SEO services on the WF: A thing of the past?

Um no.

Let me preface this by sayin that I am an SEO service provider on WF.

As long as Google uses an algorithm, it will always be able to be manipulated.

Almost every metric Google uses to evaluate websites can and is manipulated.

And since this is true, SEO services will always exist, though perhaps the crappy ones will be weeded out.

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Hitson

NewGuy,

if you want to listen to anyone, I'd suggest you listen to GYUMAN.

He knows what he's doing!

No offense to anyone involved, but I tend to question anyone who makes forum profile links a part of their SEO strategy.

That being said, I can probably count on one hand how many SEO services I have found on WF that I would consider to be worthwhile.

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GyuMan82

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

No offense to anyone involved, but I tend to question anyone who makes forum profile links a part of their SEO strategy.

That being said, I can probably count on one hand how many SEO services I have found on WF that I would consider to be worthwhile.

I have nothing but respect for you in regards as a poster, however often I feel your criticisms of SEO tools are unwarranted.

I know that you are not a big fan of automated tools, and I know that you love "manual" linkbuilding, and that's great if it's worked for you.

However just because SEO tools has not worked for you, does not mean they will not work for others.

Tools are only as good as the person wielding them, and I agree that there are many that don't know how to use them. Hell most people probably do not. Hell most people offering services on WF do not know how to use them.

However the few that do know how to use them will get a ton of benefit out of them.

Almost everything that you can do by hand I can do faster and more efficiently with software. Furthermore I can build them in such a way that does not leave any footprints.

Furthermore when I combine software with my own manually built links the combination is very powerful. Both Manual and Automated links are necessary to get to the top.

If you think you're going to "manually" build your way to the top for some tough keywords, you are seriously deluding yourself.

To get to the top you need both quality and quantity of links.

I guess we can agree to disagree

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IM Ash

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GyuMan82

I have nothing but respect for you in regards as a poster, however often I feel your criticisms of SEO tools are unwarranted.

I know that you are not a big fan of automated tools, and I know that you love "manual" linkbuilding, and that's great if it's worked for you.

However just because SEO tools has not worked for you, does not mean they will not work for others.

Tools are only as good as the person wielding them, and I agree that there are many that don't know how to use them. Hell most people probably do not. Hell most people offering services on WF do not know how to use them.

However the few that do know how to use them will get a ton of benefit out of them.

Almost everything that you can do by hand I can do faster and more efficiently with software. Furthermore I can build them in such a way that does not leave any footprints.

Furthermore when I combine software with my own manually built links the combination is very powerful. Both Manual and Automated links are necessary to get to the top.

If you think you're going to "manually" build your way to the top for some tough keywords, you are seriously deluding yourself.

To get to the top you need both quality and quantity of links.

I guess we can agree to disagree

He didn't say anything about automation or the use of tools!

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MikeFriedman

13 years ago

Originally Posted by GyuMan82

I have nothing but respect for you in regards as a poster, however often I feel your criticisms of SEO tools are unwarranted.

I know that you are not a big fan of automated tools, and I know that you love "manual" linkbuilding, and that's great if it's worked for you.

However just because SEO tools has not worked for you, does not mean they will not work for others.

Tools are only as good as the person wielding them, and I agree that there are many that don't know how to use them. Hell most people probably do not. Hell most people offering services on WF do not know how to use them.

However the few that do know how to use them will get a ton of benefit out of them.

Almost everything that you can do by hand I can do faster and more efficiently with software. Furthermore I can build them in such a way that does not leave any footprints.

Furthermore when I combine software with my own manually built links the combination is very powerful. Both Manual and Automated links are necessary to get to the top.

If you think you're going to "manually" build your way to the top for some tough keywords, you are seriously deluding yourself.

To get to the top you need both quality and quantity of links.

I guess we can agree to disagree

Originally Posted by Eleva8

He didn't say anything about automation or the use of tools!

Eleva is correct. I said nothing about automation.

I said that forum profile links suck and I question anyone selling them pretending they have some SEO benefit.

I never said there was anything wrong with automation. I automate a lot of things.

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yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

No offense to anyone involved, but I tend to question anyone who makes forum profile links a part of their SEO strategy.

That being said, I can probably count on one hand how many SEO services I have found on WF that I would consider to be worthwhile.

Exactly!

