All sites hit with the unnatural backlinks penalty , rankings are dropping fast.

by nest28
220 replies
  • SEO
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Recently I have seen couple of my sites lose rankings but thought nothing of it, normally they always bounce back. Today all sites received the unnatural backlinks message. One site in question only had 372 backlinks from Matt Laclear's drip feed service while the others only had few thousand from various sources. Visitors have drop down to almost none since yesterday and so has my income. I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google. This even has me thinking of returning to law enforcement something I hate doing but I am really good at it.



the psychiatric nurse practitioner

Edit: My girlfriend just ask me did I use bmr and I forgot I did have just a couple links from them on all my sites. I signed up for them a day before they close their doors and thought I had gotten lucky lol.
#backlinks #dropping #fast #hit #penalty #rankings #sites #unnatural
  • Profile picture of the author SEOMasters
    Always do what you are best at and love most!
    Wish you all the best
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

      Always do what you are best at and love most!
      Wish you all the best
      Thank you very much, I fear the worst for most imers, I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?
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      • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thank you very much, I fear the worst for most imers, I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?
        Well, didn't see anything spectacular just yet mate. So don't start to worry just yet. Some of my sites got a higher ranking after the last Google changes. I think we will know more at the end of this month.
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by StevenJones View Post

          Well, didn't see anything spectacular just yet mate. So don't start to worry just yet. Some of my sites got a higher ranking after the last Google changes. I think we will know more at the end of this month.
          That's the same thing I thought, most of my sites had first page rankings ,some had top 5 rankings now those that were at position 4 or 3 is now at 50 and 70. I will wait and see what happens, but it making me think about this whole im thing it can be gone in a instance.

          Please don't let my situation get anyone down continue trying your best at making full time income. I wish everyone the best and hope none of you experience what I am going through.
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          • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            That's the same thing I thought, most of my sites had first page rankings ,some had top 5 rankings now those that were at position 4 or 3 is now at 50 and 70. I will wait and see what happens, but it making me think about this whole im thing it can be gone in a instance.

            Please don't let my situation get anyone down continue trying your best at making full time income. I wish everyone the best and hope none of you experience what I am going through.
            Seems to me that Google is asking you to dance. So don't worry, and please don't do something you don't love, you've been there I assume so why go back? There are plenty of other ways to be profitable Hang in there!
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            • Profile picture of the author nest28
              Originally Posted by daisy172 View Post

              Not all backlinks get a penalty notice!

              It was probably the Matt LeClear service that caused you grief, you probably didn't submit enough to BMR to make a difference.

              Also - it's not really a penalty as the fact that your backlinks are devalued (so it's as though you have none).

              The answer is to get more backlinks to replace the ones you have lost, but better quality ones. The following article has some suggestions as to alternative sources of links:

              Build My Rank Alternatives - SEO for blogs, bloggers, blogging

              Guest posting can be time consuming, but that makes it rarely used because your competitors will be too lazy to do it.

              To conserve your time and energy, pick the top five pages on your site that brought in the most income and concentrate on backlinking them. When they are ranked, you can then move onto other pages on your site.

              Good luck.

              P.S. I noticed on the other thread you said you only backlinked your homepage and relied on internal linking to redistribute the juice. This is not a good practice as it leaves you vulnerable should Google dial down the value they place on internal linking.

              If you focus on backlinking your top traffic pages, you should regain rankings, especially if those pages have never received external backlinks before.
              Thank you very much for the advice I'll get started on building new valuable links right away.
              Originally Posted by Dopeland View Post

              PPC, Web 2.0 exposure, social networking, etc etc...

              I fear for people who have no creativity.
              No offense but not in the mood to hear smart remarks, if you were going to comment how about offering something useful to not only help me but anyone else who might be in this situation. As for your suggestions of PPC, Web 2.0 exposure, social networking, etc etc... those are already well known sources so how is that being creative.

              Originally Posted by StevenJones View Post

              Seems to me that Google is asking you to dance. So don't worry, and please don't do something you don't love, you've been there I assume so why go back? There are plenty of other ways to be profitable Hang in there!
              Thank you very much I appreciate the good advice.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dopeland
                Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                No offense but not in the mood to hear smart remarks, if you were going to comment how about offering something useful to not only help me but anyone else who might be in this situation. As for your suggestions of PPC, Web 2.0 exposure, social networking, etc etc... those are already well known sources so how is that being creative.
                Its how you use them that is creative. If backlinks were your only trick in the bag then IM is not for you.
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                • Profile picture of the author nest28
                  Originally Posted by Dopeland View Post

                  Its how you use them that is creative. If backlinks were your only trick in the bag then IM is not for you.
                  The fact that I make a full time income online says otherwise. Believe me I'll be just fine. This is second time you tried say a smart remark and your new here, what's the point
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dopeland
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    The fact that I make a full time income online says otherwise. Believe me I'll be just fine. This is second time you tried say a smart remark and your new here, what's the point
                    The fact that I'm new here is irrelevant, the fact that you think you make full time income online is irrelevant. You just created a thread stating that your IM ventures have been shafted by google's penalties towards unnatural backlinks and you express your thoughts of quitting.

                    The "fact" that you make full time income online was contradicted by the premise of this thread.

                    You stated yourself, "I don't know how to rank websites without backlinks."

                    I'm simply heckling you for choosing to be a failure, you can't blame me bud. Consider it an indirect form of advice.
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                    • Profile picture of the author nest28
                      Originally Posted by Dopeland View Post

                      The fact that I'm new here is irrelevant, the fact that you think you make full time income online is irrelevant. You just created a thread stating that your IM ventures have been shafted by google's penalties towards unnatural backlinks and you express your thoughts of quitting.

                      The "fact" that you make full time income online was contradicted by the premise of this thread.

                      You stated yourself, "I don't know how to rank websites without backlinks."

                      I'm simply heckling you for choosing to be a failure, you can't blame me bud. Consider it an indirect form of advice.
                      Its funny how everyone saw the exact same thread and thought to them selves hmm let me give this guy good advice, and the only thing you could think is him hhmm let me be a smart a$$. I did not choose to be a failure the fact the I have made good money would in fact imply that I'm a success.

                      I thought about returning to work for 2 reasons, one I didn't want to be without a steady income, and two I made that decision without really giving myself time to think, it was a reflex thought.

                      The last few days I have done nothing but share my methods of success to help others, even sharing my personal sites. What do you have to offer to this forum because so for I'm not impressed.

                      Edit: Before I let my temper get the best of me I'll say this, I respect your opinions and wish you the best. I have work to do see ya.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dopeland
                        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                        Its funny how everyone saw the exact same thread and thought to them selves hmm let me give this guy good advice, and the only thing you could think is him hhmm let me be a smart a$$. I did not choose to be a failure the fact the I have made good money would in fact imply that I'm a success.

                        I thought about returning to work for 2 reasons, one I didn't want to be without a steady income, and two I made that decision without really giving myself time to think, it was a reflex thought.

                        The last few days I have done nothing but share my methods of success to help others, even sharing my personal sites. What do you have to offer to this forum because so for I'm not impressed.

                        Edit: Before I let my temper get the best of me I'll say this, I respect your opinions and wish you the best. I have work to do see ya.
                        I just offered you the best advice here. I showed you why your pages lost their rank and I showed you how to fix it.
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                        • Profile picture of the author nest28
                          Originally Posted by Dopeland View Post

                          I just offered you the best advice here. I showed you why your pages lost their rank and I showed you how to fix it.
                          In that case I thank you very much sir, have a great day.
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                          • Profile picture of the author boxoun
                            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                            In that case I thank you very much sir, have a great day.

                            I agree op. Not to instigate but web 2.0 and social networks is hardly creative or good advise.


                            I'm starting over and only getting a few links from each blog network source. I never backlinks home page so that if a page gets canned I can just delete the page. Not tested yet. I'm also becoming an expert in my niches by reading books or purchasing products.

                            Keep grinding until you figure it out. Don't give up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dopeland
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thank you very much, I fear the worst for most imers, I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?
        PPC, Web 2.0 exposure, social networking, etc etc...

        I fear for people who have no creativity.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?

        Build quality sites and target low competition keywords. I make several thousand dollars per month via Amazon and I do zero backlinking.
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        • Profile picture of the author seolvl1
          Can i ask if you are only doing backlink building n the home page or all the inner pages too?
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        • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Build quality sites and target low competition keywords. I make several thousand dollars per month via Amazon and I do zero backlinking.
          Sniper targetting it seems?
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

            Build quality sites and target low competition keywords. I make several thousand dollars per month via Amazon and I do zero backlinking.
            This is actually what I do, most of my sites don't have that many link. I'll get started on building a new 100 page site and will not back link at all, just to see if I will still get that long tail traffic that I'm used to.
            Originally Posted by seolvl1 View Post

            Can i ask if you are only doing backlink building n the home page or all the inner pages too?
            Mostly homepage
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          • Profile picture of the author Denise L Durband
            Sorry, I am a newb here, what is a SNIPER SITE?
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          • Profile picture of the author Denise L Durband
            Originally Posted by StevenJones View Post

            Sniper targetting it seems?
            Sorry, I am quite possibly the newest person here...What is sniper targeting or what is a Sniper Site? I take it its not good
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            • Profile picture of the author nest28
              Originally Posted by Denise L Durband View Post


              I just checked my webmaster tools for my sites and noticed that there were a small mass of missing links for me all of a sudden (well, in three days because that is when I checked it last, on the 26th) and I tried to look up why it might have happened, and I found this thread here at warrior forum, of which I have been a part of but never posted a thread as of yet - but what I am saying is that I am missing a bunch all of a sudden but I haven't gotten any warnings from Google. I would assume that they would contact me with my Gmail account? but I have not gotten one. Does it take time for them to send out warnings? I just don't understand why I lost as many as I did (235-->165, 310-->238, 234-->196. I used Social Monkee when I first started these 3/6 sites I have and these are the three I used them on. I can only guess that the culprit lies in those backlinks created thru SM. But I am just guessing. How do I find out? I think natural building is the way to go now. You can only use SM on each URL once anyway, so it was a service that became obsolete fast for 'building backlinks'. Probably a bad idea on my part but I was BRAND NEW when someone suggested it to me. It's hard to trust what someone teaches you, I have learned. Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions on how I find out why I lost those since I never got a warning from Google? I would imagine that I would have gotten a warning for each site but got none...

              Help a poor warriorette out fellow marketers...thanks.
              I will keep checking back to this thread for answers, and thanks in advance for taking the time out to help me.
              I wouldn't worry about the missing links, it's been times where I check my webmasters tools and seen one of my sites links jump from 5,200 to 7,400 and vice versa.

              Originally Posted by Denise L Durband View Post

              Sorry, I am quite possibly the newest person here...What is sniper targeting or what is a Sniper Site? I take it its not good
              I never really paid attention to the whole sniper site craze , but from my understanding there kinda like micro niches sites built around one word. I could be wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author Denise L Durband
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Build quality sites and target low competition keywords. I make several thousand dollars per month via Amazon and I do zero backlinking.
          Some people can't USE Amazon...I am one that lives in Illinois. It totally sucks too, but there are other ways of making an income. If you keep all you eggs in the Amazon basket, when those laws come to YOUR state or where you live, you won't be sorry, because it is coming. it is coming.
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      • Profile picture of the author John F Kennedy
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thank you very much, I fear the worst for most imers, I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?
        In a nut shell..

        By building authority sites that people actually either learn from or benefit in some way with quality informal content. Not just getting them there to make a sale.

        And to target real backlinks like 'social proof; proving that your sites offer value to the user as they recommend it to their network.

        If your sites offer value to the user they will be bookmarked, liked, tweeted and G+. Then add some article marketing and some real backlinks from other quality informal sites.

        I have seen my sites go up in rankings due to poor sites being de-ranked. We all need to take a different stance by making the internet a better place and sifting out the garbage.

        Unfortunately though, some sites that do offer quality content are being penalized too because of the so many unnatural backlinks they have.

        I used to turn out a couple of garbage sites a day, made money doing it too. Felt guilty that I was cluttering the airways with crap. Then took a different stance, now it is paying off.

        That's my 2 pennies worth anyway..

        Good luck
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      • Profile picture of the author smileverse
        All you have to do is find a trending topic which is relevant to your website's category and create the quality, original content regarding to that trending topic and of course it can be beneficial for you in getting a good page rank. If user like your stuff in your site, they may likely to place a link to your article/site/page.

        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thank you very much, I fear the worst for most imers, I mean how can we build sites without backlinks?
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  • Profile picture of the author daisy172
    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

    I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google.
    Not all backlinks get a penalty notice!

    It was probably the Matt LeClear service that caused you grief, you probably didn't submit enough to BMR to make a difference.

    Also - it's not really a penalty as the fact that your backlinks are devalued (so it's as though you have none).

    The answer is to get more backlinks to replace the ones you have lost, but better quality ones. The following article has some suggestions as to alternative sources of links:

    Build My Rank Alternatives - SEO for blogs, bloggers, blogging

    Guest posting can be time consuming, but that makes it rarely used because your competitors will be too lazy to do it.

    To conserve your time and energy, pick the top five pages on your site that brought in the most income and concentrate on backlinking them. When they are ranked, you can then move onto other pages on your site.

    Good luck.

    P.S. I noticed on the other thread you said you only backlinked your homepage and relied on internal linking to redistribute the juice. This is not a good practice as it leaves you vulnerable should Google dial down the value they place on internal linking.

    If you focus on backlinking your top traffic pages, you should regain rankings, especially if those pages have never received external backlinks before.
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    • Profile picture of the author bcruan
      There is no way you could know it was matt leclear's service. Its not good form to go round making random accusations about other warrior forum members.

      I have used only Matts service one one of my sights and it still sits at number one. It may well be that, but to just guess that it is without having any real insight is wrong and damaging to his business/reputation.
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by bcruan View Post

        There is no way you could know it was matt leclear's service. Its not good form to go round making random accusations about other warrior forum members.

        I have used only Matts service one one of my sights and it still sits at number one. It may well be that, but to just guess that it is without having any real insight is wrong and damaging to his business/reputation.
        I have not used any other backlinks on this site, except a few and I do mean a few bmr posts. I have 372 backlinks showing in my webmaster tools for this site all of which are links his service built. This site is only 2 months old and I was using matt's service just to start some kind of link profile for the site in question.

        The few bmr posts I had was deleted a long time ago so what else could it be?

        Maybe it is you who should wait til they have all the facts.

        Edit: I would never go around trying to hurt someone's business. Even if his service is the cause I would never blame him for getting the notice of unnatural backlinks. I paid him to build links and I take full responsibility my decision. Google has change the way we must do things and I believe even matt has recently said if his article drip feed stops working they will move on to something that does. Also it's worth mentioning that they advise their customers to remove google analytics from there sites hmm I wonder why.

        Honestly he says his links are rarely found in webmaster tool, well I found them just fine and if you check links to http://www.thepsychiatricnursepractitioner.com/ you'll see that they look like article directories from article marketing robot. If I were you I take this thread as a warning not to use those types of links to your site.
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        • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          I have not used any other backlinks on this site, except a few and I do mean a few bmr posts.
          One thing about our drip feed system, it isn't an all in one linking solution. You shouldn't only get blog/article type of links. This is all that it does at the moment. It isn't natural to get only those kinds of links, if people were really talking about your site they would be doing it in other ways and with more than 5 keywords. They would most likely not be using proper anchor text either. The "click here" type anchor texts would be used a lot.

          We now allow 25 keywords (will be adding more shortly). You've got to adapt as google is a moving target.

          I have 372 backlinks showing in my webmaster tools for this site all of which are links his service built.
          This isn't true based upon what I found.
          This site is only 2 months old and I was using matt's service just to start some kind of link profile for the site in question.
          The worst thing you could do is stop backlinking. You should diversify the linking with more anchors and non anchor links as well.
          The few bmr posts I had was deleted a long time ago so what else could it be?
          There are some blog comments....
          If I were you I take this thread as a warning not to use those types of links to your site.
          This should be a warning to not use one type of link with few anchor variations. Additionally losing rankings for a couple of days isn't all that uncommon. It isn't like your site was real established in the first place. You also have to take a close look at your on site as Google has started to penalize "over-optimization" as well. This goes for both on page and off. There are far too many factors involved to say one thing definitely caused the ranking decrease.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

            We now allow 25 keywords (will be adding more shortly). You've got to adapt as google is a moving target.......
            The worst thing you could do is stop backlinking. You should diversify the linking with more anchors and non anchor links as well.
            Not trying to start a flame war but this is dangerous advice and has to be addressed for the those reading this thread. If someone gets their sites slapped they need to look at the links they are getting and change the quality of their links (get them from pages with less links, no spun text and that look natural). The mere inclusion of more keywords does nothing to protect them if a network is being slapped or scrutinized. IF you had a mega account at BMR you would still see your sites tank as they were deindexed.

            Previous posts indicating that spinning doesn't matter because BMR didn't allow spinning and got hit are off as well. Its like saying you don't need a lock on your door because the next door neighbor got robbed with a crook entering in through a window. A site with gibberish text is most certainly a factor when Google identifies bought and rental network links.

            DO NOT USE ANY NETWORK THAT RANDOM SPINS - the days for that are over. Rewriting can work and there are a few tools that do that well.

            Lastly the idea that your have received a notice and your sites are falling that you should just keep backlinking is false. Stop. Re-evaluate - change your strategy with good links or services that offer better links and start over. Just blindly continuing on but with the addition of extra keywords is as they say - insanity - doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
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            • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Not trying to start a flame war but this is dangerous advice and has to be addressed for the those reading this thread. If someone gets their sites slapped they need to look at the links they are getting and change the quality of their links (get them from pages with less links, no spun text and that look natural). The mere inclusion of more keywords does nothing to protect them if a network is being slapped or scrutinized. IF you had a mega account at BMR you would still see your sites tank as they were deindexed.
              The problem here is Google has made multiple changes at once. The over optimization penalty is working for anchor texted links too.
              Previous posts indicating that spinning doesn't matter because BMR didn't allow spinning and got hit are off as well. Its like saying you don't need a lock on your door because the next door neighbor got robbed with a crook entering in through a window. A site with gibberish text is most certainly a factor when Google identifies bought and rental network links.
              That is your opinion Mike and I see no reason to accept it out of hand. Our domains have not been deindexed and they are still giving us results.
              DO NOT USE ANY NETWORK THAT RANDOM SPINS - the days for that are over. Rewriting can work and there are a few tools that do that well.
              You were recommending BMR just a few months ago. Why should this proclamation be any better?
              Lastly the idea that your have received a notice and your sites are falling that you should just keep backlinking is false. Stop. Re-evaluate - change your strategy with good links or services that offer better links and start over. Just blindly continuing on but with the addition of extra keywords is as they say - insanity - doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
              I didn't say to just blindly continue doing the same thing so I'm not sure what your point is. Adding more anchor text is ONE thing that I was recommending. You need more diverse anchor text and a more diverse link sources and you need to de-optimize your site. Optimize for your niche and not just for your keywords.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                That is your opinion Mike and I see no reason to accept it out of hand. Our domains have not been deindexed and they are still giving us results.



                of course Marc spinning until a domain's page is filled with useless gibberish with links pointing to multiple different subjects ann niches has nothing to do with a reviewer being able to identify a network site. Nothing.:rolleyes:

                Seriously anyone else in this thread really believe that? Speak UP!!! LOL.

                You were recommending BMR just a few months ago. Why should this proclamation be any better?
                Borderline fibbing there my man. Every regular on this board knows I am into people building their own and have been for nearly a year now. When asked about renting I suggested BMR as one of the better ones. Case closed. Would I still recommend a service like that over a service that spun gibberish? why of course. BMR got dinged because they were big and successful. The idea that that translates into it being okay to use automatically spun garbage and sticking links in them is preposterous and everyone reading this thread knows its baloney.

                Adding more anchor text is ONE thing that I was recommending. You need more diverse anchor text and a more diverse link sources and you need to de-optimize your site. Optimize for your niche and not just for your keywords.
                I don't care how much you want to sell the idea or any drip feeding service being the answer to deindexing and unnatural links to suit yourself . Its all nonsense. When google identifies a network it doesn't matter how diverse your anchor text is they simple follow the links do backlink checks and unravel significant portions of it.

                Question to anyone else reading this thread. Do you really think that if you rank for a term over a competitor and he reports you and google checks your backlinks that they will let you off the hook because you released your spammy links ......Slowly? Thats hilarious.

                Do you really think their algo will ignore that your link profile comes from spam bought sources because at least you mixed up the keywords while spamming???

                So coming back to You marc. No people don't have to believe me that auto spinning is no longer a good idea that should be abandoned on pages giving links because I said it but because they have a brain and they ALL know that a site that looks unnatural with spun gibberish with links on them is a take two second indicator of an unnatural link. end of story.

