In some of your eyes, google can do no wrong

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Seems like everytime Google breaks something and or abuses their power(seemingly increasingly so as of late) there's always a handful of you defending them to the end...and I just want to say I find that really unfortunate. Google has too much power, this isn't an opinion, this is a fact. But with the new US law where google and the other big companies give free reign to the gov with no warrants on user data(which I believe google and FB actually cheered on), I don't see anyone stopping them now, as they continue to impose their monopoly on everything. It's sad what's happening, even sadder is big corps abuse of patents and no one seems to care...patents were made to protect the small fish from the big fish stealing his ideas...instead whats its done is allow big fish to patent any and everything and completely control markets and suppress innovation...lot of these businesses need not create another thing ever, and they'll still be profitable, because they know they can sue anyone who trys to actually innovate thanks to their patent abuse...
#eyes #google #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author Mosa
    Googles a beast. They do what they want. I wonder what would happen if they suddenly just went down though... that would be a scary scenario.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashtree
      Originally Posted by Mosa View Post

      Googles a beast. They do what they want. I wonder what would happen if they suddenly just went down though... that would be a scary scenario.
      maybe people would use a search engine that's proven to be BETTER in some cases, cough bing.com....
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      • Profile picture of the author Mosa
        Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

        maybe people would use a search engine that's proven to be BETTER in some cases, cough bing.com....
        In your opinion, what makes bing better?
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        • Profile picture of the author John F Kennedy
          Google has the monopoly, you're right

          But, they seem to be intent on clearing up the net and diminishing crap sites/content.

          I think they are heading in the right direction so at the moment, I am happy with their stance..

          If they had the monopoly but were just after the money my opinion would be somewhat different but at the mo, I think they are doing just fine
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          • Profile picture of the author BTbuzz
            Originally Posted by John F Kennedy View Post

            Google has the monopoly, you're right

            But, they seem to be intent on clearing up the net and diminishing crap sites/content.

            I think they are heading in the right direction so at the moment, I am happy with their stance..

            If they had the monopoly but were just after the money my opinion would be somewhat different but at the mo, I think they are doing just fine
            It's like war, some innocent people die during the battle, after the dust settles, they'll be honors cheers and rebuilding. buried causality reports.
            Classic history.
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          • Profile picture of the author Carl Brown
            But, they seem to be intent on clearing up the net and diminishing crap sites/content.
            THAT's the root of the problem. THEY have the largest search engine. WE want to make money off that search engine.

            THEY set the rules and tell us that their goal is to provide the searcher with the best sites pertaining to their searches.

            Instead of giving them what they want, we look for ways to move up in the rankings without providing the best site on our chosen topic.

            Then we blame Google when our games catch up with us and we lose our rankings.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mosa View Post

      Googles a beast. They do what they want. I wonder what would happen if they suddenly just went down though... that would be a scary scenario.
      Yeah what happens then

      Anyway, Google IS acting strange lately, I see some odd results in the rankings and some of my sites jump up like never seen before, while others dropped due to the deindexing, nothing new there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Give it 3-4 more years, and Google will be the least of your worries. Everything is cyclical. In the meantime, which specific changes should marketers be crying out against exactly?

    Seems like whining here more than real indignation.
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  • Profile picture of the author NikNak
    I agree there do seem to be a lot of Rottweiler’s here who are very keen to defend their all too powerful monopolist master, I imagine their master will have to treat them a little meaner before they will turn on him, but I am sure the day will come and by that time I reckon there will be far more PPC marketers than those who use organic SEO.

    All the best,

    NikNak
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  • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
    Google knows you posted this... Better watch your back.
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  • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
    You cant blame googles just because their fanboys have their heads 5 feet up their own ass.

    Apple has them too

    Facebook has them too

    Microsoft has ... wtf why doesnt MS have fanboys?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
      Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post


      Microsoft has ... wtf why doesnt MS have fanboys?
      They do. Lots of butt hurt people from google's last update are now Bing fanboys.
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    • Profile picture of the author NikNak
      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      Google knows you posted this... Better watch your back.
      LOL, probably but I imagine their dung list is too big these days for even them to keep track of.

      Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

      Yu cant blame googles just because their fanboys have their heads 5 feet up their own ass.

