Its not more links, its not your SEO. You don't rank because you won't change your dream

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#change #dream #links #rank #seo #true
  • Profile picture of the author Becker13
    Banned
    This is one of the best and most on the target posts i have read on here in a long time

    If a person does not gain anything from your site, google has nothing to gain from ranking you
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  • Profile picture of the author RevSEO
    Great advice...

    Everyone wants the "one button" solution to ranking a site, and never really look at it from a users perspective.

    Why the heck does anyone want to visit your crappy MFA, micro niche style site with Adsense plastered all over it? What value is that actually providing?

    As Google gets better and better you can bet that they will, if they haven't already, accounted for things like bounce rate, "block this domain", and other features in the SERPs.

    Make people WANT to link to you by providing kick-butt value. The rankings will naturally occur if you do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Becker13
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      Originally Posted by RevSEO View Post

      Great advice...

      Everyone wants the "one button" solution to ranking a site, and never really look at it from a users perspective.

      Why the heck does anyone want to visit your crappy MFA, micro niche style site with Adsense plastered all over it? What value is that actually providing?

      As Google gets better and better you can bet that they will, if they haven't already, accounted for things like bounce rate, "block this domain", and other features in the SERPs.

      Make people WANT to link to you by providing kick-butt value. The rankings will naturally occur if you do.

      Yep, most of my sites are authority sites and they got a HUGE boost from panda. Love it
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    Mike is 100% correct.

    Sometimes I just shake my head when I come across a site with 10 (poorly) spun "best dog training collar" articles and a mountain of Adsense ads.

    There is NOTHING wrong with micro niche sites. You just need to be a bit wiser when putting them together. Broaden the niche and create the content yourself. Instead of best-dog-training-collar(dot)com, why not register a dog training related domain and focus on different training techniques and supplies throughout your site? You can still rank your inner pages pretty well if your on-page SEO and backlinks are strong. And it is still VERY easy to rank product related pages if you know what you're doing.

    I guess you'd call them "micro authority" sites instead of "micro niche" sites. They don't have to be huge. But I think the days of ranking well with 5-10 poorly written or spun articles and an incredibly long EMD are going to end soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    Excellent advice ! EMD´s are important and help a lot with SEO and getting in the SERPs, but good quality, original content is equally as important.

    Add pages that discuss broader and different topics in the niche, even if (gasp) you are not trying to rank in the SERPs for that page or post.
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    • Profile picture of the author thomashoi
      Originally Posted by greenowl123 View Post

      Excellent advice ! EMD´s are important and help a lot with SEO and getting in the SERPs, but good quality, original content is equally as important.

      Add pages that discuss broader and different topics in the niche, even if (gasp) you are not trying to rank in the SERPs for that page or post.
      EMD with profitable keywords and low competition is the key. Less SEO required
      and quality content will shoot you to #1 spot in little time.
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      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by thomashoi View Post

        EMD with profitable keywords and low competition is the key. Less SEO required
        and quality content will shoot you to #1 spot in little time.
        so if you guys cant get the EMD for that kw, (all taken)d
        you go on to the next kw? even if that kw has zippo competition?
        If thats true I find that to be passing over a lot of good kws

        If I find kws that the first 3 on Google top 10 have less than 50 backlinks
        I can easily outrank those in no time EVEN WITH NO EMD
        whatever my domain is, would not be important

        I think you guys exaggerate the importance of EMDs
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by outwest View Post

          all I am saying is you should not need an EMD to get traffic, and it doesnt boost your site as much as most people think
          No, that's not what you said.

          You said...


          Originally Posted by outwest View Post

          there is a large percentage of the board, apparently doing this, buying EMDs which tells me right off the bat they are buying TONS of domains each targeted to one specific kw

          to me thats absolutely nuts
          not only do you have to pay for all those domain registrations but how do you possibly backlink/manage all those sites?. Its like ok do you know how to get traffic by backlinking/anchor text? apparently not

          ok one EMD ok thats traffic for that kw
          hmm I want to get traffic from another kw.........ok lets go buy another EMD for that one

          crazy

          And I pointed out that an EMD does not limit anyone to just one keyword.

          EMD's are not the end all be all of SEO, but they do give a boost. In any niche they can help, but they are only a small ranking factor.

          Down the road, I see the EMD boost going away. I'm surprised Google hasn't axed it already.
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          • Profile picture of the author outwest
            I do not disagree that EMDs give a SMALL boost, I do think it used to be bigger, some people say that the recent Panda actually boosted EMDs more, I dont know about that

            However
            In my opinion, looking actively for EMDs and targeting them, is a bit of a time waster since many of the kws I look at the EMDs are all taken
            certainly the better kws this is the case

            also if the EMD hunters are so intent on EMDs that they will pass up kws that they cant find EMDs on, well to me thats passing up a lot of good kws

            just my 2c
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            • Profile picture of the author JRemington
              That's some solid general advice that you're giving.

              However, I have 3 authority sites that were all hit by Panda poo.

              And I have 6 new sites which are keyword focused and which have benefited from the last Panda log drop.

              The 3 authority sites are in utter liquid Panda turd, but the new ones are nicely increasing and making new sales.

              My bread and butter was the main 3 sites with some well placed affiliate links.

              So while your advice is great, it doesn't mean that this Panda seems to have a couple of screws loose as it's dropping hefty, stinking great turds on the wrong sites in my opinion.

              Simple searches now reveal new, thin sites with 1 backlink appearing on the first page as well as the huge and respected authority sites. There doesn't appear to be a great deal of logic in this.
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            • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
              Originally Posted by outwest View Post

              I do not disagree that EMDs give a SMALL boost, I do think it used to be bigger, some people say that the recent Panda actually boosted EMDs more, I dont know about that

              However
              In my opinion, looking actively for EMDs and targeting them, is a bit of a time waster since many of the kws I look at the EMDs are all taken
              certainly the better kws this is the case

              also if the EMD hunters are so intent on EMDs that they will pass up kws that they cant find EMDs on, well to me thats passing up a lot of good kws

              just my 2c
              In your opinion, looking actively for EMDs and targeting them, is a bit of a time waster?

              I'm sure you have your own effective strategy, but dubbing what others do including myself as a time waster is a bit absurd.

              There are still many great EMDs to be found out there. Does it take awhile? Of course. But that's the point of keyword research, if you do 5 min. worth of research as opposed to an hour, you are going to miss out on more opportunities.

              Think about it like this. If the internet stays the same in its use of .com, .net, and .org domains in the next 10-20 years, think about the lucrativeness having EMDs for all the young guns stepping into the game.

              Sure, if I find a niche I want to compete in and I can't use an EMD, then i'll target the keywords and add something at the end that compliments it.

