$3,000-$5,000 a month for SEO ?

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Alright so i was browsing around the web an i do have an understanding of SEO but i wanted to see if there were any Experts out there that can explain what is the difference with these big E Commerce Sites out there known brands SEO an the seo you can find from Trusted Warriors here in the forum.

Do they strictly stick with White Hat meaning Link Per Link or do they also use automation systems in there linking Strategy.

Why do they pay more than an IM'er is it because they have no knowledge an these companies are just making more money off them. Or do they have a solid long term ranking in place that cost money do they use automation in there SEO?

Thanks!

-Ed
#month #seo
  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    The trusted warriors here in the forum are link builders. The services they offer are for building links to your site. They list their price for building a certain amount of links.

    Seo companies do seo personally for your site. They don't just build links. They analyze the competition, how they will beat them, what new keywords they can go for, on-site optimization, how long it will take. Not only that, they are educated in the financial aspect of it as well. When major companies go looking for their services, they look at their revenue, the potential income growth / traffic growth that they'll experience from moving higher in the serps, and then they'll say how much they want to make that happen for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Loveboa is correct for the most part SEO services on WF means backlinking and unfortunately mostly PR N/A and zero links or blog comments. Established companies do not want to suffer the PR disasters of hundreds of forums webmasters complaining that an established company is spamming their sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Mace
    Originally Posted by Edwards WOrld View Post


    Why do they pay more than an IM'er is it because they have no knowledge an these companies are just making more money off them.
    For most companies, spending $3000-$5000 on SEO is a rip off. If you have a basic understanding of how search engines determine relevance, you can spend a lot less on outsourcing to achieve the same result.

    But that requires that you take the time to understand things yourself. You can outsource everything indvidually for a lot cheaper. But it's a lot more complex than just sending X number of links to your web page.

    Any service that is solely focussed on the "number of links" generated, should be avoided at all costs. It's the quality of links and how you position them that matters the most.
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt281
      Originally Posted by co2 View Post

      For most companies, spending $3000-$5000 on SEO is a rip off. If you have a basic understanding of how search engines determine relevance, you can spend a lot less on outsourcing to achieve the same result.

      But that requires that you take the time to understand things yourself. You can outsource everything indvidually for a lot cheaper. But it's a lot more complex than just sending X number of links to your web page.

      Any service that is solely focussed on the "number of links" generated, should be avoided at all costs. It's the quality of links and how you position them that matters the most.
      For the average person/small business you're right, but for larger companies in competitive niches, $3000-5000 is nothing. I have a friend who co-owns a company that spends over $100,000 a year on SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by co2 View Post

      For most companies, spending $3000-$5000 on SEO is a rip off. If you have a basic understanding of how search engines determine relevance, you can spend a lot less on outsourcing to achieve the same result.
      Seriously this is just plain wrong. Outsourcers? Give me a break. Okay for all here saying that SEO in the thousands is a rip or waste etc, Please tell me how you will get links and do SEO for me if I do not want links

      From spamming forum profiles
      from spamming web 2.o sites
      from spamming blog comments
      from alot of Pr N/A PR zero articles directory pages
      from pages that have multiple links with all kinds of niches in them that look obvously like a home page backlink system
      where there is no spun content.

      NO BMR, NO SENUKEX etc. If you say guest blogging tell me how many unique well written articles and contacts will your outsourcer provide for me in order for me to rank.


      I am going to bet that most people in this thread will not be able to find a single "outsourcer" that can provide links without relying on links that I do not want and MANY companies do not want.

      Do I charge good money for such SEO? Sure. I am not ripping off anyone because I have to work my tail off, building link resources I control, making contacts, networking with site owners acquiring links impossible to acquire with software etc. Where the outsourcer pushes a button on Senukex and walks away placing all kinds of lousy links and content that will get my clients sites reported to Google I have to create links tht don't get Google complaining and webmasters associating my client with spammers.

      There is a VAST difference between knowing to do SEO for your affiliate and adsense page and entering into serps with business competition. You guys are kidding yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author grexley
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        From spamming forum profiles
        from spamming web 2.o sites
        from spamming blog comments
        from alot of Pr N/A PR zero articles directory pages
        from pages that have multiple links with all kinds of niches in them that look obvously like a home page backlink system
        where there is no spun content.

        NO BMR, NO SENUKEX etc.
        when you list it out like that, it just is begging for an "unnatural links detected" email.

        if i were spending 3k+ a month, i'd want to know for a fact that my links aren't coming from those sources.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by grexley View Post

          when you list it out like that, it just is begging for an "unnatural links detected" email.
          Thats right. You got it my man. Now just imagine telling a real business with employees that there will be much less income for the next 6 months because the SEO got his link building tips exclusively from WF.
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          • Profile picture of the author Edwards WOrld
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Thats right. You got it my man. Now just imagine telling a real business with employees that there will be much less income for the next 6 months because the SEO got his link building tips exclusively from WF.

