500 word or 1000 word articles?

92 replies
  • SEO
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Hi,

I'm building my first adsense website and I'm outsourcing the content.

I'm not sure which is better to rank in google 500 word or 1000 word articles. Will it make a difference in the eyes of the search engines? 1000 word articles are expensive.

Ahmed
#500 #articles #word
  • Profile picture of the author Kauzmo
    Article length is nearly irrelevant. You need relevant content, something useful for your visitors.
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    • Profile picture of the author caseycase
      Originally Posted by Kauzmo View Post

      Article length is nearly irrelevant. You need relevant content, something useful for your visitors.
      That is not entirely correct. 1000 word articles are definitely better from an SEO perspective. However, they should definitely be relevant and optimized, and that does not mean that 500 words will not be enough to get you ranked.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Baker
    I prefer use a 500-600 word articles so that it would be easy to optimize.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by AhmedA View Post

    Hi,

    I'm building my first adsense website and I'm outsourcing the content.

    I'm not sure which is better to rank in google 500 word or 1000 word articles. Will it make a difference in the eyes of the search engines? 1000 word articles are expensive.

    Ahmed
    If you break that 1,000 word article up into two pages that are 100% relevant to each other & with keyword internal linking, you'll stand a better chance at ranking two pages in Google SERPs for the same exact keyword, rather than a single page that consist of 1,000 words.

    Let the two internal pages support each other.

    Which would you rather have, one page or two pages ranking in the SERPs for a single keyword?

    I choose two pages.

    Just like anything in SEO, nothing is guaranteed. Still proper internal linking is half the work to get multiple pages ranked per single keyword.
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    • Profile picture of the author ProfJannes
      500 or a 1000 words, you can decide. However the article formatting is also important, adding some bullets and additional headings, don's just paste a bunch of text.

      ~ Jannes
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    • Profile picture of the author WallyworldWf
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      If you break that 1,000 word article up into two pages that are 100% relevant to each other & with keyword internal linking, you'll stand a better chance at ranking two pages in Google SERPs...


      Still proper internal linking is half the work to get multiple pages ranked per single keyword.
      Any chance you can elaborate on this some?

      Does this mean that on my secondary page that I have a sidebar linking to the home page?

      or

      Does this mean that my secondary page just has a reference to the main keyword of the site?

      or

      Does the secondary page have an actual link within the article itself that makes some reference to the first page?

      thanks!
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by WallyworldWf View Post

        Any chance you can elaborate on this some?

        Does the secondary page have an actual link within the article itself that makes some reference to the first page?

        thanks!

        Yes, cross linking highly relevant pages will help support the keywords that your targeting.

        It doesn't have to be an Index page, it can be any page as long as it's 100% on topic with the page your linking to.

        Example two internal page titles:



        1) Automobile History - The History of Cars and Engines
        Keyword = automobile history


        2) The History of the Automobile - Steam Cars
        Keyword = steam cars
        Both pages above are 100% related to each other, with proper internal/external keyword anchor-text it's very likely they would both rank on page #1 for both keywords. So instead of having two pages ranked with two SERP listings you would have four listings in the SERPs.

        The amount of external backlinks per page would totally depend on how tough the keyword competition is. The highly relevant internal linking sets the stage for better SERP listings, & lightens the load for external links.

        It doesn't eliminate external backlinks, still it does produce very good SERP results especially considering the the amount of work isn't that much more than what you would already be doing anyways.

        Planning ahead how you build your pages will defiantly bring in more free SERP traffic with little extra work.

        You can also create small internal linking loops with your internal pages, to help get double & triple SERP listings (per keyword).
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        • Profile picture of the author packerfan
          Can everyone get just a dose of common sense please?

          Go google online stopwatch. You'll see this site is ranked #1... Online Stopwatch.

          Now, that page has like 300 words, and about 50% of those are links. Oh, did I mention it's sole purpose is a flash based app.

          Here's how Google sees the site... Online Stopwatch


          So, again, broad generalizations like 1000 being better than 500 are silly.

          If it takes you 300 words, say it in 300 words. If it takes 3,000, then take 3,000.

          However, I am in the camp of if you can break it into multiple documents and have it be a good user experience, do that. But to each their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicky Papers
    From a search engine perspective it really doesn't make a difference as content relevancy is the more critical factor, regardless of content length on a per page basis.

    Additionally, the length of your content (per page) should parallel your competition. Not sure how to evaluate the Top 10 results? Try using SERP IQ to make content evaluation easier.

    I'd stick with the 500 word articles as you've indicated that you are price conscious. Reducing the article size from 1000 to 500 words will give you more opportunities to create new pages and URL structures to build links to which may lead to more pages indexed and the site ranking for more keywords that you are targeting.
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  • Profile picture of the author OO
    I've been hearing through seminars that longer is better due to panda updates
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  • Profile picture of the author Clint Faber
    We have a lot of experience in article creation and have tried many different tactics says for us the length and format of different articles and have found the following....

    Anything below 500 words produces less authority in article directories intend to get harder to be indexed.

    Anything close to 1000 words we tend to get no click through's in article directories.

    Articles around 500 words enticing the user to want more information gets us 5 to 10 click through's per article in article directories and are seen as more relevant to search engines.

    PDF documents are about the same although they are harder to track they seem to produce higher rankings in Google as well as more traffic from the document sharing sites as they have yet to be hit very hard by Internet marketers. (Just a assumption)
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  • Profile picture of the author amherstsowell
    Its Depend on your Topic if you topic finish in 500 so its okie otherwise if 600 700 no issue. main point is that explain your topic clearly. Normally its 500 to 600 is the minimum length or article.
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  • Profile picture of the author bikramksingh
    Keep it around 500-600 and make the formatting interesting to keep the visitors glued. Do not let it look text-heavy.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoMonster1
    It does not varies whatever the size of your article is if the content is original, informative, easy to understand, well-structured, qualitative and more importantly maintain seo rules with proper keyword density.
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  • Profile picture of the author lancejeffersons
    I prefer 500-750 words on a article..It must informative, unique, fresh and have quality..Not just copied from other website..
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    500-600 word articles with the occasional 800 is what I am for. Anything longer people tend to switch off and lose interest. The idea is to not only keep your visitors reading the article but to follow through to other articles on your site as well. So when I tend to use two internal anchor texts both going to the next article. One using the keyword the article is optimized for and the second for the keyword the next article is optimized for. This way it's easier throwing in a hook to keep the read on the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimagiba
    1000 word articles if best for SEO tecniques but is time consuming and if your paying for writing it will cost you a lot.