              But my initial search is always for the EMDs. I know in the end, they will prove to be VERY valuable over time.

              Google is always changing their algorithms. And one year google might put more value on EMDs, the next it might changes its mind. Regardless of googles weight on EMDs, as I pointed out in my earlier post, the social value is what truly matters.

              To have The EMD.com, EMD.net, or EMD.org, makes it much more appealing for traffic to click on, than a website that is not the EMK they are looking for.

              - Ryan :0
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Why settle for leftover scraps (EMDs/keywords) when you can rank an internal keyword page just as easy?



                Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

                In your opinion, looking actively for EMDs and targeting them, is a bit of a time waster?

                I'm sure you have your own effective strategy, but dubbing what others do including myself as a time waster is a bit absurd.

                There are still many great EMDs to be found out there. Does it take awhile? Of course. But that's the point of keyword research, if you do 5 min. worth of research as opposed to an hour, you are going to miss out on more opportunities.

                Think about it like this. If the internet stays the same in its use of .com, .net, and .org domains in the next 10-20 years, think about the lucrativeness having EMDs for all the young guns stepping into the game.

                Sure, if I find a niche I want to compete in and I can't use an EMD, then i'll target the keywords and add something at the end that compliments it.

                But my initial search is always for the EMDs. I know in the end, they will prove to be VERY valuable over time.

                Google is always changing their algorithms. And one year google might put more value on EMDs, the next it might changes its mind. Regardless of googles weight on EMDs, as I pointed out in my earlier post, the social value is what truly matters.

                To have The EMD.com, EMD.net, or EMD.org, makes it much more appealing for traffic to click on, than a website that is not the EMK they are looking for.

                - Ryan :0
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                • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Why settle for leftover scraps (EMDs/keywords) when you can rank an internal keyword page just as easy?
                  This.

                  People are too focused on EMD's. EMD this, EMD that.

                  Register your domain as broader / niche related phrase and target different keywords on your internal pages. (Instead of wasting hours upon hours trying to see if these keywords are available as EMD's.)

                  If your competition is lazy it doesn't matter if they registered the EMD. You can still easily outrank them with an internal page if you know what you're doing.
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                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                    Originally Posted by JSProjects View Post

                    This.

                    People are too focused on EMD's. EMD this, EMD that.

                    Register your domain as broader / niche related phrase and target different keywords on your internal pages. (Instead of wasting hours upon hours trying to see if these keywords are available as EMD's.)

                    If your competition is lazy it doesn't matter if they registered the EMD. You can still easily outrank them with an internal page if you know what you're doing.
                    Exactly!

                    Most folks fall for the EMD/keyword answer to all their seo problems & lack real seo, those guys are the easy competition.

                    If you see an EMD ranking #1 in the SERPs, that alone is a signal the keyword might be easy to rank for (without an EMD), check the internal page count (site:domain.com) + external backlinks.

                    If the EMD is 10 pages, with 200 crappy backlinks pointing at the Index page, BINGO!
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                    • Profile picture of the author outwest
                      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                      Exactly!

                      Most folks fall for the EMD/keyword answer to all their seo problems & lack real seo, those guys are the easy competition.

                      If you see an EMD ranking #1 in the SERPs, that alone is a signal the keyword might be easy to rank for (without an EMD), check the internal page count (site:domain.com) + external backlinks.

                      If the EMD is 10 pages, with 200 crappy backlinks pointing at the Index page, BINGO!
                      exactly thats what I observe
                      on my main competitor in my new niche he ranks 1,2 for about 500 kws
                      he certainly doesnt go out and buy EMDs
                      all his kws are ranking from ONE main domain, which does have a general niche type name, but I dont actually think even that domain is now that I think of it, named for the domain

                      everyone is crying because I DARED to say the EMD hunters are wasting their time

                      I am not necessarily saying their EMD domains are a waste of time
                      I am saying if they are actively hunting JUST FOR EMDs they certainly must be saying, OH FORGET THAT ONE when the EMD is not available

                      which to me is a waste
                      I agree with Yukon on this one

                      As I said to the EMD people
                      why
                      if EMD is so important
                      is my EMD for my resort kw (that I REALLY want to rank #1 for)
                      outranked by 11 other sites which really are not even that heavily backlinked

                      I have the EMD.net
                      and its #12

                      while sites ranking 1,2,3, do not even have the kw in their URL much less their domain?
                      So if EMD is SOOOOOOOOOO important
                      why are those guys outranking me, and I really cant even move up in the rankings much with new backlinks either?

                      Why? because the top 3 sites have way more high PR aged backlinks with that KW in the anchor text than I do.

                      Simple as that
                      EMD has NOTHING to do with my ranking on that kw

                      Now
                      sure you see EMDs ranking 1,2 3 all the time
                      but
                      how competitive is that kw, is the question
                      are they outranking sites with tons of high PR backlinks?
                      Nope
                      the probability is that the sites they outrank are weakly backlinked and they could outrank them WITHOUT THE EMD
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
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                        • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          I really didn't intend for this to be an anti EMD thread. I do see both sides - I think you just went too far Outwest when you say EMDs have no effect as you did in another thread. There is one very simple reason why beyond just the words in the URL that Emds can have a big effect and thats in getting links from webmasters who will only allow the name of the site in their links. There are quite a few great anchor text rich links that an EMD gets you in that case.

                          What I was pointing out was that in a blind allegiance to creating EMD sites you end up creating paper thin sites because the keywords EMDs limits what the sites can be about too much. I do agree with Yukon though that there is great power with internal linking and in adding canonical pages to your site. You CAN rank such sites and just as well as EMDs And frankly in the long term - when you build up your sites reputation and authority - even easier.

                          Plus I think what no one looks at is that marketers building sites that no one would EVER want to return to miss out on TON loads of traffic. They are wholly dependent on search engine traffic each month and the minute they slip they have no visitors. WF could disappear from the search engines tomorrow and still have significant repeat traffic. Keyword monthly traffic only show people that are still in the looking phase. Once I find sites that give me the information I want I no longer start my visits with Google. I go straight back to the sites and even if I start with Google I key in the name of the sites I want to find again - not run the same keywords over and over again. That cumulative return traffic is often greater than the monthly search volume. However to get that I HAVE to have something that is worth comign back to and lets face it of all the MFAs I see out there and hve been sown to me there are very few I would ever want to come back to.

                          Thats why You see Google does not value MFAs. the whole idea of adsense was to get their adwords people extra exposure to traffic that Google did not already have. With most MFAs all you are offering Google back is their own traffic and they would rather their traffic clicked on the add from the search results where they make all the money.
                          I agree with you Mike that there are many marketers that are building their sites wrong because they have the wrong information, or they think a thin site is going to be a long-term solution.

