SEO what? content is king!

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i noticed recently A LOT of debate on SEO vs content on this forum....

i've always been a believer in content.. and do no work at all on SEO...

did a test last week to see how far content SOLELY can push a website up the serps, registered a new domain.. did no SEO (off or on page) and only wrote 1 article per day..

1 week into the test.. here are the results..

competition in google in "quotes" is ~30,000.

btw.. rankerizer shows 30 backlinks but i think its a bug.. it has 0 backlinks.. verified in majestic SEO annd google
#content #king #seo
  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
    btw.. not trying to prove anything here.. all sites are different and 10000000000000000 variables will affect your ranking.. just sharing what happened to my site..

    now go post some content on yours!
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  • Profile picture of the author bigcat1967
    No doubt content does work - but always believed that backlinking should be involved to a degree as well as social networking.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      How about posting how many EXACT monthly searches those keywords get too?
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      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        How about posting how many EXACT monthly searches those keywords get too?
        global EXACT search 1,300
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

          global EXACT search 1,300
          That's about what I thought.
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          • Profile picture of the author todayismonday20
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            • Profile picture of the author aygabtu
              Bull! Content is NOT king. I have a year old site that has amazing Google analytic stats for usage, with over 40 minute per day usage, a 7% bounce rate, 20+ pageviews per user per day. It averages over 90% conversion rate on adwords.

              Guess where it ranks on the two biggest keywords??????

              8th! I know it is way better than the crap above it, yet google puts it at 8th! Perhaps because my click through rate on adsense is pathetic. I wouldn't put it past google to put crappy sites higher that earn them more money.

              But no, content is not king.
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              Check top 300 Google SERP results free. WhatsMySERP.com tracks and graphs changes for multiple domains/keywords/regions. Also includes advanced keyword density tool.

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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              No offense but such posts are highly misleading and just lead to people making faulty assumptions. Sure you can rank for terms that no one cares about....well because no one much is competing for those terms.

              Proves nothing says nothing and back up no point about content being king.

              P.S> you need to dig deeper and reevaluate your competition in quotes metric. search count has no direct correlation to competition. It means nothing more about competition than counting the amount of times the word 'whale' appears in the novel MobyDick
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              • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                No offense but such posts are highly misleading and just lead to people making faulty assumptions. Sure you can rank for terms that no one cares about....well because no one much is competing for those terms.

                Proves nothing says nothing and back up no point about content being king.

                P.S> you need to dig deeper and reevaluate your competition in quotes metric. search count has no direct correlation to competition. It means nothing more about competition than counting the amount of times the word 'whale' appears in the novel MobyDick
                search results show targeted meta tags. it shows how many sites are competiting for that keyword. how is that not a true reflection of competition?

                of course i can see your jedgement is biased based on your sig. :p
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                • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                  search results show targeted meta tags. it shows how many sites are competiting for that keyword. how is that not a true reflection of competition?
                  You are mistaken here. It does not show how many people are truly competing for a keyword. This is a long standing myth.

                  And my point was not to say anything against good content. It was to point out the fact that the best content in the world will not rank for anything competitive without SEO.

                  I just think it is foolish to rely on one and ignore the other.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                  search results show targeted meta tags.

                  Sorry buy you need to learn abit more before you debate me on this. Meta tags are not what Google shows - its meta descriptions.

                  it shows how many sites are competiting for that keyword. how is that not a true reflection of competition?=
                  :rolleyes: I've blown this up with a sig and without one on so many ocassions its not funny. Here go ahead and tell me there are 2.9 million people competing for this

                  https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1280&bih=856

                  Why people get so confused about this is beyond me. When you run a search you are QUERYING A DATABASE. A query will return whatever is in the database. The count tells you how many times the phrase occurs in the index. Thats all. Not who is competing for it. SO if a guy says my dog is stupid on a crawled page it will show up here

                  https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...6&ix=seb&ion=1


                  but does that mean that because he mentions the term stupid dog he is COMPETING for it? Of course not. Argue all you want . there are not nearly a million people competing for this term

                  https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1280&bih=856



                  You and the sellers that have duped people into believing that result count is an indication of competition are dead wrong.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Sorry buy you need to learn abit more before you debate me on this. Meta tags are not what Google shows - its meta descriptions.



                    :rolleyes: I've blown this up with a sig and without one on so many ocassions its not funny. Here go ahead and tell my there are 2.9 million people competing for this

                    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1280&bih=856

                    Why people get so confused about this is beyond me. When you run a search you are QUERYING A DATABASE. A query will return whatever is in the database. The count tells you how many times the phrase occurs in the index. SO if a guy says my dog is stupid on a crawled page it will show up here

                    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...6&ix=seb&ion=1


                    but does that mean that because he mentions the term stupid dog he is COMPETING for it? Of course not. Argue all you want . there are not nearly a million people competing for this term

                    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1280&bih=856



                    You and the sellers that have duped people into believing that result count is an indication of competition are dead wrong.
                    what sellers? i am not a seller. lol. i don't sell/buy anything on this forum.


                    let me put this in simple terms for you......................

                    every single page in the "database" as you put it IS YOUR COMPETITION. simple as that.

                    that's why it's called SERP. SEARCH ENGINE RANKING POSITION.

                    if there is an new additional page above you, means your ranking = -1
                    and vice versa.

                    so if you join a race with 30 people.......... and 5 more people join the race.. bringing the total competition to 35.. is that NOT increased competition???????

                    they might not be directly COMPETING for that keyword.. but if google puts their page there..... they ARE COMPETITION.

                    even a 10 yr old can understand this.. a so-called SEO guru like yourself should know and understand this simple logic??

                    1 real life example.. a few of my sites outrank many sites just because of my PR, domain age, backlinks, etc.. but i am not targetting the keyword at all. but because of other factors, i manage to outrank them even though i am not competing for the keywords nor are they in my meta tag. so would i be considered "competition" ??? lol. i would think so...............

                    this is beyond SEO my friend.. it's basic logic
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                      every single page in the "database" as you put it IS YOUR COMPETITION. simple as that.

                      that's why it's called SERP. SEARCH ENGINE RANKING POSITION.
                      utter nonsense. I have sites that i mention terms for that I am NEVER targeting and they show up in the search results. If I mention on my personal blog that I liked Whitney houston's music it will show up in the search results and I not be competing for it.

                      You should buy a dictionary and find out what the word competing means before you call anyone a ten year old. Even my five year old would understand that the mere appearance of a phrase on my site that gets indexed does not signify I am competing for it. I can say my kid like Barney and it get indexed but according to you I am now competing for the term. LOL

                      so if you join a race with 30 people.......... and 5 more people join the race.. bringing the total competition to 35.. is that NOT increased competition???????
                      thats the whole point and it goes right over your head though you try and call other people dumb. Merely mentioning a term online is not running a race and yet that alone - just mentioning a term - can get it indexed and counted in the serps. To use your analogy its like claiming that everyone in a stadium was competing because they are in the stadium. Sorry only the guys on the field TRYING to win the race are competing. When you buy the dictionary you will see thats what the word means. The guy with the running shoes in the stands is not competing just because he has on running shoes. someone merely mentioning a term that shows up in the search engines does not make him/her or their site competition. They are just mentioning a term and couldn't care less about trying to rank for it..

                      they might not be directly COMPETING for that keyword.. but if google puts their page there..... they ARE COMPETITION.
                      There where? LOL. You are completely lost in this argument - thats placement not search count. Not the issue. Never said the guy on the front page was not your competition but when you rely on search phrase count that includes everybody no matter where they place and thats why its a total crock.

                      Pure logic and no straw. Try again.
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                      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        utter nonsense. I have sites that i mention terms for that I am NEVER targeting and they show up in the search results. If I mention on my personal blog that I liked Whitney houston's music it will show up in the search results and I not be competing for it.