    500-600 is fair for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkthomas
    you can hire me for content writing , i will be more effective for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Crank
    It's hard to imagine any 500 words article that could provide some great answer on any subject, but the goal of an article marketing is usually to bring a visitor from article to a website, so...
    And with the last update from Google - it states that there's more chances to get indexed all of your huge content now, so 1000 words (unique) should work well.
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    • Profile picture of the author WilsonJ
      Ive always preferred a word count of
      600-800 for a regular blog post..
      500-700 for a landing page..
      1000-1200 for an article which is published on article directories or websites like squido, hubpage etc..
      and so far it has worked well for me.
      Anything below 500 is bad for me..
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      • Profile picture of the author SenTosch
        Banned
        In my experience 700/800 word articles work best for me for ranking. Of course with the relevant h1, h2, h3 tags. Proper keyword density and all other onsite SEO. I also make sure to include other keywords in the article linking to other related posts.
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      • Profile picture of the author AlvinBasil
        500 to 1000 words are sufficient for an article and it is best for SEO techniques.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryMartha
    above 500 words article best for ranking
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  • Profile picture of the author dchuk
    In a few weeks we'll be posting an article to the serpIQ.com blog that will share the data regarding the 1.5 million + URLs worth of data we've collected and specifically content length will be covered in one (we're covering about 10 different important metrics in individual posts).

    I can share right now though, that anyone who says 500 words is all you need is not correct, it's much longer than that for most #1 results...
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    • Profile picture of the author cashtree
      Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

      In a few weeks we'll be posting an article to the serpIQ.com blog that will share the data regarding the 1.5 million + URLs worth of data we've collected and specifically content length will be covered in one (we're covering about 10 different important metrics in individual posts).

      I can share right now though, that anyone who says 500 words is all you need is not correct, it's much longer than that for most #1 results...
      Can you really use coloration as causation? Having data and stats is great, but it's not by any means be all end all.
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      • Profile picture of the author dchuk
        Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

        Can you really use coloration as causation? Having data and stats is great, but it's not by any means be all end all.
        I totally agree, but it's hard to argue the fact that the median length of content for #1 results across the 160,000+ keywords we've had customers analyze is longer than 1500 words with something like 75% of #1 results having content longer than 500 words doesn't mean SOMETHING from the SEO perspective.

        I'd much rather have someone tell me something and then hand me raw data and graphs than a panel of people asked their opinion instead.
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      • Profile picture of the author getaloadathisguy
        Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

        Can you really use coloration as causation?
        inb4 Dresden....
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

      In a few weeks we'll be posting an article to the serpIQ.com blog that will share the data regarding the 1.5 million + URLs worth of data we've collected and specifically content length will be covered in one (we're covering about 10 different important metrics in individual posts).

      I can share right now though, that anyone who says 500 words is all you need is not correct, it's much longer than that for most #1 results...
      So, is 5,000 words per page going to beat 500 words in the SERPs?

      My point is, text quantity isn't going to rank a page.
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      • Profile picture of the author dchuk
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        So, is 5,000 words per page going to beat 500 words in the SERPs?

        My point is, text quantity isn't going to rank a page.
        well, I'm making my point backed with millions of data points, so I'm not exactly sure what else you're looking for here. I can just make up a number like everyone else in this thread or I can query my database and tell you definitively what hundreds of thousands of urls ranking on Google right now actually have going on.

        If you're telling me the data we have doesn't prove anything, then you're going to need to provide something more than opinion to prove me wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

          well, I'm making my point backed with millions of data points, so I'm not exactly sure what else you're looking for here. I can just make up a number like everyone else in this thread or I can query my database and tell you definitively what hundreds of thousands of urls ranking on Google right now actually have going on.

          If you're telling me the data we have doesn't prove anything, then you're going to need to provide something more than opinion to prove me wrong.
          Your data is skewed based on the fact that it's only directly associated with your product.

          The majority of the net doesn't use your product.

          Anyone that's been doing SEO longer than a month should already know you can rank a page with a single text word, heck even zero text, or an image.

          Please don't turn this into next generation keyword stuffing/density, this forum gets enough of those questions already.

          500 words is way more than enough text on a page, proof is in the real world organic SERPs. I'm not saying 500 should be a target number for the amount of text on a page, write normal, write pages that make sense, write pages that don't have the traffic looking for the browser Back button because their borderline comatose from reading thousands of words on a single page.

          Common sense trumps data.
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          • Profile picture of the author dchuk
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Your data is skewed based on the fact that it's only directly associated with your product.

            The majority of the net doesn't use your product.

            Anyone that's been doing SEO longer than a month should already know you can rank a page with a single text word, heck even zero text, or an image.

            Please don't turn this into next generation keyword stuffing/density, this forum gets enough of those questions already.

            500 words is way more than enough text on a page, proof is in the real world organic SERPs. I'm not saying 500 should be a target number for the amount of text on a page, write normal, write pages that make sense, write pages that don't have the traffic looking for the browser Back button because their borderline comatose from reading thousands of words on a single page.

            Common sense trumps data.
            You say in one breath that our SERP data isn't relevant at all and then say "proof is in the real world organic SERPs"? I am surprised I have to sit here and explain to you how you've twisted yourself around, but well, you're supporting my argument with yours at this point.

            I know I have, what, 20 posts here, but I've been doing SEO for nearly 5 years now. My argument is laying on the table right now with a few million data points from real SERPs from real SEOs who are ranking for real keywords that actually matter (or else why would they be researching them) and you're really countering with "common sense" and opinion is all you need? I dare you to ask any SEO at all in the world whose side they'd choose in this situation.

            SEO is a game of data, opinions don't matter. I can literally prove you wrong with a graph right now. I'm not arguing that you can't rank a site with a small amount of content, of course you can. But not all keywords are created equal. Try ranking for anything actually worth ranking for with no content and it simply won't happen.

            This has nothing to do with keyword stuffing or density or any of that. Remember that little Panda thing? It was entirely about content. And you mean to tell me I have 1.5 million data points that are just...not relevant compared to your common sense? Come on man, stop spreading disinformation, it's what ruins the SEO community.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

              You say in one breath that our SERP data isn't relevant at all and then say "proof is in the real world organic SERPs"? I am surprised I have to sit here and explain to you how you've twisted yourself around, but well, you're supporting my argument with yours at this point.

              I know I have, what, 20 posts here, but I've been doing SEO for nearly 5 years now. My argument is laying on the table right now with a few million data points from real SERPs from real SEOs who are ranking for real keywords that actually matter (or else why would they be researching them) and you're really countering with "common sense" and opinion is all you need? I dare you to ask any SEO at all in the world whose side they'd choose in this situation.

              SEO is a game of data, opinions don't matter. I can literally prove you wrong with a graph right now. I'm not arguing that you can't rank a site with a small amount of content, of course you can. But not all keywords are created equal. Try ranking for anything actually worth ranking for with no content and it simply won't happen.

              This has nothing to do with keyword stuffing or density or any of that. Remember that little Panda thing? It was entirely about content. And you mean to tell me I have 1.5 million data points that are just...not relevant compared to your common sense? Come on man, stop spreading disinformation, it's what ruins the SEO community.
              Really?

              This ranks #1 in Google organic SERPs for the keyword cheap auto insurance, the content text count is 317 words. The rest of the ranked page is anchor-text & random <h> tag text. Someone should tell that #1 ranked site/page their doing it wrong.

              Prove me wrong, with your data graph.
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              • Profile picture of the author dchuk
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Really?

                This ranks #1 in Google organic SERPs for the keyword cheap auto insurance, the content text count is 317 words. The rest of the ranked page is anchor-text & random <h> tag text. Someone should tell that #1 ranked site/page their doing it wrong.