                          However, I want to mention, which I'm sure you are well aware of this, some sites are designed to not have repeat traffic, and that's ok.

                          That's the whole point sometimes, some information is meant to be a one time thing, you get it, and the next day you get completely new people. You can still have an authority site and have this effect.

                          So I would say that the repeat traffic argument is dependent on what kind of site you build, and a site that has little repeat traffic doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad site, all depends on the type of site.
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                          • Profile picture of the author troybh
                            The problem is most people here have no value to add to the internet. Their only knowledge is how to make and rank a site. Any knowledge they get is rehashed from other places on the internet. Mr. Anthony makes a point but the fact is internet marketers must do and continue to do what makes them money. Rehashing articles and making a website and repeat. Still a lot of junk out there ranking and this is not going to stop.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              Originally Posted by troybh View Post

                              T Mr. Anthony makes a point but the fact is internet marketers must do and continue to do what makes them money. Rehashing articles and making a website and repeat. Still a lot of junk out there ranking and this is not going to stop.
                              Troy if you want to throw the dice be my guess. Fact is TONs of people following that theory got slapped this year and are no longer making money so the whole argument that marketers must continue to do what makes them money is flat.

                              Its not making money for alot of people now. Keep the dream alive but no need to come in here later crying that Google just made another update and tanked your site.

                              Lets face it people in no other avenue of life or business could you rely on an advertiser bringing you customers if they told you point blank they are at war with your business. Sure many sites still slip through their cracks and get ranked but last time I checked The ultimate goal of marketers was to make money that could make a consistent change to their lives. If you do not adapt any day you can wake up and your online income is gone.

                              At the very least people need to have at least a few sites that give Google what they want or they don't have a business - just a hobby to get some Christmas money or some other temporary goals
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                          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                            Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

                            I agree with you Mike that there are many marketers that are building their sites wrong because they have the wrong information, or they think a thin site is going to be a long-term solution.

                            However, I want to mention, which I'm sure you are well aware of this, some sites are designed to not have repeat traffic, and that's ok.

                            That's the whole point sometimes, some information is meant to be a one time thing, you get it, and the next day you get completely new people. You can still have an authority site and have this effect.

                            So I would say that the repeat traffic argument is dependent on what kind of site you build, and a site that has little repeat traffic doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad site, all depends on the type of site.

                            I disagree with EMD's holding some kind of social value. About a year ago, I asked a bunch of people (300+) if they looked at the URL in the SERP before clicking on something. I was trying to grab some data for something else. I wasn't looking at anything to do with EMD's.

                            Anyhow, less than 10% said that they did. And those who said they did, almost all of them were internet marketers.

                            For most niches, your URL is not going to bring you any additional clicks. People look at the title tag and some look at the meta description. That's it.

                            Now, just one caveat to that. A year ago, the URLs were displayed under the meta description in Google if I remember correctly. They are now displayed right under the title tag, so that may have changed searcher's habits.

                            Anyhow, sorry to contribute to taking this thread off course.
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                            • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                              I disagree with EMD's holding some kind of social value. About a year ago, I asked a bunch of people (300+) if they looked at the URL in the SERP before clicking on something. I was trying to grab some data for something else. I wasn't looking at anything to do with EMD's.

                              Anyhow, less than 10% said that they did. And those who said they did, almost all of them were internet marketers.

                              For most niches, your URL is not going to bring you any additional clicks. People look at the title tag and some look at the meta description. That's it.

                              Now, just one caveat to that. A year ago, the URLs were displayed under the meta description in Google if I remember correctly. They are now displayed right under the title tag, so that may have changed searcher's habits.

                              Anyhow, sorry to contribute to taking this thread off course.
                              Where is this poll documented, or did you literally walk around asking people this LOL? If it was online do you have a link? Hell, I could say I interviewed 1000's of people, but that still provides no merit to the topic especially with no proof.

                              Not saying I don't believe you, but I would be interested to see the results of this. Even with 300 people, there are so many other factors to consider.

                              There is a whole market built on EMDs, and if you believe they have no social value, well I'm afraid you are missing the very large elephant in the room here.

                              I challenge anyone to put their money where their mouth is. I will swap out any domain that is aged, (hell I'll even buy one if I don't have one to exceed your age) for your less aged EMD, if it has no social value, and it's a "time-waster" as some of you have said that has an exact match search of at least 9,000 searches.

                              Let me break it down:

                              Lets say the keyword is: Apple Pie Recipes and that happened to get 9,000 exact searches, and you have ApplePieRecipes.com .net or .org, I will happily give you a more aged domain from my list of your choosing in exchange for that EMD that apparently has no social value.

                              I'm not exactly sure whether you are misinformed, or have had bad experiences.

                              But people new to IM and even veterans should recognize the social value of their EMDs. Is it going to give you a boost in SERP, a little bit, but as you build that site over time, you better believe that the power is going to increase substantially.

                              Not only will you get people that are actually typing your direct URL in, as the internet becomes better known for having EMDs for most keywords, but internet marketing is going to go through drastic changes (it is already), that is going to change a lot of the gaming of SEO, and turn it into the social power your website has.

                              This pretty much sums up my argument, I'm not sure if I'm going to bother to replying anymore to this thread, because there really is no debate here.

                              This point is mainly placed here, so someone reading this thread, especially someone new, doesn't say, oh these guys say it's a "time-waster" to look for EMDs, I should stop that.

                              It's up to you what is going to work best for you, but my suggestion to all, is don't accept what you read at first glance, experiment for yourself.

                              If anyone has any questions, or wants to further inquire into this topic, feel free to PM me.

                              Best of luck to all with your goals!

                              - Ryan
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                              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                                It was admittedly a small sample size that I polled. It was through an email list, facebook, and a blog. But it was enough for me to believe that people do not care about URLs in the SERPs.

                                Please explain the social value of EMDs, because what you are talking about is really making zero sense to me.

                                Is it just that you feel people are more likely to click on an EMD in the SERP? Is it that you think you are going to get tons of traffic from people typing in EMD.com?


                                This point especially makes no sense to me.

                                Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

                                but internet marketing is going to go through drastic changes (it is already), that is going to change a lot of the gaming of SEO, and turn it into the social power your website has.

                                Where does an EMD factor into that?
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                • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Why settle for leftover scraps (EMDs/keywords) when you can rank an internal keyword page just as easy?
                  What in the world makes you think the EMDs left would be leftover scraps?

                  There are new items, trends, topics, that come about every week which = New EMDs to Target

                  If you read what I said earlier, it's not so much the SEO as it is the social value.

                  If you are going to survive in internet marketing in the future, you must master both.

