All my sites were "penalized" today. Anyone else?

by brchap
173 replies
  • SEO
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All my sites (I have about 30 of them) dropped in rank today, mostly about 50 or more places according my handy little iPhone app that use to check on my stats.

I had used ALN on some of these in the past, but certainly not all of them. Nothing dark-hat... maybe a little grey... no spammy comments or profile links. Many of these sites were ranking on some very good juice, like guest posts and Web 2.0 properties that I had manually built myself.... stuff like that.

Maybe it's a fluke... Maybe not. My sites have bounced around before, and I usually don't panic too much since I'm used to watching them dance. But, they normally don't all move down that much, and definitely not all at once. These are all pretty mature sites... most of them a couple of years old.

I have a VPS (Virtual Private Server) with Liquid Web, and most of these sites were on a single IP address. All of them were in the same Google Analytics account. Could Google be penalizing me by IP address, or by linking everything via my Google Analytics account?

Interesting, to say the least.

Anyone else seeing this?
#penalized #sites #today
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  • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
    If you had used ALN on all of them, then that would explain
    it - since most of the "public" blogs have been deindexed. But
    since that's not just the case, what to do is either wait and
    see if they all improve in rankings or add more unique articles
    and get better quality backlinks.

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  • Profile picture of the author IJR112
    I got hit. Not sure what to do now.
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  • Profile picture of the author wAvision
    i did too...looks like tons of people have..
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  • Profile picture of the author llank
    Lots of people losing rankings. All kinds of junk is popping up on the first pages right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    My site has TANKED and I've never used ALN. For instance one page on e-commerce site I've been working on three keywords. In google.

    keyword 1 = #5
    keyword 2 = #11
    keyword 3 = #8

    And now!

    keyword 1 = #28 but on a different page
    keyword 2 = gone
    keyword 3 = gone
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    Do a search for viagra right now. The results are pretty funny. In the top ten is an edu site that has been hacked and forwards to a viagra site. Classic.

    Google sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JPRoss View Post

      Do a search for viagra right now. The results are pretty funny. In the top ten is an edu site that has been hacked and forwards to a viagra site. Classic.

      Google sucks.
      That's funny. What I would like to know is how this site
      Evaluations: Northern Kentucky University

      Which has nothing to do with Viagra comes up on the first page when you type in Viagra
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    I will have no traffic tomorrow. Sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author GetSomeDollar
    My E-Commerce site has also tanked big time. Multiple #1 Rankings gone to page 11,12,13 and beyond.
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  • Profile picture of the author IJR112
    I'm pretty ticked off. Google is doing what they think is right even if it means that some legitimate websites get killed from their actions. The end result is some really meaningless irrelevant websites are ranking highly for no good reason. Nice move google, way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    Sorry for so many posts. Pretty clear that google is passing NEGATIVE link juice from sites they consider spammy.

    I've got pages with NO links and virtually NO content out ranking pages with very good, unique content, that has backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author BTbuzz
      Originally Posted by JPRoss View Post

      Sorry for so many posts. Pretty clear that google is passing NEGATIVE link juice from sites they consider spammy.

      I've got pages with NO links and virtually NO content out ranking pages with very good, unique content, that has backlinks.
      Seems right now all kinds of chaos will go on as they try to sweep the streets and balance what is left.
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  • Profile picture of the author seoleaf
    Same thing happen to me....few sites of mine went down like flies just this morning.
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    Suspending all my link building campaigns till I can decide what to do next.
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  • Profile picture of the author brchap
    Well, I don't think that lack of quality is my problem. I have always focused on quality and many of my sites have articles that exceed 1000 words in length.

    What's even stranger (in my case) is that I have several sites that were ranking very well on age and great content alone (no keyword stuffing)... with absolutely ZERO back links... and even those sites took nose dives.

    The only thing linking all these sites together were the IP address and the fact that they were all on the same Google Analytics account. If Google is penalizing all my sites because I used ALN on a few, it seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    It's a real shame.

    Ironically, yesterday was one of my best earning days EVER. I made a little over $127 in Amazon Affiliate commissions and about $32 from Adsense. This may not seem like a lot of money to some people on here, but it wasn't bad for me since I haven't quit my day job yet. I don't think tomorrow's income report is going to look quite that good.

    C'est la vie! LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author dallas2g5
    My sites took a nose dive also.
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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      I've been working on a site for the past 2 months, building web 2.0 pages, uploading youtube videos, submitting articles, blog commenting.

      Peaked at serp 21 about a week ago, hung around 24.

      Today, serp 41... wtf!

      So... what exactly are we supposed to do link building wise?
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      • Profile picture of the author brchap
        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        I've been working on a site for the past 2 months, building web 2.0 pages, uploading youtube videos, submitting articles, blog commenting.

        Peaked at serp 21 about a week ago, hung around 24.

        Today, serp 41... wtf!

        So... what exactly are we supposed to do link building wise?
        I have some sites like that too. Lot's of very "clean" links, such as Web 2.0 stuff, YouTube videos, manually written articles (no spun content), etc... and those sites took diggers too.

        I don't really get it.

        What are the chances that Google is doing some sort of "Reboot" of the entire network? Are they trying to put the fear of God into everyone with a website?

        If any newbies were thinking of getting into SEO now, they are probably reconsidering their decision now... and perhaps THAT is Google's objective with all of this craziness.
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  • Profile picture of the author goosefrabah
    The issue I am seeing with Google is that they are penalizing sites based on other sites past links. Okay that may be confusing but I have 50 sites, all of them tanked. Some were very highly linked from thousands of sources naturally. However, they all tanked in the rankings. Site A linked to another relevant site, we call Site B. Site A did have one post go to a blog network (really hurt the sites I used them on). Now Site B has tanked with only natural links. I know linking to your own site may seem unnatural but 1 on topic link shouldn't be a site killer.

    If a site is penalized and links to another site, is it going to hurt that site? For some sites I am using it seems to be the case.

    P.S. None of my sites are thin and lack quality content. Most have 100+ posts on them and are all written personally.
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    • Profile picture of the author RayFinckle
      All websites tanked, lets hope they fix this crazy nonsense, the new sites ranking are **** and low quality.
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    • Originally Posted by goosefrabah View Post

      The issue I am seeing with Google is that they are penalizing sites based on other sites past links. Okay that may be confusing but I have 50 sites, all of them tanked. Some were very highly linked from thousands of sources naturally.
      If this is the case, I would assume that this is a large-scale "Google Dance". Probably just Google shifting stuff around while they update their algorithm. If everyone's sites never come back, THEN I'd believe it is some sort of penalty. But the fact that some sites with normal, natural backlinks are also seeing this leads me to believe that it's simply a "Google Dance" and not something to slit your wrists over.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Wow, Never put all your eggs in one basket. To Google what goes around comes around.
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    • Profile picture of the author lifesofree
      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

      Wow, Never put all your eggs in one basket. To Google what goes around comes around.
      Don't think you've read only one of the posts in this thread. OP said nothing about one basket.
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    • Profile picture of the author No1here
      One site got heavily demoted, it had very few backlinks from various places. Another site, which has age on it's side as well as TONS of various quality backlinks (Bought and Xrumer blast for it 2 years ago) that I created myself as well as other methods seems to be holding it's own and staying partly where it's always been. Too bad it's not a money site.

      Web 2.0 blogs seem to be doing better than the site that tanked. I'm hoping that it'll come back as it's a fairly new site that has only original content and growing daily. I'm not going to stop adding content to it, if worse come to worse I'll just pull the database and use it for a brand spanking new domain.

      Right now I think it's mostly sit and wait time.

      Did I mention that this really sucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cecil Dee
    I've noticed a significant boost in traffic for just about all my sites I'm optimizing. One thing I noticed about your sites Bradley is that your hosting account uses the same ip for all your websites and you use analytics and probably webmaster tools for all your sites also. This alone is making your sites tank once the link is made with ALN by Google. Use something like Article Ranks for article submissions and GetClicky for analytics. In my view they are just as good if not better than GA & with real time stats. If that doesn't work after 45 days, you may want to set up some redirects for your sites and see if you gain any of your juice back. You'd fare much better with seperate c class ips for your sites or if not in the budget, get a hostgator reseller account and ditch analytics for a paid alternative, there are many and some are very good. Best of luck to you. BTW, there's always paid traffic, just a thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      Originally Posted by Cecil Dee View Post

      BTW, there's always paid traffic, just a thought.
      Such as Google Ads?

      I've heard some cynics say that this is Googles end game.

      My site is not even an affiliate site, it's a bloody school I'm helping out with, no affiliate ads on there.

      I imagine, if you're site is an affiliate site, which 99% on here would be, then their going to make it even tougher to rank.

      Just checked my affiliate sites, and they've all been hit.

      I've never used ALN, just old school methods... now what?

      My youtube pages and hubpages seemed to have moved up though.

      Just checked bing, and ranking on top for my keywords... c'mon Google!
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      • Profile picture of the author Cecil Dee
        No question, google ads is a powerhouse however for many it is not a viable option. This is ok b/c Google isn't the only player in town. There are quite a few paid ad sources that rival Google ads pretty good and even outperform Google ads when comparing ROI. (Of course results can and will vary) One being Microsoft adcenter and there are about 15 more that come to mind immediately. I like to think of Google as a powerful tool in my toolbox of many tools to get the job done. If you have this approach then I suspect these different algorithm changes here and there will not tank your business(es). Someone earlier on this thread alluded to this. Find other sources of traffic.


        Originally Posted by thedog View Post

        Such as Google Ads?

        I've heard some cynics say that this is Googles end game.

        My site is not even an affiliate site, it's a bloody school I'm helping out with, no affiliate ads on there.

        I imagine, if you're site is an affiliate site, which 99% on here would be, then their going to make it even tougher to rank.