                You may get a few newbies coming into this section for the first time but everyone else with a smidgen of SEO sense knows you are blowing smoke.
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                • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                  [quote=Mike Anthony;6001601]


                  of course Marc spinning until a domain's page is filled with useless gibberish with links pointing to multiple different subjects ann niches has nothing to do with a reviewer being able to identify a network site. Nothing.:rolleyes:
                  and yet our "gibberish" filled domains are not deindexed you do the math.
                  Seriously anyone else in this thread really believe that? Speak UP!!! LOL.
                  Theoretically but there has been no deindexing on our domains (at least nothing out of the ordinary). The bottom line is that all sorts of sites are getting the unnatural link notification.
                  Borderline fibbing there my man. Every regular on this board knows I am into people building their own and have been for nearly a year now. When asked about renting I suggested BMR as one of the better ones. Case closed.
                  There are people who took your advice and used them and now wish they didn't listen to you, case closed. Now you are making more "suggestions" and I for one wouldn't listen to anything you have to say.
                  I don't care how much you want to sell the idea or any drip feeding service being the answer to deindexing and unnatural links to suit yourself . Its all nonsense. When google identifies a network it doesn't matter how diverse your anchor text is they simple follow the links do backlink checks and unravel significant portions of it.
                  Who is talking about deindexing? Who is talking about blog networks for that matter? You do this a lot Mike you construct a strawman and attack it.
                  Question to anyone else reading this thread. Do you really think that if you rank for a term over a competitor and he reports you and google checks your backlinks that they will let you off the hook because you released your spammy links ......Slowly? Thats hilarious.
                  Again, irrelevant to anything anybody is talking about.
                  So coming back to You marc. No people don't have to believe me that auto spinning is no longer a good idea that should be abandoned on pages giving links because I said it but because they have a brain and they ALL know that a site that looks unnatural with spun gibberish with links on them is a take two second indicator of an unnatural link. end of story.
                  How can that be the end of the story? You don't know for a fact what Google is looking at nor how they determine an "unnatural link". Hell, I've seen reports of people getting the "unnatural" link message had no backlinks.
                  You may get a few newbies coming into this section for the first time but everyone else with a smidgen of SEO sense knows you are blowing smoke.
                  As usual you mischaracterize my points into strawmen.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    [quote=Marc_L;6002521]
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    and yet our "gibberish" filled domains are not deindexed you do the math.
                    Thats what you say. Like you I have no requirement to take your word for it. The Op says otherwise, is totally believable with no vested interest in lying and there ARE verifiably pages there no longer indexed.:rolleyes: Furthermore I see no denials of your links pointing at his site . All there is is denial(Without evidence) that that was the reason for the notice and the tanking of his site but thats to be expected.

                    The bottom line is that all sorts of sites are getting the unnatural link notification.
                    Define all - natural ones too?

                    There are people who took your advice and used them and now wish they didn't listen to you, case closed. Now you are making more "suggestions" and I for one wouldn't listen to anything you have to say.
                    And there are people who I told not to use a certain other service like the one the OP says he used and they did and are now regretting it - case closed. See how easy that was? I am sorry you are confused though. I didn't make any suggestion in this thread for you. I made it for the others reading this thread. What you want to do with your service is your own business. As I constantly have to remind you we talk SEO in this section and theres not a thing you can do about the reality that auto spinning content on a link source page is terrible poor SEO especially nowadays. No once cares about your service in particular we are talking basic SEO. You object at your own peril because most of the people who know SEO will just pass on any service that says auto spinning on sites linking to their money sites is a good strategy now. They know that the service provider saying something so utterly ridiculous doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

                    Meanwhile you are still fibbing like I was on some major push suggesting BMR - what I really suggested to people is that they build their own networks and guess what - no one in this thread is expressing regretting that now are they?

                    You can't touch a thing that I said which is why you skip the SEO talk pertinent to this thread and try to talk about other things because everyone reading this thread knows its utter nonsense to object to something so basic and common sense that auto spinning content will make the pages look unnatural to Google.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Thats what you say. Like you I have no requirement to take your word for it. The Op says otherwise, is totally believable with no vested interest in lying and there ARE verifiably pages there no longer indexed.:rolleyes:
                      I can show the links that we did not create, this is evidence that nest was mistaken. There are blog comments that we did not create, he didn't mention them in the OP. What else has he forgotten? I have no doubt that he is not lying but he has been incomplete with the data.
                      Furthermore I see no denials of your links pointing at his site . All there is is denial(Without evidence) that that was the reason for the notice and the tanking of his site but thats to be expected.
                      I am not claiming that our links DIDN'T cause the message. What I am saying is that it may have been something else as we were not the only source of links. Also he had more sites hit with the message that he freely admits that we had nothing to do with. They were hit all at once with the "unnatural link" message. It seems to me that it would be reasonable to assume that perhaps it was something other than our links that caused the message. This seems pretty simple Mike.
                      Define all - natural ones too?
                      Define natural.
                      And there are people who I told not to use a certain other service like the one the OP says he used and they did and are now regretting it - case closed.
                      See, this is famous Mike Anthony. OP had 15 sites hit with the message and only two of them we worked on but it HAS to be our links causing the email. Our links must be so bad that they nailed all of OP's sites even when they weren't linked to his other sites. Tell me what happened to his other sites that we had nothing to do with?
                      Meanwhile you are still fibbing like I was on some major push suggesting BMR - what I really suggested to people is that they build their own networks and guess what - no one in this thread is expressing regretting that now are they?
                      So you didn't speak positively about BMR? Come on Mike, you did. It got smacked and now you talk like it never happened. BMR had a huge footprint and this is why I never messed with it. Maybe I said so before the meltdown but I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll search....

                      I don't really care to discuss SEO with you all I'm trying to do here is set the record straight about the OPs experiences. Let me outline....

                      OP had two sites that we built backlinks for...

                      He had 13 others that we had nothing to do with....

                      All 15 got the message that "unnatural" links have been detected....

                      Mike Anthony assumes that our links are the cause of the message....

                      Logic takes a step backward....

                      To me, it seems a logical conclusion that there is something else at play here other than what Michael is trying to suggest.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                        I am not claiming that our links DIDN'T cause the message. What I am saying is that it may have been something else as we were not the only source of links. Also he had more sites hit with the message that he freely admits that we had nothing to do with. They were hit all at once with the "unnatural link" message. It seems to me that it would be reasonable to assume that perhaps it was something other than our links that caused the message. This seems pretty simple Mike.
                        It does to me. Its really simple Marc. I simply did the backlink check and there were mostly article sites (like the ones you provide just like he said) staring at his site (some very much mysteriously no longer in the index). Doesn't matter what was on his other sites. Since thats mostly what is on THIS site then the very least you could do is stop arguing with me and what you allege I said about BMR ( over building your own network which you of all people know is my recommendation for months now) and HELP YOUR CLIENT by removing the ones that you can.

                        See, this is famous Mike Anthony. OP had 15 sites hit with the message and only two of them we worked on but it HAS to be our links causing the email. Our links must be so bad that they nailed all of OP's sites even when they weren't linked to his other sites.
                        Don't be silly Marc. What? are you going to get the two sites reconsidered by telling Google to look at the link profile of the other sites? Do you Know ANYTHING ABOUT reconsideration requests? To get these sites back on track you are going to have to look at what links are pointing to THIS SITE. Yes Famous Mike Anthony did a backlink check on THIS site and saw deindexed article pages and other article links to this site . So famous Mike Anthony took a look at the link profile on this site because get this - the OP gave this site and thats what this site mostly has LIKE IT OR NOT.

                        BMR had a huge footprint and this is why I never messed with it. Maybe I said so before the meltdown but I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll search..
                        BE my guest but again do it after you help the guy remove the links. You are not going to convince anyone of the regulars here that Famous Mike Anthony (lol) does't recommend building your own network over renting. Its been in my sig for months upon months . I am most known for that and I am even accused of talking about it too much.

                        So step to the plate and be of service to the OP rather than try and convince everyone he is leaving things out. remove the links because guess what ? until you do my secondary suggestion of BMR several months ago is still looking FAR BETTER than what he used because they are not arguing with their clients and pointing everywhere but at themselves. They are removing the links regardless.

                        So either way Famous Mike Anthony's suggestions are beating the article submission service he used in customer service going and coming until you help your client and remove the links.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

    It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

      It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
      That's what I been trying to tell people lol. Everybody's stuck on ranking for 2 and 3 word phrases.
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    • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

      It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
      Interesting point of view. You are sure right about Google's intentions there. Might get more into your approach when I got more time on my hands, just to experience it myself. Anyway your remarks have been noted. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

      It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
      1-- How do you get "train" Google Bot to revisit your site often and

      2-- It is a challenge for local business web sites to get "natural" 3rd party backlinks when most of their visitors don't have a site of their own
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    • Profile picture of the author jazbo
      Yep, build a hub site. it's a long term strategy that I advocated years ago. Unfortunately most people want it NOW...and fail.

      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

      It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Beardo
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.
      Been doing this for the last year on two sites and seeing really positive results. The sites have been totally penguin panda whatever update proof.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Beardo View Post

        Been doing this for the last year on two sites and seeing really positive results. The sites have been totally penguin panda whatever update proof.
        As have my sites. People tend to overthink things. I spend my time on content and actually look forward to updates!
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        • Profile picture of the author dakar
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          As have my sites. People tend to overthink things. I spend my time on content and actually look forward to updates!
          Same here. However, I'm upset that one of my main competitors didn't get hit by the latest EMD update. They have a ton of small, 10 page EMD sites, that never get updated, filled with affiliate links, and just recently created about 6 months ago. They still rank on page 1 for alot of high traffic keywords.

          I asked this in another thread, but is there any way that i can report them to Google? Seems unfair that they outrank someone like me who's put in a lot of time and money, in creating a large site with daily updated content.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

    Recently I have seen couple of my sites lose rankings but thought nothing of it, normally they always bounce back. Today all sites received the unnatural backlinks message. One site in question only had 372 backlinks from Matt Laclear's drip feed service while the others only had few thousand from various sources. Visitors have drop down to almost none since yesterday and so has my income. I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google. This even has me thinking of returning to law enforcement something I hate doing but I am really good at it.
    I am confused.

    In another thread that you started, you said "I only backlink the homepage using article marketing ,social bookmarks, forum profiles etc. I don't even try to rank these sites for any keyword, all my traffic come from long tail searches." The implication was that you did very little backlinking and depended on long tail keywords/keyphrases to get traffic.

    Now, you are talking about unnatural backlinking and being penalized for it.

    Which thread is correct?

    Do you backlink like most IMers say to do and was your success (ranking in search engines) due to the backlinking?

    Or, unlike most IMers, do you rely on long tail keywords/keyphrases to get traffic?

    As much as I thought that your long tail keyword method was great and productive, it now appears that backlinking ("few thousand from various sources") was just as important, if not more important, than long tail keywords/keyphrases.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior View Post

      I am confused.

      In another thread that you started, you said "I only backlink the homepage using article marketing ,social bookmarks, forum profiles etc. I don't even try to rank these sites for any keyword, all my traffic come from long tail searches." The implication was that you did very little backlinking and depended on long tail keywords/keyphrases to get traffic.

      Now, you are talking about unnatural backlinking and being penalized for it.

      Which thread is correct?

      Do you backlink like most IMers say to do and was your success (ranking in search engines) due to the backlinking?

      Or, unlike most IMers, do you rely on long tail keywords/keyphrases to get traffic?

      As much as I thought that your long tail keyword method was great and productive, it now appears that backlinking ("few thousand from various sources") was just as important, if not more important, than long tail keywords/keyphrases.
      I doubt the links I built were the key to my success. Some of my sites are more than a year old so when I say a few thousand links from various sources, this was done over the course of over a year's time. There were times that I stop backliking for months and still earned a good income. The fact that these sites only have a few thousand links but still got hit surprises me.

      Think about it 2,000 divided by 12months equals 166, if all I did was build 166 a month on average that is a pretty slow and steady pace, and these were low quality links that didn't effect my rankings much. My income was earn from long tail alone, backlinks have little to do with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I build my sites in a tree structure. I start at the tiny branches (the very long tail) first and gradually work my way up to the tree trunk (difficult major sub-niche). Using this strategy of authority site building, I can achieve good rankings with article marketing, guest posting, and with comments on relevant blogs (no, I don't mean "hey, nice blog, thanks for sharing"). It's also worth looking at your competition's link profile for more ideas.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

      I build my sites in a tree structure. I start at the tiny branches (the very long tail) first and gradually work my way up to the tree trunk (difficult major sub-niche).
      This is the right way to do things. However, most IMers try to shortcut it by targeting the high-comp/high-traffic keywords and then using backlink schemes (and they are schemes) to build authority.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

        This is the right way to do things. However, most IMers try to shortcut it by targeting the high-comp/high-traffic keywords and then using backlink schemes (and they are schemes) to build authority.
        Thanks. Yes, we are in total agreement. You get newbies who google "highest paying adsense niches" and go for "texas DUI attorney" for the $50 click. They put up a crappy one, two, or three page site like this:

        texas-dui-attorney.crap

        articles:
        texas dui attorney
        best texas dui attorney
        find texas dui attorney

        Then, they go to fiverr and buy the 100,000 best SEO links gig and in 2 weeks post a thread like this on the main forum: "IM Doesn't Work! I'm Giving UP!"

        Then they come back here because they told all their friends to click on their ads and post this: "Google Adsense Account Banned for no Reason!"
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

          Thanks. Yes, we are in total agreement. You get newbies who google "highest paying adsense niches" and go for "texas DUI attorney" for the $50 click. They put up a crappy one, two, or three page site like this:

          texas-dui-attorney.crap

          articles:
          texas dui attorney
          best texas dui attorney
          find texas dui attorney

          Then, they go to fiverr and buy the 100,000 best SEO links gig and in 2 weeks post a thread like this on the main forum: "IM Doesn't Work! I'm Giving UP!"

          Then they come back here because they told all their friends to click on their ads and post this: "Google Adsense Account Banned for no Reason!"
          Lol it's not just newbies I have had a few warriors tell me that I should be building mini sites to make more money instead of the 100 page sites I normally make.
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          • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            Lol it's not just newbies I have had a few warriors tell me that I should be building mini sites to make more money instead of the 100 page sites I normally make.
            You can use the "churn and burn" approach. It works like this:

            1) Find a profitable niche "solar battery charger" (just an example here).
            2) Write a super long article about it (1,000 words or so).
            3) Use SEOpressor (I think that's what it's called) and SEO the article.
            4) Publish the site, go to fiverr and do the 150 social bookmark gig. Once complete, do a massive SENuke (or equivalent) link bomb.
            5) Ride on Google's "new content bonus" for about 4-6 weeks.
            6) Make a few hundred $$$ with affiliate promos. (do NOT do this with Adsense and do NOT use Google Analytics).
            7) Watch site crash and burn and forget about it for at least 12 months.
            8) Throw some links at it. If it revives, keep it. If not, don't renew the domain.

            And that's it. You keep building sites all the time, but if you're organized and outsourced, you can make some big $$$ with this.
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            • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
              Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

              You can use the "churn and burn" approach. It works like this:

              1) Find a profitable niche "solar battery charger" (just an example here).
              2) Write a super long article about it (1,000 words or so).
              3) Use SEOpressor (I think that's what it's called) and SEO the article.
              4) Publish the site, go to fiverr and do the 150 social bookmark gig. Once complete, do a massive SENuke (or equivalent) link bomb.
              5) Ride on Google's "new content bonus" for about 4-6 weeks.
              6) Make a few hundred $$$ with affiliate promos. (do NOT do this with Adsense and do NOT use Google Analytics).
              7) Watch site crash and burn and forget about it for at least 12 months.
              8) Throw some links at it. If it revives, keep it. If not, don't renew the domain.

              And that's it. You keep building sites all the time, but if you're organized and outsourced, you can make some big $$$ with this.

              You are right. This can work. That said, it requires much more effort overall. It is effort where many IMers fail unfortunately. I actually use this on a small handful of sites.
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            • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
              Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

              You can use the "churn and burn" approach. It works like this:

              1) Find a profitable niche "solar battery charger" (just an example here).
              2) Write a super long article about it (1,000 words or so).
              3) Use SEOpressor (I think that's what it's called) and SEO the article.
              4) Publish the site, go to fiverr and do the 150 social bookmark gig. Once complete, do a massive SENuke (or equivalent) link bomb.
              5) Ride on Google's "new content bonus" for about 4-6 weeks.
              6) Make a few hundred $$$ with affiliate promos. (do NOT do this with Adsense and do NOT use Google Analytics).
              7) Watch site crash and burn and forget about it for at least 12 months.
              8) Throw some links at it. If it revives, keep it. If not, don't renew the domain.

              And that's it. You keep building sites all the time, but if you're organized and outsourced, you can make some big $$$ with this.
              LOL! I can vouch for the "new content bonus" followed by the "crash and burn".

              Sometimes I wonder if the freshness update is more significant than they led us to believe...
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                ^^ but you don't know the exact metrics. Most major online publishers do keyword/trend research, no matter how well they know their niches.

                I guess what I'm saying is this: keyword research isn't bad. Being an expert on a topic AND knowing SERP trends and other issues is actually a huge advantage which should be utilized if you are in this to make money (in the end). This doesn't apply for purely hobby sites, but even then some of the top bloggers do keyword/trend research when editing their posts/articles. There is nothing "evil" about it.

                But of course if you associate keyword research with something negative (whatever it may be) and find that it is stopping your progress - by all means do what your heart is telling you to do! Get shit done - whatever it takes.
                Keyword research is not bad or evil, I just feel like if your passionate about your niche, than mostly likely you have a ton of knowledge on the topic.

                When you write naturally , you will incorporate certain keywords without even trying, like with the body building example, it would be extremely hard to have a site on bodybuilding without mentioning super sets,diet,gain muscle,lose weight,clean bulk,dirty bulk,cheat meals,carbs,protein,good fats etc, so why would I need keyword software to tell me what I already know.

                Beside even is I know gain muscle get's 10,000 searches a month, it doesn't mean I'll rank for it. Better to build your site from the ground up, talk about things other site don't, like hw the hell are you suppose to eat 6 meals a day and have a 9 to 5, or how can you drink the recommended amount of water without having to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes, these are topics that get over looked, yet are very relevant.

                No keyword software can tell me that, that is the reason why I say I'm only making sites based on my own experience,interest and passions.

                Originally Posted by humili View Post

                There must be some tools and methods you are using at the moment that is not ideal in the eyes of Google.

                To build your site back to its former state, you seriously might want to have a look at your onpage factor and the way you go about building backlinks.

                If you are using many automated tools at the moment, it might be a good move to shift to some tools that is search engine friendly and "natural" to the search engines.
                This thread is very old, I been stop backlinking.
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        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
          Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

          Thanks. Yes, we are in total agreement. You get newbies who google "highest paying adsense niches" and go for "texas DUI attorney" for the $50 click. They put up a crappy one, two, or three page site like this:

          texas-dui-attorney.crap

          articles:
          texas dui attorney
          best texas dui attorney
          find texas dui attorney

          Then, they go to fiverr and buy the 100,000 best SEO links gig and in 2 weeks post a thread like this on the main forum: "IM Doesn't Work! I'm Giving UP!"

          Then they come back here because they told all their friends to click on their ads and post this: "Google Adsense Account Banned for no Reason!"
          Hahahaha....I literally did LOL. This is too funny. That's exactly what happens. Although, I do agree with Nest28 - you do see "experienced" members touting the same things.
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

            You can use the "churn and burn" approach. It works like this:

            1) Find a profitable niche "solar battery charger" (just an example here).
            2) Write a super long article about it (1,000 words or so).
            3) Use SEOpressor (I think that's what it's called) and SEO the article.
            4) Publish the site, go to fiverr and do the 150 social bookmark gig. Once complete, do a massive SENuke (or equivalent) link bomb.
            5) Ride on Google's "new content bonus" for about 4-6 weeks.
            6) Make a few hundred $$$ with affiliate promos. (do NOT do this with Adsense and do NOT use Google Analytics).
            7) Watch site crash and burn and forget about it for at least 12 months.
            8) Throw some links at it. If it revives, keep it. If not, don't renew the domain.

            And that's it. You keep building sites all the time, but if you're organized and outsourced, you can make some big $$$ with this.
            I'll have to try this one day soon.

            Originally Posted by biggcapp View Post

            Nest 28 - remember when you are making new backlinks to diversify your anchor text. There are a lot of sites that have the same long tail anchor that are getting hit. This is one of the things google is checking for.

            Think organically when diversifying. IF someone is sharing your link they are not going to anchor with "cheap car insurance" they are going to anchor with "click here" or "go here" or "http://www.yoururl.com"

            I use longtails, misspellings and here, click here, heres the link etc. I have not been penalized yet.