                  Edit (Just wanted to add this):

                  Why do you think domains like Shoes.com sold for millions of dollars? Of course this is a huge example, but over the years if the internet keeps its structure, the value of those EMDS will only rise.
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                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                    Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

                    What in the world makes you think the EMDs left would be leftover scraps?

                    There are new items, trends, topics, that come about every week which = New EMDs to Target

                    If you read what I said earlier, it's not so much the SEO as it is the social value.

                    If you are going to survive in internet marketing in the future, you must master both.

                    Edit (Just wanted to add this):

                    Why do you think domains like Shoes.com sold for millions of dollars? Of course this is a huge example, but over the years if the internet keeps its structure, the value of those EMDS will only rise.
                    So your saying nobody else can out rank shoes.com?

                    Last I checked shoes.com was ranking #3 for the keyword shoes on Google search.

                    The #1 site ranking for shoes when I search is dsw.com, hmmm... no EMD?

                    As far as the EMD selling for millions only proves, the seller knows when to cash out. It doesn't prove that an EMD has social value.
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                    • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                      So your saying nobody else can out rank shoes.com?

                      Last I checked shoes.com was ranking #3 for the keyword shoes on Google search.

                      The #1 site ranking for shoes when I search is dsw.com, hmmm... no EMD?

                      As far as the EMD selling for millions only proves, the seller knows when to cash out. It doesn't prove that an EMD has social value.
                      I never said nobody else can outrank shoes.com? You want to find the quote where I even indicated that?

                      So DSW.com is outranking Shoes.com, so what? What does that have to do with it being an EMD.

                      Unless you know the inner-workings of their campaign, you have no idea what they are spending on SEO.

                      I never once said that you can't outrank an EMD, obviously if you have an EMD, but someone beats you in other aspects of SEO, you will be outranked.

                      The point I made earlier, and I will once again, is outwest said it was a waste of time searching for EMDs and you agreed with him.

                      I would love for you to back up those claims with evidence? Showing websites that have outranked an EMD, proves absolutely nothing, it is irrelevant to that argument because there are too many other factors involved.

                      However, the social draw of an EMD will always be there. And it will continue to grow as long as the internet stays in this form, EMDs will still be available, but aged EMDs will have significant value for the very fact that they are an EMD.

                      You also said that the owner just knows when to cash out, it doesn't prove that it has social value? - You can't be serious? You don't think shoes.com has social value LOL.
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                      • Profile picture of the author yukon
                        Banned
                        If I already proved my point once, what else can I do to prove EMDs are not important?

                        So DSW.com is outranking Shoes.com, so what? What does that have to do with it being an EMD.
                        It proves that real seo trumps EMDs.


                        Shoes.com has no social value at all, it's nothing more than an EMD, which again isn't important.

                        Show us the people that care about the EMD (shoes.com).

                        Please don't post a shoes.com FB page, lol.



                        Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

                        I never said nobody else can outrank shoes.com? You want to find the quote where I even indicated that?

                        So DSW.com is outranking Shoes.com, so what? What does that have to do with it being an EMD.

                        Unless you know the inner-workings of their campaign, you have no idea what they are spending on SEO.

                        I never once said that you can't outrank an EMD, obviously if you have an EMD, but someone beats you in other aspects of SEO, you will be outranked.

                        The point I made earlier, and I will once again, is outwest said it was a waste of time searching for EMDs and you agreed with him.

                        I would love for you to back up those claims with evidence? Showing websites that have outranked an EMD, proves absolutely nothing, it is irrelevant to that argument because there are too many other factors involved.

                        However, the social draw of an EMD will always be there. And it will continue to grow as long as the internet stays in this form, EMDs will still be available, but aged EMDs will have significant value for the very fact that they are an EMD.

                        You also said that the owner just knows when to cash out, it doesn't prove that it has social value? - You can't be serious? You don't think shoes.com has social value LOL.
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                        • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                          If I already proved my point once, what else can I do to prove EMDs are not important?



                          It proves that real seo trumps EMDs.


                          Shoes.com has no social value at all, it's nothing more than an EMD, which again isn't important.

                          Show us the people that care about the EMD (shoes.com).

                          Please don't post a shoes.com FB page, lol.
                          Nice job disregarding every question I just asked. You've proved no points, the only thing you keep saying is you proved your point??? What?! :rolleyes:

                          Well if it was that easy, then there is no sense debating over it.

                          But just for your information even though I have a feeling you are going to completely ignore my points again:

                          The SEO is just part of the many factors that determines who outranks who, yet you keeping dragging EMD to the mix.

                          I never said man oh man, if you get the EMD, you can just sit on your *** and you win.

                          I have repeated over and over, it's the social value that matters, yes shoes does have social value. Why?! Because at the end of the day, it's not Google that is reading your articles for information, it's real human beings.

                          And age old advertising techniques would show you that certain things are going to stand out to people, especially a domain like Shoes.com

                          You can continue to live in fantasy land, and brush off people that are looking for EMDs, but for those that are reading this thread.

                          All you have to do is use some common sense. If you think internet marketing is going to stay the same, you are going to be in for a big surprise.

                          Start paying attention to the people that are searching your terms, a keyword that is an EMD for what people are looking for is going to hold a lot more SOCIAL value than one that doesn't, as it visually draws people in.

                          Btw sorry to Mike Anthony for getting off the topic on your original thread. I just can't stand by while such utter nonsense is posted especially for people new in IM to read.
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  • Profile picture of the author gtk29
    Very well said. It makes total sense. Google does not care about non-authority sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Genius post, Mike. It's tough to give a realistic assessment of a website, especially when it's been earning money. But there's no question what you say is true. The gig is up for low-quality websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeanneLynn
    Does anyone know what Google considers an authority site? I've heard that it's a site with 100 unique pages of content, but I'm not totally sure if this is true.

    This is a great post! Very useful information.
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    • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
      Originally Posted by JeanneLynn View Post

      Does anyone know what Google considers an authority site? I've heard that it's a site with 100 unique pages of content, but I'm not totally sure if this is true.

      This is a great post! Very useful information.
      I am also curious to know the answer to this. Does anybody know ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kauzmo
    An "authority site" is not defined by a specific number of pages. It is defined more or less if natural visitors and other website owners in that niche consider the site to be an authority.

    This happens organically over time, not by blasting 2000 - 10000 junk backlinks a month or littering the web with garbage articles that point back toward you.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    there is a large percentage of the board, apparently doing this, buying EMDs which tells me right off the bat they are buying TONS of domains each targeted to one specific kw

    to me thats absolutely nuts
    not only do you have to pay for all those domain registrations but how do you possibly backlink/manage all those sites?. Its like ok do you know how to get traffic by backlinking/anchor text? apparently not

    ok one EMD ok thats traffic for that kw
    hmm I want to get traffic from another kw.........ok lets go buy another EMD for that one


    crazy
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      outwest,

      Yes, buying an EMD for 1 keyword, would probably be foolish, unless it is a really good keyword.