                        You should buy a dictionary and find out what the word competing means before you call anyone a ten year old. Even my five year old would understand that the mere appearance of a phrase on my site that gets indexed does not signify I am competing for it. I can say my kid like Barney and it get indexed but according to you I am now competing for the term. LOL



                        thats the whole point and it goes right over your head though you try and call other people dumb. Merely mentioning a term online is not running a race and yet that alone - just mentioning a term - can get it indexed and counted in the serps. To use your analogy its like claiming that everyone in a stadium was competing because they are in the stadium. Sorry only the guys on the field TRYING to win the race are competing. When you buy the dictionary you will see thats what the word means. The guy with the running shoes in the stands is not competing just because he has on running shoes. someone merely mentioning a term that shows up in the search engines does not make him/her or their site competition. They are just mentioning a term and couldn't care less about trying to rank for it..



                        There where? LOL. You are completely lost in this argument - thats placement not search count. Not the issue. Never said the guy on the front page was not your competition but when you rely on search phrase count that includes everybody no matter where they place and thats why its a total crock.

                        Pure logic and no straw. Try again.
                        ok mike.. ask your 5 yr old to explain it to you.. maybe you'll understand it then. obviously you don't understand it when it's coming from me.... since your kid is as smart as you say, i'm sure he/she will understand me..

                        if you're targetting "cheap shoes" and buy an EMD, use meta tags, put videos of "cheap shoes", and are in google rank #4 for "cheap shoes".........

                        and my site is about buying cheap horseshoe.. i don't target your KW, don't do anything, but i am ranked #3 for the term "cheap shoes"..

                        am i your competition? i probably stole 10% of traffic from you although i am not competing for your KW. enough said. i try to help people understand simple logic but i'm starting to give up on you mikey.





                        p.s. if you want to have a site saying you're an SEO expert, teaching people how to get good ranking/high PR, you might want to ACTUALLY have a PR on your site, instead of a big fat 0. just sayin
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                          if you're targetting "cheap shoes" and buy an EMD, use meta tags, put videos of "cheap shoes", and are in google rank #4 for "cheap shoes".........
                          the funny part of this is watching you call me dumb and then jump from search count to placement as if you don't get there is a difference. First page PLACEMENT is different from search count :rolleyes:.......and Yes my five year old would understand being first as being different from everyone that runs/ran or is sitting in the seats with runnign shoes. So again my issue is not with first page placement as your competition but your erroneous concept that EVERYONE that shows up in the search results is a competitor. Try and stay on point and if you still can't see the difference then what can I say? Set you up with skype with my five year old or a ten year old you compared me to?

                          p.s. if you want to have a site saying you're an SEO expert, teaching people how to get good ranking/high PR, you might want to ACTUALLY have a PR on your site, instead of a big fat 0. just sayin
                          LOL. Thats one reason why I would be a SEO expert. No intelligent SEO would ever connect any of his main sites to Warrior forums by his sig. He would create a site just for WF so that none of his techniques or assets are exposed to a set of people who love to examine and reverse engineer. Dig deeper. You won't find any links to the site either except from here. I should get some clients to look this thread over and they would have a good laugh about me not knowing SEO because I don't expose my techniques and assets to posters here. Funny stuff.
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                          • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            the funny part of this is watching you call me dumb and then jump from search count to placement as if you don't get there is a difference. First page PLACEMENT is different from search count :rolleyes:.......and Yes my five year old would understand being first as being different from everyone that runs/ran or is sitting in the seats with runnign shoes. So again my issue is not with first page placement as your competition but your erroneous concept that EVERYONE that shows up in the search results is a competitor. Try and stay on point and if you still can't see the difference then what can I say? Set you up with skype with my five year old or a ten year old you compared me to?
                            i've always been on point. trying to make it simple for you to understand but you just don't get it.

                            don't need skype.. you can ask your kid to read this thread and explain to you thereafter. much easier.

                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            LOL. Thats one reason why I would be a SEO expert. No intelligent SEO would ever connect any of his main sites to Warrior forums by his sig. He would create a site just for WF so that none of his techniques or assets are exposed to a set of people who love to examine and reverse engineer. Dig deeper. You won't find any links to the site either except from here. I should get some clients to look this thread over and they would have a good laugh about me not knowing SEO because I don't expose my techniques and assets to posters here. Funny stuff.
                            WOW thanks! i must be an expert too! since my sites are not linked here! thanks for calling me an expert!!!

                            and you create the site for WF for the purpose of...? selling lower end services while hiding your secret weapons? tsk tsk tsk.. shame on you...:rolleyes:
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                            • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                              lol i noticed your sig says... "The World's only Full ongoing, no limit, no question unanswered Mentorship on Building powerful SEO Networks"........"

                              no questions unanswered??? can i PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE pay you the $1 and can you PLEASEEE teach me your secret weapons?????????????????????????????

                              or are you out to scam fellow WF members here since you said you keep your seo methods secret????????????????

                              oh gosh.. either way you're a liar.

                              tsk tsk tsk............................................... .
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                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post


                                oh gosh.. either way you're a liar.

                                tsk tsk tsk............................................... .
                                Bob I've entertained you long enough. You keep to the name calling and you will be reported to the mods. I have lied about nothing. I don't reveal my assets or techniques to free loaders so there are no links to my sites exposed here and I therefore do not attempt to rank it for the same reason. Sorry if you are disappointed. Thats specifically done as almost every regular here does the same to any asset they wish to protect. In my sig I promise and deliver teaching on everything involved in building a network not all of SEO. You should learn to read before claiming lies but either way like I said I will not entertain the name calling.

                                Cheers
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                                • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                  Bob I've entertained you long enough. You keep to the name calling and you will be reported to the mods. I have lied about nothing. I don't reveal my assets or techniques to free loaders so there are no links to my sites exposed here and I therefore do not attempt to rank it for the same reason. Sorry if you are disappointed. Thats specifically done as almost every regular here does the same to any asset they wish to protect. In my sig I promise and deliver teaching on everything involved in building a network not all of SEO. You should learn to read before claiming lies but either way like I said I will not entertain the name calling.

                                  Cheers
                                  No unanswered questions = all questions answered. Simple English to me.

                                  But in this very thread you said your secrets will not be revealed to WF for the fear people will steal your methods?

                                  So which is it? If I purchase it right now, what is it going to be? Make up your mind bro.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                                    No unanswered questions = all questions answered. Simple English to me.

                                    But in this very thread you said your secrets will not be revealed to WF for the fear people will steal your methods?

                                    So which is it? If I purchase it right now, what is it going to be? Make up your mind bro.
                                    Are you waiting for the Middle school bell to ring or something? Seriously thats kids stuff. Again read - "no question unanswered Mentorship on Building powerful SEO Networks " . So for paying customers I answer all questions in regard to building networks. There is no lie and it does not require that I connect a site I do SEo for to WF for free.

                                    If you can't get simple English then I would wonder about the quality of your content to rank for anything worth it anyway.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                  of course i can see your jedgement is biased based on your sig. :p
                  LOL. Why would I be biased. Seriously how many people reading this are going to give up link building because of great content. They will use both. All they have to do is look at 99% of the sites that rank in google and they have links. That rises to 100% for even moderate competitive terms.

                  Your sole testimonial to your "hobby" writing site and the power of content by itself is totally lost in the millions of testimonials (including from Google itself) that links are necessary for most sites to rank. My sig is in no danger from your posts.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    LOL. Why would I be biased. Seriously how many people reading this are going to give up link building because of great content. They will use both. All they have to do is look at 99% of the sites that rank in google and they have links. That rises to 100% for even moderate competitive terms.