            If you are on spot 50, then you are still in the game, but think about getting an authority site going even if it's on law enforcement or something that you know. Write an article or post everyday, before you know that site alone will be bringing in 30 or 40 per day on autopilot. Then start another. Update the first one on Saturdays, and update the new on everyday. Then another, and another. It's a slow grind brotha but a profitable one in the end.

            Good Luck!
            -Capp
            I recently bought 7 new domain names and planed on making these large authority sites. I will build one at a time without to much backlinking and see where it goes.
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            • Profile picture of the author Carl Brown
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post




              I recently bought 7 new domain names and planed on making these large authority sites. I will build one at a time without to much backlinking and see where it goes.
              I think the strategy you've begun is a good one. That's what I'm focusing on. I get a LOT of visitors from these long tail "keywords/phrases" that I didn't even plan for. I think your 100 page limit is too small though. I think this is the advantage of an authority site with a thousand pages.

              I think the era of targeting just one keyword and 5 page sites and forcing your way to #1 with massive backlinks is over. Google told us what they want. We can either give them what they want or constantly try to find shortcuts.
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  • Profile picture of the author biggcapp
    Nest 28 - remember when you are making new backlinks to diversify your anchor text. There are a lot of sites that have the same long tail anchor that are getting hit. This is one of the things google is checking for.

    Think organically when diversifying. IF someone is sharing your link they are not going to anchor with "cheap car insurance" they are going to anchor with "click here" or "go here" or "http://www.yoururl.com"

    I use longtails, misspellings and here, click here, heres the link etc. I have not been penalized yet.

    If you are on spot 50, then you are still in the game, but think about getting an authority site going even if it's on law enforcement or something that you know. Write an article or post everyday, before you know that site alone will be bringing in 30 or 40 per day on autopilot. Then start another. Update the first one on Saturdays, and update the new on everyday. Then another, and another. It's a slow grind brotha but a profitable one in the end.

    Good Luck!
    -Capp
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  • Profile picture of the author The A
    My case is kid of different. I've got more than 4 hundred backlinks in three weeks (coming from AR, UAW, MAN, Article submission, senuke). I don't receive any unnatural linking message or whatsoever. yet, my website is still nowhere in the search result. Any idea?

    Someone teold me maybe google forget to send me that message, maybe it's their plan not to tell me and they kept me at the bottom position. Seriously, I think that's ridiculous but you guys have some thoughts?

    BTW, i use the same linking strategy for my other website and now it's on top three.
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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    nest28,

    When you build your new sites will the articles/posts be a bunch of words adding up to 500 words per post vs will they be genuine information that people learn from?

    Here's where I'm coming from: Google is saying they want the sites their search engine points to be sites with information. If you sites have real information real people will want to read your stuff, so they will come from all over the place to read your stuff. And if your stuff is real information they'll do things like copy your posts, or tell their friends or do other things people do when they see something they like.

    I have come to the conclusion that most IMers try to do things which emulate popularity. But what they do is fake popularity. F'rinstance, lots and lots of bought backlinks is faking popularity. The way fake information attracts backlinks is different from the way real information attracts backlinks. Google is finally figuring that out and doing something about it.

    If you have websites about nursing education (for example) and people who really want to learn to be nurses read your stuff and learn from it, they will reward you. If you have a site about nursing education full of spam eventuallly no one will come. And Google will pick up the clues that your site is spammy. You won't be able to hide your spamminess for long.

    Make your site say something and mean something. If your site is spam on toast eventually Big G will figure that out. All the backlinks in the world won't help you.

    edit: OK, I looked at your psychiatric nurse site. The posts I read were decent. None of the ones I read were spam, I'll give you that. You do give real information. Here are two problems I saw:

    1. Many of the articles had good information, but the information was not focused on psych nursing. You sprinkle in too many posts about other kinds of nursing. If I want to learn about psych nursing I would give up after a while. You should have a clearer path for article A to article B etc etc so someone can learn about psych nursing, not alternatives.

    2. I'll betcha your backlinks have almost nothing to do with psych nursing. A waste of money.

    Also, be aware that there are only some many people interested in psych nursing, so you will never have a HUGE readership.

    How I would improve your site:

    1. Ask people for comments. Make it very obvious you want comments. Each comment is a (good) backlink. And it encourages a return visit.

    2. Put a map (or something like a map) on page 1 to direct people from article to article in a reasonable sequence. Otherwise people will get lost in the soup. I'll bet few people read post #62. If they don't know what gems of information they will find in post #62 they'll never wander that far.

    3. Give people who come to your blog who genuinely want to learn about psych nursing something to do. F'rinstance give them names and addresses of schools. Offer them help with resumes etc. Anything to keep them coming back.

    IOW your site is good, but it's too easy to get lost. And all those fake backlinks don't help.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by domainarama View Post

      nest28,

      When you build your new sites will the articles/posts be a bunch of words adding up to 500 words per post vs will they be genuine information that people learn from?

      Here's where I'm coming from: Google is saying they want the sites their search engine points to be sites with information. If you sites have real information real people will want to read your stuff, so they will come from all over the place to read your stuff. And if your stuff is real information they'll do things like copy your posts, or tell their friends or do other things people do when they see something they like.

      I have come to the conclusion that most IMers try to do things which emulate popularity. But what they do is fake popularity. F'rinstance, lots and lots of bought backlinks is faking popularity. The way fake information attracts backlinks is different from the way real information attracts backlinks. Google is finally figuring that out and doing something about it.

      If you have websites about nursing education (for example) and people who really want to learn to be nurses read your stuff and learn from it, they will reward you. If you have a site about nursing education full of spam eventuallly no one will come. And Google will pick up the clues that your site is spammy. You won't be able to hide your spamminess for long.

      Make your site say something and mean something. If your site is spam on toast eventually Big G will figure that out. All the backlinks in the world won't help you.

      edit: OK, I looked at your psychiatric nurse site. The posts I read were decent. None of the ones I read were spam, I'll give you that. You do give real information. Here are two problems I saw:

      1. Many of the articles had good information, but the information was not focused on psych nursing. You sprinkle in too many posts about other kinds of nursing. If I want to learn about psych nursing I would give up after a while. You should have a clearer path for article A to article B etc etc so someone can learn about psych nursing, not alternatives.

      2. I'll betcha your backlinks have almost nothing to do with psych nursing. A waste of money.

      Also, be aware that there are only some many people interested in psych nursing, so you will never have a HUGE readership.

      How I would improve your site:

      1. Ask people for comments. Make it very obvious you want comments. Each comment is a (good) backlink. And it encourages a return visit.

      2. Put a map (or something like a map) on page 1 to direct people from article to article in a reasonable sequence. Otherwise people will get lost in the soup. I'll bet few people read post #62. If they don't know what gems of information they will find in post #62 they'll never wander that far.

      3. Give people who come to your blog who genuinely want to learn about psych nursing something to do. F'rinstance give them names and addresses of schools. Offer them help with resumes etc. Anything to keep them coming back.

      IOW your site is good, but it's too easy to get lost. And all those fake backlinks don't help.
      Thank you for all the good advice, this particular site was not complete. The rest of my sites are 100 pages ,with videos, a forum, contact me etc. Each site has drop down boxes to for better navigation.

      One such tab would look something like this

      Schools
      colleges
      online programs
      exams
      degrees

      Inside these articles you would find names,phone numbers and locations of the best places to attend school. I tried to address every aspect of my niches as best I could. I want the extra mile for my visitors while my competition usually had 10 page sites, with a bunch of schools listed at the bottom.

      I think my biggest mistake was building bunch low quality backlinks not my sites them selves. The nurse site was nowhere near finish.
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    If all your sites are being deindexed and also the internal pages, now's the time to move them to either another blogspot page or start building wordpress blogs. The good thing Google will penalize the page not the content, if that makes sense. As the url is what has incurred the penalty.

    I know you probably hate the idea, but you'll have to start from scratch and take that money you've made and start to invest promoting your content on another site. Just remember, paid links are a no no, paying someone to help build links on freely available sources like article directories, social bookmarks etc is not a penalizing offence.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by BigNorm View Post

      If all your sites are being deindexed and also the internal pages, now's the time to move them to either another blogspot page or start building wordpress blogs. The good thing Google will penalize the page not the content, if that makes sense. As the url is what has incurred the penalty.

      I know you probably hate the idea, but you'll have to start from scratch and take that money you've made and start to invest promoting your content on another site. Just remember, paid links are a no no, paying someone to help build links on freely available sources like article directories, social bookmarks etc is not a penalizing offence.
      The rankings drop but they are still indexed
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  • Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

    Recently I have seen couple of my sites lose rankings but thought nothing of it, normally they always bounce back. Today all sites received the unnatural backlinks message. One site in question only had 372 backlinks from Matt Laclear's drip feed service while the others only had few thousand from various sources. Visitors have drop down to almost none since yesterday and so has my income. I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google. This even has me thinking of returning to law enforcement something I hate doing but I am really good at it.



    the psychiatric nurse practitioner

    Edit: My girlfriend just ask me did I use bmr and I forgot I did have just a couple links from them on all my sites. I signed up for them a day before they close their doors and thought I had gotten lucky lol.
    So did I. My website's ranking suddenly drop significantly after building backlinks with seenuke service. Did you get the notice officially from Google? Did they send it to your email?
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by maurisrx View Post

      So did I. My website's ranking suddenly drop significantly after building backlinks with seenuke service. Did you get the notice officially from Google? Did they send it to your email?
      The notice came via google webmaster tools.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dazzlecat
      Originally Posted by maurisrx View Post

      So did I. My website's ranking suddenly drop significantly after building backlinks with seenuke service. Did you get the notice officially from Google? Did they send it to your email?
      That's what happened to one of my sites. It was stuck on the 8th position for about two months. So I got the great idea of hiring an SEOnukeX fivver job and getting some back links to my site. And it wasn't even a ton of back links, I think it was 200 spread out over a one month period.

      Within one month of doing that service my site started jumping around and then disappeared. It hasn't been spotted in the top 100 since. Which sucks. I should have just built my back links naturally. Learned the hard way. (This happened last year, way before Panda so I never recvd an email.)

      But the thing about building back links is that i don't even know if any of them are working, which ones are doing any good, and how many of them i need to build. so i'm just throwing things at them and hoping something sticks.

      I wish there was a specific plan that I could follow that would tell me what i need to do each and every day to make sure I was not wasting my time. anybody know of anything like that?
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  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    If I export these sites and bought a new domain and deleted the old blogs would google look at the content on the new sites as duplicate or would they realize that the old site was deleted.
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    Not sure if it's possible with blogspot, but can you set up redirects? Just out curiosity, did the main url get penalized or the entire site? The reason I ask is a friend had the same problem, but it was only his home page that got hit, the rest of the site kept it's rankings.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by BigNorm View Post

      Not sure if it's possible with blogspot, but can you set up redirects? Just out curiosity, did the main url get penalized or the entire site? The reason I ask is a friend had the same problem, but it was only his home page that got hit, the rest of the site kept it's rankings.
      Seems like the entire site was hit, the lowest position on my site is 42 and thats for a term I once rank 5 just couple days ago.

      My plan was to export all blogs, than delete them. Buy new domains and import my posts to those new sites. My only question is after deleting my blogs how long would it take google to realize they are gone, meaning how long after deleting them would they stop showing in the serps. After they no longer exist to google that is when I planned to import them to the new sites.

      Edit: since they are all related maybe I'll even make one large authority site with 1500 articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
    Your sudden loss in ranking seems really peculiar... Not to start any conspiracy theories here, but do you think this penalty is a result of your latest success story that you graciously shared with the community?

    One thing I learnt the hard way was to not broadcast my success, especially on the WF. You just never know who's reading these threads.

    The fact that you publicized one of your site's URLs probably didn't help as well!

    Anyway, you live and learn
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

      Your sudden loss in ranking seems really peculiar... Not to start any conspiracy theories here, but do you think this penalty is a result of your latest success story that you graciously shared with the community?

      One thing I learnt the hard way was to not broadcast my success, especially on the WF. You just never know who's reading these threads.

      The fact that you publicized one of your site's URLs probably didn't help as well!

      Anyway, you live and learn
      You know it's funny you mentioned that, because I got hit with that notice just a couple days after revealing my site, who knows maybe some hater reported it to google.

      I almost never say much on this forum until lately, I was only trying to help but honestly I just get people who want get smart,start arguments, false accusations etc. In the future I'll keep my big mouth shut
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        You know it's funny you mentioned that, because I got hit with that notice just a couple days after revealing my site, who knows maybe some hater reported it to google.

        I almost never say much on this forum until lately, I was only trying to help but honestly I just get people who want get smart,start arguments, false accusations etc. In the future I'll keep my big mouth shut
        Backlinks from spun content are definitely an issue. I think your assessment of what went wrong is accurate.
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        • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          Backlinks from spun content are definitely an issue. I think your assessment of what went wrong is accurate.
          BMR only allowed original content on their blogs and they were deindexed. Plus their customers received the unnatural links warning as well.

          Google has been finding links forever now and discounting the juice from them if they didn't like them. The way we handled it back then was to chalk it up to the Google dance and then continue on with our backlinking until the site returned from the fresh juice.

          The only difference this time around is that they send out the unnatural links warning in order to scare you from backlinking any further.

          But what would happen to your site rankings if you take their advice and give up on backlinking?

          Would there be any chance of your site hitting the money?

          If you quit backlinking you might as well cancel your hosting account and take your site down.
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          • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
            Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

            BMR only allowed original content on their blogs and they were deindexed. Plus their customers received the unnatural links warning as well.

            Google has been finding links forever now and discounting the juice from them if they didn't like them. The way we handled it back then was to chalk it up to the Google dance and then continue on with our backlinking until the site returned from the fresh juice.

            The only difference this time around is that they send out the unnatural links warning in order to scare you from backlinking any further.

            But what would happen to your site rankings if you take their advice and give up on backlinking?

            Would there be any chance of your site hitting the money?

            If you quit backlinking you might as well cancel your hosting account and take your site down.
            I agree, but I also agree the spun content links could be a problem.

            I have 372 backlinks showing in my webmaster tools for this site all of which are links his service built. This site is only 2 months old and I was using matt's service just to start some kind of link profile for the site in question.
            Maybe it's just me and feel free to disagree, but 372 links in just 2 months isn't natural, especially for a micro niche site that hardly gets many visitors.

            If it was a big niche/site which loads of people see everyday, then yeah, but for a site that hardly anyone visits and notices, it gets 372 links in 2 months, it wouldn't look natural to me either, it's obvious the backlinks have been made to manipulate the SERP's and Google aren't stupid.

            That's why you've been hit.

            Gotta be much smarter then that thesedays imo.

            The good thing about ranking for low comp keywords is that you shouldn't need too many links, especially not 372 links for a site no-one really visits and isn't on a mainstream subject, it's the opposite of natural and Google can notice that.

            Slow and steady wins the race over the course of 3-4 months, and not too many and a wide variety of them on related sites with different anchors, and if you're picking the right keyword then that should be enough, and if it isn't then carry on slow and steady.

            People want rankings straight away though when you need to slow things down and look long term. Too many (yes, even only 300 odd) in short amount of time for a site that isn't mainstream and that hardly anyone visits isn't natural and can bite ya in the arse, which is what I think has happened to you.

            I'm sure even popular sites that many people visit don't get 372 links back to them in 2 months, so what does it look like to Google that a site that hardly anyone visits suddenly got that many?

            Less is more, especialy with micro niche sites, build very slowly as you shouldn't need more then a few links a week, if that, for a site that not many people view and know about, otherwise it just isn't going to look natural at all.

            Yes it will take longer to rank, but that's what you gotta do thesedays.

            I would seriously advise you to stop using those type of services, those services might be good if you're an authority site already established as Google probably wouldn't bat an eyelid (but even then I wouldn't risk it), but when you're a tiny new site that no-one really visits then it's obviously going to look VERY un-natural, isn't it?

            Stop trying to take shortcuts and realise you need to make it look natural and that takes TIME...Slow is better.
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          • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
            Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

            BMR only allowed original content on their blogs and they were deindexed. Plus their customers received the unnatural links warning as well.

            Google has been finding links forever now and discounting the juice from them if they didn't like them. The way we handled it back then was to chalk it up to the Google dance and then continue on with our backlinking until the site returned from the fresh juice.

            The only difference this time around is that they send out the unnatural links warning in order to scare you from backlinking any further.

            But what would happen to your site rankings if you take their advice and give up on backlinking?

            Would there be any chance of your site hitting the money?

            If you quit backlinking you might as well cancel your hosting account and take your site down.
            I have never thought about the Google dance this way "great insight"

            You are right about backlinks. If you have a site and just let it sit there, it will not climb in the rankings while your competitors pass you by on the backlinking train.

            The goal is to get other people to naturally backlink to you but I haven't had anyone explain clearly how this is done.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brandon19811
          I bought a site that was ranked 1 on page one for a key term in the fat loss niche. I was getting 8000 visits per month. A few months later, I cannot even find the site to see it's rank. It had 7000 backlinks when I bought it off from someone on Flippa. The links are gone now. The person must have used a backlinking service. Google caught it. It sounds similar to your situation. I would never use a backlinking service. The results are temporary. The only time I could see using a backlink service would be to get a site highly ranked and then sell it off. I am not that kind of a person though, and that is not internet marketing. That would be just shady.
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by nellterry View Post

            @nest28 I've been following your original thread for a few days now, I was so impressed by your openness and I was getting ready to buy a domain and follow your strategy. I saw your new thread, though, and man I felt SO bad for you!!! After all your success, just gone in a sec?!!? Plus it was disheartening bc I was really excited to try your method.

            Lately I've been following all the algo changes and stuff REALLY closely in real-time to write news articles for my IM clients, so I know a bunch about the Panda updates right now, and I think the alg changes and the blog networks aren't responsible for the slap you experienced. I think maybe partially, or they would have caught up with you eventually. But I think someone saw your thread and reported you. It's the only thing that makes sense given that all your sites got hit at once right after you posted, but you were using diff services. Which SUCKS because you put yourself out there and shared your methods so everyone could learn...

            From here on out I'd keep whatever you're doing close to the chest. Don't give out any more site info or anything else that can harm you new stuff. You're too nice a guy, man. Best of luck.
            A couple of people have mentioned that it is possible that someone saw my thread and reported my site to google. Honestly it does seem strange that a couple days after I revealed one of my sites I got hit with a penalty.

            I always saw threads about how you can make money with adsense but no one would share those small details that mean the difference between success and failure. So I made it a point to share as much as possible so you guys would have a real chance at trying this method yourselves. Its to bad that some out there may have reported me just for trying to help.

            I mean all I did was tell people to build large informative sites that offer real value to the visitors. I have learn my lesson to not be so open in the future and also build links much slower among other things.

            I feel happy though, I've had so many people say that the other thread either help them or made them think about things in a whole different way. Starting over will be easy for me because I know exactly what to do. Just glad I wasn't banned from adsense as well although even if that would have happen I would have moved on to affiliate offers or amazon.

            Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

            Hmmm...you've pointed out some information from Yukon that I'm actually not familiar with :p.

            Not certain exactly what "saturating a niche" means but I think it just means to drive traffic from other sources besides Google...video marketing, social marketing, maybe even some article marketing, etc.

            But maybe you could explain further or maybe Yukon will if he drops by this thread again...
            I think he meant to exploit a keyword as much as possible.

            Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

            I would just like to say that I am using Matt LaClear's link building services on around 20 websites and none of them have gotten any messages that I know of and none of them have dropped in rankings... in fact they are all still climbing or remaining steady on page 1....

            One reason I probably haven't gotten a message is because I am not dumb enought to use google webmaster tools... that is an invitation to google saying "Hey, I am trying to SEO my websites, here is a list for you to keep an eye on"...

            I hope that Matt LaClear's service doesn't get dinged the way BMR and those others got hit because by far Matt has the best services out there for the price... Keep up the great work Matt!.. you have made me a lot of money!
            Your calling people dumb for using webmaster tools but your using the type of links the will get you penalized.

            Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

            Hi Nest28 exactly the same thing has happened to me !! So just for my 2 cents worth this is my plan pls nobody laugh...

            Ok start again and build a new army of sites ! hell i was a full time IMer surely i can get it back twice as quick right ? this time i know exactly what to do and have learnt from my mistakes.

            Ok google wants high quality material right ? better make sure i give it to them going to make all my pages at least 700 words and just natural on page SEO

            Going to add all the social siginal buttons using `digg digg` and join the free social service SYNND and get all the natural social signals from this service so thats facebook likes, social bookmarks, twitter, google + covered in a natural way and not a fiverr gig for 2million FB likes thats not good.

            Going to build quality web 2.0 articles , ezine articles ect ect all with original content point them to my sites pages and then blast them with scrapbox, AMR no way am i pointing any low quality links at my sites pages


            Going to find blogs in my niche and by hand i shall leave decent comments with links to my site.