      That is not what most people are doing though. They are buying the EMD of their main keyword, while still targeting others.

      They might get an EMD for a keyword that has 20,000 searches, but still target another 10 related keywords that each get 1,000-5,000 searches.
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    • Profile picture of the author thomashoi
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      there is a large percentage of the board, apparently doing this, buying EMDs which tells me right off the bat they are buying TONS of domains each targeted to one specific kw

      to me thats absolutely nuts
      not only do you have to pay for all those domain registrations but how do you possibly backlink/manage all those sites?. Its like ok do you know how to get traffic by backlinking/anchor text? apparently not

      ok one EMD ok thats traffic for that kw
      hmm I want to get traffic from another kw.........ok lets go buy another EMD for that one


      crazy
      Use PPC to test conversion rates first before building all the backlinks.

      Based on PPC test, you will discover how much money you can make
      by getting the #1 spot. If it's a profitable campaign, reinvest the money
      and outsource to VA to do the backlinking stuff so you can focus on another
      EMD campaign.

      So many people here are obsessed with SEO and backlinking without
      figuring out whether the campaign is profitable in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    how many 20k/month kws have EMD available
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      how many 20k/month kws have EMD available
      Jesus Christ! You argue with everything. Forget about the numbers. That was just an example.

      The point was that an EMD does not restrict someone to one keyword like you were implying.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
        It's hard to overstate how big a deal quality is. My blog doesn't have much traffic, but it's already developed a small but loyal following just by putting out good content consistently.

        And it's not even hard to maintain the flow. Most posts are 10-15 minutes to write and 10 to edit because the topics are actually interesting to me. I'm not trying to hammer an affiliate product into forced copy that no person wants to read.

        I've always believed that the only way to build a sustainable online thing is to focus on quality. Google is always moving toward quality, and it's getting closer in huge steps lately.
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      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Jesus Christ! You argue with everything. Forget about the numbers. That was just an example.

        The point was that an EMD does not restrict someone to one keyword like you were implying.
        all I am saying is you should not need an EMD to get traffic, and it doesnt boost your site as much as most people think, besides its only one kw its targeting. If EMDs help so much why is my EMD for my resort site kw I want to rank #1 on...........still only number 12 on Google (its an EMD .net). (none of the top 10 are EMDs for the kw , none of the top 10 even have the kw in their domain OR their url)
        Apparently , as I said, EMDs only work well on very non competitive terms. Try to rank an EMD top 3 when the competition has 1000s of aged high PR backlinks on a page targeting that kw. Good luck with that. it wont rank. (unless you outbacklink them)


        apparently you have issues with people not agreeing with you , I suggest counseling
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  • Profile picture of the author Daedalus
    In my opinion, the bounce rate of a website says everything about a website. I am monetizing my websites with AdSense, I am using an AdSense oriented theme, yet my bounce rate is 30% or so. Why? Simply because I invest a month or so into building it.

    What really makes me sad is the fact that people want to be internet marketeers, yet they don't know a first thing about marketing. They come here and cry about how they were tanked by Google and how it's not a good source of traffic, yet their sentences include ''makes canine collar increasingly not straightforward to does employ''. I think the main cause is that they become victims of the same marketing they want to become a part of. They fall for countless guides that promise 3 gazillion millions in 7 days for 2.99 that have nothing but affiliate links in them.

    You want a top secret formula? Place yourself into the shoes of those who enter your site. Include the information that they seek. And for god's sake, if you aren't a native speaker, have someone edit your articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
    I agree with Domsa about the bounce rate. Although that isn't the only factor in determining whether you have a good site or not, it has gone hand in hand with my successful sites in terms of being an indicator of nice cash flow.

    It is essential for me to only allow my sites to have high quality articles that are informative, interesting to read, original, and well written.

    The future of internet marketing is uncertain, but I think mixing it up as much as possible is the key to success.

    I'm not quite sure what the point is of worrying about these updates. It is out of our control, and if you are doing any artificial backlinking, which I would say a good 95 percent of us are, you are gaming the system.

    Is it fair? I don't think so. When you have a system with page 1 sites being either sites that are already extremely powerful or sites that have bought links, it's hard not to get in the game of it.

    My best advice is to make your content count for something. Try to make it provide value in some shape or form. As for SEO, that is subject to change over the months and years, figure out what works, mix it up every now and then, and hold on tight cuz it's going to be a bumpy ride.
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  • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
    Well Google and Yahoo and Bing have all said at one point or another the ol' moniker about "Content is King". Pretty sure Bing has this in their self-published SEO guide, but I could be mistaken.

    Anyways, I feel like people have held off jumping on the quality content wagon simply because it's perceived as more work. But that's not true at all!

    Why?

    Because good content promotes itself. Once you've done the initial promotional work, whether that's Press Releases or forum marketing (NOT profile links!) or Article Marketing or Answers sites or whatever your method is, then that really good content starts to promote itself. People read it, share it, and voila you have promotion.

    Personally, I get much more satisfaction seeing the numbers in my little FB / Twitter boxes jump up than I do my rankings...That's what let's me know people seriously dig my work. It's a good feeling.

    If you're not already putting in the work to create good content then you absolutely should start now. Like several have said it really doesn't take long, just do it.

    Sad part is most people can't even get themselves to sit down and legitimately work for the half hour to an hour it takes to write and publish a really good piece of content. Once you do you realize it's really not that difficult.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
      Originally Posted by stephenwaldo View Post

      I feel like people have held off jumping on the quality content wagon simply because it's perceived as more work. But that's not true at all!

      Why?

      Because good content promotes itself. Once you've done the initial promotional work, whether that's Press Releases or forum marketing (NOT profile links!) or Article Marketing or Answers sites or whatever your method is, then that really good content starts to promote itself. People read it, share it, and voila you have promotion.
      Well said! I think that's what people keep forgetting. They associate "quality content" with "spending lots of time doing hard work" or "spending lots of money to get something that's actually usable". However, they overlook the fact that quality content works for you.

      I don't spend nearly as much time as I should trying to get my content syndicated - but I still see my stuff getting republished all over the place. Articles that I wrote over a year ago are popping up on new sites all the time - all with my name and link at the bottom. The end result is a new link for me - along with plenty of new targeted readers - and I didn't have to do a thing to get any of it! It's completely passive! (and, isn't that what all of these people are really looking for?? Passive results??)