        Just checked my affiliate sites, and they've all been hit.

        I've never used ALN, just old school methods... now what?

        My youtube pages and hubpages seemed to have moved up though.

        Just checked bing, and ranking on top for my keywords... c'mon Google!
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    • Profile picture of the author mikeb209
      All my sites tanked except for one. I really hope this is temporary cause I just started making about $15 a day with Adsense for the last couple months. Today so far I only made $2 measly bucks. This is very demotivating.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jit Lim
        Personally I would not be using Google Analytics, its like giving keys to the door. Also spread across multiple IPs. Google is smart enough to find out how all your sites are interlinked if you use Analytics and same IP and all sites could go down like a pack of cards.
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        • Profile picture of the author thedog
          Originally Posted by Jit Lim View Post

          Personally I would not be using Google Analytics, its like giving keys to the door. Also spread across multiple IPs. Google is smart enough to find out how all your sites are interlinked if you use Analytics and same IP and all sites could go down like a pack of cards.
          So, using analytics really has a negative effect?

          In that case, anyone know any good FREE alternatives?

          getclicky is good, but you can only use 1 domain.
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          • Profile picture of the author Anna_O
            Originally Posted by thedog View Post

            So, using analytics really has a negative effect?

            In that case, anyone know any good FREE alternatives?

            getclicky is good, but you can only use 1 domain.
            I use statcounter and have been very happy with it. Oh - and I now love Bing for searching the Web. The results are far more relevant than Google.

            All my Amazon affilate sites were hit with the Google update. Who knows, though. There may be some bouncing around over the next week or two.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Anna_O View Post

              I use statcounter and have been very happy with it. Oh - and I now love Bing for searching the Web. The results are far more relevant than Google.
              I have to admit, over the last couple of weeks Google is simply not returning me relevant results for queries I type in far too regularly. Very ironic for a company that touts itself as trying to improve relevancy for their users.

              Not only have I found Bing far better recently but Yahoo as well.

              I appreciate what Google are trying to do but if they do this as they are with a detrimental effect to the actual user, they won't hold onto their share of the search market.
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              • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                Not only have I found Bing far better recently but Yahoo as well.
                No surprise about Yahoo, Rich. Not only has Yahoo incorporated Bing's algorithm for some time, not so long back they became one and the same thing. That is to say their results (save for PPC ads) are, or should be, identical.

                So basically we're now just optimising for two search-engines: Google and Yahoo/Bing.

                I agree with you though that Bing's relevancy is coming on leaps and bounds whereas there's a ton of collateral damage with Google's increasingly heavy-handed, ongoing algorithm updates, and sometimes what's left leaves a lot to be desired.

                I'd hate to make predictions as to what the future search landscape looks like in terms of market share, usability, etc., but it's certainly going to be very different.
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            • Profile picture of the author thailanddave
              Is this the return of ezinearticles? Pre-panda they ranked pretty high. Then they disappeared. They have reappeared in a couple of my niches on the first page. Two of my youtube videos that havent shown up for a couple years are showing up in #3 and #4 today for a keyword.

              I was in #3 for a keyword 2 weeks ago. Last week I fell to about page 3. I added 3 new articles on Sunday and Monday and I'm back to #3 tonite.

              It seems to be coming in waves but most of my positions are recovering after a rough weekend.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jit Lim
            Originally Posted by thedog View Post

            So, using analytics really has a negative effect?

            In that case, anyone know any good FREE alternatives?

            getclicky is good, but you can only use 1 domain.
            The two other free ones I've used is StatCounter and Piwik. I quite like Piwik as you own all the stats and logs and doesn't belong to someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
    Two old sites lost first page ranking. But 4 New MNS improved ranking. No idea bout new update. Everyday we have to change the plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author chubbsky
    Several of my affiliate sites also got hit. What is interesting though is I have this one affiliate site that has absolutely NO backlinks but is now on page 1. It has 5 pages only but with all unique content which I wrote myself. I just haven't gotten around to building backlinks to it. And now its on page 1. :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author greatestmj
    One of my sites took a hit. The 1st page/2nd page rankings moved to 8th/10th. But I don't have any message on webmaster tools from google, nor any other sites on the same IP has taken a hit. But yeah, I used only UAW to backlink the site, which explains why. But strangely, I've used just UAW on another site and that is still standing tall on rank 7th.

    Im wondering whats up..
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  • Profile picture of the author Legit SEO
    I wrote up cliffs about what everybody has been experienced and I've been reading about this all day. Everybody got hit it seems, I think google will make some changes or they are gonna have a lot of people pissed off at them.

    Read more about it April 24th - Google Rolls Out New Update Targetting Webspam | Legit SEO
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by brchap View Post


    I had used ALN on some of these in the past, but certainly not all of them. Nothing dark-hat... maybe a little grey...
    So you did use ALN? In fact you used other blog networks as well...No disrespect, what you call grey, Google might wee all over your sites for.

    I know you're finding it hard to understand but those blog network links are pretty significant. So significant that ALN and BMR have gone now.

    This should be a big clue.

    You also should have read the very helpful post by SuzanneH directly below your OP. This struck me when you mentioned grey hat...

    “White hat” search engine optimizers often improve the usability of a site"
    Blog networks like ALN didn't do this. I know as I tested them on a test site and had an article on dehumidifiers on a piece of barely readble spun nonsense (no disrespect to people who spin but this was a bad example) about guns.

    They also don't seem to mention "grey" hat. They go straight onto....

    The opposite of “white hat” SEO is something called “black hat webspam” (we say “webspam” to distinguish it from email spam). In the pursuit of higher rankings or traffic, a few sites use techniques that don’t benefit users, where the intent is to look for shortcuts or loopholes that would rank pages higher than they deserve to be to be ranked. We see all sorts of webspam techniques every day, from keyword stuffing to link schemes that attempt to propel sites higher in rankings.
    That seems pretty straight forward to me. Your grey is what they call blackhat webspam.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
    I have lost pretty much all my sites. I am moving entirely away from seo and concentrating on other areas to focus my businesses on. The moral of the story give up with seo and buying link packages if you still do that, this is not the way to run your business in the long run.
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      This is the first G update that has affected my best site. I monitor daily. I just removed G Analytics from it. I'll see if that has any effect.

      Strangely, I have an old Blogspot site in the same niche that is now appearing for a couple of the keywords.

      Do you think that is just coincidence? :rolleyes:

      I also have an unused domain name in the same niche. I might rewrite some of the content and activate the new site. It will be an interesting experiment.
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisWF
        All my 30 sites took a hard hit today.

        I use two different hosting providers, one in the US and one in Germany.
        The sites all have unique content and are monetized with Amazon, Adsense or clickbank.

        I have two sites that never ranked well, that I`ve got an email 3 weeks ago about unnatural link building.

        The only thing they all have in common is:

        They are all on my Google Analytics account.


        Damn G.
        Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
    I don't think anything is down to using Google Analytics or Webmaster Tools etc. I have both of these set up and some sites have suffered a small drop and others are fine.

    My big sites especially are standing firm.

    I used BMR for a bit but in general most of my sites just have good (IMHO) content on them and little in the way of links that I build.

    BTW is there such a thing as 'white hat' link building that we do ourselves ?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by ivatel42 View Post

      I don't think anything is down to using Google Analytics or Webmaster Tools etc. I have both of these set up and some sites have suffered a small drop and others are fine.
      I think it does.

      If it doesn't, why did so many with webmaster tools get the letter regarding un-natural link building when BMR was hit?

      How did they find this out?

      I'm not having a go at you but they can see exactly what you're doing and seeing as they consider link schemes as black hat webspam (see here), then having analytics may well have something to do with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jit Lim
        Just saw this post came in on Google Analytics

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rting-you.html
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      • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I think it does.

        If it doesn't, why did so many with webmaster tools get the letter regarding un-natural link building when BMR was hit?

        How did they find this out?

        I'm not having a go at you but they can see exactly what you're doing and seeing as they consider link schemes as black hat webspam (see here), then having analytics may well have something to do with it.
        Well as I said I used BMR and the Google tools. It isn't as black and white as you suggest in my opinion.

        I didn't get any warnings so if they somehow used the data in these tools they missed me

        Jon Leger has an interesting post addressing this Have you been penalized by Google? « Jonathan Leger - SEO And Internet Marketing Blog

        And at the end of the day nobody knows for sure. I suspect MANY factors are at play!

        On a plus point if the rubbish that is being served up at the moment continues then sites on pages 2, 3 and 4 might just get a LOT more traffic, as might BING and Yahoo !
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by ivatel42 View Post

          Well as I said I used BMR and the Google tools. It isn't as black and white as you suggest in my opinion.

          I didn't get any warnings so if they somehow used the data in these tools they missed me

          Jon Leger has an interesting post addressing this Have you been penalized by Google? « Jonathan Leger – SEO And Internet Marketing Blog

          And at the end of the day nobody knows for sure. I suspect MANY factors are at play!

          On a plus point if the rubbish that is being served up at the moment continues then sites on pages 2, 3 and 4 might just get a LOT more traffic, as might BING and Yahoo !
          Thanks for your response.

          Actually I didn't say anything was black and white, it never is with Google.

          I'm just pointing out that with analytics they can see everything you're doing.

          It's also worth noting that although you used BMR you also admitted you only "used BMR for a bit" and just because they missed you, so far, doesn't mean they don't use analytics and webmaster tools to see exactly what you're up to.

          I've also read the Jonathan Ledger post, I once tested out his three way link scheme. Did I just say link scheme? Wait, so a guy selling link schemes is saying they can't affect your ranks negatively? Perish the thought.

          I tell you what, Google "negative SEO" and see what comes up. Then go and look at this fascinating experiment on negative SEO. This isn't opinion, it's an actual experiment.