The problem is as long as people on this forum are selling junk profile links (or anything related), you'll always have those folks defending junk links as If they have some value, which between you & I, we both know better.

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jimmyn

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

No offense to anyone involved, but I tend to question anyone who makes forum profile links a part of their SEO strategy.

That being said, I can probably count on one hand how many SEO services I have found on WF that I would consider to be worthwhile.

I'd agree with this.

They still work but the good ones are few and far between. Some providers are far better at sales copy than they are at building links. If anyone knows a good service on here i'd be interested to see it, as i haven't found one yet.

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SEOFriendlies

13 years ago

This post proves that SEO services still, and will continue to exist.

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John Williamson 13 years ago

Sure they'll still exist. They'll have to adapt, obviously, but as long as someone offers the "right" type of links, why wouldn't they exist...
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orpaz191

13 years ago

SEO has always been a cat and mouse chase. It doesn't matter if you use warrior forum offers or do it yourself.
By saying warrior forum services is a thing of the past is like saying SEO is a thing of the past, but our bank accounts don't agree with that

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cssitkt 13 years ago

I've tried quite a few SEO Services on WF and all of them were 100% low quality spam. Sure some increased my ranking quite effectively but now all my sites are penalised and worthless. For those still saying there is no penalty, I have the letter from Google to prove it.

My view is stay well away from SEO services on WF unless you really know what you're buying and what effect it will have now and in the future.

Of course we're up against an algo and there will always be ways to manipulate it but Google always updates it's algo to address these weaknesses and now directly penalises sites deemed to be taking advantage.

One big problem with WP SEO services is nobody is checking your entire link profile, domain age, authority and pitching the link building to fit.

99% of of SEO services are at best a quick and reckless gain and at worst a complete waste of money and the end of your website.
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birty

13 years ago

Thanks for that post, GyuMan, that was very well stated.......

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LMC

13 years ago

It's not that hard... build a natural looking link campaign, not just in the NOW, but plan it out for the next 3-6 months.

Think about how something naturally get's linked on the Google. It's not with profile links, it's not with tons of homepage PR links... it's with diversity, and not just with one anchor text.

We now just have to be smarter with our link building.

Oh how I miss 2010

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cssitkt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by LMC

It's not that hard... build a natural looking link campaign, not just in the NOW, but plan it out for the next 3-6 months.

Think about how something naturally get's linked on the Google. It's not with profile links, it's not with tons of homepage PR links... it's with diversity, and not just with one anchor text.

We now just have to be smarter with our link building.

Oh how I miss 2010

Great advice.

Automated tools, spun content & low quality links are dangerous and most WF services are exactly that - dangerous.

If you're totally reliant on bought links to promote your site then i'd say you've gone well wrong.

Work on improving your content / product and attract links naturally. A good product will attract all the links you need and you should avoid any Google penalties.

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LiftMyRank

13 years ago

I think we're one of the bigger SEO providers on here and it's still business as usual, as we've been saying for months SEO is changing, the low hanging fruit isn't there, you have to have a good site, panda 3.3 confirms this trend, young/thin sites got their ass kicked, bring me a good site older than 6 months and i'll rank you any day of the week, google will always change and so will we....

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Penalties are just time-outs and temporary. If you're using a lot of automated tools, then accept that you will get a time-out once in a while and learn from it.

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cssitkt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Penalties are just time-outs and temporary. If you're using a lot of automated tools, then accept that you will get a time-out once in a while and learn from it.

Google Webmaster Tools notice of unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank...once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results. If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request

is that just a temporary time-out?

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by cssitkt

Google Webmaster Tools notice of unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank...once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results. If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request

is that just a temporary time-out?

Yes, manual penalties expire after a set period (can be anywhere from 1 to 12 months) and algorithmic ones either expire or your site bounces back after it gets automatically re-evaluated by the algorithm (if you make changes).

Every single site I own (that has been slapped by Google in some way) has recovered over time. I track everything and the time-outs are normally 30-32 days (one month), with a few exceptions where it took 3 months and a year once.

The "unnatural links" notice is one of those^^ penalties. One of my sites recovered twice now (got slapped, recovered after a month. Then slapped again two months later and just recovered this week - again after one month).