      Apple has them too

      Facebook has them too

      Microsoft has ... wtf why doesnt MS have fanboys?
      I don't actually blame Google for anything, just the relevant authorities for not intervening and restoring a healthy sense of competition back to the market as well as their Rottweiler's who continue to protect them. But like I say when they get hungry enough the dogs will turn.

      All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author paulgl
    MS has no online fans because their online stuff is crapola. Period.
    I pity the Nook, as BN is letting MS partner with them. Pity. They
    are doing it out of desperation, as kindle android is really killing everybody.

    Google is a business. For themselves, their customers, and their stockholders.


    Has nothing to do with what people think is personal. Google is not involved in your
    life, nor should they be.

    As far as patents go, people buy and sell them. it's a common practice, especially
    in technology. Google buys, sells, just like everyone else.

    I just can't believe how people think a company should be involved with their lives.

    Really crazy when you think about it.

    I remember when Circuit City went out of business. How would you feel
    if people jumped on the internet, whining about how Best Buy, Amazon,
    etc. have now ruined their lives as they can no longer go to Circuit City.

    Sound silly? Of course.

    Coke has monopolies at many facilities. If you drink Pepsi, does Coke
    and these business partnerships ruin your life?

    Silly.

    Google would love all the people who shmoozed their algo over
    the years to take a hike.

    But don't think Bing will be buying. They would be stupid.
    Well, stupider than what Bing is now if that were possible.

    It does bring up a good point. Don't like google? Use Bing!
    Maybe you and your friends can improve them so much,
    they'll only lose one billion$ this year.

    Google teamed up with Amazon years ago. MS today teams
    with BN. I can't be the only one who thinks that's the kiss
    of death for Nook, just like Yahoo.

    If you think Bing is so great, just look at what they did with Yahoo.

    Amazon will probably put Best Buy out of business. So?

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

      MS has no online fans because their online stuff is crapola. Period.
      I pity the Nook, as BN is letting MS partner with them. Pity. They
      are doing it out of desperation, as kindle android is really killing everybody.

      Google is a business. For themselves, their customers, and their stockholders.


      Has nothing to do with what people think is personal. Google is not involved in your
      life, nor should they be.

      As far as patents go, people buy and sell them. it's a common practice, especially
      in technology. Google buys, sells, just like everyone else.

      I just can't believe how people think a company should be involved with their lives.

      Really crazy when you think about it.

      I remember when Circuit City went out of business. How would you feel
      if people jumped on the internet, whining about how Best Buy, Amazon,
      etc. have now ruined their lives as they can no longer go to Circuit City.

      Sound silly? Of course.

      Coke has monopolies at many facilities. If you drink Pepsi, does Coke
      and these business partnerships ruin your life?

      Silly.

      Google would love all the people who shmoozed their algo over
      the years to take a hike.

      But don't think Bing will be buying. They would be stupid.
      Well, stupider than what Bing is now if that were possible.

      It does bring up a good point. Don't like google? Use Bing!
      Maybe you and your friends can improve them so much,
      they'll only lose one billion$ this year.

      Google teamed up with Amazon years ago. MS today teams
      with BN. I can't be the only one who thinks that's the kiss
      of death for Nook, just like Yahoo.

      If you think Bing is so great, just look at what they did with Yahoo.

      Amazon will probably put Best Buy out of business. So?

      Paul

      I dont see people making the case that google should be involved in their lives, they are complaining that they should be treated fairly in an open marketplace and dont think this is happening. The mistake they are making is that google is neither fair or an open market place.


      Your yahoo analogy is not apt as yahoo was done long before bing got there to pick up the pieces, bing did completely absorb their market share however and bings market share continues to grow.
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    • Profile picture of the author NikNak
      The bottom line is it doesn’t matter how good an individual company Google is and call it a monopoly if you want and don’t if you don’t, but whatever you want to call it any market place that is so heavily dominated by just one company and with such a serious lack of real competition is extremely unhealthy and very bad for everyone in the long term. That’s all there is to it and why someone needs to intervene as it doesn’t look like things are going to change by themselves, regardless of how good the economic theory is it clearly hasn’t worked well in this particular market place and something needs to change. If someone can prove me wrong I would love to hear it.

      All the best,

      NikNak
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    • Profile picture of the author honestbiz
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post


      Google is a business. For themselves, their customers, and their stockholders.


      Has nothing to do with what people think is personal. Google is not involved in your
      life, nor should they be.