      You can bet that if I had published garbage content, it wouldn't keep popping up in new places. It wouldn't be working for me today. Sure, it would have been faster to throw together junk content, but since it wouldn't be giving me the same results, it would be a total waste of time!

      Originally Posted by stephenwaldo View Post

      Personally, I get much more satisfaction seeing the numbers in my little FB / Twitter boxes jump up than I do my rankings...That's what let's me know people seriously dig my work. It's a good feeling.
      Totally agree! It means that people are noticing what you're doing and appreciating it. And, isn't that what good websites are really supposed to do? Answer people's questions and solve their problems?
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  • Profile picture of the author Petesla
    Thanks for laying it out honestly. I'm new to IM and I joined a program that teaches us how to crank out thin content AdSense sites. They also teach how to build and sell ClickBank products via a seven day email teaser then product campaign, but I haven't gotten into that part yet. I thought I'd start with the lighter AdSense way, but what you have all said is true, it's not pretty. That's how I became a maker of AdSense sites and I hope someone can put me on a better path...

    I've run into exactly what you describe, on the sites I'm making there's not much in the way of content for the reader of the site (so they click an ad to surf away) and there's very little new to say when cranking out articles. Now, I haven't put badly spun absolute garbage out there and the sites aren't ALL ads, but there sites are just "meh".

    And I'm realizing exactly what Mike thankfully laid out, that this doesn't feel like I'm doing anyone a service, I can't see how Google would value it either, and it's exhausting to think of doing more sites like this over and over.

    I was drawn to affiliate marketing because I enjoy the technology side, marketing, sales and writing, but I don't have a product or field of my own to promote.

    So, does someone have advice for a hardworking guy to add value out there and build a real business? Should I pick a theme like organic gardening (just an example) that has ample CB or other affiliate opportunities and write to entertain and inform?

    I don't mind learning the new topics, but what's best practices on how to monetize it without being spammy? List building, but with an eye toward delivering quality?

    There's SO much junky advice (and good) out there sometimes good people end up following bad advice. The people who responded here have the add-value attitude that appeals to me. How do I get out of the spammy side and into the quality world?

    Thanks for the great, great post. Well titled!
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    Wow, I pop in after a hiatus, and find myself agreeing with a post by Mike Anthony.

    Astonishing times.
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  • Profile picture of the author LakiPolitis
    Couldn't agree more, man. I spent the last month revising a couple of our business' sites completely. Updating the graphics, content, interactivity, and doing all the actual on-page seo things that needed to be done, while integrating social media. It takes time and its not that easy, but the pay out is WAY more impressive than simply buying links til you get axed again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny GotPaid
    I totally agree with this. The increase in technology has subsequently increased the laziness in people. They don't want to work for anything any more, they don't cook their meals, they want it now, they want it already made and they just want to microwave it.

    They don't want to get up and change the channel, they want a remote, they don't want to build a good valuable site, they want a premade microwavable NOW site splashed together with automated tools and fiverr and spun so bad english speaking people can barely make sense of it. (And still expect to get paid for it)
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  • Profile picture of the author linkbuildr
    best post I've ever read on here
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  • Profile picture of the author Tacit
    I think EDMs are just part of the larger picture. The onus should be still be on creating good content, getting a proper on and offpage strategy (EDM is just one part of the onpage strategy).
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  • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
    To Mike:

    Please explain the social value of EMDs

    The online universe is in a sense a replica of the real business world.

    Your domain, is your name, your identity.

    If a person is driving down the street, and there are 10 buildings lined up (lets pretend thats google rank).

    And they are looking for Shoes, what do you think is going to stand out the most? The store that says Shoes, or the store that doesn't?


    You asked if I feel people are more likely to click on an EMD in the SERP?

    Absolutely I do! I also think you are limiting your thinking about how people will be finding information especially over the next decade. SERPs will be one of many factors, and having those EXACT keywords for your main target keyword as your domain will add to the value.

    You think you are going to get tons of traffic from people typing in EMD.com?

    Depends on the category, and search volume. Over time I believe typing in a URL will become more mainstream, because people that are savvy will target peoples exact questions.

    I again invite you to take on my challenge since it "makes no sense to" you.

    Riddle me this

    Lets say your top (main keyword is):

    Dog Training

    Would you rather have:

    DogTraining.com (as a brand new domain)

    or DogTrainingHQ.com (as a 1 year old domain)

    Now think wisely about this, because everything you are indicating points towards DogTrainingHq.com by how little you regard EMDs in social value.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Ok I get what you are saying, but...

      I still think a good title tag will trump a good URL 999 times out of 1000. There is much more "social value" in a catch phrase than there is in an EMD.

      As far as dogtraining.com versus dogtraininghq.com, I think you just made a point that flies in the face of everything else you said.

      Everything else being equal, I would say that DogTrainingHQ.com has more "social value". To an observer I would think that it sounds like a site with more authority and know-how than just DogTraining.com.

      So would DogTrainingAcademy.com and DogTrainingFAQs.com.

      Going back to your argument of driving down the street and I needed a dog trainer, if I saw 3 businesses lined up that were called...

      Dog Training
      Dog Training HQ
      Dog Training Academy

      Dog Training would be the last one I would check out.


      And for the shoes example... Flying Feet and Finish Line are two very popular places to get shoes. Neither has the word shoes in their name, but I would shop at either of them before going to PayLessShoes. Same with Dick's Sporting Goods and Sports Authority.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        And for the shoes example... Flying Feet and Finish Line are two very popular places to get shoes. Neither has the word shoes in their name, but I would shop at either of them before going to PayLessShoes. Same with Dick's Sporting Goods and Sports Authority.
        I think you explained it better than I could.

        I think others are confusing average EMDs with branding.

        Anyone not on Social Security knows that "Finish Line" = shoes (sport related clothes). "Finish Line" is the brand, sure they have an EMD, but it's for the brand (Finish Line).

        Offline, If I'm driving down the street & see two stores (Shoes & Finish Line), I wouldn't even think about it, I would stop at Finish Line.

        Why would I stop at Finish Line & not the generic Shoes store, because I know Finish Line has cool shoes/clothes. It's been pounded in my head since I was a teen (tv commercials, magazine Ads, friends (social), etc...) that Finish Line has cool stuff to buy.

        I've never once in my life seen a tv commercial or magazine Ad for a generic term like shoes. The word is to broad, means nothing to me, therefore no social value.

        Anyone ever had a friend say "Let's go down to Shoes & see what they have to buy"?

        Again, EMDs & branding are not the same things.

        I didn't intend on sidetracking OPs thread, I'm done, I have no idea how to further explain EMDs are not a solution to seo.
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        • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I think you explained it better than I could.

          I think others are confusing average EMDs with branding.

