and tons of traffic from google this year and continues to do so. Did I say duplicate content is no factor at all? No, I did not. But duplicate content used in the correct manner works quite well.

There is only one reason why someone should push or believe as you do that ten words should be used to rank a site.

Again you are making things up. I never suggested that ten words should be used to rank any site...I am saying you can ( and I have ) ranked sites very well going against the bull**** theory that content needs to be a minimum of 300 words.

BONE LAZINESS

Pull your head out of the sand and look around for once

Either that or extreme arthritis - nah scratch that you can get voice recognition - so its back to just bone laziness. Frankly this bone laziness is directly related to this thread because there are some of you that have always gravitated to the laziness do nothing way of making money that is SPECIFICALLY what Google is targeting.

Yes, we all can't be SEO guru's like you...

A lot of people in this thread are probably feeling the effects of Google going after the lazy people who only want to throw up a site and the least content possible in adsense and affiliate sites. They did put some value in their sites but Google going after the bone lazies ends up getting them in the cross hairs. Speculation? Nah. Google made it very clear they want more relevant sites and for the average site you can beg all you want ......

a no value site will always do poorly I agree but not all sites are made the same.

Ten words on a page does not cut it.

It sure does...is it the norm , no, but just because you don't agree doesn't make you right nor do you know anymore about what google really wants than anyone else here.

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Lares 12 years ago

Lost about 50% of traffic.

I really doubt this will be permanent since most sites on 1st page are duplicate content, some not even 100 words long. I also noticed 2 spun articles i post to ALN are now outranking my money site on 1st page for that specific keyword.
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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

It is not 500-650 word articles it's a few words at most per page which is exactly what Yukon was talking about and you disagreed with...sheesh, make up your mind already. And for crappy seo it sure draws in the traffic and puts money in my pocket.

Talon rest of your post isn't worth responding to so I'll respond to this and move on. I made very clear that what Yukon proposed in regard to light content of ten words or less does not apply to 99% of websites . When you learn some maths then you will realize that leaves 1%.

It total garbage and will forever be to tell people in this thread based on a VERY few exceptions that they are going to rank with ten words or less of content. That I even have to repeat this again is an indication of how awful this forum has become because of garbage posters. Bring back the spmmers at least they don't spew nonsense.

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Talen

Hmm, funny ...my 5 year old photo gallery about a specific destination ranks #2 on google for it's keywords and yet it has no words at all except for alt tags. It's highly relevant and what people want and it has done well through all the google changes.

You are speculating along with all the other "the sky is falling " people about what you think google wants...you have absolutely no clue because google has not shown it's hand in this at all.

Everyday someone starts a new thread saying things like..."gogle only wants 1000 word articles now" " google doesn't want duplicate , scraped or syndicated content" and yet people continue to rank this content non the less.

So where is your proof?

Finally, someone that knows seo is more than silly 1,000 word articles that people don't read.

If you can get them to understand articles mean nothing when ranking a web page, your a better man than I!

It's the backlink schemers that keep the nonsense bouncing around this forum.

They want everyone to believe their way (this weeks backlinks scheme) is the only way to rank a web page. They only do this because they see dollar signs, instead of providing quality content (not only articles) to their traffic.

It's obvious the differance between guys on this forum that own websites & the schemers that don't know how to do their own testing.

Oh well, that just makes yours & mine own sites that much easier to rank in the SERPs, with these jokers spreading false info.

************************************************** *****

Anyone new to this forum, don't fall for the weekly backlink schemes in folks forum sigs.

Do your own testing, you'll save money by not having to fix the weekly schemes/problems.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Finally, someone that knows seo is more than silly 1,000 word articles that people don't read.

Strawman to save yourself from embarrassment. NO one insisted anywhere that articles HAD to be 1,000 words. They just didn't buy your utter foolishness that they should bother with trying to rank 10 word pages. Thank God there are people here who know how to do more than pimp zip files and fake being Wiki editors while having to be schooled in multiple Pms how to do something as easy as determining the age of a domain.

Fact is that 95% plus of the people in this thread have written content websites and telling them that they can rank with ten words or less and duplicating verbatim public domain content given that fact is rank foolishness that no amount of spinning can get you out of.

The people who junk up this forum are always those trying to tell people how to do the least to rank rather than what will work for most people.