            Thats my plan so nest28 thats all i`ve got mate maybe the top dogs here will rip my plan to bits but never mind coz there ant no way i`m going back to a JOB brother !! And hell with all the experience i`ve get bet ya this is going to be easy the second time round !!

            Jim,
            I feel you lol. Working for somebody else the next 35 years until I'm to old to work any longer is not a option. I thought about returning to work briefly when I first receive the unnatural links notice but that would be a mistake.

            The penalty just took me by surprise but after giving myself time to think I realized hey I'm my own boss, I was able to make a full time income before and I'll do it again.



            Make no mistake my methods are not flawed I simply made a mistake with the backlinks aspect of it. Hopefully everyone can not only learn from my success but also my failures
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            • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
              Last time I looked I wasn't the one looking for help because my websites got penalized...

              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              Your calling people dumb for using webmaster tools but your using the type of links the will get you penalized.
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

                Last time I looked I wasn't the one looking for help because my websites got penalized...
                lol I wont even bother to respond to that. You have yourself a great day , seems like you need it.
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        • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Build quality sites and target low competition keywords. I make several thousand dollars per month via Amazon and I do zero backlinking.

          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Nah, not really. I hate sniper sites. It takes so much more work but if you build authority sites that target hundreds (or thousands) of lower-comp terms, Google eventually starts to see you as an authority in that niche and, in turn, starts to rank you for more competitive related terms.

          It seems that most people forget that backlinking your own content was never something that Google wanted you to do. Google wants natural backlinks from third parties and they are finally getting around to addressing it.
          Totally agree with you here, wolfmmiii.

          Most of my own backlinks come from article directories and press releases, though I plan to get into guest blogging too...

          But the key is the quality content, added to on a regular basis.

          Originally Posted by IMSince2003 View Post

          I build my sites in a tree structure. I start at the tiny branches (the very long tail) first and gradually work my way up to the tree trunk (difficult major sub-niche). Using this strategy of authority site building, I can achieve good rankings with article marketing, guest posting, and with comments on relevant blogs (no, I don't mean "hey, nice blog, thanks for sharing"). It's also worth looking at your competition's link profile for more ideas.
          Thanks for the tip, IMSince2003. Great advice!

          Also, a comment about the churn and burn approach (forgot who posted that one right now):

          I'm wondering if you could prevent those sites from burning by adding a high quality article at least once or twice a week. Oh, and maybe a press release every now and then, from different services?

          That should keep it going a whole lot longer!

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        • Profile picture of the author Denise L Durband

          I just checked my webmaster tools for my sites and noticed that there were a small mass of missing links for me all of a sudden (well, in three days because that is when I checked it last, on the 26th) and I tried to look up why it might have happened, and I found this thread here at warrior forum, of which I have been a part of but never posted a thread as of yet - but what I am saying is that I am missing a bunch all of a sudden but I haven't gotten any warnings from Google. I would assume that they would contact me with my Gmail account? but I have not gotten one. Does it take time for them to send out warnings? I just don't understand why I lost as many as I did (235-->165, 310-->238, 234-->196. I used Social Monkee when I first started these 3/6 sites I have and these are the three I used them on. I can only guess that the culprit lies in those backlinks created thru SM. But I am just guessing. How do I find out? I think natural building is the way to go now. You can only use SM on each URL once anyway, so it was a service that became obsolete fast for 'building backlinks'. Probably a bad idea on my part but I was BRAND NEW when someone suggested it to me. It's hard to trust what someone teaches you, I have learned. Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions on how I find out why I lost those since I never got a warning from Google? I would imagine that I would have gotten a warning for each site but got none...

          Help a poor warriorette out fellow marketers...thanks.
          I will keep checking back to this thread for answers, and thanks in advance for taking the time out to help me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Love2Blog
          For new sites it's always wise to be cool and let them rest, it's not natural when brand new site suddenly gets hundreds of links.

          These days after Penguin and other Google updates it is crucial to get quality versus quantity links.

          It's better to get 5 high quality in content niche relevant links from an aged trusted site than to get 500 links from low quality sites.

          Anchor variation is a big part of Penguin and also linking to internal pages of your site is more important than ever only getting dofollow links to home page is a big red flag.

          VARIATION is key! Many different sources of links, with no more than 30% same anchors and slow natural building is best, and don't just use kw, use click here, this is, naked url and other generic anchors.

          Many blog networks were caught and deindexed recently and so using any of the them is risky, especially when one piece of spun content is submitted and published on many sites.

          Also Traffic Kaboom is the one blog network that I have read still works and has not been killed by G, you might want to check them out.

          I would never use Article Marketing Automation, SEO Link Vine, or ALN, all those are bad news now, I know from personal experience.

          One reason blog networks are harmful is that they send several versions of your spun content to the same site, and so for those webmasters that don't check or set auto post all articles you wind up having 4 versions of the same spun content on the same site, BIG RED FLAG!

          These days guest posting is probably the best and safest option with unique articles and varied links on many different sites, I know it's not too easy to achieve for many sites, but it works.

          Look into My Blog Guest for guest posting.

          Web 2.0, Doc sharing sites (scribd), US Free Ads, and niche relevant original articles are your best bets. For diversity, unique articles on Eszine, Go Articles, Amazines and other top article sites are good too, and they still bring traffic.

          Video submissions to the major video sites brings traffic and also link diversity.

          Twitter and Facebook take time, but work on getting fans and retweets, these are used as rank signals by Google, but more important they build a fan base for your site and more traffic.

          Be wary of any big promises from SEO's and their services, often people get hooked in with dreams of big money that come from rankings, SEO is not a quick fix magic pill, it takes time and constant attention and these days with Google's whims and their strong intent to wipe the Internet of affiliate sites, spam (at least what they consider to be spam) and crappy SEO it's more important than ever to not waste time or money on tactics that not only don't work but will harm you in the end.

          One thing to think about is the fact that when you hire an SEO to build links for you, you never really know where those links are coming from, and so you lose control, they are getting paid no matter what, it's your site that will suffer the consequences of crap links.

          And, most important the world of SEO is dynamic, things can change and they will, and so when you diversify your link profile, never put your eggs in one basket, keep building quality content on the site and work on the popularity of your site as propagated by real people then you are much more likely to withstand those changes and keep the site strong.

          Dealing with G is a real pain, their arrogance is never ending and they will continue to rid their search engine of what they consider low quality, so if you want their traffic you have to play their game.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Hey Nest...I checked your two tickets with us and saw that you have not upgraded to our new drip feed system. With the new system we allow up to 25 keywords instead of just five. Which makes it look far more natural to the crawlers.

    To get going in the new system just post on your tickets you would like to be upgraded to the new system and then we'll get it take care of for you.

    If you're looking for additional keywords try using Google's free keyword tool. Should do the trick for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    I think something people overlook is that if your backlinks are largely from sites that have nothing to do with your niche then you will also get the webmaster tools linking message.

    Google want relevant backlinks, not spammy low quality ones that have nothing to do with your niche, so even if you have never bought a backlink but put your link on blogs and stuff that have nothing to do with your site and did enough of them you are going to get punished.

    People need to move away from getting links from sites that have nothing to do with your niche just because its pr4 or a .edu link, Google will bite ya in the arse if you have enough of them and not enough relevant backlinks,

    When putting your link on another site you got to think how Google think, would the user going to your link be interested in it? If it's on a related niche site then chances are they could be, if it's not then they probably won't be and it's just spam in Google's eyes and un-natural, do enough of them and you will get bummed by Google.

    Gotta smarten up thesedays in SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Originally Posted by hicksdelight View Post

      I think something people overlook is that if your backlinks are largely from sites that have nothing to do with your niche then you will also get the webmaster tools linking message.
      That's not true. Google loves people to go viral. You can't control the
      niches (sites) that link to you. Crazy man. Put up a sign on your site
      saying, DON'T link to me unless you are in the niche!!!

      Social has changed everything. Crazy to think that getting social
      links, not even a niche, would somehow be bad.

      And look at all these sig links. Man these are golden on the WF.

      And who has another netmarketing forum that they are linking to?

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

        That's not true. Google loves people to go viral. You can't control the
        niches (sites) that link to you. Crazy man. Put up a sign on your site
        saying, DON'T link to me unless you are in the niche!!!

        Social has changed everything. Crazy to think that getting social
        links, not even a niche, would somehow be bad.

        And look at all these sig links. Man these are golden on the WF.

        And who has another netmarketing forum that they are linking to?

        Paul
        So are you saying having a link profile largely full of links that has nothing to do with your site/niche is ok and won't raise suspicion? It might be legit, but if it raises suspicion and Google look at it and it isn't legit, then only yourself to blame.

        I agree with your point, but it's sorta a little away from my point, which I may not have addressed properly.

        But if I do a site and 99% of my links are from non related sites with similiar anchors then it will raise suspicion, yes their are fine lines and exceptions, but my point I believe still stands that if your link profile is from sites unrelated to your niche with not much variety then it is not going to look good, especially if you're a new site with not many visitors.

        Their are different ways and exceptions to how you look at it, like examples you gave, but if you're building links then you don't want most of them on sites that are unrelated to your site just because they are high PR.

        You cannot control who links to you, but I was looking at it from a more building links yourself perspective...Some are okay, for sure, but you want to match it with relevant links and mix it up and don't rely on links from sites that are unrelated just because they are pr4 or whatever, it's going to raise suspicion that the site owner is doing exactly what Google doesn't want you to do.

        Fine lines and exception for everything, though.

        A lot of sites won't link out to an unrelated site, if I am doing a SEO blog I am not going to link out to a dog site,. for example. I will link out to posts that my readers might find interesting, i.e, another SEO related post...That's natural and what Google likes.

        But if my SEO blog has links coming in from a load of unrelated niches that have nought to do with my site subject, then it's going to raise suspicion, why would so many unrelated sites all with different subjects link to an SEO post? Sites generally stick to their niche, with some exceptions of course.

        Google know this, they know related niche links are king, not to say having some unrelated ones is bad, but if you're a new site and that's pretty much all you have, then why wouldn't it raise suspicion? Not to say their isn't a legit reason for it, but it will raise suspicion...Social media 'likes' are a completely different thing and certainly aren't bad at all, but they are different so same rules don't apply.

        If you see where I am coming from.

        As I say, I see what you are saying, but I am looking at it slightly differently, mine was more in relation to the OP, a brand new site on a low searched keyword, lots of links, maybe quite a few unrelated ones (I assumed)..Authority sites sure, but new sites? Again, might be legit reason, but it could also raise suspicion that might automatically trigger something.

        Just my opinion and way I look at it, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

    Recently I have seen couple of my sites lose rankings but thought nothing of it, normally they always bounce back. Today all sites received the unnatural backlinks message. One site in question only had 372 backlinks from Matt Laclear's drip feed service while the others only had few thousand from various sources. Visitors have drop down to almost none since yesterday and so has my income. I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google. This even has me thinking of returning to law enforcement something I hate doing but I am really good at it.



    the psychiatric nurse practitioner

    Edit: My girlfriend just ask me did I use bmr and I forgot I did have just a couple links from them on all my sites. I signed up for them a day before they close their doors and thought I had gotten lucky lol.
    I'm not sure which of the two sites you are claiming to only have our link services on but neither of them that I looked at have links built only by us.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I would also like to offer the following advice:

    1) Use the traffic you are getting to build a list. Your list will be unaffected by Google's algorithm changes.

    2) Post interesting and well written content on sites related to your niche that will get people to visit your site irrespective of your own site's rankings.

    3) If you've hit a goldmine, consider buying a banner ad on a few sites in your niche. Why not profit from their traffic?

    4) Last, but not least, consider creating new websites to rank for keywords for the sole purpose of funneling traffic to your money site. That way, if one or more of them gets slapped, it won't be catastrophic.

    Hope this helps. There are ways of insulating yourself at least somewhat from Google's influence if you plan carefully.
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  • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
    Nest28,

    Sorry to hear about your sites dropping in the rankings. However, like someone else mentioned earlier in this thread too I thought you relied heavily on long tail keyword phrases that were easy to rank for and hardly needed any backlinks at all to rank?

    But from what I gather you've lost ALL your rankings including the "easy" to rank for long tail keyword phrases because your entire sites got hit and not just certain pages of the sites because of low quality backlinks to the site?

    Might have been because of the low quality of backlinks and the fact that the vast majority of your backlinks were to the homepage and not spread out through the other pages of the site?

    And I'm sorry to hear that you won't be sharing as much about your sites to the WF; I completely understand because it's possible that someone may have sabotaged you.

    Anyway, thanks for all the great information you shared in your 2 threads about how you create large sites and monetize with Adsense...I will be doing the same thing but maybe modifying a few things including the backlinking strategy. Thanks again
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  • Profile picture of the author RevSEO
    Google's penalties/warnings are being rolled out for several reasons, the easiest of all of them is whether or not you used BMR. Google has the list of domains, since they deindexed the entire network, and thus have an easy time rolling out notifications accordingly.

    Now, most of the drops in rankings that people experienced were as a result of two main reasons.

    1. Backlink profile relied HEAVILY on BMR or ALN, or even equivalent deindexed networks. Since the networks were entirely deindexed this means that all of your backlinks disappeared as well. Thus, rankings plummeted.

    2. Artificial backlinks via lack of distribution. Google released a new algorithm update via link analysis in which they analyze links for artificially built links. Clearly they can't analyze each and every backlink that website creates. Instead they can look at backlinks from a statistical point of view. For example, having 100% DoFollow links is a clear indicator of artificial linkbuilding. Lack of anchor text diversity, another sign. Lack of backlinked URLs, assuming your site is more than a "thin" site you SHOULD have backlinks to internal posts/pages as well as your homepage. Websites that have links pointing to only the homepage (aside from very thin sites) is completely unnatural.

    When building links these days, you've gotta think in a diversified manner. Otherwise you are building your foundation on quicksand.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

      Nest28,

      Sorry to hear about your sites dropping in the rankings. However, like someone else mentioned earlier in this thread too I thought you relied heavily on long tail keyword phrases that were easy to rank for and hardly needed any backlinks at all to rank?

      But from what I gather you've lost ALL your rankings including the "easy" to rank for long tail keyword phrases because your entire sites got hit and not just certain pages of the sites because of low quality backlinks to the site?

      Might have been because of the low quality of backlinks and the fact that the vast majority of your backlinks were to the homepage and not spread out through the other pages of the site?

      And I'm sorry to hear that you won't be sharing as much about your sites to the WF; I completely understand because it's possible that someone may have sabotaged you.

      Anyway, thanks for all the great information you shared in your 2 threads about how you create large sites and monetize with Adsense...I will be doing the same thing but maybe modifying a few things including the backlinking strategy. Thanks again
      Even the long tail traffic is gone, I only backlink to these sites because I thought I had to. Looking back on it I probably could have just build a few links a week like someone else in the thread suggested. You are welcome and I thank you for always having positive things to say, I wish you good luck on all of your online endeavors.

      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Hey Nest...I checked your two tickets with us and saw that you have not upgraded to our new drip feed system. With the new system we allow up to 25 keywords instead of just five. Which makes it look far more natural to the crawlers.

      To get going in the new system just post on your tickets you would like to be upgraded to the new system and then we'll get it take care of for you.

      If you're looking for additional keywords try using Google's free keyword tool. Should do the trick for you.
      Thank you for taking notice and replying to this thread. I wont be doing any backlinking in future, and I wont it to be clear I never blame your service I simply stated that the majority of my links were from you guys. As for the blog comments mention maybe someone else is responsible.
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      • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Even the long tail traffic is gone, I only backlink to these sites because I thought I had to. Looking back on it I probably could have just build a few links a week like someone else in the thread suggested. You are welcome and I thank you for always having positive things to say, I wish you good luck on all of your online endeavors.
        Nest28,

        Were you ranking well and/or getting a good amount of traffic before you started backlinking? Or after you started backlinking?

        And were the vast majority of your backlinks going to the homepage and very little if any were going to the other pages?

        I think you'll back bounce from this and come out better than before especially when you learn what to do and more importantly what NOT to do .
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by SeoDemon View Post

          did u use link wheel services? sometimes it makes that happen
          On one site yes, the rest no.
          Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

          Nest28,

          Were you ranking well and/or getting a good amount of traffic before you started backlinking? Or after you started backlinking?

          And were the vast majority of your backlinks going to the homepage and very little if any were going to the other pages?

          I think you'll back bounce from this and come out better than before especially when you learn what to do and more importantly what NOT to do .
          I only backlink to homepage, I receive the same amount of traffic before I start backlinking. But I thought these sites needed backlinks in order to keep its current rankings. The articles that receive the most traffic didn't have a single link though.

          Edit: I will bounce back from this but I don't think my sites will. I have been reading all night about google's notice of unnatural links and most people that were hit never regained their rankings. Also I wouldn't bother trying to manually take down all my links that would be impossible.
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Does anyone know if this will work


            step 1. export blogs

            step 2. delete old blogs, wait until they no long show in serps

            step 3. import blogs to new domains

            Or even step 4. import all blogs onto same domain making it a large authority site with 1500 pages of content.

            Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              Does anyone know if this will work


              step 1. export blogs

              step 2. delete old blogs, wait until they no long show in serps

              step 3. import blogs to new domains

              Or even step 4. import all blogs onto same domain making it a large authority site with 1500 pages of content.

              Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.
              Here is what I would do before making any big decisions.

              First I would test If building new quality links will bring back the SERP rank on an existing easy to rank keyword/page.

              If the fresh quality backlinks don't work, take an easy to rank keyword that you once ranked in Google SERPs in the past. The easier the existing keyword phrase, the faster you'll see If your testing works.

              1) Save the existing easy to rank article/content (single page) to your desktop (txt file).

              2) Delete the old web page & make sure it's removed from Google SERPs. Make sure to save the deleted URL/keyword phrase & make sure you have proof that the page is removed from the SERPs.

              3) Once the old page is deindexed/removed from the SERPs, create a new web page with a slightly different URL than the old URL, make sure the new URL doesn't have the same URL someplace on the existing site.

              4) Paste the old article/content into the new web page.

              5) Hand build a few quality links to get Google looking at the new URL.

              6) Keep an eye on Google SERPs for that specific keyword phrase.

              The point here is to test If changing the URL will let you salvage the old content & keep that old content on the same domain while ranking again in Google SERPs.

              Also, don't mess around with any messages in GWT, especially while doing any testing.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Good suggestions Yukon. Still the simplest and easiest way for all of that to work (and even without it has a chance) - if the links that are suspect be removed. They are not helping him to rank and removing them would allow all those pointers you listed to work far faster plus with a reconsideration request can make the Op know he can go full steam ahead with his present site.
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          • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            I only backlink to homepage, I receive the same amount of traffic before I start backlinking. But I thought these sites needed backlinks in order to keep its current rankings. The articles that receive the most traffic didn't have a single link though.

            Edit: I will bounce back from this but I don't think my sites will. I have been reading all night about google's notice of unnatural links and most people that were hit never regained their rankings. Also I wouldn't bother trying to manually take down all my links that would be impossible.
            That's tough . You were already doing well and trying to do what you felt was right and being proactive in protecting your rankings and thus your earnings is possibly what caused the problems...

            You're handling yourself pretty well under the circumstances. And I'm very grateful that your sharing your experience...both the good and the bad...it's definitely appreciated by me and is becoming a real eye opener.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        I wont it to be clear I never blame your service I simply stated that the majority of my links were from you guys. As for the blog comments mention maybe someone else is responsible.
        I can confirm that you have article sites that are no longer indexed in your backlink profile. Any one that can use a backlink checker can see some of them. I wouldn't confirm that they are any article service in particular but I have no reason to believe you are lying about it either. Its no stain on any publicly available network since its happened to many public link services.

        So the evidence from your backlink profile matches what you have said and is very CLEARLY part of what Google is looking at. You clearly have some unnatural article links coming in that have been lost (and no longer show up in google's index) although only you can say where they were acquired.
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

          That's tough . You were already doing well and trying to do what you felt was right and being proactive in protecting your rankings and thus your earnings is possibly what caused the problems...

          You're handling yourself pretty well under the circumstances. And I'm very grateful that your sharing your experience...both the good and the bad...it's definitely appreciated by me and is becoming a real eye opener.
          You have got to be my best friend on here and I don't even know you lol

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I can confirm that you have article sites that are no longer indexed in your backlink profile. Any one that can use a backlink checker can see some of them. I wouldn't confirm that they are any article service in particular but I have no reason to believe you are lying about it either. Its no stain on any publicly available network since its happened to many public link services.