                Prove me wrong, with your data graph.
                alright, clearly I must be wrong. All you need to prove any fact in SEO is a single example, and obviously given your post count you are always 300x more correct than I am so I'll just go ahead and let you continue to live in your dream world.

                In the meantime, I'm gonna go back to being a professional SEO who analyzes data in the aggregate and makes informed decisions based on actual analysis and research. I'll just be sure to not share any of that data that literally no one else in the world has with you because you've already got it all figured out.

                I mean, if someone approached me with 150,000 examples of something, I'd always still lean towards that outlier example because the internet isn't that big and it's really hard to find an example for any possible thing.

                Extra fun stuff: http://www.mypokerbasics.com/ ranks #1 for "how to play poker" with a content length of over 1500 words. So....yeah, according to the made up science of your world, that now proves my point again. Want to keep this tango going? All those little graphs I have leave me well equipped to prove you wrong over and over and over
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

                  alright, clearly I must be wrong. All you need to prove any fact in SEO is a single example, and obviously given your post count you are always 300x more correct than I am so I'll just go ahead and let you continue to live in your dream world.

                  In the meantime, I'm gonna go back to being a professional SEO who analyzes data in the aggregate and makes informed decisions based on actual analysis and research. I'll just be sure to not share any of that data that literally no one else in the world has with you because you've already got it all figured out.

                  I mean, if someone approached me with 150,000 examples of something, I'd always still lean towards that outlier example because the internet isn't that big and it's really hard to find an example for any possible thing.

                  Extra fun stuff: Play Poker - How to Play Poker in 2012 - My Poker Basics ranks #1 for "how to play poker" with a content length of over 1500 words. So....yeah, according to the made up science of your world, that now proves my point again. Want to keep this tango going? All those little graphs I have leave me well equipped to prove you wrong over and over and over
                  Like I said before, you & the other guy above are the only two on this thread with the shallow forum post count comments. Nobody cares about your post count numbers, let it go, lol.

                  I already proved your 1,000 word content (or whatever exact number over 500 words) theory is wrong.

                  The amount of text on a page doesn't rank a page.

                  Your only confusing new IMers.
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                  • Profile picture of the author windjc
                    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                    Like I said before, you & the other guy above are the only two on this thread with the shallow forum post count comments. Nobody cares about your post count numbers, let it go, lol.

                    I already proved your 1,000 word content (or whatever exact number over 500 words) theory is wrong.

                    The amount of text on a page doesn't rank a page.

                    Your only confusing new IMers.
                    You are creating a strawman argument. Dchuk didn't say content alone ranks a page. But what he IS saying, which is obvious to the rest of us, is that content is a VERY important factor. And if you are interested in out ranking competitors, having more quality LSI content on each page of your site is a good - very good - place to start. More and better content, more and better links, more and better link juice, more and better relevant domain names, etc. etc.

                    Content is still king. After panda, more than ever.
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                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                      You are creating a strawman argument. Dchuk didn't say content alone ranks a page. But what he IS saying, which is obvious to the rest of us, is that content is a VERY important factor. And if you are interested in out ranking competitors, having more quality LSI content on each page of your site is a good - very good - place to start. More and better content, more and better links, more and better link juice, more and better relevant domain names, etc. etc.

                      Content is still king. After panda, more than ever.
                      Content is weak without internal/external links.

                      I never said that content isn't important, considering the traffic needs something to look at, I thought that would have been a given, my bad. I used the low text counts as an example that a page can still be ranked, which is still true (already proven).

                      The idea that 1,000 words of text is better than 500 words of text on a single page is ludicrous.

                      Good luck getting any sales on 5,000 word page, they'll (traffic) fall asleep before they reach for their credit card.
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                    • Profile picture of the author tomygumilar
                      [QUOTE=windjc;6043957]You are creating a strawman argument. Dchuk didn't say content alone ranks a page. But what he IS saying, which is obvious to the rest of us, is that content is a VERY important factor. And if you are interested in out ranking competitors, having more quality LSI content on each page of your site is a good - very good - place to start. More and better content, more and better links, more and better link juice, more and better relevant domain names, etc. etc.

                      Content is still king. After panda, more than ever.[/QUOTE

                      What about "a picture" which conveys a certain "keywords" which one is more effective for google: the picture or the content?

                      Thanks
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                  • Profile picture of the author dchuk
                    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                    Like I said before, you & the other guy above are the only two on this thread with the shallow forum post count comments. Nobody cares about your post count numbers, let it go, lol.

                    I already proved your 1,000 word content (or whatever exact number over 500 words) theory is wrong.

                    The amount of text on a page doesn't rank a page.

                    Your only confusing new IMers.
                    When did I say that it had to be a specific length? I just pointed out that statistically, there are more pages ranking #1 with content longer than what you recommend. So statistically, you should follow the trends of the data rather than your anecdotal evidence.

                    If all the car dealerships are selling more orange cars than your green cars, would you really keep selling the green ones because there was that one you sold that one time way back to that one dude? No, you'd be a smart business person and do what the trends indicates is working.

                    I can't fathom how you think going against data pulled from analyzed SERPs and URLs is something to ignore. Please explain how you think it makes sense to dismiss hundreds of thousands of real SERPs and the data that accompanies them.

                    Have you ever run a large scale SEO data analysis campaign? Have you ever aggregated the data of millions of ranking URLs to try and draw correlations from the data? Where exactly are your qualifications for saying I'm (and my data) are wrong? I put it all out on the table, you can get an account for my product this second if you want to see what I can do as an SEO and a coder. Where are your credentials here? Where is your data?

                    Your opinion isn't a qualification. If I'm arguing based on data, you have to come back with contradictory data.
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              • Profile picture of the author kaedus
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Really?

                This ranks #1 in Google organic SERPs for the keyword cheap auto insurance, the content text count is 317 words. The rest of the ranked page is anchor-text & random <h> tag text. Someone should tell that #1 ranked site/page their doing it wrong.

                Prove me wrong, with your data graph.
                And this site is ranking for 'buy viagra' and has over 3,000 words of content on the ranking page:
                Buy Viagra | Generic Viagra| Quality Generic Drugs at Online Pharmacy - MedExpressRx.com

                Therefore, by your logic of pulling random examples that disprove one argument, you are wrong. We can go back and forth all day and pull one-off examples that disprove whatever point you are trying to make. There are always exceptions to the rule.

                I think the point you are missing is that with the data serpIQ is offering to share, you can see general patterns on how things rank, not the outliers. I would rather do what 90% of the #1 ranking sites are doing instead of doing what the 10% of sites that might be ranking number one are doing that no one else is doing.

                Aggregate data is much more powerful than one-off examples. It's the same reason that whenever there is a large algo change, people get together and say "These are the types of links I was building, the velocity I was building, anchor text percentages, etc" and they share information with each to try and figure out why their sites either dropped or jumped in rank. That is aggregate data and because we don't have access to Google's algorithm, it's the best way to tell what works.

                Just because people aren't as active as you on here doesn't mean that they don't know how to do SEO. It probably means they just spend more of their time actually ranking sites.
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                • Profile picture of the author windjc
                  LOL @ the idea that because one #1 site has 317 words of content, that this means content doesn't really matter.