          You can read it here.

          Still, like you say, looking at the SERPS, it's a bit of a mess and yet another reason I have been building my business to be less and less reliant on a third party like Google.
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          • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Thanks for your response.

            Actually I didn't say anything was black and white, it never is with Google.

            I'm just pointing out that with analytics they can see everything you're doing.

            It's also worth noting that although you used BMR you also admitted you only "used BMR for a bit" and just because they missed you, so far, doesn't mean they don't use analytics and webmaster tools to see exactly what you're up to.

            I've also read the Jonathan Ledger post, I once tested out his three way link scheme. Did I just say link scheme? Wait, so a guy selling link schemes is saying they can't affect your ranks negatively? Perish the thought.

            I tell you what, Google "negative SEO" and see what comes up. Then go and look at this fascinating experiment on negative SEO. This isn't opinion, it's an actual experiment.

            You can read it here.

            Still, like you say, looking at the SERPS, it's a bit of a mess and yet another reason I have been building my business to be less and less reliant on a third party like Google.
            Now negative SEO is a different matter and when Google adjusts the algo ALL are sites are affected not just those with GWT or GA

            I think Rand Fishkin at SEOmoz issued a challenge to be taken down by negative SEO. Be interesting to see how he is fairing today
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by ivatel42 View Post

              Now negative SEO is a different matter and when Google adjusts the algo ALL are sites are affected not just those with GWT or GA

              I think Rand Fishkin at SEOmoz issued a challenge to be taken down by negative SEO. Be interesting to see how he is fairing today
              I agree.

              I think the whole negative SEO is ridiculous, if it is allowed to flourish I don't see how Google will keep people there searching, all the results would be pi**ed (Which they are now as well ).

              I'm not disagreeing with you and I agree no one really knows. I think it's very interesting to watch as well.

              One thing is funny though. Yesterday I read the Google founders were looking into a scheme to mine asteroids. Kind of a tall order looking at the way things are going in cyber space (no pun intended).
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              • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                I agree.

                I think the whole negative SEO is ridiculous, if it is allowed to flourish I don't see how Google will keep people there searching, all the results would be pi**ed (Which they are now as well ).

                I'm not disagreeing with you and I agree no one really knows. I think it's very interesting to watch as well.
                It is and I do think that there will be some readjusting going on in the indexes from today. There usually is

                Great time for staring to be NON reliant on Google if people haven't already.
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      • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I think it does.

        If it doesn't, why did so many with webmaster tools get the letter regarding un-natural link building when BMR was hit?

        How did they find this out?

        I'm not having a go at you but they can see exactly what you're doing and seeing as they consider link schemes as black hat webspam (see here), then having analytics may well have something to do with it.
        Whilst I accept that this did happen- I also believe that webmasters with 'un-natural' links (as defined by Google) who did not have WMT installed would have also been slapped- they just wouldn't have got the message explaining why.

        All of the data available to you in WMT is data that Google has access to anyway- the WMT interface is just a way for you to access it.

        I've just made another post talking about how Analytics data does not give Google any insight into your link building practices. Links that pass SEO benefit (so have been indexed by Google) are already on G's radar. By its nature, Analytics can only provide data about on site factors.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

          Whilst I accept that this did happen- I also believe that webmasters with 'un-natural' links (as defined by Google) who did not have WMT installed would have also been slapped- they just wouldn't have got the message explaining why.
          How do you know they don't see back links from analytics? How do you know what they can and can't see?

          I'm not criticising you, I don't know for sure myself but you seem to know so I want you to tell me, if you don't mind.

          They can make algorithms that can spot this but they don't use anything like that on Analytics or WMT?

          All of the data available to you in WMT is data that Google has access to anyway- the WMT interface is just a way for you to access it.
          Sure. I don't use it at all for any of my sites. How do you know exactly what Google can and can't see in analytics and even WMT? How do you know that what you see is exactly what they see?

          I've just made another post talking about how Analytics data does not give Google any insight into your link building practices.
          Yes, I read it. So, those people that got the message on WMT - how could Google tell them they had unnatural linking when you say they can't see this?

          Market Samurai, SEO Quake etc can all see what is linking back to you but Google analytics and WMT neither want, nor can, do this?

          Forgive me but I think you need to educate me a little bit further.

          That's good to know.
          What's good to know is that I don't focus on SEO and I use analytics but not Google analytics. I get the same information you do, I just don't share it with Google.
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          • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            How do you know they don't see back links from analytics? How do you know what they can and can't see?I'm not criticising you, I don't know for sure myself but you seem to know so I want you to tell me, if you don't mind.
            Because the script for analytics only tracks visitor activity on your site (and then only if JavaScript is enabled in their browser). This means that any data that G gleans about backlinks to your site must come from another source, not Analytics data.

            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Sure. I don't use it at all for any of my sites. How do you know exactly what Google can and can't see in analytics and even WMT? How do you know that what you see is exactly what they see?
            Admittedly, there's no way to 'know' that the information you see in Analytics is identical to what Google has access to. However, the information that you can access in Analytics (and some of WMT) is really the only data about your website that isn't publically accessible anyway. This could of course have implications if the SERPS are affected by on-site behaviour (as this would be the only way that G could track it), but otherwise has no affect on your SEO efforts.

            Everything else, your off-site links, any on-site changes that you have made, can be crawled, indexed and monitored by Google. The only way that backlinks have any SEO value is because they're in G's index in the first place- so of course they are aware of them. Nothing SEO related can be done 'in private', so it seems redundant to worry about your efforts being 'discovered' by using tools like this.

            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Yes, I read it. So, those people that got the message on WMT - how could Google tell them they had unnatural linking when you say they can't see this?

            Market Samurai, SEO Quake etc can all see what is linking back to you but Google analytics and WMT neither want, nor can, do this?

            Forgive me but I think you need to educate me a little bit further.
            I'm not entirely sure what you meant in the part I've bolded, but it's because Google can send messages through WMT regarding websites tracked with it. So, with WMT tools installed you know why your site has been slapped out of the rankings, without it you do not.

            As mentioned above, Google can see what is linking back to you- that data can be discovered by anyone with the capability to crawl websites. WMT does show you backlinks to your site, but at a far lower level than the tools you've mentioned- because IIRC they use Yahoo/Bing indexed backlinks. (I don't know, this is one point I'm not sure on)
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

              Because the script for analytics only tracks visitor activity on your site (and then only if JavaScript is enabled in their browser). This means that any data that G gleans about backlinks to your site must come from another source, not Analytics data.
              Thanks, I didn't know that and I'm glad you've explained it.

              Thank you for the rest of your post too, it made sense.

              I can understand how you and others wish to put your trust in Google analytics and WMT, just as I admire you trying to suss out an algorithm and rank your sites when the goal posts are moved so very frequently.

              This means that any data that G gleans about backlinks to your site must come from another source, not Analytics data.
              That was my point. They may not be able to see it through analytics or WMT but they can see it and my point was that it's quite possible that they marry all this data up, hence the unnatural linking letters.

              It's also fair to say they do something about it, seeing as they control the rankings.

              You have some very good points though, just not enough to make me abandon Piwik and use Google analytics though.
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              • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                That was my point. They may not be able to see it through analytics or WMT but they can see it and my point was that it's quite possible that they marry all this data up, hence the unnatural linking letters.

                It's also fair to say they do something about it, seeing as they control the rankings.
                Yes, they could marry up the data, but it wouldn't tell them anything about unnatural linking. WMT is only a small window into what Google already knows about you- installing that tells G nothing new.

                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                You have some very good points though, just not enough to make me abandon Piwik and use Google analytics though.
                That's fair enough, there are plenty of options out there- it all comes down to personal preference!

                My only beef is with people who don't give GA a fair shake of the stick because of paranoia about Google learning more about their site. Anything you do to boost your rankings in Google, G HAS to know about already- else it wouldn't work! (I know I've said this before, I just want to catch any skim readers )

                In all honesty though, I'm a firm advocate in never relying on Google for anything. I think this whole update business has driven home the important lesson that, as with most every business on the planet, diversity is key.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

                  Yes, they could marry up the data, but it wouldn't tell them anything about unnatural linking. WMT is only a small window into what Google already knows about you- installing that tells G nothing new.
                  Ok, WMT can't see that, I appreciate that now but they can see it via other means.

                  My only beef is with people who don't give GA a fair shake of the stick because of paranoia about Google learning more about their site. Anything you do to boost your rankings in Google, G HAS to know about already- else it wouldn't work! (I know I've said this before, I just want to catch any skim readers )
                  Yes I agree. You've had some very good points.

                  In all honesty though, I'm a firm advocate in never relying on Google for anything. I think this whole update business has driven home the important lessen that, as with most every business on the planet, diversity is key.
                  This ^^^^

                  I build my business on methods I have more control over. I do get Google traffic but it isn't something I rely on and certainly not something I aim for.

                  Today and everytime they move the goal posts, I'm very grateful that I don't as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
          Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

          Whilst I accept that this did happen- I also believe that webmasters with 'un-natural' links (as defined by Google) who did not have WMT installed would have also been slapped- they just wouldn't have got the message explaining why.

          All of the data available to you in WMT is data that Google has access to anyway- the WMT interface is just a way for you to access it.

          I've just made another post talking about how Analytics data does not give Google any insight into your link building practices. Links that pass SEO benefit (so have been indexed by Google) are already on G's radar. By its nature, Analytics can only provide data about on site factors.
          In complete agreement with you.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        I think it does.

        If it doesn't, why did so many with webmaster tools get the letter regarding un-natural link building when BMR was hit?

        How did they find this out?
        They can see exactly who is linking to you whether you are using GWT and GA or not. That has nothing to do with it. If you were using GWT, it just gave Google the opportunity to notify you.