          Anyone not on Social Security knows that "Finish Line" = shoes (sport related clothes). "Finish Line" is the brand, sure they have an EMD, but it's for the brand (Finish Line).

          Offline, If I'm driving down the street & see two stores (Shoes & Finish Line), I wouldn't even think about it, I would stop at Finish Line.

          Why would I stop at Finish Line & not the generic Shoes store, because I know Finish Line has cool shoes/clothes. It's been pounded in my head since I was a teen (tv commercials, magazine Ads, etc...) that Finish Line has cool stuff to buy.

          I've never once in my life seen a tv commercial or magazine Ad for a generic term like shoes. The word is to broad, means nothing to me, therefore no social value.

          Again, EMDs & branding are not the same things.
          You are dead on right about EMDs & Branding are not the same thing.

          So I'm confused why this is relevant to the argument?

          I invite you to answer my question above, how many shoe companies do you think would turn down the opportunity to own shoes.com, and then you tell me EMD has no social value.
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      • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Ok I get what you are saying, but...

        I still think a good title tag will trump a good URL 999 times out of 1000. There is much more "social value" in a catch phrase than there is in an EMD.

        As far as dogtraining.com versus dogtraininghq.com, I think you just made a point that flies in the face of everything else you said.

        Everything else being equal, I would say that DogTrainingHQ.com has more "social value". To an observer I would think that it sounds like a site with more authority and know-how than just DogTraining.com.

        So would DogTrainingAcademy.com and DogTrainingFAQs.com.

        Going back to your argument of driving down the street and I needed a dog trainer, if I saw 3 businesses lined up that were called...

        Dog Training
        Dog Training HQ
        Dog Training Academy

        Dog Training would be the last one I would check out.


        And for the shoes example... Flying Feet and Finish Line are two very popular places to get shoes. Neither has the word shoes in their name, but I would shop at either of them before going to PayLessShoes. Same with Dick's Sporting Goods and Sports Authority.
        I'm disappointed you didn't directly answer my questions as I did yours (at least the very important ones). I feel you're dancing around the argument (no offense).

        So back to my question, are you saying that you would choose DogTrainingHq.com over DogTraining.com? even if the HQ site had a year on the dog training site.

        As for your statement about a catch phrase, sure that's important, but guess what, if you are in the top ten, you can change your catch phrase to match your competitors with the simplicity of changing the words and a click.

        Given the success of one of my best sites, my competitors actually changed the titles and descriptions to more closely match mine. Therefore, if you can change it on the spot, it doesn't give you as much of an edge when it can be replicated, as opposed to a domain name, especially an EMD which is unique and cannot be replicated, unless they register the same name with another extension.

        Your example of well known stores is of course in an opinion based on your preferences. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Unless you are running commercials and other forms of marketing that probably run into the 100's of thousands of dollars, or you've come up with something completely unique, using brands is irrelevant because there are too many other factors.

        See how many shoe companies would turn down the opportunity to own the EMD shoes.com for the keyword shoes, and then you tell me EMD's have little to no social value.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

          I'm disappointed you didn't directly answer my questions as I did yours (at least the very important ones). I feel you're dancing around the argument (no offense).

          So back to my question, are you saying that you would choose DogTrainingHq.com over DogTraining.com? even if the HQ site had a year on the dog training site.
          I'm not sure what I didn't answer. I think I made it pretty clear that I would take DogTrainingHQ.com over DogTraining.com if i am basing my decision solely on what you are calling "social value".
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          • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            I'm not sure what I didn't answer. I think I made it pretty clear that I would take DogTrainingHQ.com over DogTraining.com if i am basing my decision solely on what you are calling "social value".
            Actually I asked:

            Lets say your top (main keyword is):

            Dog Training

            Would you rather have:

            DogTraining.com (as a brand new domain)

            or DogTrainingHQ.com (as a 1 year old domain)

            Which would require an answer for which you would rather have.

            You replied:
            Everything else being equal, I would say that DogTrainingHQ.com has more "social value". To an observer I would think that it sounds like a site with more authority and know-how than just DogTraining.com.

            Nowhere in that statement did you indicate which one you would take if presented with the two. That's wordplay sir, and I'm no stranger to that.

            So in response you didn't make it pretty clear.
            I just wanted to set the record straight, so if anyone reviews this forum, they can see that this is your choice to back up your argument.
            Now it's up to everyone else to judge based on the arguments presented. Especially when a backer of the EMD = no social value opinion would choose DogTrainingHQ.com (1 year old domain) over DogTraining.com (New Domain).
            - Ryan "0


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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

              Actually I asked:

              Lets say your top (main keyword is):

              Dog Training

              Would you rather have:

              DogTraining.com (as a brand new domain)

              or DogTrainingHQ.com (as a 1 year old domain)

              Which would require an answer for which you would rather have.

              You replied:
              Everything else being equal, I would say that DogTrainingHQ.com has more "social value". To an observer I would think that it sounds like a site with more authority and know-how than just DogTraining.com.

              Nowhere in that statement did you indicate which one you would take if presented with the two. That's wordplay sir, and I'm no stranger to that.

              So in response you didn't make it pretty clear.
              I just wanted to set the record straight, so if anyone reviews this forum, they can see that this is your choice to back up your argument.
              Now it's up to everyone else to judge based on the arguments presented. Especially when a backer of the EMD = no social value opinion would choose DogTrainingHQ.com (1 year old domain) over DogTraining.com (New Domain).
              - Ryan "0


              Jesus Christ. Would you stop talking in cirlces?

              I said all things being equal I would take dogtraininghq.com over dogtraining.com.

              I'm sorry you couldn't see that in my response, but I think to most people reading this thread they would have made that connection from my post.

              Just in case you are not clear... I WOULD TAKE DOGTRAININGHQ.COM OVER DOGTRAINING.COM IF I WAS BASING A DECISION ON "SOCIAL VALUE".

              Now please explain why you wouldn't and stop avoiding it.
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              • Profile picture of the author RatRaceWatch
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Jesus Christ. Would you stop talking in cirlces?

                I said all things being equal I would take dogtraininghq.com over dogtraining.com.

                I'm sorry you couldn't see that in my response, but I think to most people reading this thread they would have made that connection from my post.

                Just in case you are not clear... I WOULD TAKE DOGTRAININGHQ.COM OVER DOGTRAINING.COM IF I WAS BASING A DECISION ON "SOCIAL VALUE".

                Now please explain why you wouldn't and stop avoiding it.
                Wow, really man? You think with a conversation being in text for us to see EXACTLY what was said, there would be no reason to disort things.

                You never said:

                I said all things being equal I would take dogtraininghq.com over dogtraining.com.