            But Imagine telling the Biz Owner that Mike Anthony From the Warrior Forum will have to clean up some mess done by those spammy linkers Exclusively an Boom sales in the next six months are back up!

            Anthony is one of the Legit SEO dudes Browsing here btw...

            -Edward
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  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    For companies spending $10k - $100k on PPC a month, SEO for thousands a month is a sensible investment.

    These are not for us niche site owners.
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    • Profile picture of the author Edwards WOrld
      I thank you guys for pitching in.. How can I find the most cost effective SEO as a warrior I don't want to pay thousands right off the bat eventually will but to start things up 2k a month for SEO an then move up.

      Anyone have good sources for me to evaluate.(Don't PM about automated Links etc)

      Thanks.

      -Edward
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      • Profile picture of the author WilliamBlah
        Originally Posted by Edwards WOrld View Post

        I thank you guys for pitching in.. How can I find the most cost effective SEO as a warrior I don't want to pay thousands right off the bat eventually will but to start things up 2k a month for SEO an then move up.

        Anyone have good sources for me to evaluate.(Don't PM about automated Links etc)

        Thanks.

        -Edward
        Here's some advice! Find out exactly what types of links are being built, and then research to find out what the effects might be. Any service provider should be able to tell you exactly what types of links they are building for you, and if they can't, then drop them like a hot potato!

        Another tip: If you have your eye on a few services, send each one a link to the other services and ask: "Why are these guys worse than you? Why are you better?"

        They'll likely be very efficient at picking out flaws. (Take what they say with a pinch of salt, though!)

        Regards
        Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt281
    I'd definitely start off by building my own backlinks for a bit, just so you have a better understanding of what works and what doesn't. You can also buy highly-rated link packages off of fevor for $5 to see what kinds of links seem to work best.
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  • Profile picture of the author kasher9
    There's no point spending that sort of money on SEO. Once you understand how search engines rank pages, as everyone else has said, there's no need to waste that much money. Most of the work can be outsourced to specific services, saving you a fortune. I wouldn't start off with such an expensive campaign personally, it's better to dripfeed the links to Google. I'm not gonna say use my service to buy backlinks but I will say go for a medium service instead of a high-end service at the beginning, once you're bringing in some cash, then start investing a bit more.
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  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    Correct. Major companies spend that much money only because their ROI is that much greater. We're not talking about $1000/month niche sites here.
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  • Profile picture of the author mcario
    I think even large companies are wasting their money paying that much for SEO. Paying $10,000+ a month to hang out on the 1st page of google for any keyword/s is a bit excessive no matter what. Sure, they are making a lot of money and do it because it works but that same work can be outsourced and instead of spending that much a month you might spend it per year and get the same results. I do not think there is any advantage for having SEO or any software/research related task done locally because its all research and know how. Everything is done on a computer, so no matter where you are at, you can do the same thing. Its all about know how so if you can hire a great company in India or wherever they can do the exact same as a company here can because its all computer based. Just need to do a lot of researching to know what you are getting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian Moone
    time is money,they dont want to outsource and wait for month to get rank 1st
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  • Profile picture of the author adrienk
    I think those known brand companies charge such a high price because of two reasons: their fees are usually calculated in a monthly basis and they have to do things slowly and naturally. They have to build links in such a slow manner not (only) because their link building campaign has to look natural, but they also have to avoid google dance. Imagine you are one of those customers and could not found your site in Google top 200 results for a few days! How would you feel! So they have to try their very best to avoid the G dance.

    Personally I am not too worried about Google Dance. I have sites disappearing in Google top 200 for 14 days and returned on the first page. What did I do? Nothing! I think disappearance of your site is a signal that tells you to stop link building.

    Oups! Perhaps I am too off topic! Anyway, hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author David williamm
    I guess seo is just not about link building, SEO is about your online reputation on internet
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  • Profile picture of the author JaySG
    How much you charge for SEO depends more on the return on investment of your client. If your client is selling a $50 dollar widget and the profit is not that great, well, $3k per month can be an expensive proposition. However if your client can potentially make sales and make over $8k or more profit per sale, $3k per month is attractive if you can provide with quality leads.
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  • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
    My buddy owns a scooter site where he sells gas scooters, has over 2,000 affiliates and just signed with Toys R Us and Jc Penny. He spends 10K a month on SEO but his return is huge.