        The only thing I would recommend as far as GWT and GA go is to not use the same account for all of your sites. If Google decides they do not like something you are doing, it is very easy for them to tie all your sites together if they are all under one GWT or GA account.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          They can see exactly who is linking to you whether you are using GWT and GA or not. That has nothing to do with it. If you were using GWT, it just gave Google the opportunity to notify
          Yup.

          I know. See post 82.

          That was cleared up 2 hours before you decided to tell me what I was already told.

          I hadn't forgotten in that short space of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    Interesting that most of the sites that have taken over one of my main keywords are:
    a) old fashioned ( as in FrontPage old fashioned)
    b) all contain Google Adsense. Mine doesn't

    My suspicious mind says this has been done for Google's benefit. Show out of date, boring sites with Adsense. People will click on the ads to escape a useless site.

    Result - more money for Google. Times are obviously tough at Google Towers
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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      Interesting that most of the sites that have taken over one of my main keywords are:
      a) old fashioned ( as in FrontPage old fashioned)
      b) all contain Google Adsense. Mine doesn't

      My suspicious mind says this has been done for Google's benefit. Show out of date, boring sites with Adsense. People will click on the ads to escape a useless site.

      Result - more money for Google. Times are obviously tough at Google Towers
      First place for my main site and keyword is a new arrival.

      Pretty thin site, loaded with adsense..... 4 blocks... I was sure the limit was 3?

      Maybe it's time to buy shares in Bing?
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        I haven't noticed anything as of yet. I had one of my bigger earners which was ranked #1 for said keyword drop to #3, and now it's on page 2 at the bottom, but I haven't worked on that site for a while.

        I don't worry about it too much, because during the process of getting good rankings, you should be creating sources of traffic to your site...

        Referrals can be just as powerful as organic traffic.
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        • Profile picture of the author DoubleOhDave
          My first site was de-indexed weeks ago. It was at #4 on page 1 for a keyword phrase. It was/is a site that I used to run experiments with from time to time. At one point I started using WP Robot with the Amazon module... I pretty much let it run 4 times a day and there are hundreds of automatic posts... I also have an RSS feed for free stuff from Amazon. So among other things I wasn't too surprised that I was deindexed... I just thought "fair enough, I've been pushing my luck with what I can get away with".. After reading this I just checked and the site has been reindexed and one of the pages is showing on page 4 of G.

          The site still stays at #1 on Yahoo and #2 on Bing for the same keywords (as they were before).

          (If only I could figure out how to flippin monetise the piece of junk! :rolleyes
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        • Profile picture of the author shanekel
          I also got hit on around three of my sites today,

          More keyword related backlinks are the answer and not unrelated spammy links.

          Usually these Google changes settle down over the coming weeks as they 'fine tune' the algorithm.

          Fingers crossed guys
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Blandford
          If you want to see just how bad the Google search results are messed up right now, do a search for any of the following keywords...

          viagra
          make money online
          python hosting
          something

          Talk about high quality, relevant results at the top of the search engines....*hope you can sense the sarcasm cause I'm laying it on pretty thick*

          There will DEFINITELY be changes coming in the next few days or Google is going to lose a huge user base in my opinion. For now we wait...
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        • Profile picture of the author stanleylyndon
          Our case is similar to the OP's here. We have three sites, all on a single IP. And instead of the same analytics account, we have tied them all up with a single google webmasters account. And instead of ALN, we have been using UAW for the past three months. Guess google has now sniffed out the UAW network as well!
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        • Profile picture of the author alcymart
          Same thing here... Major Nosedive for all my sites!

          Ben
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      Interesting that most of the sites that have taken over one of my main keywords are:
      a) old fashioned ( as in FrontPage old fashioned)
      b) all contain Google Adsense. Mine doesn't

      My suspicious mind says this has been done for Google's benefit. Show out of date, boring sites with Adsense. People will click on the ads to escape a useless site.

      Result - more money for Google.
      I'm no software engineer, but that sounds even more difficult to write an algorithm for than one that shows good results.
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  • Profile picture of the author davidsutton
    My best sites lost rankings and my site with least content and backlinks moved up.
    Bizarre results using Google. Check out make money online in Google UK. Currently #6 on page 1 is an empty wordpress site with no articles.
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    • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
      Originally Posted by davidsutton View Post

      My best sites lost rankings and my site with least content and backlinks moved up.
      Bizarre results using Google. Check out make money online in Google UK. Currently #6 on page 1 is an empty wordpress site with no articles.
      Check it out on google.com #1 isan empty blogspot for MMO!
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        Originally Posted by ivatel42 View Post

        Check it out on google.com #1 isan empty blogspot for MMO!
        I don't think most people understand this. I'm in the U.S. - I visited the UK version of Google and did not get that same search result.

        Here in the U.S. -- I can see my results doing quite well for myself, and I drive down to my GF's house an hour south, look up the same things and get completely different results.

        Here at home I can even test search results with different browsers and get completely different results...

        Google takes a lot into account.
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    • Profile picture of the author chaplin35
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author ivatel42
        Originally Posted by chaplin35 View Post

        Number 4 now using my Chrome
        It's being hammered with backlinks today Just shows what backlinks can do, when you think how competitive those KW's are and that it's a blank page!

        It won't last they have messed things up but it will iron out over the next day or two IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    You guys need to work on getting other sources of traffic.

    And so do I! I'm starting a mailing list, and I'm building a membership site to take on the existing sites in my niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
      I haven't seen any major changes to my sites - I've had a few pages drop rank, but luckily not entire sites.

      Yahoo Answers seems to be cropping up quite alot now. I've seen it take the no.1 spot for some fairly competitive terms.

      Also one page free sites like Webs.com and Blinkweb.com that aren't even keyword optimized are outranking sites with quality content.
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    • Profile picture of the author thedog
      I just checked again... and the number 1 spot on Goolge, for my main niche, and keyword, has 5 Adsense blocks!

      With 300 words of content.... most of which isn't even related to the keyword.

      Keyword appears 3 times... and not in title, or <h> tags....

      WTF?
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  • Profile picture of the author eman1
    I have heard this same thing from a number of other internet marketing friends. Two of the best ways to improve your website ranking are to post unique articles and to build more natural, high quality backlinks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
    Just thought I'd add my 10cents worth, My sites have been hit as well, none of them had google analytics of any description on them. All had 1,000 word + all seo on page optimized, unique content so they certainly weren't spammy sites.

    I have previously used ALN but have a diverse range of other links pointing to my sites.
    I imagine [and am hoping] this is a temporary reindexing by google, because not only are they hitting us affiliate marketers, anybody searching on google at the moment will recieve very poor search results.
    For instance checking one of the keywords I was ranking 3rd position for, the top ten now consists of Amazon holding the top 4 positions, then 4 you tube & daily motion videos [some very spammy], a forum page and a spammy affilate site that has no backlinks. eleventh position is held by a facebook page!
    All my competitors have tanked in the ratings as well, which is one consolation!
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  • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
    This has nothing to do with Google analytics or WMT. I use both on all my sites.

    My ONLY site that got hit today is the one that I've been building backlinks for on blog networks and wiki pages using spun content over the last six months. And I haven't even been all that aggressive with it.

    This site tanked for virtually EVERY keyword I've been tracking.

    BTW -- Never used ALN or any of the big networks. Used a couple private blog networks and Backlinks Kingdom. And hired out some wiki backlinks and social media links.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by JPRoss View Post

      This has nothing to do with Google analytics or WMT. I use both on all my sites.

      My ONLY site that got hit today is the one that I've been building backlinks for on blog networks and wiki pages using spun content over the last six months. And I haven't even been all that aggressive with it.

      This site tanked for virtually EVERY keyword I've been tracking.

      BTW -- Never used ALN or any of the big networks. Used a couple private blog networks and Backlinks Kingdom. And hired out some wiki backlinks and social media links.
      Ok I give up. Google don't actually use your analytics data, they didn't send out the warning letters and they just do everything for your benefit as a marketer.

      Google said this yesterday..

      The opposite of “white hat” SEO is something called “black hat webspam” (we say “webspam” to distinguish it from email spam). In the pursuit of higher rankings or traffic, a few sites use techniques that don’t benefit users, where the intent is to look for shortcuts or loopholes that would rank pages higher than they deserve to be to be ranked. We see all sorts of webspam techniques every day, from keyword stuffing to link schemes that attempt to propel sites higher in rankings.
      I don't get this...

      My ONLY site that got hit today is the one that I've been building backlinks for on blog networks and wiki pages using spun content over the last six months
      So you have analytics and the only site that got hit was the one where you used link schemes.

      ...and you don't think Google used your analytics data to see what you're up to?

      Fair enough.
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      • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        So you have analytics and the only site that got hit was the one where you used link schemes.

        ...and you don't think Google used your analytics data to see what you're up to?

        Fair enough.
        Google doesn't show you anything in WMT that they don't already know about you. So it makes no sense to come to the conclusion that they use WMT against you. Matter of fact, they know much more than they show in WMT.

        As for analytics, I have good stats. Time on site. Bounce. Etc. Just what do you think they learn about me in analytics that they would then turn around and use against me to tank my rankings? That's just silly paranoid speak.

        Look, I made my own bed. I knew that with link building comes risk. It is my opinion, take it for what it's worth, that google is passing significant negative juice from what remains of known blog networks, spun content, and spammy links. They've said as much. And I think the results of what has tanked verifies this. (At least in concerning my handful of sites.)

        What I think is most unfortunate is that if they continue to pass negative juice, then negative seo is going to become the hottest tool in the spammers toolkit. If you can't get your site to #1, just tank everybody in front of you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by JPRoss View Post

          Google doesn't show you anything in WMT that they don't already know about you. So it makes no sense to come to the conclusion that they use WMT against you. Matter of fact, they know much more than they show in WMT.
          I'm sure they do know more than they show you.