                I then responded that you were using wordplay and avoiding the answer.

                Then you finally clarified saying you're not sure what you didn't answer.

                I then SHOWED you your quote, and now you come back with this?

                Now you ask to please explain why I wouldn't and stop avoiding it.

                Again.... you never addressed me to do so, this is ridiculous, please re-read the conversation before you continue to distort the situation further.

                And I would love to know how I am talking in circles? I've answered all your questions, while I've had to ask you over and over to give me clear answers on yours. Are you sure that isn't self-directed at yourself.

                If you can't address the conversation/debate in a sensible tone, then it's best to stay out of it.

                As for the question I was never asked until now:

                I would choose DogTraining.com over DogTrainingHQ.com because the simple authority of the domain name. People aren't stupid, and they recognize the importance of a rare name.

                I asked a friend of mine and my girlfriend who knows nothing about internet marketing today which one they would click on, they answered the DogTraining, and then they joked that it was probably owned by some large corporation and worth a million dollars.

                People weren't born yesterday, and they understand the importance of a site that is the Direct, Exact title of what they are looking for.

                I know this to be true both in the online and offline world, and internet marketers deserve to know the truth.

                Which side they choose to take is up to them, but avoiding my challenge, misreading the conversation, avoiding direct answers, and then getting pissed that I point it out, doesn't say much for the merits of your point.

                I'm getting tired of arguing this topic with you, and sadly this wasn't the original subject of the thread, but I found I had to defend myself and the point against what I believe to be ridiculous claims.

                People will do what they will. Choose your side wisely.

                P.S. Please don't pose another question at me, because after this debate, I've lost some respect for people (I won't name names whether or not it's obvious), and I refuse to address people that are disregarding their text, etched in the internet universe for everyone to see.

                - Peace & Love Warriors

                - Ryan
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              • Profile picture of the author outwest
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Jesus Christ. Would you stop talking in cirlces?

                I said all things being equal I would take dogtraininghq.com over dogtraining.com.

                I'm sorry you couldn't see that in my response, but I think to most people reading this thread they would have made that connection from my post.

                Just in case you are not clear... I WOULD TAKE DOGTRAININGHQ.COM OVER DOGTRAINING.COM IF I WAS BASING A DECISION ON "SOCIAL VALUE".

                Now please explain why you wouldn't and stop avoiding it.
                and you say I am the one who likes to argue with everybody?
                You seem to be getting the reputation as an arguing troublemaker
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                Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
                specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    EMD work because of the need for Google to show brands for brand searches. Maybe they have figured out another way of doing this or not, I don't know.

    I just consider EMDs as short term money makers and lose no sleep if they drop.
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  • Profile picture of the author Goath
    I have to agree, but our time is limited. If you want to put up great, authorative websites you need a lot of time. The easy, short way is attractive. But it's also a short term solution. If it's earning a lot of money in short term, you can use that money (if you are smart) for long term business.

    That's the way I would do it. But I'm too lazy!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Goath View Post


      That's the way I would do it. But I'm too lazy!
      Perhaps but I find that where people are lazy is with thinking. I see people who have the lazy my way to success dream that spend a whole lot of effort and time on it. They spend hours doing keyword research, hours on picking PLR content , hours selecting backlink packages and going through various WSO offers.

      They just don't add the time and effort of going after the succeed by laziness dream.
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  • Profile picture of the author realmaverick
    The core message is good. However, it often can be their links and their SEO that's all wrong. But sure, often it can be the websites themselves.

    Onsite SEO is important. And as Mark said, junk websites will struggle to rank more and more, rightly so. That said, I've seen plenty of quality sites get caught up in the Panda bullcrap.
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    SEO, Web Design, Graphic Design

    Realisation: 10% of the members on WF, are making money from the other 90%.
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  • Profile picture of the author realmaverick
    Guys arguing isn't helping nobody. Fighting to prove one another wrong, proves nothing more than being right, is more important to you, than being helpful. In which case, maybe you're in the wrong place.

    Or maybe you just need to stop for a second and consider how bitching at one another is a waste of time and not perceived particularly well, by those observing.

    Lets all compare cock size with photos
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    SEO, Web Design, Graphic Design

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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    I agree that Google is only looking after its users, and has always stated quality sites and a professional appearance is what it's after
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by dagaul101 View Post

      I agree that Google is only looking after its users, and has always stated quality sites and a professional appearance is what it's after
      You bring up an important factor when you say appearance. Nobody ever talks about how your site looks, but it seems that's getting to be a huge factor.

      Google even said you should ask yourself: "would I be comfortable giving my credit card to this website?" The answer is "NO" for lots of websites out there that have been shoddily constructed and then heavily backlinked for rankings.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Ok. My exact words were...

        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Everything else being equal, I would say that DogTrainingHQ.com has more "social value". To an observer I would think that it sounds like a site with more authority and know-how than just DogTraining.com.
        Which I think makes it pretty clear that I'm picking DogTrainingHQ.com over DogTraining.com based on your social value stuff.

        Then I went on to explain why.

        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Going back to your argument of driving down the street and I needed a dog trainer, if I saw 3 businesses lined up that were called...

        Dog Training
        Dog Training HQ
        Dog Training Academy

        Dog Training would be the last one I would check out.
        But forget about all that. I think at this point, I've made it clear which one I believe has more social value.

        I love EMDs... for their SEO value. All I'm asking for is to show me some proof of what you are saying. Show me an experiment that was done where an EMD got far more clicks than a closely related URL or an extensive poll that was done to see which people would be more likely to click on (preferably a poll of non internet marketers).

        So far the only evidence you have come close to providing us is...


        Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

        I asked a friend of mine and my girlfriend who knows nothing about internet marketing today which one they would click on, they answered the DogTraining, and then they joked that it was probably owned by some large corporation and worth a million dollars.
        Which is a very scientific way to do things because A) I'm sure they were not biased at all and B) it is a huge sample size.

        And please show some evidence for this other than your feelings.

        Originally Posted by RatRaceWatch View Post

        People weren't born yesterday, and they understand the importance of a site that is the Direct, Exact title of what they are looking for.

        I know this to be true both in the online and offline world, and internet marketers deserve to know the truth.
        In the internet marketing world, when talking to some people, I've actually found the opposite to be true. Many people have told me they avoid the EMD URL because they know it is probably just some spammy junk site (which most of them are). Hell, I do it. For example, when I'm looking for the review of some product, if I see a productnamereview.com website, I avoid it because I know it is probably an affiliate site with a completely biased review.

        All I'm asking for is some concrete proof of what you are saying. People constantly post stuff in here as fact with nothing to back it up other than what they think or feel. I'm not even arguing that you are wrong. I'm just saying show some proof.
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