      As far as patents go, people buy and sell them. it's a common practice, especially
      in technology. Google buys, sells, just like everyone else.

      I just can't believe how people think a company should be involved with their lives.

      Really crazy when you think about it.
      Ah, but it is that crazy, Paul. They ARE involved with your lives, whether you know it, are aware of it, or want it/don't want it.

      Here, pull your head out of the sand....

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/te...tion.html?_r=1

      Google has close ties with all the US alphabet agencies, like NSA, CIA, FBI, and who knows what else....They have A LOT of data at their disposal due to them being so pervasive in our lives.

      Personally, I would be a lot more comfortable if the balance of power wasn't so heavily swung in their direction.

      And since their search engine quality went south....I'd rather they just got rid of their search engine and just became an ad provider now (Adsense/Adwords). After all, that's one of the main reasons for their existence....

      Wouldn't hurt them so much aside from having to be a lot nicer towards us webmasters. That search engine has become quite irrelevant if you ask me.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by honestbiz View Post

        That search engine has become quite irrelevant if you ask me.
        Not even remotely close to accurate.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Repeat after me....

    IMers are not Google's customers...

    IMers are not Google's customers...

    Searchers are Google's customers...


    PaulGL has said it a million times (at least I think it was PaulGL).

    For every webmaster who loses a ranking, another one gains one.
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Repeat after me....

      IMers are not Google's customers...

      IMers are not Google's customers...

      Searchers are Google's customers...

      INCORRECT !!

      searchers are googles chattle

      IMers are googles customers, in fact they are googles ONLY customers.

      The guy at Walmart that controls millions of ppc dollars THAT IS an IMer
      The guy at a movie studio who puts all those trailers on other utube videos is an IMer.

      What you meant to say is small time IMers are not worth googles attention.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post


        IMers are googles customers, in fact they are googles ONLY customers.
        Sorry, that's just not the case no matter how many IMers want to believe it. It's simply not the case.

        Google has been pretty clear about who they consider to be their customers. IMers are not.
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        • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Sorry, that's just not the case no matter how many IMers want to believe it. It's simply not the case.

          Google has been pretty clear about who they consider to be their customers. IMers are not.

          no disrespect man but who cares who google says their customers are? are you kidding me / seriously?

          Googles customers are people who buy access to their chattel, the chattel is NOT their clientele.

          Lets put it this way if all google had as searchers would they make any money? no because their customers are the IMers who buy ads or ppc
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

            no disrespect man but who cares who google says their customers are? are you kidding me / seriously?
            It's not up to us to define who Google's customers are. It's their business. They know who their customers are.
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        • Profile picture of the author HCRoyo
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Sorry, that's just not the case no matter how many IMers want to believe it. It's simply not the case.

          Google has been pretty clear about who they consider to be their customers. IMers are not.

          But IM'ers are the ones putting up content for the searchers (though I admit most IM'ers put up crappy content)

          Google has to at least consider those white-hat, legit sites that were affected by the latest update.
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          • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
            Originally Posted by HCRoyo View Post

            But IM'ers are the ones putting up content for the searchers (though I admit most IM'ers put up crappy content)

            Google has to at least consider those white-hat, legit sites that were affected by the latest update.
            I dont really feel like google has to do anything as they are a private enterprise, but content providers are still not their customers. they are the people goolge uses to sell ads.

            the ad buyers are their customers plain and simple. google searchers are at best an audience.
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            • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
              Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

              google searchers are at best an audience.
              Google searchers are the bloodline of their business. Without searchers, they have no Adwords program. Hence, searchers are their primary customers.
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              • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
                Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                Google searchers are the bloodline of their business. Without searchers, they have no Adwords program. Hence, searchers are their primary customers.
                i would say searchers are their primary audience. Its just like any other advertising company the customer isnt the viewer it is the person who puts up the cash to reach the viewer.

                If i walk through a mc donalds and use their bathroom i am no their customer, if i BUY something i am.
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                • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                  Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post


                  If i walk through a mc donalds and use their bathroom i am no their customer, if i BUY something i am.
                  Bad analogy. Using your analogy, McDonalds would still have their paying customers (who come there because of the quality) whether you walked in to use the bathroom or not.

                  Google would not have paying AdWords customers if they did not have their other customer base - searchers.