          I'm not coming to any conclusions at all. I'm just discussing the possibility that seeing as Google decide where you are ranked, seeing as they make up the rules and seeing as people like you give them total access to their sites, maybe just maybe there is a link there.

          Either way you look at it, analytics/WMT or not, Google is moving your sites around.

          It's good that people think they can't see whose linking back to you in WMT but they sure as hell can see it from somewhere.

          Anyway, I'm no WMT or analytics expert, as I've said I don't and wouldn't use them on my sites, not when I can use Piwik which is exactly the same, minus Google.

          Im not disagreeing with you or Midlands Marketer, I just want you to show me how WMT sent the unnatural link messages to people when according to you, they don't have nor would use that information. I know people without get slapped as well.
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          • Profile picture of the author JPRoss
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Im not disagreeing with you or Midlands Marketer, I just want you to show me how WMT sent the unnatural link messages to people when according to you, they don't have nor would use that information. I know people without get slapped as well.
            Hey Richard. I enjoy the civil discussion.

            Somewhere we're not connecting on the information. So one last quick stab and I'll move on.

            Google indexes sites and catalogs backlinks for the entire web. They have this information whether you sign up for WMT or not.

            If you sign up for WMT, they show you a fairly significant portion of these backlinks. But not all.

            Google identified sites with unnatural links from their point of view. Those with WMT got a letter. Those who do not use WMT obviously could NOT get a letter from google. I'm sure there were thousands of sites that WOULD have gotten letters if they were utilizing WMT.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by JPRoss View Post

              Hey Richard. I enjoy the civil discussion.
              I completely agree. Please don't think I'm trying to be rude or stump you both, you both seem to know more about it than me anyway.

              Somewhere we're not connecting on the information. So one last quick stab and I'll move on.

              Google identified sites with unnatural links from their point of view. Those with WMT got a letter. Those who do not use WMT obviously could NOT get a letter from google. I'm sure there were thousands of sites that WOULD have gotten letters if they were utilizing WMT.
              Yes, I understand. I also understand that having WMT or analytics was not "the reason" sites got slapped.

              My point is that having WMT and analytics gives them more information on your site than say for example, my sites on Piwik. I may be wrong too .

              I'm sure there were thousands of sites that WOULD have gotten letters if they were utilizing WMT.
              I agree, I think where we're getting our wires crossed is that I also think, in an ideal world, Google would have preferred it if those thousands without WMT that didn't get a letter, did in fact have WMT, along with all internet marketers, so they could see exactly what people are up to.

              Anyway, I appreciate you both taking the time to educate the tecnically useless person that I am .
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  • Profile picture of the author EvcRo
    Don't worry about google rankings, start tracking bing rankings

    With the latest changes google results quality is at a all time low, in a few months, maybe around 6, bing will be no1 search engine

    Some people already reporting more traffic from bing than they ever got from google.

    google is done, their greed for adwords is what caused their end. remember this in 6 months when bing search share will > google search share
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  • Profile picture of the author byronc
    I have a web design site. dropped from 2nd on first page to 4th page - wthell !!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Originally Posted by ivatel42 View Post

      Check it out on google.com #1 isan empty blogspot for MMO!
      Originally Posted by thedog View Post

      I just checked again... and the number 1 spot on Goolge, for my main niche, and keyword, has 5 Adsense blocks!
      Like I said. Times are hard at Google Towers.

      I've just added a block of Adsense to my site that was hit and changed it to a blog style. It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference. For some keywords it is now being outranked by an old and unloved blogspot site of mine in the same niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author martyJames
    I have lots of sites - some tanked today some didnt. None use google analytics. The sites that did tank had BMR/ALN - the sites that didnt tank are new sites that i have used (hope google isnt reading this!) private blog networks primarily . I dont think analytics has anything to do with it - any badly spun articles used in linkbuilding where the anchor text does NOT read correctly is the problem i think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Yet another shake up.

    Just concentrate on adding quality content on a regular basis and not using any "one click" solutions to top 10 Google rankings and you should be fine.

    At least this has always worked for me.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ashishthakkar
    This is just temporary i believe.

    "In the next few days, we’re launching an important algorithm change targeted at webspam."

    Let it settle down


    Regards,
    Ashish Thakkar
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by ashishthakkar View Post

      This is just temporary i believe.

      "In the next few days, we're launching an important algorithm change targeted at webspam."

      Let it settle down


      Regards,
      Ashish Thakkar

      Cutts has already confirmed that it has been rolled out already.
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    Expect it if your using black hat method before the update of Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheBizHelp
    Banned
    I hope my sites don't fall into this ****!
    The did has been done... the next question you should be asking is: How do I amend it? Although It will cost you some cash but it can be fixed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Henri Lind
    The only cure for this is to wait and see what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author greatestmj
    One of the worst changes happened today lol
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    Google won't last. They think they are god, I don't think so. If I'm going down then I'm taking them with me!
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  • Profile picture of the author HorseStall
    I haven't noticed any changes yet - hopefully that is a good sign. It appears that perhaps sites that use blogger may have been hit.
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  • Profile picture of the author gruulletje
    Same here, I live in the netherlands and 14 of my 19 has dropped in rank. And the strange thing is: newer websites took my place!
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  • Profile picture of the author EvcRo
    A glimmer of hope as those are temporary results from a bigger serp shuffle, atm google search results are bad beyond imagination, there is no way this are finished algo change implementation.

    If the results stays like this than is bye bye google, welcome bing and the future facebook search.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zibblu
    If Google is really penalizing sites for getting "bad links" then what's to stop people from going to fiverr and buying up "bad links" for all of their competitors? Chaos.
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    • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
      Originally Posted by Zibblu View Post

      If Google is really penalizing sites for getting "bad links" then what's to stop people from going to fiverr and buying up "bad links" for all of their competitors? Chaos.
      Google isn't directly penalising sites whose backlinking portfolios are made up of these links. They're trying to penalise the kinds of sites that house the spun or otherwise gibberish content bearing these links, and the consequential degradation of outgoing link value is what causes the rankings of reliant sites to drop.

      So people doing what you mention - spamming rubbish backlinks pointing to competitors' sites - wouldn't really be damaging their competition, they'd just be wasting their money on what'd essentially amount to a pointless, ineffective smear campaign.

      To damage one's competition, one would have to spam on their site or report them for some clear violation of policy that Google can reasonably trace and pin on them as their own doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author brchap
      Originally Posted by Zibblu View Post

      If Google is really penalizing sites for getting "bad links" then what's to stop people from going to fiverr and buying up "bad links" for all of their competitors? Chaos.
      This was my thought exactly. If you can now "link bomb" the competition with bad links, there will be no end to the chaos one can cause. Penalties for bad links makes no sense at all. It makes more sense that the bad links simply wouldn't count for anything.

      But, there is obviously some connection between all of my sites that Google deems as noteworthy. As I said before, a few of my sites were ranking well on the content and the age of the site. This wasn't junk content, mind you... this was very useful content, with every article on the site being 1000+ words in length. So, these sites shouldn't have been caught in Google latest dragnet, but they were.
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      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
        Originally Posted by brchap View Post

        But, there is obviously some connection between all of my sites that Google deems as noteworthy. As I said before, a few of my sites were ranking well on the content and the age of the site. This wasn't junk content, mind you... this was very useful content, with every article on the site being 1000+ words in length. So, these sites shouldn't have been caught in Google latest dragnet, but they were.
        As others have said (at least in other threads if not here), you really have to wait it out before you can see what's what.

        Every time one of these updates is unleashed, although there is always some permanent collateral damage, many sites just go through a period of temporary upheaval.

        In this context, trying to find method in the madness right now is like assessing quake damage before the shaking has stopped.

        I'm not saying everything will return to what it was before, as it never does, but you might regain some rankings on these stricken sites.

        One of my little old sites has been smacked about with every single one of these recent Panda updates, but each time without fail, sometimes more quickly than others, it has risen from the ashes.
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  • Profile picture of the author brchap
    @ Richard

    What I call "Grey Hat" could be different from how others define it. Any attempt to manipulate the SERPs to favor your site for certain keywords or phrases is what I call "Grey Hat."

    Which means, lots of people do this.

    In fact anyone who has submitted an article with a link, in the form of anchor text (instead of the URL), back to their site... is trying to manipulate the search engine results... and is, therefore, not "white hat."
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  • Profile picture of the author indianhub
    one of the my best site lost his all ranking. 20 keywords are showing on page 1 and 2 before change algo. but this i lost all the position.
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    • Profile picture of the author brchap
      Although I started this thread, I'm not really freaking out or anything. Like I said, niche sites aren't my only form of income.

      Just before this all happened, I was thinking to myself how difficult it was to properly maintain so many sites (adding regular content, replying to comments, etc). I was considering just selling (or simply dropping) most of these site to focus on a select few.