                  You have got to be kidding me, right?

                  ...Right?

                  All I know is that Dchuk has created an incredible system for culling though massive serp data, and when he says the average #1 site has over 1200 words of content, that means something to people that actually make money in SEO.

                  Not to mention the fact that 85%+ of all searches are random long tail. And last time, I checked, getting long tail had something do to with c o n t e n t.

                  But that's ok. Don't join the party. The rest of us will just pay too much for all those unnecessary words on our sites that just get in the way of getting traffic.
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                  • Profile picture of the author yukon
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                    LOL @ the idea that because one #1 site has 317 words of content, that this means content doesn't really matter.

                    You have got to be kidding me, right?

                    ...Right?

                    All I know is that Dchuk has created an incredible system for culling though massive serp data, and when he says the average #1 site has over 1200 words of content, that means something to people that actually make money in SEO.

                    Not to mention the fact that 85%+ of all searches are random long tail. And last time, I checked, getting long tail had something do to with c o n t e n t.

                    But that's ok. Don't join the party. The rest of us will just pay too much for all those unnecessary words on our sites that just get in the way of getting traffic.
                    Seriously, don't be duped by a promotional ($$) forum comment. :rolleyes:
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                    • Profile picture of the author windjc
                      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                      Seriously, don't be duped by a promotional ($$) forum comment. :rolleyes:
                      Really? Really?

                      Let me tell you about Dchuk's "promotional" comment. His tool was the first one I used to analyze a niche 6 months ago. I took the information regarding content and links and age authority of the top sites in my niche. 2 weeks later I started building that site. 5 1/2 months later I sold that site for over a $150k profit. From scratch.

                      And you are telling me not to be "duped"?

                      Maybe you would like to explain to me a little better so we can all understand.
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                      • Profile picture of the author yukon
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                        Really? Really?

                        Let me tell you about Dchuk's "promotional" comment. His tool was the first one I used to analyze a niche 6 months ago. I took the information regarding content and links and age authority of the top sites in my niche. 2 weeks later I started building that site. 5 1/2 months later I sold that site for over a $150k profit. From scratch.

                        And you are telling me not to be "duped"?

                        Maybe you would like to explain to me a little better so we can all understand.
                        Maybe you can explain why you created your windjc forum profile today (4-14-2012) & 100% of your comments are in this single forum thread.

                        I think your creating multiple profiles just to BS others into following the other profiles advice/theory/comments.

                        Based on what I see you doing here on the forum, I say your $150K claim is BS.
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                        • Profile picture of the author windjc
                          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                          Maybe you can explain why you created your windjc profile on this forum & 100% of your comments are in this single forum thread.

                          I think your creating multiple profiles just to BS others into following the other profiles advice/theory/comments.

                          Based on what I see you doing here on the forum, I say your $150K claim is BS.
                          Really? Go read all my threads with the same "windjc" handle on W ickedfire. I havent created an account on WarriorForum because in the 3 1/2 I've read it, I haven't seen many discussions worth a crap, quite honestly.

                          And what is the "multiple profiles" I created? A very successful colleague of mine sent me a link to this thread with your ridiculous dismissal of Dchuk and quite frankly I took exception to it.

                          OF COURSE you don't believe that I sold a site 10 days ago for a 150K profit. Because you can't even wrap your mind around the idea that 1000 words of quality content is weighed heavier in the serps than 500 words of content.


                          And P.S. Oh By The Way, who is concerned about forum post counts now?

                          And APOLOGIES to the OP, because your question is a very important one. 1000 words of content, as far as a ranking factor in the serps, if LSI keyword rich and relevant and well written, is BETTER than 500 words absolutely.
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                          • Profile picture of the author yukon
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                            Really? Go read all my threads with the same "windjc" handle on **********. I havent created an account on WarriorForum because in the 3 1/2 I've read it, I haven't seen many discussions worth a crap, quite honestly.

                            And what is the "multiple profiles" I created? A very successful colleague of mine sent me a link to this thread with your ridiculous dismissal of Dchuk and quite frankly I took exception to it.

                            OF COURSE you don't believe that I sold a site 10 days ago for a 150K profit. Because you can't even wrap your mind around the idea that 1000 words of quality content is weighed heavier in the serps than 500 words of content.
                            I don't believe anything you post.

                            You say you've read this forum for 3.5 years & never found it worthy of creating a profile because the entire site is not worth a crap, what a load of BS!

                            At least try & make it sound realistic.

                            Nobody reads a forum for 3.5 years If that forum is crap (impossible). :rolleyes:
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                            • Profile picture of the author windjc
                              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                              I don't believe anything you post.

                              You say you've read this forum for 3.5 years & never found it worthy of creating a profile because the entire site is not worth a crap, what a load of BS!

                              At least try & make it sound realistic.

                              Nobody reads a forum for 3.5 years If that forum is crap (impossible). :rolleyes:
                              Wow. You just keep looking sillier and sillier. If anyone here wants to go to W ickedfire and look at my post history and PM me to verify anything I am saying, please feel free. Look at my join date there - 2008.

                              I don't mean to hurt your feelings - because unlike my comments about Content which are FACT - my comments about WarriorForum are simply opinion. But, yes, I have known about WarriorForum since 2008 and have come by occasionally from time to time. But the most successful IMers I know, both in my days as an affiliate marketer and in SEO with eccommerce and adsense, to a man do not post much or at all here nor do they have much respect for this forum.

                              Again, that doesn't mean that this forum sucks or doesn't have value. It is only my opinion as to why I haven't even bothered to create a profile here.
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                              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                                Wow. You just keep looking sillier and sillier. If anyone here wants to go to W ickedfire and look at my post history and PM me to verify anything I am saying, please feel free. Look at my join date there - 2008.

                                I don't mean to hurt your feelings - because unlike my comments about Content which are FACT - my comments about WarriorForum are simply opinion. But, yes, I have known about WarriorForum since 2008 and have come by occasionally from time to time. But the most successful IMers I know, both in my days as an affiliate marketer and in SEO with eccommerce and adsense, to a man do not post much or at all here nor do they have much respect for this forum.

                                Again, that doesn't mean that this forum sucks or doesn't have value. It is only my opinion as to why I haven't even bothered to create a profile here.
                                Trust me, your not hurting my feelings, actually the 3.5 year comment made me smile.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
                            Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                            Really? Go read all my threads with the same "windjc" handle on W ickedfire. I havent created an account on WarriorForum because in the 3 1/2 I've read it, I haven't seen many discussions worth a crap, quite honestly.

                            And what is the "multiple profiles" I created? A very successful colleague of mine sent me a link to this thread with your ridiculous dismissal of Dchuk and quite frankly I took exception to it.

                            OF COURSE you don't believe that I sold a site 10 days ago for a 150K profit. Because you can't even wrap your mind around the idea that 1000 words of quality content is weighed heavier in the serps than 500 words of content.


                            And P.S. Oh By The Way, who is concerned about forum post counts now?

                            And APOLOGIES to the OP, because your question is a very important one. 1000 words of content, as far as a ranking factor in the serps, if LSI keyword rich and relevant and well written, is BETTER than 500 words absolutely.
                            2 things if I may sir.