I hope your sites recover soon!

edit: just wanted to add that I do not promote spam or ****ty SEO techniques - everyone has a different opinion on the subject. However, Google do not permanently kill websites for unnatural backlink profiles. Such penalties are merely time-outs and ALWAYS expire over time (including manual penalties).

I do have a ****load of evidence including exact timing of everything - rankings, dates, SEO techniques used and all messages from Google. For most people these time-outs are enough to scare them away from any "bad" SEO and that's how it should be. I like to test things and really don't care about losing a couple of sites in the process (which hasn't happened yet).

The only penalties that don't expire are manual site evaluation ones where your site gets marked as "useless" by the quality raters. So build good, useful websites.

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Blakers

13 years ago

I was penalized across a network of sites (20+) on 2/6. My guess is one site was manually reviewed, my adsense pub-id was identified, and every site associated with adsense was smacked back 5 pages or so. If what you say is correct, sometime this week I should be seeing them all bounce back, except the one that may have been marked as "useless junk". Man, I sure hope that is the case because not all of them deserved to be penalized. We'll see what gives....

Originally Posted by bnetwork

Yes, manual penalties expire after a set period (can be anywhere from 1 to 12 months) and algorithmic ones either expire or your site bounces back after it gets automatically re-evaluated by the algorithm (if you make changes).

Every single site I own (that has been slapped by Google in some way) has recovered over time. I track everything and the time-outs are normally 30-32 days (one month), with a few exceptions where it took 3 months and a year once.

The "unnatural links" notice is one of those^^ penalties. One of my sites recovered twice now (got slapped, recovered after a month. Then slapped again two months later and just recovered this week - again after one month).

I hope your sites recover soon!

edit: just wanted to add that I do not promote spam or ****ty SEO techniques - everyone has a different opinion on the subject. However, Google do not permanently kill websites for unnatural backlink profiles. Such penalties are merely time-outs and ALWAYS expire over time (including manual penalties).

I do have a ****load of evidence including exact timing of everything - rankings, dates, SEO techniques used and all messages from Google. For most people these time-outs are enough to scare them away from any "bad" SEO and that's how it should be. I like to test things and really don't care about losing a couple of sites in the process (which hasn't happened yet).

The only penalties that don't expire are manual site evaluation ones where your site gets marked as "useless" by the quality raters. So build good, useful websites.

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Mike Anthony

13 years ago

Originally Posted by bnetwork

The "unnatural links" notice is one of those^^ penalties. One of my sites recovered twice now (got slapped, recovered after a month. Then slapped again two months later and just recovered this week - again after one month).

Most people who get that notice are NOT back in business in a month. You may not have even gotten a penalty. This guy just updated us that his site hasn't comeback since the thread started in August

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...backlinks.html

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Mantasmo

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Most people who get that notice are NOT back in business in a month. You may not have even gotten a penalty. This guy just updated us that his site hasn't comeback since the thread started in August

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...backlinks.html

Well there you go, there's obviously more to it then. My experience has always been that sites come back up (not always in a month). It can take 6 or 12 months even, though that only happened once.

I do continue adding content though, as well as high PR backlinks (at least lately). Plus my sites are really high quality, so that might help. Who knows.

The penalties are quite easy to spot - you drop to pages 5/6 or 10/11/12 instantly for all keywords and all pages (from page one).

edit: I just checked out that thread - he says it's an algorithmic penalty. Obviously not enough has been done for the algo to decide that his site is fine. Has anyone actually seen the sites? How much content, how are they structured, how good is the content, are they regularly updated, how is the link building done (straight to homepage or inner pages as well)?

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JSProjects

13 years ago

SEO is constantly evolving. As long as there are search engines, SEO will never go away.

That's all there is to it, really.

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melahi

13 years ago

Look at good white hat SEO as something done for the long term and done to help the search engines. Google is smart so it will eventually sift through the spam and get it right counting the real links.

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uoftenwinny

13 years ago

SEO is not a thing of past. Also It will be changed as Google panda updates. But I really think it becomes harder than before.

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megawarrior

13 years ago

SEO is a "cat-and-mouse game". We always try to rank higher in SERPs, then Google changes it's algorithm, then we try to find other SEO techniques, then Google changes its algoritm once again... and it goes on.

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chetankm

13 years ago

SEO service is always cat and mouse chase. But remember google panda is always updating, whenever its update you start worrying and what you need SEO service.

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SEO services on the WF: A thing of the past?

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