                    Your sole testimonial to your "hobby" writing site and the power of content by itself is totally lost in the millions of testimonials (including from Google itself) that links are necessary for most sites to rank. My sig is in no danger from your posts.
                    of course.. not just my thread.. but the thousands of threads on WF showing people's website getting banned/deindex due to buying backlinks will.

                    i don't do SEO for the simple reason i dont want to have to worry about additional issues like that.....

                    btw, i'm not asking people to give up SEO don't get me wrong. the point i am trying to drive across is CONTENT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

                    that's all.

                    i've said it above and i'll say it again.......

                    sure you can do SEO/backlinking/etc... but you have to pay month after month to maintain your ranking.. and worry/pray/stress every night that panda or a ban is coming after you.........

                    with good content and no blackh4t SEO.. no worries.. i sleep good at night..

                    and pls don't tell me you don't do blackh4t seo.. any form of un-natural link building IS blackhat SEO.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                      of course.. not just my thread.. but the thousands of threads on WF showing people's website getting banned/deindex due to buying backlinks will.

                      i don't do SEO for the simple reason i dont want to have to worry about additional issues like that.....
                      So hold up - buying backlinks is the only way to do SEO? LOL. Who knew? Funny thread.


                      btw, i'm not asking people to give up SEO don't get me wrong. the point i am trying to drive across is CONTENT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
                      You can drive a point home by making accurate statements just as well. I as A SEO happen to agree with that message but not yours that links are not needed.


                      with good content and no blackh4t SEO.. no worries.. i sleep good at night..
                      heh heh. Seriously what point is that? I sleep fine myself thanks for asking because the way I do SEo I have no worries friend. I don't use public rental SEO networks and don't blast sites. I'm fine you merely assume to know too much about how others do SEo (and their nocturnal habits) thats all.

                      and pls don't tell me you don't do blackh4t seo.. any form of un-natural link building IS blackhat SEO.
                      Well from all the errors I am reading you don't expect me to allow you to define what is "black" for me do you? From where I sit you haven't earned that privilege. Thats your own opinion. You really are new to SEO though because your definition really doesn't even begin to scratch all the ways links are built in modern SEO many of which wouldn't count as totally natural.

                      To hear Google tell it all links should come about with no input from the link getter but thats false on so many levels. The guy/gal that gets written up in a tech blog usually makes contact with writers first . Public relations of companies are routinely working link opportunities in a not so natural way (theres a whole lot of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours). Shucks even Google I have seen with my own eyes link to their partner sites from time to time followed links to boot. it is considered VERY white hat even by Google to contact owners of sites and ask them to link to you - terrible unnatural. Try telling Espn they can't link to thier ABC sister sites with followed links. On and on.

                      But hey If your hobby site getting a few hundred visits discounts all those of us that rank for real terms and what professional SEOs do - then hey I am fine with it. Whatever delusions that make you sleep at night are fine by me cause you don't touch my world with any of your SEO "exact quote" search results ideas.

                      As Spock would say - Live long and prosper.
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                      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        So hold up - buying backlinks is the only way to do SEO? LOL. Who knew? Funny thread.
                        just an example, applies to everything else


                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        You can drive a point home by making accurate statements just as well. I as A SEO happen to agree with that message but not yours that links are not needed.
                        i didn't say links are not needed. i said content is king. i never said anything about SEO in my OP. don't make assumptions.


                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        heh heh. Seriously what point is that? I sleep fine myself thanks for asking because the way I do SEo I have no worries friend. I don't use public rental SEO networks and don't blast sites. I'm fine you merely assume to know too much about how others do SEo (and their nocturnal habits) thats all.
                        as long as you do SEO, you'd better worry. when panda finds you.. hohoho. good luck my friend..

                        there are only so many ways to do SEO my friend.. if you had a breakthrough that was 100% safe.. you'd be a millionaire, you'd be famous, you're website won't be a PR0.. i don't see you anywhere in the SERP for your keywords..

                        and you claim to be able to teach people about SEO in your website and even CHARGING for your service? lol. i pity the fool that buys from you.

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Well from all the errors I am reading you don't expect me to allow you to define what is "black" for me do you? From where I sit you haven't earned that privilege. Thats your own opinion. You really are new to SEO though because your definition really doesn't even begin to scratch all the ways links are built in modern SEO many of which wouldn't count as totally natural.
                        black/grey, any link building, etc done to manipulate the SERPS is considered wrong in google's eyes. which part of that simple sentence don't you understand??

                        if you sell an SEO service, unless it's on page, it is wrong

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        To hear Google tell it all links should come about with no input from the link getter but thats false on so many levels. The guy/gal that gets written up in a tech blog usually makes contact with writers first . Public relations of companies are routinely working link opportunities in a not so natural way (theres a whole lot of you scratch my back and I will scratch yours). Shucks even Google I have seen with my own eyes link to their partner sites from time to time followed links to boot. it is considered VERY white hat even by Google to contact owners of sites and ask them to link to you - terrible unnatural. Try telling Espn they can't link to thier ABC sister sites with followed links. On and on.
                        that's why google is a BILLION dollar company. because their algorithm is the best out there that can identify between legit linking between partners, companies, and those blackhat spammers... and they provide good and relevant information to the consumers..

                        and btw, you might want to recheck your info.. lol. don't post facts which aren't correct. don't make yourself look stupid. i can't remember the site exactly but it was big news when google tried to help one of their sites go up the SERPS.. it got penalized by google themselves again and disappeared from SERPs for awhile.. they came out with a public apology about that matter as well and said they won't try to mess with serps again.

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        But hey If your hobby site getting a few hundred visits discounts all those of us that rank for real terms and what professional SEOs do - then hey I am fine with it. Whatever delusions that make you sleep at night are fine by me cause you don't touch my world with any of your SEO "exact quote" search results ideas.

                        As Spock would say - Live long and prosper.
                        apparently you haven't been reading this thread. this is a case study, i did it for fun, but hey of course i can't complain about the extra 200$ every month for a case study i did for fun right?

                        and if my 5-figure income from IM is not "professional" enough for you then well, maybe you are the better man. LOL. :rolleyes:

                        yes yes, i definitely can't touch your world my friend. because you have no world to be in at all. SEO company that is not even in SERPs for your keywords.. what will your potential customers think?!?!?!? oh wait. there aren't any customers for you to worry about. lol.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post


                          if you sell an SEO service, unless it's on page, it is wrong
                          ROFL. HAHHHAHAHAHHAHA. thats why I love WF if for nothing else but the comedy. SO Google has stated that all SEO link building services are wrong? Obviously some poor soul that doesn't know a thing about Seo or the many seo consultants that Google even has semniars with.


                          there that can identify between legit linking between partners, companies, and those blackhat spammers... and they provide good and relevant information to the consumers..
                          Wheres the rimshot because seriously you don't know the countless sites that still rank to this day on bought links do you?

                          and btw, you might want to recheck your info.. lol. don't post facts which aren't correct.
                          I haven't you have and the company you were searching for is JC Penney. they were not deindexed and they are back well and fine. They were not utilizing high quality links either when they got dinged not even using a solid network. Get your own facts straight. SEO is alive and well for many such sites and they still hire teams to do link building and SEO.


                          and if my 5-figure income from IM is not "professional" enough for you then well, maybe you are the better man.
                          Is there anyone on WF that does not claim to be making at least five figures? For all any of us know you could be making 200 pennies on your experiment (more in line with your traffic). Prove your points in the search engines with real sites and real results tht people can look at. this claim to be making this or that business is old, tired and inconsequential on a board where any 12 year old can sign up and claim to be making $20,000 a month much less. No one should show their own sites mind you but thats why you can show your principles by looking at Google results. If it works all you need to do is show some sites killing it in google. there are like what - a billion search results to look at? Whats the problem?
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                          • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                            [quote=Mike Anthony;5663661]
                            Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post


                            if you sell an SEO service, unless it's on page, it is wrong

                            ROFL. HAHHHAHAHAHHAHA. thats why I love WF if for nothing else but the comedy. SO Google has stated that all SEO link building services are wrong? Obviously some poor soul that doesn't know a thing about Seo or the many seo consultants that Google even has semniars with.




                            Wheres the rimshot because seriously you don't know the countless sites that still rank to this day on bought links do you?



                            I haven't you have and the company you were searching for is JC Penney. they were not deindexed and they are back well and fine. They were not utilizing high quality links either when they got dinged not even using a solid network. Get your own facts straight. SEO is alive and well for many such sites and they still hire teams to do link building and SEO.




                            Is there anyone on WF that does not claim to be making at least five figures? For all any of us know you could be making 200 pennies on your experiment (more in line with your traffic). Prove your points in the search engines with real sites and real results tht people can look at. this claim to be making this or that business is old, tired and inconsequential on a board where any 12 year old can sign up and claim to be making $20,000 a month much less. No one should show their own sites mind you but thats why you can show your principles by looking at Google results. If it works all you need to do is show some sites killing it in google. there are like what - a billion search results to look at? Whats the problem?
                            Google talks about on page seo. Building back links to manipulate SERPS = nono

                            Yes there are still sites ranked using paid seo, but that's what panda is for. doesn't that say something ? A direct updated algo from google to kill all the crappy sites ranked using paid seo? R u really that ignorant?