                            1. Your use of the word strawman is without the scope of your reference. You may wish to consider researching a position prior to espousal.

                            2. Please tell me why you would continue to come back to a forum for 31/2 years that you considered to be worthless crap?


                            I seldom get interested in peoples baloney posts but the psychology of yours intrigues me.

                            Do tell.....

                            Patrick
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                            • Profile picture of the author yukon
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

                              2 things if I may sir.

                              1. Your use of the word strawman is without the scope of your reference. You may wish to consider researching a position prior to espousal.

                              2. Please tell me why you would continue to come back to a forum for 31/2 years that you considered to be worthless crap?


                              I seldom get interested in peoples baloney posts but the psychology of yours intrigues me.

                              Do tell.....

                              Patrick
                              Well at least I wasn't the only one who thought spending 3.5 years on a crappy site was a load, lol.

                              Nobody would do that.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
                            Originally Posted by windjc View Post


                            OF COURSE you don't believe that I sold a site 10 days ago for a 150K profit. Because you can't even wrap your mind around the idea that 1000 words of quality content is weighed heavier in the serps than 500 words of content.


                            And P.S. Oh By The Way, who is concerned about forum post counts now?

                            And APOLOGIES to the OP, because your question is a very important one. 1000 words of content, as far as a ranking factor in the serps, if LSI keyword rich and relevant and well written, is BETTER than 500 words absolutely.
                            I understand quite well your theory. And I won't dispute your payday. How could I, what knowledge do I have of it.

                            However, I do wish to challenge your notion that 1,000 words is better than 500 words. Because if that were true then 2,000 words would be twice as good as 1,000. And 10,000 words would be 5 times more valuable than 2,000.

                            This is simply not true. I won't discuss how many sites, but let's say I have a few sites that outrank authority sites with good relevancy and over 1,000 words with 550 words of content.

                            This is not the exception, it is quite normal for me to do so.

                            Your comments sound good, but that is NOT what I see in the serps.

                            Thank you, Patrick
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                        • Profile picture of the author dchuk
                          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                          Maybe you can explain why you created your windjc forum profile today (4-14-2012) & 100% of your comments are in this single forum thread.

                          I think your creating multiple profiles just to BS others into following the other profiles advice/theory/comments.

                          Based on what I see you doing here on the forum, I say your $150K claim is BS.
                          let's do a group skype call right now to prove that him and I are not the same person.
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                          • Profile picture of the author yukon
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by dchuk View Post

                            let's do a group skype call right now to prove that him and I are not the same person.
                            I don't do skype, but thanks for the offer.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
                        My findings are really simple.

                        1. For the web length is not nearly as important as relevancy, decorations, tags, density, out bound kW link etc..

                        However, if you're writing web content and the guy in the #1 spot has 500 words you may find beating him with a 100 word blurb challenging.

                        When writing articles
                        1. For article directory acceptance stay over 500 words and below 600 words.

                        2. For reader click through stay as close as possible to just over 500 words and use humor when possible and avoid big solid blocks of text, make it super readable.
                        Make your author box appear to be the conclusion of the article.

                        3. If you're writing for syndication write 1,200 words. The only directory to even bother with putting it into is Ezine.
                        You are better of getting gigs to write for large web blogs and ezines and develop relationships.

                        If you think your going to put your syndication article in directories and get picked up a ton you may wish to reconsider your strategy.

                        Patrick
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                      • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
                        I personally think that we need to stick to the shorter articles. In todays media world, people do not like to read long articles, they want you to get to the point fast.
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                        • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
                          oh i forgot to add that if you are publishing articles to your website, that maybe once in awhile add a long 100 word article. this will help change up your site and make it not so cookie cutter.
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                          • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
                            Readers won't notice an article's word count if the writing is good. More length can help uncover long tail keywords, but you should focus on whether or not you're giving the reader a satisfying amount of information.

                            The best piece on post length I've found is this: Bloggers: This Is How Long Your Posts Should Be

                            It's not using as many data points (just a few of the top sites in several categories), but it does give a sense of which lengths work best for each category.
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                        • Profile picture of the author kaedus
                          Originally Posted by SupplementTalk View Post

                          I personally think that we need to stick to the shorter articles. In todays media world, people do not like to read long articles, they want you to get to the point fast.
                          I agree that short content is a better idea, but once again I think it's dependent on the niche.

                          There are also things you can do in order to break up the long content to keep it engaging. I recently wrote a post that was over 2,000 words and in the first three days had over 800 visits, with a good number of shares on Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, etc. It really depends on the topic and what the user would be looking for.

                          Some of the reviews I have done have been fairly long because they have in-depth analysis of why x is better than y. Using bulleted lists and short paragraphs, broken up with pictures and even videos sometimes can really make the content easy for people to digest.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Andrian
                        Article length is not a great issue. you must need to post quality content. 400 to 500 words are enough to rank in Google. An a TIP for you: In 500 words article your key word must repeat 3 times not more than this. this is called Key word density and its a pert of On page SEO.
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by kaedus View Post

                  And this site is ranking for 'buy viagra' and has over 3,000 words of content on the ranking page:
                  Buy Viagra | Generic Viagra| Quality Generic Drugs at Online Pharmacy - MedExpressRx.com

                  Therefore, by your logic of pulling random examples that disprove one argument, you are wrong. We can go back and forth all day and pull one-off examples that disprove whatever point you are trying to make. There are always exceptions to the rule.

                  I think the point you are missing is that with the data serpIQ is offering to share, you can see general patterns on how things rank, not the outliers. I would rather do what 90% of the #1 ranking sites are doing instead of doing what the 10% of sites that might be ranking number one are doing that no one else is doing.

                  Aggregate data is much more powerful than one-off examples. It's the same reason that whenever there is a large algo change, people get together and say "These are the types of links I was building, the velocity I was building, anchor text percentages, etc" and they share information with each to try and figure out why their sites either dropped or jumped in rank. That is aggregate data and because we don't have access to Google's algorithm, it's the best way to tell what works.

                  Just because people aren't as active as you on here doesn't mean that they don't know how to do SEO. It probably means they just spend more of their time actually ranking sites.
                  LMAO!

                  I could care less how many post anyone on this forum or any other forum on the net has, both you & dchuk are the only two who have mentioned post counts, so obviously you both are having shallow thoughts.

                  Your way off If you think that 0.00000000001% data represents the internet as a whole.

                  I've already proven that dchuk is wrong saying a page needs more text than 500 words. That took me like 20 seconds to find in the SERPs with a random keyword.

                  Do I need to prove the Earth is round? :rolleyes:
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                  • Profile picture of the author Shadowflux
                    I write for a lot of clients.

                    The majority of the orders I receive are for 500 words. I sometimes get some orders for 700 words and rarely for 1000.

                    If I were to suggest a length I would say 500 for two reasons:

                    1. 500 word articles are long enough to cover a certain topic without the need for any fluff or filler.

                    2. 500 word articles are much more readable for real people. I think people are more likely to read the entirety of a 500 word article than a 1000 word article.