This aint the WSO section. Take the

"how to rank in 3 minutes"
"BE number one on Google with two minutes work"
and
"How to rank with ten words or less and duplicate content"

over there with the rest of the junk.

Thanks
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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Strawman to save yourself from embarrassment. NO one insisted anywhere that articles HAD to be 1,000 words. They just didn't buy your utter foolishness that they should bother with trying to rank 10 word pages. Thank God there are people here who know how to do more than pimp zip files and fake being Wiki editors while having to be schooled in multiple Pms how to do something as easy as determining the age of a domain.

Fact is that 95% plus of the people in this thread have written content websites and telling them that they can rank with ten words or less and duplicating verbatim public domain content given that fact is rank foolishness that no amount of spinning can get you out of.

The people who junk up this forum are always those trying to tell people how to do the least to rank rather than what will work for most people.

This aint the WSO section. Take the

"how to rank in 3 minutes"
"BE number one on Google with two minutes work"
and
"How to rank with ten words or less and duplicate content"

over there with the rest of the junk.

Closed to prepare for even better things (LOL)

Enough said...

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Mike Anthony 12 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Closed to prepare for even better things (LOL)

ah....... school let out early today (secret safe with me man)
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- Michael McCloud Banned 12 years ago
  
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  Mike Anthony 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael McCloud
  
  - at any rate, I liked your comment about not needing to update a site so often. In fact, I liked that one a lot! That was you, no?
  
  Yep. I don't know many real business sites that have ranked for years that change their content five times per day. I have sites that stayed rock solid over this update at number one no major content change in last week. But to be accurate I said a few times a week. I can reel them off to you if you need the education. Just a few examples -
  
  Software sites rarely post five posts a day, not even three. Some of you go to them several times a week and the sales page they rank with is almost always the same with a few changes here and there.
  
  Local businesses don't have the time to change their pages every day and some not even every week but there they are ranking for their local area and keywords. Go figure.
  
  Several online stores change their home pages very little except to add sales information.
  
  In fact I can't thing of any big, medium, or even small offline business ranking in Google at the top that posts several articles a day. Of course they don't use spammy backlinks like some Imers do.......
  
  So yeah I see sites DAILY that rank with the same page day in and day out without always updating . You just have to put on the glasses and look in serps sometimes.
  
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- Mike Anthony 12 years ago
  
  Looking over things Its becoming clear there is far more chatter about this update among Imers. This looks aimed at the heart of many of the things that internet marketers have been doing online. I haven't seen many real business sites being hit but lots of people running review sites, selling info products around a niche with opt ins, MFAs etc.
  
  As usual some good sites might be caught in the cross hairs but looking like Google is cleaning house for the christmas season.
  
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boxoun 12 years ago

Analysis of first page on average, has over 1000-1200 words of content. Not an opinion but results of large sample size meta analysis conducted by respected researchers. How you use that information is on you.
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JSProjects

12 years ago

I disagree with a number of different points. Though, #6 definitely stands out. Google is definitely not going to penalize an entire niche. it makes zero sense at all.

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RedWaterDub

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JSProjects

I disagree with a number of different points. Though, #6 definitely stands out. Google is definitely not going to penalize an entire niche. it makes zero sense at all.

Perhaps I wrote that point wrong, there seems to be a common trend between those over-saturated niches and article directory sites that have many articles in those niches losing big time. see...Google Panda Update - My Theory On What's Happening | PotPieGirl.com

And If you notice sites like hubpages have banned those niches all together.

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Greenfatman 12 years ago

I'm just in a thread someone posted he have content of 500 words which word cost $10 dollars... 500 word = $5000 per article he found this lady making content for big magazines and hired her for all this crazy money and he said he just put amazon link after the content and he makes thousands of dollars per day.

Please don't follow yukon strategy 10 words content, that makes me laugh he probably is a great IM with a lot experience on find easy keywords to rank.
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tomaz 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RedWaterDub

S

1/ Now need more words for an article..I think 650-1000 words is now optimum. And of course it still needs to be relevant and high quality.