          So the evidence from your backlink profile matches what you have said and is vrly CLEARLY par t of what Google is looking at. You clearly have some unnatural article links coming in that have been lost (and no longer show up in google's index) although only you can say where they were acquired.
          I have no reason to lie, honestly once I saw what kind of links were being built I felt like I could have save my money and just used amr.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            I have no reason to lie, honestly once I saw what kind of links were being built I felt like I could have save my money and just used amr.
            Know what you mean. Anyway I know you are not lying - everything lines up with the facts that are available.
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            • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Know what you mean. Anyway I know you are not lying - everything lines up with the facts that are available.
              I don't think he is lying, he is merely mistaken. There are links in your report that we had nothing to do with. There are blog comments in there that I know we didn't create. What else has nest forgotten about? What other details are we missing?
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                I don't think he is lying, he is merely mistaken. There are links in your report that we had nothing to do with. There are blog comments in there that I know we didn't create. What else has nest forgotten about? What other details are we missing?
                I see you feel the need to defend your service but I don't blame you guys for any of this. 13 others sites also received the unnatural backlinks notice and you had nothing to do with those. As far as the nurse site is concerned I used bmr briefly so about 8 or 10 posts but those were deleted a month ago, I did 1 run of amr using a short list of 600 with only 84 links going live other than what I have mention above no link building was done. These blog comments you speak of was not done by me.


                I do apologize if you feel that I wrongly accused you of something. I was simply stating the fact that this site used your service that is all.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  I do apologize if you feel that I wrongly accused you of something. I was simply stating the fact that this site used your service that is all.
                  You did absolutely nothing wrong and the facts are the service provider has no evidence that it was anything else considering the amount of article submissions in your profile. Some service providers do not wish to admit that their links as unnatural looking as they may be could have caused it - thats all. One of the things I give BMR props for is coming straight out and being honest about it (although it took them some time).

                  You might not have known this but the truth is this is not the first thread where someone has stated article submission services caused their sites to tank. The idea that they are better than BMR was is totally ridiculous. Google is sending out notices and sites are dropping for all kinds of unnatural looking links. Those be the hard facts that some people just don't want to face or adjust to.

                  I've double checked and can once again confirm you had links on pages from domains that are no longer in Google's index at all.
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                • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  I do apologize if you feel that I wrongly accused you of something. I was simply stating the fact that this site used your service that is all.
                  I don't feel like you attacked our business in the slightest. Rock on and have a Happy Easter!
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  I do apologize if you feel that I wrongly accused you of something. I was simply stating the fact that this site used your service that is all.
                  Well since you have both Matt and Marc quite involved in this thread perhaps you can get something productive out of this thread and they can step to the plate and remove the links for you. For the site to have any hope at a reconsideration they will want for the links to be removed.

                  I can't see all the links that you can and I have not checked every single link that I can see but so far they have been almost all article sites. Removing those would go a long way toward getting a reconsideration request granted and help you salvage the site.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Well since you have both Matt and Marc quite involved in this thread perhaps you can get something productive out of this thread and they can step to the plate and remove the links for you. For the site to have any hope at a reconsideration they will want for the links to be removed.

                    I can't see all the links that you can and I have not checked every single link that I can see but so far they have been almost all article sites. Removing those would go a long way toward getting a reconsideration request granted and help you salvage the site.
                    Number one I can't remove the links we didn't create. Number two, OP had 13 sites get the notice that there has been unnatural links. Based upon the evidence at hand I don't think we caused the message in the first place.
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                    • Profile picture of the author nest28
                      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                      Number one I can't remove the links we didn't create. Number two, OP had 13 sites get the notice that there has been unnatural links. Based upon the evidence at hand I don't think we caused the message in the first place.
                      The way I see it google judges each individual site and while my other sites didn't have any links from your service the nurse site did. Now it may be true that there are more than just links from your service, honestly I never bothered to check because I haven't build any other than the ones I mention earlier. What I said was the majority of the links on the nurse site are from your service. In webmaster tools 372 links show up out of that number I see a few links from a amr run I did, other than that the rest is from your service except the blog comments you mention which I still have no idea where they came from.

                      Either way no one knows what trigger the message, who knows maybe a member of the spam team saw my thread and the fact that I revealed my site and decided to check it out.

                      I understand where you are coming from you have a business to run and me saying hey I got hit with a penalty and I used matt's service doesn't help any but my intentions was not to hurt your business but to share with others so they could avoid the same fate.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoDemon
    did u use link wheel services? sometimes it makes that happen
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  • Profile picture of the author footfoot
    Your links on the top row go to search/label/ instead of directly to the page/post.
    Increase your keyword density somewhat.
    Backlink directly to your internal pages i.e. salary info, instead of homepage as your competing with your intenal page for that keyword.
    More backlinking is needed. I like pyramid links on fiverr.
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  • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
    Maybe you can still get your sites to rank well but this time better backlinks (I know easier said than done...and it might be a bit more time consuming/expensive).

    Because if Google had a problem with your sites wouldn't they have just de-indexed your sites not to mention banned you from Adsense since that's how you're monetizing the sites?

    Hopefully a Warrior with a lot of SEO knowledge can weigh in on whether you can get the rankings and thus the traffic back to your sites.

    A few Warriors you might want to get advice from that I know are the real deal are Mike Anthony, Yukon, and Mike Friedman...Mike Anthony already kind of weighed in but check out his posts...the guy knows his stuff.

    And Yukon is EXTREMELY helpful and if you contact him he'll give you really good and sound advice...in fact I just checked out a post he wrote not too long ago...take from it what you will:

    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    The only thing that you'll get is short term SERP bounce from crappy backlinks, so what's the big deal?

    50 hand built PR5+ backlinks will counter the silly link blast of profiles, & bring the page right back to page #1 in the SERPs.

    As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.

    So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

    It's not a penalty!
    And that post can be found at the following thread which I found pretty interesting:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...backlinks.html

    But if I'm wrong about something please correct me...
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

      Maybe you can still get your sites to rank well but this time better backlinks (I know easier said than done...and it might be a bit more time consuming/expensive).

      Because if Google had a problem with your sites wouldn't they have just de-indexed your sites not to mention banned you from Adsense since that's how you're monetizing the sites?

      Hopefully a Warrior with a lot of SEO knowledge can weigh in on whether you can get the rankings and thus the traffic back to your sites.

      A few Warriors you might want to get advice from that I know are the real deal are Mike Anthony, Yukon, and Mike Friedman...Mike Anthony already kind of weighed in but check out his posts...the guy knows his stuff.

      And Yukon is EXTREMELY helpful and if you contact him he'll give you really good and sound advice...in fact I just checked out a post he wrote not too long ago...take from it what you will:



      And that post can be found at the following thread which I found pretty interesting:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...backlinks.html

      But if I'm wrong about something please correct me...
      Thanks for the info and yes I respect all warriors on the forum but the ones you mention would probably be my best bets as far as really good advice.

      I would however like for someone to give me some advice on this.

      Does anyone know if this will work


      step 1. export blogs

      step 2. delete old blogs, wait until they no long show in serps

      step 3. import blogs to new domains

      Or even step 4. import all blogs onto same domain making it a large authority site with 1500 pages of content.

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.

      Please Please don't over look this post people
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      • Profile picture of the author dakar
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thanks for the info and yes I respect all warriors on the forum but the ones you mention would probably be my best bets as far as really good advice.

        I would however like for someone to give me some advice on this.

        Does anyone know if this will work


        step 1. export blogs

        step 2. delete old blogs, wait until they no long show in serps

        step 3. import blogs to new domains

        Or even step 4. import all blogs onto same domain making it a large authority site with 1500 pages of content.

        Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.

        Please Please don't over look this post people
        Hey Nest. Sorry to hear what happened. I know me and you had a few chats in your old thread (about making full time income). I learned alot from you and I'm actually going to apply a portion of your technique to a site that I'm building out. However, my intention was not to copy you because my site and monetization strategy are a little different than yours (i'm not using adsense).

        I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure someone can give you great advice soon. My only thought is this: By simply exporting the blogs to a new domain, don't you think its possible google will still know who you are by comparing the content? I'm not even sure they would keep track of these things, but who knows.

        Don't give up though. I would completely avoid the paid backlink methods. You said you were doing fine with the long tail searches.
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        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          Originally Posted by dakar View Post

          Hey Nest. Sorry to hear what happened. I know me and you had a few chats in your old thread (about making full time income). I learned alot from you and I'm actually going to apply a portion of your technique to a site that I'm building out. However, my intention was not to copy you because my site and monetization strategy are a little different than yours (i'm not using adsense).

          I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure someone can give you great advice soon. My only thought is this: By simply exporting the blogs to a new domain, don't you think its possible google will still know who you are by comparing the content? I'm not even sure they would keep track of these things, but who knows.

          Don't give up though. I would completely avoid the paid backlink methods. You said you were doing fine with the long tail searches.
          I'm hoping google doesn't keep track of stuff like that. I mean they gave my site the penalty not my content. If I have to start from the beginning that's fine with me. This time around I'm thinking of building a very large medical career site focusing on 20 of the most popular medical fields. The goal will be to have anywhere between 1000 to 3000 pages
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          • Profile picture of the author dakar
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            I'm hoping google doesn't keep track of stuff like that. I mean they gave my site the penalty not my content. If I have to start from the beginning that's fine with me. This time around I'm thinking of building a very large medical career site focusing on 20 of the most popular medical fields. The goal will be to have anywhere between 1000 to 3000 pages
            I'm creating something similar but in another totally different market. I could have either created 50 small sites or 1 big site. I'm also thinking of creating 1000 or so pages. My question for you:

            In the previous thread you mentioned that it costs about $4 to create each page. So you are willing to spend 1000 * $4 = $4000 on this new site?

            In my case I'm willing to write at least 1/2 the articles.

            Thanks
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            • Profile picture of the author nest28
              Originally Posted by dakar View Post

              I'm creating something similar but in another totally different market. I could have either created 50 small sites or 1 big site. I'm also thinking of creating 1000 or so pages. My question for you:

              In the previous thread you mentioned that it costs about $4 to create each page. So you are willing to spend 1000 * $4 = $4000 on this new site?

              In my case I'm willing to write at least 1/2 the articles.

              Thanks
              Well when you put it like that never mind . No seriously though I would pay that much if I see the site will make my money back within say 4 to 6 months with interest. I am hoping to take all the content from my other blogs and used them on this new authority site after they cease to exist in google's cache. I'm still not sure if this is a good idea as no one has giving advice on the matter.
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Well since you have both Matt and Marc quite involved in this thread perhaps you can get something productive out of this thread and they can step to the plate and remove the links for you. For the site to have any hope at a reconsideration they will want for the links to be removed.

                I can't see all the links that you can and I have not checked every single link that I can see but so far they have been almost all article sites. Removing those would go a long way toward getting a reconsideration request granted and help you salvage the site.
                Yes it would help but I have already asked and was told the links can't be removed.

                Originally Posted by dhex View Post

                How about you submit url removal via GWT (serp+cache) and buy a new domain or aged one and start all over. I know Google has a long memory but they CAN'T store your information without your approval. So you shouldn't worry about content duplication.
                But the problem I see with this approach is that you are going to lose your traction and all the links you built so far that may still have some juice left, etc, etc

                The number 4 option is a recipe for panda slap. Unless you have the resource and budget to build backlinks for those 1500 pages or you manage to get links naturally, you will fall under panda territory. These days its better to build reasonably small focused sites giving equal emphasis to every page on your sites.

                here is a good thread on webmaster world about panda recovery
                Let's Post Our Panda Solutions - Things That Have Worked Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld
                but it also gives you ideas on what NOT to do when building new sites post panda.
                Thank you I didn't know about the url removal. If I submit my home url will google delete the entire site?
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  Yes it would help but I have already asked and was told the links can't be removed.
                  Why in the world not? if its the service I know about it advertises that it uses its own network so they should have access to do that. Lots of article directories allow you to go back and update links.
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                  • Profile picture of the author DynoMutt
                    nest28,

                    I'm sorry to hear your rankings dropped. I actually like your idea of going to Yahoo! Answers to get topics for posts and get visitors from longtail searches. Seems like it's an easy way for someone to get their feet wet.

                    But if you're going after these longtail searches, with at least 100 pages/posts on your blog, perhaps you don't need to even purchase backlinks and risk a penalty or a drop as a result of backlinks getting deindexed.

                    I'm currently building a private network for myself, so I can afford to go after keywords that are a bit competitive, but your method is intriguing. I'll try it out to see how it works, without backlinks.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                I am hoping to take all the content from my other blogs and used them on this new authority site after they cease to exist in google's cache. I'm still not sure if this is a good idea as no one has giving advice on the matter.
                NO one can tell you for sure if Google has a way of identifying content taken from a site under penalty (if you even have a penalty - you've lost a lot of links so that alone could create the drop). If you want to be really safe then you could rewrite (not merely spin) the content. Faster and cheaper than starting over.
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              • Profile picture of the author dakar
                Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                Well when you put it like that never mind . No seriously though I would pay that much if I see the site will make my money back within say 4 to 6 months with interest. I am hoping to take all the content from my other blogs and used them on this new authority site after they cease to exist in google's cache. I'm still not sure if this is a good idea as no one has giving advice on the matter.
                I agree. . I am also considering spending that much , and hoping to get all that money back in 6 months or so.
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      • Profile picture of the author dhex
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        Thanks for the info and yes I respect all warriors on the forum but the ones you mention would probably be my best bets as far as really good advice.

        I would however like for someone to give me some advice on this.

        Does anyone know if this will work


        step 1. export blogs

        step 2. delete old blogs, wait until they no long show in serps

        step 3. import blogs to new domains

        Or even step 4. import all blogs onto same domain making it a large authority site with 1500 pages of content.

        Any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you.

        Please Please don't over look this post people
        How about you submit url removal via GWT (serp+cache) and buy a new domain or aged one and start all over. I know Google has a long memory but they CAN'T store your information without your approval. So you shouldn't worry about content duplication.
        But the problem I see with this approach is that you are going to lose your traction and all the links you built so far that may still have some juice left, etc, etc

        The number 4 option is a recipe for panda slap. Unless you have the resource and budget to build backlinks for those 1500 pages or you manage to get links naturally, you will fall under panda territory. These days its better to build reasonably small focused sites giving equal emphasis to every page on your sites.

        here is a good thread on webmaster world about panda recovery
        Let's Post Our Panda Solutions - Things That Have Worked Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld
        but it also gives you ideas on what NOT to do when building new sites post panda.
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        • Profile picture of the author dakar
          Originally Posted by dhex View Post

          The number 4 option is a recipe for panda slap. Unless you have the resource and budget to build backlinks for those 1500 pages or you manage to get links naturally, you will fall under panda territory. These days its better to build reasonably small focused sites giving equal emphasis to every page on your sites.
          question. Why would a big authority site with 1000's of pages be a recipe for a panda slap?
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by Ashera View Post

            @nest28 , I'm sorry to hear about your sites getting hit. Some of sites that I play around with different backlinking strategies got hit as well (luckily these couple weren't my primary source of income and more test subjects than anything.)

            However I do know you must be feeling really frustrated and I feel for you.

            In the future my one recommendation is to diversify a bit more- get a bunch of smaller sites that make you something like $5 or $10 a day just in case something like this happens, so you can at least still pay rent.

            Also DIVERSIFY- dont use the same link building method on all your sites because if that method stops working, so does your cash flow!
            Thank you for the kind words and advice. In future I will be doing very little backlinking. I think having a ton of content will bring in a steady income even without backlinking.

            Honestly I feel like this lifts a weight of my shoulders, I mean now I don't have to stress over backlinks.

            Originally Posted by radivoj View Post

            I had same problem with several of my sites that received message for "unnatural links" they were ranked #1 then after I got message they end up at page 5-6 and since then it has been over a month they still there it's 50 penalty which mean that no matter how many backlinks you do your site can not pass page 5 until Google lift up the penalty,this is ridiculous so if your competition try to hurt your ranking they can simply sent couple of thousands spammy backlinks using the same anchor text and you will be penalized for "unnatural links" in fact so far over 900 K sites has been penalized for "unnatural links" and still getting penalized every single day just check Google webmaster forum and you will see every single day some webmaster post message "Google just penalized another my site" due to this things that happening no link building is safe anymore, if you constantly build the link to climb the ranking or maintain top ranking soon or later you are going to get penalized for "unnatural links" or competition can easily penalized your site Google doesn't care anymore as long as they notice that your site getting suspicious links they gonna penalize you for "unnatural links" Google this days are less about content and more for advertisers who willing to pay for the traffic, what benefits Google has from you to have site #1 and earn affiliate commission Google making 0 from you they earning from adwords advertisers they are changing things to give certain sites and groups an advantage over the typical affiliate marketers for advertising purpose...
            Yes I'm starting to hear talk of using fiverr gigs to get your competition penalized.

            That is one really great bonus to my method, I wont be on first page of google so no one would even consider me threat enough to trying hurt my site. I just stick to long tail which nobody but seems to care about.

            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Here is what I would do before making any big decisions.

            First I would test If building new quality links will bring back the SERP rank on an existing easy to rank keyword/page.

            If the fresh quality backlinks don't work, take an easy to rank keyword that you once ranked in Google SERPs in the past. The easier the existing keyword phrase, the faster you'll see If your testing works.

            1) Save the existing easy to rank article/content (single page) to your desktop (txt file).

            2) Delete the old web page & make sure it's removed from Google SERPs. Make sure to save the deleted URL/keyword phrase & make sure you have proof that the page is removed from the SERPs.

            3) Once the old page is deindexed/removed from the SERPs, create a new web page with a slightly different URL than the old URL, make sure the new URL doesn't have the same URL someplace on the existing site.

            4) Paste the old article/content into the new web page.

            5) Hand build a few quality links to get Google looking at the new URL.

            6) Keep an eye on Google SERPs for that specific keyword phrase.

            The point here is to test If changing the URL will let you salvage the old content & keep that old content on the same domain while ranking again in Google SERPs.

            Also, don't mess around with any messages in GWT, especially while doing any testing.
            Thank you very much yukon I really do appreciate it.

            One question though say I wanted to start over and put all content on one site would that work after the content was no longer in google cache.

            I know you have experience with really large sites so any insight would be helpful.

            I already have new content that I can place on the old sights and test out the advice you gave me. Also would a 301 redirect help. If I were to do a 301 redirect would the penalty transfer to the new site

            Originally Posted by dakar View Post

            I agree. . I am also considering spending that much , and hoping to get all that money back in 6 months or so.
            My gf ask how much would it be to start over, when I gave her that price tag of 4000 she almost had heart attack but I also explained that I am really lucky. If I had a business offline it would take much more that 4 grand start it up.

            I also feel lucky that google doesn't ban you from adsense at the same time they give you this penalty.

            Originally Posted by dakar View Post

            question. Why would a big authority site with 1000's of pages be a recipe for a panda slap?
            I wonder the same thing.
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            • Profile picture of the author scottmacair
              A bunch of my friends who received the Unnatural Links Detected notice all used Matt Laclear's blog network for ranking. Sure they used a few other link sources as well but they all had Matt's network in common. When they requested that the links be removed the help desk reply was No.

              I had a look at some of the links from that network and they are low quality spun rubbish pumped out and indexed an an aggressive rate. Completely unnatural.
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              • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
                Originally Posted by scottmacair View Post

                A bunch of my friends who received the Unnatural Links Detected notice all used Matt Laclear's blog network for ranking. Sure they used a few other link sources as well but they all had Matt's network in common. When they requested that the links be removed the help desk reply was No.

                I had a look at some of the links from that network and they are low quality spun rubbish pumped out and indexed an an aggressive rate. Completely unnatural.
                Whether or not his service is to blame, I would recommend to the people who do that service to change how they do it, it's too aggressive and un-natural, especially for new sites that don't have many visitors, and is asking for trouble.

                Adding more keywords to be allowed won't make a bit of difference either, need to slow it down and get more quality links.

                Though as I have said in this topic, in my opinion it was that aggressive link building that got nest penalized.

                Rather do it slower and manually personally just to be sure, these days, then only myself to blame if I do cock up, and if you're going for the right keywords you shouldn't need many links anyway few here, few there...

                I had someone come ask me for help the other day who got the message from Google, his site was getting about 40 uniques a day, yet in first month he got himself over 600 backlinks.

                Considering the site only got 1200 uniques in a month, he somehow thought Google would believe that he got himself 600 odd links from them, and it was only a 5 page niche site.

                Gotta think about these things, getting so many links for a site that hardly anyone visits isn't natural, slow and steady, you don't or shouldn't need too many, and having lots for a site that no-one really visits just looks suspicious.
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                • Profile picture of the author scottmacair
                  Given the amount of Blog Networks that have been busted, you'd be mad to use a Blog Network like Matt Laclears.

                  When Google bust a blog network they know all the links they find on the blogs point to sites engaged in gaming their algo - the blogs serve no other purpose.

                  With every recent confirmed deindexed Blog Network comes thousands of unnatural links detected threads in the forums - perhaps there is a connection?

                  People running SEO services are suggesting that the Unnatural Links Detected Notice is just scare tactics - is rankings dropped to -100 for all keywords just scare tactics!?!