      I refuse to "react" to Google's nonsense. I would advise everyone else to do the same. Maybe it's all the crime dramas I used to watch, but it seems like doing anything rash at this point would be interpreted as an admission of guilt. I'm just going to let the dust settle, maybe add a little bit of fresh content and see where the chips fall.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Blandford
    Hmm...looks like they may have taken care of the "make money online" issue...don't see the no content blogspot blog at the top anymore...
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjay207
    just because Google being penalized (over-optimization) last Tuesday.
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    • Profile picture of the author mbmehmet
      Yeh thats weird. They have fixed that "make money online" term. WTF how about they come and manually fix my **** up too. Bunch of UAAUIUASOHAUHASIUHASHUHAISHIU ASSHOLES
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    • Profile picture of the author Morphius
      We are currently working on over 700 keywords. Only 5 went little down and the rest saw major improvement.
      We only do manual SEO work. Traditional old school SEO. To be honest, it is expensive, but for the long run it pays off.
      I have resisted for long time using software and after this update, I know I was right.
      I am not trying to rub in, or to brag about out success, I just think that people on this forum should start pay attention to "real" SEO and not rely on software. Stop buying these products and promises about 1000 high PR links. All it is is one BS.
      If you focus on Google's guidelines SEO, these updates won't hurt you, or your clients.
      The people that sell you packages for SEO, have no clue about SEO, they are after your dream/money.
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      • Profile picture of the author alistair
        Originally Posted by Morphius View Post

        The people that sell you packages for SEO, have no clue about SEO, they are after your dream/money.
        Does that include you?
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      • Originally Posted by Morphius View Post

        We are currently working on over 700 keywords. Only 5 went little down and the rest saw major improvement.
        We only do manual SEO work. Traditional old school SEO. To be honest, it is expensive, but for the long run it pays off.
        I have resisted for long time using software and after this update, I know I was right.
        I am not trying to rub in, or to brag about out success, I just think that people on this forum should start pay attention to "real" SEO and not rely on software. Stop buying these products and promises about 1000 high PR links. All it is is one BS.
        If you focus on Google's guidelines SEO, these updates won't hurt you, or your clients.
        The people that sell you packages for SEO, have no clue about SEO, they are after your dream/money.
        I also don't use any type of software and do all of my SEO manually. Seems like SO many want everything to be "automated" but is that really smart with some things? Not sure it is with SEO. Not to mention all the folks who want to ping or bookmark their backlinks so they get "indexed". What a great way to let Google know you're doing your own backlinks. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author IM nice guy
    Anyone relying on Google for their income is pretty much insane...

    I've been there, but damn, you have to wake up from that dream!
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  • Profile picture of the author Shounak Gupte
    FUNNY STORY: all my sites with real content got penalized... and the sites with amazon auto shops gained ranking! so much for quality content! :p
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    • Originally Posted by Shounak Gupte View Post

      FUNNY STORY: all my sites with real content got penalized... and the sites with amazon auto shops gained ranking! so much for quality content! :p
      Exactly. This is most likely just a wide-spread Google Dance. One of my rankings moved down and one stayed put in spot #1. Both had very similar links.
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    • Profile picture of the author ALearner
      Originally Posted by Shounak Gupte View Post

      FUNNY STORY: all my sites with real content got penalized... and the sites with amazon auto shops gained ranking! so much for quality content! :p
      This is EXACTLY what happened to my sites!

      Long story short, just keep waiting for a few days. Hopefully something better will come out :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Zibblu
      Originally Posted by Shounak Gupte View Post

      FUNNY STORY: all my sites with real content got penalized... and the sites with amazon auto shops gained ranking! so much for quality content! :p
      This has pretty much been my experience. My sites that were hit hardest are my most "real" sites with loads of unique original content (written by me on subjects I am knowledgeable about.)

      On the other hand my "thinner" sites that exist only to promote affiliate programs are mostly doing fine...
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  • Profile picture of the author Methow
    For the first time a lot of my sites have been hit. But there is so much screwing going on with Google since yesterday, I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes out.
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  • Profile picture of the author clean99
    Didn't get hit hard, but few of my sites went from position 1 to 4 or 5. And top positions are now taken by big authority sites.
    I never used blog networks. My backlinks were all form different sources: blog comments, socail bookmarking, profile links, forum links, article links and others

    Is it the end to small niche sites?
    I certainly hope not
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarNegron
    I think it's way to early for any of us to panic because things tend so shuffle right after an algo shift, BUT this does show why non of us should be at the mercy of G.

    It does make sense because they can take out your business with the flip of a switch.

    -Omar
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Blandford
    So if you're not already going WTF to this update, here's something that might make you think...

    I was searching various phrases just for fun to see some search results and happened to type in "heartburn remedies".

    Everything looked halfway decent until I got down to result #9 which was heartburnremediesrelief.org/

    I click on the link and lo and behold this is a small snippet of what I find...

    "Anyone who is suffering from hemorrhoids gets upset easily as it comes with many other problems. Hemorrhoids today are quite common and treatment is also easy like gathering knowledge about the best hair straightener. Good that today there are lots of solutions available to the above problem."

    First of all, the site isn't even about heartburn. It has all kinds of crap on it and as you can see the article I'm pulling the snippet from is about hemorrhoids, not heartburn.

    Second, the words "best hair straightner" was a link, thrown right in the middle of a totally unrelated article. All kinds of these links on the website.

    Third, (and what's most frustrating about the whole thing) is the fact that this is exactly like the example Matt Cutts showed in his blog update that this webspam update was supposed to target and get rid of...yet there it is...sitting on the first page of Google happy as can be while all of our good quality sites get tanked....

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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Blandford
    Oh and #10 is great too..."Tumblr Staff"....really? What the heck does that have to do with heartburn?!?!
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  • Profile picture of the author shane ny
    what would be the difference if you manually create 10 profile links or if you use a tool to create 10 profile links. Im not being sarcastic, im just really wondering how it knows? I mean if you do it manually you still using the same IP address for all that you create manually.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I think the talk about "same IP" and "Google Analytics" is pure speculation.

    I do not see one single logical reason why google would slap sites based on because they have the same IP (which is common on shared hosting)..even more because they'd be using GA.

    Before you make such abstruse statements i'd like to see proof.
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    • Profile picture of the author brchap
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      I think the talk about "same IP" and "Google Analytics" is pure speculation.

      I do not see one single logical reason why google would slap sites based on because they have the same IP (which is common on shared hosting)..even more because they'd be using GA.

      Before you make such abstruse statements i'd like to see proof.
      I suppose I would need to know your definition of "proof" vs. "speculation"

      Here are the facts: All of my sites were penalized. About 20% of these sites had no backlinks and ranked well on keyword research, great content and the age of the domain. Most of my articles were optimized at less than 1% keyword density (and did quite well with that). All of them were on the same IP. All of them were in the same Google Analytics account.

      Speculation? Yes, maybe.

      But, honestly, I don't care to debate with you.

      It's a moot point. What's done is done. Google can piss off. The few other niche sites that I had in the works are going to be launched on a different host (different IP) and I'll be using a different stat counter (not GA), too.

      If my old sites recover, fine. If they don't, that's fine too. I'll make my online money some other way... because what I lack in luck, I make up for with perseverance. There are literally countless ways to make a living on the Internet today... I'll just pick a different way (preferably one that doesn't rely on a search engine) and start over.
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  • Profile picture of the author PromoDirect
    Yes, the ranking has been dropped, many of my friends has been complaining about it. They believe that it has to do with the Google algorithm update.
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  • Profile picture of the author marksmit
    A lot of things are happening in the last week from Google. Hope this is for good but not all good things happened. Here are the question you should ask
    Google: Ask Yourself These 23 Questions if Panda Impacted Your Website - Search Engine Watch (#SEW)
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  • Profile picture of the author gruulletje
    Hi

    I wonder what to do now with the sites that have dropped in rank?
    I guess wait it out for a few days, but if nothing changes, what to do next?
    How should I (and many others with the same problem) get those hitted sites back up in the rankings? Buying linkpackages? Do seo manually?

    I have really no idea at this moment, anyone knows?

    By the way: I have the programm senuke-x, but i'm a bit affraid to use it right now. ;-)

    Thanks
    Sander
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnieR
    I'm also seeing some major negative movement, even on a 4-year-old site with over 50 pages of rich content, on a site with an average visit of around 3 minutes, and bounce rates in the 50 percent range.

    The unnatural link threat cannot remain the dominating factor in how they rank sites. If so, someone will just go link-bomb CNN with about 500,000 links from bad neighborhoods. Then Sue's News will be number one.

    And considering that they cannot personally evaluate the worth and power of millions of sites, to a large extent links must remain a major player in the evaluation process.

    My advice to the people running in circles on here? Go fish, go to the beach, or whatever it is you do for recreation and relaxation when you're not on here. It's a nice time of the year for that (at least here in the southern US).

    If you insist on continuing working, focus on building out quality content instead of building out your promotional campaigns.

    In a few days/weeks, a new direction will be more clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Theeban
    It seems Google pointed out your "Grey SEO methods" -
    To overcome, better go for more links and avoid "over anchor text optimisig"
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  • Profile picture of the author Ravisharma
    u r lunch the new site then u work more and more work on the site so google is after some time is google index is all page some time putting on sand box when google is site ia penalized
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  • What I've been seeing is that the real "Authority" sites are given top rankings. I actually don't think this whole update has much to do with backlinks at all. With Panda, Google aimed at quality. With this recent update, it appears that it's aiming at "quality on steroids", meaning that sites like Amazon and Wikipedia and IMDB ("household name" type sites) are getting the preference from Google. In smaller markets, aged, well-developed sites are at the top. I suspect this is still the outcome of Google aiming at "relevance" and "quality".
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    • Profile picture of the author Austin E Anthony
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      What I've been seeing is that the real "Authority" sites are given top rankings. I actually don't think this whole update has much to do with backlinks at all. With Panda, Google aimed at quality. With this recent update, it appears that it's aiming at "quality on steroids", meaning that sites like Amazon and Wikipedia and IMDB ("household name" type sites) are getting the preference from Google. In smaller markets, aged, well-developed sites are at the top. I suspect this is still the outcome of Google aiming at "relevance" and "quality".
      I think you are absolutely right Angela. I have been looking through websites that now occupy first page for most niches that got wiped out and the first page is dominated by "Authority" sites like WebMD, Wikipedia, Amazon and Authority forums that has a thread discussion on the niche.