I'am not shure!
Website CoolNailsArt - Nail Art - Nail Art Pictures - Nail Art Gallery - Cool Nail Designs and Nail Art have 5# position with keyword nail designs (about 80.000 searches per month). Website haven't any good content.
I have website with good content (500 word articles) which was on top 5 position, but now is droped on 20 to 25 positions.
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mentormatt8

12 years ago

This is all sand in your eyes folks, from Google.

The real deal is what happened to Amazon.com the last week of September, and first two weeks of October.

They got an early Christmas!!!

Check this out: Amazon.com Site Info

Compare the "Reach" and the "Search %" tabs... Search went down, total traffic way up, almost like last year's Xmas season...

I predict many of our sites will get back to "quasi normal", but Amazon will have an awesome Xmas season... starting right now.

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ruff

12 years ago

I don't believe it is because of Adsense and other ads.
I don't even have Adsense on my site!
About 2 to 3 links only to an Amazon affiliate offer throughout the whole site - that's it.
But all pages are nowhere to be seen on serps... but still indexed, that's for sure.
I hope this helps the experts crack this down.

From what I read, I can only conclude to myself that this is Google's way to test me and my website. I guess I just injected some positivity on that statement but I sincerely hope all of those affected in here can recover back soon.

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jbgal

12 years ago

I just found this thread today and I'm thinking "Whew! At least it's not just me..."
3 days ago I just had my all-time highest daily income and 2 days later my earnings drops by 90%! !@#$%^& GOOGLE, MY FAMILY'S GOTTA EAT!!! (Sorry, I just had to shout that out somewhere and where better than here LOL) I wonder why IMers go crazy over SEO. It's all so volatile and others are right when they say we are completely at Google's mercy. But I'm a firm believer that what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. So I'm doing to continue what I've always been doing with seo BUT I've also learned my lesson and will start on other projects that don't involve G^^*&%$#$#!!!

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Becker13

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by trustumar

Today i have noticed changes in google. It seems google is rewarding aged authority sites. Is there anybody else who observed this change?

same it is happening everywhere, even if the authority site is not really even targeting the search. I personally like it alot as a authority site owner

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jbgal 12 years ago

Becker,

I've been following your blog and you and/or Alex are using BB, right? Have your BB sites been affected at all by this most recent update? Because I've been using BMR and all my top authority sites have dropped huhuhu

JB

Originally Posted by Becker13

same it is happening everywhere, even if the authority site is not really even targeting the search. I personally like it alot as a authority site owner
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jbgal

12 years ago

And while we're on the subject of SEO, can you guys help me out with this thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-software.html

It's been nagging me for weeks now, I'll even paypal anybody $5 who can give me the right answer LOL

Thanks

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kindsvater

12 years ago

I am looking at a Google search for a toy with 2 Adwords ads at the top of the page: Amazon and eBay,

that page ALSO includes Amazon and eBay Adwords ads along the right-side of the page

(yes, they are allowed to double-their ads)

and of course Amazon and eBay are doing quite well in the SERPS.

That is 6 top listings for Amazon / eBay. Actually 8, as eBay has 3 SERP listings on the first page.

Takeaways:

Buy stock in Amazon and eBay.

Your affiliate business is being destroyed.

But you may want to sell on Amazon and eBay.

If you can no longer compete in SEO against Amazon / eBay by having better content, or more specific page backlinks, or longtail keywords, then it is close to checkmate for a massive chunk of traffic.

How are you going to get a higher search ranking?

Get your own trusted PR9 site with tens of millions of pages and backlinks? That sells products and is not an affiliate site? Good luck.

.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

If you can no longer compete in SEO against Amazon / eBay by having better content, or more specific page backlinks, or longtail keywords, then it is close to checkmate for a massive chunk of traffic.

How are you going to get a higher search ranking?

I'm seeing some evidence of what you are talking about but it is not across the board. Some non AMazon, Ebay and other commerce powerhouse are in fact outranking the biggers sites. However not so much affiliate pages or MFAs (Where I am looking anyway).

Still too early to say but it does appear like this either indirectly or directly targets those kinds of sites. The problem is if that holds up Google won;t be adjusting it too soon because a lot of the times the searcher actually does want to get straight to where they can buy especially if you take into account we are in the Christmas retail season.

IF (big if) things hold out that way then might have to reevaluate how keyword research is done and not target the long tail product niches as much.