                  Furthermore the blogs on that particular network are spun junk and I think it's only a matter of time before we see it hammered with the deindexing hammer.
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              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                I have good news, one of my newest sites is only 6 days old and already ranking for long tail sentences. It only has 5 articles but the site is receiving a lil traffic. I'm just going to put all my efforts into my new sites and not worry about the old ones. I should be back to my old income in a few months. This site has 0 backlinks btw it simply just got indexed on it's own. I will build out a couple sites without backlinking and let you guys know how it goes.
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                • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  I have good news, one of my newest sites is only 6 days old and already ranking for long tail sentences. It only has 5 articles but the site is receiving a lil traffic. I'm just going to put all my efforts into my new sites and not worry about the old ones. I should be back to my old income in a few months. This site has 0 backlinks btw it simply just got indexed on it's own. I will build out a couple sites without backlinking and let you guys know how ft goes.
                  Good luck, learn from your mistakes and move on.

                  You've had a good attitude about all of this, so many people moan and feel hard done by when they know they did something they shouldn't.

                  At the end of the day not a lot you can do except admit it's partly your fault, learn from it and don't make same mistakes again.
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                  • Profile picture of the author nest28
                    Originally Posted by hicksdelight View Post

                    Good luck, learn from your mistakes and move on.

                    You've had a good attitude about all of this, so many people moan and feel hard done by when they know they did something they shouldn't.

                    At the end of the day not a lot you can do except admit it's partly your fault, learn from it and don't make same mistakes again.
                    Yes I admit everything that has happened was my fault I made the decision to use certain services t build back links unnaturally. I tried my best to follow google's rules for making a website but forgot the to follow those rule about backlinks. I have learned my lesson well in the feature I will build just a few links a month and let my visitors do the rest.

                    Also I just want to say thanx to everybody that offered advice and wished me luck. I believe in karma , the other thread was intended to help my fellow internet marketers succeed in achieving a full time income through adsense. Now if it wasn't for me starting that thread I doubt I would have receive as much help as I did in this thread.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                      Also I just want to say thanx to everybody that offered advice and wished me luck. I believe in karma , the other thread was intended to help my fellow internet marketers succeed in achieving a full time income through adsense. Now if it wasn't for me starting that thread I doubt I would have receive as much help as I did in this thread.
                      You have a great attitude Nest. Wish you the best. Any help you need feel free to PM me.
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                      • Profile picture of the author nest28
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        You have a great attitude Nest. Wish you the best. Any help you need feel free to PM me.
                        Thank you, before these last couple threads I stayed to myself but i'm glad that I opened up because now I have made a few new friends. I have no one to learn from or to exchange ideas,info etc and I know my gf is getting pretty tired of hearing me talk about thing she doesn't understand. Not having friends in this industry can also lead to not being successful. If you have a few friends who have more experience than you they can't help you avoid many mistakes they made in the past.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              Thank you very much yukon I really do appreciate it.

              One question though say I wanted to start over and put all content on one site would that work after the content was no longer in google cache.

              I know you have experience with really large sites so any insight would be helpful.

              I already have new content that I can place on the old sights and test out the advice you gave me. Also would a 301 redirect help. If I were to do a 301 redirect would the penalty transfer to the new site
              Personally the first thing I would do is the steps I pointed out in post #108. Those steps would be the easiest thing to test right now (IMO), do the easy test on a smaller scale & see If all you need to do is basically change the URL to a new URL on the same domain to get the keyword/new-page ranked in the SERPs.
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              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Personally the first thing I would do is the steps I pointed out in post #108. Those steps would be the easiest thing to test right now (IMO), do the easy test on a smaller scale & see If all you need to do is basically change the URL to a new URL on the same domain to get the keyword/new-page ranked in the SERPs.
                Good idea, I'm gonna advice that to one of my monhtly clients as we got his brand new page to page 2 in no time but now it tanked to page 4 and doesn't seem to move an inch anymore, despite building 10 strong homepage links.
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                  Good idea, I'm gonna advice that to one of my monhtly clients as we got his brand new page to page 2 in no time but now it tanked to page 4 and doesn't seem to move an inch anymore, despite building 10 strong homepage links.
                  If you do test this, I would do so without a 301 redirect.

                  The idea is to create a new/fresh page/URL with the same content. A 301 redirect would be telling Google "Hey look, I have the exact same page, page title, etc... on another page that I want you to forward a problem URL to", bad idea IMO.

                  I wouldn't want the old URL associated with the new URL in any way, just delete the old URL & be done with it. Make sure you have a backup of the content saved offline, before deleting anything.

                  Also don't forget to track down any dead URLs on the domain, If you delete an existing URL, remove all traces of the old URLs from the domain.

                  I would only test this on maybe 3 of your easiest to rank keywords, that you had ranked in the past. If the easy pages rank without problems, then the rest of the sites pages should also rank. I'm strictly talking about keywords that you once ranked for in the past, new keywords/competition is a whole other thing to deal with.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              I already have new content that I can place on the old sights and test out the advice you gave me. Also would a 301 redirect help. If I were to do a 301 redirect would the penalty transfer to the new site
              .
              The links would so the penalty if not immediately very well could transfer especially with a subsequent review. Since it doesn't appear you are going to get any help removing the links (sad) then I would go full steam ahead with Yukon's suggestions.

              Incidentally if you find you want to rewrite some of the content this tool is pretty good

              Spin Rewriter - Article Spinner and Article Rewriter - Best Rewriter Out There!

              I do NOT use it as a spinner because despite the claims it has the tendency to create garbage as well but it does give you alot of great suggestions to rewrite an article
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        • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
          Originally Posted by dhex View Post


          The number 4 option is a recipe for panda slap. Unless you have the resource and budget to build backlinks for those 1500 pages or you manage to get links naturally, you will fall under panda territory. These days its better to build reasonably small focused sites giving equal emphasis to every page on your sites.
          .
          I think a lot of people would say the opposite, and have been saying the opposite, that it's now time to start building more authority type sites and move away from the micro niche game, or least building some authority aiming sites alongside them, as they will be more stable.

          So be interested to hear why you think an authority type model would be asking for trouble from the Panda.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader82
    You do not need many back links to rank any site, you just need few quality high page rank back links and good unique contents.
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  • Profile picture of the author ehustler
    I'm currently experiencing the same situation. Should I stop building backlinks for a while? I don't know what to do at this point. My site had a lot of unique content and plenty of backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
    Oh, it looks like I made a mistake about the blog comments. I was looking at the other site we worked on. There aren't any blog comments for the site listed in the OP
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

      Oh, it looks like I made a mistake about the blog comments. I was looking at the other site we worked on. There aren't any blog comments for the site listed in the OP
      You didn't even have to admit that but you did, that will show your customers what kind of guy they are dealing with.
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  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    My idea to delete or remove my blogs from google and repost these articles to new domains was shot down after reading this info from google'ss site.




    When NOT to use the URL removal tool


    To "start from scratch" with your site. If you're worried that your site may have a penalty, or you want to start with a clean slate after purchasing a domain from someone else, we don't recommend trying to use the URL removal tool to remove your entire site and then start afresh. Search engines gather a lot of information from other sites (such as who links to you, or what words they use to describe your site) and use this to help understand your site. Even if we could remove everything we currently know about your site, a lot of it would come back exactly the same once we'd recrawled all the other sites that help us understand your site and put it in context. If you're worried that your domain has some bad history, we recommend filing a reconsideration request letting us know what you're worried about and what has changed (such as that you've acquired the domain from someone else, or that you've changed certain aspects of your site).
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    One thing which I am curious about with Google deindexing all these blog networks and penalizing people who used them, how do you go about removing the links back to your site? I don't think the guys from BMR are going to do it for you, or any of the networks. Not unless you delete the link entirely from your site so the network link points back to nothing, even then not sure if this would help.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ashera
      Originally Posted by BigNorm View Post

      One thing which I am curious about with Google deindexing all these blog networks and penalizing people who used them, how do you go about removing the links back to your site? I don't think the guys from BMR are going to do it for you, or any of the networks. Not unless you delete the link entirely from your site so the network link points back to nothing, even then not sure if this would help.
      BMR had an option on closing for its customers to remove all posts from the system.

      Sorry for the double post.
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      If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashera
    @nest28 , I'm sorry to hear about your sites getting hit. Some of sites that I play around with different backlinking strategies got hit as well (luckily these couple weren't my primary source of income and more test subjects than anything.)

    However I do know you must be feeling really frustrated and I feel for you.

    In the future my one recommendation is to diversify a bit more- get a bunch of smaller sites that make you something like $5 or $10 a day just in case something like this happens, so you can at least still pay rent.

    Also DIVERSIFY- dont use the same link building method on all your sites because if that method stops working, so does your cash flow!
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  • Profile picture of the author radivoj
    I had same problem with several of my sites that received message for "unnatural links" they were ranked #1 then after I got message they end up at page 5-6 and since then it has been over a month they still there it's 50 penalty which mean that no matter how many backlinks you do your site can not pass page 5 until Google lift up the penalty,this is ridiculous so if your competition try to hurt your ranking they can simply sent couple of thousands spammy backlinks using the same anchor text and you will be penalized for "unnatural links" in fact so far over 900 K sites has been penalized for "unnatural links" and still getting penalized every single day just check Google webmaster forum and you will see every single day some webmaster post message "Google just penalized another my site" due to this things that happening no link building is safe anymore, if you constantly build the link to climb the ranking or maintain top ranking soon or later you are going to get penalized for "unnatural links" or competition can easily penalized your site Google doesn't care anymore as long as they notice that your site getting suspicious links they gonna penalize you for "unnatural links" Google this days are less about content and more for advertisers who willing to pay for the traffic, what benefits Google has from you to have site #1 and earn affiliate commission Google making 0 from you they earning from adwords advertisers they are changing things to give certain sites and groups an advantage over the typical affiliate marketers for advertising purpose...
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
    Mike, you aren't famous you are just famously void of logic. It's a figure of speech. Removing links isn't going to help. Like I've said before we couldn't remove them any way since we didn't create them all. Removing links will not increase his rankings.

    It simply is illogical to ignore the evidence that all the sites got hit around the same time (I assume) and we worked on the only two sites. Something else is at play here.

    Oh and you are doing another one of your slight of hands with BMR. I never said you pimped BMR over building a private network but you DID talk very positively of BMR nonetheless and anybody using that information used them got smoked. I think expired domains in general are going to be scrutinized much more closely as well. I wouldn't invest too heavily into any sort of network of aged domains at this point either.

    Anyway, I'm out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

      Mike, you aren't famous you are just famously void of logic. It's a figure of speech. Removing links isn't going to help. Like I've said before we couldn't remove them any way since we didn't create them all. Removing links will not increase his rankings.
      you are just dodging from helping your client. You advertise its your own network so you should be able to remove them. People who did BMR often did other things but BMR at least is stepping to the plate and removing the ones that they can. All you are doing is pointing elsewhere. You can remove the links that you put which you admit to putting. Failure to do even that still makes BMR better for helping their clients.

      It simply is illogical to ignore the evidence that all the sites got hit around the same time (I assume) and we worked on the only two sites. Something else is at play here.
      For anyone else reading this nonsense its very simple. Yes other sites got dinged and then they do a review of all the sites in webmaster tools. If they find that those have unnatural links then they ding those to. So the awful logic that because other sites got dinged its not the fault of the spun spammy article links sent to this site is total nonsense. the client will only be able to win a reconsideration request for the site in this thread if the links pointing to THAT SITE are removed. Theres no mystery as in "oooh there is something else at play here" . We know he got the unnatural link warning which you will only get if you use webmaster tools for your sites. So for anyone who knows a lick of SEO the reason he got several slaps is no mystery. they reviewed all his sites. Since he used multiple kinds of unnatural links he got other sites dinged but the link profile of THIS SITE says what was pointing at THIS site - article submissions. ANyone doing a backlink check can see it clearly no matter how the seller protests, hand waves and denies.

      I never said you pimped BMR over building a private network but you DID talk very positively of BMR nonetheless and anybody using that information used them got smoked.
      Very positively? Lying isn't going to help you. I have been critical of ALL public networks because they have multiple links pointing all kinds of different subjects. BMR I stated was one of the better ones because at least they did not allow spinning and had an editorial process unlike what the service in this thread does. That by no means equals very positively to be better than the worse. So fib all you want. I have videos dating back to summer of last year where I state the problems with all the paid networks and services and I have mentioned it several times in this thread.


      I think expired domains in general are going to be scrutinized much more closely as well. I wouldn't invest too heavily into any sort of network of aged domains at this point either.
      make sure you tell your clients that when you advertise your own Pr network you just did invest in. :rolleyes: but no aged domains are not the only way to build a network so what that has to do with anything is beyond me.

      Marc getting off our back and forth - contact the OP and arrange to have the links you put removed. Do the right thing man. It ain't that hard to remove the ones that you can.
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    I think it is recommended you don't do anything shady...If you're picking the right keywords it isn't hard to rank them with minimal links, you don't need a service to get good rankings for a keyword that gets minimal searches a month with not much competition! I dont get why people use services and stuff and think quantity not quality and risk it all, just do it yourself as you're more likely to do it in a more natural looking way then an automatic service who don't care, plus you know whats going where and whats being written is good quality and not low quality and spun.

    Blog networks are just the beginning.

    (Not saying their aren't some services out there that are decent, though, maybe I am nieve but I'd rather have full control over it all and know what is going where).
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  • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
    Nest28,

    Also you should check out Yukon's post about silo site structure...really good stuff that will help give you a boost in the rankings, allow you to rank multiple pages for the same keyword phrases, and ease the burden of having to do so much external backlinking for the more competitive keyword phrases you may decide to tackle later on....
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by brittlesnc View Post

      Nest28,

      Also you should check out Yukon's post about silo site structure...really good stuff that will help give you a boost in the rankings, allow you to rank multiple pages for the same keyword phrases, and ease the burden of having to do so much external backlinking for the more competitive keyword phrases you may decide to tackle later on....
      I been meaning to get around to it for the past 9 months when i first read that post by yukon. Another thing I will be doing is saturating keywords which is another tip yukon has given everyone. After reading up on the unnatural links message I now understand that a 301 redirect would only transfer the penalty as stated by mike and yukon. I will be putting my full attention to my new sites but will also test yukon's advice.

      Following yukon's advice of saturating a niche I was thinking of using fiverr to have people make videos, unique headers, facebook likes etc. I want to get traffic from other sources besides google.
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      • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        I been meaning to get around to it for the past 9 months when i first read that post by yukon. Another thing I will be doing is saturating keywords which is another tip yukon has given everyone. After reading up on the unnatural links message I now understand that a 301 redirect would only transfer the penalty as stated by mike and yukon. I will be putting my full attention to my new sites but will also test yukon's advice.

        Following yukon's advice of saturating a niche I was thinking of using fiverr to have people make videos, unique headers, facebook likes etc. I want to get traffic from other sources besides google.
        Hmmm...you've pointed out some information from Yukon that I'm actually not familiar with :p.

        Not certain exactly what "saturating a niche" means but I think it just means to drive traffic from other sources besides Google...video marketing, social marketing, maybe even some article marketing, etc.

        But maybe you could explain further or maybe Yukon will if he drops by this thread again...
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  • Profile picture of the author jimkirk1943
    Hi Nest28 exactly the same thing has happened to me !! So just for my 2 cents worth this is my plan pls nobody laugh...

    Ok start again and build a new army of sites ! hell i was a full time IMer surely i can get it back twice as quick right ? this time i know exactly what to do and have learnt from my mistakes.

    Ok google wants high quality material right ? better make sure i give it to them going to make all my pages at least 700 words and just natural on page SEO

    Going to add all the social siginal buttons using `digg digg` and join the free social service SYNND and get all the natural social signals from this service so thats facebook likes, social bookmarks, twitter, google + covered in a natural way and not a fiverr gig for 2million FB likes thats not good.

    Going to build quality web 2.0 articles , ezine articles ect ect all with original content point them to my sites pages and then blast them with scrapbox, AMR no way am i pointing any low quality links at my sites pages


    Going to find blogs in my niche and by hand i shall leave decent comments with links to my site.

    Thats my plan so nest28 thats all i`ve got mate maybe the top dogs here will rip my plan to bits but never mind coz there ant no way i`m going back to a JOB brother !! And hell with all the experience i`ve get bet ya this is going to be easy the second time round !!

    Jim,
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    • Profile picture of the author John F Kennedy
      Jim,

      You have nailed it!

      Shame I didn't read your post before posting my own. :confused:

      If it's quality they want then lets give it them!



      Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

      Hi Nest28 exactly the same thing has happened to me !! So just for my 2 cents worth this is my plan pls nobody laugh...

      Ok start again and build a new army of sites ! hell i was a full time IMer surely i can get it back twice as quick right ? this time i know exactly what to do and have learnt from my mistakes.

      Ok google wants high quality material right ? better make sure i give it to them going to make all my pages at least 700 words and just natural on page SEO

      Going to add all the social siginal buttons using `digg digg` and join the free social service SYNND and get all the natural social signals from this service so thats facebook likes, social bookmarks, twitter, google + covered in a natural way and not a fiverr gig for 2million FB likes thats not good.

      Going to build quality web 2.0 articles , ezine articles ect ect all with original content point them to my sites pages and then blast them with scrapbox, AMR no way am i pointing any low quality links at my sites pages


      Going to find blogs in my niche and by hand i shall leave decent comments with links to my site.

      Thats my plan so nest28 thats all i`ve got mate maybe the top dogs here will rip my plan to bits but never mind coz there ant no way i`m going back to a JOB brother !! And hell with all the experience i`ve get bet ya this is going to be easy the second time round !!

      Jim,
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      • Profile picture of the author ahefner33
        Here's something just to ponder. I have a few sites I created back around 07 when I first started out (XsitePro Sites). I did very little with these, meaning no heavy promotions, other than article submissions to Buzzle, Ezinearticles, Articlesbase (when submitting to the top 25 article directories was popular). Nothing spun, same article went out to all 25. Anyways, kept these because I sort of wanted to keep them so I can always see what I created when I started out. Well back then I had added webmaster tools to these for a brief period, but had deleted them from my WMT account years ago. Well last week I have a stream of emails from the G that came in stating that these sites contain the unnatural linking. So I had no idea they were still collecting data on these sites and the fact that (from me) only had article submissions as an attempt for backlinks almost 4-5 years ago has me :confused:.
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        • Profile picture of the author nellterry
          @nest28 I've been following your original thread for a few days now, I was so impressed by your openness and I was getting ready to buy a domain and follow your strategy. I saw your new thread, though, and man I felt SO bad for you!!! After all your success, just gone in a sec?!!? Plus it was disheartening bc I was really excited to try your method.

          Lately I've been following all the algo changes and stuff REALLY closely in real-time to write news articles for my IM clients, so I know a bunch about the Panda updates right now, and I think the alg changes and the blog networks aren't responsible for the slap you experienced. I think maybe partially, or they would have caught up with you eventually. But I think someone saw your thread and reported you. It's the only thing that makes sense given that all your sites got hit at once right after you posted, but you were using diff services. Which SUCKS because you put yourself out there and shared your methods so everyone could learn...

          From here on out I'd keep whatever you're doing close to the chest. Don't give out any more site info or anything else that can harm you new stuff. You're too nice a guy, man. Best of luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
    I would just like to say that I am using Matt LaClear's link building services on around 20 websites and none of them have gotten any messages that I know of and none of them have dropped in rankings... in fact they are all still climbing or remaining steady on page 1....

    One reason I probably haven't gotten a message is because I am not dumb enought to use google webmaster tools... that is an invitation to google saying "Hey, I am trying to SEO my websites, here is a list for you to keep an eye on"...

    I hope that Matt LaClear's service doesn't get dinged the way BMR and those others got hit because by far Matt has the best services out there for the price... Keep up the great work Matt!.. you have made me a lot of money!
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

      I would just like to say that I am using Matt LaClear's link building services on around 20 websites and none of them have gotten any messages that I know of and none of them have dropped in rankings... in fact they are all still climbing or remaining steady on page 1....

      One reason I probably haven't gotten a message is because I am not dumb enought to use google webmaster tools... that is an invitation to google saying "Hey, I am trying to SEO my websites, here is a list for you to keep an eye on"...

      I hope that Matt LaClear's service doesn't get dinged the way BMR and those others got hit because by far Matt has the best services out there for the price... Keep up the great work Matt!.. you have made me a lot of money!
      Our blog network is just a fraction of the type of backlinks we send out now. Plus our network is so small that it just doesn't show up on G's radar. Even if all our blogs went down tomorrow we'd still have 95% of our link juice still flowing.

      Rock on bud.
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      • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
        That's great to hear!...

        Go Buckeyes!

        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        Our blog network is just a fraction of the type of backlinks we send out now. Plus our network is so small that it just doesn't show up on G's radar. Even if all our blogs went down tomorrow we'd still have 95% of our link juice still flowing.