                  Google is a unique animal. They have two customer bases:

                  • Paying advertisers who advertise via PPC to searchers
                  • Searchers to whom Google provides information retrieval services

                  The first one doesn't exist without the second one (audience). The audience doesn't stick around if the search quality sucks.
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                  • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
                    Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                    Bad analogy. Using your analogy, McDonalds would still have their paying customers whether you walked in to use the bathroom or not.

                    Google would not have paying AdWords customers if they did not have their other customer base - searchers.

                    Google is a unique animal. They have two customer bases:

                    • Paying advertisers who advertise via PPC to searchers
                    • Searchers to whom Google provides information retrieval services
                    The first one doesn't exist without the second one (audience). The audience doesn't stick around if the search quality sucks.


                    Google is not unique at all, it is an advertising company.
                    Google is no different from a tv station. The viewers or searchers are the audience and the advertisers are the customers.

                    please excuse all the mispellings i think my keyboard is on the fritz
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                    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                      Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

                      Google is no different from a tv station. The viewers or searchers are the audience and the advertisers are the customers.
                      Without the audience, TV stations could not sell advertising. How do they build their audiences? They provide quality content. Just like Google.

                      And trust me guys, I'm not a Google fan-boy. I've suffered decreased revenue as have others. Although, my stable of sites allows me to sustain such swings since I use various SEO techniques so I always have something ranking.

                      That said, I do see Google for what it is and I don't delude myself into thinking that they should (or do) care about me. They do not. Nor should they.
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                      • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
                        Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                        Without the audience, TV stations could not sell advertising. How do they build their audiences? They provide quality content. Just like Google.

                        And trust me guys, I'm not a Google fan-boy. I've suffered decreased revenue as have others. Although, my stable of sites allows me to sustain such swings since I use various SEO techniques so I always have something ranking.

                        That said, I do see Google for what it is and I don't delude myself into thinking that they should (or do) care about me. They do not. Nor should they.

                        You are right google definately needs an audience, but that really doesnt mean that the audience is customers.

                        I do believe for the most part google offers quality content but not much better than anyone else these days ( that is thanks to google raising the bar a decade ago)
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                        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                          Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

                          You are right google definately needs an audience, but that really doesnt mean that the audience is customers.
                          Searchers visit Google in search of information (information retrieval services). Google provides these services (SERPs). As such, Google is providing services to customers.
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                          • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
                            Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                            Searchers visit Google in search of information (information retrieval services). Google provides these services (SERPs). As such, Google is providing services to customers.

                            as such, google is providing content to an audience which they then sell access to that audience to their customers
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                            • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                              Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

                              as such, google is providing content to an audience which they then sell access to that audience to their customers
                              You are playing semantics to suit your argument. A person requesting a service from a business (or other person), is, by definition, a customer.

                              Sorry, that's just a fact. I didn't make that up. It is what it is. Sure, you can use "audience" and "customers" interchangeably but it doesn't eliminate the fact that searchers are "customers" in Google's eyes.
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                              • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
                                Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                                You are playing semantics to suit your argument. A person requesting a service from a business (or other person), is, by definition, a customer.

                                Sorry, that's just a fact. I didn't make that up. It is what it is. Sure, you can use "audience" and "customers" interchangeably but it doesn't eliminate the fact that searchers are "customers" in Google's eyes.
                                actually i would suggest you are doing the stretching of logic not me. This business model is as old as time and the audience has never been the customer in this equation.

                                When radio stations did it the audience was the audience not the customer

                                When tv companies did it the audience was still the audience not the customer

                                When google does this exact same business model the audience is still an audince NOT the customer

                                Googles searchers may use a service in the same way radio listeners or tv viewers do but still doesnt make them a customer.
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by HCRoyo View Post

            But IM'ers are the ones putting up content for the searchers
            This is not true. You are making a false assumption that it is just IMers adding content. There are millions and millions of pages (maybe billions) that have nothing to do with IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author NikNak
    How about repeating this one after me... Such a serious lack of real competition is extremely unhealthy in any market and very bad for everyone in the long term.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by NikNak View Post

      How about repeating this one after me... Such a serious lack of real competition is extremely unhealthy in any market and very bad for everyone in the long term.
      There IS competition. Would I prefer BETTER competition? Sure. However, the statement by many folks that there is no competition is just plain not accurate.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Id much rather see the smaller guys given a chance. Blekko, duckduckgo etc

    Yahoo and Bing are just another Google with a different logo.
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Id much rather see the smaller guys given a chance. Blekko, duckduckgo etc

      Yahoo and Bing are just another Google with a different logo.

      the future of search will almost certainly involve social proof. So if a facebook or other large social media entity launches a quality search engine we could easily see 3 people in this space with about the same market share.