                    Having said that, however, I think "Featured Posts" can stand to be a bit longer. Articles dealing with very technical things or articles that are meant to be instructional (like tutorials etc) can stand to be longer as well.

                    I hope that helps!
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              • Profile picture of the author windjc
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Really?

                This ranks #1 in Google organic SERPs for the keyword cheap auto insurance, the content text count is 317 words. The rest of the ranked page is anchor-text & random <h> tag text. Someone should tell that #1 ranked site/page their doing it wrong.

                Prove me wrong, with your data graph.

                What? The #1 organic search site is cheapcarinsurance dot net, a website whose index page has 614 words of content, more than any other site above the fold. Is this your argument?

                I mean your argument is ridiculous to begin with, but at least if you are going to find an "exception" to the rules of content, then find an exception.
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by windjc View Post

                  What? The #1 organic search site is cheapcarinsurance dot net, a website whose index page has 614 words of content, more than any other site above the fold. Is this your argument?

                  I mean your argument is ridiculous to begin with, but at least if you are going to find an "exception" to the rules of content, then find an exception.
                  Lol, so now the new theory is 614 words is the magic SEO number to get a page ranked at #1 on page #1 in the SERPs?

                  Classic!
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  • Profile picture of the author satrap
    I personally as long as you get the message out and give the user the information you promised in your title, it won't matter how long your article is.

    Now if you do have a... Say 1000 words article, I would go with what yukon was suggesting. From an SEo perspective it would make more sense to create two pages that support each other on a highly related term.
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    • Profile picture of the author getaloadathisguy
      Originally Posted by satrap View Post

      From an SEo perspective it would make more sense to create two pages that support each other on a highly related term.
      Okay, coloration as causation aside, this is an agreeable quote about agreement.
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  • Profile picture of the author radivoj
    For the home page I always have about 1200-1500 word content but for the post pages about 500-600 word content for example you are targeting kw "acne treatment" you will put about 1200-1500 word's content for the home page as well optimized then you will create about 10 pages of post page content : what are acne, acne treatment for teens, natural acne treatment tips, How to treat acne, Can Exercise Clear Up Acne?, How to get rid of pimples, How you can prevent breakouts....and so on, but you can also optimized post page targeting long tail keyword's but if you are optimizing post page for long tail keyword for better results I would recommend at least 1K word content instead 500-600...That's how I do and always have good results...
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  • Profile picture of the author socialbookmark
    I think there is not any special rules for number of words for writing articles. I have seen some articles with 350 words which are ranking well and some others are 800 words and rank well too. Ranking depends on many factors and article length is one of them. For example it depends on the website you publish your article to. If you publish your article in an authority site, it probably ranks in top results of Google whether its 350, 500 or 1,000 words.
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    • Profile picture of the author getaloadathisguy
      Originally Posted by socialbookmark View Post

      I think there is not any special rules for number of words for writing articles. I have seen some articles with 350 words which are ranking well and some others are 800 words and rank well too. Ranking depends on many factors and article length is one of them. For example it depends on the website you publish your article to. If you publish your article in an authority site, it probably ranks in top results of Google whether its 350, 500 or 1,000 words.
      Not sure if I can trust a guy who can't spell "revenue".
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      • Profile picture of the author socialbookmark
        Originally Posted by getaloadathisguy View Post

        Not sure if I can trust a guy who can't spell "revenue".
        Thanks a lot for your notification. It was a fatal typing error
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  • Profile picture of the author karamarius
    In my own understanding, the longer the better.. Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author kaedus
    I think that this discussion has degraded past the original point.

    I believe the original point was not that there is one exact number that makes you rank, or that if you have 10,000 words of content then you are better off. I think the point being made by the data that dchuk is presenting is that in general, for most SERPs, the higher ranking sites have larger amounts of content.

    Does this mean you have to have above 500 words of content to rank? No. I don't think any of us with any experience believe that this is true. We all have been doing SEO for a while and we all know better.

    As someone that runs a content writing service that pushes $15k+ in content a month, I constantly recommend to clients that they get content of a sufficient length to cover the topic. No more, no less. Sometimes this means a 400 word article, sometimes this is 2,500+ words.

    One thing I will note is that the longer the content, the more longtails you will begin to rank for, and that's never a bad thing in my opinion as they usually convert better than the short tail anyway. YMMV.

    Also, yukon, I don't know why you took issue with the data in the first place, but I would recommend you at least check out serpIQ, look at the forums, and when they release the data, take a look at it. You might find something you like. Or you might not. Worth looking into either way.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by kaedus View Post

      I think that this discussion has degraded past the original point.

      I believe the original point was not that there is one exact number that makes you rank, or that if you have 10,000 words of content then you are better off. I think the point being made by the data that dchuk is presenting is that in general, for most SERPs, the higher ranking sites have larger amounts of content.

      Does this mean you have to have above 500 words of content to rank? No. I don't think any of us with any experience believe that this is true. We all have been doing SEO for a while and we all know better.

      As someone that runs a content writing service that pushes $15k+ in content a month, I constantly recommend to clients that they get content of a sufficient length to cover the topic. No more, no less. Sometimes this means a 400 word article, sometimes this is 2,500+ words.

      One thing I will note is that the longer the content, the more longtails you will begin to rank for, and that's never a bad thing in my opinion as they usually convert better than the short tail anyway. YMMV.

      Also, yukon, I don't know why you took issue with the data in the first place, but I would recommend you at least check out serpIQ, look at the forums, and when they release the data, take a look at it. You might find something you like. Or you might not. Worth looking into either way.
      The only reason is, I disagree that 1,000 words is any better than say 500 words, or any other number. A few of these guys are basically saying that the more text on a page the better you will rank, which is just wrong in the real world.

      No data will prove that 1,000 words on a single page is better than 500 (example) words.

      I'm all for content being on a ranked page, but content alone will get nothing in the SERPs, it's how you promote the content with related internal/external links that will get a page ranked, not the number of words on a page.

      I'm not knocking serpIQ, I don't even know what they do, but If they are promoting that the key to ranking pages is thousands of words on a page, well, I doubt that's for me, I know better.
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      • Profile picture of the author windjc
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post


        No data will prove that 1,000 words on a single page is better than 500 (example) words.
        No, you are 100% incorrect in this opinion. Nothing personal, but that's an alarmingly shocking opinion from someone who professes so much knowledge of SEO.

        All things being equal, 1000 words of LSI content will produce more long tail ranking variations than 500 of LSI content. Its not that hard to understand the simple and straight forward reasons why.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by windjc View Post

          No, you are 100% incorrect in this opinion. Nothing personal, but that's an alarmingly shocking opinion from someone who professes so much knowledge of SEO.

          All things being equal, 1000 words of LSI content will produce more long tail ranking variations than 500 of LSI content. Its not that hard to understand the simple and straight forward reasons why.
          I already proved it once, how many times do we need to revisit that?

          Your missing the BIG picture here.

          You could break that single 1,000 word page into 2-3 pages of the exact same content & have double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword which most likely would be the largest traffic keyword that your targeting.

          Think smarter (no offense intended) about what you can do with the exact same amount of text/content & stretch that content further with very little work & is still user friendly.