                            Lol. I said its a google company, not jc penny. Something like google pluS, etc. stop assuming for gods sake. You're wasting my time. Read up before you want to refute an argument.

                            You talk about real experts not showing anything here then you ask me to prove my rankings? Lol.

                            I'll pm you with a picture of my Ferrari or Lamborghini. Any kind of proof you want to show its mine. Good enough proof? Or my private jet or Italian yacht? Your choice kid.

                            Let's see who is really making the money from IM.

                            Just because I act new here doesn't mean I'm new. Hehe. Cheers to u my good friend
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              [quote=bobcarlsjr;5663789]
                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                              Google talks about on page seo. Building back links to manipulate SERPS = nono
                              Uh-huh thats why Seomoz routinely talks about link building and are highly regarded by even Google. Sorry guy you have no clue about anything you are talking about. nada.

                              Yes there are still sites ranked using paid seo, but that's what panda is for. doesn't that say something ?
                              it says you don't know anything about Panda either. Panda cannot discriminate between a bought or natural link as long as they are both editorial links. While calling people dumb you are really making some way off statements that most of the more experienced people here are cracking up over no doubt. Just continuing with the nonsense that content somehow has to be chosen over link building and SEO. they can and SHOULD both work hand in hand. Simple.


                              You talk about real experts not showing anything here then you ask me to prove my rankings?
                              Nope never did. Asked you to show us sites and results that need not be your own that proves your point. There are millions of search results you are not in so it should be easy to find sites ranking all over Google without links and only great content. Whats the problem?

                              Just because I act new here doesn't mean I'm new
                              No but all the talk about Ferrari or Lamborghini pretty much just confirms to all of us more experienced in IM and SEO that you are in fact not making a dime. Typical fake it till you make it talk always gives it away.

                              anyway back to real work for me. Catch more of the comedy later.
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                              • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                                [quote=Mike Anthony;5663872]
                                Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post


                                Uh-huh thats why Seomoz routinely talks about link building and are highly regarded by even Google. Sorry guy you have no clue about anything you are talking about. nada.



                                it says you don't know anything about Panda either. Panda cannot discriminate between a bought or natural link as long as they are both editorial links. While calling people dumb you are really making some way off statements that most of the more experienced people here are cracking up over no doubt. Just continuing with the nonsense that content somehow have to be chosen over link building and SEO. they can and SHOULD both work hand in hand. Simple.




                                Nope never did. Asked you to show us sites and results that need not be your own that proves your point. There are millions of search results you are not in so it should be easy to find sites ranking all over Google without links and only great content. Whats the problem?



                                No but all the talk about Ferrari or Lamborghini pretty much just confirms to all of us more experienced in IM and SEO that you are in fact not making a dime. Typical fake it till you make it talk always gives it away.

                                anyway back to real work for me. Catch more of the comedy later.

                                Lol. Please. Any text u want. I'll write it on a paper and take a couple of pictures for your or come down to Florida I'll bring out for a ride. Beers on me.

                                I don't "fake it" my brother. Sometimes you gotta just man up and admit I am more successful than you. I know it's hard but you made it personal first

                                Don't be afraid of my success. Say please n maybe I will mentor you.

                                Oh and please. Google > semoz. If you build your seo plans on what semoz says instead of google, good luck to you.
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                            • Profile picture of the author IMdude123
                              Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                              Google talks about on page seo. Building back links to manipulate SERPS = nono

                              Yes there are still sites ranked using paid seo, but that's what panda is for. doesn't that say something ? A direct updated algo from google to kill all the crappy sites ranked using paid seo? R u really that ignorant?
                              the Panda update was just to penalize sites with spun and or duplicate content, nothing to do with backlinks!!!

                              just watch this. google likes you getting backlinks to you site!!

                              Is there such a thing as building too many links?
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                  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    LOL. Why would I be biased. Seriously how many people reading this are going to give up link building because of great content. They will use both. All they have to do is look at 99% of the sites that rank in google and they have links. That rises to 100% for even moderate competitive terms.

                    Your sole testimonial to your "hobby" writing site and the power of content by itself is totally lost in the millions of testimonials (including from Google itself) that links are necessary for most sites to rank. My sig is in no danger from your posts.
                    btw.. your website isn't showing properly in firefox.. might want to get that checked out. cheers buddy
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                      btw.. your website isn't showing properly in firefox.. might want to get that checked out. cheers buddy
                      Not seeing an issue except it uses a scroller on the right but thanks anyway.
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                      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Not seeing an issue except it uses a scroller on the right but thanks anyway.
                        the scroller goes on and on and on and on but it is empty, there is no content........... and yes there are 2 scrollers...
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                • Profile picture of the author Cantbedone!
                  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                  search results show targeted meta tags. it shows how many sites are competiting for that keyword. how is that not a true reflection of competition?

                  of course i can see your jedgement is biased based on your sig. :p

                  I would think this would be obvious by now but here goes. It is not a true reflection of your competition because it doesn't matter how MANY competitors you have. It only matters how STRONG the top 10 competitors are.

                  I dont care if there are only 20 competing sites in quotes. If they are all high PR, aged, authority domains and pages with 10's of thousands of solid inbound links, you are not getting in with nothing but content...period.
                  Signature

                  To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.
                  ~ Aristotle

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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

          global EXACT search 1,300
          So in reality that's, about 130 [exact] local search per month?

          I guarantee your not getting traffic from all of Googles search engines [global], so why would you use [global] data?
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  • Profile picture of the author arnold55
    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

    i noticed recently A LOT of debate on SEO vs content on this forum....

    i've always been a believer in content.. and do no work at all on SEO...

    did a test last week to see how far content SOLELY can push a website up the serps, registered a new domain.. did no SEO (off or on page) and only wrote 1 article per day..

    1 week into the test.. here are the results..

    competition in google in "quotes" is ~30,000.

    btw.. rankerizer shows 30 backlinks but i think its a bug.. it has 0 backlinks.. verified in majestic SEO annd google
    well....content is king..i don't know man

    can you do this with content?



    thats just my opion

    mike reynolds
    arnold55
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by arnold55 View Post

      well....content is king..i don't know man

      can you do this with content?

      <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H6AwXUcB-R8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

      <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1LK2JrlKTP4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

      thats just my opion

      mike reynolds
      arnold55
      are you asking how to put content for when you have a video?? you could use tags.. or just put content on the same page as the video?? not sure what you're asking. sorry :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've seen like two or three threads in the last week alone about this subject of content vs SEO, but it's a good one so I guess I won't complain

    My first inclination would be to say that you got lucky with your niche selection, unless you're just deliberately targeting low competition keywords.

    I would be more interested in how much actual TRAFFIC you're getting. Rankings are a way to get traffic, so if you're not getting traffic then it doesn't really matter what your rankings are. Even if you're just getting 10 - 20 uniques a day from those rankings that'd be worth noting.

    Sorry, I don't want/mean to rain on your parade, I really do appreciate the time and effort that went into this case study. I'm hoping that you can offer some traffic stats for us to further help us understand what you've done

    - Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author anku9696
    SEO and content both are equally important...
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by anku9696 View Post

      SEO and content both are equally important...
      Not really.

      I can rank bad content in a competitive serp with SEO. I cannot rank good content in a competitive SERP without SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
        its ranking well for almost 10 kw guys.. 130~140 uniques a day..

        have not put adsense yet but assuming ctr of 5%.. cpc $1.. should net me close to 200 each month.. i'm happy

        n i dont have to worry about maintaining my ranking or paying for seo.. just writing about my hobby
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        • Profile picture of the author Cantbedone!
          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

          its ranking well for almost 10 kw guys.. 130~140 uniques a day..

          have not put adsense yet but assuming ctr of 5%.. cpc $1.. should net me close to 200 each month.. i'm happy

          n i dont have to worry about maintaining my ranking or paying for seo.. just writing about my hobby

          You are making 2 very big assumptions. Go ahead and post up your ads and see what kind of money is ACTUALLY coming in. Post those results and it will make your case stronger.
          Signature

          To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.
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          • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
            Originally Posted by Cantbedone! View Post

            You are making 2 very big assumptions. Go ahead and post up your ads and see what kind of money is ACTUALLY coming in. Post those results and it will make your case stronger.
            It's called business forecasting/budgeting so I Know my expense n ROI

            Googles keyword tool is for the specific use of knowing the CPC.