      Google has no social proof mechanism which is why it wants google+ to work so badly. It has nothing to be able to compete with what social proof can provide.
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  • Profile picture of the author goosefrabah
    I think the main problem is that they control so much of the market. I have tried yandex.com recently and I think their results are better. Just my opinion
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by goosefrabah View Post

      I think the main problem is that they control so much of the market. I have tried yandex.com recently and I think their results are better. Just my opinion

      in fairness googles search market share i think is about the same as MS pc market share. there is viable competition.

      alot of this comes down to you are either google dependent for your traffic or not. to this point i am 100% google dependent but that comes with putting up with their garbage. If i dont like it i can go somewhere else.

      I choose to take the risk of playing by my own rules as I know playing by theirs means the small guy has little or no chance.
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      • Profile picture of the author goosefrabah
        Originally Posted by dracoboar View Post

        in fairness googles search market share i think is about the same as MS pc market share. there is viable competition.

        alot of this comes down to you are either google dependent for your traffic or not. to this point i am 100% google dependent but that comes with putting up with their garbage. If i dont like it i can go somewhere else.

        I choose to take the risk of playing by my own rules as I know playing by theirs means the small guy has little or no chance.
        I definitely agree with what you are saying. It is truly our choice to deal with them and to be honest it is fun to keep adapting. To a point that is
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  • Profile picture of the author NikNak
    I suspect that many of the people who are so keen to defend Google are doing so because they personally are still doing ok out of them, I don’t see many arguments based on reason, logic or any kind of principles what so ever as to why it is good to have such an uncompetitive market.

    I personally have now diversified into something that isn’t so reliant on keeping in favour with the big G so personally I am not that bothered anymore, if this sort of situation benefits you then fine. But narrow self serving interests aside only a mad man can’t see that this sort of situation is not a good thing. Why would anyone argue in favour of such an uncompetitive market place?

    All the best,

    NikNak
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by NikNak View Post

      Why would anyone argue in favour of such an uncompetitive market place?
      It is not an uncompetitive marketplace. As I said earlier, I'd like to see better competition but to say there is none is simply not accurate.
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by NikNak View Post

      I suspect that many of the people who are so keen to defend Google are doing so because they personally are still doing ok out of them
      I would argue just the opposite. The only ones complaining are those who haven't mastered Google.

      The mere fact that many are doing very well with Google illustrates that it can be done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rafay Zafar
    I have to admit, i am a google fan. Amongst many other things,

    1) it sends me free traffic from all over the world
    2) it sends me paid traffic, from exact keywords, locations and time of the day of my choice
    3) it connects me to hundreds of advertisers via adsense and google affiliate network to make money from my sites
    4) it gives me free email and apps
    5) it gives me a free blog
    6) it gives me free space to upload and share my videos and photos
    7) it gives me a free/cheap infrastructure to develop, launch and scale cloud based apps.
    8) it gives me searchable maps with directions from all over the globe
    9) it gives me a free places page so that i can promote my business via local search and maps
    10) it gives me all the info i want with a click of a button.

    I think i would struggle online without google. The only thing it doesnt give me is a place to stay connected with friends and family and network with pros. unfortunately, most of my friends dont even know about google plus so i have to stick with facebook for now.
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  • Profile picture of the author RayW
    Searchers are not exactly their customers, people who buy Adwords are their customers. But searchers are the backbone of their Adwords program.
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    • Profile picture of the author dracoboar
      Originally Posted by RayW View Post

      Searchers are not exactly their customers, people who buy Adwords are their customers. But searchers are the backbone of their Adwords program.

      exactly.

      Also remember this arguement started over the statement that Imers are not googles customers, but since PPC buyers are by definition IMers they absolutely are.
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  • Profile picture of the author NikNak
    It will be interesting to see how people will justify Google spying on us and stealing our personal data, that said when people have a motive they will justify anything. Tune into today's news for those who don't already know yet.
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