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WealthWithin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Still too early to say but it does appear like this either indirectly or directly targets those kinds of sites. The problem is if that holds up Google won;t be adjusting it too soon because a lot of the times the searcher actually does want to get straight to where they can buy especially if you take into account we are in the Christmas retail season.

IF (big if) things hold out that way then might have to reevaluate how keyword research is done and not target the long tail product niches as much.

This is what I've noticed too. Focusing on product related keywords with text content could become harder.

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Mike Anthony

12 years ago

Originally Posted by peterjamesmorris

To be fair, I think you're right - it might be nice for people who type in those product keywords to see a review and rating before they buy, but I think they've already made the decision to buy (which is why we target those keywords in the first place). However, I guess from Google's point of view, someone would type "product name review" if they wanted more information about the product.

Yeah if those results hold then don't expect Google to look back and do a correction like they did before. They will be quite happy to get rid of product affiliates and MFA sites.

Originally Posted by Fraggler

This is the first blog I made to make money so the linking profile is as rough as guts. Most of the original links have disappeared but it still has a fair chunk of crappy blog comments and profile links. These have been replaced by article directories, syndication, forum discussion, BMR, high pr rentals, and finally natural blog and facebook links.

I'll post an update in a couple of days just to see how much of this actually sticks.

A lot of people are making the connection between links and this update. Hard to tell really because a lot of MFA and affiliate product pages do in fact rely on weak link portfolios. Panda has always been mostly about content but there is good evidence that they have also been going after link schemes as they have both slapped sites and sent notices to those who were slapped. Thing is google will never really come out and say that their algo has been changed in regard to links - defeats the purpose. They are more likely to talk about content because it encourages people to add better content but telling people about links just tips off the link spammers.

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hobokook

12 years ago

Hi,

I'm literally losing sleep over this issue.

I run a fitness blog over at fitmole.com and my goal on that site is to provide nothing but high quality 100% original content. There is ZERO duplicate content on that site and there is no adsense. Everything is written by me and is 100% original. There are a few affiliate links, but that is for only products I truly believe in.

My site is about 4 months old and for the past 2 months I was ranking high on page 1 for terms like "Ryan gosling workout" , "Jason statham workout", and "beyonce workout".

But as of the past 3 weeks, they simply dropped off page 1 and I couldn't even find them in the first 30 pages of Google.

Does anyone have any idea as to why my rankings would just drop off like that. It's killing my traffic levels.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Thanks
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Nick Walker 12 years ago

There was a change to Google's algorithms very recently.
To get back to page 1, you either need lots of quality backlinks from edu / gov or other contextual backlinks.
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stelweb

12 years ago

Originally Posted by hobokook

Hi,

I'm literally losing sleep over this issue.

I run a fitness blog over at fitmole.com and my goal on that site is to provide nothing but high quality 100% original content. There is ZERO duplicate content on that site and there is no adsense. Everything is written by me and is 100% original. There are a few affiliate links, but that is for only products I truly believe in.

My site is about 4 months old and for the past 2 months I was ranking high on page 1 for terms like "Ryan gosling workout" , "Jason statham workout", and "beyonce workout".

But as of the past 3 weeks, they simply dropped off page 1 and I couldn't even find them in the first 30 pages of Google.

Does anyone have any idea as to why my rankings would just drop off like that. It's killing my traffic levels.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Affiliate sites have gotten hit in the past few weeks. The only way to bring back the rankings i suppose is to remove those affiliate links. I know that is just unacceptable. But i see no other way. Here is one suggestion for you. Concentrate more on getting the readers to subscribe to your newsletter. Remove majority of the affiliate links off the site. Promote the products through the newsletter instead. I know this seems to be a radical move but this is just one of the solutions. I am sure there is some other solution. But if nothing works out, you are better off experimenting with what i have said.

Thanks

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seobuzz

12 years ago

I don't know why one of my website is improving traffic from the day you mentioned (Oct 14), may be because of minor Panda update. My site always benefits whatever there is update from Google.

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roynetwork7

12 years ago

I also noticed a change. 2 of my #1 sites moved to #6 and #8.

major blow.

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WealthyBlogger 12 years ago

Another interesting observation... while I am lower in Google since this update, I've risen in Bing.

Go figure. Unfortunately, Bing doesn't seem to bring me much traffic.
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Fraggler