            Ctr is based on sample size averages.

            Not that hard is it now my friend?

            You mean that's not how you run your business? You dive into it and takes it as it comes??
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            • Profile picture of the author Cantbedone!
              Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

              It's called business forecasting/budgeting so I Know my expense n ROI

              Googles keyword tool is for the specific use of knowing the CPC.

              Ctr is based on sample size averages.

              Not that hard is it now my friend?

              You mean that's not how you run your business? You dive into it and takes it as it comes??
              In that case you should be a fortune teller. Why waste your time here?

              I get lots of clicks that do not reflect what the Adwords tool projects even if you calculate by 40 - 50% which is pretty common. Ctr varies on a lot more than whatever standard ad placement you are using so trying to predict it in a niche that you havent tested yet is a huge assumption.

              Wow, you havent even got any ads up yet and you are already on the way to the bank. Like I said man...fortune telling.. you'll make a killing.


              BTW: If you really think that just having good content will beat competitors who have great SEO and inbound links, I really don't know what to tell ya. It's clear that you have not been doing this for very long.

              Your claims of a 5figure IM income are looking less and less likely. I believe you are a scammer trying to boast yourself up on the forums so you can tout yourself as a successful IM'r and sell WSO's in the near future. It wouldn't be the first time we saw that.

              And no, I dont run my business by tring to make projections or delusional predictions based on the limited info available in the Adwords tool. Are you freakin kidding me? I look for potential and then I TEST, TEST, TEST. Results vary wildly from niche to niche. Another thing that you should already know.

              So again... post your ads and make your money before you tell everyone what works. Until then, you are blowing smoke. Dont you think we've tried the whole "content only" approach? Do you really believe that you are the only one who has? Amazing!
              Signature

              To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Not really.

        I can rank bad content in a competitive serp with SEO. I cannot rank good content in a competitive SERP without SEO.
        but when panda comes along.............. uhoh...................

        saw wat happened to those mfa sites?

        i look at biz long term.. not spamming seo to get to the top but only stay there for awhile.

        do a search on wf.. i guaruntee 10000000000000 threads showing ban/deindex due to SEO.. but not a single one due to good content..

        now my question is... which camp do you want to be in?
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        • Profile picture of the author aygabtu
          That still doesn't change the fact that you can have the best content for your segment, best analytic stats also and still not rank in the top 3.

          But that also begs the question, does google rank sites higher that have high CTR on ads, which makes them more money? The site in question for me has an adsense CTR of WAAAAAAAY below 1%. Almost outrageous to hear you talk about 5%.
          Signature

          Check top 300 Google SERP results free. WhatsMySERP.com tracks and graphs changes for multiple domains/keywords/regions. Also includes advanced keyword density tool.

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          • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
            Originally Posted by aygabtu View Post

            That still doesn't change the fact that you can have the best content for your segment, best analytic stats also and still not rank in the top 3.
            that isn't the purpose/point of this thread :confused:

            Originally Posted by aygabtu View Post

            But that also begs the question, does google rank sites higher that have high CTR on ads, which makes them more money? The site in question for me has an adsense CTR of WAAAAAAAY below 1%. Almost outrageous to hear you talk about 5%.
            higher ranked sites have no effect on CTR. CTR is depending on layout, split testing, etc...

            you should do some testing on your site for your adsense.. plenty of people here get 5-15%.. some even 15% i've seen


            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

            You are mistaken here. It does not show how many people are truly competing for a keyword. This is a long standing myth.
            erm..... unless you're google i don't think you have the right to say it's a myth.. neither do i or anyone else on here for that matter.....

            the debate has been going on about sandbox, blah blah blah, etc for the longest time. the only fact of the matter here is NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE..

            bottom line is it works for me for this case study i am trying to do.. that's all..

            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

            And my point was not to say anything against good content. It was to point out the fact that the best content in the world will not rank for anything competitive without SEO.

            I just think it is foolish to rely on one and ignore the other.
            not true. see 1st post.. i just did it without SEO...

            Originally Posted by yukon

            So in reality that's, about 130 [exact] local search per month?

            I guarantee your not getting traffic from all of Googles search engines [global], so why would you use [global] data?
            :confused::confused::confused: are you plucking numbers from the air???

            1300 global exact, 1200 local exact.

            i didn't say i was using global. someone asked for it and i just gave them global. my mistake to overlook including local in that post as well...

            bottom line is, doesn't matter how many searches, per month.. some niche 1st rank get 40%, some niche 1st rank gets 20% of traffic.. all depends on meta description, title, etc......

            and as i have said above.... it's not just 1 keyword...... unlike many build niche sites and the likes.. i NEVER target 1 or 2 or 3 keywords.. i go for more like 10........

            why limit your market? if anything, the 1 criteria critical to your site's success is demand from the market. without demand = immediate failure
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              So in reality that's, about 130 [exact] local search per month?

              I guarantee your not getting traffic from all of Googles search engines [global], so why would you use [global] data?
              Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

              :confused::confused::confused: are you plucking numbers from the air???

              1300 global exact, 1200 local exact.

              i didn't say i was using global. someone asked for it and i just gave them global. my mistake to overlook including local in that post as well...

              bottom line is, doesn't matter how many searches, per month.. some niche 1st rank get 40%, some niche 1st rank gets 20% of traffic.. all depends on meta description, title, etc......

              and as i have said above.... it's not just 1 keyword...... unlike many build niche sites and the likes.. i NEVER target 1 or 2 or 3 keywords.. i go for more like 10........

              why limit your market? if anything, the 1 criteria critical to your site's success is demand from the market. without demand = immediate failure

              Yes, I was plucking numbers out of the air (lol). A question mark at the end of a sentence indicates a question is being asked. You didn't supply the the local number before I asked the question. I suppose it's possible but I doubt [local] count is that close to the [global] count, we'll have to take your word for it, without knowing the keyword.

              I didn't say anything about SERP position, still, "If you're not first, you're last. - Ricky Bobby".
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              • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Yes, I was plucking numbers out of the air (lol). A question mark at the end of a sentence indicates a question is being asked. You didn't supply the the local number before I asked the question. I suppose it's possible but I doubt [local] count is that close to the [global] count, we'll have to take your word for it, without knowing the keyword.
                err why couldn't it be that close? it's a US-related local term being searched you the US.. you expected something different?? :confused: LOL

                and a more appropriate way to phrase the question is:

                "so what are the exact local searches"?

                not "so 150 exact local searches"?

                assumptions and picking numbers out of thin air is a big nono in anything you do. makes you look like a fool if you get it wrong, as in this case.. lol
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              • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                I didn't say anything about SERP position, still, "If you're not first, you're last. - Ricky Bobby".
                i love ricky bobby but this sentence means crap to IMers..

                ranking 2nd, 3rd or even 10th can make you good money.. you just gotta be smart enough to take it..

                so yukon, you throw away every site that don't make it to #1 rank?
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                  i love ricky bobby but this sentence means crap to IMers..

                  ranking 2nd, 3rd or even 10th can make you good money.. you just gotta be smart enough to take it..

                  so yukon, you throw away every site that don't make it to #1 rank?
                  Lol, I was just messing with you on that Ricky Bobby quote.

                  Serious now, I rank pages not sites, so yes, If my page isn't ranking #1 I'll rework the page/links If I think it will prove worthwhile.
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                  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                    Lol, I was just messing with you on that Ricky Bobby quote.

                    Serious now, I rank pages not sites, so yes, If my page isn't ranking #1 I'll rework the page/links If I think it will prove worthwhile.
                    as do i.. ranking pages is the way to go!

                    in fact i think i might do another case study on that
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            • Profile picture of the author aygabtu
              Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

              higher ranked sites have no effect on CTR. CTR is depending on layout, split testing, etc...

              you should do some testing on your site for your adsense.. plenty of people here get 5-15%.. some even 15% i've seen
              Not always. I have the same layout and ad placement on two different sites. One has huge loyalty, 7% bounce rate, etc and has a pathetic adsense CTR. The other has a 50% bounce rate, about 2 minute time on site, etc and it has about 8 times the adsense CTR.