      This tells me that soon it will be very hard for the average Joe doing internet marketing to get organic traffic from Google. How the hell do you compete with Authority sites that has been in existence for more than a decade! peak times!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author cooler1
        Originally Posted by young-Money View Post

        I think you are absolutely right Angela. I have been looking through websites that now occupy first page for most niches that got wiped out and the first page is dominated by "Authority" sites like WebMD, Wikipedia, Amazon and Authority forums that has a thread discussion on the niche.

        This tells me that soon it will be very hard for the average Joe doing internet marketing to get organic traffic from Google. How the hell do you compete with Authority sites that has been in existence for more than a decade! peak times!!!
        Im not so sure. The crowd of people who saw no negative affects of Penguin, they seem to be using a very diverse linking profile and a diverse anchor text variation. So Google isn't automatically taking out the 'average joe' because they aren't a huge authority.


        The reason those big sites have faired so well is probably because they have huge authority with a high PR and thousands and thousands of BLs so Penguin was never going to touch them.
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        • Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

          Im not so sure. The crowd of people who saw no negative affects of Penguin, they seem to be using a very diverse linking profile and a diverse anchor text variation. So Google isn't automatically taking out the 'average joe' because they aren't a huge authority.


          The reason those big sites have faired so well is probably because they have huge authority with a high PR and thousands and thousands of BLs so Penguin was never going to touch them.
          I have two sites that I got to the top of Google and have been in either the #1 or #2 spot for three years. They did NOT move with Panda. With this newest update, ONE of the sites moved down a few spots on Page One, but the other one remained in the number ONE spot. They both had IDENTICAL link building techniques. I know. I did the backlinks myself. One was my own site. That one moved a few spots on Page One of Google. It's still on Page One out of 417,000,000 other sites. The other was my Doctor's website, an aged "Authority" type website with pages and pages of information for patients and those looking for pertinent information. My Doctor's website REMAINED in the #1 spot after this "Penguin" update. That and other things I've seen lead me to believe that it's not the link building that made the decision this time around but the quality of the website itself. The more "Authority" the site is, the higher the ranking is.
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          • Profile picture of the author dmtaylor247
            Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

            ONE of the sites moved down a few spots on Page One, but the other one remained in the number ONE spot.
            Would be nice to know your anchor text ratio for this website?. Although alot has been said about this I know you use heavy one sided anchors but all your links have zero page authority but loads of domain authority, also you have a good mix of nofollow links..

            Another think to mention, I know one of your keywords is a name "Angela" would it really make sense for Google to filter out these types of keywords to improve accuracy? I think so, for example genuine blog comments for people who interact socially and contribute, that are simply leaving a name for reference and not manipulating pagerank.

            I think the update did target certain types of linkbuilding more than others and aggressive on page seo was likely the key to knocking these sites off, they all have a similar unnatural build both off page and on page.

            Google know high pagerank links work (actual page) and that's why they pounded BMR and ALN and most likely targeted anyone else who manipulates pagerank as it's a clear sign they are manipulating their algo.
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  • Profile picture of the author LaverdureShow
    In my opinion if you top your backlinks campaign you are telling google .. I'm scare and I was using some technics to improve my search engine result and if you continue this will look more natural ..
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  • Profile picture of the author jhonybravo222
    I am still enjoying almost same rankings. Actually i do not believe in shortcuts and do quality and unique work and never try to over optimize my site and follow the webmaster tools.
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  • Profile picture of the author MLD1985
    So I honestly don't get these updates too much. Maybe because there are so many articles about them. One says to not backlink with non-relevant backlinks to your site I.E: Something out of your niche. Then I read articles saying to go for high pr gov/edu links. If you get links from them, are you not gonna get penalised for rubbish backlinking? I honestly don't know how to go about link building now, and got a few sites/videos I wanna play with but am worried. Any thoughts?

    It looks like Angela thinks it's more of the quality of the site, but I wonder if that's from the niche? Head is spinning from all this.

    Matt D.
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    • Profile picture of the author robftprod
      I have a lot of sites. Over 150
      I have about 30 hit by Penguin. about 10 that have risen, and the rest no change.
      I waited a week, and then I've taken a few days to see what the 30 Penguin slapped sites have in common.
      Here's my conclusion
      Nothing

      Some are all original content, some were just second tier spun articles
      Different ways of backlinking. Some legitimate backlinks, some outsourced stuff
      Some wordpress blogs, others html sites

      I took a great deal of time look at backlinking profiles. Some were overoptimized for money keywords, but most weren't
      2 of my slapped sites have very little backlinking and great content (about 40 pages)
      3 were EMD's, the rest not

      My final conclusion
      I'm not sure, but I don't think the rankings have settled yet.
      I've read a lot of ideas and suggestions, but nothing I've read yet would pertain to every one of my sites that have been hit.

      Patience is really hard when it affects your bottom line, but I'm not doing anything major until I find someone who got hit hard and then did a few things and got their rankings back.
      I've heard a lot of speculation, but no actual proven tactics yet

      Just my 2 cents
      Rob
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  • Just like I thought, Google is favoring "Authority Sites". They think of these sites as "brands" and this is what they have to say about it:
    "Brands are the solution, not the problem," Mr. Schmidt said. "Brands are how you sort out the cesspool."
    Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt said this. If you think Google isn't continuing that same path now, test three or four dozen "money keywords" and see what type of sites are at the top. It will almost invariably be Authority Sites. I suspect Google didn't just "fall into" the current changes. I suspect this was a long-term planned path.
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  • Profile picture of the author owlfowl
    Is that a joke? How it could be, I almost have more than 70 sites on my server, all are linked to my Analytics, I dont know what will happen to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author onlinetraffic
    around 10% of total website are affected by this update.
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  • Profile picture of the author thedog
    I've always targeted high volume keywords for my sites, and I've dropped seriouslly for these.

    I think I'm going to go after the low hanging keywords I'm ranking in the top 100 for, that I never even targeted.

    If I start to target these long tail keywords, I'll start to rank for them, and, dilute my anchor text profile... deffintly over optimized my main keywords.... back when I was a newbe, I went a bit fiverr backlink trigger happy.

    This, as well as cpc... that's my plan anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author dmtaylor247
      Originally Posted by thedog View Post

      I've always targeted high volume keywords for my sites, and I've dropped seriouslly for these.

      I think I'm going to go after the low hanging keywords I'm ranking in the top 100 for, that I never even targeted.

      If I start to target these long tail keywords, I'll start to rank for them, and, dilute my anchor text profile... deffintly over optimized my main keywords.... back when I was a newbe, I went a bit fiverr backlink trigger happy.

      This, as well as cpc... that's my plan anyway.
      This is my plan too, I went after difficult terms in the mobile and entertainment niches that got millions of exact searches. I think it's obvious the harder niche you are in the more likely you will be affected as you need to push the sites aggressively.

      Keywords that have 2/10 million "competing pages" are a piece of cake for me, in fact I'm going to go alot lower now and rank the high cpc keywords with low competition and a decent amount of traffic..

      It's a pain really, I enjoyed building some of my sites that were affected and never really went after high cpc because most of the topics just didn't interest me, I don't care now...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chronic IM
    Hello!

    The solution should be, put more interesting topics and upgrade your sites. If you put interesting topics that you think everyone might be interested on, and if you upgrade your homepage more, your site would easily recover it's old position. You should do lots of site upgrades than wonder why they all drop rank.

    Best of Luck.
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    • Originally Posted by Chronic IM View Post

      Hello!

      The solution should be, put more interesting topics and upgrade your sites. If you put interesting topics that you think everyone might be interested on, and if you upgrade your homepage more, your site would easily recover it's old position. You should do lots of site upgrades than wonder why they all drop rank.

      Best of Luck.
      I agree. It's weird; it seems like regardless of what Google tells the public about the changes, so many seem to think these changes are ALL about what kind of backlinks the sites have and how they got them. I'm not seeing this at all. My Doctor's website, the one I was able to get from the bottom of Page 6 to Position One, Page One overnight is still in that Number One spot, three years later. I haven't touched it since I got it ranked three full years ago. It remained through Panda and Penguin. Another project of mine (that was mentioned on this thread) moved down a few spots from its number two spot but is still on Page One out of more than 400 million results. My doctor's website has relevant, GREAT information on a whole series of pages. It's an "Authority Site" for this area. My site has age and backlinks but I am not very techie so it's not going to be seen as an "Authority". These two things have exactly the same kind of backlinks. Exactly the same. And one stayed in Position One, Page One and the other moved. I think Google has a point here in that it is looking at quality more closely now than it ever has. Apparently, many seem to think it's all about backlinks. :confused::confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author dmtaylor247
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        Apparently, many seem to think it's all about backlinks. :confused::confused:
        Not backlinks Angela, pagerank that's want it's all about. Put it all together and you get a link characteristic that's very easy to spot. Pagerank + link velocity + anchor text + onpage

        Your website is missing 3 of those characteristics, your personal site ranks for a name which, doesn't count in my opinion and the doctor's site may not be an authority but it is almost certainly branded with citations from directories and quality sources that shows it's a real life entity.
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        • Originally Posted by dmtaylor247 View Post

          Not backlinks Angela, pagerank that's want it's all about. Put it all together and you get a link characteristic that's very easy to spot. Pagerank + link velocity + anchor text + onpage

          Your website is missing 3 of those characteristics, your personal site ranks for a name which, doesn't count in my opinion and the doctor's site may not be an authority but it is almost certainly branded with citations from directories and quality sources that shows it's a real life entity.
          Not sure what you mean by my "website is missing 3 of those characteristics" as I have plenty of "link velocity" and "anchor text" and my page rank is higher than my Doctor's page rank. So no, it's not all about Page Rank. His site and mine used the same links, so he didn't get higher page rank links than I did or vice versa.
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          • Profile picture of the author dmtaylor247
            Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

            Not sure what you mean by my "website is missing 3 of those characteristics" as I have plenty of "link velocity" and "anchor text" and my page rank is higher than my Doctor's page rank. So no, it's not all about Page Rank. His site and mine used the same links, so he didn't get higher page rank links than I did or vice versa.