        Rock on bud.
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        • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
          Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

          That's great to hear!...

          Go Buckeyes!
          Buckeyes? Oh boy. I thought you were a Sparties fan for sure! I guess there is still time for you to convert to the Green!
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    • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
      Originally Posted by PicktownChris
      One reason I probably haven't gotten a message is because I am not dumb enought to use google webmaster tools... that is an invitation to google saying "Hey, I am trying to SEO my websites, here is a list for you to keep an eye on"...
      Where have you gotten the idea that using Google Webmaster Tools is telling Google that you are trying to SEO your sites. Its ironic that you know all about Webmaster tools but have never used it......
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      • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
        I came across that in one of the SEO training programs I took... it made sense to me so I never bothered using it for anything...

        Its ironic that I dont use webmaster tools and i'm not the one asking for help because my website got penalized..

        Originally Posted by mraffiliate View Post

        Where have you gotten the idea that using Google Webmaster Tools is telling Google that you are trying to SEO your sites. Its ironic that you know all about Webmaster tools but have never used it......
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        • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
          Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

          I came across that in one of the SEO training programs I took... it made sense to me so I never bothered using it for anything...

          Its ironic that I dont use webmaster tools and i'm not the one asking for help because my website got penalized..
          I think you are confused because Webmaster Tools has nothing to do with getting the unnatural link notice from Google. If you don't have Webmaster Tools account and you get caught trying to manipulate your rankings, your site will get hit by Google irregardless of whether you have a Webmaster account or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

      One reason I probably haven't gotten a message is because I am not dumb enought to use google webmaster tools... that is an invitation to google saying "Hey, I am trying to SEO my websites, here is a list for you to keep an eye on"..
      Webmaster tools has its risks in having Google look all over your sites but not having your sites in them does not stop Google from penalizing a site. Thats a myth. Most of the time these things are initiated by link spam reports (its amazing how many people on WF are completely in the dark about link spam reports) from competitors. Believe it or not i have met people who say they did not get their site hit AND THEY USE BMR.

      SO be thankful without insinuating people are dumb and showing your own ignorance. Facts are I have seen at least four different times where people in this forum alone indicate that they got notices who used this service. Theres absolutely no reason to call or insinuate the OP was dumb. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw or to be more specific that no one in a particular serp has bothered to do a link spam report yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Webmaster tools has its risks in having Google look all over your sites but not having your sites in them does not stop Google from penalizing a site. Thats a myth. Most of the time these things are initiated by link spam reports (its amazing how many people on WF are completely in the dark about link spam reports) from competitors. Believe it or not i have met people who say they did not get their site hit AND THEY USE BMR.

        SO be thankful without insinuating people are dumb . Facts are I have seen at least four people in this forum alone indicate that they got notices who used this service. Theres absolutely no reason to call or insinuate the OP was dumb. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw or to be more specific that no one in a particular serp has bothered to do a link spam report yet.
        Thanks for the insight on the link spam reports. Webmaster Tools has helped me better my site by fixing crawl and html errors that I wouldn't have known existed.
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        • Profile picture of the author Prowebstakht
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      • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
        I never said that not using webmaster tools was going to keep you safe.. All I was saying that if you use it, it makes it easier for Google to see what you are doing on all of your websites.. so if you get caught doing something on one website, then they are probably going to take a closer look at all of your websites... How many people use (or know about) webmaster tools that are not doing any SEO on their website?... I would guess that a very large % of people who use webmaster tools are also doing SEO on their webistes.. Since doing any SEO on a website is against google TOS, it makes sense to me for Google to see what websites are on webmaster tools knowing that a very large % of those websites are doing SEO and breaking Google TOS... if Google isn't doing that, then they should hire me and I could help them bust a lot of people breaking Google TOS...

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Webmaster tools has its risks in having Google look all over your sites but not having your sites in them does not stop Google from penalizing a site. Thats a myth. Most of the time these things are initiated by link spam reports (its amazing how many people on WF are completely in the dark about link spam reports) from competitors. Believe it or not i have met people who say they did not get their site hit AND THEY USE BMR.

        SO be thankful without insinuating people are dumb and showing your own ignorance. Facts are I have seen at least four different times where people in this forum alone indicate that they got notices who used this service. Theres absolutely no reason to call or insinuate the OP was dumb. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw or to be more specific that no one in a particular serp has bothered to do a link spam report yet.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

          Since doing any SEO on a website is against google TOS, .
          That line is about as ridiculous as you insinuating the OP is dumb or that you are superior to him because his site was penalized like it can't happen to you. No? Point us to where these terms of service indicate that doing "any SEO" is a violation.

          Also you might want to check your backlinks. The profile that is visible has a bucket load of missing links (looks like more than half the links)and in a very quick check I was able to find domains no longer in Google's index. If you had been ranking for anything on the basis of those links you would have seen a fall just like the Op did.
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          • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
            My apologies to the OP if he thought I was calling him dumb directly... I was making more of a generalization that everybody is dumb for using webmaster tools, not just him specifically... so if he took specific offense to that, I am sorry... If dumb is too strong of a word, then maybe I should have used not smart instead... "In my personal opinion, I don't think it's smart to use webmaster tools because you are telling google which websites you want to perform seo on"... is that a less offending statement?

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            That line is about as ridiculous as you insinuating the OP is dumb or that you are superior to him because his site was penalized like it can't happen to you. No? Point us to where these terms of service indicate that doing "any SEO" is a violation.

            Also you might want to check your backlinks. The profile that is visible has a bucket load of missing links (looks like more than half the links)and in a very quick check I was able to find domains no longer in Google's index. If you had been ranking for anything on the basis of those links you would have seen a fall just like the Op did.
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  • Profile picture of the author daveshu
    I think it's actually against the google adsense terms of service to disclose earnings (don't know if you did that in your thread?).

    But anyway, it's kind of funny to read people talking about "how we going to get around this latest google change."

    Googles trying to stop the spam, and yet the mentality of a lot of people is "how can we create spam that google can't detect."

    Spinning articles, content, etc, blog networks, senuke, blog commenting software, yada, yada are all tricks used by people who are trying to unnaturally get their (usually) low quality site to page 1, and so you want to avoid doing all of those things.

    I'd like to say the answer is to create high quality content and promote it around the net, but I fear the reality might be as someone else pointed out - maybe Google want you to pay to get to page 1.

    I've seen some weird stuff happening in google uk when you search for seo or for payday loans.

    There's some serious spamming & devious behaviour going on there at the top of page 1, but never seems to get dealt with.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    To be honest GWT really doesn't provide that much useful data, IMO.

    The thing that irks me is GWT is so freakin slow at updating data, it shouldn't take almost a week to see keyword SERP changes inside GWT.

    I've considered dumping GWT because it really doesn't have much to offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Bottom line is this folks. Anyone purchasing any sort of links and the vendors selling them the links are chasing the algorithm. Those who chase algorithms see their rankings drop from time to time.

    It's a cycle that has been repeating itself ever since SEO came into existence.

    This algorithm change was no different.

    Of course the safest way to go about ranking a site is by writing oodles and oodles of quality content.

    Our lowest tiered service that OP signed up for runs right now for $15 a month. Some folks are getting it for under $10 with our bulk rate. (We grabbed over 3,000 page one rankings last year for Warriors with it even so!).

    If you want quality you pay for quality.

    You can't pay $10 - $15 a month and have it be your only link source and expect anything other than chasing the algorithm.

    I personally hope folks quit backlinking by the masses.

    There's a reason why the daily total number of page ones we grab for clients has gone up since the latest "scary" algorithm change.

    Folks quit backlinking and we haven't. Thank you Google!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post


      If you want quality you pay for quality.

      You can't pay $10 - $15 a month and have it be your only link source and expect anything other than chasing the algorithm.
      I'll agree with that and I'll add that if you don't opt for quality and go with links from Spun content you can expect somewhere down the line (if you go for anything bringing in good paying traffic) you can expect to get your site dropped in Google.

      I personally hope folks quit backlinking by the masses.
      They aren't from what I see. They are making adjustments to get better links while others are trying to ride the pony the same way they did before.

      There's a reason why the daily total number of page ones we grab for clients has gone up since the latest "scary" algorithm change.
      Well

      A) there has been no latest scary algo change. Deindexing is not done by the algo and unnatural link notices came out from last July

      B) for full disclosure that may also be why the reports of link spam notices in association with said services on this forum have gone up too. Lets be fair. You can't just point out competitors like BMR like you did and pretend it hasn't touched your service while there have been reports on your own service in this forum multiple times in association with penalties for unnatural links as well. We can be honest about it. its no big deal multiple unnatural link providers clients got hit - yours as well as evidenced in this thread and others.
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      • Profile picture of the author mraffiliate
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I'll agree with that and I'll add that if you don't opt for quality and go with links from Spun content you can expect somewhere down the line (if you go for anything bringing in good paying traffic) you can expect to get your site dropped in Google.



        They aren't from what I see. They are making adjustments to get better links while others are trying to ride the pony the same way they did before.



        Well

        A) there has been no latest scary algo change. Deindexing is not done by the algo and unnatural link notices came out from last July

        B) for full disclosure that may also be why the reports of link spam notices in association with said services on this forum have gone up too. Lets be fair. You can't just point out competitors like BMR like you did and pretend it hasn't touched your service while there have been reports on your own service in this forum multiple times in association with penalties for unnatural links as well. We can be honest about it. its no big deal multiple unnatural link providers clients got hit - yours as well as evidenced in this thread and others.
        So the unnatural link notices that people are receiving now originated last July? If so why it took so long for people to receive them?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by mraffiliate View Post

          So the unnatural link notices that people are receiving now originated last July? If so why it took so long for people to receive them?
          People have been receiving them,

          Google's Sending Webmaster Notifications About Bad Links Pointing At Their Sites

          People even mentioned they got them from last year but with the rush of networks deindexed it finally caught everyones attention. Google just turned up the activity
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Good night folks. Go Sparties...Go Tigers!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author michael scott
    well it's not like matt's services are completely useless...why not point those crap links to your competitors (assuming they are not authority material) and tank them? How much does it run, like $99 a pop? Imagine if you're on #4 and you spend $300 to kill of the top 3 which will make you #1.

    Matt my man, you need to re-brand yourself as the NEGATIVE LETHAL SEO KUNG POW NINJA. "Want to tank your competitors with crappy links? Look at the sites we've tanked backed by our long list of complaint reviews"
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    • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
      LMAO if you think Matt's links are crap links, you must be on crack (or haven't actually used his service)... I wouldn't put them anywhere near the classification of crap links (like what you get with profile links, comment links, etc)... I have used his service on around 20 websites, several of them I have only used his service for my backlinking, and all 20 websites are as strong as ever...keep in mind I am not using these on crap websites built for adsense / affiliate liinks... these are real websites for real businesses...

      If you think that doing a backlink campaign to a competitor will drop them in the Serps, then you really don't know SEO very well and you should probably buy some WSO's or something to learn a little more before insulting someone's service and making stupid comments like that...



      Originally Posted by michael scott View Post

      well it's not like matt's services are completely useless...why not point those crap links to your competitors (assuming they are not authority material) and tank them? How much does it run, like $99 a pop? Imagine if you're on #4 and you spend $300 to kill of the top 3 which will make you #1.

      Matt my man, you need to re-brand yourself as the NEGATIVE LETHAL SEO KUNG POW NINJA. "Want to tank your competitors with crappy links? Look at the sites we've tanked backed by our long list of complaint reviews"
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

        LMAO if you think Matt's links are crap links, you must be on crack (or haven't actually used his service)
        Chris I am not going to get into a bashfest on Matt's service but the facts are links from spun content are garbage links in 2012. theres no amount of arguing or unverifiable testimonials that will change it. Everyone who follows SEO knows this. The evidence is all over this forum. In the one backlink profile that we can look at from you over half your links ARE GONE, and there ARE domains that are gone from the index. Those be the facts.



        I have used his service on around 20 websites, several of them I have only used his service for my backlinking, and all 20 websites are as strong as ever...keep in mind I am not using these on crap websites built for adsense / affiliate liinks... these are real websites for real businesses...
        People can say anything and I have no qualms with you defending a service up to the point when it just suggests bad SEO in general for others. Aiming a bunch of links at your money site that are easily identifiable to Google as a network these days is just poor SEO.

        If you think that doing a backlink campaign to a competitor will drop them in the Serps, then you really don't know SEO very well and you should probably buy some WSO's or something to learn a little more before insulting someone's service and making stupid comments like that...
        Chris stop man. You are showing that its you that do not know SEO. You haven't participated in this section of the forum since last year. To say that Negative SEO is impossible betrays how little you are up to date. Sites left and right are getting tanked by bad links pointed at them. It is not likely to be able to tank any site but claiming that its not quite doable to many sites is really not a smart comment. So really man - ease of the "dumb", "On crack" "stupid" comments because it really tends to make you look like you really don;t know much about the subject you are talking about.
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        • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
          Well if that ever becomes the case and Matt's service doesn't work anymore, THEN I will move on and find where the cheese moved to... however, it seems to still be working great for me...so it makes no sense to move away from something that is still working... I make decisions based off of results, not words....

          I will be the first to admit I am not an "Expert" in SEO... I am just a stay at home dad raising a 6 month old and a 2 year old... While getting my Bachelors Degree in Internet Marketing, they never even touched the subject of SEO...however, I have been using SEO for about 11 years now and more importantly I have been using SEO in part to make money...My opinion is, there is the hard way to do seo and the easy way (not right and wrong)... I prefer the easy way... I spend less than 1 hour per day "working", have about $300 / month in overhead costs (from outsourcing seo to Matt and others) and I bring in around 4K per month... In my opinion that is a decent rate of return on time and resources... So I may not be an "Expert" on SEO, but I am pretty good at maximizing my time to make a little extra cash... If your goal with SEO is to make money, then a service like Matt's may fit in your business plan nicely... if your plan with SEO is to spend lots of time to get the same result, then maybe it's not...



          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Chris I am not going to get into a bashfest on Matt's service but the facts are links from spun content are garbage links in 2012. theres no amount of arguing or unverifiable testimonials that will change it. Everyone who follows SEO knows this. The evidence is all over this forum. In the one backlink profile that we can look at from you over half your links ARE GONE, and there ARE domains that are gone from the index. Those be the facts.





          People can say anything and I have no qualms with you defending a service up to the point when it just suggests bad SEO in general for others. Aiming a bunch of links at your money site that are easily identifiable to Google as a network these days is just poor SEO.



          Chris stop man. You are showing that its you that do not know SEO. You haven't participated in this section of the forum since last year. To say that Negative SEO is impossible betrays how little you are up to date. Sites left and right are getting tanked by bad links pointed at them. It is not likely to be able to tank any site but claiming that its not quite doable to many sites is really not a smart comment. So really man - ease of the "dumb", "On crack" "stupid" comments because it really tends to make you look like you really don;t know much about the subject you are talking about.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

            I spend less than 1 hour per day "working", have about $300 / month in overhead costs (from outsourcing seo to Matt and others) and I bring in around 4K per month... In my opinion that is a decent rate of return on time and resources... So I may not be an "Expert" on SEO, but I am pretty good at maximizing my time to make a little extra cash... If your goal with SEO is to make money, then a service like Matt's may fit in your business plan nicely... if your plan with SEO is to spend lots of time to get the same result, then maybe it's not...
            Chris lets cut to the chase. People come on here saying all kinds of things with all kinds of income claims etc. Its words. could be true could be not. What are the facts on the table? The fact is that of the backlinks to the site in your signature you have lost over half your backlinks and there are link source sites that have been deindexed. Thats not efficient SEO no matter what you call it or how many different ways you call people dumb in this thread. So looking at the only real evidence that is on the table in your link profile when you talk about quality links you are not credible.

            Originally Posted by xrcv View Post

            If your niche is funny pictures and cat videos sure. If you are an insurance company, no one links to you..
            Download the free copy of Seo spyglass and spend some time using it looking through some Google results. You will find that you had no idea what you are talking about.
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            • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
              What website in my signature are you talking about? Typically I never put links to my websites in my signature of forums like this because that is just as dumb as using webmaster tools lol....

              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Chris lets cut to the chase. People come on here saying all kinds of things with all kinds of income claims etc. Its words. could be true could be not. What are the facts on the table? The fact is that of the backlinks to the site in your signature you have lost over half your backlinks and there are link source sites that have been deindexed. Thats not efficient SEO no matter what you call it or how many different ways you call people dumb in this thread. So looking at the only real evidence that is on the table in your link profile when you talk about quality links you are not credible.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

                What website in my signature are you talking about? Typically I never put links to my websites in my signature of forums like this because that is just as dumb as using webmaster tools lol....
                Chris I don't check ownership, part business ownership of sites, or other connections of sites in signatures. However since to my understanding affiliate links are not allowed on WF I assume that there is some higher connection people have with the direct pages they link to.

                If that is not the case then its no better because nothing at all can be verified of what you said which as you say is wise but on the flip end also makes nothing you have said credible either especially since you have indicated by some statements that you do not know much about SEO while telling people they are on crack, dumb or stupid.
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                • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
                  My bad... I put that link up a long time ago... I am not associated with them (or never actually used them, lol).. I took it off.. thanks for pointing that out to me...

                  As for credibility... Believe me, don't believe me, I don't really care... If I was going to make something up, I probably would have made it a lot more exciting, lol... I am not going to BS anybody and say I am an expert.. I am just going to give my opinion based on what I have experienced and common sense...

                  I don't recall saying I don't know much... I think the term I used was, I am not an expert... Maybe I said that sarcastically, who knows... 6 month old is teething and I didn't get a whole lot of sleep last night... so who knows what the heck I am saying, haha!

                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  Chris I don't check ownership, part business ownership of sites, or other connections of sites in signatures. However since to my understanding affiliate links are not allowed on WF I assume that there is some higher connection people have with the direct pages they link to.

                  If that is not the case then its no better because nothing at all can be verified of what you said which as you say is wise but on the flip end also makes nothing you have said credible either especially since you have indicated by some statements that you do not know much about SEO while telling people they are on crack, dumb or stupid.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

                    I don't recall saying I don't know much... I think the term I used was, I am not an expert... Maybe I said that sarcastically, who knows... 6 month old is teething and I didn't get a whole lot of sleep last night... so who knows what the heck I am saying, haha!
                    Its a forum Chris. we can read what you wrote and we only have to scroll up to know you have been calling people dumb, stupid and on crack. Just make sure when the kids can read you skip all that nonsense because its the strangest things with kids - they end up learning the words from us and using them even when talking to us.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by michael scott View Post

      why not point those crap links to your competitors (assuming they are not authority material) and tank them?

      Folks, I've seen this mentioned a few times throughout the forum. I really would stay away from this as it wold appear to me that it is borderline illegal.

      At a minimum, I'd think that a webmaster could bring a civil suit for damages against someone who engages in this practice against his site.
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  • Profile picture of the author xrcv
    Since there aren't any sites that get more than 10% natural links now (meaning people linking to the sites from their own blog because they like them) to rank, what exactly is google fighting against?

    They should focus their algo on recognizing quality content, not on monitoring backlinks. There are a ****load of crap content sites on the front page for a ton of kws, but If I create a website with quality content and do some unnatural backlinking the site will be gone for months. WTF
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    • Profile picture of the author greenpeppermint
      Originally Posted by xrcv View Post

      Since there aren't any sites that get more than 10% natural links now (meaning people linking to the sites from their own blog because they like them) to rank, what exactly is google fighting against?

      They should focus their algo on recognizing quality content, not on monitoring backlinks. There are a ****load of crap content sites on the front page for a ton of kws, but If I create a website with quality content and do some unnatural backlinking the site will be gone for months. WTF
      I agree, I used to ignore link building back then, I believe good content and providing what my reader's wants is the way to win SE and I am doing fine until last september 2011 (panda). My sites hit hard and now become on the 3rd or even 5th page...

      When I looked at who is number 1 on my main keyword. I so surprise a PR 0 with only few pages can beat my site PR 2 with over than 300+ pages.

      Wait for few months hoping google will fix its algorithm but never happened. It get better for the last 2 month and get affected again on last panda update on March 21
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  • Profile picture of the author xrcv
    Yep. A quick summary -

    1. A site with no content (literally - I've seen WP with sample page for example) and good (meaning expensive/diff. to get) links will go to 1st page.

    2. A site with a ton of valuable content, created by a professional in the field with 20 unnatural links will get to around the 5th page, stay there for a week and then disappear permanently. It may be possible to recover it after a year or two.

    This is a proven fact. If anyone still thinks g are trying to provide the best 'user experience' think again. They want to place certain sites with ad sense on the front page to keep their daily quote of adsense clicks. If you think this is not incorporated into the algo, you're crazy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by xrcv View Post

      This is a proven fact. If anyone still thinks g are trying to provide the best 'user experience' think again. They want to place certain sites with ad sense on the front page to keep their daily quote of adsense clicks. If you think this is not incorporated into the algo, you're crazy.
      I haven't seen anyone state that certain things are not in the algo but deindexing is not an algo function. Its a completely different action although Google may use signals to identify which sites to subsequently do deindexing on.
      However there has been no great change in the algo recently. Unnatural links have been able to take a site down for a few months short of a year now.