              It is actually better to target transitional people who won't be spending 40 minutes a day on your site. By the way, the site with the much worse google analytics scores, is actually ranked higher in the keywords I am targeting and they are MORE competitive keywords and the site is much newer!

              Bottom line, better content doesn't get you the #1 spot. It also doesn't get you higher adsense CTR either.
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  • Profile picture of the author HAWTs
    Content is king
    Backlink is God
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    • Profile picture of the author aygabtu
      Originally Posted by HAWTs View Post

      Content is king
      Backlink is God

      Amen!
      Signature

      Check top 300 Google SERP results free. WhatsMySERP.com tracks and graphs changes for multiple domains/keywords/regions. Also includes advanced keyword density tool.

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  • Profile picture of the author pakfashionmag
    I believe content and SEO both play an important role to enhance page rank.
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  • Profile picture of the author bermuda
    What you say and have experienced can be technically accurate but it does not reject the roles played by links. For example, assume some of your contents and newly published articles catch attention of a few bloggers and then they give links to your inner web pages. Such editorial links will be superb from SEO perspective and even a few of them would be enough to push up your web positions to the front page of Google which can be a very great piece of news.

    Upon entering the SEO world, webmasters should be thinking about their net audience, and search engines. Naturally, contents should be written in a way to be liked by net visitors and human readers. Such quality materials can at the same time get awarded with strong one-way links from other sources. In such cases, a combination of good links plus valuable contents will do wonders online. Your case is true but do not forget about building links at the same time.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      bobcarlsjr,

      Perhaps this story can best relate the point that Mike and I are trying to make to you...

      Two guys are on a safari in South Africa far from their vehicle or shelter with no means of protection. All of a sudden they realize that a lioness has crept up behind them unexpectedly. One of them immediately takes off his safari boots and starts to put on some running shoes. The other says "Are you crazy? That's just a waste of time - you'll never outrun a lion."

      The guy replies "I don't have to outrun the lion, I only have to outrun you...."
      In SEO terms, your competition is the top 3. #4 to whatever number of results show up, do not matter at all. If you can beat the top 3, the rest are insignificant.

      On top of that, you can find some pretty ridiculous search terms that have as many as a few million results show up, and it is clear that NOBODY is "competing" for those terms.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

      What you say and have experienced can be technically accurate but it does not reject the roles played by links. For example, assume some of your contents and newly published articles catch attention of a few bloggers and then they give links to your inner web pages. Such editorial links will be superb from SEO perspective and even a few of them would be enough to push up your web positions to the front page of Google which can be a very great piece of news.

      Upon entering the SEO world, webmasters should be thinking about their net audience, and search engines. Naturally, contents should be written in a way to be liked by net visitors and human readers. Such quality materials can at the same time get awarded with strong one-way links from other sources. In such cases, a combination of good links plus valuable contents will do wonders online. Your case is true but do not forget about building links at the same time.
      perfectly put. thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author dburk
    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

    i've always been a believer in content.. and do no work at all on SEO...
    Hi bobcarlsjr,

    I think you, and many others, have the wrong idea about exactly what SEO is. SEO is what you do to content, you cannot do SEO without content. The more SEO'd content, the better your performance will be in SERP.

    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

    did a test last week to see how far content SOLELY can push a website up the serps, registered a new domain.. did no SEO (off or on page) and only wrote 1 article per day..
    First, search engines index individual web documents, not websites.

    Second, search engines are pretty good at figuring out what your content is about without you consciously performing SEO. In other words, creating high quality content with users in mind you naturally create semi to fully optimized content.

    Third, if you were using a blog CMS platform, Wordpress or something similar, it is likely has a certain amount of built in optimization as well as promotional techniques built in to the CMS design.

    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

    1 week into the test.. here are the results..

    competition in google in "quotes" is ~30,000.
    As Mike pointed out estimated pages that may contain part of the words of a query is not your competition. There is never more than 1000 pages liste in SERP and typically most of those are not competing for your targeted keyword. Your true competition is the 10 URLs listed on the first page of SERPs.

    Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

    btw.. rankerizer shows 30 backlinks but i think its a bug.. it has 0 backlinks.. verified in majestic SEO annd google
    There is no backlink tool that will show you all of your backlinks. Backlinks are created by many different methods and are not limited to your own efforts. Internal crosslinks are backlinks too, are you claiming you have not created internal links?, because if you have, you cannot honestly make the claim of "no backlinks".

    Finally, the main point that I'm making is that it shows a fundamental lack of understanding the basic concepts of SEO to frame the question as content verses SEO. There is no SEO without content, and most high quality content is optimized for users, and therefore generally optimized for search engines.

    When it comes to highly competitive keywords, you need more content to rank a page, and for that content to be placed in optimal locations, typically spread across many web pages, and often located on many websites. This type of web promotion is also content creation, hence all SEO is content and there can never be a valid argument for SEO verses content.

    Content is king, and SEO'd content is the king of kings.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Hi bobcarlsjr,

      I think you, and many others, have the wrong idea about exactly what SEO is. SEO is what you do to content, you cannot do SEO without content. The more SEO'd content, the better your performance will be in SERP.
      i don't do anything to content.. i just write what i think about an issue/problem.. i don't do keyword density.. i don't do ANYTHING. no meta tags, no NOTHING. just a blank page with words.. that's all.. using WP..



      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      First, search engines index individual web documents, not websites.
      common knowledge

      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Second, search engines are pretty good at figuring out what your content is about without you consciously performing SEO. In other words, creating high quality content with users in mind you naturally create semi to fully optimized content.
      there is a difference between writing for users and writing for google. i write for users. i don't PURPOSELY do SEO. i just write! that's all!

      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Third, if you were using a blog CMS platform, Wordpress or something similar, it is likely has a certain amount of built in optimization as well as promotional techniques built in to the CMS design.
      not without plugins. only header/title that's all. and that's also for the readers. would you read anything at all without a title? forum/books/etc??



      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      As Mike pointed out estimated pages that may contain part of the words of a query is not your competition. There is never more than 1000 pages liste in SERP and typically most of those are not competing for your targeted keyword. Your true competition is the 10 URLs listed on the first page of SERPs.
      sorry i have to disagree. if you are on page 10, the 1st 9 pages ARE YOUR COMPETITION


      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      There is no backlink tool that will show you all of your backlinks. Backlinks are created by many different methods and are not limited to your own efforts. Internal crosslinks are backlinks too, are you claiming you have not created internal links?, because if you have, you cannot honestly make the claim of "no backlinks".
      there is no referring domain except google. the site is 1 week old. i haven't put the website address ANYWHERE online. where are the backlinks going to come from?

      no internal links other than privacy page, contact us. anyway, internal link from a pr0 domain, i'd think close to 0 link juice.

      so yes, i will boldly make the claim i have NO BACKLINKS


      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Finally, the main point that I'm making is that it shows a fundamental lack of understanding the basic concepts of SEO to frame the question as content verses SEO. There is no SEO without content, and most high quality content is optimized for users, and therefore generally optimized for search engines.
      you totally don't get the point of my thread. i'm saying my content which i am NOT optimizing at all can be ranked. so i don't see why you keep talking about onpage SEO which you clearly are.

      which basic concept of SEO are we not understanding here may i ask? like i told someone above, unless you are google, everything that you or i or anyone else says is B$

      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      When it comes to highly competitive keywords, you need more content to rank a page, and for that content to be placed in optimal locations, typically spread across many web pages, and often located on many websites. This type of web promotion is also content creation, hence all SEO is content and there can never be a valid argument for SEO verses content.

      Content is king, and SEO'd content is the king of kings.
      errrrrrrr......... tell that to all the people above that is saying SEO is better than content.. lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        i don't do anything to content.. i just write what i think about an issue/problem.. i don't do keyword density.. i don't do ANYTHING. no meta tags, no NOTHING. just a blank page with words.. that's all.. using WP..
        Hi bobcarlsjr,

        Let's not pretend.