    He recommended that if your site makes less than $4,000 a month then do not pay for SEO, only a link building service. Anything over 4k a month then you can look into an SEO expert and pay $1000 a month as if you get someone who knows what they are doing your ROI will be very good.
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  • Profile picture of the author mypctechs
    What is the competition spending? If you don't spend more and they have a better SEO company you lose. That's why it can get to be very expensive... Big business has a lot of money to throw around on marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Edwards WOrld
      Originally Posted by mypctechs View Post

      What is the competition spending? If you don't spend more and they have a better SEO company you lose. That's why it can get to be very expensive... Big business has a lot of money to throw around on marketing.
      Thanks everyone ! I don't agree with this, if i spend more then my competition I am playing a spending Game I'm in for a business not a spending more type of thing. If i can find good SEO providers on my own then I pay much less then the big boys an Play in the game with them while they keep paying more for the same service.

      -Of course I am not gonna use Xblaster or whatever an will expect to pay some good money but not as much as my competition on rare cases will i spend more only if I will make much more but going into it thinking I will spend more an win is not smart.

      -Ed

      I have an advantage Warrior Forum
      Not all the SEO'ers here can Play in the Big Boy's League but i will give credit that there are a few selected browsing around here, thanks.





      -Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author EddieGee
    Asking whether $5K is a lot to spend on SEO is like asking if it's a lot to spend on newspaper advertising. It's very little if you're General Motors and very much if you're a small town barbershop.

    What kind of site are trying to do SEO for? If you're hoping to pick up a hundred bucks a month by putting up a little microniche site, then $5K is ridiculously high. OTOH, if you want to be the #1 personal injury attorney in New York City (in Google's eyes), then it's ridiculously little.

    I agree with other posters that it's good to check the competition. But at the end of the day, it's all about which "league" you want to "play in." If you want to get in the ring and duke it out with the big boys, you're going to have to pay to play. But if your goals are modest, there's no need to spend the big bucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaverickUK
    Mike you probably generate 90%+ of your links for clients using your network, I bet the other 10% consists of guest blogging of sorts. And what do you say is spammy? For example if I written a high quality article on squidoo and pointed it to a clients site, do you still consider this spammy?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Edwards WOrld View Post

      But Imagine telling the Biz Owner that Mike Anthony From the Warrior Forum will have to clean up some mess done by those spammy linkers Exclusively an Boom sales in the next six months are back up!

      Anthony is one of the Legit SEO dudes Browsing here btw...

      -Edward
      Me? I use xrummer,snukex all day long, hack into accounts and place links at will. Strictly all white hat stuff. lol



      Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

      Mike you probably generate 90%+ of your links for clients using your network, I bet the other 10% consists of guest blogging of sorts.

      Exactly what size bet are we talking here? Your percentages are a bit off and you missed some key techniques but I shouldn't tell you that until i hear the size of the bet.



      And what do you say is spammy? For example if I written a high quality article on squidoo and pointed it to a clients site, do you still consider this spammy?
      Google might because Cutt has said they don't like article directories but frankly I think they are being ridiculous. Any link to me that you gain by putting up good content is "White" hat as far as I am concerned. People have the mistaken impression that one company gets to determine what white and black is. I've never seen anyone syndicate a good article and get blacklisted by google anyway (trust me I get to see some of the people who say they have great content on this forum and then contact me for help and they almost never have good content). As long as that is not the case then they can call it what they will. However most article directories now are a pile of junk so google isn't paying much attention to them otherwise.

      Can you spam with articles and AMR ? sure can and its advocated by many here and has little use. Spinning one article to a thousand directories meets the level of spamming I think to most people not involved in the activity. No matter how good your spinner is it will lead to horrible content.

      Seriously if you are searching for something that you really need accurate and detailed information that you will rely on and you see an ezine article ranking do you bother reading it (I don't) and if you do how often is it even close to suiting your needs?
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  • Profile picture of the author uoftenwinny
    Experience and skills should be more important thing that a client will think about. Also the work, is it heavy or not. Sure there are lots of factors.
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  • Profile picture of the author PetGuru
    you require time.because seo takes time you did not expect 30,000$ in a month in just a few months
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  • Profile picture of the author Harga
    I worked for an IM company up until recently, a client paid my company roughly 15k/month for SEO. I used to spend my days buying links all day - I would spend as much as $500 on one link.
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    • Profile picture of the author Edwards WOrld
      Originally Posted by Harga View Post

      I worked for an IM company up until recently, a client paid my company roughly 15k/month for SEO. I used to spend my days buying links all day - I would spend as much as $500 on one link.
      15k man I am sure that seo company is making a Good profit off that I'd say half profit an half link building.



      -Ed
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