          Not only would 2-3 pages of the 1,000 (example) word content possibly get you double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword with good internal linking, but you will also have 2-3 times the opportunity to make a sale on whatever product your promoting.

          You can still pick up the exact same LSI traffic with 2-3 pages that you would get with a single page, If both had the exact same content (mine spread over 2-3 pages). My way gives you the added advantage of possibly ranking 2-3 pages for a single root keyword, the LSI keywords would rank the same (my way or your way).

          A single page of text will never get double/triple SERP listings per individual keyword, it's not going to happen.

          Nobody here can seriously say they would rather rank a single page at position #1 in the SERPs, instead of ranking positions #1, #2, & #3 in the SERPs per single keyword with the exact same amount of words.
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          • Profile picture of the author windjc
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            I already proved it once, how many times do we need to revisit that?

            Your missing the BIG picture here.

            You could break that single 1,000 word page into 2-3 pages of the exact same content & have double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword which most likely would be the largest traffic keyword that your targeting.

            Think smarter (no offense intended) about what you can do with the exact same amount of text/content & stretch that content further with very little work & is still user friendly.

            Not only would 2-3 pages of the 1,000 (example) word content possibly get you double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword with good internal linking, but you will also have 2-3 times the opportunity to make a sale on whatever product your promoting.

            You can still pick up the exact same LSI traffic with 2-3 pages that you would get with a single page, If both had the exact same content (mine spread over 2-3 pages). My way gives you the added advantage of possibly ranking 2-3 pages for a single root keyword, the LSI keywords would rank the same (my way or your way).

            A single page of text will never get double/triple SERP listings per individual keyword, it's not going to happen.

            Nobody here can seriously say they would rather rank a single page at position #1 in the SERPs, instead of ranking positions #1, #2, & #3 in the SERPs per single keyword with the exact same amount of words.
            Ok. I would love to see an example of your theory. Just 1 Serp example of a site that has 3 separate pages ranking for a main keyword (not a long tail), that also has got some great long tail rankings as well, all with about 300-400 words (1000/3)

            Your theory sounds awesome. Although your theory relies on having lots of content - over 3 optimized pages instead of one, but a lot of content, none the less.

            Please show an example, though. It doesn't have to be one of your sites, (as I am sure you have dozens of sites that would show examples but don't want to "out" any of them). And I know you can't "out" your clients, right? But nonetheless, I'm sure there is at least one example somewhere you can share to back up YOUR theory?
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by windjc View Post

              Ok. I would love to see an example of your theory. Just 1 Serp example of a site that has 3 separate pages ranking for a main keyword (not a long tail), that also has got some great long tail rankings as well, all with about 300-400 words (1000/3)

              Your theory sounds awesome. Although your theory relies on having lots of content - over 3 optimized pages instead of one, but a lot of content, none the less.

              Please show an example, though. It doesn't have to be one of your sites, (as I am sure you have dozens of sites that would show examples but don't want to "out" any of them). And I know you can't "out" your clients, right? But nonetheless, I'm sure there is at least one example somewhere you can share to back up YOUR theory?
              Double/triple SERP listings per individual keyword is not a theory it's a fact.

              I'm not posting my sites & not posting any other sites because I already know it would be useless in showing you proof, just like the last link didn't convince you that a page can be ranked with few words per page.

              I have nothing to sell anyone here that's IM related so, really I don't care If anyone listens or not, I will tell you this, being close minded won't make SEO any easier.

              I've got 3 sites in the download niche that are my proof, that's all I need to convince me that double/triple SERPs are indeed possible with very little text per page.

              If you need proof, do your own testing it's not complicated, or just shrug it off & carry on with a single 1k word page ranked per root keyword.

              We've all had our pissing match in this thread, but all that aside, I'm serious this stuff works & I'm not being sarcastic when I say test it for yourself.
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          • Profile picture of the author Grindstone
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            I already proved it once, how many times do we need to revisit that?

            Your missing the BIG picture here.

            You could break that single 1,000 word page into 2-3 pages of the exact same content & have double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword which most likely would be the largest traffic keyword that your targeting.

            Think smarter (no offense intended) about what you can do with the exact same amount of text/content & stretch that content further with very little work & is still user friendly.

            Not only would 2-3 pages of the 1,000 (example) word content possibly get you double/triple SERP listings for the root keyword with good internal linking, but you will also have 2-3 times the opportunity to make a sale on whatever product your promoting.

            You can still pick up the exact same LSI traffic with 2-3 pages that you would get with a single page, If both had the exact same content (mine spread over 2-3 pages). My way gives you the added advantage of possibly ranking 2-3 pages for a single root keyword, the LSI keywords would rank the same (my way or your way).

            A single page of text will never get double/triple SERP listings per individual keyword, it's not going to happen.

            Nobody here can seriously say they would rather rank a single page at position #1 in the SERPs, instead of ranking positions #1, #2, & #3 in the SERPs per single keyword with the exact same amount of words.
            The elephant in the room that your post ignores is that for any terms worth significant money (I'm talking stuff like buy weight loss pills or buy satellite tv, not the higher volume short tails that don't feature implied buying intent, just so you don't counter with that straw man position, even those short tails pay great too if you build converting sites), you're going to need a significant link building investment for each page you hope to rank top ten.

            You're also going to need an authority site with significant age and overall back link profile for google to treat multiple inner pages as the most relevant results deserving of being frontpaged (not even the 1,2,3 in your example) in these types of niches.

            For easy stuff like "overhyped worthless pdf file of the week review", I'd agree with your position. For hard keywords worth thousands of dollars per day, day in and day out, I'll take one longer post covering all aspects of the target keyword (+ plural) and a slew of LSI longtails as well, then consolidate my multi variate linkbuilding efforts into that url. Just what works best from my experiences, YMMV.

            I don't think there's a wrong or a right answer, every site is different, every SERP is different, but ignoring the volume of data we accumulated at serpIQ because it doesn't fit with your current world view is rather short sighted, IMO.

            Also, I know the site windjc sold because I did some SEO consulting on it with him and I'm rather jealous of how quickly he turned around the ROI on that project. Makes me feel like an amateur.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Grindstone View Post

              The elephant in the room that your post ignores is that for any terms worth significant money (I'm talking stuff like buy weight loss pills or buy satellite tv, not the higher volume short tails that don't feature implied buying intent, just so you don't counter with that straw man position, even those short tails pay great too if you build converting sites), you're going to need a significant link building investment for each page you hope to rank top ten.

              You're also going to need an authority site with significant age and overall back link profile for google to treat multiple inner pages as the most relevant results deserving of being frontpaged (not even the 1,2,3 in your example) in these types of niches.

              For easy stuff like "overhyped worthless pdf file of the week review", I'd agree with your position. For hard keywords worth thousands of dollars per day, day in and day out, I'll take one longer post covering all aspects of the target keyword (+ plural) and a slew of LSI longtails as well, then consolidate my multi variate linkbuilding efforts into that url. Just what works best from my experiences, YMMV.

              I don't think there's a wrong or a right answer, every site is different, every SERP is different, but ignoring the volume of data we accumulated at serpIQ because it doesn't fit with your current world view is rather short sighted, IMO.