        You are deliberately choosing words that accurately describe your topic. that is what SEO is, whether you call it by any other name, or even if you are not aware of it, you are optimizing for users therefore search engines recognize it too. That is where search engines, like Google, look for signals of keyword relevance. Try writing something that deliberately leaves out your keywords, for example using a metaphor, or deliberately include you keywords as stylized images for users, and let me know how that works out.

        No modern search engines use meta tags nor keyword density, so those wouldn't help you anyway.




        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        common knowledge
        Yes, however you do make statement as if you were not aware of it, and I pointed this out since this is a public forum and many people do not understand this, perhaps due to the many posts, like yours, that talk about ranking "websites" rather than web pages. I'm just trying to bring some clarity to the readers of this board.


        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        there is a difference between writing for users and writing for google. i write for users. i don't PURPOSELY do SEO. i just write! that's all!

        not without plugins. only header/title that's all. and that's also for the readers. would you read anything at all without a title? forum/books/etc??
        Writing for users is usually the best way to write for Google. Google is so good that you typically do not need to do anything special, just choose words accurately, avoid over generalization and excessive use of metaphors. That is just how good Google is at determining relevance.

        You have been doing SEO, perhaps without realizing it, since you seem to be doing the things that are important to SEO.

        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        sorry i have to disagree. if you are on page 10, the 1st 9 pages ARE YOUR COMPETITION
        I think that is a matter of opinion. If you are trying to get on page 9, and I see no reason why anyone would want to be on page 9, then yes, you could consider those that are on page 9 as your true competition.

        The reality of search marketing is that you are not going to get much traffic, if any, by being listed anywhere other than page #1 of SERP. In my opinion those are the only competitors you should be concerned with, anything else and you are just fooling yourself.




        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        there is no referring domain except google. the site is 1 week old. i haven't put the website address ANYWHERE online. where are the backlinks going to come from?
        Perhaps you are unaware that Wordpress has Ping-o-matic built in. So every time you make a post or update a page it creates what is essentially the equivalent of a nofollow backlink in the eyes of search engines like Google.

        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        no internal links other than privacy page, contact us. anyway, internal link from a pr0 domain, i'd think close to 0 link juice.

        so yes, i will boldly make the claim i have NO BACKLINKS
        Perhaps you are unaware that Wordpress creates permalinks for each new post, automatically adding numerous internal links which, along with the links on the contact and privacy pages, are all internal backlinks that count just as any other backlinks that you create.

        So, you may be unaware of those backlinks, but ignorance doesn't negate reality.


        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        you totally don't get the point of my thread. i'm saying my content which i am NOT optimizing at all can be ranked. so i don't see why you keep talking about onpage SEO which you clearly are.
        I don't totally buy into the notion that you are not optimizing your content, perhaps you are unaware that you are doing it sub-conscientiously. Let's just say you are not fully optimizing, just partially optimizing.

        You also have chosen a platform that automates many of the optimization tasks for you, again it could be that you are unaware, but aware or not, you are still optimizing your content.

        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        which basic concept of SEO are we not understanding here may i ask? like i told someone above, unless you are google, everything that you or i or anyone else says is B$
        Again, that may be your perception, but far from reality. That's a bit like saying since no one, but God, is omniscience, all science is BS. I am happy to have competitors that think just like you do, makes my job a lot easier.

        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        errrrrrrr......... tell that to all the people above that is saying SEO is better than content.. lol.
        That was the point of my post, there cannot be a separation of SEO from content, since SEO is an attribute of content, the attribute does not exist separate from the object of the attribution. SEO is an attribute of your content, and you can't really have absolutely no SEO unless your content contains no words.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    As far as SEO, content is not king. Keywords, internal links, & keyword relevancy, etc... are king (for on-page SEO).

    You can take a page full of gibberish text, SEO the page, build the backlinks & still rank the page in the SERPs. Google can't detect If a sentence makes sense or not. Google knows If a word is relevant to another word, but only becuase those two words are in some database, they still can't recognize a legit sentence. A manual human review would obviously get the gibberish page slapped.

    Google does recoginize the end of a sentence, for example a period at the end of a sentence. I've noticed this in the SERP descriptions, Google sometimes doesn't use the full amount of space in a SERP description & will sometimes shorten the SERP description when they detect a period.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      As far as SEO, content is not king. Keywords, internal links, & keyword relevancy, etc... are king (for on-page SEO).

      You can take a page full of gibberish text, SEO the page, build the backlinks & still rank the page in the SERPs. Google can't detect If a sentence makes sense or not. Google knows If a word is relevant to another word, but only becuase those two words are in some database, they still can't recognize a legit sentence. A manual human review would obviously get the gibberish page slapped.

      Google does recoginize the end of a sentence, for example a period at the end of a sentence. I've noticed this in the SERP descriptions, Google sometimes doesn't use the full amount of space in a SERP description & will sometimes shorten the SERP description when they detect a period.
      yup.. then see me overtake your site when i have proper content on it.

      like i said, look long term my friends. sleep well at night, don't be like mikey.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        yup.. then see me overtake your site when i have proper content on it.

        like i said, look long term my friends. sleep well at night, don't be like mikey.
        Bwahahahaha!

        Judging from the comment you made earlier about competition strength & SERP result counts, I kinda doubt that very much.

        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        search results show targeted meta tags. it shows how many sites are competiting for that keyword. how is that not a true reflection of competition?
        Believe me when I tell you all my sites are long term, my best performing sites are 5+ years old & thousands of hand built pages/content. Your not dealing with some 2 page MFA guy, that bought a $7 WSO.
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        • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Bwahahahaha!

          Judging from the comment you made earlier about competition strength & SERP result counts, I kinda doubt that very much.



          Believe me when I tell you all my sites are long term, my best performing sites are 5+ years old & thousands of hand built pages/content. Your not dealing with some 2 page MFA guy.
          Then u should know content > Seo

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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

            Then u should know content > Seo

            Really?

            Here I go again...

            I have thousands of pages that are download sites (multiple sites), all legal content that I created myself, most pages have 1-image, 1-sentence, 1-download link.

            My content doesn't need 600 words of text to describe what it is. I won't say my niche but think along the lines of .psd photoshop files (again not my niche, so have at it).

            I'm not saying a page full of text is bad or anything, it just depends on the type of content you are trying to deliver to your traffic. My content is inside of zip files, so I have to be a little creative in how I SEO my pages.

            My point here is, on-page content is not king, again the content could be gibberish & keywords, SEO beats the guy that doesn't know that.
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            • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Really?

              Here I go again...

              I have thousands of pages that are download sites (multiple sites), all legal content that I created myself, most pages have 1-image, 1-sentence, 1-download link.

              My content doesn't need 600 words of text to describe what it is. I won't say my niche but think along the lines of .psd photoshop files (again not my niche, so have at it).

              I'm not saying a page full of text is bad or anything, it just depends on the type of content you are trying to deliver to your traffic. My content is inside of zip files, so I have to be a little creative in how I SEO my pages.

              My point here is, on-page content is not king, SEO beats the guy that doesn't know that.
              My mistake. I should have been more specific. TEXT content is king. Is that better? Lol

              I just thought its obvious that for file downloads there won't be text. Lol.

              Oh well. I guess I really do have to spell out everything on here.... :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                My mistake. I should have been more specific. TEXT content is king. Is that better? Lol

                I just thought its obvious that for file downloads there won't be text. Lol.

                Oh well. I guess I really do have to spell out everything on here.... :rolleyes:

                Lol, you just don't get it.

                Oh, well. It wasn't because we didn't try.

                Good luck.
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                • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Lol, you just don't get it.

                  Oh, well. It wasn't because we didn't try.

                  Good luck.
                  I get what you're saying. I just don't agree that's all.

                  Well you just keep making your money, and I'll make mine.

                  I must at least be doing something righ to afford my toys so it's all good
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  Lol, you just don't get it.

                  Oh, well. It wasn't because we didn't try.