            Look neither of your sites were affected I'm not saying what is keeping them there I'm saying quite the opposite. Regarding pagerank, not your site, I'm takling about the links and where they are. Both the sites have the same PR0 profile links, agreed, that have no onpage PR. "Link velocity" more than 50 per day? is what I call over optimization.

            The links you build have good domain authority and link diversity and are generally quite good links.

            What I'm saying is it's better and easier for Google to go after a particular build of website, your sites aren't this typical bad profile and build.

            They simply round up 1000 sites they don't like and they all have something in common;

            High Pagerank Backlinks + Link Velocity + Anchor Text + Onpage and probably quite a few more characteristics. So they engineer the filter and add all this stuff and block loads of other stuff like *names* that might cause issues.

            Just saying it is backlinks or anchor text or pagerank or whatever the hell Google penguin is? it's not as simple as that, it's a combination of things but one of the main problems Google has faced for years is pagerank manipulation and it looks like they are clamping down on this harder, especially on page actually PR6/7/8 style of backlinks.

            How many pr5 links have you got? I've got about 2000 and my site has puffed into thin air... I think I understand Penguin very well..
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            • Originally Posted by dmtaylor247 View Post

              What I'm saying is it's better and easier for Google to go after a particular build of website, your sites aren't this typical bad profile and build.

              They simply round up 1000 sites they don't like and they all have something in common;
              Okay, I see what you're saying. I think it's the same idea as the "Build My Rank" thing. Authority (ie, "big brands") websites don't use this sort of technique and they most likely don't have the same build of website that Google went after. If Google sees the lower quality websites as a "cesspool" then it makes sense it would look for common denominators that would point out these type of websites and conversely, the type of sites that DON'T have these characteristics.
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              • Profile picture of the author dmtaylor247
                Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

                Okay, I see what you're saying. I think it's the same idea as the "Build My Rank" thing. Authority (ie, "big brands") websites don't use this sort of technique and they most likely don't have the same build of website that Google went after. If Google sees the lower quality websites as a "cesspool" then it makes sense it would look for common denominators that would point out these type of websites and conversely, the type of sites that DON'T have these characteristics.

                I have to admit I'm probably one of the worst blackhat spammers out there, I gamed Google big time and Matts Cutts did an excellent job of stopping me, I give him credit for that. Now I'm not even going to bother link building anymore, he won... game over.

                but for all the people out there that don't understand how Google put's these algos toghether then there can only be more trouble to come, because the more they work at it, the more they will fine tune their algo and collect other profiles that they don't like and mash them into layered filters that just kill spam..

                Then they will improve collabrative filtering (Google +) and the days of seo will come to an end, the people will decide what they want to see, not link builders...
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  • Profile picture of the author alphadude
    A question to Angela V Edwards: Was this Doctor website backlinked with forum profiles (i.e. Angela and Paul links)?
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    • Profile picture of the author stanleylyndon
      Originally Posted by alphadude View Post

      A question to Angela V Edwards: Was this Doctor website backlinked with forum profiles (i.e. Angela and Paul links)?
      My guess is no. Right Angela?
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      • Originally Posted by stanleylyndon View Post

        My guess is no. Right Angela?
        Yes, absolutely it was. That's what I keep on saying. I used the SAME LINKS (not just the same KIND of links but the SAME LINKS) that I used for my other projects; my links and some of Paul's. Why would you think the answer is no, stanleylyndon??
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  • Profile picture of the author Watch Store
    Angela,

    are you saying you believe it is still safe to use your profile backlinks directly to money sites because that does not seem to be the consensus after Penguin and Panda ?
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    • Originally Posted by Watch Store View Post

      Angela,

      are you saying you believe it is still safe to use your profile backlinks directly to money sites because that does not seem to be the consensus after Penguin and Panda ?
      Yes, I think it's perfectly safe. Like I said, my doctor's website hasn't EVER moved and mine is still on Page One out of more than 400 MILLION other websites, even after Panda and Penguin. I don't understand why so many website owners believe that these changes are all about backlinks and backlink techniques. I suspect they actually ARE more about website quality than backlinks, like Google has been saying. The reason why some of the backlink techniques...things like Blog Networks and such...have been frowned upon recently by Google is most likely because the webmasters who use those types of techniques do not have the "Authority/Brand" type websites. Think about it. Do you see companies like Wal Mart, Goodyear Tire, Dell Computers, or McDonald's using things like Build My Rank?? Of course not. (I did have the owner of a major SEO company tell me that my backlinks are the same type they use for their own SEO clients.) "Small potatoes" webmasters are the ones that use those kinds of backlinks; these are the types of sites that former Google CEO Eric Schmidt inferred were "The Cesspool". However, I still think these changes are less about backlinks and more about "branding", "Authority", and "quality".
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      • Profile picture of the author smkiran
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        Yes, I think it's perfectly safe. Like I said, my doctor's website hasn't EVER moved and mine is still on Page One out of more than 400 MILLION other websites, even after Panda and Penguin. I don't understand why so many website owners believe that these changes are all about backlinks and backlink techniques. I suspect they actually ARE more about website quality than backlinks, like Google has been saying. The reason why some of the backlink techniques...things like Blog Networks and such...have been frowned upon recently by Google is most likely because the webmasters who use those types of techniques do not have the "Authority/Brand" type websites. Think about it. Do you see companies like Wal Mart, Goodyear Tire, Dell Computers, or McDonald's using things like Build My Rank?? Of course not. (I did have the owner of a major SEO company tell me that my backlinks are the same type they use for their own SEO clients.) "Small potatoes" webmasters are the ones that use those kinds of backlinks; these are the types of sites that former Google CEO Eric Schmidt inferred were "The Cesspool". However, I still think these changes are less about backlinks and more about "branding", "Authority", and "quality".
        So what you say about anchor text? should we vary the anchor text after panda and penguin?
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        • Originally Posted by smkiran View Post

          So what you say about anchor text? should we vary the anchor text after panda and penguin?

          I don't vary my anchor text. Ever. There are always some sites that only allow a link and on blogs where I'm commenting, I don't use my keywords as my name (this practice has been targeted for penalization by Google), so there is always a "natural variance" of types of links and anchor text, so this is not something I worry about.
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  • Profile picture of the author ragespark
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Originally Posted by ragespark View Post

      I have no idea why your website would get penalized? I assume you broke their TOS?
      I don't think my own website was penalized. It moved a couple spots and bigger name "Authority Sites" took top ranking. But I don't believe I was "penalized". Maybe you were talking to the OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaushikworld
    something went wrong that's why your site get penalized
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  • Profile picture of the author Watch Store
    i had a couple of websites where i used your and Pauls links plus AMR and i received an unnatural links penalty, i do not know if it was only AMr or also the profile links. I think i will test a new website and see what happens.
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    • Profile picture of the author Watch Store
      Originally Posted by Watch Store View Post

      i had a couple of websites where i used your and Pauls links plus AMR and i received an unnatural links penalty, i do not know if it was only AMr or also the profile links. I think i will test a new website and see what happens.
      Angela- any thoughts on above ?

      Have you also heard from any other of your backlink clients, to see if they have lost google rankings ?
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      • Originally Posted by Watch Store View Post

        Angela- any thoughts on above ?

        Have you also heard from any other of your backlink clients, to see if they have lost google rankings ?
        I don't know what AMR is but I've used my own links and some of Paul's and have never been penalized. Ever. When people tell me they don't have rankings or they've lost rankings, I always like to take a look at about 20 of their actual backlinks, to see exactly what they're doing. Some folks wonder why they're not ranking and they're doing things like not using their keywords or using a different anchor text for just about every link or what have you. No wonder they don't have any results!!
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  • Profile picture of the author alphadude
    Can someone point out a site that is on the first page based primarily on Anglela and Paul type of forum backlinks?
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    • Originally Posted by alphadude View Post

      Can someone point out a site that is on the first page based primarily on Anglela and Paul type of forum backlinks?
      I'm on Page One out of more than 400 million for Angela and my doctor (Montesano Physical Therapy | Home) is Number One for Grays Harbor Physical Therapy. Grays Harbor is our county and it's small. He beat out the Physical Therapist that is actually named Grays Harbor Physical Therapy. I've been saying that through this whole thread and yes, I used my links for these things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by alphadude View Post

      Can someone point out a site that is on the first page based primarily on Anglela and Paul type of forum backlinks?
      alpha As a relative old timer I can tell you Angela two years back used to rank for this serp. It was the number one serp people looked at for backlinks.

      https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&e...w=1280&bih=600

      Those kinds of links have been incapable of ranking anymore in that serp for at least a year and a half and the site is nowhere to be found. Those are the facts.
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  • Profile picture of the author smkiran
    Are you saying profile backlinks still Effective? Are you still running the service?
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    • Originally Posted by smkiran View Post

      Are you saying profile backlinks still Effective? Are you still running the service?
      Yes, they are still effective and yes, I'm still running the service.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

        Yes, they are still effective and yes, I'm still running the service.
        NO they are not effective but yes she is running her service. Honestly Angela. Its time to adapt and change. telling people that spamming profile links direct to their money site "is perfectly safe" even now with nearly a million people getting unnatural link notices is sorry - just irresponsible.

        Seriously I used to sell a link package like two years ago and I had to do a double check on the dates of your posts. I couldn't believe you are saying that In May 2012.
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