              Also, I know the site windjc sold because I did some SEO consulting on it with him and I'm rather jealous of how quickly he turned around the ROI on that project. Makes me feel like an amateur.


              The issue is the comments saying the text has to be above 500 words of content in order to rank a page, which again isn't true.

              Anyone that can't create authority on a keyword isn't even beginning to try to do SEO, so yes, they'll need to try/learn to create authority on the site. Some crappy 2 page MFA site isn't trying & will just make SEO depend on off-page links which is more work than anyone needs to do. Off page links are important but having to depend on them for 100% of the SEO isn't a smart move IMO.

              Age of the site isn't out of reach, sure you'll need all the pages/links indexed which is easy. It's not like you need a 2 year old site to create authority for an average IMer keyword, a few months maybe, but that all depends on the keywords competition. The average IMer isn't trying to rank keywords like auto insurance.

              Feel free to post the data results, that's what open forums are for. Still, I stand by what I've already said about the amount of text/content on a page.
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      • Profile picture of the author dchuk
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post


        I'm not knocking serpIQ, I don't even know what they do, but If they are promoting that the key to ranking pages is thousands of words on a page, well, I doubt that's for me, I know better.
        why don't you sign up for a free account then and try it? then you'll realize we're not a fly by night bull**** WSO and actually have a leg to stand on in this argument. I guarantee if that you do SEO professionally, serpIQ will be useful to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author windjc
      Originally Posted by kaedus View Post

      I think that this discussion has degraded past the original point.

      I believe the original point was not that there is one exact number that makes you rank, or that if you have 10,000 words of content then you are better off. I think the point being made by the data that dchuk is presenting is that in general, for most SERPs, the higher ranking sites have larger amounts of content.

      Does this mean you have to have above 500 words of content to rank? No. I don't think any of us with any experience believe that this is true. We all have been doing SEO for a while and we all know better.

      As someone that runs a content writing service that pushes $15k+ in content a month, I constantly recommend to clients that they get content of a sufficient length to cover the topic. No more, no less. Sometimes this means a 400 word article, sometimes this is 2,500+ words.

      One thing I will note is that the longer the content, the more longtails you will begin to rank for, and that's never a bad thing in my opinion as they usually convert better than the short tail anyway. YMMV.

      Also, yukon, I don't know why you took issue with the data in the first place, but I would recommend you at least check out serpIQ, look at the forums, and when they release the data, take a look at it. You might find something you like. Or you might not. Worth looking into either way.
      Yep, Keadus pretty much nailed this on the head. Content can be hard, and finding good people to write it, or writing it yourself, can be a challenge. I think, for that reason, a lot of people just focus on links.

      But its pretty amazing what can start to happen with longtail if you beat or match your competition with links while having more content.

      So many IMers center their research and time and effort around 1 keyword or a small subset - like 5 or 10. But stability is getting traffic from 1000s of keywords a day. And, from my experience, that requires hundreds of thousands of words of content (no Yukon, not all on your homepage )

      Of course, if its an ecommerce site or an affiliate marketing product site things have to be tailored for conversions, etc. But there are so many ways to integrate content into a site and the search engines love it.

      Personally, relative to its importance, content gets discussed a lot less than linkbuilding. Which, imo, creates much less competition for some of us.
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  • Profile picture of the author patco
    Of course 1000 is better, but it would be harder for you to write so many 1,000+ words each time you want to post on article directories or just to add unique content in your website
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    400 - 500 word articles used to cut it but now you should writing at least 700 words per new post

    that is if your talking about content for your blog

    i usually vary my articles for my sites between 700 - 1200

    for product reviews though you should be doing them at least 1500 words

    paul
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

      400 - 500 word articles used to cut it but now you should writing at least 700 words per new post

      that is if your talking about content for your blog

      i usually vary my articles for my sites between 700 - 1200

      for product reviews though you should be doing them at least 1500 words

      paul
      Way to go guys, this was exactly what I was pointing out earlier.

      Just like the guys that fell for keyword density/stuffing BS, let the flood of "What's the exact number of words per page that I need?" questions start flooding into the SEO forum.

      Maybe when the official number hits 100K words per page everyone will stop & ask themeselves "What the heck are we doing this for?". :rolleyes:

      This is getting silly.
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      • Profile picture of the author kaedus
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Way to go guys, this was exactly what I was pointing out earlier.

        Just like the guys that fell for keyword density/stuffing BS, let the flood of "What's the exact number of words per page that I need?" questions start flooding into the SEO forum.

        Maybe when the official number hits 100K words per page everyone will stop & ask themeselves "What the heck are we doing this for?". :rolleyes:

        This is getting silly.
        Are you ****ing retarded? Where the hell did I say the exact number is xxxx words? Perhaps the post where I said "it depends on the niche" and where I said "you should write as much as covers the topic in full". Somehow you want to blame this on the fact to more often than not, the number one result is longer? Now you are just trolling. No other explanation.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by kaedus View Post

          Are you ****ing retarded? Where the hell did I say the exact number is xxxx words? Perhaps the post where I said "it depends on the niche" and where I said "you should write as much as covers the topic in full". Somehow you want to blame this on the fact to more often than not, the number one result is longer? Now you are just trolling. No other explanation.
          Looks like your the one that's ****ing retarded, I didn't quote you.

          Try reading...

          Thanks for participating.
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      • Profile picture of the author kaedus
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Way to go guys, this was exactly what I was pointing out earlier.
        This wasn't referring to me? Way to go guys? You must have been insinuating everyone except me? Right...

        I also find it funny that you object to this thread so strongly when there are hundreds of others threads full of blatant misinformation.
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  • Profile picture of the author gtk29
    I think the amount of text should be long enough to supply material for contextual ads. This is specially true for ad networks like Kontera and Infolinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author JKflipflop
    I do not know why the article length is being associated with so many parameters. Good article content, with a decent length in general (I do not like to keep it too close to the 500 mark - around 600 is good) can work wonders for your site. The problem is that in the process of wording the articles, a lot of time in keeping a check on the number of words, the quality gets lost. That is what most marketers need to try and avoid.
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  • Profile picture of the author mahacool
    The larger the article, the better it is provided that they are quality content. But anything more than 600 words should be OK otherwise readers get bored. But nowadays rankings depend on other things such as usability, length of visitor stay etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vic Shinoda
    800 words with 3%-5% of keywords
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  • Profile picture of the author Seo Mall
    Content is good for Google when it's unique) It doesn't matter 500 or 1000 words it contains. But much amount of words can let you put your keywords in text more easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author Naxie
    This thread is fun, thanks for the Monday entertainment.

    Does Google profile the length of content found on a website? I'm wondering if they actually make account of all content being around xxx words and whether having a good spread of content length would have any effect at all?
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  • Profile picture of the author pangolin123
    Article length doesn't really matter. I have 500 words articles, and 1000 words articles. Both can rank equally well. What matters the most is good on-page optimzation and off-page optimization. Also, the LSI words are important and lastly the way you structure your site with the keywords and LSI keywords. With a good backlinks package, you can easily rank for any keywords.
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