                  Good luck.
                  Yuke right you are - its all just zinging right over his head. It was good for lunch hour entertainment though.
                  Signature

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                  • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                    Lol Mikey it's like you teaching bill gates how to run Microsoft. Maybe try being a little more successful then come teach me about seo. I don't see why I should learn from someone less successful. Doesn't make business sense to me. Yukon's alright though, I think he's making about 5k a month. Are you making $5 a month yet?
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                    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                      Oh and man up and back up your talk with some proof. Don't just blabber on and on. Ask your clients to come tell me about how good your services are and maybe I won't despise you as much.

                      As I said before, ANY proof you want of my toys, just let me know. They're sitting in my driveway which is about 10 steps away from me. Shall I get u a picture now?
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                    • Profile picture of the author IMdude123
                      Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                      Lol Mikey it's like you teaching bill gates how to run Microsoft. Maybe try being a little more successful then come teach me about seo. I don't see why I should learn from someone less successful. Doesn't make business sense to me. Yukon's alright though, I think he's making about 5k a month. Are you making $5 a month yet?
                      how do you know hes not more successful then you? he probably is.


                      oh an BTW I made over $1,000,000
                      just because I said it doesn't make it true

                      I'm just curious to how much you do make, can you upload a picture of your tax return? oh wait you can't because you don't pay taxes because your a stubborn child.

                      you will get nowhere in life if you don't listen to people and respect their opinions and views. what makes you think you know more about SEO then anyone else? I've only been doing SEO for less that a year and I bet I know more about SEO then you ever will.
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                      • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                        Originally Posted by IMdude123 View Post

                        how do you know hes not more successful then you? he probably is.


                        oh an BTW I made over $1,000,000
                        just because I said it doesn't make it true

                        I'm just curious to how much you do make, can you upload a picture of your tax return? oh wait you can't because you don't pay taxes because your a stubborn child.

                        you will get nowhere in life if you don't listen to people and respect their opinions and views. what makes you think you know more about SEO then anyone else? I've only been doing SEO for less that a year and I bet I know more about SEO then you ever will.
                        Because IM paid for about 10 million dollars in toys for me.

                        Which the 3 of you combined will never earn in your lives. That's why.

                        Yes yes.. Don't believe me. I'm just talking out of my ass lol.
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                        • Profile picture of the author IMdude123
                          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                          Because IM paid for about 10 million dollars in toys for me.

                          Which the 3 of you combined will never earn in your lives. That's why.

                          Yes yes.. Don't believe me. I'm just talking out of my ass lol.
                          could you please tell me how you made that money or at least show some proof from bank statements, payment sceenshots or just some pictures of your "toys".

                          you don't even know how much I have made online or how much I will make online. just for you information I have ideas that when implemented will make lots and lots of money. I'm talking about at least $10 million.

                          the only thing I will say is that you are a liar and until I see proof picture I will stick to that.

                          if you want you can PM me the proof pictures if you don't want to post them in this thread.
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                          • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
                            Originally Posted by IMdude123 View Post

                            could you please tell me how you made that money or at least show some proof from bank statements, payment sceenshots or just some pictures of your "toys".

                            you don't even know how much I have made online or how much I will make online. just for you information I have ideas that when implemented will make lots and lots of money. I'm talking about at least $10 million.

                            the only thing I will say is that you are a liar and until I see proof picture I will stick to that.

                            if you want you can PM me the proof pictures if you don't want to post them in this thread.
                            Sure. What do u want written to proof it's mine ? I LOVEIMDUDE123?

                            If I do have proof of all my toys are you kids going to publicly apologies for acting like a twat here on WF?

                            And please don't tell me about business idea b$. everyone and their sister has a million dollar idea.

                            I actually implemented and made it happen. 10million in just toys, excluding properties n cash.
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                            • Profile picture of the author IMdude123
                              Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                              Sure. What do u want written to proof it's mine ? I LOVEIMDUDE123?

                              If I do have proof of all my toys are you kids going to publicly apologies for acting like a twat here on WF?

                              And please don't tell me about business idea b$. everyone and their sister has a million dollar idea.

                              I actually implemented and made it happen. 10million in just toys, excluding properties n cash.
                              just write your warrior forum name would be fine.

                              I will apologies for calling you a liar if you have proof.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Cantbedone!
                          Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

                          Because IM paid for about 10 million dollars in toys for me.

                          Which the 3 of you combined will never earn in your lives. That's why.

                          Yes yes.. Don't believe me. I'm just talking out of my ass lol.

                          In over a solid year of reading the sometimes maddening levels of BS spouted in Internet Marketing forums, this is the most ridiculous claim I've seen yet.

                          You're going to have to come up with some amazing evidence if you want to sell that load to this crowd...

                          If you made that kind of money, you would have zero need for this forum and even less time to waste on a keyword that gets 1300 per month unless you are cranking out hundreds of those per day with your super awesome IM business...

                          Give it up dude. Something is waaay off with you.
                          Signature

                          To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.
                          ~ Aristotle

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  • Profile picture of the author cjbmeb14
    Perhaps it is better to do both!
    I really believe content is king but without some SEO a site will not perform well with search engines.
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    EXPLODE your Offline sales!!!! My unique methods of selling are all revealed. I went from writing $5 articles to selling Mobile Websites that convert like CRAZY!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Curry
    PM me your targeted keywords and give me a couple weeks to outrank your terms
    Signature
    "All Achievements, All Earned Riches Have Their Beginning in an Idea"
    Napolean Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by Adam Curry View Post

      PM me your targeted keywords and give me a couple weeks to outrank your terms
      And I would do this because? You might want to help Mikey with his seo company if yo have the free time on hand. It isn't doing too well right down. No where in the SERPS to be found. I think he needs more help.
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    I could rank a 1300 EXACT searches number 1 by sneezing hard

    that is not a good example of content is king, it just makes you look like a newbie
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    Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
    specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

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    • Profile picture of the author bobcarlsjr
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      I could rank a 1300 EXACT searches number 1 by sneezing hard

      that is not a good example of content is king, it just makes you look like a newbie
      Number #1 rank with 0 backlink? If it isn't content what is it ? Lol. R u acting foolish or are you really that dumb?
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      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr View Post

        Number #1 rank with 0 backlink? If it isn't content what is it ? Lol. R u acting foolish or are you really that dumb?
        I see number one ranks all the time with zero backlinks and higher monthly searches than that. You really sound like a fool. 1300 right? are you serious? thats a pathetic number of searches.
        and of course you have no proof of even ranking number one do you? of course not, we have to take your word on it, since nobody reveals their websites. You could also be a huge liar.
        I can come on and say I rank number 1 on a site with 100k monthly searches with no backlinks. Anyone can type anything

        try that on 10,000 and come back and see us
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        Tech article writing .Native English Speaker(with Proof)
        specializing in SmartPhones , Internet security, high tech gadgets, search engines, tech shows, digital cameras.

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  • Profile picture of the author Domainate
    I'm not sure why content and SEO are ever seen as an either/or. They go hand-in-hand to secure rankings. Better content helps get natural links, decrease bounce rate, increase time on site, get return visitors etc which all help rankings, but usually not enough for anything competitive unless you're also doing on and off page SEO. If you're doing the SEO but with crappy content, then even if you get the rankings, you probably won't make much from them and they may not last as well if your crappy content results in high bounce rate and other things Google doesn't like.
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  • Profile picture of the author adarsh2k5
    Well what I thinks is, Content has never been king in the sense that if I drew an analogy.... !
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  • Profile picture of the author 3000
    I guess if your site was highly targeted you can do this.

    I had a site with about 100 pages on it and didn't start ranking high until I did some backlinks on it. I believe the problem with my site was that it wasn't specific to one niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author juanlawry1
    But first you should do strategy for highly targeted.
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  • Profile picture of the author sizzlemediauk
    Bob,

    Content is king and that is true specially after the recent panda and freshness update by search giant most preference will be now given to unique and information based content pages and content based link building that will be by backlinks from articles and blogs, forum (can be considered if you contribute yourself effectively). We mostly follow this process only to rank websites and is proven as ranking we got are unbelievable. Within a month or two we reach to 1st page from not in 100 of the SERPs.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisadan1
    backlinksindexer for quality backlink. thus no need to make a big strategy for this, just go with backlinksindexer
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