      As for Google not caring about the results just adsense. Sorry but unfortunately most (not all) of the sites that promote themselves through obviously unnatural links tend to be low quality.

      Since there aren't any sites that get more than 10% natural links now (meaning people linking to the sites from their own blog because they like them) to rank
      This is just plain wrong
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      • Profile picture of the author xrcv
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        This is just plain wrong
        If your niche is funny pictures and cat videos sure. If you are an insurance company, no one links to you. Not to mention like a Viagra store. In those niches, sites have to compete with each other who would make the most links. Even if I'm wrong (and I'm not), good luck having a new website get natural links. You'd have to do some self-promotion in the first year for sure.

        I haven't seen anyone state that certain things are not in the algo but deindexing is not an algo function. Its a completely different action although Google may use signals to identify which sites to subsequently do deindexing on.
        However there has been no great change in the algo recently. Unnatural links have been able to take a site down for a few months short of a year now.

        As for Google not caring about the results just adsense. Sorry but unfortunately most (not all) of the sites that promote themselves through obviously unnatural links tend to be low quality.
        True for the most part.
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by michael scott View Post

        well it's not like matt's services are completely useless...why not point those crap links to your competitors (assuming they are not authority material) and tank them? How much does it run, like $99 a pop? Imagine if you're on #4 and you spend $300 to kill of the top 3 which will make you #1.

        Matt my man, you need to re-brand yourself as the NEGATIVE LETHAL SEO KUNG POW NINJA. "Want to tank your competitors with crappy links? Look at the sites we've tanked backed by our long list of complaint reviews"
        Hhmm misleading your advice is, to the dark side it will lead.

        Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

        My apologies to the OP if he thought I was calling him dumb directly... I was making more of a generalization that everybody is dumb for using webmaster tools, not just him specifically... so if he took specific offense to that, I am sorry... If dumb is too strong of a word, then maybe I should have used not smart instead... "In my personal opinion, I don't think it's smart to use webmaster tools because you are telling google which websites you want to perform seo on"... is that a less offending statement?
        Oooooh I see so your were calling everybody dumb, yea that's much better lol
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  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    I don't know about stats but I have never link to a site that helped me. There have been times where I needed info and when I am across it I simply bookmarked that page on my own computer.

    I don't understand google's views on backlinking, they want you to build a great site that will help people in some way but if you don't backlink for higher rankings no one will even find your site to begin with.
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      I don't know about stats but I have never link to a site that helped me. There have been times where I needed info and when I am across it I simply bookmarked that page on my own computer.

      I don't understand google's views on backlinking, they want you to build a great site that will help people in some way but if you don't backlink for higher rankings no one will even find your site to begin with.
      People haven't 'backlinked' naturally for ten years or more. They all know they can get paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
    Thank you for your parenting advice... I was worried that I was going to have to pay $189 for that stellar information....
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    This thread needs to die now, Nest has sorted things out for himself now and is moving on.

    Mike, you cannot help people who don't want to be helped, everything you said I agree with, people are always looking for a quick buck with no long term strategy which is what using those kind of services mentioned is doing, Google couldn't of made it any more clear what is going to happen, but if people want to keep using such services and not have a viable long term strategy then more fool them, let them get on with it.

    People need to learn to work with Google, not against them. (To a degree, or at least make it look less bloody obvious!).

    I think the best thing to take out of this thread is Nest has learned his lesson and won't make the same mistake again.
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    • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
      Great point Hick... you should definitely have a long term strategy... unfortunately with SEO it seems that the only long term strategy you can have is to find what is working no and take advantage of it before it changes... Then when it does change, learn what new things work...

      Also, it doesn't hurt to have some redundancy... so if one thing stops working, your other things are still working.. I have been caught with my pants down a few times in the last 11 years of doing SEO... luckily now SEO only plays about a 20% role in my income related activities... so if my SEO stops working, I have a nice buffer to make adjustments to get it to start working again...

      Every time Google makes a change it seems to be the end of the world... Personally I love it when there is a change.. it weeds out the idiots who got lucky and makes it more profitable for those who know how to adjust.... (Oh no, I just called someone else a mean name!)...
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    Great point Hick... you should definitely have a long term strategy... unfortunately with SEO it seems that the only long term strategy you can have is to find what is working no and take advantage of it before it changes... Then when it does change, learn what new things work...
    I think quite few people would disagree that you cannot have long term strategy with Google, but as you said, you also need other eggs in your basket, too, but their are literally thousands and thousands and beyond sites that never have problems with Google because they do what Google tells them to do and have built that trust up over time, which imo is an important factor, not a quick buck in a few months, but think long term and not take shortcuts.

    I would agree that people who do take the shortcuts need to realise that it won't last forever and not moan about it when it goes tits up, which is what always happens, you know what you're doing, you got caught, it's their own fault, don't moan about it, either don't do it again or realise the risks you are taking and accept responsibility.
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    • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
      That's true if you want to put A LOT of work into it... However, that can also backfire because you are putting so much time and energy into creating quality content, you don't have any time to make money from it... A specific example, I work in the Real Estate industry... there is an agent that is that master blogger, has put up tons and tons of incredible content, and has great rankings because of it..however, she only closed like 5 or 6 deals last year and only probably made like $30K... She spends so much time creating that quality content "the right way", she has no time to sell homes... In my opinion it's all about finding the right balance...

      Originally Posted by hicksdelight View Post

      I think quite few people would disagree that you cannot have long term strategy with Google, but as you said, you also need other eggs in your basket, too, but their are literally thousands and thousands and beyond sites that never have problems with Google because they do what Google tells them to do and have built that trust up over time, which imo is an important factor, not a quick buck in a few months, but think long term and not take shortcuts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by hicksdelight View Post

      I think quite few people would disagree that you cannot have long term strategy with Google
      Actually anyone who has been doing SEO for even two years knows that once again thats poor SEO knowledge. To hear people push that nonsense to justify their practices you would think that there have not been sites that for years have not been ranked just fine in Google year after year.
      Of course there have been tweaks but when you really think about it when in the last few years has getting great links and having solid content not been a good long term strategy?

      We get this kind of rationalization from marketers who have been relying on things that for years have been known to be things that Google would eventually aim at and clean up. So one day Google finally does and they think "Oh no Google is changing and there is no long term strategy" because they lived on a short term strategy and have to keep switching. From forum profiles , to article blasting, from article blasting to puttin g your links on networks with 100 other links etc etc.

      Seriously when last has the basics changed of making sure your content is decent and you get links form authority sites that don't have gibberish for content? Not in years. So if you have taken that long term strategy its been just basically tweaks you have to make here and there not any major course reversals.

      Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

      Thank you for your parenting advice... I was worried that I was going to have to pay $189 for that stellar information....
      No its free and your welcome. I thought it might come in handy when you have and actually want to raise children
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      • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
        Sometimes quality links / content just isn't enough... plus it is often difficult to maximize profit with that model...

        Of my hour of daily work I do per day, about 10 minutes of it is seo related by running serp reports... the rest of my time is getting all of my non-seo stuff up and running for the day... So let me ask you this, how many websites can you (or the average person) get ranked on page 1 of google if you spend 10 minutes per day on SEO on a $300 / mo budget?... if your answer is less than 20 websites, then I think I will stick with my method...

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Actually anyone who has been doing SEO for even two years knows that once again thats poor SEO knowledge. To hear people push that nonsense to justify their practices you would think that there have not been sites that for years have not been ranked just fine in Google year after year.
        Of course there have been tweaks but when you really think about it when in the last few years has getting great links and having solid content not been a good long term strategy?

        We get this kind of rationalization from marketers who have been relying on things that for years have been known to be things that Google would eventually aim at and clean up. So one day Google finally does and they think "Oh no Google is changing and there is no long term strategy" because they lived on a short term strategy and have to keep switching. From forum profiles , to article blasting, from article blasting to puttin g your links on networks with 100 other links etc etc.

        Seriously when last has the basics changed of making sure your content is decent and you get links form authority sites that don't have gibberish for content? Not in years.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

          Sometimes quality links / content just isn't enough... plus it is often difficult to maximize profit with that model...
          its difficult for anyone to do something they do not know how to do.

          So let me ask you this, how many websites can you (or the average person) get ranked on page 1 of google if you spend 10 minutes per day on SEO on a $300 / mo budget?... if your answer is less than 20 websites, then I think I will stick with my method...
          A) You misunderstand my purpose for posting. its not to change your mind its for others so I don't care what you stick with. More power to you.

          B) where is the magical requirement that anyone needs to have 20 websites. Or even 5 or 50? ROI is dependent on overall traffic and conversion not the quantity of sites. in fact the more sites you have the less efficient your traffic strategy is since most webmasters (especially those claiming to spend less than an hour a day and have a limited budget) find it difficult to populate enough good content or user experience to pick up repeat traffic. They then find themselves merely getting traffic Google sends each month rather than seeing it increase with return traffic.

          C) For someone claiming to be bringing in 4k a months its preposterous to be claiming a limit of $300/month budget unless in fact you are not really making what you claim. By all sensible rational you would increase the budget to increase the yield and net profit.
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          • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
            A) Its always good to have more than one opinion

            B) 20 websites are for various clients I have, not just 1 topic / niche I am trying to monetize using affiliate marketing (I don't do any affiliate marketing)... My requirement is 20 websites to service my clients... That is why I used that number.. In my industry generating dynamic, unique, meaningful content is very easy to do...

            C) I guess technically I am paying a little more if you include domain registration, ISP etc... My money isn't made just from the SEO, that is just a value added service... my money is made by my automation methods that I created myself... So I guess I must be doing something right if it's too hard for you to believe... For interest of full disclosure, I did spend some time and money to create my system, but now that it's up and running, my only variable expenses are what I am outsourcing for SEO, domain registration and ISP... and those only add up to $300-$400 / mo and only require 1 hour per day to maintain...

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            its difficult for anyone to do something they do not know how to do.



            A) You misunderstand my purpose for posting. its not to change your mind its for others so I don't care what you stick with. More power to you.

            B) where is the magical requirement that anyone needs to have 20 websites. Or even 5 or 50? ROI is dependent on overall traffic and conversion not the quantity of sites. in fact the more sites you have the less efficient your traffic strategy is since most webmasters (especially those claiming to spend less than an hour a day and have a limited budget) find it difficult to populate enough good content or user experience to pick up repeat traffic. They then find themselves merely getting traffic Google sends each month rather than seeing it increase with return traffic.

            C) For someone claiming to be bringing in 4k a months its preposterous to be claiming a limit of $300/month budget unless in fact you are not really making what you claim. By all sensible rational you would increase the budget to increase the yield and net profit.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

              my money is made by my automation methods that I created myself... So I guess I must be doing something right if it's too hard for you to believe.
              Nope - has nothing to do with being hard to believe. its not an extravagant income. Its quite simple . I don't believe something just because a poster says it on a forum. People say all kinds of things that are not true when they know they won't have to verify anything. Now if you want to know what I find hard to believe I'll tell you.

              Having children of my own I do find it hard to believe any stay at home parent with very young children has as much time in the morning hours to dedicate to forum posting. But hey that might just be me giving more free non $189 parenting advice

              I don't have my children taking care of but I do have to run and this thread as indicated previously has run its course. unsubscribed
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              • Profile picture of the author PicktownChris
                Grandma is in town watching the kids while I get the privilege of getting such great parenting and seo advice.... you are right about one thing... taking care of young children doesn't leave much time for anything else...

                I hate to see you go

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Nope - has nothing to do with being hard to believe. its not an extravagant income. Its quite simple . I don't believe something just because a poster says it on a forum. People say all kinds of things that are not true when they know they won't have to verify anything. Now if you want to know what I find hard to believe I'll tell you.

                Having children of my own I do find it hard to believe any stay at home parent with very young children has as much time in the morning hours to dedicate to forum posting. But hey that might just be me giving more free non $189 parenting advice

                I don't have my children taking care of but I do have to run and this thread as indicated previously has run its course. unsubscribed
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                • Profile picture of the author Ashera
                  Originally Posted by PicktownChris View Post

                  Grandma is in town watching the kids while I get the privilege of getting such great parenting and seo advice.... you are right about one thing... taking care of young children doesn't leave much time for anything else...

                  I hate to see you go
                  PicktownChris- you claim to be some "SEO Expert" yet you were the one talking about how you use Matt LaClears service to rank your sites? If you knew so much about SEO, you would be handling your own.

                  Got nauseous reading some of your posts. Good day.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                    Originally Posted by Ashera View Post

                    PicktownChris- you claim to be some "SEO Expert" yet you were the one talking about how you use Matt LaClears service to rank your sites? If you knew so much about SEO, you would be handling your own.

                    Got nauseous reading some of your posts. Good day.

                    I have to agree with this. Nobody would call themselves an SEO and use a service like that. Pointing a bunch of rubbish spun PLR is no way to do SEO work for clients that care at all about their online reputation.

                    On the other hand, this might be a good use for it... lol.

                    Originally Posted by michael scott View Post

                    well it's not like matt's services are completely useless...why not point those crap links to your competitors (assuming they are not authority material) and tank them? How much does it run, like $99 a pop? Imagine if you're on #4 and you spend $300 to kill of the top 3 which will make you #1.

                    Matt my man, you need to re-brand yourself as the NEGATIVE LETHAL SEO KUNG POW NINJA. "Want to tank your competitors with crappy links? Look at the sites we've tanked backed by our long list of complaint reviews"
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    Not sure if you're agreeing with me, there.

    First line makes it sound like you're not, but the rest makes it sound like you are.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vija
    You have to be consistent when you build links and try to get quality links, that helps improve your rankings.
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  • Profile picture of the author seosoldier
    Hmmm. I hope this isn't true that Matt's service is getting people slapped. I used his service on my bread and butter pay site. It was down on the 3rd or 4th page of google and within about 4 months his "get on page one of google campaign" got me to page one not only for 1 keyword as promised but for 4 keywords.

    I then started making 4 times the money I'd been making.

    If I get slapped that's going to really suck!

    I did buy a 2nd campaign from Matt for "indexed articles" but now I am wondering if I should use it...?

    It could be that google just can't slap everyone, it's probably kind of like IRS auditing, they randomly find sites to slap but can't possibly find them all... No?

    In any case I think Matt has recommended people remove the google analytics from their site (I think that's true, maybe it was someone else...?) and I do think that's a good idea if you're using any kind of "gray" hat techniques.

    While totally white hat techniques are ideal, in some niches it just isn't going to work and if your competitors are benefiting by black hat or gray hat techniques you have to compete with them in the same way or you'll stay back on page 2, 3 or worse... IMHO.
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    • Profile picture of the author daisy172
      Any update on this situation?

      Have your rankings improved again after building fresh quality links?
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      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by daisy172 View Post

        Any update on this situation?

        Have your rankings improved again after building fresh quality links?
        None of my old sites have recovered.
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        Somewhere watching Power.

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  • Profile picture of the author domainarama
    One of the ideas I learned from reading nest28's threads is making post titles questions. As time allows I have been going back over my posts and re-titling posts into questions. I just checked the posts which were viewed yesterday. Shoot, all the posts on one blog which were viewed yesterday were re-titled posts. Every one of them! I think nest28 is onto something! Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    Rankings drop, CPC goes goes up by nearly 100%, coincidence?
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Denise, the link count may give you some foresight into what might happen with your site but I would be looking at ranking changes rather than drops in links. If you remained solid over the last couple of weeks then you should be fine to keep moving forward with your current promotion techniques. If you were going to get hit hard it would have happened already with the latest cull...
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  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    I reread this entire thread, and a few other I made from this time frame, it's good to see where your thinking process was, and where it is now. I was close to making good sites, but kept making the same mistake, which was thinking the only way to make money is to make sites based on CPC,search volume, instead of making a site that based on my own interests.

    I asked "how can I rank a site without building backlinks" I know now that building a brand, getting direct traffic is the best bet. Promote your site and people do link for you.

    Since this thread was originally started I haven't build any real sites, didn't want to until I was sure of what type of site I wanted to make.


    I've had people call me a failure because of this thread, people have told me I don't know what I'm talking about, all because my income dropped. Well I rather take time off and decided whats best for my IM career than to have made 100 EMDs, or fake authority sites.

    People really need to stop and take a look at what you are doing, if you build site just for money, there's a good chance greed will get in the way of building a site for people.

    Everyone wants to know what's the best CTR theme, instead of focusing on their visitor satisfaction.


    Anyways to everyone who says "how will people find my sites if I don't backlink?" the answer is promote your sites, all day, everyday, and if it's worthy, than people will link.



    Edit: How do people find these old threads anyways lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    Nest, build a site in a niche that you love BUT don't ignore things like search numbers and CPCs. Also, focus on just 1-2 sites instead of many.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

      Nest, build a site in a niche that you love BUT don't ignore things like search numbers and CPCs. Also, focus on just 1-2 sites instead of many.
      Actually the only thing I'm working on right now is anti-marketers.com, basically the opposite of niche pursuits and smart passive income. The reason I say forget search and cpc, is if I love bodybuilding, and wanted to make a site on working out, why would I need to do keyword research instead of just writing natural.


      I mean as long as you know you not going after some obscure niche, you should be fine. Beside some niches automatically have high search and cpc, protein shakes and supplements usually get 2,3,4 dollar clicks from my experience, and everyone is looking to either lose weight or gain muscle. So I wouldn't feel the need to research something that is of personal interest, you should already know about your niche if it's your passion.

      That's the whole point.

      From this point on, every site will be made based on personal interest, not keyword research. That's what everybody else does, don't get me wrong, there is plenty of money to be made from that way of thinking, it's just not for me.

      Thanks for the advice, your one of the coolest people here, always gave me advice, never insulted me, and that's rare around these parts, I gotta visit your forum to, been so busy haven't had a chance lately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    ^^ but you don't know the exact metrics. Most major online publishers do keyword/trend research, no matter how well they know their niches.

    I guess what I'm saying is this: keyword research isn't bad. Being an expert on a topic AND knowing SERP trends and other issues is actually a huge advantage which should be utilized if you are in this to make money (in the end). This doesn't apply for purely hobby sites, but even then some of the top bloggers do keyword/trend research when editing their posts/articles. There is nothing "evil" about it.

    But of course if you associate keyword research with something negative (whatever it may be) and find that it is stopping your progress - by all means do what your heart is telling you to do! Get shit done - whatever it takes.
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  • Profile picture of the author humili
    There must be some tools and methods you are using at the moment that is not ideal in the eyes of Google.

    To build your site back to its former state, you seriously might want to have a look at your onpage factor and the way you go about building backlinks.

    If you are using many automated tools at the moment, it might be a good move to shift to some tools that is search engine friendly and "natural" to the search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

    Recently I have seen couple of my sites lose rankings but thought nothing of it, normally they always bounce back. Today all sites received the unnatural backlinks message. One site in question only had 372 backlinks from Matt Laclear's drip feed service while the others only had few thousand from various sources. Visitors have drop down to almost none since yesterday and so has my income. I don't know how to rank sites without building backlinks but if I do than I'll probably receive the same notice from google. This even has me thinking of returning to law enforcement something I hate doing but I am really good at it.

    the psychiatric nurse practitioner

    Edit: My girlfriend just ask me did I use bmr and I forgot I did have just a couple links from them on all my sites. I signed up for them a day before they close their doors and thought I had gotten lucky lol.
    No offense to Matt LaClear, but I stopped using his services when he said in a thread somewhere months ago that he buys thousands of .info's then just moves the content over the new .info's when they expire each year. I'm not exactly sure how that is even close to worth paying for as a link builder, but if its effective for people then it obviously has value - I'm just not willing to risk it for any of my sites...

    Essentially, any link building service can result in an unnatural link building notification...Google's created a situation where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. You just have be very conservative and patient anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author seosoldier
    I have an emd with NO unnatural link building - maybe a little, but not much; nothing like thousands of links via senuke or something, just maybe some social monkee and socialadr bookmarks - and it was KILLED by the emd update.

    What gets me is that a competitor with an exact match emd did not get hit at all. Do you think that has to do with the fact that he does thousands of dollars of advertising on google adwords each month? I sure do.

    Also, has anyone else noticed that ONLY SITES WITH HIGH PR are ranking on google now? Not sure if this is true for all niches but it's sure true for about 8 that I've checked - 8 out of 8 have 90% PR 4,5,6 on p1 with maybe one or two PR3's and MAYBE - not always - one PR 0 or 1. Seems almost like a set percentage, as above (i.e.; 90% PR above 4, 10% PR 2 or less)
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    Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Okay, gents. Please stop the games.
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    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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